Not a 1210, the new deck lands.

[sq225917]

I sold my SMEV/10 last month after living with it for over a year. Great sound, great look, faultless operation and exemplary speed stability. But I always had the nagging doubt that it wasn't quite as lively and projected I wanted. Having used my BENZ LP in another deck previously I knew it wasn't delivering all that it could so I wanted to try another deck that would let it cast off its shackles and give it free reign to dig up the dynamic and projection that i knew it to be capable of delivering. I know the SME's are judged to be the pinnacle of neutrality but as we all know one mans neutral is another mans dull, and for me the combo just verged on the edge of bland, i just wanted a little more- impact.

I trawled around the various forums and dealers seeing what was available and highly regarded by those who's opinions I hold in high regard, punters with a good set of ears who have settled on a system and enjoyed it 'intacto' for years or cautiously work through the upgrade ladder in search of perfection. Suggestions came thick and fast and I weighed them all up, considered the pros and cons- and then ignored them and bought the deck and tonearm that best matched the colour of my cartridge and made me feel like I had a 12" dick. ;-) It's not like we buy hifi to please our friends right?

I was fortunate enough that the importer, Branko at Audiofreaks, actually had part of what I wanted already in stock in his demo list, the rest was ordered directly from the manufacturer. I had my DPD delivery notification in my inbox on Thursday and I've been tracking the item ever since. Sophia, Munich, Oldbury, North Sheffield and today landing on my door step around noon. A massive bloody box containing my new deck to go along with my arm, a Kuzma Stabi S long-wheelbase in black to match the Stogi S 12".

There's a fair bit of unpacking to do with the deck and the boxes are bloody massive, no doubt they ship the XL in the same box. For reference that is an 82mm lens cap on that box, I could hide in there.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7031/6708820213_86e4d5cdf0_b.jpg[/url]

What's inside, more boxes of course.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6708826499_dd4049e122_b.jpg

With the box open it's time to get the parts out. First up is the solid brass T-Bar that constitutes the main frame.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6708843531_1a1eca4580_b.jpg

You wouldn't want to drop this hunk of metal.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/6708854813_8721f09107_b.jpg

In the middle you can see the main bearing housing which is of an impregnated Tufnel construction with a slightly domed thrust plate and oil bath at the bottom. You fill this up pretty much to the top and it vents excess via a small blow hole at the top.

Next out of the box is the sub-platter.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6708866817_7b4f75b277_b.jpg

A drop of oil on the point and in it slips into the bearing.. I wait for it to settle down and a single bubble of oil escapes through the vent hole- perfectly filled with no overspill. Result.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7154/6708873177_8b7d36e23c_b.jpg

The finish quality of the alloy machining is excellent, every bit as good as the SME that it has replaced and improved upon.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7024/6708881875_6cd1c32010_b.jpg

Sadly these pictures do not do the machining justice the finish is so flat.

Once in place and settled I quickly position the motor and spin the sub-platter up just to get a rough handle on the motor pod location before I fit the arm.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7143/6708895407_59a5aa8bd0_b.jpg

I've only got the standard motor kit at the minute and as you can see it's just a simple AC motor with no fancy power supply, in fact it's just a simple capacitor phasing supply, it couldn't be any simpler. it's pretty damn stable though with just the slightest hint of kickback every now and again. A first rate effort for such a simple supply which points to careful motor selection and grading at the factory- or maybe just my blind luck in getting a goodun. I already have a DC motor supply built up I'm just deciding on whether to try the Kuzma Digital Ac supply before spunking a coupe of hundred quid on Maxon's best. Decisions, decisions, I'll have to measure this unit first and hand the sample off to Paulr on PFM to demodulate the speed. (Honestly if you can rip a sample from a test record do it, this will tell you more about your deck than you'll ever learn any other way).

Next out of the box comes the tonearm, a 12" slice of manhood ;-).

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7031/6708924959_f26844deb6_b.jpg

And of course some accessories for this behemoth. Quite a decent manual, 12" alignment protractor and the mounting template, (for the 9" version- numpties).

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6708913693_366e225089_b.jpg

Here's the arm fitted, but not yet set up in any parameter. Obviously i was joking about the 12" dick bit, but I was deadly serious about the colour of the cart and the deck and arm, what's the point in having a deck that looks like it was thrown together by a colourblind idiot. (Ortofon Samba users take note, you know who you are!)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7144/6708936845_0c234c85fb_b.jpg

I should mention at this point that Mark, (Ynwoan ) has been dutifully helping me extract the parts from boxes and provide an additional steady hand and straight pair of eyes for sanity checking my rash set-up choices. There's something quite worrying about the way the 12" cranes out towards you begging you to write of the cantilever with the merest brush of fluffy jumper sleeve.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7010/6708946335_10d7e96573_b.jpg

If ever there was an arm and cart combo that needed a stylus guard it's this one. it just hangs out there so blatantly.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7031/6708992205_8c9a8be516_b.jpg

As mentioned earlier the build quality is something to behold, the metal work makes all rega arms bar the polished RB1000 like quite agricultural. it exudes an air of purposeful solidity from front to back. It's the little details that make it. The headshell machined from solid and butt welded to the arm tube, not pinned. The bias weight is attached directly to the body of the tonearm with its actuation centre being exactly in line with the point of the unipivot.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7033/6709007831_afcfdce826_b.jpg

Graphic details are laser etched into the metal, eroding the hard anodised finish on the arm rather than simply screening or sticking less permanent graphics in place.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7032/6708999999_df1ec4f377_b.jpg

The tonearm wire is Cardas best, double screened with foil and braid in the external wire and terminated with a pair of Eichmann Tellurium Copper bullet plugs.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7170/6708968899_645179c378_b.jpg

Of course none of this matters if it doesn't sound any good and fortunately as far as i'm concerned it sounds very good indeed. While it might not yet have the absolute rock solid speed stability afforded by the 3-pahse digital PLL supply used in my SME it's as good as any simple AC motor supply I've experienced and considerably better than provided by many suspended decks.

