New Composite Platter for SL1200s from Mike New

[Mike_New]

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9708/newplatter002web.jpg

Hi Folks
I have eventually bowed to peoples requests and produced a platter machined from a high quality engineering material.
This is not acrylic as you can see from the image; but a material specification I have chosen after a few trials with various grades available.

I believe it sounds great and is not as shrill as the original acrylic platter that I machined up nearly a year ago.
For reference I am using a SME V with Benz Ruby MC.

The Platter is totally non-resonant and the material used is less dense than Alluminium. It therefore weighs somewhat less than my Copper Bonded Solid Alluminium Platter. so I am able to make them thicker and not sacrifice my aim to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible.

This platter will sell for $875.00 Including Postage

The platter shown weighs 3.5Kg which is approx 8lbs

The platter is shown mounted to a recently aquired MK3 from Japan

My own analysis of the characteristics is that the platter is not quite as obvious in the base region, if you enjoy cello or double base music as I do. (This may because of the effective greater mass of the Alluminium platter.)
The upper registers are perhaps more detailed.

Although the base material is somewhat more costly than the
alluminium blanks, it is far easier to machine.

In the image shown, the platter surface is 17mm above the top of the
chassis, which provides ample clearance for VTA adjustment of retro fitted
arms like the Jelco SME etc. Also decent engineered arm boards can now be
used which are substantial enough to do the job.

The platter can of course be machined thinner (or thicker) and can be a customer specification. if required.
I have provided a 1.5mm lip under the skirt so as to provide improved
esthetics when people upgrade to the Bearing Base Plate.

I am willing to machine the outer profile of the platter as required by the customer. The one you see is most likely to be the more popular.

The facility for lifting the Platter off the bearing can be either two 8mm threaded holes ( as with my Copper Bonded Platter) or a machined groove where the resonance damping ring is located on the Copper Platter so that you can get your fingers in to lift.

Five inserts have been included purely for aesthetic considerations. However the platters can be supplied in either
a) Off-White (as shown) with black inserts.
b) Black with White inserts
c) Black or White with no inserts
The platters use my standard Solid Brass center Boss for the utmost rigidity and locational accuracy with machined taper which is matched to my master gauge taper spindle.

I shall of course continue to offer the copper version.
The first of these platters will be going to a SL1200 music enthusiast in Melbourne who has agreed to do an evaluation for me.

[WOStantonCS100]

:stalks:

Looks awesome! ...and colour choices, too...
...as if I needed my platter decision to be made any more difficult.

[Mike_New]

Biff,
As you would be one of the first users, I would be happy to exchange it for my Copper Bonded Platter if you felt that you needed more bass humph.

[jostber]

Looks great. Will not ask what it's made of. :) Is this meant to be used with or without a thin mat?

[Mike_New]

Jostein,
The use or not of a mat, and if yes, what type, material or design to use is a question that always arises. My evaluation was done using one of the original ribbed mats (a new one) supplied on the later SL1200s and the one I have used on my Alluminium platter.
However I did try playing without a mat and was somewhat surprised that I could not detect a large positive difference either way. I have machined the top surface diameter to 299mm which just allows the raised lip/edge of the outer edge of the record to overlap the top of the platter so that the recorded surface sits squarely on the platter surface.

[MartinT]

It looks excellent, Mike. More power to you for providing even more choice to the enthusiasts' market. Do you recommend your bearing for use with it? It looks from the photo that you've put it on a standard bearing.

[Mike_New]

Hi Martin,
Very observant of you! Yes the platter is shown mounted onto the standard bearing that came with the MK3. (I have not upgraded it yet)
Because the material is somewhat less dense than Alluminium or Copper, I have modified the profile so that there is less material located below the bearing point. And since it weighs about 3.5Kg I guess it could be possible to use it with the standard bearing. Although I do not believe it would be sensible to do so.

[Artifolk]

Looks cool.

More choice is great but.. for me the decision is now a little trickier, now all we need is for someone to review this against the Funk Platter etc.

Mike any chance of a picture of the black with white inserts?
Also have you thought about making a slight taper in the top of the platter (similar to the Oyaide mat) in this material or even Acrylic?

[kininigin]

There's also one from david (MCRU) to come,come on david spill the beans :)

So that's 2 from mike new,1 from vantage audio,1 from funk firm and MCRU.

From my point of view some more choice on the bearing front wouldn't go amiss either.

[Pete]

Nice one Mike!

But I am sticking to your original non-coppertop platter, as it sounds fabulous to me :)

[Marco]

Mike any chance of a picture of the black with white inserts?


Yes, could you do that please, Mike? :)

In fact, if you could produce an all-black platter, with no white bits at all, so much the better!

Marco.

[alex_san78]

Hi Mike! New platter looks really beautiful! Looking forward to read some review on it.

