View Full Version : Rega USB input
nbaptista
12-01-2012, 12:05
Hello all,
I know Rega is not an asincronos Dac, but I wonder if Rega USB implementation is any good!The USB input is only a convenience, like some suggest, or is as good as an asincronos USB ?
I might be interested in Rega Dac, but I need mainly the USB input, so my question!
Hi Nuno
I posted a little review of the REGA DAC here a while ago. IMHO it's exceptional on optical and coax inputs but I felt it was inferior to the Young DAC on USB. As I don't use USB I bought the REGA and am very happy with it. I'd certainly suggest that you get to listen to a Young DAC if possible as it is USB input you are interested in.
Regards
Steve
If you need hires async usb from the Rega then get a used Hiface for about £60.
It's not about the quality of the USB input but the quality of the data coming out of your computer. Use Jplay vs Jriver or Foobar, you should hear a MASSIVE difference. Use a HiFace or similar you should should gain a little more but that then connects to SPDIF though I don't believe it's the reason for the lift in SQ, it the async setup.
nbaptista
12-01-2012, 12:44
It's not about the quality of the USB input but the quality of the data coming out of your computer. Use Jplay vs Jriver or Foobar, you should hear a MASSIVE difference.
I´m using Foobar with EAC. I have the DacMagic, but is not asincronos. Asincronos Dac´s, regarding what I´ve bee reading, have a low jitter!I´m not interested in high resolution files, 16 bits 44,1 Khz is ok for me!
Jplay mini makes a huge difference in 16bit files on the Rega USB input
I´m using Foobar with EAC. I have the DacMagic, but is not asincronos. Asincronos Dac´s, regarding what I´ve bee reading, have a low jitter!I´m not interested in high resolution files, 16 bits 44,1 Khz is ok for me!
It's not for me! The difference is HUGE. With Foobar/ASIO the image is smeared between the speakers. It could just be my PC but I'm not the only one to find this. That smearing = jitter caused by latency issues. Redbook files now are on a par with good vinyl and in some cases better it.
USB straight from the PC will be carrying all sorts of noise and crud from the USB bus, unless the dac has a good USB input with some form of galvanic isolation this will degrade the signal from the dac, this is one of the main reasons why the spdif input on cheaper dacs always sounds better than their usb input.
The Rega dac does have an isolated usb input.
nbaptista
12-01-2012, 13:04
It's not for me! The difference is HUGE.
So what media player should I use?
So what media player should I use?
JPLAYmini. The trial version puts gaps in the music every so often but otherwise is unrestricted. You need Windows 7 SP1 ideally.
USB straight from the PC will be carrying all sorts of noise and crud from the USB bus, unless the dac has a good USB input with some form of galvanic isolation this will degrade the signal from the dac, this is one of the main reasons why the spdif input on cheaper dacs always sounds better than their usb input.
The Rega dac does have an isolated usb input.
But......there are no galvanic isolators which run hi-speed usb 2, just full-speed, which is only 12Mbps. Running full-speed won't work with a VERY low-latency setup. On a normal usb setup I agree, galvanic isolators are very useful When someone comes up with a hi-speed one I'll be using it!
nbaptista
12-01-2012, 13:14
Is this the jPlay site download? I can´t see where is the mini version
http://jplay.eu/download/
Yes, it's mini plus plugins for foobar etc. Mini sounds best on it's own to me.
You get all 3 as part of the download as Clive says going throygh the more basic mini version is best and Hibernatate Fully you can do this by pressing H once before you play music, all other computer process will be turned off but this takes digital playback to the next step
nbaptista
12-01-2012, 13:28
USB straight from the PC will be carrying all sorts of noise and crud from the USB bus, unless the dac has a good USB input with some form of galvanic isolation
But a good USB cable can fix the problem?I´m asking because I have a Kimber USB cable!
But......there are no galvanic isolators which run hi-speed usb 2, just full-speed, which is only 12Mbps. Running full-speed won't work with a VERY low-latency setup. On a normal usb setup I agree, galvanic isolators are very useful When someone comes up with a hi-speed one I'll be using it!
I think you'll find ADUM 4160 supports full speed (480 Mbps) data transfer.
http://www.circuitsathome.com/measurements/usb-isolator
I use these chips in my server.
They are suitable for independent power supply which can give improvements over the 5Volt supply drawn from a computer.
I'm not certain how much importance data transfer rate has in the computer>External Dac chain.
Most music players buffer the data as do digital to analogue converters. So as long as the data transfer rate is sufficient to fill the buffers transfer speed shouldn't be an issue.