Bass is full and nuanced with detail that reaches down deep enough to match what i hear from my MAC-DAC front end yet provides greater air and space around performers in the way that great vinyl can. Tracing error seems to be greatly reduced. I have a couple of albums where the tracks extend well past the inner null position yet they replay without the expected additional sizzle.

What i really like about it though are the colours. I always found the SME V to be entirely reliable and neutral, but for me that verged on grey and tonally bleached, it just wasn't vibrant enough, it lacked a little sparkle and always erred on the side of dynamic restraint. The new 12" Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S combo is by comparison a 1970's Panini football sticker album, compared to the SME's sterile newspaper shades of grey. Maybe there's a touch too much colour for it to be perfectly faithful to the source, but that's ok I want a touch of added drama and excitement and so far the Kuzma has me delving into my collection for record after record across all genres. It's good to have found my vinyl groove again.

[chelsea]

Bloody lovely.

[Bwaze]

Ah, Kuzma... One day, one day... (supporting the local turntable maker) ;)

[YNWaN]

Was at sq's this afternoon and helped (hindered) him with his setup (which would have been significantly easier if Benz had seen fit to provide a stylus guard of some sort). The deck itself takes about two minutes to set up, the arm takes quite a bit longer - a bit fiddly in places but not bad if you know what you are doing. There are a lot of things I really like about this arm and the quality of build and finish is very good indeed.

So, to the sound; had a quick listen and there seemed to be a calmness, a stillness, a moment of counterpoint between inter-transient blackness and dynamic attack- above all it is smooth, smooth like the finest silk stocking and musical in a natural unforced way.

[alex_san78]

It looks awesome and... fragile! :) Congrats!

[YNWaN]

It's not particularly fragile (except there is no armrest clip! - the best arms don't have you know ;)).
+++++++++++

Check out the Mpingo disks on the front of sq's custom Hutter rack.

[Marco]

Very nice, Simon - you must be delighted with it! :)

Once the Kuzma had settled in, it would be good to pop up for a listen. I can bring the ol' DJ deck with me, if you like :cool:

Marco.

[sq225917]

Whenever you fancy Marco, the door is always open. I don't run a pre so you'd likely need to bring your own phonostage as mine is set for .2mv, I guess yours is higher.

[freefallrob]

Lovely looking and obviouslly very well engineered, purposefull looking to.

[sq225917]

It's in rude health, I'm loving it. I've woken my daughter up twice already playing it too loud.

kids, pah!

[sq225917]

Here's the real joy of working stupid hours for a company head quartered in the Outer Banks in the US. I've been up since 7:00am, I've had the house to myself since 9:15 and I'm already onto my third album of the day. God bless home working...

[bobbasrah]

Here's the real joy of working stupid hours for a company head quartered in the Outer Banks in the US. I've been up since 7:00am, I've had the house to myself since 9:15 and I'm already onto my third album of the day. God bless home working...

So an updated sig with the new deck etc would not intrude on your agenda? :D
Very interesting vinyl outfit...:cool:

[Marco]

Here's the real joy of working stupid hours for a company head quartered in the Outer Banks in the US. I've been up since 7:00am, I've had the house to myself since 9:15 and I'm already onto my third album of the day. God bless home working...

Hehehe... Ditto! I'm currently doing some paperwork, whilst toasting myself by the coal fire, sipping a cappuccino and listening to the best of Barclay James Harvest.

The 'rush hour traffic' is a bastard, though, when the cats hold me back on the way to the kitchen getting some munchies! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[sq225917]

Yeh, homeworking certainly has its benefits.

I really must make a stylus guard for that cart though, it's just begging for the cat or my daughter to give it a bath.

[YNWaN]

So an updated sig.....

Yes sq, I'm also disappointed with your signature - couldn't you pad it out to half a page - that seems to be the current fashion!

[Marco]

Soz, they're all copying me! :lol: ;)

Marco.

[MCRU]

Very nice, Simon - you must be delighted with it! :)

Once the Kuzma had settled in, it would be good to pop up for a listen. I can bring the ol' DJ deck with me, if you like :cool:

Marco.

Can I come along as I am gobsmacked at how awesome this TT looks and simply must hear it! :)

[sq225917]

WEll you're jus over the road in Huddersfield, what's your taste in music?

[MCRU]

WEll you're jus over the road in Huddersfield, what's your taste in music?

80's disco, funk, soul, jazz, female vocalists, bit of piano, no classical, and COLDPLAY....:lol:

[YNWaN]

Soz, they're all copying me! :lol: ;)

Marco.

Yes - I wish they wouldn't though!

Pleasingly, nobody's sig shows up when using Tapatalk.

[Big Vern]

Hi Simon,

The deck is looking lovely - pleased to hear it sounds as good as it looks. Apologies if these links have already been posted, but I love watching the craftsmen at work...especially the guy machining the platter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlmNE8UGFXE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T1PRoNshDo

Best Wishes...

[audio39]

Sweeeeet lookin' table there.

The shot about the "12 inches of manhood" hurt a bit, I'm 3 inches shy and not proud of that. :D

Enjoy.

[sq225917]

Greater satisfaction is but a purchase away....

[YNWaN]

http://img.tapatalk.com/5226c926-46c6-a25f.jpg

I've just made sq this fancy pants stylus guard for his very exposed Benz - 100% carbon fibre!

[anthonyTD]

Great design concept,
I hope it delivers many hours of listening pleasure :)
Anthony,TD...

[sq225917]

I think I might have the horn, that looks rite carbony.

[sq225917]

Shimmed out to fit perfectly and it's all done, nicely, cart safe from marauding kiddies and the cat.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7171/6731984757_6207651275_b.jpg

[YNWaN]

Looks a bit like a CF Koetsu:)

[Marco]

Nice! Does it make the cartridge sound any different? :)

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

I think it needs to be removed before playing Marco :)


What an incredible looking record deck :stalks: When I first saw it I was waiting to see the plinth :eyebrows: :doh:

[Dominic Harper]

http://img.tapatalk.com/5226c926-46c6-a25f.jpg

I've just made sq this fancy pants stylus guard for his very exposed Benz - 100% carbon fibre!