[JazzBones]

Hi Martin,
Very observant of you! Yes the platter is shown mounted onto the standard bearing that came with the MK3. (I have not upgraded it yet)
Because the material is somewhat less dense than Alluminium or Copper, I have modified the profile so that there is less material located below the bearing point. And since it weighs about 3.5Kg I guess it could be possible to use it with the standard bearing. Although I do not believe it would be sensible to do so.

Shame on you Mike!!!!!! :lol::doh:
I'm staying with my MN copper top (bluey) metal platter now with the all black Reso-Mat the perfect match with your metal platter. Will be cleaning up my Funk mat to sell as this sounds somewhat muffled compared to the Reso.

Like you, I listen to alot of string instruments from the violin to Ray Brown's big sounding double base, and all inbetween. French horn (Barry Tuckell) is another instrument that now sounds good with the Reso-Mat... I don't know how this would perform on the Achromat type of support though :scratch: ?

Well done on the new Mike New platter mate and it has the option of being tailor made too :)

Cheers
Ron

PS glad you liked the picture of the Chianti bottle, still full :cheers:

[Mike_New]

Looks cool.

More choice is great but.. for me the decision is now a little trickier, now all we need is for someone to review this against the Funk Platter etc.

Mike any chance of a picture of the black with white inserts?Also have you thought about making a slight taper in the top of the platter (similar to the Oyaide mat) in this material or even Acrylic?

Hi Charles,
I just new that someone would ask that question!!
I have at this stage only concentrated on Off-White as I reckoned it is a good match with both the black and silver models.
However I will order some Black blanks tomorrow.
As far as the overall profile of the Platter is concerned, as I indicated you can specify any shape you would prefer within reason. All you have to do is to give me a copy of the shape you require.

I will also provide a Black one with no inserts just for Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Mike,


I have at this stage only concentrated on Off-White as I reckoned it is a good match with both the black and silver models.


I guess that's where aesthetics come down to personal taste. Personally, I prefer platters to 'disappear' on a turntable, rather than stick out like a sore thumb, unless it's polished chrome contrasting with piano black, which I quite like, but the platter would have to be really chunky!

However, on a black Techy, I think that a plain black platter looks best. Here's mine as it currently is with the Funk platter (as per my avatar):


http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/3784/2014489200071997495s600.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/862/2014489200071997495s600.jpg/)


Rather classy and somewhat understated, don't you think? If you could emulate that look with your platter, I think it would appeal to lots of people :cool:



I will also provide a Black one with no inserts just for Marco.

The inserts are fine, if they have a sonic purpose, just as long as they are as 'invisible' as possible :)

Marco.

[Pete]

The inserts should be visible so you can see that they are there, better than a boring homogeneous platter

[Marco]

Well, Pete, I guess that's subjective... Do you think that the platter on my T/T above looks boring? :)

Any anyway, I suppose you wouldn't see any inserts when a record was on top!

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Folks,
I included the inserts as per sample shown simply because people commented on how 'sexy' the Alluminium Platter looked with the Brass inserts, which did serve a purpose sonically.
Ultimately I moved to the Copper Bonded version at Marco's sugestion as the evaluation indicated that it was sonically superior.
It may be that the addition of Brass inserts ( or other material) may alter the characteristics of this new platter, but I am of the opinion that we are fast reaching the nearly horizontal part of the exponential upgrade curve, where any percieved improvement either electronic or mechanical is going to be purely a personally one.

[WOStantonCS100]

...brass inserts... :drool:

[Marco]

Yes, brass or silver (on black) would look better than white, IMO, if one wishes to highlight the inserts :)

Marco.

[Artifolk]

Mike

Do the inserts pass through to the underside of the Platter or are they just surface mounted?

[Pete]

Well, Pete, I guess that's subjective...

Marco.

Marco,

Just as subjective as your comment! But that's what forums are for :)

Cheers
Pete

[Pete]

Mike

It does appear that you are in the horizontal part of the curve, and at this point preferences for one platter material over another, are likely more about tuning for one's particular system and taste rather than the superiority of one platter vs. the other.

Based on your description of the different sonic signature of the new composite platter, that is a direction I don't want to go sonically, so I am perfectly happy to stick with your baseline platter.

[Just my opinion]

Pete

[Marco]

Hi Pete,


Just as subjective as your comment! But that's what forums are for.


Absolutely on both counts. In terms of design aesthetics, I'll always favour simplicity and understatement over anything which 'shouts' at you too much :)


It does appear that you are in the horizontal part of the curve, and at this point preferences for one platter material over another, are likely more about tuning for one's particular system and taste rather than the superiority of one platter vs. the other.


This isn't about any notion that one platter is 'superior' to another, but rather achieving SYNERGY within one's own T/T and system :cool:

Marco.

[Pete]

Marco,

I knew we where on the same page :)
Just offering some babble to highlight the point.

