View Full Version : Quality speaker posts
Just read a review in HiFI world on Furutech speaker posts . The reviewer was astounded by the jump in sound quality.
Always thought that good quality wires will be held back by cheap alloy/brass binding posts.
I wonder how many tweakers on AOS have changed speaker inputs on their equipment?
brian2957
31-01-2012, 23:00
I have changed binding posts in several pairs of speakers and they have had a positive effect every time ( in my opinion ) . The posts have not been the quality of the Furutech ones but I will certainly be having a look at them. Well worth the effort.
Brian.
What were the replacement posts made from copper, Brian.
realysm42
31-01-2012, 23:24
I've used Brian in my speakers, it made an instant difference!
brian2957
31-01-2012, 23:27
They were gold plated copper I believe . Available in Maplins or on Ebay. I replaced the binding posts on pair of Royd A7s just the other day , but I also refurbished the crossovers so difficult to say what difference the replacements made . But I have also replaced the posts on a set of JPW speakers and a pair of Mordaunt Short speakers and got marked improvements with both ( IMO )by doing so . The Furutechs look a bit rich for me TBH but I have no doubt that they would make a big difference.
Brian.
Got to stop drinking:doh:
brian2957
31-01-2012, 23:30
Don't stop drinking to please other people mate. ;) I see Mains Cables R Us stock the range of Furutech binding posts .
Brian.
I might have to stop if i keep eyeing up Furutech gear.
brian2957
31-01-2012, 23:50
:lol: I stopped drinking years ago mate and still can't afford them . Must be doing something wrong ;) . I'm just happy plodding along and making small improvements where I can , with the help of the guys on this forum much of the time . Mark (Reid Malenfant ) was a big help recently . If I'm overtaken by the insanity of this hobby ( upgradeitis I think they call it , but the wife has another name for it ), any time soon , and buy these binding posts I'll pass on my findings . I would be grateful if you could do the same (when you stop drinking of course :eyebrows:)
Brian.
Will do, and yes i have a big respect for Mark and his knowledge. Top man.
They were gold plated copper I believe .
Much more likely to be plated brass.
Rare Bird
01-02-2012, 00:18
I use non descript Copper base, Silver then Rhodium plate jobbies.. Reason being they match the chrome fitting in our living room even though you can't see the back of the speakers :D
I read it too and have used their binding posts and RCA sockets all over my system, the differences are immediate but of course don't take my word for it, Tony Bolton does know what he is talking about though (the guy who reviewed them).
http://www.furutech.com/items/FT-809-300.jpg
Just about to re-cap my (new to me) Rogers JR149's where the speaker cable connects directly to the crossover without intervening binding posts so in theory should be best possible termination.
Steve
brian2957
01-02-2012, 10:36
Much more likely to be plated brass.
You're probably right . I'm not an expert on these things .
Brian.
hifi_dave
01-02-2012, 13:45
Just about to re-cap my (new to me) Rogers JR149's where the speaker cable connects directly to the crossover without intervening binding posts so in theory should be best possible termination.
Steve
Yes.
Rare Bird
01-02-2012, 14:14
Be careful to check the new cap diameters if your going for flashy Polyprops as theres not much headroom in the metal can at the bottom of the speaker that houses the X-Over.
Be careful to check the new cap diameters if your going for flasy Polyprops as theres not much headroom in the metal can at the bottom of the speaker that houses the X-Over.
Nope - using Alcaps which are same size as OEM (or so I am told ;) )
Steve
Ali Tait
01-02-2012, 14:54
I recently redid my Pre 2 with new sockets and wire -
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/703/imag0232bo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/imag0232bo.jpg/)
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/8804/imag0231kv.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/imag0231kv.jpg/)
Made a worthwhile difference, though how much was down to the new wire I can't say.
It's quite hard to find any connectors that aren't machined from lumps of brass.
Where did you get yours from Andre?
I would prefer lightweight plated copper but they tend not to be as robust as brass.
I used to have WBT connectors on my speakers but since the rebuild and moving the crossover out of the cabinet I've soldered my speaker cables directly to the crossover board.
One less connector to worry about.
realysm42
01-02-2012, 17:45
Mark's a diamond.
Mark Grant
01-02-2012, 18:38
Much more likely to be plated brass.
Not sure which model was in the magazine as not seen it yet.