I do like what you have done here Mark. It looks really cool, Simon has one heck of a system. Dom had a Kuzma here a couple of years ago, but I didn't get a chance to listen to it:( Those Kuzma's do look so coooooooooooooooool

Natalie;)

[Marco]

I think it needs to be removed before playing Marco :)


I think you missed the irony... Perhaps I should've used a winky, instead of a smiley, smiley? ;)

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

:doh: :D Nothing new :eyebrows:

[sq225917]

I called into the sorting office this morning to pick up my Hercules power supply. For those of you who aren't familiar with it the Hercules is basically an redesign of the Linn Valhalla board, except it has been extended to include 45 as well as 33 1/3 speeds. It also replaces some obsolete silicon with new chips. and fixes some of the 'placement' issues with components that run hot in the original. It runs two crystal references, one of each speed, these are then divided down to get the correct frequencies and then passed onto the output transistors with provide the power for each of the motor phases. So in theory you get two lovely sinewaves locked to the crystal reference. It certainly works, I used to have on with my LP12.

Of course it fits inside the LP12, there's no such space on my Kuzma, but I did have an empty Naim extruded shoebox case lying round, so it resides in there. I need to cut the front panel to accept the switch and make a neat job of it, it's currently just hanging through a roughed out hole. This might be another job for the professional Dremmel skills of Mr Holterman. ;-)

Any way enough of that crap, what does it sound like?

There hasn't been much shift in high frequencies, they sound largely the same. decaying notes are noticeably more solid, they weren't bad before but what I may have put down to technique before is clearly rendered as a smooth fade to silence now. What has changed though is the bass. It's difficult to pin down but two changes are apparent with toms and kickdrums, it sounds as if they have all increased in size, each drum is a little larger and sounds accordingly deeper, but it also sounds as if their skins have been tightened at the same time. Where there was the hint of echo of the back of the body of the drum after the hammer kicks the skin it's now more obvious, much more of an after shock after the initial impact on the drum skin. The Ane Brun I've been listening to a lot this week, 'Do you remember' now has a greater sense of rhythm. The tonal balance hasn't shifted towards the drums but they are much more obviously the driving force of this song, they lead the rest of the band and backing orchestra in a way that they didn't before.

A very worthwhile upgrade. It took about an hour to solder and fit everything up and stands me at £170. Not bad considering the Kuzma supply that does the same thing, but with a less technically elegant solution is now £1400. Of course the simpler Kuzma supply may sound better, but at that price, I'm never likely to find out.

;-)

[pure sound]

Sounds good. Have you actually looked at the 2 waveforms on a scope while the motor is running to see how tidy they actually are? Also it'd be interesting to see what they do if you touch the rotating pulley with your finger.

[sq225917]

Not yet, my scope is at Dave's while he finishes his active HPD crossovers, he needs it way more than me, he's oscillating wildly. I could do with a new-ish one to be honest. Using my strobe disc there was the occasional 1/2 mark kickback every couple of revs, that has now gone completely. I'll grab my AP test track from Mark and record it this weekend for PAul to run his fm demod.

[pure sound]

It'd be cool to do the AP test track both with & without the psu to see how the theoretically better supply changes things.

[sq225917]

Yeh I should have waited to fit it all until I had tested the basic cap supply build, but I just Couldn't wait. ;-). Speed stability is better than I remember it being in the lp12.

[Darren]

....he's oscillating wildly.
Poor sod! Can I suggest Immodium Plus? Always works for me!

[sq225917]

LOL, as one who suffers from IBS i know all about that.

[Jonboy]

very nice TT, i spent a few very enjoyable hours listening to one of these at a bake off a while back :)

[YNWaN]

Did you hear the 12" version? They aren't very common at all!

[sq225917]

More accessory delights from the pen of YNWAN. This time it's a laser cut polypropylene 12" disc to cover my platter to keep the dust off. It works so well I can even keep a record on underneath it.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/6750153465_501162514d_b.jpg

[Marco]

Lol... You two should get married ;)

Marco.

[sq225917]

He's not my type, all he's interested in is those bloody t'internet hifi forums...

[YNWaN]

Lol... You two should get married ;)

Marco.

Because I made a couple of acessories....:scratch:

(any way, I've been married once - quite enough)

[Marco]

Hehehehe....

Marco.

[sq225917]

To be honest it's a bit like having your own tame accessory designer, he pops round every day desirous of cookies and coffee and leaves you with a new toy! Today's gift is a replacement for the latex painted, bonded cotton mat that is adhered to the platter surface. The fitted mat is neither fish nor fowl, it's not a felt mat and it's not a rubber mat but something better sounding than either. Fortunately my preferences with mats and record support leads me in a different direction to rubber or felt mats anyway, a direction which is rather elegantly perfected in Mark's approach to mats and in this case his latest carbon fibre-nibbed record support.

Don't call it a mat, it's not that.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6760451547_ecd592599d_b.jpg

This latest and greatest incarnation uses a pair of carbon disks to locate the metal nibs that actually support the record, lifting it clean of the platter but also closely coupling it to the platter with a high level of precision.

Mind the gap. ;-)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/6760397817_9e8824c99d_b.jpg

The effect is easily noticeable, a reduction in the slightly heavy bass sound, it was a little thick and syrupy before, now it sounds much lighter on its feet and fleeter. Just what the doctor ordered.

[sq225917]

More mods today. I've been using the Hercules motor control board for the past week and it's pretty good it's not as smooth as my SME was but it's getting there. I think I may have nudged it a little bit closer today with a couple of simple mods. Always hard to tell when you do your own mods and act as judge and jury so i'll record the sped stability track and submit it to Paul on PFM for analysis.

I swapped out the small 47uf electrolytic smoothing caps with larger 100uf caps which have better ripple rejection and much lower ESR according to the specs. I also replaced the diode bridge with a quad of Q-speed 5amp 600volt schotky rectifiers. These are by all accounts the quietest, fastest and smoothest rectifying diodes currently available. They certainly work well enough in the PSU's I've built with them.

Any road I shoe horned it all in this afternoon, not much space in there..
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/6782649889_2147c9db33_b.jpg

I think it might have tightened up bass notes a little, they seem better but it could be expectation bias. I'll record the test track and submit it for analysis to Paul over on PFM. I'm confident it has slightly improved. We'll see.

