View Full Version : Technics SL1200 upgrade priorities
Yes, another Technics upgrading thread. :D Based on different threads and posts on this forum I have made a sorted list on what upgrades to the Technics SL12xx turntables that might give noticeable improvements in sound quality. Would you rate it the same way, or push an upgrade higher up on the list? :eek: Are there other upgrades that should be included?
1. A good cartridge
2. Remove lid
3. New feet
4. New mat
5. Tonearm damping
6. Tonearm cable
7. New bearing
8. New platter
9. New larger power supply
10. New tonearm
11. Internal chassis or component damping
12. Isolation platform
13. PCB board upgrades
14. Arm board
15. Headshell
16. Disable pitch control
17. Disable strobe light
18. Remove old power supply
I have not included obvious stuff like TT leveling, tonearm and cartridge adjustment, record weight and phono stage. Some upgrades will also work in synergy I guess, like a new heavy platter might be need a new more powerful supply to work to the fully. A new tonearm might have a better tonearm cable and damping so it can yield several upgrades in one.
Stacker45
11-01-2012, 14:02
No offence,but in my opinion,someone who does all that,is better off buying a different turntable,i like the sound of my stock SL-1200,and that is exactly how she's going to stay.:)
No offence,but in my opinion,someone who does all that,is better off buying a different turntable,i like the sound of my stock SL-1200,and that is exactly how she's going to stay.:)
That would make sense to some people but unless you have heard the top flight Tech in action you cannot really comment, it blows away the vast majority of medium priced turntables.
Jostein,
Makes sense, the cover that is there when you take the platter off needs to be removed as well.
My budget bits, * denotes planned or ordered but not yet received item:
1. Technics SL-1210 MkII used - 160
2. A basic cartridge - AT95E - 20
3. New feet - Vantage Audio feet - 30 *
4. New mat - Reso-mat - 36
5. Tonearm damping - KAB fluid damper 140 *
6. Tonearm cable - Belkin PureAV digital interconnects - 15
7. New bearing - Technics SL-1200/1210 MK2 MKII stock Shaft - 30
9. New larger power supply - Mains-Cables-R-Us Technics PSU - 250 *
10. New tonearm - Technics 1200 M5G Tonearm - 85
11. Internal chassis or component damping - bits of Blu-tack
15. Headshell - Sumiko - 39
16. Disable pitch control - unplugged, used PC jumper to connect middle leads
18. Remove old power supply*
Together: 805
Is it better than most of these turntables?
Pro-Ject RPM 5 - 650
Pro-Ject RPM 6.1 SB - 800
Rega Planar 3 - 800
Pro-Ject Xperience Basic - 800
Music Hall MMf 5.1 - 800
Clearaudio Concept - 1100
Music Hall MMF-7.1 - 1300
Rega Planar 5 - 1300
Pro-Ject RPM 9.1 - 1400
I have no idea... I'm completely new to the vinyl. But I'm enjoying the ride so far! After I complete all the above I'm going to live with it for a while, try to borrow or otherwise try several cartridges and upgrade that. Maybe cheaper bearing upgrade later on... :rolleyes:
Stacker45
11-01-2012, 18:54
That would make sense to some people but unless you have heard the top flight Tech in action you cannot really comment, it blows away the vast majority of medium priced turntables.
Well,i doubt that you have compared you're modded 1200 to the ''vast majority'' of medium priced turntables,anyway,If you go all out with modifications it becomes very expensive and time consuming ,and if you say that ''it blows away the vast majority of medium price turntables'' wich i doubt very much by the way,you agree that there's a minority of meduim price turntables that might sound better than a souped up 1200 for the same amount of money,without going through all the trouble of modifications.
Trying to look at this from both sides of the fence (I have to be careful because I really like my modded 1210!) I really would love to put mine up against another turntable up to let's say £1200. Not because I want to hear my Technics 'wipe the floor with' the other turntables, but because I'd love to hear where it sits in the grand scheme. Would be fun at any rate, and if it was significantly better it'd make me feel I'd done the right thing. :)
And, going on from that, wouldn't it be great if one of the mags (HFW in particular) put a lightly modded Tecchy up against similarly priced TT's?
They did it with a Bastin 401 a few years ago - so why not do it now with a 1210?
Hi Serge,
No offence,but in my opinion,someone who does all that,is better off buying a different turntable,i like the sound of my stock SL-1200,and that is exactly how she's going to stay.:)
Good for you...
As you're new here, you obviously haven't read the multitude of threads that explain exactly why it's worth modifying the SL-1200/1210. I suggest that you do, in order to understand the situation properly, and why people embark on such a journey.