This link to the furutech website says this model is plated copper.
http://www.furutech.com/a2008/product2.asp?prodNo=392
• Main conductor: α (Alpha) Pure Copper conductor Rhodium or 24k Gold plated
WBT also make some good quality copper binding posts:
http://wbt.de/index.php?id=71
-
Yes.
True, but I guess it depends on how often you move or change your speakers and/or cable ;)
Brass?? Never! I use lovely Cardas solid-copper binding posts:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4412/ccbpsl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/ccbpsl.jpg/)
These are available from Hi-Fi Collective, and are superb quality, without being stupidly expensive.
Marco.
Mark Grant
01-02-2012, 18:54
So that's what is on the back of that Copper Amp :)
Oh yes, I could hardly use anything else, could I? :eyebrows:
They're also on the back of the Tannoys! And I use the matching solid-copper spade connectors at both ends of my VDH speaker cable:
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/2417/cardasccmsc1500.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/864/cardasccmsc1500.gif/)
I prefer spades to banana plugs, as you can get a much tighter connection, by slipping them through the Cardas binding posts and nipping the two up together nice and securely with spanner :)
All these 'little things' combine to make a worthwhile sonic difference!
Marco.
The Cardas ones are solid copper, a few others may be - the ones that Maplins sell (which are the ones I was referring to) are gold plated brass (or not plated at all).
Exactamondo, but Maplins isn't the first place I'd recommend for high-quality audio accessories. Their stuff is ok, I guess. Somewhere like Hi-Fi Collective is much better! :)
Marco.
True, but I guess it depends on how often you move or change your speakers and/or cable ;)
Marco.
What, you don't have dedicated cables for each speaker :lol:
Joking apart even without binding posts there are choices to be made and compromises to be put up with. For example, on these JR149's I'm keen to keep them as original as possible so I'll probably keep the OEM speaker cable and spade connectors and solder/heat shrink my Chord speaker cables to the terminal 6 inches or so.
Steve
This thread pushed my button and I am looking at two options.
They are both priced closely and I can't decide so I would like some feedback from AOS members.
Which one would you pick?
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/propeller-post-binding-posts/propeller-post-35mm-tc-binding-post-pair/
The long ones.
http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/bindingpost/cardas_ccgg.htm
Please vote your choice.
Perhaps if you plan to use spades or bare wire the propeller ones -the Cardas for bananas. The Cardas say they have no intermediate plating layer between the gold plating and the copper - the propeller ones make no such claim, and as an intermediate layer is usually used, one must presume this is the case in this situation.
Perhaps if you plan to use spades or bare wire the propeller ones -the Cardas for bananas. The Cardas say they have no intermediate plating layer between the gold plating and the copper - the propeller ones may no such claim, and as an intermediate layer is usually used, one must presume this is the case in this situation.
I will be using Banana plugs.
I did just notice the cardas posts are unmarked + and - and I will not be able to use the mounting block, the posts will be mounted directly through holes pre spaced directly through the 3/4 inch MDF body.So in choosing the Cardas I would have to mark the posts with paint or something.
For example, on these JR149's I'm keen to keep them as original as possible so I'll probably keep the OEM speaker cable and spade connectors and solder/heat shrink my Chord speaker cables
Steve
Life just got simpler. I read that Jim Rogers didn't hold with esoteric speaker cables so I am going to use some QED 79 strand lookalike from Maplins - just picked up two 4 meter runs for 99p - will use the OEM spades to connect to crossover (all new caps). Just putting finishing touches to French polish on the end caps and awaiting new foams. Will post piccies when project complete.
Steve
Hi Jeff,
Can you not get hold of the Cardas ones without the gold plating? Try here:
http://www.thecablepro.com/cardas-copper-5-way-binding-post-cablepro.html
The gold plating is really unnecessary, and only adds another layer of material for the signal to negotiate. Also, as copper is a better conductor than gold, the plating is adversely affecting the integrity of the signal.
As for them not being marked, all you need to do is mark the negative ends on both with a black marker pen, so you know that's where the negative connections go, and the positives go on the unmarked ends - simples! :cool:
I can say from experience that the Cardas binding posts really are superb.
Marco.
Marco,Won't the copper just get green and lose signal?
Copper left untreated really oxidizes.
Ulike silver that is a better conductor as it oxidizes and turns black,copper becomes less conductive as it oxidizes and turns green.
http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/bindingpost/cardas_ccbp.htm
Hi Jeff,
Anthony TD has been using those copper Cardas binding posts on his amps for years (since 1997, I believe), and none of them so far has oxidised!