[sq225917]

More tinkering yesterday.

I had been picking up a little bit of 'radio perestroika' on my phonostage since getting the Kuzma, I know it's not my phonostage so it could only be the tonearm wire or the arm itself. Tests showed it not to be the external wire which is both well shielded and well earthed- at least my big ass 500va transformer couldn't induce any hum in it.

I messed about continuity testing the armtube and sure enough it's not earthed anywhere. So I had a quandary where to fix the extra armtube earth, and how?

There's a small steel pin press fit into the base of the arm, it's the bias hanger. SO I stripped back a single run of Cardas tonearm wire, soldered it up and tried to solder it directly to the end, point to point, not overlaid as I have to refit the bias line with its tiny loop over the top.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7032/6788447929_2f58512676_b.jpg

Success. Ok it's not pretty. I'll redo it with a black wire and heatshrink it all in place using only the most direct route for the wire when i can be arsed. But it works, absolute silence and more low level detail. Result.

[Marco]

I'm glad you've resolved the problem, Simon, but don't you think that it's a bit shoddy on such an expensive high-end turntable?

Kuzma should've tested for that issue, or at least considered it and made proper provisions for a cure, should it be a problem in someone's system. One should not have to tinker with a supposedly 'sorted' brand new high-end T/T.

Marco.

[Macca]

I'm glad you've resolved the problem, Simon, but don't you think that it's a bit shoddy on such an expensive high-end turntable?

Kuzma should've tested for that issue, or at least considered it and made proper provisions for a cure, should it be a problem in someone's system. One should not have to tinker with a supposedly 'sorted' brand new high-end T/T.

Marco.

I was thinking that too but I assumed that only the deck is new and the arm was something Simon already owned. If the whole thing is new then it does show a surprising lack of attention to detail from the manufacturer especially at the price - in fact at any price :scratch:

[Marco]

I was thinking that too but I assumed that only the deck is new and the arm was something Simon already owned.


You may be right. I'm sure Simon will confirm :)

Marco.

[Audioman]

Judging from the pictures the arm came out of a sealed box so this in my view is an unaccetable design fault. Not something you get with SME, Rega etc. After Marco's arm woes this persuades me that British is best. I will mention that this was not always the case and some wiring issues have been reported recently with the Technoarm. In any case there should be no need to have to modify a competent design. If it were me it would be straight back to the importer. Problem with Kuzma it appears the TT design is restricted to their own arm?

I honestly can't be done with putting up with poor design to achieve a certain SQ. Aside from the recent Technoarm issues reported on SH and VE forums I have also seen pictures of a Funk arm with Azimuth problem similar to Marco's. Though an arm head assembly error and not Cartridge related. This sort of thing should not happen on pricey hand assembled items. Shows lack of adequate final inspection and/or electrical testing.

[Clive]

From Simon's comments about what he sees as short-comings in other products I expect he'll be very unhappy about this.

[Darren]

From Simon's comments about what he sees as short-comings in other products I expect he'll be very unhappy about this.

OOH! subtle Clive, subtle. That made me smile;)

[sq225917]

I am quite unhappy about it. I would stamp my feet and jump up and down about it had I not investigated more closely and found a solution.

The earth wire only runs up to the end of the external arm wire and ends in the alloy fitting that is grub screwed onto the bottom of the arm mount, the outside of the Silicon Well in fact. You are meant to slide the arm wire fitting onto the exposed stub and screw it down- apparently screw it down hard enough to break the paint seal and make contact with the metal underneath which then earths the entire assemble right up to the headshell.

I'm not sure if it was overspray from the painting, maybe I just have a light tough with the allen keys. However, i stripped it all down, cleaned all points with ISO-p. Dragged a bit of wet and dry over the pin for good measured and tightened it all down and now it's good. Perhaps a note in the manual regarding making sure there is continuity as this point would be helpful. It's not the sort of oversight i'd expect at this level, given how important it is to the final sound quality.

Normal service is removed and so is my temporary fix, job done.

[Marco]

Hi Paul,


After Marco's arm woes this persuades me that British is best.

To be fair, it wasn't Ortofon's fault that I decided to unscrew something on my tonearm which should've been left well alone! ;)

The fault I had was with the SPU, the bayonet fitting of which had been glued in the wrong position. I had no problem with the tonearm, which was perfect. And how Ortofon (and Henley) handled the situation with my SPU, and resolved it in super-quick time, was exemplary.

Mistakes happen in any company, including SME. It's how problems are resolved that matters. I'm a firm believer that you often find out more about how good a company is, by how they resolve a problem, than you do otherwise. In that respect, Ortofon get top marks!

Anyway, glad you got the problem sorted, Simon.

Marco.

[sq225917]

More mods today.

I like quite a bit of belt tension, it helps things run evenly in my experience. Obviously too much can upset the apple cart and increase transmitted motor noise, but the addition of a little can aide speed stability. One of the issues with the Kuzma is that the separate motor pod, though massy, is quite narrow, and with only three feet isn't that great at resisting increased belt tension- in fact you can move the motor far enough so that the stability of the motor pod can become an issue. So my trusty in house designer has been at it again.

Ynwan made me a disc of 3mm black acrylic which fits under the motor pod on my Kuzma extending its effective footing by 25mm in all directions, which makes it much less likely to rock/unbalance when placed under greater belt tension. Basically I can move the motor further from the deck to get more belt tension without it tipping over. Underneath this is a 2mm sheet of Sorbothane, more for its sticky nature than anything else, though it does effectively do the same job as rubber feet.

And the result- Jesus, what a result, a greater increase in speed stability than fitting the Hercules PSU. It really is close to being as good as I've heard. Pics later today.

[Marco]

I like quite a bit of belt tension...


Yes, I heard that. And no doubt the thick end of the buckle, too...! :eyebrows:

Anyway, glad you've got an improvement; I admire your dedication to the cause. Look forward to seeing the pics of said tweak :)

Marco.

[sq225917]

There's a fair way to go with this Kuzma yet, replacement of main bearing and sub-platter and a completely different Ac motor controller. Quite a snazzy one with a USb interface that allows you to set, output voltage, frequency in .01hz steps and the offset of the two phases supplying the voltage to the motor.

