New dac up to £350 or so?

[Gromit]

Having been fortunate enough to get a brief listen to one in my rig a couple of weekends ago I'm very close to ordering a new DacMagic+. Whilst my Caiman was a wonderful little device, keeping me very happy for quite some time via its optical and coax inputs, I really want the convenience of async USB (ie as in what the DM+ offers). The DM+ sounded better than the HiFace/Caiman combo, which is some going or the money imho.

I'd like to keep my options open though - the new CA DacMagic 100 looks like it'll be very good (and I dare say broadly similar to the DM+ sonically) but I don't know when it's going to be released - and I'm not the most patient of people. :D

So, what else is there out there up to the stated budget which could fulfil my needs? The rDac could fit the bill but it's been out for a while now, and the onward march of digital/dac technology seems to be progressing at quite a rate these days.

Thanks, as always, for any suggestions. :)

[wee tee cee]

schiit bifrost is a bit over budget but seems to be getting good reviews.

[tubehunter]

i'v had a fair few dacs....

currently got a rdac connected via asyn usb.
24bit 96kz asio4all/foobar from pc, best sound yet!
i tried optical and coax connections, nowhere near as good.

[StanleyB]

currently got a rdac connected via asyn usb.
24bit 96kz asio4all/foobar from pc, best sound yet!
i tried optical and coax connections, nowhere near as good.
That's very worrying. Could it be that the async software is injecting too much extra information into the original audio signal? That might account for the apparent difference in performance.

[roob]

Richard
Are you using a Mac?
If so use a player such as Audirvana or Pure Music which has Integer option in its audio setup, then find a dac that has a usb input than is integer capable, according to CA the Arcam is.
I have just started using this method into the XMOS USB2 interface of my dac and it is a revelation, kicking the ass of optical, spdif and my clock locked transport into the same dac.
I used to have a John Kenny modified Hiface which was very good, the Xmos interface was on a par I thought until I started using integer mode in PM.
You will need to be using an OSX pre Lion as Apple removed integer support in Lion.

[StanleyB]

I have just started using this method into the XMOS USB2 interface of my dac and it is a revelation, kicking the ass of optical, spdif and my clock locked transport into the same dac.
Any chance of giving a breakdown of what the improvements were? i.e. was the bass more solid, or the treble warmer, etc.?

[roob]

I am pretty crap at describing things in hifi terms but here goes.
Everything is much clearer in the mix, you can now pinpoint where each musician is in the mix, bass is not deeper just better defined and textured. I have been listening to Superbass Live by Ray Brown, three stand up bass players playing together and you can follow each one playing a slightly different melody with each bass exhibiting a different tone and position in the mix, one left, one right and one centre it was quite uncanny.
Female vocals such as the well produced Patricia Barber albums are so lifelike now and are almost"in the room"
I have tried OSX Lion/ PM without integer support and it is not a patch on SL/PM with integer.
This guy on CA sums it up better than I can

- Everything is more musical, for example a piano sounds like a piano.

- Soundstage width and depth has a huge improvement.

- Every instrument has his place in the soundstage.

- Zero distortion (only when there is distortion in the recording).

- No listening fatigue at all.
Your milage may vary of course but if your dac has a XMOS usb interface then its a no brainer

[Welder]

Good bit of kit that XMOS USB2 interface. ;)

[roob]

John
I did not realise how good until this week.
I was an early adopter of Lion so I was unable to use integer mode in PM.
A couple of days ago the HD in my Macbook went tits up so I replaced the drive and installed my old Snow Leopard discs with integer support and I am glad I did, no way will I be "upgrading" again to Lion despite its other nice features unless Apple reinstate integer support.

[Krisbee]

Richard
Are you using a Mac?
If so use a player such as Audirvana or Pure Music which has Integer option in its audio setup, then find a dac that has a usb input than is integer capable, according to CA the Arcam is.
I have just started using this method into the XMOS USB2 interface of my dac and it is a revelation, kicking the ass of optical, spdif and my clock locked transport into the same dac.
I used to have a John Kenny modified Hiface which was very good, the Xmos interface was on a par I thought until I started using integer mode in PM.
You will need to be using an OSX pre Lion as Apple removed integer support in Lion.

Roob which DA are you using? A DAC with XMOS USB audio class 2 chip, good firmware, galvanic isolation etc at £350 would be worth thinking about ...

Gromit,

What about using a dfferent USB to SPDIF convertor into the Caiman? The latest MF V-link 192 is, I think, based on the XMOS chip.

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-LINK-192/v-link-192.asp

There's also a cheaper cyp device, the cyp au-d160

http://www.digitalaudioblog.com/2011/10/cyp-au-d160.html

The convenience of Stan's DACs are hard beat: heaphone amp, fixed and variable out etc ... I wonder what features Stan caould produce in a £350 priced product. Better power supply/regulation and asynch USB would be on a lot of people's wish list.

[roob]

Chris, I am using a Chevron Audio Paradox Deluxe Dac, the XMOS interface was a later addition at my request, the dac cost a lot more than £350 though.
I think Gromit has already tried a usb/coax convertor with a Caiman.

[webby]

The convenience of Stan's DACs are hard beat: heaphone amp, fixed and variable out etc ... I wonder what features Stan caould produce in a £350 priced product. Better power supply/regulation and asynch USB would be on a lot of people's wish list.
I don't think stan's going to implement asynchronous USB in his DAC's, he's clearly against it.

[bobbasrah]

I don't think stan's going to implement asynchronous USB in his DAC's, he's clearly against it.

So far.......;)

[roob]

I don't think stan's going to implement asynchronous USB in his DAC's, he's clearly against it.
Not having it will reduce any dacs appeal to potential customers.

[StanleyB]

The convenience of Stan's DACs are hard beat: heaphone amp, fixed and variable out etc ... I wonder what features Stan caould produce in a £350 priced product. Better power supply/regulation and asynch USB would be on a lot of people's wish list.
If you ignore the variable output and USB, the Bushmaster will be a good benchmark of where I am heading in terms of the accuracy in reproducing the converted digital data into an analogue one. Unfortunately I cannot quite get myself to thread the more expensive routes to get there. I still prefer to seek out the most cost effective method. So yes, I would use a readily available hammer to crack a nut, instead of popping out to the shop and invest in a new nutcracker. The ultimate aim is that the nut should be exposed with little or no damage, irrespective of the method used to get to it.
That is no different from trying to get the most out of an audio track. Especially so when many of us have to keep one eye on our finances, and one ear on the wife's inquisitive tongue. So a £350 price tag is not my immediate priority right now. What is of importance to me though is that
1. I don't leave many or any of the individual digital bits present in the audio track unaccounted for in the final audio reproduction.
2. I don't place any decoded bit in the wrong location within the 3D soundstage.
3. I don't tamper with the frequency response and phase of the audio signal.
How much better I have become in those objectives I shall have to leave to my peers to judge when the Bushmaster is finally released.