Pete
:barrel:

[MartinT]

Yup - the range of offerings means that synergy with any given system should be more achievable. The difficulty for potential upgraders will be which one to go for.

[john diamond]

Isn't this new platter from mike new just the same as the funk firms platter?

It's just not cricket is it?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Isn't this new platter from mike new just the same as the funk firms platter?

It's just not cricket is it?

It might be the same idea as funk firms but it might not be the same material hence an old idea but a new platter design. More the merrier I say.

[Mike_New]

Hi John,

Isn't this new platter from mike new just the same as the funk firms platter?

It's just not cricket is it?

The physical shape and mechanical parameters would have to be the same whoever produced them.
However I was the first person to work out the design of a replacement platter and the machining and positioning of the pulse generator. So as to make it easy for people to swap over to the new platter by just moving the drive magnet across. Others have followed my lead much later in time.

The platter can practically be made from any material as long as it is machinable.

I have chosen a special form of engineering material which I believe is superior to Acrylic which I undestand the Funk platter is made from.

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

So what about a nice all-black platter, then? Or if you must, one with gold or silver inserts? :)

Incidentally, as you kindly offered, if you could send a sample platter to Martin (any style will do), he and I will evaluate it and report our findings on the forum next time I'm down at his place :cool:

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Ok you've got me.
I have ordered two black blanks and will machine one with no inserts, and post it to Martin.
I have one question, the Platters can be machined to be much thicker, as I indicated in my original post. The one shown sits approx 12mm above the top of the chassis. What height above the chassis do you require? to accomodate VTA.

[MartinT]

I'll measure it tonight, Mike. Remember I have the base plate which makes it sit slightly higher.

[WOStantonCS100]

In the image shown, the platter surface is 17mm above the top of the
chassis...

That's right about where I measure the surface of my record mat (Technics heavy mat) with the MN bearing installed. I don't have a base plate, though.

[Marco]

I'll measure it tonight, Mike. Remember I have the base plate which makes it sit slightly higher.

Remember that I don't! ;)

It's not so bad, in terms of VTA, now that I've got a deeply recessed armboard, as there is plenty of adjustment with my arm and cartridge. But it wasn't always so, and most people will be using 'normal' armboards, therefore that needs to be accounted for.

However, I reckon something around 2 inches thicker than the Funk platter would be good, so I'd measure what that is and then add on a couple of inches :)

Mike,

Are the inserts not there for a sonic purpose? If not, then removing them is fine.

In terms of the exact colour of black for the platter, please match it with the colour of the black Funk Achromat. What you want is for the mat and your platter to blend into one, just like it does on my T/T currently, as both Martin and I will be sticking a black Achromat on top of your platter.

If you get the colour right, it will also match perfectly with the black top plate of the SL-1210.

Oh, and in terms of platter thickness, make sure that there's sufficient spindle length (on one of your bearings) to accommodate the platter, a 5mm Achromat, a thick 180g record, if necessary, and a record clamp or weight.

Looking at this picture:


http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9708/newplatter002web.jpg


There appears to be precious little spindle clearance, even without a mat or record on top.

In fact, thinking about it, for that to happen your platter must already be quite a bit thicker than the Funk one is...?

Mmm... In that case, as I'd definitely want to try your platter in conjunction with an Achromat (as I suspect Martin will), you'll probably have to make the black one you're sending us thinner, to accommodate that and also a thick record and weight or clamp.

Nice one - it should be interesting! :cool:

Marco.

[Mike_New]

With this material the inserts would not produce any sonic change, they were purely for aesthetic purposes.
I have no control over the colour, this is determined by the manufacturers.
The platter is shown mounted onto a standard bearing not my Bearing which has a longer spindle. I will put one of my bearings into the MK3 and re-issue the iamge.

The platter you see was machined from a blank which was initially 30mm (1.2") thick

What you must remember is that different types of platter will demand different mats to extract the optimum sonic performance. An Alluminium/Copper platter would respond differently to a non-metalic platter when combined with the various mats available I am sure.

I have used the same principle of using a Brass central boss machined with the spindle taper, as I believe that the very fine taper if machined into non-metalic materials could cause the taper to stretch over time.

[Marco]

Hi Mike,


With this material the inserts would not produce any sonic change, they were purely for aesthetic purposes.


Cool, no worries.


I have no control over the colour, this is determined by the manufacturers.


Ok, but perhaps you could send the manufacturers your Achromat (I believe that you have one) and ask them to match the platter to the same colour?

Either that or send them a nice quality colour picture of an SL-1210 and tell them you'd like the platter to match the top-plate (or ask them to look at one on-line and match the colour there as closely as possible)? :)

I know I'm a fussy bugger, but one of the reasons why the black Funk platter works on the SL-1210 is because, aesthetically, it looks so bloody good!


The platter is shown mounted onto a standard bearing not my Bearing which has a longer spindle. I will put one of my bearings into the MK3 and re-issue the iamge.