[sq225917]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6836804147_d287211999_b.jpg

Motor pod footer

[pure sound]

Quite a snazzy one with a USb interface that allows you to set, output voltage, frequency in .01hz steps and the offset of the two phases supplying the voltage to the motor.

Sounds interesting. Where's that from?

[sq225917]

As If I'm going to give that secret away... sheeesh.

[Darren]

I like the gravy stains on the bottom right of the chopping block best of all.:D

[sq225917]

Isn't all of your hifi multipurpose?

[Marco]

I like the gravy stains on the bottom right of the chopping block best of all.

Those aren't gravy stains! :bum:

:eyebrows:

Marco.

[sq225917]

yer right, the big round stain is from a Sorbothane pad, god only knows what solvent they are cast with and the little drips are from .....well obviously tossing off over how ace my deck is. You all do it, so don't look so shocked. ;-)

[Canetoad]

yer right, the big round stain is from a Sorbothane pad, god only knows what solvent they are cast with and the little drips are from .....well obviously tossing off over how ace my deck is. You all do it, so don't look so shocked. ;-)

:rfl:

Not me...

[sq225917]

Alright, maybe not my deck, but I bet you all touch yourselves in a special hifi way once in a while.

[DSJR]

Not since the mid 70's..... :)

[sq225917]

Blimey what are you now, late seventies, I would never have guessed I figured you for pre retirement age.

[Marco]

Alright, maybe not my deck, but I bet you all touch yourselves in a special hifi way once in a while.

Oh yes, but only whilst wearing a Santa hat, adult baby-gro (lightly soiled), and a worryingly big smile! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Darren]

.....well obviously tossing off ;-)

Yea, I kinda knew that I guess.......

[sq225917]

I didn't think the principle would be unknown to you.

[Marco]

Quick, check for 'wanker's cramp'....! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[royzak]

Well what a great thread,I have nothing to add,just building my Orbe from that photocopy Michell supply was bad enough to start changing things would scare me.This thread has had me intrigued at what could possibly come next and how it would sound and laughing out loud at the banter,cheers.

[sq225917]

What comes next is a rejection of high falutin power supplies and a brief return to sheer grunt and a high mass of copper. I had a 500 vA 110v transformer delivered today, it's about 6kg of copper and core. I will be building this in to an Armageddon clone over the weekend.


http://www.areyoulocal.com/photos/Large/toroidals.JPG
Similar to the one on the right, but with goss band and electrostatic shield.

[sq225917]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7208/6862594791_bab7819d9a_b.jpg

A bit of brute force goes a long way, this sounds remarkably good, I'm struggling to tell it apart from the Hercules on the standard Kuzma bearing subplatter assembly. On the modded Linn bearing assembly it sounds a lot better than the Hercules where the 120/80v differential on the two drive phases manifest as cyclical instability.

The search continues.

[sq225917]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7062/6892364683_2637310366_b.jpg

Record shop in nottingham.. Bargains to be had.

[sq225917]

And speed tests for the http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7201/6893035537_673d6668b7_b.jpg

Each circle is one revolution of the platter, any deviation from a perfect circle = speed deviation. About 2cm on the screen = 0.1% error, so these are down at 0.05% or better. If you counts the bumps per revolution you can work out the frequency of the error and likely what causes it. For example the Geddon, GREEN, has 12 humps per revolution, (most obvious between 5-6 o'clock) in it, these are caused by the poles of the motor and the fact that i need to choose a better capacitor to offset the two sinewaves that drive the motor.

have fun.

[sq225917]

Swapped the cap out today, i think it's better, i need to test it with the test track to see for sure as it's at such a low level.

[sq225917]

4th in the ever extneding investigation into turntable power supplies rears its head today. So far we've had.

1. Standard phase shift capacitor network.
2. Modified Hercules AC control board, 33 1/3 and 45 speeds. Full AC regeneration and Quartz clocked speed.
3. Naim Armageddon clone, 500VA based isolation transformer providing 120 volts with phase shift capacitor network matched exactly for motor resistance and inductance.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/6922075093_5aa175f7bf_b.jpg

And now this dirty little girl. An Ac regenerating Quartz clocked bi-phase turntable power supply with filly adjustable start up voltage, speed increments in 0.01hz and phase lag adjustments in 0.01 degrees. It's effectively two computer controlled chip-amp amplifiers fed with a newly generated sinewave, one for each phase of the motor. For Ac control it doesn't get much better than this, it's effectively two Hercules motor control boards but with digital adjustment of all parameters.

With a following wind i might get it rigged in time for Scalford, it depends on control hardware interface coming from China.

[Bwaze]

Sounds amazing, what's the rough price estimate in parts? I guess it's a bit too advanced diy for most of us...

[sq225917]

Bwaze, there's nothing difficult about it, you just put part c1 from the list in the holes marked c1 and repeat for all the other parts. The large Amtel is already programmed, the only awkward bit I can foresee in configuring it the first time via USB, but once I've done that for mine i'd be more than happy to help anyone else. The designer is German so i will translate all the notes into English.

Honestly it's like painting by numbers.

Parts cost including the boards and everything except the case looks like being around £220. Given that the only PSU that offers anything similar to the features on offer to this is in the multi-thousand price bracket I think the VFM it offers is pretty good.

Suffice to say i'll build it up and test it against the modded Hercules and Armageddon clone and report back with measurements so people can make a considered choice.

I should mention it's designed with 24v AC motors in mind, so i'll have to flip the output with step-up transformers to get the voltage I require, though i reckon it will do 40-50volts without step-ups. (The limit is in the chip-amps)

http://www.roehren-und-hoeren.de/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7890

Original thread.

[Patrick Dixon]

Looks interesting. I was going to make something like that for myself, but of course I never quite got round to it ...

I should probably do a 3 phase one for my EMT927.

[Bwaze]

I have seen the link on the Pink Fish Media, and looked about a bit. But mein Deutsch ist sehr Schlecht, and Google Translate is still a bit tiresome.

