Transfer MiniDisc recording to PC digitally?

[Mr Nad]

I've decided it's time to retire the MiniDisc recorder.

The problem I have is that I need to transfer the recording to CD to keep them usable. I know I can do this very easily using a standard phono to 3.5mm jack and recording to the PC, but I'd rather keep it all digital.

Does anybody know of a reasonably priced device that will allow me to transfer the digital signal using either TOSLINK or SPDIF. Maybe there's a something that will plug into the USB port?

I've searched, but all I can find is USB to SPDIF. No good for me as I need to go in the other direction.

Anybody able to help? (If I can record directly to a CD recorder using standard CD-Rs that is an acceptable solution to me, though I would prefer to use the PC if possible.)

[dave2010]

Don't the NetMD and HiMD players/recorders permit this? Interesting that this question has come up now, as some people I know want to do this too. One of them has a built in MD playback deck - probably from before USB snd oher interfaces came out. Doing the job in real time using the analogue out does not seem clever, and would lower quality. I have offered to do this using my NetMD or HiMD recorders, but not tried it yet.

[Reid Malenfant]

I may be totally wrong here, but I think you'll have a bit of difficulty doing a purely digital transfer, or if you can I reckon you'll have a problem playing the CD :scratch:

The thing with minidisc is they use different CODECs to loose a load of what should be masked information so as to fit a full length CD on a much smaller disc.

Now not many CD players will play MP3 discs, let alone something that might be ATRAC or ATRAC type R or whatever codec is built into whatever machine it is you happen to have. Though I could be out by a country mile here :eyebrows:


What I'd suggest you do is see if the digital output can be played back through a conventional DAC, if it can then you may well be in luck. I'd also suggest if you have any pre recorded MDs that you try it with those, but make sure you also do it for any that you have recorded yourself as then you'll be using the inbuilt CODEC.


The main thing though is I'm sure you'll need a CD player that can handle MP3 type discs unless you use the analogue outs & then record to CD.

[dave2010]

Mark

I can't swear to it, but I think you may be wrong. One problem with minidiscs is/was the DRM. Depending on what the discs are it might be possible to upload them using NetMD or HiMD devices. I think in the end Sony did abandon the DRM, though before they did so there were several irate users who were disgusted at not being able to upoad material they had recorded, and for which they had the copyright.

You are right that some of the MDs may have been recorded in different codecs, such as ATRAC, though later models may also have done mp3, and the very latest models did PCM recordings suitably encoded. Asssuming there's no DRM barrier, it should be possible to upload into SonicStage http://www.google.com/search?q=sonicstage, and then do the appropriate conversion, if needed, to mp3. It should be possible to recover to WAV, in which case making CDs is straightforward, though many may prefer to keep the uploaded data as files.

[Canetoad]

If the MD was recorded using analogue inputs the maximum quality you can get (not later HQ) will be 24/44.1. If using digital inputs it will be at whatever the source was recorded at up to th 24/44.1 max on the MD recorder. That's how my Sony MDS-JB930 works. :)

[Reid Malenfant]

Yes, as I pointed out it's quite possible I'm wrong :D I was just going through a few scenarios.. At the end of the day though the music will be recoverable one way or the other :)

[Mr Nad]

NetMD only allows USB transfer to the MD, not back to the PC.

I recognise that a purely digital transfer isn't possible inasmuch as the file on MD is ATRAC encoded. However, I should still be able to use the digital out from the MD (which will be decoded) to a digital input on the PC.

At least, that is what I believe to be the case. But the problem now is finding a suitable sound card. That is my next quest.

[Reid Malenfant]

I recognise that a purely digital transfer isn't possible inasmuch as the file on MD is ATRAC encoded. However, I should still be able to use the digital out from the MD (which will be decoded) to a digital input on the PC.
Ah, you may be right & I hadn't thought of that :eyebrows: After all if it has a digital input it still needs to ATRAC encode that digital input to put it on the minidisc. So I guess it follows that any digital out will be decoded ATRAC...

Hmmm, you live & learn :)

[dave2010]

NetMD only allows USB transfer to the MD, not back to the PC.

I recognise that a purely digital transfer isn't possible inasmuch as the file on MD is ATRAC encoded. However, I should still be able to use the digital out from the MD (which will be decoded) to a digital input on the PC.

