Pioneer Exclusive P3a

[RobbieGong]

I've heard about this baby when folk speak of top / audiophile DD's. How good are these ? Didn't put in Bargains on Ebay cause I dont know if it is one :lol: Looks to cost a good portion of a mans annual salary by the looks of things - Worth it ?? :)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pioneer-Exclusive-P3a-P-3a-Turntable-P3-P-3-Perfect-Working-Condition-/250974774477?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6f4324cd

[chris@panteg]

At that price , it's a snip lol , not heard one but those who have say it's in the top league
of the 3 best of all time ?

[alex_san78]

I've read some comments from the guy who has bought one few years ago. or maybe it was a P10. Not sure now. He did liked it but was not really exited by its performance. He had about 6 or 7 different decks in audition room at that time so he knows what's he saing. 8400$... :stalks:

[Beobloke]

Given that he states "What you see in the pictures is what you get" and there are a pair of Amcron DC300 power amps clearly visible in one of them, I would say this could well be a bargain...;)

[Rowlf]

I have seen and heard a P3a at a friend's house. Massively built TT and must have weigh something like 70kg. It was the best TT out of his other 10 collector's turntables that also included a no slouch Micro Seiki SX-8000 and P3a was by far a better TT.

[rahman]

I have seen and heard a P3a at a friend's house. Massively built TT and must have weigh something like 70kg. It was the best TT out of his other 10 collector's turntables that also included a no slouch Micro Seiki SX-8000 and P3a was by far a better TT.

Interesting. Better in what respects?

[Rowlf]

Hi Adrian, before I go on, I have to make it clear I did not mean to diss the Micro Seiko. My own TT was Micro Seiko buit.

I am not one that could articulate an audio review and if I really had to answer your question, I would struggle to give more information other than to say P3a was more refined in the middle and top end but had the DD punch over the belt drive SX8000. This, one probably wouldn't notice if there wasn't a P3a to compare with. But I totally appreciate that listening is a subjective thing and I believe my friend who owns the TT might have disagreed with me.

If I were told that I could only have a Micro Seiki SX8000 for the rest of my life, I would have given away a leg to get it. That was how good I think the SX8000 is. But P3a did have a superior performance over the SX8000 when I heard it on that day. In fact the P3a was at a disadvantage running a new Lyra Delos that had a "low rider" problem and was meant to be returned to the vendor for exchange. The SX8000 was using a Ortofon Jubilee if I could recall correctly. We switched the cables around so that both TT runs through his Allnic H3000 phono stage and into the same amps and speakers. The cartridges, therefore, was the only difference.

A warning for anyone wishing to own a P3a is that it would only accept Pioneer's original tonearm and you need help from your neighbours, cousins to move them into your room. I was told the TT + packaging was about 90kg.

[rahman]

Hi Adrian, before I go on, I have to make it clear I did not mean to diss the Micro Seiko. My own TT was Micro Seiko buit.

I am not one that could articulate an audio review and if I really had to answer your question, I would struggle to give more information other than to say P3a was more refined in the middle and top end but had the DD punch over the belt drive SX8000. This, one probably wouldn't notice if there wasn't a P3a to compare with. But I totally appreciate that listening is a subjective thing and I believe my friend who owns the TT might have disagreed with me.

If I were told that I could only have a Micro Seiki SX8000 for the rest of my life, I would have given away a leg to get it. That was how good I think the SX8000 is. But P3a did have a superior performance over the SX8000 when I heard it on that day. In fact the P3a was at a disadvantage running a new Lyra Delos that had a "low rider" problem and was meant to be returned to the vendor for exchange. The SX8000 was using a Ortofon Jubilee if I could recall correctly. We switched the cables around so that both TT runs through his Allnic H3000 phono stage and into the same amps and speakers. The cartridges, therefore, was the only difference.

A warning for anyone wishing to own a P3a is that it would only accept Pioneer's original tonearm and you need help from your neighbours, cousins to move them into your room. I was told the TT + packaging was about 90kg.

Thanks for that, James.

I'm just curious to find out what the perceived differences were and FWIW, I did not take your post as disparaging of the MS (and nor do I have a dog in this particular race).

My only issue with this comparison (and most TT comparisons) is that are rarely like-for-like. In this case, as you rightly note, the cartridges were different. And it therefore begs the question how much of the perceived differences can be attributed to the deck alone. It’s also not clear, but were the arms used the same as well?

Please don’t take this as a dig – I’m just trying to understand the different variables at play (and I also understand that sometimes it's not possible or only possible with lots and lots of hassle to ensure like-for-like comparisons).

Cheers
Adrian

[Rowlf]

No worries Adrian. No offence taken at all!

Always happy to share any information but I was concerned if anyone has taken my statement to mean that SX8000 was not up to it. That was certainly not the case.

The problem with comparing P3a with any other TT is that it would be difficult to run a like for like test as you quite rightly pointed out. The tonearm on a P3a has to be original. You could of course replace the tonearm but that misses the point of owning a P3a. A P3a without the original tonearm loses it value and you wouldn't want to be drilling holes on its plinth. This is similar to Porsche enthusiasts who would only want original parts in their cars.

The listening session in fact had not started out as a comparison test but......,well, we tried our best to have as little variation (or as much constant) between the 2 TTs, but understandably, it would be quite tedious if we were to switch cartridges around so that was the only variation outside of the deck. The price points of the Ortofon Jubilee at £1200 mounted on the SX8000 (cannot remember the tonearm) and Lyra Delos at £900 on the P3a were pretty close. The abstract presentation such as warmth, soundstage, laid back vs forward were different and could play to each person's taste but in terms of extracting details that has more to do with performance and less to do with presentation, the P3a was more refined and therefore sounded better to me.

[Rowlf]

I stand corrected. Just got a massive knock on my big fat head.

The Micro Seiki was a RX5000 not SX8000.

Many apologies to everyone.