I cant resist a wry grin when reading what I have taken in the past to be fairly die hard vinyl; enthusiasts waxing lyrical over file based audio.;)
I think you'll find ADUM 4160 supports full speed (480 Mbps) data transfer.
http://www.circuitsathome.com/measurements/usb-isolator
I use these chips in my server.
They are suitable for independent power supply which can give improvements over the 5Volt supply drawn from a computer.
I'm not certain how much importance data transfer rate has in the computer>External Dac chain.
Most music players buffer the data as do digital to analogue converters. So as long as the data transfer rate is sufficient to fill the buffers transfer speed shouldn't be an issue.
I cant resist a wry grin when reading what I have taken in the past to be fairly die hard vinyl; enthusiasts waxing lyrical over file based audio.;)
Thanks John, I'll check out that galv possibility.
You know very well there are many ways to reduce jitter, one extremely cost effective way is an in memory player that guarantees to deliver data in extraordinarily tight time constraints. Buffers do exist but they tend to be VERY small, delivering data to the dac input in what is in effect real-time in computing terms is clearly vital, latency is a big issue here.
No need for a wry grin, I'm really pleased to have 500CDs I'can listen again! Other than the things like DCS I've never heard redbook sound as it should before, that includes HRT streamers fed from a typical PC setup. Of course I've not heard your music server but I'm close to convinced that anyone using the normal players is still a long way from getting the best out of the medium, unless using a very special server - which I question as a needlessly expensive approach - a comparison is needed!
If I were using Foobar / ASIO or JRiver in a normal PC setup then file-based music would still be very much second best for me.
I think you'll find ADUM 4160 supports full speed (480 Mbps) data transfer.
http://www.circuitsathome.com/measurements/usb-isolator
I see they say "ADuM4160 works at full/low speed and uses built-in transformers."
They don't mention hi-speed (480Mbps). Full-speed being 12Mbps.
I can't find the link atm Clive but somewhere, someone mentions getting 480Mbps through one of these.
They were playing 24/192 files if my memory serves me.
I can't find the link atm Clive but somewhere, someone mentions getting 480Mbps through one of these.
They were playing 24/192 files if my memory serves me.
That would be cool!
I will have a better look for it at some point.
One of the problems with changing operating systems like underwear is some stuff just doesn't travel with you. ;)
nbaptista
12-01-2012, 21:15
why the Rega is not Asynchronous, instead of adaptive?
http://www.hifi-advice.com/USB-synchronous-asynchronous-info.html
Here they say that asynchronous is the most advanced technology!
Even the new DM Plus is asynchronous!
StanleyB
13-01-2012, 07:10
Just as there are different PC operating formats, or there were different video tapes format, there are different USB audio data transfer formats. Async is not technically better than isync. The theory behind it does not add up. Async communication has always been inferior to synchronous.
Would you like to expand on that Stanley?
nbaptista
13-01-2012, 12:32
in these article they say explicit that Asynchronous is the most advanced
http://www.hifi-advice.com/USB-synchronous-asynchronous-info.html
bobbasrah
13-01-2012, 12:38
in these article they say explicit that Asynchronous is the most advanced
http://www.hifi-advice.com/USB-synchronous-asynchronous-info.html
"The thing is: Asynchronous USB data transfer doesn't guarantee perfect sound**. Well, technically speaking, it does. But bit-perfect transfer doesn't guarantee enjoyable sound. When using a PC as source, having very precise, very correct sound can be too much of a good thing if the source computer already sounds thin or when the rest of your system tends to the overanalytical"
WHAT?:mental:
Vincent Kars
13-01-2012, 12:51
There is a article by Jim Lesurf demonstrating the differences between a adaptive mode receiver and an asynchronous one nicely. http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Linux/Sound3/TimeForChange.html
I am sure Stan will be along shortly with proof to back up his statement with regard to usb computer audio performance.
Reid Malenfant
13-01-2012, 15:30
I am sure Stan will be along shortly with proof to back up his statement with regard to usb computer audio performance.
The only proof you need is to listen to all the different types & then pick the one that sounds best to your ears :)
The Japanese gave us proof years ago that their amplifiers were the best, I mean look at how low the distortion was :eyebrows:
Measurements do not tell the complete story, trust your hearing :D
You hold onto tight that crumbling subjective ledge you're hanging off Mark. ;)
I have the choice of Adaptive or Asynchronous data transfer with my HRT Pro.