At least, that is what I believe to be the case. But the problem now is finding a suitable sound card. That is my next quest.
I have a HiMD unit as well as one or more NetMDs. I thought they could recover the data with some of the later versions of SonicStage.

I don't think the ATRAC encoding is really a big problem. It can either be decoded by the device or in software I think, if the data can be captured.

If you use the optical out you might be able to get digital data, though I don't know of any which don't convert to analogue. Perhaps sometimes this is possible, or the audio stream can be intercepted. Other problems may arise from doing the playback in real time, and also there can be interference from other processes while doing this, so more care is needed.

I guess for you it'll depend on how many MDs you have to process, and how concerned you are about what's on them. You'll also have to reformat the contents back into tracks.

I'm slightly busy now, but might have a go with my HiMD machine later this week to check out possibilities. I still feel it's possible to use a machine like that for jobs like this.

[dave2010]

Out of devilment just plugged my HiMD machine in to USB on my Mac. The battery was run down, so left it for a few minutes to charge. It seemed to be doing things, so I then looked around on my desktop to see if anything had appeared. There was a drive called NO NAME, and I found it had these files on it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48952723@N00/6672532021/in/photostream

{I don't know yet how to put images in here - will work on this}

It does seem that the uploads work, though I don't know what these files are. I notice that the later versions of the Sony software were supposed to be Mac compatible. I can try again later on a PC to see if I can upload there.

I've not tracked the Mac versions down yet.

The uploads only took a couple of minutes.

[dave2010]

I have now uploaded tracks from a HiMD disc to a computer they were not generated on. Some of the tracks are copyright (from a CD - which I own) - and uploaded OK, and have been converted to WAV. The track details are retained.

One of the tracks was not one I expected. It is from 10-Hi-5 Next Magazine December 15, 2004 - at least that's what it says on the track info.

See image at http://www.flickr.com/photos/48952723@N00/6673432883/in/photostream - still working on embedding images!

Ah - it has a Swedish commentary, so ... I think it maybe goes into Carl Nielsen's violin concerto - though it's beginning to sound like Carmen fantasy.

The next step is to see if I can do this with tracks from a "regular" MD disc. I do have some, but couldn't find any when I set out this morning.

If (as I hope) that works too, then I will have found a perfectly viable way of doing the transfers as required without using analogue connections anywhere.

The sound quality at first hearing is pretty much what I'd expected - rather good - but it won't be as good from regular MD tracks if I can get them done. It should still be better than using the audio/optical output, and will take much less time to do - if it's feasible.

PS: This is the kind of device I used - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Hi-MD-MZ-RH1-All-original-accessories-/160706732549?pt=UK_CE_Cassette_RL&hash=item256ade2205 (Sony Hi-MD MZ-RH1) - at even greater cost than I paid for mine. If you look around these may crop up cheaper from time to time. Not sure if new is feasible now.

There are some [much] cheaper machines (e.g NetMD or other Hi-MD) machines available, but I'm not sure if they have the same capabilities for upload.

[dave2010]

I have now repeated with some slight variants the procedure to upload minidiscs using my HiMD player/recorder. So far this seems only to be possible using Windows. The original software was for Windows, but there may have been some Mac software available from around 2007 - possibly even Sony versions, but I've not tracked any down yet. There have also been a few attempts at open source software. One is called Jsymphonic - written in Java. I downloaded that, but haven't been successful in getting it working yet. See, for example, http://shinypixel.co.uk/2009/06/02/finally-a-decent-alternative-to-sonicstage-jsymphonic/

Returning home, I thought I'd download the Sonicstage 4.3 software again on to another PC. Not really too difficult, as I'd already done this elsewhere.

Then I looked out some old minidiscs. I knew next to nothing about these, as I bought them off eBay, so they were clearly not recorded by me (except for one, which I'd obviously reformatted), and I had no idea how they had been recorded.

This is where I have to report partial success. Some of the tracks won't upload. I get a message something like "This track was recorded using NetMD or on another computer". However this did not apply to all tracks, and some of them uploaded fine. Thus I was able to listen (from .wav files) to The Rime of the Ancient Mariner (Iron Maiden) and to something labelled as Dj Md Lady V - off different minidiscs.