That would be good, as I would definitely need sufficient room to accommodate a 5mm Achromat, 180g record (if necessary) and a record weight on top.


What you must remember is that different types of platter will demand different mats to extract the optimum sonic performance. An Alluminium/Copper platter would respond differently to a non-metalic platter when combined with the various mats available I am sure.


Indeed, and we will try it with records directly on top of the platter, and see what happens. But if possible, I would definitely like provision in place, in terms of available spindle length, to also try it with an Achromat, together with all the other bits I mentioned.

Marco.

[Artifolk]

Could this be the platter to end all platters for the Techy?
I don't know but with so many options this surely is moving in the right direction.

For review purposes would it not be to our advantages to start with Mikes Standard version to fit his Bearing? Then if it gets rave reviews( Marco/Martin) move on to the custom stages and see what can really be achieved ? :eyebrows:

We all could be onto a winner here, taking the Techy to even greater heights.


I'll get me coat!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Could this be the platter to end all platters for the Techy?


Prolly not. ;)

[john diamond]

Hey Marco, it seems to me that your playing favouritism, where is the funk firm platter review? and your going to review mike new's platter?

You should be less political in your position, or are you in cahoots?


How would mike new like it if his bearing was reproduced but out of aluminium - that's a different material isn't it? I bet he would be cheesed off?

Rexton - another point to consider is a company like mike new sells direct, getting double bubble, and a company like the funk firm and other Hi-Fi design companies have dealers and there margins and do not sell direct........

So my question, is it that mike new's products are too much money or is it that the funk firm and other Hi-Fi companies, are to cheap?

And before I'm blinded with science about how precisely engineered your tolerances are, and how exotic the materials are, please do not underestimate my understanding of buying metals, ceramics, woods and plastics and machining them, whether it be by hand, or on the latest computerised numerical controlled machine.

[Marco]

Hey Marco, it seems to me that your playing favouritism, where is the funk firm platter review? and your going to review mike new's platter?

You should be less political in your position, or are you in cahoots?


Lol! To be honest, I shouldn't be laughing, but that's bloody ridiculous!! :D

Mike's platter will be listened to and commented on here, informally, like Arthur's has, but whether it will be properly reviewed is another matter entirely. Doing that properly takes time - time which many of us currently don't have.

I have to laugh at people who just sit back and wait for others to do all the work for them.... We've got lives to lead, too, and don't get paid to do reviews!

If you want a review of a particular platter, buy one and do your own, or back off and have the patience to wait ;)

Marco.

[john diamond]

Some of us aren't in the position of being given expensive platter's and whatnots, if you would like too forward the platter's to me on a purely loan review basis, I would be more than happy to produce the reviews.....



You could do a platter shoot-out in the future between all the manufacturers, that would be something worthy of testing my patience :)

[Marco]

Would you have any intentions of buying one of the platters, John, presuming that such a review was carried out?

Marco.

[john diamond]

Not at the moment as I am saving for the funk firm platter, on the basis of the Martin T review, but I am open minded, would it not be interesting though for such a review to take place?

-

[Marco]

If you're saving for the Funk platter, the answer to the question then is actually, yes! ;)

And yes, such a review would be interesting. We'll see what can be done :)

Marco.

[WOStantonCS100]

Mike, as soon as my tax refund arrives, we'll be talking... ...again. :)

[RobbieGong]

Would you have any intentions of buying one of the platters, John, presuming that such a review was carried out?

Marco.

Nice one Marco :thumbsup: , I think it's a fair burden really that most of us expect either you or maybe Martin to give regularly up time etc with regard to reviewing all the numerous bits and pieces now. So yeah, let a few others get stuck in and spread the load :) Can only be a good thing for everyone at the end of the day ! :D

[Mike_New]

And before I'm blinded with science about how precisely engineered your tolerances are, and how exotic the materials are, please do not underestimate my understanding of buying metals, ceramics, woods and plastics and machining them, whether it be by hand, or on the latest computerised numerical controlled machine.

Tis sad me thinks that with all that commercial and technical experience, you have to save so hard for a platter. I had always thought that experience of the type you profess to have would provide a reasonably good disposable income in the UK.

[Mike_New]

How would mike new like it if his bearing was reproduced but out of aluminium - that's a different material isn't it? I bet he would be cheesed off?

Rexton - another point to consider is a company like mike new sells direct, getting double bubble, and a company like the funk firm and other Hi-Fi design companies have dealers and there margins and do not sell direct........

So my question, is it that mike new's products are too much money or is it that the funk firm and other Hi-Fi companies, are to cheap?



Hi John,
Having re-read you recent post, I feel that maybe it demands a more erudite reply.