Asynchronous sounds better to me. :D
bobbasrah
13-01-2012, 15:51
There is a article by Jim Lesurf demonstrating the differences between a adaptive mode receiver and an asynchronous one nicely. http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Linux/Sound3/TimeForChange.html
Interesting link that, and some impressive yet strange outcomes too. It has been quite interesting to note the diametric opposite opinions over signal linkage, and this will only add fuel to the fire no doubt as it will be that dreaded usb link thingy distorting the outcome.....:doh:
With all that is going on to accomplish perfect audio transfer timing (I suppose analogous to direct drive turntables) perhaps the next year will see some concensus and progress before the physical CD kicks the bucket....:mental:
Cheers Vincent :cool:
I think you'll find ADUM 4160 supports full speed (480 Mbps) data transfer.
http://www.circuitsathome.com/measurements/usb-isolator
John, some info I've been given is that Hi-Speed USB compatible isolators are: Icron Ranger and Adnaco S3.
It seems the Hi-speed is needed when Windows UAC2 drivers are used.
Interesting link that, and some impressive yet strange outcomes too. It has been quite interesting to note the diametric opposite opinions over signal linkage, and this will only add fuel to the fire no doubt as it will be that dreaded usb link thingy distorting the outcome.....:doh:
With all that is going on to accomplish perfect audio transfer timing (I suppose analogous to direct drive turntables) perhaps the next year will see some concensus and progress before the physical CD kicks the bucket....:mental:
Cheers Vincent :cool:
One of the smart things to do is to not take power from the USB, some dacs have gone this route and they are amongst the better sounding ones.
Cheers Clive. I still haven't had time to dig out the article I think I can recall :eyebrows:
What Clive said. Independent linear regulated 5V 2A power.
Where's Alex_UK when you need him? :D
I understand the Rega DAC is galvanically isolated and last time I heard it, it was being used via a stock USB cable from Alex's old? VIO laptop running XP (I don't know the other software I'm afraid). Sounded bloody great to me and I have one of these DAC's on my wish-list as it's properly built and has plenty of inputs...
Shill for Rega? - YES and UNASHAMEDLY - SO THERE!!!!! :lolsign:
Don't get too het up about using a computer for audio playback. There's plenty of users here who've done it successfully and I'm sure, loads of good advice on how to set windaz up for good operation :)
bobbasrah
13-01-2012, 17:00
One of the smart things to do is to not take power from the USB, some dacs have gone this route and they are amongst the better sounding ones.
Totally agree, been there done that complete with async usb and drivers. The second smart thing to do is build a computer with two onboard usb controllers, one dedicated to the DAC, been there done that. No usb noise, no problems right through to that pointless 24/192, only that nagging doubt remians known as upgradeitis...... I know there are better implementations of DACs, but I also know there are a lot worse.:doh:
Although tempted to see what better regulator arrangements would do, it is perhaps more sensible to get another DAC first before blowing this one up....:D
Vincent Kars
13-01-2012, 18:55
---computer with two onboard usb controllers, one dedicated to the DAC...
A controller: http://sotm-audio.com/sotm/products/tX-USB.htm
bobbasrah
13-01-2012, 21:14
A controller: http://sotm-audio.com/sotm/products/tX-USB.htm
Looks the business Vincent, but for now I'll stick with the cruder http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3516#ov
Where's Alex_UK when you need him? :D
Shit-faced farting on the sofa as usual of a Friday evening. Next question? ;)
it was being used via a stock USB cable from Alex's old? VIO laptop running XP (I don't know the other software I'm afraid). Sounded bloody great to me and I have one of these DAC's on my wish-list as it's properly built and has plenty of inputs...
Not sure it is old or reasonably new - 2.5 year Sony Vaio Laptop - running Vista. As for playback software - I was using MediaMonkey with WASAPI - with a Belkin Pro USB Cable. (It must be a fantastic USB cable, because it has a blue LED in each end, to show it is working! OMG! ;))
bobbasrah
14-01-2012, 06:00
Shit-faced farting on the sofa as usual of a Friday evening. Next question? ;)
I miss those british traditions.....:eyebrows:
(It must be a fantastic USB cable, because it has a blue LED in each end, to show it is working! OMG! ;))
So could that be the ultimate usb optical solution then ?:D
nbaptista
02-02-2012, 15:17
JPLAYmini. The trial version puts gaps in the music every so often but otherwise is unrestricted.
only gaps in the music? the trial version is the same as the original , only put gaps in the music?
BTW, I´m using the JPLAY mini right now. I downloaded the trial version, and then I´m running Foobar, but before I copy the DLL JPLAY file into components Foobar folder. Is that way?
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