View Full Version : Improving a Wireless Network?
Our new SB Touch which is currently doing duties in the kitchen system only gets a wireless signal between 35%-50%, it also keeps losing connection with the server during periods in standby but have yet to prove whether this is a wireless problem or not. The Touch is in a diagonal opposite corner of the house from the router which is about 50ft away from the router and I would guess the signal has to pass through 3 walls. I am not aware of any neighbouring networks that conflict with ours but we do have a wireless phone and a microwave. I have already tried switching router channels but this makes no difference.
Question is, is the current signal strength likely to be affecting sound quality and if so what would you recommend to increase signal strength? Buy a new router or would a signal repeater be a better option or maybe even look at tweaking the existing router somehow:scratch:? Current router is a Buffalo WZR2-G300N and broadband is Virgin Media cable.
Cheers
Covenant
18-01-2012, 21:21
No chance of installing an ethernet cable?
Unfortunately not Jerry, it's got be wireless
Homeplugs perhaps? I've heard that they work well sometimes, although I have no experience of them myself.
In theory signal strength shouldn't make any difference with digital transmission - the info is either transmitted or it isn't.
In theory signal strength shouldn't make any difference with digital transmission - the info is either transmitted or it isn't.
From experiencing regular drop-outs with my old SB3, I'd agree and I was getting 85-90% signal strength. It seems doing 2 wireless 'hops' is never ideal and one of those hops should be via a wired connection, and sadly I couldn't achieve that in our place. :(
You already have a router with MIMO (three aerials) and wireless-n, so there's no real chance of improving things with a new router. Packets do get dropped quite a lot with wireless and, while they are re-sent preserving the data, there is considerable lag which could affect the timing and jitter in music. I'm afraid a wireless repeater also worsens the general lagginess.
Do try the end channels (1 & 13) as they are often less clogged in the neighbourhood than the mid-band.
You could try raising the router or fitting larger aerials if the Buffalo can take them. Homeplugs are another option worth exploring if both ends are on the same mains phase (usually true if it's a single domestic site).
From experiencing regular drop-outs with my old SB3, I'd agree and I was getting 85-90% signal strength. It seems doing 2 wireless 'hops' is never ideal and one of those hops should be via a wired connection, and sadly I couldn't achieve that in our place. :(
Our server is wired to the router and so only one hop. It sounds like the router may be bit flaky, I may try a router firmware upgrade at the weekend to see if this improve things any.
You already have a router with MIMO (three aerials) and wireless-n, so there's no real chance of improving things with a new router. Packets do get dropped quite a lot with wireless and, while they are re-sent preserving the data, there is considerable lag which could affect the timing and jitter in music. I'm afraid a wireless repeater also worsens the general lagginess.
Do try the end channels (1 & 13) as they are often less clogged in the neighbourhood than the mid-band.
You could try raising the router or fitting larger aerials if the Buffalo can take them. Homeplugs are another option worth exploring if both ends are on the same mains phase (usually true if it's a single domestic site).
Thanks Martin I'll give your suggestions a try. I'm trying to convince my wife Liz that the Touch is progress compared to the old Sony mini system which it replaced, so far she's not convinced:lol:.
Stratmangler
18-01-2012, 22:38
There are apps for both Android and iPhone that will show you which frequencies your neighbouring networks are occupying, and also give you an idea of signal strength.
With your Touch indicating such a low signal strength it's no wonder that you're getting dropouts.
The reason you're hearing dropouts is because the buffer in the player is not getting chance to fill up - if the buffer is full you should get at least 30 seconds of 16/44.1 playback with a network dropout.
dave2010
18-01-2012, 22:55
50ft is very likely too far. If you have a spare laptop, try going close to the router, then put on a five minute YouTube video (try Karajan or Furtwangler Beethoven 9 for example). Then walk away moderately slowly and I'm guessing that some distance away the video will start to stutter, and may eventually stop.
Homeplugs plus a new access point can improve this situation. TP Link do some quite useful units - around £20.
Stratmangler
18-01-2012, 22:59
Homeplugs plus a new access point can improve this situation. TP Link do some quite useful units - around £20.
I was just looking at their wireless repeater - one of those should be up to the job.
If your existing router supports WDS then you can expand and improve your wireless by adding another router with WDS support placed closer to the SB. Another way is to add a high gain ariel to your existing router which may increase signal strength and quality.
If no WDS support you could use something like a TP-Link wireless extender.
Theres a free PC app called inSSIDer which lets you see what channels everyone in the neighbourhood is using, the its just a case of accessing your router and changing your channel to something else. Our previously flakey wifi was rock solid after that.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I'll have a play in the coming days to see if I can improve things.
Richard I tried the 'inSSIDer' program but it only came up with my network and so I guess I'm not competing with any neighbours, though couldn't quite work out what the GPS function in the program was for or how to use it:)?
Watch out for other 2.4GHz interference such as microwave ovens.