As for async: I still maintain that the perceived advantages are just snake oil. All that talk about async removing jitter and increasing clock accuracy would only work, if it did, in an I2S stage. But the majority of DACs have a receiver IC like the CS8416 or WM8804. Their job is to do exactly the same as what async is supposed to do for jitter. As a matter of fact, these receiver chips are even classified in terms of their jitter performance. But the great jitter busting miracle that goes by the name of async USB cannot quote its own jitter performance. Have a think about that one ;).

[bobbasrah]

Usb (halide, hiface, etc), Optical, Coaxial, etc., all appear to have positive and negative camps, but most progress does appear in the I2S and USB camps. The design and implementation of DAC's is also getting more refined, and prices are generally falling other than at the the esoteric end of the market.
Should be an interesting year if the chinese get their QC up to snuff....

[Welder]

I've got an XMOS board hanging off the front of my Buffalo 11.

(The Buffalo; yet another of those buys on rave reviews, only to find the reviewers were deaf, upgrades)

The above may be a little unfair because there are a number Dac configurations, but considering the cost when casing, power supplies and connections are taken into account, I'm not convinced the performance warrants the expense and time. Replacing the USB receiver with the XMOS and hooking up my linear regulated USB power supply has improved things, but I'm still left with an indifferent output stage.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that its the often repeated re-sampling in file audio that is the fly in the ointment and jitter, which would seem to require esoteric and expensive cables and data transfer methods to overcome, :eyebrows: is adequately dealt with by most competently built Dacs.

For re-sampling asynchronous Dacs in this price range I still think the HRT 11+ takes some beating.

In the £500 range I would probably go for the Metrum NOS Dac purely on the fact that it doesn't oversample and uses a relatively unknown chip in audiophile circles or for the traditionalists, perhaps the Rega.
To my ears the Dacs I've heard, even some pretty expensive ones, while sounding slightly different to each other don't sound noticeably better, but then I think that about a lot of HI FI. :D

[Gromit]

Thanks for all the input and ideas chaps - lots of stuff I've never even heard of (hardly susprising with me being a digital know-nothing!) but that's good. :)

I presently have my eye on a nearly-new DM+ but if that falls through I'll be out doing more research - I also see M2Tech have a new affordable DAC out now which looks promising. Slightly limited on its inputs but obviously if it sounds really good.... :)

[Welder]

Thanks for all the input and ideas chaps - lots of stuff I've never even heard of (hardly susprising with me being a digital know-nothing!) but that's good. :)

I presently have my eye on a nearly-new DM+ but if that falls through I'll be out doing more research - I also see M2Tech have a new affordable DAC out now which looks promising. Slightly limited on its inputs but obviously if it sounds really good.... :)

I'll prolly get disproving looks from the more sensitive contributors and comprehensively blanked, but I cant help wondering if getting know a a bit about digital audio before you part with your cash might be prudent. ;)

The "ask for a few recommendations on a forum" strategy seems a bit like marrying a women who is a total stranger because your mate said she was a good shag. :D

[roob]

That little M2tech dac really needs to be coupled with the EVO interface though then you are into £600+ territory, John Kenny's dac would be cheaper
http://sites.google.com/site/hifacemods/home/hiface-dac
Have you seen the DM+ for sale on pfm? the guy who is selling is a good guy, I have purchased off him in the past.

[bobbasrah]

That little M2tech dac really needs to be coupled with the EVO interface though then you are into £600+ territory, John Kenny's dac would be cheaper
http://sites.google.com/site/hifacemods/home/hiface-dac
Have you seen the DM+ for sale on pfm? the guy who is selling is a good guy, I have purchased off him in the past.

And way less complicated or expensive than John's example.....:lol:

[synsei]

The "ask for a few recommendations on a forum" strategy seems a bit like marrying a women who is a total stranger because your mate said she was a good shag.

HAHAHAHA, that's classic John!!! :D

[Cans]

I think you have to compare the rdac and the dacmagic plus for.that sort of money. Do you need a quality headphone output too tho? The Caiman has a far better headphone output than the dacmagic + ,but you can go from the digital coax out of this to the dig coax in of the Caiman with very good results.

[wee tee cee]

I had a great day at Ali Tates place having a bit of a play with cables/amps and dacs. We had a v -link in play with a mark grant wtb/supra co-ax.
I took my mf m1, Ali had an array of lovely DACs ranging from an off song valve hybrid, audio note valve hybrid DAC, and chinese £60 job.
My personal preference was the audio note, however the chinese cheapy was uncomfortably good (no usb, co-ax optical only).
My own MF M1 I prefer to the dac majic ( which my son has adopted),gatorised caiman and a rega which I had for a weekend and really didn't synergise with my system at all.
Horses for courses, but I would seriously consider some of the cheaper left field choices.
Tony.

[bobbasrah]

Would Ali's trio have the first off-song hybrid being the chinese dac with valve stage, and the third be the same chinese DAC, only original ?

[Ali Tait]

Yes, the first is the one Nick built for me using the AK4396 dac board from Ebay. Seems one problem with it is the Sowter output trannies don't perform to their claimed specs. Nick has ordered some O'Netics trannies from Bud Purvine which will address the problem. I have been fiddling with it, and have managed to get it sounding pretty good again, though still not as good as it has sounded in the past. At it's best it was superb, as good or better than anything else I've heard. nick has several other ideas to try though, including fully regulated supplies for the board, and also for the valve output stage. It'll need to go in a bigger box though!

You're correct again with the third being a stock built version, only thing I've changed is the SPDIF input cap. Personally I thought it sounded at least as good if not a little better than Tony's M1, sounding a little warmer and more analogue - like to my ears. Just down to personal preference though. A good result given the low cost. No USB input though, but given the low cost, a V link or similar would still give a great usb dac for little money. Nowt to touch it at the price and a fair bit more IMHO.

[bobbasrah]

Clear enough Ali.
I'm sure Nick will do the business on the hybrid, and you will be gobsmacked all over again.
Still tracking that little DAC's progress re mods, along with one other, but as usual it is difficult to choose with all the hyperbole spinning. Stupid really as the cost of the one you have is peanuts (not the one with the bottles obviously).
Interesting, your observation on Tony's DAC though.

[Ali Tait]

Well I think it just shows how good this AK4396 board is. The chip has been used in some pricey commercial kit.

[jandl100]

... I cant help wondering if getting to know a bit about digital audio before you part with your cash might be prudent. ;)


Amidst this ever-growing tsunami of uber-geek technobabble, a little knowledge would be far worse than none, I suspect! :D

At least Richard knows that he understands nowt, rather than kidding himself that he's a bit of an expert! :eyebrows:

[so speaks an anti-streaming old fogey :lol:]

[DSJR]

I'm concerned about the comments on the Sowter transformers!!!!! if they're not to spec, then they should be sent back pronto for checking. Sowter are far too well respected for them to just send out any old cr@p to their customers. The two very expensive (and complex) Rega phono stages use them I notice and, at the prices charged for these two devices, they would have had a choice of what transformers to use.