I also discovered one which I think I must have recorded with Dvorak and Smetana. That was quite interesting, as some of the tracks wouldn't upload - and gave the same error message. I can't remember how I did the recording, but I may have been testing out different codecs and formats, so the tracks were not all recorded in the same way. I may have recorded them on a NetMD recorder. I have a recollection (from the Minidisc page of Wikipedia) that some of the formats don't work on all the machines, so it may be that if I use a NetMD player I can recover those tracks as well.

The net result though is that I can confirm that it is definitely possible to recover the data off some minidiscs digitally using a HiMD player/recorder. I'll now try to find my NetMD player/recorders to see if they can recover the remaining tracks, perhaps using the Dvorak/Smetana disc as a test disc.

It doesn't seem that easy to figure out how each track has been recorded - what codecs are used, what level of compression etc. Maybe there is a way - but for tracks which upload OK there is no problem anyway, as the device sorts this out, and tracks are optionally converted to .wav and can be stored in a folder in a suitable music library.

I'm not sure if this is still of interest to the OP - but it is feasible, and avoids all the bother of having to recue all the track start and end points, and also does import the track labels, and is somewhat faster than real time operation - as I suspected.

[Reid Malenfant]

Sterling work Dave :) Well done that man!

[Mr Nad]

Thank you for all your investigations. Your results are interesting, and I have a theory about them.

If you record digitally to MD from a CD, a flag is added that will prevent the recording on MD being copied digitally a second time. You can copy using an analogue method.

I would imagine that the software you are using is reading that flag and preventing a digital copy being made. If this is the case, then most of my recordings could be easily transferred (many were made from vinyl, tapes, or PC). A few may not be easily transferred.

This all looks quite promising...

[dave2010]

Lenny

I think it's definitely worth downloading Sonicstage 4.3 and installing it. Even if some tracks won't upload (I'm still working on that), you can feed the output of the Minidisc player to another recording device using either the analogue or digital output, and control those tracks from the software. I've just been testing that out, to check that it works. It does!

That might make for an easier workflow than trying to do it on the device itself.

I've still not given up on doing the whole thing digitally. The sound quality from the better recorded tracks on the discs I've got is very good, though some are clearly limited. You're fairly obviously not going to get significantly better than the sound you are already used to from the discs. I was going to say that it would be obvious that you can't do better, but actually that's not quite the case - depending on the electronics (if you use an analogue route), or on the algorithms used for decoding/replay. Sometimes later developments, even on playback, can make a difference - though they are unlikely. I think the DAC used in some of the Sony units might actually be very good.

Let us know how you get on. I'll try the NetMD units later in the week, if I can find them!

Re your theory about multiple copying - I'd say "No". They used to do that, or something similar, but clearly some of the tracks I recorded were from CDs, and I was able to upload them without any problems. They might have a count, but if so, it's clearly more than one. I think that Sony gave up on all that in the end, so I don't actually think the DRM flags are significant any more.

[Mr Nad]

So to clarify - the HiMD units will allow me to transfer standard MD recordings to the PC?

Is this done via USB? If so , file transfers are going to be FAST?!

[dave2010]

So to clarify - the HiMD units will allow me to transfer standard MD recordings to the PC?

Is this done via USB? If so , file transfers are going to be FAST?!
Yes and yes, but with the proviso that it might not work for some tracks, and you don't necessarily know before you try. I'll report back when I've confirmed either that any track can be uploaded - though possibly in different machines, or that some tracks cannot be done via USB, and either have to be done by analogue or the digital ausdio out.

The upload time on an approx 15 minute track is around 2 or 3 mins including converting to WAV. Also, if a disc is uploadable, it is possible to leave the software running and come back say 10 mins later.

How many discs have you got to do?

[Mr Nad]

Hm, this sounds very promising. I only have about 30-40 discs to to, possibly fewer as they were from CDs that I can probably find again. But many are personal recordings that are irreplaceable, hence the need to transfer them with the highest fidelity possible.

Can any HiMD unit be used? The price of the one (link earlier in the thread) is more than I can afford at the moment.