Thing is, I might be buying a Kuzma Stabi S / Stogi S (the normal, "short" version) next week. :doh: Four months ago there was no turntable even near my house. And I haven't even installed all the stuff into my Technics yet!

I've been lusting for Stabi S since 1998 when I first saw it. So I grabbed an opportunity now when one appeared used (not an often sight, they usually go among friends).

My soldering skills are pretty rudimentary, so I might be better off buying the MOSE / Hercules combo, if I decide to upgrade power supply. I think.

But first I plan to finish all the planed stuff on Technics (I hope I get my ordered KAB fluid damper), and compare these two dissimilar decks. Should be interesting.

[sq225917]

If you do get the Kuzma the Herc/Mose is an excellent choice (the Mose adds incoming mains filtration), It's worth replacing the diode bridge with decent Schotkys and the big electrolytics with larger ones. It's also worth replacing the 0.22uf cap with a single 0.2uf cap or 2x 0.1uf caps. I think I might end up making a small pcb to enable that capacitor swap.

Updated pics are all in my Flickr.

[sq225917]

Fiddling about with PSU's has been a bit of a crutch of late, it would be fair to say I have been missing the absolute rock solid speed stability of the SME10 since I sold it- I knew I would. But I also knew that the SME house sound wasn't the one I wanted. All of these PSU mods have been with an eye to implementing a high drag bearing assembly, which requires a different sub-platter/platter and of course motor/pulley. I managed to acquire the motor/pulley that i needed today. So I rushed home with them and swapped out the Kuzma bearing/sub-platter for the modded high drag versions and reassembled. I swapped out motors and set everything up, checked it was all running straight and true, popped the strobe on for a sanity check and settled back for a listen.

JOB DONE, I have rock solid speed and pitch stability once again. The high drag bearing does its thing moderating and fluctuations by the application of viscous drag. I might even take her to Scalford now.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7190/6926441905_ed01e90982_b.jpg


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6926434479_80af867e17_b.jpg

[Darren]

But, do you feel there is much of the Kuzma house sound left? It is, after all, a very different turntable to the one Frank Kuzma designed.
Apart from the speed stability issue are there any other Sound quality benefits to the mods you've done?
PS. I would never buy one of these turntables now as I would always feel mine was inferior to the sq model. .....
You did the same to me with the Young DAC....... damn your eyes :)

[Darren]

.... And another thing. What's the point of great speed stability when your chopping board is so in need of sanding and refinishing. Those stains are, like, so biological man. It's just not right.....

[Macca]

Leave the chopping board alone, man. The chopping board is cool.

[sq225917]

Darren, Ive just tried to make the speed as stable as possible while veering as little as possible from the high mass, plastic bearing and belt drive unipivot. All I've really done is introduce drag and then swap some parts to enable that choice. Tonally it's barely altered, apart from that speed stability.

It's quite atypical In Terms of overall sound balance for a belt drive though.

I'll get round to tidying up the plinth once Ive fitted the new shelf in the kitchen, until then block of wood stays put, it's the spare shelf:-)

[Darren]

Leave the chopping board alone, man. The chopping board is cool.

But Macca..... My heart's in the right place baby. I'm afraid that the chopping board/ spare shelf's biomass might reach the point where it achieves sentience and refuses to support a turntable....

[Darren]

Darren, Ive just tried to make the speed as stable as possible while veering as little as possible from the high mass, plastic bearing and belt drive unipivot.
It HAS all been very interesting sq. I know you are one of these no stone left unturned guys.
I've just bought a VPI HW19 with a 4kg platter and I'm going to mate it with my Roksan Nima and Rondo Bronze. Should be fun.
Only fly in my ointment is that the VPI arrived with a broken lid and VPI don't make them anymore.

[sq225917]

Sounds interesting what's the motor controller? ;-)

[Darren]

As far as I can see it appears to consist of 1.5m of cable and a three pin plug.... It's a zen thing :)

[sq225917]

So straight into the wall then.

I might just have a box of tricks that will be right up your street. Any chance of a shot of the underside of the motor.? I assume there's a 3.3k resistor and a small .2uf capacitor hiding somewhere.

[Bwaze]

Simon, did you by any chance make the speed test for unmodified Kuzma Stabi S without any power supply?

[Darren]

So straight into the wall then.

I might just have a box of tricks that will be right up your street. Any chance of a shot of the underside of the motor.? I assume there's a 3.3k resistor and a small .2uf capacitor hiding somewhere.

Stop being nice sq! I don't know what to do with you when you are nice! :)
A bit more seriously: thanks for taking an interest. I'll post a snap tomorrow evening as I'm balls out all today and tonight.

[Darren]

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7394/imagevjv.jpg

[Darren]

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4506/imagetvo.jpg

I can see a cap sq, is it what you thought?

[sq225917]

Yeh, I reckon my little PSU in a box would be just the ticket for that.

[Darren]

How much baby?

[sq225917]

Let's see if it makes a worthwhile difference first. I'd only be looking to recover the cost of the pcb (£179) and whatever case it ends up in, I'm happy to throw in the £16 worth of diodes and £45 worth of smoothing caps.

So potentially, £230 or thereabouts. it's currently in a Naim half width case, in black.

Are you heading to Scalford next weekend?

[Darren]

No, I've heard it's full of hifi geeks at this time of year.
Help me out here: I'm confused. Is this the power supply you've just built? The complicated adjustable thing? Why are you selling it?
We have to bare in mind that I only paid £350 for the whole turntable.

[sq225917]

This isn't the Uber german one, I haven't finished that build yet. This the commercially available Hercules PSU. It's an Ac regenerator with 33/45 selectable from a front button. This one has had the rectifier diodes and the electrolytic smoothing caps replaced with the best available parts, Q-sdpeed diodes and Vishay/Sprague caps. I need to liquidize this to finish the other build. If you only spent £350 on the deck then you probably aren't looking at putting another £230 into a psu, unless you intend on keeping it over the PT.

[YNWaN]

Darren, at present, your TT effectively doesn't have a power supply at all. It obviously has an AC motor that is just connected to the mains (with a single capacitor).

I'm writing an article on TT drive systems now - 924 words in so far....