If someone were to attempt to produce my bearing in Alluminium or Blue Cheese (both materials would probably work just as well!) it would be good luck to them, as far as I am concerned. You see it is not exactly as if I am selling them at the rate of ten per week. As this activity is very much a boutique market and consequently a very finite one, the same goes for Platters.
However there will always be people who want to latch onto the band wagon after the initial work and development has been done., which means that the spoils are even more thinly spread.

As for your observation that I get “double Bubble”; have you not heard of selling over the internet? The very medium that makes this interactive conversation possible.
I myself have purchased audio products direct from such valid suppliers as Origin Live (who I believe have a distributor in OZ) and indeed from Funk. and others. So what is your problem with this as you see it?

In summation there is no commercial reason why any company should not sell directly through the internet, providing they have some formal agreement on end-user pricing to protect any distributors they may have. In fact this increasingly is the way of the world and indeed a commercial imperative for must enterprises large or small. to wit Paul Haynes et al

In conclusion John, you are welcome to ‘evaluate” my platter, however it would be somewhat of a hollow exercise without a good bearing to go with it.

[MartinT]

Hey Marco, it seems to me that your playing favouritism, where is the funk firm platter review? and your going to review mike new's platter?

That's seriously out of order, John. You're new here, but be very careful before accusing someone of favouritism. Some of us have tried many variations of bearing/platter/mat and can speak from experience. We always tell it like it is, and check with each other behind the scenes, as well as listening to each other's systems, to confirm our findings. There will always be differences of opinion, but it's not because we're partisan with the suppliers. Why do you think so many trade companies are well represented here? One reason is that they sense that we play fair.

[Darren]

That's seriously out of order, John. You're new here, but be very careful before accusing someone of favouritism. Some of us have tried many variations of bearing/platter/mat and can speak from experience. We always tell it like it is, and check with each other behind the scenes, as well as listening to each other's systems, to confirm our findings. There will always be differences of opinion, but it's not because we're partisan with the suppliers. Why do you think so many trade companies are well represented here? One reason is that they sense that we play fair.

While old Diamante has got his knickers in a twist. There is favouritism shown to some suppliers shown on this forum. In general its suppliers who provide good kit and good service at keen prices - nothing wrong with that. We would be much poorer without the contributions of Stan, Hifi Dave, Guy, Mike New etc etc.

[MartinT]

No, there's nothing wrong with favouring our trade members, Darren, and we do that quite a lot as you say. However, we will always say it like it is and not review or promote components biased towards any particular traders.

[Wakefield Turntables]

That's seriously out of order, John. You're new here, but be very careful before accusing someone of favouritism. Some of us have tried many variations of bearing/platter/mat and can speak from experience. We always tell it like it is, and check with each other behind the scenes, as well as listening to each other's systems, to confirm our findings. There will always be differences of opinion, but it's not because we're partisan with the suppliers. Why do you think so many trade companies are well represented here? One reason is that they sense that we play fair.

+1.

John,

Its ok to have an opinion but yours stinks. I buy from Mike because countless others have and the findings they report back in the forum are true. Mikes making a new platter, I aint buying it! I'm extremely happy with the 1st one I bought, he produced something for me that lifted my deck to new extremes I'm very very happy. His new platter my make things even better but I'm buying a Paul Hynes PSU. OOOppppssss sorry that another forum member that I'm not supposed to buy from because he hangs around the forum. John if I were you I'd apologise and keep your stupid comments to yourself, you have no idea how stupid you look at the moment.

A

[RobbieGong]

Personally I think we should all move on, no ones perfect, we all make mistakes (or slip up). Marco said his bit, moved on and we got to a place where the discussion was re: reviewing platters. Leave it alone now please. I love this sight, all it has to offer re: hifi, (I've learned much) the banter and discussions are great, stuf like this though feels uncomfortable, unrelenting, a bit like witnessing a kicking when someones already down - come on guys Please lets get back on thread !! Peace and Love to one and all :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Personally I think we should all move on, no ones perfect, we all make mistakes (or slip up). Marco said his bit, moved on and we got to a place where the discussion was re: reviewing platters. Leave it alone now please. I love this sight, all it has to offer re: hifi, (I've learned much) the banter and discussions are great, stuf like this though feels uncomfortable, unrelenting, a bit like witnessing a kicking when someones already down - come on guys Please lets get back on thread !! Peace and Love to one and all :)

Point taken. :peace:

[RobbieGong]

Point taken. :peace:

Nice one Andrew, It takes a man to be a man so nuf respect to you :respect:

[Mike_New]

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/1548/newplatter02web.jpg

This is the all Black Platter

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1548/newplatter02web.jpg

This is the same platter with thin flexible mat

Hi Folks
Here are the pics of the all black ETP Platter.
This no doubt will make Marco happy.
I will use the generic title ETP (Engineering Thermo Plastic) as this more accurately describes the material. The exact type or grade is not important at the moment.