[Canetoad]

Ali,

Out of curiosity, do you have any idea how the AK4396 DAC compares to a CA DacMagic? :scratch:

[Ali Tait]

Sorry, no, but Tony said earlier he preferred his M1 to the Dacmagic, and I slightly preferred the 4396 to the M1. Make of that what you will. Just MHO.

[Canetoad]

Sounds good! Certainly for the price they go for anyway. :)

Thanks Ali. :cool:

[Ali Tait]

Only thing is it doesn't have the features of the M1.

[wee tee cee]

Ali,
I was of the same opinion as yourself the chinese jobbie did sound more analogue than the mf m1. It was more even keel sonically. Did it sound better....to my ears ....yeah.
Smoother, warmer no detail loss....less attack, for attacks sake....
Tony.

[Ali Tait]

Aye, it seems to be a signature sound of the chip. Depends what your personal preference is I guess. Neither was better really, it's just whatever type of sound you prefer. It does show the VFM though. As we said at the time, given decent dacs, there's not that much between them.

[wee tee cee]

I would agree....The ca dac magic is a great wee dac but not really pushing the boat out sonically.
I find it more wooly, bass laden and treble skewed than the mf m1. A whole host of detail is a also missing.
Ali, any chance of a link to your giant killer, I may have to pull the trigger one one...purely for research purposes you understand!!!!!

[Ali Tait]

Aye sure -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-AK4396-DAC-2496-CS8416-24BIT-192K-DAC-Decoder-Board-Transformer-Case-/110811189717?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ccdc91d5

Hmm, seems to have gone up a bit. Maybe the word has got round!
I'd hang on and wait for more to come up. There's more than one seller. Or alternatively, buy the board and trannie and source your own case.

[bobbasrah]

Aye sure -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-AK4396-DAC-2496-CS8416-24BIT-192K-DAC-Decoder-Board-Transformer-Case-/110811189717?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ccdc91d5

Hmm, seems to have gone up a bit. Maybe the word has got round!
I'd hang on and wait for more to come up. There's more than one seller. Or alternatively, buy the board and trannie and source your own case.

It certainly has gone up, almost double, and the p&p has gone up also..... The sellers must be capitalising on the demand and interest around...:rolleyes: If this was the tweaked version as developed on diyaudio, it might justify the price difference though.... A waiting game it seems.....;)

What I have found very surprising in all this reading is the extent to which many of the more advanced tinkerers, even those involved in the pre-launch phase, are not excited at all about the newer DACs, even the more expensive ones in the test phases... :scratch:
Most of the attention appears to be in the components and layouts of the older DACs, and input/ouput variations, with a intruiging number promoting valve stages.:)

[Canetoad]

You could try here. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110712416420?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

[bobbasrah]

Looks the same Bernie, good find....
Really do wonder just how much different he sound is that the mods (diyaudio) to these boards make, as I think Ali had the original unmodified version, or is that incorrect?.
Most of the parts on the board are replaced on that forum thread, which is a real PITA unless starting with the kit then buying the bits, case, traffo etc.. Don't know if all the bits minus assembly are available....
Surprised nobody is doing a custom ready assembled job based on the upgraded parts considering the interest....

[wee tee cee]

Thanks Ali.....Its creeping towards bushmaster money, think I might hang fire.

[Ammonite Audio]

Having been fortunate enough to get a brief listen to one in my rig a couple of weekends ago I'm very close to ordering a new DacMagic+. Whilst my Caiman was a wonderful little device, keeping me very happy for quite some time via its optical and coax inputs, I really want the convenience of async USB (ie as in what the DM+ offers). The DM+ sounded better than the HiFace/Caiman combo, which is some going or the money imho.

I'd like to keep my options open though - the new CA DacMagic 100 looks like it'll be very good (and I dare say broadly similar to the DM+ sonically) but I don't know when it's going to be released - and I'm not the most patient of people. :D

So, what else is there out there up to the stated budget which could fulfil my needs? The rDac could fit the bill but it's been out for a while now, and the onward march of digital/dac technology seems to be progressing at quite a rate these days.

Thanks, as always, for any suggestions. :)

How about the Metrum Quad NOS DAC, which could almost fit into your budget? See http://www.nosminidac.nl/price_list.html . It's the baby brother of the Metrum Octave that has been so warmly received by Martin Colloms and others. I do believe that Paul Hynes has bought a Quad to play with, so maybe he'll pop up and post a few thoughts.

Having heard a few Audio Note NOS DACs recently, I am becoming more and more convinced that, musically, this is the way to go.

[Ali Tait]

Looks the same Bernie, good find....
Really do wonder just how much different he sound is that the mods (diyaudio) to these boards make, as I think Ali had the original unmodified version, or is that incorrect?.
Most of the parts on the board are replaced on that forum thread, which is a real PITA unless starting with the kit then buying the bits, case, traffo etc.. Don't know if all the bits minus assembly are available....
Surprised nobody is doing a custom ready assembled job based on the upgraded parts considering the interest....

I have heard upgraded versions as per the diyaudio thread, and yes, it's worth doing I think.

The board in the valve dac has a couple of components changed, and of course the valve output stage, so the opamp on the board is not used.

The boxed version is still bog standard, though I have some opamps coming to try.

[bobbasrah]

I have heard upgraded versions as per the diyaudio thread, and yes, it's worth doing I think.

The board in the valve dac has a couple of components changed, and of course the valve output stage, so the opamp on the board is not used.

The boxed version is still bog standard, though I have some opamps coming to try.

Fair enough Ali, if the original kit already sounds that good, the modified version is quite intriguing. It has also been interesting to follow the variations required when the assembler incorporated a different DAC (from the same family) to that advertised, but incorporated the incorrect filter. A bit of a lottery with some it seems.

As already said, were a kit or assembled version of the tweaked board etc available I would order it tomorrow, since availability of many things here can be a minefield in comparison to elsewhere. Here is just one recent example, but one which suddenly made me aware of how kids play here, or not....
I was looking for some rubber balls (just less than the diameter of a squash ball) to halve and trial/fit to the adjustable feet of the Thorens' new oak base. Despite living in a major Romanian city, I've failed so far to find any small rubber balls:mental:. Incredibly, they are not to be found here, not even in toyshops!!! :eek: My last hope is the local "Russian Market", an Aladdin's cave of everything imaginable, which I will scour at the weekend.:scratch:

I did find it refreshing to read the differences in tone expressed by you and Tony on the respective DACs.:cool: It is all too frequent that "night and day" differences are claimed, usually falling back on system resolution and cost as reason for subsequent disappointment.:rolleyes:

Good luck with the opamp trials, they do seem to offer a cheap and worthwhile improvement.
:cool:

[alienderivative]

If the US and UK only had an audio mag to match Stan's attitude and approach. What a great contributor to the field. Hang in there, Stan.

