View Full Version : Ethernet cables
Covenant
14-01-2012, 14:49
The ethernet cable between my squeezebox Touch and router is over 10 metres long as they are on different floors. About 6 months ago I replaced the Cat 5 one with a Cat 6. Yesterday it appeared to fail as I cannot connect wirelessly.
The only possible cause I can think of is that the cable passes through a hole in the garage used by the tumble dryer vent.
Would heat/moisture cause the cable to fail? Should I buy an upmarket ethernet cable or just try an insulate a standard one?
bobbasrah
14-01-2012, 14:58
The ethernet cable between my squeezebox Touch and router is over 10 metres long as they are on different floors. About 6 months ago I replaced the Cat 5 one with a Cat 6. Yesterday it appeared to fail as I cannot connect wirelessly.
The only possible cause I can think of is that the cable passes through a hole in the garage used by the tumble dryer vent.
Would heat/moisture cause the cable to fail? Should I buy an upmarket ethernet cable or just try an insulate a standard one?
That sort of heat should not affect a Cat cable. They are pretty robust, and failure is likely mechanical (chafing from vibration or stretching or plug come adrift).
If you still have the old Cat5 cable, switch it to establish if the cable is the issue.
Some programs can ping the cable to establish where a break is from memory.
I presume that you mean that you can only connect wirelessly. If so, I'd check connectivity between different devices on either end (i.e. instead of your router and squeezebox) to eliminate problems with the PC router port or squeezebox network interfaces.
Cable problems are rare if they are not disturbed, certainly as a result of heat or moisture if the cable jacket is undamaged, and the cable isn't kinked (visually inspect this)You could get a CAT 5e cable tester for very little - check Maplin / network cable outlets. This will give you a basic continuity test, but should show up any problems.
BTW, there is not really any point in going above Cat 5e on a squeezebox as it only runs at 100Mbps. 10m isn't really a long run - in my house I use runs of 90+ metres, but this is with solid core Cat 5e rather than the stranded cables used as patch leads. It conducts better, but doesn' like being bent repeatedly.
Good luck!.
Alex
Covenant
14-01-2012, 15:42
Thanks chaps, I chose Cat 6 as it appeared to have a more substantial cover. I have tried moving the Touch adjacent to the router and it connected up ok used a short patch ethernet cable.
I have just thought-there is one joint in the cable (beneath a plinth in the en-suite!). I will check that out before ripping out the Cat6, which will be a nightmare to replace.
Covenant
15-01-2012, 13:41
Alex-I tried another device and it was able to connect using the ethernet cable. As the cable is not the problem it looks like the Touch may have developed a fault. I guess there is nothing in settings that needs switching on? I have just done a system reinstalled and got to the point where it asks for wireless or ethernet. When I select the latter it says system does not detect a connection.
I forgot to ask if it has ever worked correctly? I presume so.
Does it get an iP address from the router and then not locate your squeeze centre server, or not even get an iP address?.
Does it work successfully via a wireless connection?.
If another Ethernet device can see the router it suggests that the cable is ok. Check that it is fully inserted, I.e. Until it clicks as sometimes the boot on some cables can prevent it being properly inserted into the Ethernet jack.
Try a couple of other things and let me know what happens:
1) plug sbt directly into the router and check that everything is working correctly, then move the sbt to the end of the long cable and retest
2) go to settings, advanced, diagnostics, and copy/paste the output of the Ethernet info and server info dialogue boxes so we can see what it thinks is working.
3) try power cycling the router and doing a soft reset on the sb touch
P.s. I forgot to mention that cat6a cable is less tolerant of bending than cat5e, which is why I don't usually recommend it for domestic installations where you may have to pull cables through stud Walls etc. Cat 5e is usually more robust IMHO. Cat6a has a minimum bend radius of 20cm iirc..
It is possible that it has bee damaged, but verify that all is well via direct connection to the router before doing anything else.
Cheers,
alex
Covenant
15-01-2012, 18:37
Weirdly, I was able to get an ethernet connection this afternoon for a couple of hours then it failed. No problem connecting wirelessly but I would prefer wired in order to get the full benefit of the Soundcheck mods. I have tried repositioning the Touch close to the router and connecting via a patch cable-no problem. Tried resetting the router.
It seems likely, I think, that the cable is damaged which is a pain as it was very tricky to install.
Hmmm... my bet is that the jack isn't locating properly in the back of the touch. Either that or the cable is damaged, I'm afraid.
You could try speaking to Logitech if it less than a year old, and get a warranty replacement. If it was working fine up until recently it could be a problem with the touch.
As a last resort, maybe try another port on your switch before pulling a new cable.
Sorry!
Alex
Covenant
15-01-2012, 21:49
Well I think I will try a replacement cable as they cost buttons. I will get Cat 5e this time. UTP or STP?
Stratmangler
15-01-2012, 22:09
UTP.
Don't add the the potential for ground loops ffs :doh:
Mark Grant
16-01-2012, 09:43
It seems likely, I think, that the cable is damaged which is a pain as it was very tricky to install.
I would fit new connectors to the CAT 6 if you have the crimp tool and try that.
CAT6 is a bit more difficult to terminate that CAT 5e and a connector could be at fault.