[dave2010]

Lenny

Do you know how they were recorded? I think the best chance is if they weren't recorded with NetMD, but I'm still working on that. For the CDs I'd suggest just rippng them again if you can track them down. This time use a lossless format - probably flac, though I use alac for use with iTunes. I'm still tracking down my NetMD units, to see if one of those will recover the tracks using Sonicstage.

If it does work then you can get a NetMD device for much less than a HiMD one, and there should be some on eBay. They're not always in such good condition though. My view is that the HiMD units are/were better made, but as you note they can be pricey, even SH.

Clearly your personal tracks are the ones to recover. How many of those have you got? Twenty maybe?

[Mr Nad]

I was under the impression that NetMD does not allow transfer TO a PC via USB, which is something that irked many people.

All my MD were recorded on standard MD recorders. Sometimes digitally (TOSLINK), sometimes via a microphone, sometimes via phono. Many of the transfers were from compact cassettes, and I no longer have a high quality deck, so I'd want to maintain the quality of those recordings.

At the moment there is great urgency, but I'd like to commence the transfer sooner rather than later just to keep my mind at rest.

If I have to buy a new sound card with digital inputs, I'll go down that route, slow as it will be...

[dave2010]

You do seem to be right about the NetMD units. I thought since they can use the same software interface that they might just work. However, with SonicStage 4.3 they just refuse to upload, whereas the HiMD units work - at least sometimes - more often than not I think, though I'm not guaranteeing anything. It can still depend how the originals were recorded.

You might find it worth getting a NetMD unit anyway, since you can at least connect it and use that to control the tracks being played - via either analogue or presumably the optical connector, which might make the process of getting things done easier. The way to do that would be to connect the NetMD unit, then the optical link back to your sound card. I'd be interested to know if that would work, but it's not worth buying a more expensive NetMD unit - though some are available cheaply. You can also copy and paste the track details from SonicStage into other places - I've just checked that, so that might be of use to you.

The HiMD ones, on the other hand, do stand a reasonable chance of being able to upload your files. That could be the way to go if you can get a unit at reasonable price.

I'm guessing that with this more or less obsolete stuff, that there'll be no interest in third party or open source software either, so it's unlikely that there'll be any other quick way of getting the job done.

I do have to say that I'm quite impressed by some of the recordings I have. I think the sound from the HiMD unit is better via the inbuilt DAC, but if you're going to take the optical output then there really shouldn't be any difference between NetMD and HiMd.

Good luck - and keep in touch.

[dave2010]

Minidisc players and recorders are now a curiosity. Indeed, I am curious to know why there are still quite a few for sale on eBay, and why some still fetch high prices. Some of the Net MD models have gone recently for over £60, and generally they go for more than £20 - depending on model. The Hi-MD models fetch quite a lot more, and are typically £150 upwards, and it doesn't seem to depend much on what model they are.

Having read and experimented with some of these again recently I am still puzzled. Net MD in particular seem to be pretty pointless, as it's much harder to get any output from them, and recording using Net MD devices may make it just about impossible to recover the data - at least digitally, and definitely not faster than real time. I think there were even Net MD units which didn't have any analogue output! [maybe I imagined that - what would be the point - probably I read a bad spec. document!]

Hi-MD devices are not bad, though for most people surely some form of digital solid state player would be better. Even for recording there are other devices now - such as the Zoom microphones (e.g http://www.amazon.co.uk/ZOOM-H4N-RECORDER/dp/B002WQFJII/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326974243&sr=8-1), which go straight to flash memory, and appear to give good results (though I've not tried these).

Most of us who have ever had minidiscs have clearly not looked at the specifications in details. Many purchasers and users did not realise the obstacles that Sony put in the way of recovering any audio, and in some cases that caused them big problems.

There's not much point in expecting a Net MD device to have a digital output, as the whole point of that range of machines seems to have been to prevent any form of digital transmission of recorded material - even if the owner of the kit had the copyright!

I think that most of the Hi-MD units also lack digital optical outputs.

However, it does seem that there have been some units - certainly some deck models - which have had digital optical outputs. Maybe the JE510 deck did/has - http://www.wired4sound.net.au/sources/sony_minidisk/sony_minidisk.htm

I'd be interested to know if there's a list of such units (model numbers) which do have digital optical out. Even if these could only do real time transfers, some people might find that very useful.