[Darren]

I understand that Mark, but does it need one?

[YNWaN]

It will work quite happily without one. However, it will certainly be improved with a good one.

[Darren]

Hi Sq,
Im going to get the VPI set up later this week and go from there. Currently awaiting cartridge bolts of suitable size. You are right - two hundred some quid onto a £350 turntable with a cracked lid doesnt make the best sense but if the VPI sounds good I may go for it. We'll see.

As I say, many thanks for taking an interest.

[sq225917]

What length bolts do you need?

[Darren]

What length bolts do you need?

Stop it sq! Stop being so nice to me! If this goes on I'll have to start calling you Simon and sending you a card at christmas....:ner:

A bit more seriously: I've ordered a good selection, should have them later in the week.

[sq225917]

No worries. One of the guys on PFM has been performing some interesting analysis of the effects of the various power supplies I've been building as well as secondary effects, like checking the impact of the drag created by a second tonearm playing simultaneously with a first arm playing back a fixed frequency test tone. (To cut a long story short with a 50hz AC motor, Premotec/Linn version powered from a 120volt isolation transformer and running into a high drag bearing- there is no effect, stylus drag doesn't even register. Ynwan provided the test samples at no short effort in set-up.)

Here's a wavelet power analysis of my Kuzma playing back the 3150hz test track. Basically it shows 7 revolutions of the platter along the bottom axis, frequency up the vertical axis and power density via colour, white is worst, blue is best. Anything under 20hz could come from a multitude of sources, most noticeably environmental coupling or recording artifacts from laptop soundcard.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7208/6937843511_1fd46bfdeb_b.jpg

To put it mildly that's a shit hot result, with no 50hz at all. Vindicating the use of a high drag bearing arrangement and showing just how good that can be when coupled up to a mains derived frequency sourced via a simple heavy duty isolation transformer. Nothing fancy going on here just careful matching of capacitors to the motor.

Shame it doesn't do 45.

[sq225917]

You know, it is nice to get away for a day and play bits of your hifi to a few other people, but really, there's no place like home.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7181/6812725392_0f7e8476cc_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6812725386_16c57ba0cb_b.jpg


Deck all finished now, PSU is 500va isolation transformer with 2x 0.1uf Wima caps, bearing, platter and sub-platter are from an LP12- to allow use of a high drag bearing mod.

Job done- next project awaits...

[Marco]

I think we all feel the same way, Simon.

I thought that your T/T was rather good and played music with panache and passion. It sounded very musical, and I enjoyed listening to it :)

I also thought that the Tannoys in your room were excellent. Without doubt, to my ears, they were the best ones at the show, and in some ways resembled my Lockwoods, albeit with less scale. They were the only Tannoys that sounded remotely 'modern', instead of rather tubby and old-fashioned, like others I listened to at Scalford.

I presume that the crossovers have been modified - and what were the drive units, 12" Monitor Golds?

Marco.

[YNWaN]

Actually, they are 12"HPD's with custom active X-overs and amplification. I agree though regarding the sound. Although they do belong to my friend Dave (and therefore I am biased), I also thought they were by far the best Tannoys at the show and much less coloured than the others.

[roob]

Si
Is the deck secured to the plinth or does it just sit on it?

[sq225917]

As Mark says custom active XO, still very much a work in progress though. They certainly don't have the boom and tizz of older Tannoys, nor the notch at 3k.

Andy, it just sits on the plinth, and the plinth is centred over an 18" kids bicycle inner tube that is only just inflated enough to keep everything in the air. there's still some work to do on the isolation.

[Marco]

Ah, so they were HPDs... Thanks for the clarification, Mark. I totally agree - they were definitely the least coloured sounding Tannoys at the show, and for now obvious reasons. They were excellent.

The sound that they achieved at Scalford, in terms of openness, clarity, definition and lack of thickness and 'bloom', is similar to what I get at home from my 15" MGs, albeit with more scale and impact, due to the bigger drive units and cabinets.

To be brutally honest, I was shocked at just how poor all the other Tannoys I heard sounded, but that's what happens when you use them with their original crossovers (and drive them passively) with fatally flawed, cuddly sounding valve amps.

However, awesome results can be obtained when driving them passively with a properly designed valve amp, providing that the crossovers used have been upgraded with the best modern components ;)

Marco.

[YNWaN]

As sq says, Dave is still working on the active X-overs and I think he currently has them tuned to be a touch lean in the bass. At his house (in his attic room) they sound bigger in terms of scale and produce very much better focus. In fact, they produce possibly the best stereo image focus I have ever heard (I don't write that lightly) - its quite remarkable.

As for the other Tannoy's at the show (the older ones, not Steve's), I put a lot of the issues I had with them down to the bass loading used.

[Darren]

As for the other Tannoy's at the show (the older ones, not Steve's), I put a lot of the issues I had with them down to the bass loading used.

Could you expand this topic please Mark?

[sq225917]

I assume he means the massive chuffing 'bass port' that is effectively an open box end and as such all of them are under damped with an according peak in the response. Compare these with Robin's corner horns which do not have the same loading or peaky response and Dave's tuned box with the similar lack of peak.

[Alex_UK]

Compare these with Robin's corner horns which do not have the same loading or peaky response and Dave's tuned box with the similar lack of peak.

I was reading this thread and thinking that the ONLY Tannoys I got to hear were Robin's 15" corner cabs - and they sounded amazing to me - I obviously can't compare to the others, but that system sounded mighty fine... :scratch:

[Macca]

Actually, they are 12"HPD's with custom active X-overs and amplification. I agree though regarding the sound. Although they do belong to my friend Dave (and therefore I am biased), I also thought they were by far the best Tannoys at the show and much less coloured than the others.

Were those the Tannoys in the huge black cabs with two bass ports?

[sq225917]

Yeh Dave's were the black Darleks.

[YNWaN]

I was reading this thread and thinking that the ONLY Tannoys I got to hear were Robin's 15" corner cabs - and they sounded amazing to me - I obviously can't compare to the others, but that system sounded mighty fine... :scratch:

Hmm...I didn't think those 15" corner cabs sounded that good to me; mind you, I did wonder what they would sound like if placed in the corners where they are supposed to go, instead of 4 metres from the nearest corner (as they were placed at the show).