[wee tee cee]

Just plumbed in the wee chinese DAC. Well its only played half a dozen tracks but straight away the sonic differences are noticeable in comparison with the mf m1. Seems a bit kinder with female vocals, the sound stage is rock solid in the middle....early days but very Impressive.
At a fifth of the price of the mf I cant complain......Will see how it goes with a couple of hundred hours under its belt.
Tony.

[Ali Tait]

Tony, once it's burned in, buy an OPA627 opamp and swap it in. Well worth it IMHO.

[Mothman]

Sounds promising Tony, now counting the days until mine arrives:whistle:

[wee tee cee]

Tony, once it's burned in, buy an OPA627 opamp and swap it in. Well worth it IMHO.

Ali,
Is it relatively straight forward ie no soldering....my sausage fingers aint up to much detail wise....can twirl a spanner mind...
Tony.

[Ali Tait]

Nope no soldering, the opamp is socketed. Just pull out the old one and insert the new. Making sure it's the right way round of course!

Tell you what, just remembered I have a spare, PM your address and I'll post it off.

[Darren]

Having heard a few Audio Note NOS DACs recently, I am becoming more and more convinced that, musically, this is the way to go.
My Audionote 1.1x DAC is one of very few pieces I regret selling. It was so sweet so open, so damn gorgeous sounding. Lovely.

[wee tee cee]

Nope no soldering, the opamp is socketed. Just pull out the old one and insert the new. Making sure it's the right way round of course!

Tell you what, just remembered I have a spare, PM your address and I'll post it off.

PM sent, there is still scope for me creating a mushroom cloud over the south side of Glasgow though.....
Thanks.

[Ali Tait]

Welcome mate. Don't worry, it's dead easy, give me shout when you're ready to swap and I'll send some pics on how to do it.

[wee tee cee]

You might have to talk me though it, like landing a jumbo jet when both pilots have succumbed to food poisoning and some poor sap straps into the seat.....

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


schiit bifrost is a bit over budget but seems to be getting good reviews.

here’s a recent review of the Schiit Bifrost DAC (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/schiit-bifrost-digital-analog-converter) by Steve Guttenberg from InnerFidelity.

Werner.

[jostber]

Anyone tested the valve dacs like the JOLIDA tube AirWeaver Dac?

http://www.jolida.net/products/jolida%20Airweaver.htm

[Ali Tait]

Not heard those, but I have an Audionote dac Zero, and a dac based around the AK4396 with a valve output stage.

[wee tee cee]

Not heard those, but I have an Audionote dac Zero, and a dac based around the AK4396 with a valve output stage.

Must admit out of the dacs we had a listen to the audionote really caught my imagination. A google search once home did produce a a sharp intake of breath..... the nick modded dac , if on song would have been great to have heard.

[wee tee cee]

Tony,



here’s a recent review of the Schiit Bifrost DAC (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/schiit-bifrost-digital-analog-converter) by Steve Guttenberg from InnerFidelity.

Werner.

Werner,
Good to see you are still keeping an eye on developments.....how is your set up, shaping up.....Is the schitt amp/dac combo and beyers living up to your expectations ?
Regards Tony.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


Is the schitt amp/dac combo and beyers living up to your expectations ?

yes, certainly; I’m very happy with the two Schiit setups in my home. Recently the Valhalla headphone amp (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=2) used in my office setup was replaced by a Lyr amp (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=3), because I need the additional pre-amp function to control the volume of my KRK Rokit 5 (http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/rokit/rokit-5.html) active speakers. That’s the reason why I placed one Valhalla for sale in the Private Exhibitions section (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=299701#post299701) of this forum.

The comfy chair in the library is used as my primary location for serious headphone listening. This audio chain consists of an Apple Airport Express, optical Toslink connection to a Bifrost DAC, a Valhalla tube headphone amplifier and Beyerdynamic T1 (http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/music-pleasure/t-1.html) headphones.

My office setup is another Bifrost DAC connected via Toslink to an Apple iMac, a Lyr headphone amp/pre-amp, a pair of KRK Rokit 5 active speakers plus a KRK 10s subwoofer (http://www.krksys.com/krk-subwoofers/10s.html) and Beyerdynamic DT 990/600 Ω (http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/music-pleasure/dt-990-edition.html) headphones. These Beyers are especially great when watching movies on the computer, but for music alone I think the T1 headphones are superior.

Out of curiosity I plugged my AKG K701 headphones into the Schiit Lyr amplifier. The Lyr is a better match for the AKGs than the Valhalla, but I still don’t like the K701 sound signature in comparision to any model of my Beyers.

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Ali,
Got the op amp through the post, opened up the beast......the origional one is solderd in place. I removed the dac board , all eight connections have a wee blob of solder......It aint for budging....

[Ali Tait]

Are you sure that not just the socket? The opamp itself should just pull out of the socket. If it is soldered it's the first one I know of that is. I have three boards here and all have sockets.

[wee tee cee]

tried a screw driver and pliers......it aint shifting.
Undid the four screws holding the board down and turned it upside down....the wee fucker is soldered in just like all the other components.
The two red upside down handbags next to the op amp might have to go for counselling after the abuse they took.

[bobbasrah]

tried a screw driver and pliers......it aint shifting.
Undid the four screws holding the board down and turned it upside down....the wee fucker is soldered in just like all the other components.
The two red upside down handbags next to the op amp might have to go for counselling after the abuse they took.

Any chance you can get a photo of it up Tony, since all of those I have heard of were indeed on sockets as Ali said...:scratch:

[Ali Tait]

Tony, have a look at these pictures and see if yours is the same. The opamp should be plugged in to the socket, which is soldered to the board.

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/3325/dac1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/815/dac1.jpg/)

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/4205/dac2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/dac2.jpg/)

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3543/dac3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/dac3.jpg/)


You just use a pair of long nose pliers to pull it out and insert the new one. Be careful with the pins, it's easy to miss the holes and bend the pins. It must also go in the correct way. If you look under the socket, there should be a white rectangle drawn on the board. On the edge nearest the outside edge of the board, you will see a semicircle in the white line, as if someone has taken a bite out of it. Have a look at the top of the opamp I sent, and you will see there is a corresponding semi circle stamped into one edge. this needs to go at the same side as the one painted on the board, i.e. towards the outside edge of the board.

[wee tee cee]

Nah,
The op amp in mine is a wee black chip with eight legs placed straight into the board, no socket as such. It is flanked by two wee red upside down handbag shaped things...not the rectangular components in your pictures and having checked the original link they are also rectangular, Feck....looks like I have something else....

[Ali Tait]

Tony, have a look at this ebay listing -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Assembled-DAC-2496-AK4396-CS8416-DAC-Board-24BIT-192K-/110832633177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ce23c559

Diregarding the socket, does this look more like your board?