I think there's a lacquer put on them or they've been treated in some way to stop oxidisation. In fact, my whole amp (as it's made from a solid copper chassis) would've turned green by now, if what you presumed were true ;)
Worry not, my friend, and buy the non-plated ones!
Marco.
Hi Jeff,
Anthony TD has been using those copper Cardas binding posts on his amps for years (since 1997, I believe), and none of them so far has oxidised!
I think there's a lacquer put on them or they've been treated in some way to stop oxidisation. In fact, my whole amp (as it's made from a solid copper chassis) would've turned green by now, if what you presumed were true ;)
Worry not, my friend, and buy the non-plated ones!
Marco.
RightO!
Rare Bird
06-02-2012, 10:08
I've never liked using bare metal posts, i'm not saying they are a bad thing but it plays with my head! i dislike using bare silver plate aswell & don't like Gold..I have an attraction for the bright shiney look of Chrome plating so opt for Rhodium hardware all the time..It makes me happy & i think they look very high quality & clean.
I've never liked using bare metal posts, i'm not saying they are a bad thing but it plays with my head! i dislike using bare silver plate aswell & don't like Gold..I have an attraction for the bright shiney look of Chrome plating so opt for Rhodium hardware all the time..It makes me happy & i think they look very high quality & clean.
Those do look nice,Welcome back Andre, Glad your back.:cool:
Moving on from quality speaker posts, don't neglect the quality of the RCA sockets you use either!
After much experimenting, the two best sounding types I've found are Furutech FP-901:
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/9453/fp901.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/fp901.jpg/)
Exploded view:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2706/fp901parts.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/fp901parts.jpg/)
These are low-mass and use a positive/hot centre pin milled from a single piece of pure copper (with phosphor bronze locking ring), and the ground/return conductor is milled from a single piece of pure copper, all constructed from non-magnetic 24k gold-plated materials.
I use the rhodium-plated versions on my Copper amp, and they are superb!
The other ones which I find sound superb are the Eichmann Phono Pods:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7936/phonopod400.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/phonopod400.jpg/)
The PhonoPods use a full 20-micron direct-gold plating over pure copper. One of the most intriguing parts of the design is that it is a true 75 ohm connection, which means it's perfect for digital SPDIF inputs and outputs.
I use these on my Croft preamp, and on the coaxial digital RCA sockets between my Sony CDP and DAC, to excellent sonic effect.
Just a few suggestions, folks, if you fancy upgrading the supplied sockets on commercial amps, as chances are they'll be nothing special! ;)
Marco.
What do you guys think of these?
After communication I found they are made in china for a major manufacture.
The shorter posts made for amps these are for speakers. They are gold plated copper most likely forged then machined but probably not cut from a billit. I did not go with the Cardas as I want to use a aluminum binding post plate and the Cardas are to big and they come with washers not bushings like the ones from china.
I ordered these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150628174286?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_3776wt_1110
I have these coming too, my goal is to have them engraved with the speaker make and model. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?PartNumber=091-602
The cost is not bad and the parts should all fit and it's far better than the cheap brass gold plated posts through the wood cabinet.
If you look closely at the attached picture the upper bushing is stepped it is not just a washer.
I also like that they are protected from shorting and dust by the polly plastic cover.
Hey Marco,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150630835372#ht_2800wt_1110
Hi Jeff,
Not sure about those - they don't particularly fill me with confidence...
Marco.
Hi Jeff,
Not sure about those - they don't particularly fill me with confidence...
Marco.
Well a small needle file at the solder point will soon reveal if they are copper or brass.
Was this your concern Marco?
At under $20.00 I'll take a gamble.
Hi Jeff,
Not sure about those - they don't particularly fill me with confidence...
Marco.
Indeed, me neither.
You guys wouldn't risk $18.99 to find out?
Personally, no (if I really wanted them to be copper).
I recently etched some anodised aluminium with a laser cutter and it worked very well.
Personally, no (if I really wanted them to be copper).
I recently etched some anodised aluminium with a laser cutter and it worked very well.
It isn't hard to tell if it is hardened copper or brass, just a swipe or two with a needle file over the solder terminal and if it's yellow it's brass.If it looks like stripped Rom ex or a 1960's u.s. penny it's copper.
If it's not copper I can still use them as binding posts on my sons 80 watt Lionel train transformer. But if they are copper they will fit the binding plate holes with out any extra drilling and that would be just peachy They also come with bushings instead of washers so win win if it actually is copper.