A platter has been provided to a music aficionado in Melbourne who has said he will write up a summation of his opinions. I have no connection with him other than he recently purchased a bearing from me.

I would be happy to work with anyone else who would like to try this new ETP version in addition to Martin.

However there is I believe one caveat, this new platter cannot be accurately judged sonically by the use of one particular mat simply because it works well with my Copper Clad Platter and has become the standard by which others are judged (I have one). This is a totally different material from Acrylic or Copper/Alluminium. Therefore the response will be different depending on the type of mat used as before or perhaps not mat at all.
I have used the thin flexible mat supplied by Origin Live for my tests and to my ears it performs well.

a) The standard platter sits at 12mm above the surface of the chassis.

b) The top of the platter as shown, is 22mm above the top surface.

c) This provides considerable vertical room for VTA adjustment of retro fitted tone arms and also allows for the fitting of thicker much more substantial one-piece Arm Boards. However the top surface of the platter can be machined down to whatever the user requires or made even higher.

d) You will also notice that the pics now show my bearing installed into the MK3 which provides more spindle length than the standard one (this requirement was anticipated when I designed the bearing) and allows the use of a thicker platter.

e) I am now able to machine a curvature into the top surface of the platter to allow for better clamping of partially warped records. However this can only be taken advantage of, if using a thin flexible mat; or no mat at all!
I personally would not recommend it, however it can be done.

f) Also a label recess can be machined into the surface

g) Lifting holes can be provided or a groove machined into the edge for lifting.

[MartinT]

Broken link, Mike.

[Mike_New]

Thanks Martin you were a bit ahead of me

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

That looks great, and very nicely finished! :)

I think you'll find it beneficial being able to offer customers black and white versions of your platter, as many people, like me, will prefer the more 'sober' look of just a plain black one. And looking at the colour you've achieved, I suspect that it will look great on the blacker top plate of a MK5G. The MK2 and MK3 is more of a dark grey. I suspect too, that the black platter will even look good on a silver SL-1200. The contrast should work well.

I think that a label recess would be mandatory, if one were using the platter without a mat, as otherwise records won't sit flat against the platter. I found that to be the case with the copper composite one, even though the surface was effectively the mat.

Just a couple of questions, how much heavier (if any) is your platter than the stock Technics one? If you could provide details of the weights of both platters, that would be useful.

Also, is the T/T shown in the picture fitted with your bearing base plate (as well as) your bearing?

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Hi Marco,
The colour you see is the natural colour of the particular ETP that I am using, as is the off-white version. (two colours only).
This platter as you see it, weighs in at about 3.5Kg. The Copper Bonded Solid Alluminium Platter comes in at about 6Kg both depending on the thickness.
The stock platter weighs in at about 1.5Kg

The MK3 shown with my bearing is not fitted with a Bearing Base Plate.
The thickness of the platter makes it look that way.
Note how much height can be gained when the standard VTA adjustment is wound up to maximum.

Also I am now machining a 2mm outer skirt under the platter edge, so that anyone who decides to fit the Bearing base Plate at a later date, can do so without upsetting the aesthetics.

[Marco]

This platter as you see it, weighs in at about 3.5Kg. The Copper Bonded Solid Alluminium Platter comes in at about 6Kg both depending on the thickness.
The stock platter weighs in at about 1.5Kg


So your new platter weighs roughly half of that of the aluminium platter... Interesting.

As an aside, note how successfully the black platter compliments the well at the base of the stock tonearm (the same would also apply if an ebony armboard were fitted):


http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1548/newplatter02web.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/newplatter02web.jpg/)


I know you're not as focussed on aesthetics, as you are on engineering your designs, but trust me, these things matter! ;)

Any idea yet what you're going to call your new platter? What exactly is the material that it's made from called?


Also I am now machining a 2mm outer skirt under the platter edge, so that anyone who decides to fit the Bearing base Plate at a later date, can do so without upsetting the aesthetics.

Good idea. I'd also incorporate a label recess, as standard :)

Marco.

[MartinT]

Good idea. I'd also incorporate a label recess as standard :)

You may not want a label recess if you're going to use a hard mat like the Achromat and bond it with vaseline. The more surface area that mates the two, the better.

[Marco]

Indeed, Martin, the recess would be as standard only for those who don't wish to use the likes of an Achromat.

I mentioned what I did only because it appeared that Mike's original intention was for the platter to be used 'as is', in which case a label recess would be mandatory :)

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Yea,
This is a fine point Martin I personally believe as I have said, that the thicker mats with machined label recess, are not going to be ideal with the ETP paltter.
Refering to Marco's questions,
I would prefer not to identify the exact material that I am using at this point in time.
Suffice it to say that I did do some research in collaboration with materials consultants before selecting this particular type of ETP.

"Any idea yet what you're going to call your new platter?"

Yes I will refer to it as my ETP platter, as really this does define its genesis

[Mike_New]

Indeed, Martin, the recess would be as standard only for those who don't wish to use the likes of an Achromat.