[wee tee cee]

The basic layout is roughly the same but many of the components are different. My board doesn't have the socketed op amp, all the grey rectangular components are replaced with red rounded ones ( upside down handbags) the other difference is the spdif/ground on mine is soldered to the board, on the link it is a screw in attachment.

[bobbasrah]

The basic layout is roughly the same but many of the components are different. My board doesn't have the socketed op amp, all the grey rectangular components are replaced with red rounded ones ( upside down handbags) the other difference is the spdif/ground on mine is soldered to the board, on the link it is a screw in attachment.

I would try complaining to the seller first Tony. Even the $82 "assembled" one had similar capacitors and all the IOs were screw-block type. You could state that you bought it knowing the op-amp could be changed easily, which it can not be.:scratch:

[Mothman]

Tony, I received the one I 'd ordered yesterday but haven't opened it up yet. I got mine from this seller, don't know if that's where you got yours?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-2496-AK4396-CS8416-DAC-Transformer-case-/120747012438?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3D UA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D110832633177%26ps%3D63%26clk id%3D6693664898513276072

If it helps I can open mine up tonight a take a pic, I too was hoping the OP amp could be changed easily as I'm no good at soldering:(

[Ali Tait]

Looks like you got a different board then Tony. you could try taking it up with the seller and see if you can get another board. Alternatively, the boards themselves are only 20 or so quid, might be worth just buying one.

[bobbasrah]

Looks like you got a different board then Tony. you could try taking it up with the seller and see if you can get another board. Alternatively, the boards themselves are only 20 or so quid, might be worth just buying one.

It looks as if Rich may have the same board perhaps.

Ali, if the chip were desoldered, a dil socket could be fitted assuming the rest of the components were good enough for now. So long as there was no damage to the tracks etc.... The old chip would be getting binned anyway.....;)

[Ali Tait]

Yes that's true, but I don't think Tony is too keen on soldering.

[bobbasrah]

Yes that's true, but I don't think Tony is too keen on soldering.

I understand that Ali, what I was getting at is that IF the board components are otherwise up to spec., it take the cost of a couple of pints to GET IT removed and a socket fitted by someone local.
Cheaper and faster than a replacement board plus P&P plus delay...;)

[Ali Tait]

Yep, I'll do it for him if he wishes.

[wee tee cee]

I will hang fire and see what Rich has under the bonnet....At this moment in time, albeit with minimum burn in Its not setting the world on fire. It lasted two nights before the MF went back in.
I even plumbed it in my sons system with the fiio e10 as a spdif convertor to get it burnt in.....The wee bugger swapped it out and replaced it with the dac magic, he was not a fan.
I will give it some time powered up but as it stands it sounds like a £60 Chinese dac.

[Ali Tait]

Give it some time Tony, you heard mine. Saying that, perhaps because it's a different board it may not sound as good?

[wee tee cee]

I will wait and see what Rich reports back.

[bobbasrah]

It does look like the same board from what I have seen Ali, ie the PCB....
What does not appear to be the same is the capacitors from what you are saying Tony, unless you have a peculiar taste in "handbags"...
If the model you ordered is the same as Bernie and Ali linked to at the time, that does not appear to be what you got !!!
Just as a point of interest what is the DAC chip that is on the board you have Tony, the one that was advertised?
There seem to be 2 different chips fitted on some boards, and there has been quite a bit of talk on diyaudio where the filter combo fitted was for the wrong chip...

[Ali Tait]

There appear to be at least three different types of caps fitted to these boards. just pot luck which you get I think.

[wee tee cee]

I knew this was coming....how do I tell. Is it the minuscule writing on the top of one of the chips?
Must admit the thought that " you pay for what you get", keeps running through my head.

[Canetoad]

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive. I'll let you know what's in it when it does.

[alan47]

I got mine,which looks like the board in Ali's photo's,only the caps are different.
It has been burning in since monday and is sounding better every day,very pleased with it,but can anyone tell me what the 96K blue light means,it only comes on with one radio station.??? It don't mean much to a retired heavy plant mechanic.:wanker:

[wee tee cee]

alan,
are burning it by just powering it up or are you running a signal through it.

[dave2010]

I have tried OSX Lion/ PM without integer support and it is not a patch on SL/PM with integer.

Your milage may vary of course but if your dac has a XMOS usb interface then its a no brainerDon't you just love the way Apple removes some of the better features in the interests of progress as it "updates" its range?

Another reason why I haven't upgraded to Lion is that I still want to run Appleworks/Clarisworks, as I've never found a graphics drawing tool as easy to use as the one in that suite, and I do need to use such tools quite frequently. I suppose I could run Snow Leopard in VirtualBox or VMWare to make that possible, but for the moment it is not a problem to just stick with SL.

I very nearly hit the upgrade button recently in the App store, before realising what problems that would cause me.

[Ali Tait]

I got mine,which looks like the board in Ali's photo's,only the caps are different.
It has been burning in since monday and is sounding better every day,very pleased with it,but can anyone tell me what the 96K blue light means,it only comes on with one radio station.??? It don't mean much to a retired heavy plant mechanic.:wanker:

It lights up when the dac receives a 24/96 file.

[alan47]

Both,i never turn anything off,an old habit left over from being an ex Naim owner,and am listening to it for about five hours a day.I only use NVA amps these days and they seem to sound better if you leave them powered up.
I do use a Temple Audio Bantam gold on my PC system and they say it will burn in if you just leave it turned on.?

[alan47]

It lights up when the dac receives a 24/96 file.

Is this a good thing??:scratch: The station in question is Western Radio,County mayo,could be an IRA plot

[alan47]

Am looking at OPA627's at Farnell,can anyone tell me the difference between 627AP and 627BP apart from £5 price.??

[Ali Tait]

Aye maybe!

[Mothman]

OK, below are a couple of photos of the board in mine. OP amp certainly looks like it's socketed assuming I'm looking at the right thing (black rectangular job with 8 legs in the upper right of the picture):scratch:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/okmothman/Hi-Fi/DAC001.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/okmothman/Hi-Fi/DAC004.jpg

Perhaps Tony could confirm if he used the same ebay seller, as it may be usefull information for anyone else contemplating to buy if two types of board are being supplied?.

I have to say though that the service was first class and mine arrived within 7days, much quicker than expected. So much so that it caught me on the hop as I hadn't got around to ordering a digital cable and so can't use it yet:lol:

Hope this helps

[alan47]

Mine came from along1986090 it looks the same but uses grey suitcases instead of tee cee's red hand bags,it also took four weeks to arrive,but i blame the chinese new year for that..

[Ali Tait]

Rich, yes that's the opamp.

Alan, that's the same seller I got mine from.