And if they are as advertised at that price AOS members enjoy!
I will report more when they come.
Yes, I entirely accept it is easy to check, and if you have a use for some brass binding post nothing is lost (if I were in your shoes I would buy some - but personally, I don't have a secondary use for binding posts, so wouldn't buy them).
Wow,
Can you believe this.
Here they are in the U.S. and the very first review says they are copper.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=091-630
Same company I got the plates from,no wonder they perfectly.
Where does it say that they're made of solid copper, though, Jeff?
Marco.
Where does it say that they're made of solid copper, though, Jeff?
Marco.
The very first review.
Also in the description from ebay I purchased them from. I am going to call parts express and ask as Daton Audio is there brand.
Matt at Parts Express is getting me the exact product details from the manufacture in China.
Yep, look like good value.
Ammonite Audio
19-02-2012, 11:52
I had to replace a knackered binding post on the back of my Lyngdorf amp, and went with a new set of WBT Next Gens, mainly since they are available with the same push-on spade connector as the originals. The reason for replacement was not sound quality, but I have to say that the WBTs do improve the sound over the unbranded but quite chunky looking originals. If I had to do the same job again, I'd look at the Furutechs, but only if they are cheaper than WBT.
Well, here is the plates, still waiting on the posts.
I used cork to make a tight seal and eliminate ringing from the aluminium.
The engraving cost me some beer,I can assure you!
Hi Jeff,
Can you not get hold of the Cardas ones without the gold plating? Try here:
http://www.thecablepro.com/cardas-copper-5-way-binding-post-cablepro.html
The gold plating is really unnecessary, and only adds another layer of material for the signal to negotiate. Also, as copper is a better conductor than gold, the plating is adversely affecting the integrity of the signal.
As for them not being marked, all you need to do is mark the negative ends on both with a black marker pen, so you know that's where the negative connections go, and the positives go on the unmarked ends - simples! :cool:
I can say from experience that the Cardas binding posts really are superb.
Marco.
Marco,
In the end I went with these from Cardas, I just ordered them.
After talking with one of the techs at Cardas they said the non plated copper binding posts need to be cleaned regularly to sound there best (high maintenance) depending on humidity every 3 to 6 months should do it.
As they do surface oxidize he suggested using pro gold to clean them,I like Deoxit.
He said these where some of the best sounding and his personal favorites so I ordered them .
http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&pagestring2=Binding%20Posts&pagestring=Binding%20Posts+(closeup)&content_id=11&part_id=80
I also ordered these because the spacing is different so I cant use there block.
http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&pagestring2=Insulators&pagestring=Insulators+(closeup)&content_id=14&part_id=63
Noted, Jeff! Although humidity is not something we suffer from much in North Wales! ;)
Marco.
Noted, Jeff! Although humidity is not something we suffer from much in North Wales! ;)
Marco.
It wouldn't hurt to give them a nice cleaning once in a while anyway.
They are the only binding post to use copper nuts as well as posts.
If you want a real education on binding posts call Sonic Craft and ask for Jeff G.
He has A/Bed all of them and tests/ listens to everything he sells and some things he won't sell.
http://www.soniccraft.com/index.htm
Give a call, use an international calling card and it will be cheap.
The guy is truly a wealth of knowledge .
It wouldn't hurt to give them a nice cleaning once in a while anyway.
I do anyway, mate. I always do that as part of my annual 'system service', where plugs and connections are cleaned throughout :cool:
Marco.
realysm42
24-02-2012, 02:21
I do anyway, mate. I always do that as part of my annual 'system service', where plugs and connections are cleaned throughout :cool:
Marco.
Do you notice an improvement/change atall from this?
Do you notice an improvement/change atall from this?
I'm not speaking for Marco but just making an educated guess that by preforming maintenance regularly there should be little to no change.
The change would come eventually from not doing it.
It would be much like not checking tube bias at least twice a year in a non self biasing amp, when things start to wander from spec or degrade regular cleaning and inspection will catch it before it degrades.
Mark Grant
24-02-2012, 08:41
They are the only binding post to use copper nuts as well as posts.
If you want a real education on binding posts call Sonic Craft and ask for Jeff G.
He has A/Bed all of them and tests/ listens to everything he sells and some things he won't sell.
For example did you know all WBT are brass,high quality brass but not copper.
http://www.soniccraft.com/index.htm
Give a call, use an international calling card and it will be cheap.