I mentioned what I did only because it appeared that Mike's original intention was for the platter to be used 'as is', in which case a label recess would be mandatory :)

Marco.

My intention with this design is really to offer what people are personally convinced they want. If they intend to use the platter without a mat then a label recess would be required. Even with the thin, soft flexible mat shown a recess would be required.

[Marco]

Hi Mike,


This is a fine point Martin I personally believe as I have said, that the thicker mats with machined label recess, are not going to be ideal with the ETP paltter.


Interesting... And your rationale behind that is? :)

Should that be the case, perhaps you could send the sample platter along with an appropriate thin mat, in order that the platter can be assesed to its (possible) best advantage? I don't own a thin mat, and I susepct neither does Martin.


I would prefer not to identify the exact material that I am using at this point in time.
Suffice it to say that I did do some research in collaboration with materials consultants before selecting this particular type of ETP.

Yes I will refer to it as my ETP platter, as really this does define its genesis

Coolio! :cool:

Marco.

[MartinT]

Sounds good, Mike. Yes - best to evaluate the ETP platter with your choice of mat, I think.

[Mike_New]

I would be hoping that others might step forward to do the honours of trying one.
It does not seem to be reasonable that everyone should be relying on the work and opinions of two people. There must be a lot more enthusiasts out there who are in a position to contribute their advice.

[prestonchipfryer]

I would be glad to evaluate your new platter Mike, as a present I'm using standard platter with an Oyaide mat. PM me please.

John

[Artifolk]

Black looks far cooler,
Just wish my Psu was here and fitted, then i would have loved to have tried this out, by the time the Psu arrives(April) it will be to late as no doubt all the reviews will have been completed. Such a shame.

[jostber]

What about red with green dots? :)

[synsei]

I would be hoping that others might step forward to do the honours of trying one.
It does not seem to be reasonable that everyone should be relying on the work and opinions of two people. There must be a lot more enthusiasts out there who are in a position to contribute their advice.

Mike, I would gladly offer to evaluate your new platter, it looks really smart and I'm sure it does the bizz, but considering I am in no position to afford such an upgrade I feel it would be a waste of time and effort for both of us... ;)

[Mike_New]

What about red with green dots? :)

can't do red or green. Any colour so long as it is black or white.

[HoraceW]

Never heard of ETP but looks like a form of POM or even Nylon66? Interesting choice and what made you go for it?


Yea,
This is a fine point Martin I personally believe as I have said, that the thicker mats with machined label recess, are not going to be ideal with the ETP paltter.
Refering to Marco's questions,
I would prefer not to identify the exact material that I am using at this point in time.
Suffice it to say that I did do some research in collaboration with materials consultants before selecting this particular type of ETP.

"Any idea yet what you're going to call your new platter?"

Yes I will refer to it as my ETP platter, as really this does define its genesis

[Mike_New]

Hi Hugh,
ETP is the general name given to the group of plastics used in engineering applications by my suppliers. There are many types and many grades within a type.
The particular material I am using is a Teflon compound.

[Mike_New]

Hi Folks,
This is a review/appraisal of the new ETP Platter by a user in Melbourne who, together with his brother are keen SL1200 followers.
And would seem to have been methodical in their testing. I have no connection with them other than they recently purchased my bearings.
Chris does not seem to keen to interactively participate on the Forum and has given me permission to publish this in his stead.
It should be understood that his sonic comparisons are between the SP platter (original Technics platter) and my new ETP platter. It makes no attempt (for obvious reasons), at comparison between the ETP and the Copper Bonded Alluminium version. I will leave this to Martin later.

Mike:
Sorry that it’s taken a little while to get this to you. I wanted to
make sure I got this spot on if it might in any way persuade someone
to part with their hard earned cheese. I have enjoyed the process very
much and having the new platter in place has opened my ears to a few
other small system tweaks that have been quite positive and have
remained in place.

I’ve now had the chance to lean into a couple of good sessions with
the “New” platter; let’s call it the ETP from here. During these
sessions I have had a standard Technics platter complete with magnet
on hand; let’s call it the SP. A good amount of A-Bing was done . I
had a number of different platter mats available but I perhaps feel I
did not have one that really got the best out of your platter… but
more on that later.

My 1200 is set up with a Jelco 250ST arm with an Ortofon 2M black on
board. My turntable sits on a slab of bluestone set on Isopods. The
standard feet are sitting on vibrapods, on cork based timber coasters.
All of this sits on a heavy hardwood cabinet on carpeted concrete
floors and is very well isolated from any nasty vibrations. Tapping
the deck or anything it sits on confirms this.

It has your bearing fitted which was a huge sonic improvement for my
vinyl playback. So many of the things that I thought were wrong with
my analogue front end went away when I fitted this beast of a bearing.