[alan47]

Thanks Ali, but which one??? AP or BP

[Mothman]

Mine came from along1986090 it looks the same but uses grey suitcases instead of tee cee's red hand bags,it also took four weeks to arrive,but i blame the chinese new year for that..

Same seller as mine. Let's hope red handbags don't mean poor sound:eek:

I checked the lettering on the dac chip and the op amp and they match those the seller shows in his ebay photo, it's the caps that appear to have changed.

[alan47]

It might mean better sound....

[Ali Tait]

Thanks Ali, but which one??? AP or BP

I got mine from Along.

[Ali Tait]

Same seller as mine. Let's hope red handbags don't mean poor sound:eek:

I checked the lettering on the dac chip and the op amp and they match those the seller shows in his ebay photo, it's the caps that appear to have changed.

I don't think there's much difference between them, at least for the socketed versions.

[Mothman]

Am looking at OPA627's at Farnell,can anyone tell me the difference between 627AP and 627BP apart from £5 price.??

Ali, I think Alan wants to know which op amp he needs, me too:)

[Ali Tait]

These are the ones I bought-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-BB-OPA627-OPA627AU-SOIC-DIP-adapter-/320824420467?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab2a02873

[Mothman]

Thanks Ali :thumbsup:

[Ali Tait]

Thanks Ali, but which one??? AP or BP

I'd just buy the cheaper. From what I've read there's no sonic difference.

[Ali Tait]

These are the ones I bought-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-BB-OPA627-OPA627AU-SOIC-DIP-adapter-/320824420467?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab2a02873

They do come from China and were cheap, so they may be fake!

do sound good though.

[Ali Tait]

Been reading further and it may be worth going for the B grade opamp. It seems this gives much less DC offset, which may be worthwhile as this may be the reason I'm getting switching thumps when I switch my pre on and off when the dac is on, and also when I move the selector switch. I now suspect this might be down to dc offset on the dac output because of the cheap opamp.

[wee tee cee]

Ali,
I dont have any use for the op amp, do you want me to send it back to yourself or spread the love and forward it onto one of the troops.
Tony.

[Canetoad]

I'd like to give it a try when mine arrives. :eyebrows:

[wee tee cee]

Bernie,
Ali was generous enough to send it to myself, If he green lights it I will send on to your self.
Tony.

[Canetoad]

Excellent! I can always drop it back off to Ali afterwards too. :lol:

[wee tee cee]

What is the consensus sonically, I seem to have went through a horrible sibilant period with a recessed midrange onto something far more agreeable. My bugbear is sibilance with female vocals which seems to be improving with burn in...

[alan47]

Been listening for five days now and not a hint of sibilance yet,Diana Krall sounds like she is in my sitting room..(some hope of that):D

[Ali Tait]

Ali,
I dont have any use for the op amp, do you want me to send it back to yourself or spread the love and forward it onto one of the troops.
Tony.


Sure, send it on, though there may be a problem with these. Mine let out a horrible crack and one channel went down last night. I thought it was the amp at first, but it's the dac. I haven't had a chance to look yet, but I'm guessing it may be the opamp. When I get a chance I will put the original back in and that will let me know for certain. I will let youse know.

[Ali Tait]

Been listening for five days now and not a hint of sibilance yet,Diana Krall sounds like she is in my sitting room..(some hope of that):D


Naah, she's in mine! :lol:

[alan47]

I have just read a twelve page thread on Head-fi about fake OPA627's.It seems to be that the ones from farnells or digikey are the only real ones.I guess you get what you pay for,as usual.Hope your's recovers Ali.

[alan47]

Naah, she's in mine! :lol:

Dream on,the swine that ye are...:ner:

[wee tee cee]

Speaking of fat drunks...John Martyn seems to be stuck in my fireplace between my speakers.... I can almost understand him....

[Ali Tait]

I have just read a twelve page thread on Head-fi about fake OPA627's.It seems to be that the ones from farnells or digikey are the only real ones.I guess you get what you pay for,as usual.Hope your's recovers Ali.


Yes, I've ordered a "B" from RS, so at least I'll know it's real. £37 though, nearly the cost of the dac!

[wee tee cee]

I seem to have an issue with hiss....It seems to only rear its head when the dac has been playing for a while.....A noticeable discharge from the tweeter. I'm ashamed to say I couldn't hear it, until it was pointed out by my wife and son. I may have destroyed aspects of my hearing riding motorbikes for years...
It does indeed sound more analogue.....even down to the hiss on the record.

[Ali Tait]

Hmm, wonder if that is down to the opamp used? Mine is silent.

[alan47]

So is mine,but that could be down to riding a Harley with 2" open drag pipes round Scotland for twenty years.Even my Sr325i's sound smooth..:lol:

[Ali Tait]

Tony, do you get switch on and off thumps when you turn the dac on and off with the rest of the system on?

[alan47]

Yes, I've ordered a "B" from RS, so at least I'll know it's real. £37 though, nearly the cost of the dac!

Should be interesting to hear what you think about the sound of that..

[Ali Tait]

Aye, hopefully it'll be an improvement!

[Canetoad]

Just received mine in the post. Plugged it in and it cuts in and out. Cheap power cable is the culprit.

Opened it up and op amp is not soldered in so easy to replace.

I've plugged it in and letting it burn in. I must say it does sound pretty good right out of the box. :)

[wee tee cee]

Tony, do you get switch on and off thumps when you turn the dac on and off with the rest of the system on? Nope,
But I get a strange hiss like its letting the steam out the case when I switch it off....When I was pissing about with the dac board trying to figure WTF with the red hand bags against grey/ blue suit cases, I thought I had solved the hissing by re-routing the wiring a bit.....One wire appeared to be a bit melted as if it had been sitting on a hot component.
Last night It was definitely doing something special, but the longer I use it the more it generates hiss from the treble.....The MF remains inky black quiet.
Their is definitely something magical lurking in this chip implementation, Its just not there quality wise yet.
Re-visiting the pictures of the various boards my big caps and other capacitors seem to be different colours.....ho hum

[Ali Tait]

Aye, I think you've bummed out on the board. Have you tried mailing the seller?

[audioquiz]

Having been fortunate enough to get a brief listen to one in my rig a couple of weekends ago I'm very close to ordering a new DacMagic+. Whilst my Caiman was a wonderful little device, keeping me very happy for quite some time via its optical and coax inputs, I really want the convenience of async USB (ie as in what the DM+ offers). The DM+ sounded better than the HiFace/Caiman combo, which is some going or the money imho.

I'd like to keep my options open though - the new CA DacMagic 100 looks like it'll be very good (and I dare say broadly similar to the DM+ sonically) but I don't know when it's going to be released - and I'm not the most patient of people. :D

So, what else is there out there up to the stated budget which could fulfil my needs? The rDac could fit the bill but it's been out for a while now, and the onward march of digital/dac technology seems to be progressing at quite a rate these days.