The guy is truly a wealth of knowledge .
Who told you that Jeff :scratch:
Have a read here about WBT 0705 Cu
http://wbt.de/index.php?id=71&backPID=71&tt_products=156
and here about WBT 0710 Cu
http://wbt.de/index.php?id=71&backPID=71&tt_products=33
Both listed as pure copper and I doubt WBT would make any false claims.
No chance - their ass would be sued, bigtime!! :exactly:
Marco.
Do you notice an improvement/change atall from this?
Yes, always! Quite simply because the removal of any build up of contaminants on all contacts and connections (and after 12 months, there are always some) results in an easier path for the audio signal to negotiate, in turn resulting in a clearer, more open sound.
Remaking all connections and polishing pins on mains plugs (if they are not plated in some way to prevent oxidisation), including the end caps of internal fuses (or replacing the whole fuse with a new one - and that also applies to case fuses inside equipment, as over time, with equipment being switched on and off, internal filaments get stressed and become more brittle, thus adversely affecting the performance of the partnering equipment), and tightening up wires inside mains plugs, always pays sonic dividends, as does cleaning the laser lens cover on CDPs, and the pins on any valves (tubes) used.
I spend a whole day doing this (and more) every 12 months, and it keeps my system on song and sounding its absolute best. System maintenance like this should therefore be considered as mandatory by anyone who is serious about getting the most from their gear and looking after it properly.
Marco.
I stand corrected, I think the person who told me that must have been referring posts in that price range,I may have miss understood.
I'll try to edit my post.
Who told you that Jeff :scratch:
Have a read here about WBT 0705 Cu
http://wbt.de/index.php?id=71&backPID=71&tt_products=156
and here about WBT 0710 Cu
http://wbt.de/index.php?id=71&backPID=71&tt_products=33
Both listed as pure copper and I doubt WBT would make any false claims.
I may have misunderstood,I stand corrected.
WoW! WBT makes a lot of different modles ! 68% copper alloy? http://www.wbtusa.com/pages/0702_11s.html OK, this one is pure. http://www.wbtusa.com/pages/0705cu.html for those with unlimited cash. http://www.wbtusa.com/pages/0705cu.html
http://www.wbtusa.com/pages/binding_posts.html
I was told I need a solder gun around 200 watts to heat the Cardas binding post fast enough to solder to it with out melting the washers.
Is that true,has anyone done this?
Hi Jeff,
(Got your PM) The answer is, I dunno, as Anthony TD fitted mine. Next time we chat, though, I'll ask him what he used :)
Marco.
Thanks, Marco I hope a 100w will do it.
Well here it is,
Cardas binding posts.
One thing I did is order the red and black insulators from Cardas and because the rear nuts are most likely brass I double wrapped the posts in teflon tape before threading them on so the plastic insulators and the rear nuts do not contact the posts.I used a continuity tester and the rear nuts are totally out of the path.
After ordering the plates and having them engraved I had to compleatly reshape the holes and enlarge them with my Dremal.
I had to be so careful not to scratch anything. The original brass mostly zinc posts with steel nuts where just screwed into the MDF so I used a 2 1/2 inch hole saw to make a nice round hole behind the plate, it is sealed by a 1/16 cork gasket.
There is a sonic difference, slight but better detail.
stupinder
29-02-2012, 16:13
I changed mine the other day. The speakers had those horrible spring connectors on them so i had to use quite thin wire. Played the hifi for the first time since changing the posts and it all sounded bloody lovely. Dunno if it was in my head or of the previous spring loaded things were wholly unsuitable. Anyway glad i changed them!
Covenant
29-02-2012, 16:51
Stu,
Feel free to post some of those great stories about life in France you put on the 'wam. You should write a book.
stupinder
29-02-2012, 18:02
Stu,
Feel free to post some of those great stories about life in France you put on the 'wam. You should write a book.
Thanks Covenant. It has crossed my mind (the book) and I do write a blog about my life as a vegetarian here in france (sort of), though it's taken a bit of a back seat of late due to doing sites for a few folk in exchange for hifi and trying to get the Hifi pig site off the ground. It's (The book) up on Amazon e books as The English "Vegetarian in France " There Will be Shouting"" by Stuart Smith -think its 99 cents or pence or something cheap as chips.
Mods if this ranting on about stuff i do is out of order then please do remove it. Ta
There you go http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shouting-English-Vegetarian-France-ebook/dp/B005QCY2A6
Stu
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