I gained an extra 17% signal strength on my Touch just by adjusting the angles of the aerials on my router
Mark Grant
19-01-2012, 21:43
If you don't get the wireless working reliably and decide on Homeplugs Solwise have a good selection.
http://www.solwise.co.uk/
As well as the usual type that have an Ethernet connection for your device the wifi type look a good way to improve wireless for laptops and ipads etc.
http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline-av-pew-n.htm
A video showing a wifi version:
http://www.solwise.co.uk/video-homeplug-wireless-deadspots.html
Don't know how relevant or otherwise this may be but this is what I've found over the last 24 hours.
A few months ago I had BT (so called) Superfast broadband installed. On checking immediately after, I was getting 13Mb/s download speeds which was considerably higher than what I was getting previously, so I was reasonably happy.
Over the last few days I thought it seemed to be quite slow so I did a few quick speed checks and found it to be around 8Kb/s. Looking at the map showing what other BT customers were getting in my area I found that, as the crow flies I was located in the middle position of 3 houses in a direct line to the local exchange. The nearest to the exchange was reporting an upload speed of 28Mb/s (about 150m from the exchange), the furthest one away was reporting an upload speed of 22 Mb/s, (about 350m from the exchange) and me in the middle (about 250m from the exchange) was getting 8Mb/s.
I shot off a quick e-mail to BT asking why this should be and got a fairly quick acknowledgement of my complaint, together with a commitment to respond within 24 to 48 hours. I've been testing the download speed several times today and it's up at around 36 and 37Mb/s with no action on my part.
So far there has been no response from BT but my money is on receiving something along the lines of, "We've tested your line and find the speeds are what can be regarded as normal" or something similar.
Might therefore be an idea to check what speeds you and your neighbours are getting compared with what you should be getting.
Hope this helps.
Dave.
dave2010
20-01-2012, 07:51
Dave
Your post is not really relevant because you're considering broadband, while Rich is dealing with streaming wi-fi in his home. However, it made me think slightly more.
Again, not relevant to Rich, based on the information provided, but I discovered a few years ago, and tested moderately thoroughly, that if there's more than one wi-fi unit connected to a base station the throughput of each can be influenced by the location of the others. IMO if the units are in a straight line with the access point then there can be considerable reduction of transfer rates, whereas if they are at different angles when looked at from the accesss point, then there is less of an effect. This can be a problem for several people working with wireless laptops in the same room.
Another factor is that some devices are quite a lot more directional than you might expect. Rotating a laptop, for example, may make quite a difference - such as a factor of 10 reduction in throughput - or vice-versa. I was surprised at this, but was able to measure the throughput, and the experiment was repeatable.
Placing a laptop on top of a metal biscuit tin also has a measurable effect!
Rich has not admitted to having other kit running off the same access point, so I'm assuming this does not apply though.
dave2010
20-01-2012, 08:07
I was just looking at their wireless repeater - one of those should be up to the job.I found this one worked for me, and is reasonably priced
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002YETVVE
It has multiple modes of operation, which makes it very flexible. Some people apparently find that confusing, but if you can cope the ability to use this in different ways is very useful.
The manual is here - http://nl.tp-link.com/resources/software/200912243135419.pdf
StanleyB
20-01-2012, 09:13
I would also check for other types of wireless transmissions that could be interfering with the wireless signal. I am referring to such things like wireless DECT phones and wireless home alarm system. I have had this same problem after I started to use a new set of DECT phones. It did take me a while to realize that the phone was the source of the problem.
Stratmangler
12-02-2012, 12:19
Have you made any progress in improving your wireless network signal, Rich?
Yes, a little Chris. I think my router was part of the problem as my main desktop PC has also been occasionaly losing connection with the router, so yesterday I updated it's firmware and fingers crossed there has been no loss of connection so far, though signal strength to the SB Touch still remains low at around 35%-45%. In fairness though when the Touch is working, music playback seems very stable despite the low signal strenth. I will leave it another week to see if the router remains stable if not then I'll buy a new one.
As recommended I have also just ordered a signal extender which should be here next week.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220950377198
Reading reviews on Amazon they are a PITA to set up, so I'm not sure I'll be able to get it working as I get totaly lost when it gets comes to the world of static IP addresses, mac filtering ect, but for £17 I figure there's not much to lose.
Yesterday I also increased the RAM in the PC I use as a server from 256MB to 512MB in the hope this might help it boot up a bit quicker.
Keep you posted
Rich
bobbasrah
12-02-2012, 15:14
This may seem a bit stupid, and I apologise if it has already been tried, as I haven't read the entire thread....
If you are firing from one end of the building to the other (most incoming lines are on an outer wall, and normally your router) the mainly omnidrectional pattern of radiation is not going to be optimised as it would be were it centrally located.
Have you tried turning the router so the antennae are end firing, or even raising it up on the wall to get a bit more gain?