Thanks, as always, for any suggestions. :)

complete rubbish in my opion mind you i drunk at mo, but if you look at stans caiman it will tell you if you can solder what to put on the board, look at were it says mlcr means mylar capacitor, or polystyrene? replace these with some good electrolytics and your away. i hope this helps you. please don't be horrid to me like i say i drunk at mo , i just a beginner aswell lol

[audioquiz]

Having been fortunate enough to get a brief listen to one in my rig a couple of weekends ago I'm very close to ordering a new DacMagic+. Whilst my Caiman was a wonderful little device, keeping me very happy for quite some time via its optical and coax inputs, I really want the convenience of async USB (ie as in what the DM+ offers). The DM+ sounded better than the HiFace/Caiman combo, which is some going or the money imho.

I'd like to keep my options open though - the new CA DacMagic 100 looks like it'll be very good (and I dare say broadly similar to the DM+ sonically) but I don't know when it's going to be released - and I'm not the most patient of people. :D

So, what else is there out there up to the stated budget which could fulfil my needs? The rDac could fit the bill but it's been out for a while now, and the onward march of digital/dac technology seems to be progressing at quite a rate these days.

Thanks, as always, for any suggestions. :)
here's something else to think about what else you use? what amp , what intererconnects what speaker cable? upgtrade these very important, would love to know what stan is using?

[Canetoad]

Sure, send it on, though there may be a problem with these. Mine let out a horrible crack and one channel went down last night. I thought it was the amp at first, but it's the dac. I haven't had a chance to look yet, but I'm guessing it may be the opamp. When I get a chance I will put the original back in and that will let me know for certain. I will let youse know.

No need to send it on.

I ordered an OPA627 today for mine. They're a bit expensive aren't they? :steam: Looking forward to seeing what sort of difference it makes and if it's worth the expense.

I have the DAC connected to the bedroom system at the moment. I'll run it through my main system after it's had more time to burn in. I'm looking forward to comparing it to my modified Caiman.

[MartinT]

If the US and UK only had an audio mag to match Stan's attitude and approach. What a great contributor to the field.

Agreed Don, Stan's products are excellent and he is a true gent to deal with. Welcome to AoS, by the way :)

[Ali Tait]

No need to send it on.

I ordered an OPA627 today for mine. They're a bit expensive aren't they? :steam: Looking forward to seeing what sort of difference it makes and if it's worth the expense.

I have the DAC connected to the bedroom system at the moment. I'll run it through my main system after it's had more time to burn in. I'm looking forward to comparing it to my modified Caiman.

Got mine today and have it fitted. will post some impressions later.

[Canetoad]

Ali, did you find that the OPA627 has a lot less gain than the opamp it replaces? :scratch:

[Ali Tait]

No not really, though I was changing from a probable fake 627.

[Canetoad]

Well, my OPA627 is definitely quieter than the NE5532 it came with by quite a bit. I put the old op amp back in and the volume is pretty much the same as my Caiman. With the OPA627 in it drops by at least a few dB.

Can somebody who has both check and let me know if you have the same symptom? It may be normal. I want to make sure as £23 is a lot to pay for a dud! :doh:

[MartinT]

Puzzling, as the negative feedback loop should determine in-circuit gain and not the op-amp itself.

[Mothman]

These Chinese DAC's would appear to be something of a crap shoot. I've now got mine up and running and have to say that straight out of the box it's nothing special, and currently sounds inferior to the built in DAC's in both my Touch and old Rotel CD player:(.

I will perservere listening for a week to see if things improve but at the moment I can't say that it was £80 well spent (today the nice man from FedEx sent me an additional bill for £13.63):doh:

[Ali Tait]

They need a good 200 hours to give of their best.

[Mothman]

They need a good 200 hours to give of their best.:eek:

Ali, was the improvement in your DAC substantial over the 200hrs, or are we talking subtle changes here? Also did you use it for a period with the supplied op amp?

[Ali Tait]

Yes and Yes, I used it for quite a while with the stock opamp. It was stock when Tony visited and we found it was better than his MF dac. The proper 627 has made a further improvement. I have also changed the Digi input cap a while back for a better Wima, which also helped matters.

[alan47]

Mothman,
You could be right about the crap shoot.I am using mine as it came,not touched it.Took about 50hrs to sound better than the touch without it.
Not impressed for the first few hours though.

[wee tee cee]

I dont trust mine enough to leave it on unsupervised...dont fancy immolating the family. Mind you, it might improve sonically!!!!!!!

[alan47]

You got me worried now,mine's been on for twelve days .Best i pop in to B&Q and get a smoke alarm. :eek:
I put an NVA Super Sound Pipe digital i/c between the touch and dac last night.Now we're getting somewhere..
As a pirate would say, a vast improvement..!

[Mothman]

I dont trust mine enough to leave it on unsupervised...dont fancy immolating the family. Mind you, it might improve sonically!!!!!!!

Me neither, last night I thought I would leave mine burning in overnight and then 1/2 hour after going to bed I had exactly the same thought as you and so got up again and swiched it off:lol:. I guess I'll just have to be patient:popcorn:

[wee tee cee]

gives a whole new meaning to burning in.......

[Ali Tait]

:lol:

[Reid Malenfant]

Puzzling, as the negative feedback loop should determine in-circuit gain and not the op-amp itself.
My thoughts to, there should be zero difference in volume levels swapping out op-amps. It's the resistors in the circuit that determine the gain as you rightly point out..

[Ali Tait]

Unless perhaps the opamp originally fitted is a fake and wasn't to spec?

[Reid Malenfant]

It would suggest that there was something amiss somewhere - yes ;)

[Ali Tait]

I was getting some dc offset on the output with the fake 627's from fleabay, now cured with the genyouwine article from RS.

[Mothman]

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but does the DAC need to be connected to an output for the burn in process to take place, or will it still happen if it is only connected to a digital input source such as a CD player but without output to amp or speakers?

At the moment mine sounds really poor and I can't imagine listening to it for the next 100hrs in the hope that it may improve and so was looking for alternative ways of burning it in without having it in my system:scratch:

[Reid Malenfant]

It should burn in with nothing connected as the whole thing will still be running even if it doesn't have a pre amp as a load. There should still be some kind of resistor from the output to ground which should be load enough.

[Mothman]

Thanks Mark, that is good news :)

[Ali Tait]

Surprised it sounds so poor out of the box. Mine sounded good from the off, and just got better. Guess it's just pot luck on the boards, though I've three and all sound good.

[Canetoad]

I bought the op amp from Farnells. I rang them and told them I thought it might be faulty. A replacement arrived this afternoon and it's exactly the same!

I put the standard one back in. Something weird going on there. :scratch:

[Ali Tait]

What does the dac sound like with the original opamp?

[Reid Malenfant]

I bought the op amp from Farnells. I rang them and told them I thought it might be faulty. A replacement arrived this afternoon and it's exactly the same!