Apparently, for some units (decks) which lacked digital output, it was a fairly easy modification to add an optical output - but again one would need to have some specialist knowledge to do this. [Example - http://www.minidisc.org/sony_mdsje440_optical_out_mod.html]

There were also some suggestions that even portable players could be modded to provide optical output, but I can't find the details.

Of course using a deck or minidisc player/recorder with optical out would still mean that only recordings made using one of the compression formats (usually ATRAC) could be played back through an optical out.

[Canetoad]

I'm pretty sure on some models you can take the input signal and run it through the onboard ADC and output result digitally from optical out, effectively using the MD recorder as a straight ADC. Max resolution though would probably only be 24/44.1. :scratch:

[Mr Nad]

Some units, the portables, have a headphone socket that also doubles as optical out. ALL the portables I have owned - Sony, Aiwa, Sharp - all worked this way. the connector for the optical out is a little weird looking - slightly longer than a normal 3.5mm jack.

-----------

I have now received my cheap soundcard from ebuyer. I'm not interested in it for analogue audio quality, only the digital input, so there was little point in going for a hyper expensive one (besides, I have one of those already, and rarely use it; no digital input, however...).

Anyway, I've testing it now, and I have to say the sound it produces is surprisingly clear. I'm playing MD optical out to PC optical in, and I'm pleasantly surprised at the clarity and richness of the sound. The theme to Newsnight sounds particularly dramatic and deep.

It's looking like I will be able to transfer the discs relatively easily after all, albeit in real time.

If I could record direct to CD with markers that would be so much better... but I'll just have to contend with placing the markers in manually.

[dave2010]

Interesting you say that all the portables have optical out. That's not the impression I've had from a lot of the specs, but maye in the context of these units "Line out" does mean optical output via the headphone outlet. This would be similar to the outputs on the iMacs. Maybe units which specify optical out also have a more standard Toslink output.

I recovered two MDs for a friend today. We discovered that we could edit track names and the disc name using Net MD with SonicStage. However, as expected, it was not possible to upload from Net MD to SS. We did manage to upload using the Hi-MD unit, but we discovered this was much easier with track and disc names filled in, as SS manages to hide the tracks away. It makes sense to force the import folder explicitly before attempting this, as otherwise SS puts the file in an arcane folder under All Users. Force this by looking at Options/Preferences beforehand, otherwise you may find it's really hard to trace the files.

Once we found files in the folder we'd set up it was dead easy to import them into iTunes, then to burn a CD which we wanted to do.

For anyone trying this, I'd say it's much easier to use SS to create or edit the track names on the discs before uploading. It is possiible to do this later, but since the info is imported into players such as iTunes it does make sense to at least get helpful and meaningful names in first. if you get this right first off, there is very little need to change it later. OTOH having ten or more imports of Track 01, Track 02 etc. is really not clever!

We did the two MDs in about 1 hour 30 mins, but a lot of that time was spent checking, and putting labels on tracks, and then burning the CD. I think a ready to go MD can be uploaded in less than 10 mins.

[Mr Nad]

All the tracks on my discs are named, so I guess mine must be ready to go. I'll look out for a cheap Hi-MD unit on eBay, but I am a little reluctant to spend more on retiring technology...

But it would save a lot of time.

[dave2010]

All the tracks on my discs are named, so I guess mine must be ready to go. I'll look out for a cheap Hi-MD unit on eBay, but I am a little reluctant to spend more on retiring technology...

But it would save a lot of time.Lenny

The Hi-MD units are still quite expensive, and not much less than the new price a few years ago. Also i don't know if all the Hi-MD models are equally good for your purposes. The only one I know or sure works is the MZ-RH1.

You could probably buy one, then sell it back on eBay in a month or two and you might not lose a lot. I sometimes think that'd be a good idea, but in truth I've never sold anything that way. Some people may do that successfully though, and have the courage not only to buy, but also to sell things.

If you can face it I could imagine it costing you (with luck) no more than £30, which could be reasonable, and only £1-2 per MD, and should get the job done.

[Mr Nad]

...for most people surely some form of digital solid state player would be better. Even for recording there are other devices now - such as the Zoom microphones...

I have a Zoom H2. It is very well supported by the manufacturer with regular firmware updates.