I'll give you a clue to get you going.... Think of the very high quality direct-drive motor mechanism, which is at the heart of the Technics; one which would cost many THOUSANDS of pounds/dollars (let that bit fully sink in for a minute...) to produce today, regardless of any other part of the turntable, and you'll be on the right track! ;)
Marco.
Artifolk
11-01-2012, 19:33
I'm basically trying to do the same upgrades as i have with my Linn LP12 and see what the outcome is, doing this should i hope put me on the right path. I do have a sneaky feeling though.
Techy = LP12
Insonoe = Trampoline 2
Oyaide BR-One,mj12,STB = Keel klone
MN Bearing - Cirkus
Jelco 750db = Ekos
DV 20X2L = Troika
PH SR7EHD = Armageddon2
I know not everything is in the same price range. but i still think this is the way to go imo. At least i'll have a better idea on which deck to fund more.
Artifolk
11-01-2012, 19:39
Marco,
Just imagine if Linn produced a drive similar to the Techy :eek:........HOW MUCH!!! :lol::lol::lol:
Indeed - and that's the whole point.
Serge is making the mistake of judging the SL-1200/1210 on how much it used to cost, or should that be instead, how little it used to cost for what it was...
We've been here 100s of times already, but it's worth reiterating/regurgitating one more time: the reason why the Technics used to cost 'only' £300-400 new is because of economies of scale, in that Matsushita Electric (who designed the superb D/D motor mechanism) could afford to produce it for that price due to their HUGE financial resources, and the efficiency of their mass-production techniques.
That, and also the fact that, due to the SL-1200/1210 being produced in its hundreds of thousands, over a period of over 40 years, the company had long since recouped the initial design expenditure. Fact: no British T/T manufacturer, other than perhaps SME, has the engineering prowess to build a top-notch direct-drive turntable mechanism from scratch, such as that which is used on the SL-1200/1210. And if someone like SME could produce one, it would certainly not retail as a turntable package for £300-400!!
Basically, all this means that the SL-1200/1210 CANNOT BE JUDGED as a budget, or even mid-priced turntable. It is a high-end motor unit, which unfortunately contains some 'DJ DNA' (the crap stock mat, feet, mediocre arm, etc) which adversely affects its sonic performance. However, once this is removed, and the constituent parts upgraded, the full sonic potential of the direct-drive motor unit is realised - and that potential is quite phenomenal, hence why people here do what they do ;)
And let's not forget, too, that the SL-1200/1210 was originally designed as a proper 'hi-fi' turntable. The only reason that DJs latched onto using it, was because of its rugged construction and superb reliability. Ironically, however, it was they who prolonged its life and allowed hi-fi enthusiasts and music lovers, like ourselves, to exploit the huge sonic potential of this marvel of Japanese engineering.
I absolutely adore mine (as shown in my avatar), and can think of less than a handful of high-end turntables, available on the current marketplace at any price, that I would even consider swapping it for! :)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
11-01-2012, 20:15
<snip> The only reason that DJs latched onto using it, was because of its rugged construction and superb reliability. Ironically, however, it was they who prolonged its life and allowed hi-fi enthusiasts and music lovers, like ourselves, to exploit the huge sonic potential of this marvel of Japanese engineering.
Marco.
You forgot the most important thing which is why they latched on... The variable speed so they could mix tracks with no breaks & in time from one deck to another... I'd say reliabilty was probably not considered, but they have proved to be incredibly reliable & as you say - rugged :)
E2A: The incredible pitch stability also played a massive part to!
Thank god they did to or you wouldn't be where you are now Marco :)
Hi Mark,
You forgot the most important thing which is why they latched on... The variable speed so they could mix tracks with no breaks & in time from one deck to another...
All that stuff was added later, matey. If you look at an original SL-1200, from 1972, there is no variable speed selector/pitch control. Why would they put such a thing on a T/T that was aimed at audiophiles? ;)
No, the pitch control was added sometime later, in response to the fact that probably about 80% of SL-1200s/1210s produced were being sold to the DJ market...
Why? Because of their rugged construction, reliability, and let's not forget also, the fact that they sounded bloody good pumping out dance music in clubs (largely because of the superb quality of their D/D motor unit).
Therefore, Matsushita Electric (National Panasonic/Technics) had to modify the SL-1200/1210's exisiting design to cater for its now primary use and target market, which is why we, years later (as the audiophiles it was originally intended for), now have to remove all the unwanted 'DJ DNA' and spend hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of pounds, fitting the accompanying ancillary items that the superb D/D motor unit deserves! :doh: :)
Thank god they did to or you wouldn't be where you are now Marco
Indeed... Me and thousands of others! I would've gone down the SP10 route, which I had been looking at doing before I embarked on my journey with modifying the SL-1210 :cool:
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
11-01-2012, 20:54
& today Mark learn't some more :eyebrows: Cheers for putting me right Marco, always appreciated :)
No worries, matey. I'm learning all the time too, which is precisely what forums like this are for! :cool:
Marco.