The deck is currently running on 12v SLA batteries. The power supply
and transformer have been removed and I have tapped the battery supply
in where the 21v from the standard regulator comes in, just before
the C3 cap, which has been changed to a 100uf Blackgate NX bypassed
with a .47uf NX HiQ. Well worth putting some quality bits in here.
Pitch and strobe are out of play. All this improved the noise floor
and gave a bit to the dynamics. Well worth the effort and time.

I have implemented the motor dynamics mod and like it with the heavier
ETP Platter. With soldering iron on standby I could change back and forth in
around 1 minute (I have some ideas on this! Mike). During that session my brother (in another room)
commented that the solo acoustic guitar at the beginning of a track
sounded like it was going slightly in and out of tune. He also
preferred the sound when I reverted back to having the mod in place.

Phono stage is homebrew tubes, amps were homebrew single ended tubes
and a modded Dayens Ampino and speakers were either high efficiency
paper driver 2 ways or single driver affairs (beta 8’s).It’s a well
tuned and revealing system but not ultra Fi by any means, which is
important in terms of this review.

So Mike, this is how it went….

The ETP Platter delivers a better organised, more focused and more realistic
soundstage in terms of size and 3-dimensionality. The “New” bearing
opened up a new and very welcome level of depth of stage and the ETP Platter adds to this… in all directions. I also felt a greater sense of the
floor of the stage and it seemed to extend to the floor in front of me
on some tracks which gives the impression of standing on or being
involved in the soundstage rather than it just hanging on the wall.
V.cool.

When you hold the ETP platter in your hands you get a sense of how it might sound by its weight and feel and the sound it makes when you tap it.

These things definitely translate across to the music. The ETP Platter provides a very solid and neutral platform for playback and gives nothing back in the way of unwanted energy transmissions or vibration to the stylus. The bell like ringing of the SP is well documented and when
it’s gone, you notice!
I have to say at this point that I did a lot of toying with platter mats to try and get the SP sounding close to the new ETP Platter. In the end it was close but no cigar. The best results I got with the ETP Platter came with the use of what looked to me like an original Technics mat…with the rings.
I know there are plenty of other potentially better options out there so I think there is potential for further improvement. In fact I’m sure of it. If the Platter you sent had had a recess for the record label, then perhaps vinyl straight on top could have been a serious contender. Anyway, I used this mat with the SP too, but underneath that was an old 50’s slab of a record (acetate?) weighing 350g on top of another solid, flat rubber mat of about 4mm thick sitting on and just inside the raised edge of the SP. It added a
good amount of weight to the SP and if struck gave a very dead
(although kind of rubbery) thud. Although a little unconventional, it
was a similar finished height and was the best sounding set up to
date. That is what was used for A/Bing.

Generally during the A/B tests I would listen to a track with the
first platter, then listen to the beginning of that track again (it
always sounds different the second time), then change platters and
listen, then back if needed, certainly the first times, till I was
certain of what I was hearing. For the first few runs I had the “New”
platter on first. After the change back to the stock, on several
occasions; I thought, hang on, does this sound more musical to me? Is
there more weight and warmth? Is it a bit smoother?……… Changing back
to your ETP Platter, I quickly realised that while these qualities were
partly present, they were artificial qualities and what I was hearing
was actually a bit blurred and smeared. Notes were overhung and I
had lost the leading edge of the notes and percussive hits along with
quite a bit of insight into the recording/event. The new platter doesn’t sound
less musical. Not at all. It just sounds more right. More realistic.

I don’t feel the need to go on about how certain parts of certain
songs sounded a certain way because what I was hearing is how it’s
supposed to sound; without any overhang on notes, any boom or bloom in
the bass or mids and with more clarity and less hash in the tops. And
I listen to all kinds of music… from Dr Dre to Dr Buzzard, from Beck
to Bowie to Basie… and that’s just the B’s. Well produced electronic
music sounded fantastic. As did acoustic, rock and jazz. It all had
weight and punch but also conveyed good emotion.

There is an obvious improvement also in the frequency extremes…
particularly in the top end in my system, which is partly responsible
for a lot of the things I have mentioned so far. My system won’t do
good pure 20hz but it does pretty well to around 30hz and I could hear
good improvements there too.

So for mine, in my system, your new ETP Platter does a sensational job at
getting right all of the things that the Technics platter gets wrong
in a nicely neutral and accurate way. It allows the passing on of
information crucial to the ‘being there’ experience and lets your system
shine. My amps still sound like my amps and my speakers still sound
like my speakers and the information coming from them sounds right.
I think that level of rightness will be hard to live without, having
now heard it.

I'm not a writer and have never written a review like this so it might
be all a little matter of fact but please feel free to use it as a
recommendation for you platter. It definitely works well in my modest
system and the better the system, the more I'm sure you will hear.

Do you have any questions about any of that Mike?

Cheers Chris.