The on-board microphones records a superb, clean sound. They are exceptional devices with a range of recording modes and formats. I use mine a fair bit, and they capture the live ambiance extremely well. :):):)

Mine has a line level and mic level input. There is a mic sensitivity switch, but this does introduce a fair bit of noise, unfortunately. And there are no balanced inputs (the H4 does have balanced inputs).

It will record as WAV or as MP3, mono or stereo (or surround, using two stereo tracks recorded from the 4 onboard mics) and sample rate/bit rate can be changed

Several times the sound quality has caught me out. I have used it to record sound tracks for videos, and the audio is so clean I have on several occasions run to answer the phone, only to discover the sound was coming from the video :doh::mental::doh::mental::doh::mental:

I do use the Zoom H2 more than I ever used my portable minidisc.

They are very plasticy, though, and are subject to a lot of handling noise. that's the major criticism I have. I'll try to post a sample if anyone is interested.

[Mr Nad]

DRAT! :doh:

There's some kind of clock sync issue that is messing with the recordings. Everything I've recorded to PC now plays too fast and with an obvious pitch shift. :steam:

Using Adobe audition I can use a different clock signal (the one passed from MD to PC via SPDIF), but although recording will then play back at the correct speed, there are scores of dropouts.:scratch:

Darn it. Looks like I might have to go for a HI-MD, and that will eat into my 'New Speakers' budget (which currently has a balance of zero:doh::steam:)

[Mr Nad]

So to clarify - the HiMD units will allow me to transfer standard MD recordings to the PC?

To answer myself, now that I have a Hi-MD unit... NO:doh:

The manual for the unit, and the the guide for the software clearly state that recordings made on a standard MD deck cannot be transferred.

[quote]You cannot import tracks... that have been recorded on a device that does not support Hi-MD mode.[quote]

So it's back to s l o w transfers for me for the time being.

[dave2010]

To answer myself, now that I have a Hi-MD unit... NO:doh:

The manual for the unit, and the the guide for the software clearly state that recordings made on a standard MD deck cannot be transferred.

[quote]You cannot import tracks... that have been recorded on a device that does not support Hi-MD mode.[quote]

So it's back to s l o w transfers for me for the time being.
Lenny

Unless your machine is significantly different from mine, and Sony didn't make all Hi-MD devices with the same characteristics - it IS doable.

I've been round the whole thing with a few MDs which I didn't create. Some, which may have been done using a computer or on a Net MD machine do not upload. Others do, and they take about 1/8 approx real time.

There are some things to do.

1. Make sure you know where Sonicstage puts its library. Indeed, better still is to force it somewhere you know. Otherwise its default is under All Users (Win XP).

2. When you first connect the Hi-MD unit it may work OK. Later on you may find that in the Hi-MD setting you get a warning that the MD tracks can't be uploaded, and that the MD will need to be reformatted and you'll lose all the data. Don't do that. Instead reset the drop down menu to Net MD (with the HI-MD unit connected) and try again.

3. When you find an MD which can be uploaded you should get a message saying it's possible to import, and asking if you want to convert to WAV. Answer yes! It uploads to the Sonicstage library first, then pauses for a short while, then does the WAV conversion. Don't abort the process after the initial upload.

4. When you've done this you should end up with a track or tracks in Sonicstage which you can play. However you may find that you can't see the WAVs. The files in the Sonicstage library will be ATRAC files.

5. You can do a search for .WAV to track down the files. To save you time I suggest you look in My Music.

I tried this with a friend's computer. We also played around with Net MD devices. If you really want to slow things up (DON'T DO THIS) plug the Net MD machine in, then switch to the Hi-MD machine. The Hi-MD machine will then upload any tracks very slowly, though it will still do it.

There was a reason for doing this - to do with my not wanting to leave the Hi-MD machine with him for a long while as he needs to do track labelling on his MDs, otherwise we'll have a lot of tracks labelled Track 001 etc., which willl cause confusion.
Indeed, that is still an area where I need to check out that we can relabel a track on a Net MD machine without making it impossible to upload later. My advice to others would be to avoid Net MD machines altogether while trying to upload any older MDs.

It CAN be done!