Stacker45
11-01-2012, 21:29
Don't get me wrong Marco,i think the 1200 is a wonderful deck,otherwise i wouldn't have bought one,i'm just saying that a fully modded 1200 is very expensive,and i'm not sure that for the same amount of money and a lot less trouble someone could get something equivalent or better :)
And you're perfectly entitled to hold that opinion, Serge :)
Let's just say that experience of using/listening to a multitude of T/Ts (some of what could be considered the costly variety) since 1982, tells me that my current T/T, modified as it is, performs like very few others I've heard.
If you switch your focus onto the unique and extremely accurate way a top-notch direct-drive T/T reproduces music (think pitch and speed stability here), which is very important to me, and you'll understand more where I'm coming from. How many NEW top-notch D/D T/Ts are currently available?
I can think of two. One I don't like the look of (Inspire Hi-Fi Monarch), and the other (Grand Prix Audio Monaco), I wouldn't pay the money for. Both of which, however, I'd be confident my T/T would perform well against, which gives you an insight into what can be achieved with a judiciously modified SL-1210.
And 90% of belt-drive T/Ts I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, so that kind of restricts my choice of a high-end T/T, doesn't it, which is precisely why others and I have gone down the modified Techy route - and with great success! ;)
Marco.
An interesting read is the Stereophile review of the GP Audio Monaco:
http://www.stereophile.com/turntables/1107gp
...noting this bit, which I entirely agree with:
In the "White Papers" section of his website, Lloyd points out that LPs contain only amplitude information. Spinning the disc supplies the frequency information, which is why delivering accuracy of speed in both the long term (pitch correctness) and the short term (low wow and flutter), along with low noise (rumble), are a turntable's No.1 job.
Defin-tootley! And in my experience, nothing does that particular job better than a top-notch direct-drive turntable :)
And if you want to own a nice new turntable (which was the case with the Techy until a year ago, before it was discontinued) and don't want to fork out $20,000 for a Monaco, then a Techy is the perfect candidate for suitable modifying.
Marco.
Just imagine if Linn produced a drive similar to the Techy
They nearly did! Ivor Tiefenbrun was quoted as saying that they were going to make the Sondek direct drive but couldn't get a suitable motor at the required cost. So they made it belt drive and the rest is history.
All the anti-DD stuff coming from the flat-earthers ever since was therefore smoke-and-mirrors marketing bullshit.
Stacker45
12-01-2012, 05:06
And you're perfectly entitled to hold that opinion, Serge :)
Let's just say that experience of using/listening to a multitude of T/Ts (some of what could be considered the costly variety) since 1982, tells me that my current T/T, modified as it is, performs like very few others I've heard.
If you switch your focus onto the unique and extremely accurate way a top-notch direct-drive T/T reproduces music (think pitch and speed stability here), which is very important to me, and you'll understand more where I'm coming from. How many NEW top-notch D/D T/Ts are currently available?
I can think of two. One I don't like the look of (Inspire Hi-Fi Monarch), and the other (Grand Prix Audio Monaco), I wouldn't pay the money for. Both of which, however, I'd be confident my T/T would perform well against, which gives you an insight into what can be achieved with a judiciously modified SL-1210.
And 90% of belt-drive T/Ts I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, so that kind of restricts my choice of a high-end T/T, doesn't it, which is precisely why others and I have gone down the modified Techy route - and with great success! ;)
Marco.
I agree that if someone wants a DD the choice is limited,but otherwise,there would be a lot of good belt driven TT to choose from.:)
On a different note,i just recieved my Rek-O-Kut record weight today,and so far i like it very much,improved bass,wider soundstage,and an overall sence of,for lack of a better word,clarity,i don't know if this counts as a mod,probably more as a tweak;)
They nearly did! Ivor Tiefenbrun was quoted as saying that they were going to make the Sondek direct drive but couldn't get a suitable motor at the required cost. So they made it belt drive and the rest is history.