I have a peak tester you can borrow if that helps.
http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_utp05.html
it's only a pair continuity test rather than a proper bandwidth test but helps confirm wiring especially if you move the connectors about as you do repeated tests to check for badly crimped plugs.
Mark Grant
16-01-2012, 09:48
I have just thought-there is one joint in the cable (beneath a plinth in the en-suite!). I will check that out before ripping out the Cat6, which will be a nightmare to replace.
How was it joined?
Ideally needs connectors fitting and a coupler such as this.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lot-2pcs-CAT5-RJ45-Network-Cable-Extender-Plug-Coupler-Joiner-UK-/270894344663?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item3f128fa9d7
A posh screened metal one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RJ45-Cat5e-STP-Network-Ethernet-LAN-Cable-Lead-Coupler-/170534197638?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item27b4a15986
If the cable was joined in connector strip or a junction box etc it wont be reliable.
Covenant
16-01-2012, 11:46
Its joined with a similar fitting as the one in your first link Mark. Thanks for the tester offer but it seems to be an intermittent fault so it could test ok but still be faulty. I have a hum through headphones when using a headphone amp and it is possible that the Cat6 I am using is causing the problem so replacing with Cat5e UTP may solve two problems. A bit of huffing and puffing at the weekend with the odd expletive thrown in will get the cable installed.
Cat5e is absurdly cheap on ebay. Are there any better makes?
I like the black box Gigabase UTP 350Mhz Cat5e. That is what I've wired my house with, and it is fine for 1Gbps and long runs - some are 95m in my house, and I have pulled it through all sorts of nasty places.
I have a 300m reel and you are welcome to a 20m piece for nothing if you want it. Correction - just noticed you're not exactly local!
Regards,
Alex
Stratmangler
17-01-2012, 15:46
it is fine for 1Gbps and long runs - some are 95m in my house, and I have pulled it through all sorts of nasty places.
How big is your house? :eek:
You're correct though, in most circumstances it's fine for 1Gbps.
I've only had to rewire with Cat6e on one occasion, and that was on a site with RF problems - I suspect that the electrified railway line behind the building had a bearing on this :eyebrows:
Covenant
17-01-2012, 15:48
Thanks Alex. I have splashed out £1.98 for a 12 metre piece off Ebay :rolleyes: . I appreciate the offer though.
Mark Grant
17-01-2012, 18:19
I like the black box Gigabase UTP 350Mhz Cat5e.
Regards,
Alex
It's good stuff :)
I always buy a box of branded Ethernet cable rather than a no name off ebay.
http://www.blackbox.co.uk/category/1/1/Copper-Bulk-Cable/Cabling/
-
Well I think I will try a replacement cable as they cost buttons. I will get Cat 5e this time. UTP or STP?
A Cat 7 has an extra layer of shielding and is reinforced.
http://www.frys.com/product/5790122?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
Very fast and very well made.
It's good stuff :)
I always buy a box of branded Ethernet cable rather than a no name off ebay.
http://www.blackbox.co.uk/category/1/1/Copper-Bulk-Cable/Cabling/
-
That black box stuff is nice cable mark can you terminate with the gold plugs as they fit very tight and there tuff as hell.
Covenant
19-01-2012, 12:08
A Cat 7 has an extra layer of shielding and is reinforced.
http://www.frys.com/product/5790122?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
Very fast and very well made.
Jeff, I will be ripping out Cat6 shielded at the weekend because, so I am told, its the shielding causing the interference. I have bought cheap Cat5e UTP.
Hope it works!
Jeff, I will be ripping out Cat6 shielded at the weekend because, so I am told, its the shielding causing the interference. I have bought cheap Cat5e UTP.
Hope it works!
Huh,sounds like a poor cable as shielding done right should prevent it.:doh:
Covenant
19-01-2012, 13:27
Don't know if you are familiar with Soundcheck who does the Squeezebox Touch software mods. This is from his website:
Here you'll find a review of German Stereo magazine. They concluded that
out of this test not a single cable (quality cable) complied to CAT6 (<250Mhz).
And except one cable not even complied to CAT5. (<100Mhz)
Further they concluded that unshielded cable consistently sounded best.
The German company Meicord made it rank1 in that comparison.
Those Meicord folks figured out certain aspects by now. Key elements are
supposed to be shielding (ground loop -- my guess) and the RJ45.
(That's what I figured earlier). They suspect a problem with
characteristic impedance mismatch (good end/ bad end) of 100R and thus associated reflections. Crosstalk also seems to play a role.
Over here (in german) you'll find some more info about it.
What's missing though, is an explanation why all this would impact the audio
stream on the other side of the transformer.
Budget advise:
You might want to try high quality cable CAT6A (=<500MHz). U/UTP stands
for Unshielded and S/FTP for Shielded.
There are e.g. Draka UC900 S/FTP cable with Hirose Plugs TM31!!!
(TM31P-TM-88P,) they sell at a couple of $/€ over here in Europe.
I paid 6-7€ for 1m.
Note: I did remove the shield of my cable (it's an S/FTP) 2 inches away from the
connector to avoid a ground loop into the Touch. That puts at least one
leg of that patch-cable on ground - and still makes a nice antenna. ;)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.