PS: Here are a few images which might just help:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48952723@N00/6787859885/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48952723@N00/6787859621/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48952723@N00/6673432883/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48952723@N00/6787900971/in/photostream
This one shows .WAV conversion

[Mr Nad]

1. Make sure you know where Sonicstage puts its library. Indeed, better still is to force it somewhere you know. Otherwise its default is under All Users (Win XP).

Done this. :)


2. When you first connect the Hi-MD unit it may work OK. Later on you may find that in the Hi-MD setting you get a warning that the MD tracks can't be uploaded, and that the MD will need to be reformatted and you'll lose all the data. Don't do that. Instead reset the drop down menu to Net MD (with the HI-MD unit connected) and try again.

It has never worked for me. :steam:


3. When you find an MD which can be uploaded you should get a message saying it's possible to import, and asking if you want to convert to WAV. Answer yes! It uploads to the Sonicstage library first, then pauses for a short while, then does the WAV conversion. Don't abort the process after the initial upload.

I have only ever received this message if the MD is formatted as Hi-MD. No other MDs work.


4. When you've done this you should end up with a track or tracks in Sonicstage which you can play. However you may find that you can't see the WAVs. The files in the Sonicstage library will be ATRAC files.


5. You can do a search for .WAV to track down the files. To save you time I suggest you look in My Music.

Sony Vegas will read the ATRAC files without any problem, and I can prepare CDs that way, to having WAV files available isn't imperative for me.

Still completely perplexed as to Sony's faulty reasoning on the transfer of MD recordings :scratch::mental::steam:

[dave2010]

Done this. :)



It has never worked for me. :steam:



I have only ever received this message if the MD is formatted as Hi-MD. No other MDs work.



Sony Vegas will read the ATRAC files without any problem, and I can prepare CDs that way, to having WAV files available isn't imperative for me.

Still completely perplexed as to Sony's faulty reasoning on the transfer of MD recordings :scratch::mental::steam:Really sorry about this. It looks as though it's either the particular Hi-MD unit, or the Vista Sonicstage then.

I'd hesitate to say that Sony's reasoning was faulty, but it wasn't clever. At the time the MD units were relatively cheap, and arguably Sony were maximising their revenue. They seem not to have given a stuff about the perhaps small fraction of users who generated their own material. I think they did have quite a large number of satisfied customers before the MD system was killed off by new developments such as MP3 players and iPods. They also managed to make a small number very angry!

I didn't know about Vegas, though not sure how useful that'd be for me.

One other thing I don't know is whether Sony actually blocked the optical output from units such as the MZ-N910, which has an optical output, in the case that a digitally recorded disc is played.

[Mr Nad]

MD was designed to allow one digital copy to be made. After that, no more digital copies were permitted.

What really hacks me off is that Sonic Stage will happily rip a copyrighted CD and transfer that to an MD, but not transfer an MD back to PC!

I've tried setting the MD to Hi-MD mode, but Sonic Stage is still having none of it. My disks have never seen a Net MD, and were not transferred to MD from a computer. Most of them are analogue recordings and irreplaceable. And these are, naturally the ones I really need to transfer.

Ah well. Back to Optical on the PC and all the problems that brings with it...

[dave2010]

Lenny

Do you have, or can you borrow a Win XP machine? I actually think that might be cheaper than trying to get a different Hi-MD unit. As yet we don't really know whether the problems you've enountered are due to Sonicstage or to the recorder. I think you could do it on your Win XP netbook. It might not go fast but I hope it should work.

I've noticed that some people have said there are problems with Vista - perhaps due to the different drivers.

[Mr Nad]

I have tried this on my WinXp machine, but with the same result. I'll give it another shot, though I don't hold out much hope.

I'm using Sonic Stage 4.3, FWIW.

[dave2010]

Lenny

I'll see if I can find or borrow other Hi-MD units to replicate your situation.

I was hoping that all/most Hi-MD devices would be similar, but perhaps that is not the case. I wondered if I was imagining my own successes with MDs, but I've done this with several, so I'm sure it's possible.

What kind of material are you trying to transfer? Music, speech, family stuff?
You can tell me to MYOB about this, but it might help to set the context of how vital digital transfers are, and your motivations. For example, you might be wanting to replicate these for other family members, or you might simply want to protect yourself against the future possibility of not being able to play these because of lack of working hardware, as such equipment becomes harder to find. Obviously at present you've only got one set of "masters"' and if you could get these digitally copied then replication in the future will be a lot easier, while the quality loss with analogue transfers might not be acceptable to you.