All the anti-DD stuff coming from the flat-earthers ever since was therefore smoke-and-mirrors marketing bullshit.
x2, and you can upgrade slowly and surely as your wallet dictates and mind dictates- there are more and more upgrades coming out all the time, and as Marco said this is part of the fun and enjoy the ride!:)
prestonchipfryer
12-01-2012, 09:16
And let's not forget the aim (for me anyway) is to get the 'best sound for pound' (or dollar) that can be achieved with the sl12**s. Marco is spot on: A modded techhie can and does equal others that cost way more than the upgrades. And it's fun. ;)
John
Agreed, that Technics motor is a galactic class component and I have great respect for the plinth, too. It's far better than a deck of that price had any right to be, and the sky's the limit as to how much it can be modded.
Absolutely, John. Achieving the biggest 'bang for one's buck' (SPPV) is the whole raison d'κtre behind my system-building methodology. The Techy is a big part of that - and it's the exact same for many others here (and elsewhere) :)
It's also important that people without the acquired knowledge and experience recognise what the Techy is about, and acknowledge that intrinsically it is not a budget or mid-priced turntable, even when in stock form, which is why I outlined what I did earlier. If you doubt that, then the question you have to ask yourself is this:
How can a T/T which contains a multiple thousand pound motor unit ever be classified as a budget or mid-priced turntable? That is the fact that one must always remember about the Techy.
In order to save repeating it again and again in future, perhaps I should post it as an announcement, in big bold red letters, at the top of the forum? ;)
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
12-01-2012, 10:08
Maybe a small picture in the forum header of a Technics SL1200/10 could be used. ;)
John
Lol....
The problem is that we're having to fight through, and attempt to overcome, years of deeply ingrained prejudice against the SL-1200, amongst the audiophile fraternity, simply because for so long it was adopted for use by DJs, and also that here in the UK especially, we were brainwashed for years into believing that belt-drive turntables were the only ones that could be taken seriously.
It's therefore this ingrained prejudice (coupled with in some cases voluntary ignorance) which means that in the world of high-end hi-fi, the Techy will never be afforded the respect it deserves, no matter how much is spent on modifying it :rolleyes:
Incidentally, that comment was not aimed at you, Serge, just in case you get the wrong idea! :)
Marco.
I agree that if someone wants a DD the choice is limited,but otherwise,there would be a lot of good belt driven TT to choose from.:)
Oh absolutely, providing that you like how they sound. One thing which is rarely discussed or acknowledged in audio is that all T/T drive systems have an inherent sonic signature: belt, idler, direct-drive; regardless of what 'bits' make up the rest of the turntable (arm, cartridge, etc), all T/T drive systems exhibit their own 'house sound'.
And for some people, once their ears have 'tuned into' what that is, and have selected a clear preference, nothing else will do. This is why, for example, I can rule out owning the vast majority of turntables on the market today which involve the use of a rubber band. Others may feel the same about direct-drives or idlers. At the end of the day, like anything in audio, it's all about choosing your compromises.
Regarding your earlier remark:
No offence,but in my opinion,someone who does all that,is better off buying a different turntable...
Perhaps you can see now that, for some, what you're saying is easier said than done! Hopefully, you now also understand why the Techy aficionados here do what they do... ;)
On a different note,i just recieved my Rek-O-Kut record weight today,and so far i like it very much,improved bass,wider soundstage,and an overall sence of,for lack of a better word,clarity,i don't know if this counts as a mod,probably more as a tweak...
Nice one. I haven't seen the Rek-O-Kut before. Any chance of a pic of it in situ? :)
Marco.
Stacker45
12-01-2012, 16:18
No offence taken Marco :),and by the way,the fact that i'm new to this forum does not automatically make me a newbie.I also think that it's a mistake to juge the knowledge of someone by the equipement that he owns,sometimes it's a matter of budget,and sometimes,and this is my case,it's a matter of choice,i've learned that in this hobby,it's easy to spend a lot of money and be disapointed in the end.
As for the 1200 being a good deck,you'll get no arguments from me,i love my stock 1200,what i don't understand is,if it was such a great deck from the start,peoples wouldn't feel the need to spend so much money on it,it would sound wonderful without any modifications.
I belong to an automobile club,so i'm familliar with the ''mod bug'',some guys have spent more money in modifications,than they've paid for they're cars,that being said,if you start modding because you enjoy it,that's fine,but i think it's important to keep an open mind,and respect the fact that some peoples might see things differently.:)
Stacker45
12-01-2012, 16:27
Oh! and Marco,just to show that there's no hard feeling,here's a pic of the Rek-O-Kut record weight in situ,but before you comment on my setup,remember that i like to keep things simple.;)
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Stacker45/Photo496.jpg
Spectral Morn
12-01-2012, 17:49
Oh! and Marco,just to show that there's no hard feeling,here's a pic of the Rek-O-Kut record weight in situ,but before you comment on my setup,remember that i like to keep things simple.;)
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Stacker45/Photo496.jpg
Ahhhh that's a Revolver Pig. Now either Revolver make it for Rek-O-Kut or someone is making copies of the Pig.