A reflector behind the antennae away from the direction you want radiation might just push the lobe a bit more in the required direction by cutting down the rearward radiation pattern. A tin tray or something may be worth a play?
Just a thought.....
Bob, everything you say is true about the location of the incoming line and position of the router, as it's all currently located in our dining room in the opposite corner of the house from the SB Touch. The current position is probably the worst possible, I have managed to raise the router a bit and turn it's angle of attack and this has improved the signal to around 40-50% at the Touch, I also tried a tin foil reflector but this had no effect. I don't think signal strength is the big issue as long as the Touch can keep it's connection with the server and I'm hoping this may have been a problem with the router, the next week will tell for sure:).
bobbasrah
12-02-2012, 17:56
Fair enough Rich, at least you exhausted the possibilities, even if they are a bit iffy at these frequencies. The only way to increase gain at these frequencies is height above objects to minimise attenuation or closing the gap I'm afraid.
Hope your updated firmware proves successfull is resolving the issue.
PS - Just one additional thought.... On the SMC router here I can select normal or long range wireless in the setup.
Cheers.
dave2010
12-02-2012, 18:17
This may seem a bit stupid, and I apologise if it has already been tried, as I haven't read the entire thread....
If you are firing from one end of the building to the other (most incoming lines are on an outer wall, and normally your router) the mainly omnidrectional pattern of radiation is not going to be optimised as it would be were it centrally located.
Have you tried turning the router so the antennae are end firing, or even raising it up on the wall to get a bit more gain?
A reflector behind the antennae away from the direction you want radiation might just push the lobe a bit more in the required direction by cutting down the rearward radiation pattern. A tin tray or something may be worth a play?
Just a thought.....There are videos about this - search!
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-make-parabolic-wifi-booster-with-aluminum-foil-272913/
I know someone who made a very cheap reflector with cardboard and foil, and apparently it did solve a problem in getting signals between upstairs and downstairs.
Also see http://hacknmod.com/hack/dirt-simple-wi-fi-signal-antenna-booster-for-free/
and http://freeantennas.com which has design templates! [such as this one - http://freeantennas.com/projects/template/index.html
StanleyB
12-02-2012, 18:31
I am using one of THESE (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-N-Wifi-Repeater-802-11N-Network-Router-Range-Expander-Extender-300M-/320838498736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab376f9b0) to extend my wifi all the way to my shed.
dave2010
12-02-2012, 18:34
In theory signal strength shouldn't make any difference with digital transmission - the info is either transmitted or it isn't.Actually this might not quite be the case with wireless kit. This is something which happens with mobile phones as well. Basically if you contact a base station with your phone, and can make the connection, you can then move quite a long way from the base station and the phone will stay connected. This is because both the base station and the phone co-operate, and adjust their power and directionality of transmission so as to optimise the connection, and keep it running. If the connection is dropped for a short while, it can be picked up again.
However, if there isn't a connection to start with, or if the connection is dropped for too long, this power adaptation can't happen because the units involved just don't know the other is there. Maybe some units do do high power beaconing, but probably not all do.
Similar behaviour can probably be observed with some wi-fi kit.
Also, compared with wired systems, wireless systems are much more prone to noise, and this can interfere with digital communications. It is true that usually digital communications is fairly robust, but it does have problems if there is a lot of noise - bits corrupted, then packets dropped - eventually just doesn't work well at all.
Stratmangler
12-02-2012, 19:02
In theory signal strength shouldn't make any difference with digital transmission - the info is either transmitted or it isn't.
If the analogue frequency that the digital stream is carried on is not sufficiently strong you'll end up with data corruption and ultimately system failure.
There is no such thing as digital signal strength.
bobbasrah
12-02-2012, 19:06
The reflector idea is sound enough but because of the wavelengths involved the distances are so short as make it pretty hit and miss relative to the radiator. As a parabolic shape will tend to cut and redirect rear and side lobes it should increase directivity.
I have a vision of a dual sailed router gliding off the cabinet in a breeze though, or becoming a fascinating talking point when guests come to dinner...LOL
Hi Rich,
I was in pretty much exactly the same position you are in now, with a router at the front of the house and the Touch towards the back. I too was getting anything from 18-35% wireless strength according to the touch. Fair play to the touch though, it VERY rarely actually lost the signal, and as long as it's playing music then there's no difference in sound quality whether it's 18% or 100% signal quality.
I too had a Buffalo router, possibly not the same as yours but it did have external aerials and allowed you to detach the one that was shipped and swap it for a longer one. I tried this and it increased signal quality markedly, so this is probably your best bet if you have detachable aerials on your router.
You won't want to hear this bit but the biggest difference in sound quality with the touch is to be had if you're using a wired rather than a wireless connection. Turning off the wireless on the Touch and the fact that it's not having to decrypt your wireless signal (assuming you have either WEP or WPA switched on) both make big differences.
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