Lastly, are there any differences between different players(hardware/software) for ATRAC material? According to what I've read most of the differences between ATRAC recordings would arise at the recording stage, rather than playback. I don't know enough about this. With MP3 most players give similar results, at least as regards the digital output stream, though in the past some MP3 decoders did, IMO, give better results. I just wonder if it is worth finding the best ATRAC playback devices (or software decoders) and whether there could be any differences between these and other units. Sony and others have written that there is no difference between different playback systems, at least regarding the digital data, but then they might well say that mightn't they.

[Mr Nad]

I agree that the principal differences should be in the version of ATRAC and the quality of the DAC. There may be other differences such as the ability of some units to stamp the date and time on a recording. So why you can transfer recordings when I cannot is frustrating.

I have a mix of recordings. The music, I'm not so bothered about. I can find most of that again. But I have some recording from television and radio that are virtually impossible to find, and certainly not of the quality I have. Although valuable to me, they are nowhere near as valuable as the others.

These are my home recordings dating back 20 years. My dad, my dogs,my nephews as children, the birth of my eldest, the voices of my children as they learned to speak...

They are the ones that I desperately want to transfer with the highest possible quality. Now that MD has been killed off, I want to make sure that I am not left up the creek should my decks (or the disk, come to think of it) malfunction.

I'll be making backups to CD , data DVD, and hard disks (three copies of each, all stored in different locations). They are are to valuable to me to lose. And I really should have done this sooner. Don't know why I didn't (although I did back up to PC and another minidisc for some of them).

[dave2010]

Lenny

I've seen a black swan. Therefore all swans are black.

[ A variant on the usual... ]

I've seen files transferred using a a Hi-MD recorder. Therefore all Hii-MD recorders will transfer files.


As you've discovered, this is not true - though you've not seen any files transferred.

All I can say for sure now is that I have a particular Hi-MD machine, a model MZ-RH1, and that behaves in a way which would be useful for you.

I have tried another model - an MZ-NH1 and that behaves as you describe. Either a message saying that a disc is write protected appears, or a message saying that it was recorded on another computer, or with NetMD appears.

With the MZ-RH1 the message about the NetMD/computer only appears on some MDs, which presumably were recorded using NetMD.

I am sorry to have led you up a wrong path. According to various forums the Hi-MDs all behave similarly. They do not!

I am now uncertain as to whether any other models of these Hi-MD machines, other than the MZ-RH1, behave in the way which allows uploading of MDs - possibly not.

I do believe that an MZ-RH1 would transfer your MDs, but unfortunately these are relatively pricey.

If anyone discovers another Hi-MD model which will do this, it would be useful to know, but it could be that the MZ-RH1 is the only one. Certainly early Hi-MD units, such as the MZ-NH1, do not transfer back to the PC.

[dave2010]

Now discovered another upload route for some files, but maybe only ones generated on a Hi-MD machine. There's a tool called Hi-MD Music Transfer which has been developed for Macs. As with most of these things it's a bit iffy. When it works it works, when it doesn't .... it just doesn't - no reasons, no error messages, zilch, ingenting.

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-download.pl?upd_id=2236&PASSVAL2=SMB&mdl=MZM100

Not sure if we're really supposed to know about this or use it in the UK, but it does download, and it does run under Mac OS 10.6.

One possibly useful feature is that it may tell you the codec used for each of the tracks on a disc, which can at times be helpful.

Looks as though any routes out of MiniDisc decks using optical links (mostly - hardly any - maybe Japanese models - or even none - have coax output) are always blocked if the unit detects that the recorded input was digital, though not sure if it's quite that. Depends if the digital SPDIF coding has codes for DRM/copyrighted material. If so, then maybe some digital material could be replicated, but I'm guessing that they took the easy way out and just blocked anything which was marked as having been recorded via a digital channel.

Not quite sure how this affects the one curious twin MiniDisc deck I noted - http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MDS-W1.html Just found another - Denon did a twin deck machine for DJs - the Denon DN-M2300R. Using those machines which are somewhat esoteric, it just might be possible to duplicate discs, and then do something else with them.