[Marco]

I never got to hear Robin's corner cabs, but I'm sure that they'd have been pretty decent.

Didn't he have Lancasters before, or am I thinking of someone else? The Lancasters Jerry used in his room last year were superb and produced one of the best sounds of the show.

Anyway, like I said, of the Tannoys I heard, the ones in Simon's room were by far the best, and the closest to the sound I enjoy at home from my Lockwoods :)

As for the rest, well....

Marco.

[Macca]

Yeh Dave's were the black Darleks.

Well only had a breif listen but they had an excellent sound going on.

[Alex_UK]

I never got to hear Robin's corner cabs, but I'm sure that they'd have been pretty decent.

Didn't he have Lancasters before, or am I thinking of someone else?

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/WigWam12/P1000539.jpg

Nicked Martin's pic - but are those a pair of Lancasters? Look like it to me..?

[YNWaN]

I never got to hear Robin's corner cabs, but I'm sure that they'd have been pretty decent.

Well, I thought they were probably hampered by being corner speakers but positioned way out in to the room - I would have liked to have heard them positioned as intended (it was a very big room though).


The Lancasters Jerry used in his room last year were superb and produced one of the best sounds of the show.

I don't think I heard them - perhaps I did, will search my memory :)

[sq225917]

Phew- finally, after much back and forth with PSU's from different vendors and lots of measurements from paulr over on PFM my PSU build quest is now done.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7176/6823359580_2bc242e5b0_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7202/6823358282_05e047c875_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/6823357630_3cb0666e27_b.jpg

Entire set for Armageddon clone build+ annotations.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59684834@N08/6823360144/sizes/l/in/set-72157629553367709/

Not only does it look the part but it frankly kicks all the Ac regenerators that I've tested into the weeds. Total build cost for this is about £240 and that includes all the electronics and the case and sled from Andrew P from Audioflat.

[Bwaze]

Simon, do you use the supplied silicon damping fluid for tonearm? I see that you have experimented quite a bit with that in the past.

[sq225917]

I use silicon fluid but not the supplied stuff from Kuzma, I use a 3000 weight fluid.

[YNWaN]

I made some bits for that :) - looks cool Si.

[sq225917]

Yeh that front panel is proper nice. It needs a logo though...

[Marco]

Yeh that front panel is proper nice.


Am I missing something, chaps? No doubt that, sonically, it does the biz, but it just looks like a plain old (pretty boring) generic Naim-style box, to me... :scratch:

Marco.

[YNWaN]

You mean it's understated

[Marco]

Yes, that would be me being polite! :eyebrows:

Anyway, it what it works like that counts.

Marco.

[sq225917]

Honestly marco, have a look at some of the badly finished 'bling' that gets posted on these and other pages around t'web as examples of good looking hifi. It beggars belief. ;-)

[sq225917]

Alright own up. Who's got my Hercules PSU and has falling off the update radar? WHat are doing with the thing, how's progress?

[sq225917]

Back from the dead.

The lip on the top of the LP12 platter has been annoying me for a while, it just doesn't look right with the rest of the Kuzma. So I took it off yesterday. First I started off going the delicate route with 400grit and a cork block. After 30 minutes it doing fuck all I took the manly option of 80 grit and the orbital sander- that shifted the bastard. I was almost out of rattle can, so I only gave it a cursory re-spray, the speckle pattern is large as a result so i'll have to take that back to flat at some point and spray it again. But It's making me smile once again and I might trial 2x motor drive this week if my trusty workshop slave has time to build a mockup motor pod.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7209/7080255699_902c509dd1_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/59684834@N08/7080255699/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7085/6934177858_1ddd2979e4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/59684834@N08/6934177858/)

[Darren]

You know how you dont like turntables that look like bad DIY.........

















Only joking sq. It looks nice. How does one go about obtaining one's own workshop slave? can I use yours when it isnt in use?

[sq225917]

Workshop slave, part time cellar gimp. I guess it's like a timeshare. I'm not sure if he has any vacant slots- so to speak.

[Darren]

Ooh-er! I like that image. Is his butt plug made from carbon fibre?

[sq225917]

PaulR finally got round to doing the sped demodulation for my latest motor/PSU/bearing set-up. I'm quite pleased with it. I managed to squeeze out a little improvement over the last version by more carefully matching the phase caps. The new version is in green.


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5320/6946898818_2e583040d0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/59684834@N08/6946898818/)

If it doesn't really make sense how accurate that actually is, here's a recently serviced Pioneer DD PL71 to compare it with.

http://www.kilmory.demon.co.uk/pics/fmresults/nealg_PL71_NewPSU_polar.png

I wonder if any of the 1210 modders are willing to step up to plate and take up the challenge?

[Bwaze]

What does one need to enter this "Turntable speed analysis" on Pink Fish media? I assume a test record with Standard Wow & Flutter test signal; 3150Hz, or something similar:

http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/medium/AAPT_1__35532__01152009115123-1196.jpg

Record it in mono, 16bit, 44 kHz, and post it in PFM thread to be analysed? Any need for higher quality (24bit, 48kHz or more)? I read the thread long ago, and I don't remember now where the instructions are posted, they're not on the beginning of the thread. :)

I'm still waiting for my KAB fluid damper. I ordered it on January 11th, but the post managed to loose the registered package. :( Kevin from KAB has now sent me another one, on his expense I'm afraid. :(

Well, anyway, when (or if?) it arrives I'll take a day to make some upgrades on my Tecchie, step by step, and record some needle drops in between and listen to changes. I plan to install new Mains Cables R Us PSU, wire strobe lights so they can be disabled and install KAB fluid damper.

The problem is it will take another two weeks...

[YNWaN]

3150 from the test record you show is fine - record in stereo about 20 seconds at 16/44.

To be honest though, I doubt that your proposed mods will impact on the speed stability of the drive system.

[sq225917]

Paulr says he prefers about a minute of the track including the start, then he can align everyone's samples to match.

Stereo, 16/44.1

The thread is called Turntable speed analysis in the Diy section on PFM