I have one and it is very good, however the weight made by Rudolf A. Bruil is also very good and in my experience is better than the Pig.
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/puck.html
I have changed weights in front of a number of listeners (on a Technics) and they were all shocked by the differences just swapping the weights make.
Regards D S D L
I have one and it is very good, however the weight made by Rudolf A. Bruil is also very good and in my experience is better than the Pig.
Having played with a Michell clamp for a while, I'm back to using my Bruil weight. It's a damned fine all-rounder and suits the Technics very well.
Spectral Morn
12-01-2012, 18:03
Having played with a Michell clamp for a while, I'm back to using my Bruil weight. It's a damned fine all-rounder and suits the Technics very well.
Agreed Martin, that is my experience as well.
Regards D S D L
Stacker45
12-01-2012, 18:20
Ahhhh that's a Revolver Pig. Now either Revolver make it for Rek-O-Kut or someone is making copies of the Pig.
I have one and it is very good, however the weight made by Rudolf A. Bruil is also very good and in my experience is better than the Pig.
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/puck.html
I have changed weights in front of a number of listeners (on a Technics) and they were all shocked by the differences just swapping the weights make.
Regards D S D L
This is the box i recieved yesterday,and you're right, it does make a significant difference ;)
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Stacker45/Photo500.jpg
Having played with a Michell clamp for a while, I'm back to using my Bruil weight. It's a damned fine all-rounder and suits the Technics very well.
Same here, but that's only because, like you (and probably Neil), I'm now using a much lighter platter.
No way does a heavy, or even heavy-ish, weight (such as the Bruil) work with an MN platter, simply because it creates too much mass. In that scenario, a lightweight clamp, like the Michell, is best :)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
12-01-2012, 18:34
Same here, but that's only because, like you (and probably Neil), I'm now using a much lighter platter.
No way does a heavy, or even heavy-ish, weight (such as the Bruil) work with an MN platter, simply because it creates too much mass. In that scenario, a lightweight clamp, like the Michell, is best :)
Marco.
Not my experience at all Marco ;)
Regards D S D L
Lol - when did you get an MN platter? :)
Well, all I can say is that in both Martin's system and mine (when fitted with an MN platter), the Bruil weight made the sound of both our T/Ts become somewhat 'phat' and bloated, and it also compressed dynamics, compared to the more open, detailed, and 'fleet of foot' presentation obtained with the Michell clamp.
However, with the (much lighter) Funk Firm platter, as indeed Martin and I both heard when I was down at his place last time, the Bruil produces a more rhythmically adroit, detailed and cohesive sound, which is simply much more musically interesting and enjoyable to listen to, where the Michell clamp sounds rather 'synthetic' and 'hi-fi' in comparison.
It just shows you how system dependant all this stuff is! :cool:
Marco.
I have added some more possible updates to the list:
1. A good cartridge
2. Remove lid
3. New feet
4. New mat
5. Tonearm damping
6. Tonearm cable
7. New bearing
8. New platter
9. New larger power supply
10. New tonearm
11. Internal chassis or component damping
12. Isolation platform
13. PCB board upgrades
14. Arm board
15. Headshell
16. Disable pitch control
17. Disable strobe light
18. Remove old power supply
19. Disable 45 switch
20. Remove large black internal cover
21. Internal regulator modification in connection with external PSU
22. Renew bearing oil
It's a big list, Jostein, but some of the entries make no sense alone or in conjunction with other mods.
I still think the general upgrade priorities should be:
Mat > PSU > Bearing > Platter > Arm > Cartridge
Most things fall into one of these categories.
Wakefield Turntables
16-01-2012, 13:04
Just noticed your post. I'd forget modifications 11, 17,19 and 22 if I were you. I've done these and I cant say that on there own they add anything to the techie, but when done with other mods they may, so I'll let you experiment. :) With regards the tonearm mods, why not just get a fixed head shell and when your buying your tonearm send it to audio origami and then get him to tweek to your hearts content, else, spec out a tonearm that fulfils all your needs and then you dont need to upgrade all the time. You also dont need to change the bearing oil, if you buy a MN bearing he supplies some with it so in effect this is something you dont have to worry about. Hope this helps save you some time.
I don't think I will perform all these updates to my Techie, mostly the bearing, platter and some more in due time. The original post and list was meant as an input for discussion on which possible updates can be done, and which will give a significant upgrade in sound, as well as showing some updates that are good and cheap(remove the lid). :) Many updates are also working in synergy, so that is another consideration to make before shelling out some money for them.
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