I put the standard one back in. Something weird going on there. :scratch:
What did you say the standard op-amp was, was it an NE5532?

Well it's a standard dual op-amp that can supply some current as I should imagine the OPA can. The gain will be decided by the feedback resistors from the output to the inverting input & to ground. Or in the case of an inverting configuration between the resistors between the output to input & the resistor feeding the input.

The NE5532 is designed to run with low value resistors or low impedances on the input to give the lowest noise. Not sure about the OPA, but it may well work well with a higher impedance input, but it still doesn't change the fact that the resistors in the circuit used around the op-amp will or should at least control the gain.

[MartinT]

Knowing OPA627s well (I used them to upgrade an old Pioneer CD player), they sound very much better than NE5532s, so something is wrong somewhere :scratch:

[Ali Tait]

Yes, I'm certainly getting an improvement with my 627. I do have three good sounding dac boards, but I did have one that just didn't sound right in the valve dac. Mucked about with it a bit, but it never did come right. It may be Bernie just has a duff board. They are only £15 on the bay, so might be worth trying another.

[Canetoad]

What does the dac sound like with the original opamp?

Sounds OK. I only have it in the bedroom system at the moment. The Caiman with modified Gator board sounds better though. I'll leave it run in for a bit longer and see what happens.

With the OPA627 in I have to crank up the volume to get some dynamics out of it. Doesn't seem to sound any better really.

Ali, I could drop the op amp off and you could see what it does in yours if you want.

[Canetoad]

I might try plugging a 4562 in tomorrow and see if I have the same issues.

[Ali Tait]

Yes, that might be a good idea. In fact, bring the dac and we could compare it to mine, and we could try the opamp in both.

You free this weekend?

[Canetoad]

Busy in the mornings both days. Probably free in the afternoons though. PM me atime Ali and I'll drop round. :)

[Canetoad]

What did you say the standard op-amp was, was it an NE5532?

Sorry Mark, yes it is.

Great to hear from you again mate! :)

[Ali Tait]

Aye, a 5332. Assuming it's a real one!

[Reid Malenfant]

Cheers Bernie, actually while the NE5532 may well be old, it's in no way a piece of crap :eyebrows: When the thing was first introduced it was a revelation as it uses nesting differential feedback loops & out performed just about everything out there. There will still be situations where this chip will be king for the money, believe me...

Yeah it's good to natter on about total cobblers (or not) once more :lol:

Good idea to compare with Alis, hope you get things squared up fella.

[Ali Tait]

Yes agreed Mark, it often gets slated, but I think that's partly down to how commonly it's used. It doesn't sound poor at all in this application.

[Canetoad]

Yeah it's good to natter on about total cobblers (or not) once more :lol:

Your cobblers sound a lot more interesting than my cobblers! :ner:

[Ali Tait]

I had apple cobbler for pudding tonight..

[Canetoad]

Well, I took my DAC to Ali's place yesterday and plugged it into his system. With the standard op amp it played the same volume as his version. With my OPA627 the volume dropped off. Ali put his OPA627 into my DAC and the same thing happened. It's definitely not the chip. There's something going on with my board and I haven't a clue what it is.

Having said all that Ali's system sounded great! OBs definitely have an open and detailed sound about them. It was the first time I've actually experienced the speakers "disappearing"!

A thoroughly enjoyable afternoon! Thanks Ali! :)

I tried to swap the DACs over on my way out but was spotted. :doh: :lol:

[Ali Tait]

Welcome Bernie, it was an enjoyable afternoon, shame time was tight, we'll have to do it again when you've more time.

Hope you're enjoying the AN dac. How does it compare to the Caiman?

[Canetoad]

Sorry I haven't been using it Ali. The missus is studying so I'm listening to some music on headphones at the moment. I'll have a listen to it over the next few days and then put the Caiman back and see what I hear. :eyebrows:

[Ali Tait]

Ok, let me know what you think.

[icehockeyboy]

Sorry, I haven't looked through the whole thread, hence me asking if you got sorted with a dac?

I ask because I am thinking of parting with my beloved Theta Pro ProGeny "A".:(

[alan47]

Has anyone here heard the Keces DA 131 MK3,it's the right price for this thread and has the inputs that i need,plus it seems to be less of a crapshoot than most stuff from China.

[StanleyB]

The Keces is from Taiwan if I am not mistaken.

[alan47]

That's a relief,even less of a crapshoot.;)
PS,still searching for the elusive Bushmaster for my main system.

[StanleyB]

PS,still searching for the elusive Bushmaster for my main system.
I hear you :).

[alan47]

Would make a rather nice 65th birthday present,(April 15th).Hint hint....
Her indoors could'nt refuse me .:kiss:

[StanleyB]

I had a word with my production team and it seems that we left out one important time span :doh:. As it is a new electronics product it has to go for CE and other approval testing before I can legally sell it. That will add a couple of weeks to the planned launch date, because we have to wait our turn in the queue from the test house. I'll keep the release date updated, but it looks like early May before I get the all clear to start packing and shipping.

[alan47]

O well, i will just have to make do with one of Mark's coax cables for a birthday present instead.At least i will be ready then..Not quite the same thou'.:drool:

[alan47]

Nah,
The op amp in mine is a wee black chip with eight legs placed straight into the board, no socket as such. It is flanked by two wee red upside down handbag shaped things...not the rectangular components in your pictures and having checked the original link they are also rectangular, Feck....looks like I have something else....

I have just opened up my AK4396 Dac to change the opamp and it is the same as Tony's .I thought my chip puller was busted,then i saw solder on the legs,must get some new glasses,i didn't even see that there was no socket.:doh:
I contacted the seller last night,he was very apologetic,and has promised to send me a new dac board.Give it a go Tony,i am sure you can talk Ali into fitting it for you.:rolleyes:
Regarding different caps,he said it was to improve the sound,but he would say that wouldn't he.We shall see..

[bobbasrah]

I have just opened up my AK4396 Dac to change the opamp and it is the same as Tony's .I thought my chip puller was busted,then i saw solder on the legs,must get some new glasses,i didn't even see that there was no socket.:doh:
I contacted the seller last night,he was very apologetic,and has promised to send me a new dac board.Give it a go Tony,i am sure you can talk Ali into fitting it for you.:rolleyes:
Regarding different caps,he said it was to improve the sound,but he would say that wouldn't he.We shall see..

Hopefully the replacement board will arrive with the socket fitted.:cool:

I doubt the seller will want the old board back, and if so, when it arrives and you get the board replaced, you could perhaps desolder and fit a socket in place of the opamp on the old board, and try the mods on that marathon thread over at http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/186245-dac-2496-ak4393-dac-kit-cs8416-ak4393-5532-a.html ?;)

[alan47]

I will certainly have a go at that.Mind you i don't hold out much hope,after a working life mending 30 ton volvo dumpers,i find anything smaller than a cement mixer a bit hard to focus on.:lol: