Percentage to spend on each item ?

[MikeMusic]

What would be the percentages to spend on a record deck / arm / cartridge ?

As a starter how about 50% for the deck, 30% for the arm and 20% for the cartridge ?

I'm aware that is not the full picture with upgraded platters, PSUs etc.

Please feel free to educate me
:)

[kininigin]

I guess alot depends on your budget,buying from new or second hand,Direct drive or belt drive with a view to upgrade or a fully fledged deck with no plans to upgrade.

Do you have a record collection,or are you starting from scratch? This would be my first starting point imo.

[hifi_dave]

Mike,
Don't worry about how much to spend. Just get your deck up and running and don't spend a fortune on it..:rolleyes:

[MikeMusic]

Just wanted to get a handle on the differences
For all I know it could be 50% on the Cartridge

I've got over 1000 LPs and some of them will never leave me !

[MikeMusic]

I'm gathering data as one option is to move the LP12 on
It was early 80s I bought the full set up and I don't have a clue what the split was.
It was the same LP12, an Ittok and maybe the Karma

I'm more interested in how much music I can squeeze out of my kit than the kit itself - although I do have a interest in the kit !

[DSJR]

In terms of vinyl, the deck comes forst, then the arm, then the cartridge PLUS phono stage in that order - as I was taught and proved to myself thirty five or more years ago. You can take all sorts of liberties with digital these days, since the electronics at least are very cheap indeed (I eagerly await the Bushmaster DAC as reliable proof of what I'm saying :)), but not with vinyl, as good quality production engineering is essential for best results.

Re your LP12. The 1982 stock sub-chassis is ok and with new belt, mat, springs, grommets and a bloody good setup should be fine - it is the glued sub-chassis isn't it and not the hugely inferior spot-welded type which really does "boing" in the bass? If the armboard is the plywood one, get that changed for the laminated MDF one as this also improves the bass. These bits shouldn't cost the earth as long as the main bearing can be rescued, depending on the state of the spindle tip and the running mark on there. Linn's black oil is fine and there are other formulations which work well too and won't cause the nylon bushings to swell and seize up. A service along those lines won't cost too many hundreds unless the dealer is greedy and/or desperate for funds.....

Was the cartridge a Klyde? I don't like it at all, but many Linnies still do so it will retain a value of sorts... A Karma is worth every penny of getting a re-tip and the internally related Troika is transformed for the better with an ESCo Paratrace stylus, judging by the needle-drops I've heard.

[MikeMusic]

Thanks Dave
The separate phono stage is new to me. I have the cards in the Naim 82
I remember now the same that I had forgotten. Been so long since I was actively exploring, ealy 80s. Been working too much on the business since then
I think the Cirkus upgrade may replace the spot welded bit....

[hifi_dave]

I really wouldn't spend too much on 'mods' for the LP12 as they are often changes and not improvements. For this pleasure, you will pay many hundreds of Pounds.

You have been enjoying it up till now, so why not get the faults ironed out, have a service and get a new cartridge ? As an ex-Linn dealer, I really detest scare mongering to make the customer spend unnecessary amounts for things which don't need replacing.

[MikeMusic]

Got the impression reading online reviews that the Cirkus was a big step up
Last upgrade I had was the Karma retipped and the Aro, around 10-15 years ago.
I've been experimenting with various since we moved in 2003 when I found the sound to be appalling. Mostly mains tweaks to sort that, but its infectious hearing so much more in the music.
Knowing percentages for each component would give me a handle on what I might do.
Think the current price for an LP12 is £1800 (!)
An Aro if still made would be around £2000 - so that could well be an imbalance although built for the LP12 I believe.
So that leaves a sensible figure of £500 for a cartridge ?
But what if I can get the Karma sorted ?
Gives me time to look/hear around

[chris@panteg]

Hi Mike

I think you could do a lot worse than taking your Linn to Hifi Dave's ?

[Artifolk]

Hi Mike

Looks like your in the same boat as me...we just keep chasing the sound. In all honesty i've given up this chase due the the exuberant prices in Linns upgrade path,Keel £2400,Radical £2800,Ekos se £3700 etc.
A fully fledged Linn now is in the region of £14,000.

So i'm sticking with what i have, unless the bits above come to me very cheaply.:D

[Audioman]

Hi Mike

Looks like your in the same boat as me...we just keep chasing the sound. In all honesty i've given up this chase due the the exuberant prices in Linns upgrade path,Keel £2400,Radical £2800,Ekos se £3700 etc.
A fully fledged Linn now is in the region of £14,000.

So i'm sticking with what i have, unless the bits above come to me very cheaply.:D

Why keep chasing the Linn 'Improvements'. Think lateraly sell it and go for something else. I think the latest add on's are the last desperate attempt to keep Linn above water. Better cheaper TT's have been on the market for years.

As far as the OP's question is concerned I would probably put a large portion of the budget (50%) between cartridge and seperate phono stage.

[chelsea]

Hi Mike

Looks like your in the same boat as me...we just keep chasing the sound. In all honesty i've given up this chase due the the exuberant prices in Linns upgrade path,Keel £2400,Radical £2800,Ekos se £3700 etc.
A fully fledged Linn now is in the region of £14,000.

So i'm sticking with what i have, unless the bits above come to me very cheaply.:D


:uhho:

[Jonboy]

:uhho:


exactly what i thought 14k thats just mad :stalks:

[nat8808]

What would be the percentages to spend on a record deck / arm / cartridge ?

As a starter how about 50% for the deck, 30% for the arm and 20% for the cartridge ?

I'm aware that is not the full picture with upgraded platters, PSUs etc.

Please feel free to educate me
:)

I'd say this approach is only valid if you're buying it all brand new and all at once.

You can't determine somethings performance by price alone, especially not in the secondhand market.

Turntables are also very much to do with everything working well together with certain great combinations defying normal hifi and price logic.

Also, often you can take advantage of people having already got a good system working well together and you buy it from them in one go - one price paid for the whole lot.

[MikeMusic]

I think you could be right !
Called Infidelity to day to put it on hold. Don't know what might have been ordered though

[MikeMusic]

<expletive deleted>
That is a *lot* of money
I noticed a very nice price Naim 52 and Supercap on Craiglist today, Walthamstow. Just serviced, well under what you would expect
It's the usual scammer in The Hebrides
Hang on, you have a Technics and an LP12. Please give whys an wherefores

[MikeMusic]

I'm coming round
I started with a problem to fix. Then I got upsold.
All kit can have improvements. It's what they cost and this is a bit steep

[MikeMusic]

I was after a ball park which I could well deviate from.
The comparison could be the new prices if 2nd hand
If you spend x on a deck then look at half x for an arm say

[sq225917]

Mike, keep the deck, put a drop of oil in the motor, buy a new belt, replace your felt mat, have your cartridge checked out and enjoy. All the other mods you might consider are costly and offer little real return. For example the difference between a Cirkus's LP12 and a freshly set-up none Cirkus'd deck is remarkably small compared to a cart swap for example.

If you have specific areas of your playbak that you wish to improve then target it that way, but just picking a ballpark % to spend and then spending it is no route to audio nirvana

[JJack]

I'm not a Linn guy so I don't know which upgrade is which.

There are so many great deck and arm combinations (where the manufacturers have already optimized the setup for that particular combination) that I'd say to get a combo.

Get the deck and arm you want, and then look for the bend in the performance curve for a cartridge and phono stage.

If you must have a guess, I'd say, 50% table/arm, 25% cart, 25% phono stage.

[doodoos]

Think the phono stage is a very underrated bit of kit

[tommy6206]

Also budget if you can for a RCM if your going vinyl.Best upgrade I've made.

[MikeMusic]

Thanks
How do the Phono cards inside my Naim 82 fit into the Phono stage arena ?

[MikeMusic]

And not one I've looked at ....

[MikeMusic]

Is that the Moth record cleaner ?
I have a Clearaudio which I assume is similar

[hifi_dave]

Of course, that is absolutely fine as are the phono boards in your pre. Naturally, there are better phono stages but we need to get your TT up and running again, without Pixie dust..:rolleyes:

[MikeMusic]

Thanks
Tiny steps suits me

[hifi_dave]

I'm a believer in small steps, so that you can appreciate what you've done. I'm also a believer in not spending money when you don't have to. Perhaps that's why I'm not a rich Hi-Fi dealer..:doh:

[MikeMusic]

Was reading something yesterday, probably New Scientist.
Talked about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Then mentioned some throw the bath away. Liked that.
I wasn't as convinced as I should be when I changed my Fons/Rotel/Leak 2075 speakers to LP12/Naim/Isobariks - just on the Fons - LP12 area. I wonder how the Fons would have been ....
Incremental is best for sure.
Recommendation also works very well, that's how we get most of our print business. I often advise people to have less printed or save money. - *I* feel better about that.
Radlett is just about doable for me and I think I will be with you in the not too distant future. I too am a paid up member of the "careful with money" club !

[jon1]

I'm a believer in small steps, so that you can appreciate what you've done. I'm also a believer in not spending money when you don't have to. Perhaps that's why I'm not a rich Hi-Fi dealer..:doh:





Honest dave:D



jon