Another new Dacmagic [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

bobbasrah

08-01-2012, 09:07

It looks nice cosmetically, has a hi-rez usb input and if it sounds good its going to sell by the shed load.
The budget dac sector is certainly hotting up.

+1 ;)
It should be very interesting to see what the verdict is on sound quality with their implementation of that chip, but it certainly is nice to see a UKish product compete at that price point.
Not sure that the 192 will matter to a lot of folk thoughs, but at least it ticks all the boxes on inputs. I can forsee another heated debate arising here over the use of usb though....:rolleyes:

roob

08-01-2012, 09:55

I am looking to get a headphone system together for my conservatory(macbook>firewireHD>dac>Shiit Asgard>akg701)) this could be ideal if it sounds decent via usb, I shall wait until some reviews and user feedback becomes available though.

Werner Berghofer

08-01-2012, 10:30

Andrew,

this could be ideal if it sounds decent via usb

why are you planning to use USB to connect to your DAC? Isn’t your MacBook euqipped with a combined 3.5 mm analogue/Toslink headphone output?

Werner.

roob

08-01-2012, 11:04

Hi Werner
Yes it does but that is the way I connect (usb>async usb) on my main rig, I will give the other method a try though, have you tried both ways?

Werner Berghofer

08-01-2012, 11:08

Andrew,

have you tried both ways?

yes, and I certainly prefer the Toslink connection.

Werner.

roob

08-01-2012, 11:10

Were you using a dac equiped with an async/galvanically isolated input?

Werner Berghofer

08-01-2012, 11:24

Andrew,

Were you using a dac equiped with an async/galvanically isolated input?

yes, a Schiit Bifrost (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7) with USB option. Maybe I’m brain-washed, but the Schiit designers also suggest using Toslink instead of USB (see → Bifrost FAQ (http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-bifrost/) for more details).

Werner.

roob

08-01-2012, 11:46

Thats interesting I have a mini > toslink lead somewhere I will try it, I have been told that the digital output on the MB suffers from quite high levels of jitter so I am surprised by your findings.

Werner Berghofer

08-01-2012, 11:53

Andrew,

I am surprised by your findings.

find out if you hear a difference using your own ears. And if you’re really curious, connect your DAC via USB to your MacBook, put on a headphone and turn up the amp’s volume to a high level. But don’t play any music, just scroll for example through an open browser window. You shall be amazed (and shocked) how much electronic junk is being transported via USB.

Then, repeat the same test procedure with the DAC connected via Toslink and make up your mind. And don’t forget to return to this thread to share your discovery with us.

Werner.

StanleyB

08-01-2012, 11:54

What had the jitter on the motherboard got to do with USB or TOSLINK?

roob

08-01-2012, 11:59

MB=Macbook
MBP=Macbook Pro
;)

Werner Berghofer

08-01-2012, 13:08

Andrew,

MB=Macbook
MBP=Macbook Pro

yes, I’m familiar with these abbreviations, but I fear I don’t get completely what you try to say here. With the exception of the MacBook Air all Apple laptop models are equipped with a combined 3.5 mm analogue/Toslink socket. Do you think the digital output quality of the MacBook is not identical to the MacBook Pro?

Werner.

bobbasrah

08-01-2012, 14:13

Andrew,

yes, I’m familiar with these abbreviations, but I fear I don’t get completely what you try to say here. With the exception of the MacBook Air all Apple laptop models are equipped with a combined 3.5 mm analogue/Toslink socket. Do you think the digital output quality of the MacBook is not identical to the MacBook Pro?

Werner.

I suspect that the explanation for Stan who may have interpreted MB as motherboard. No worries.

roob

08-01-2012, 14:19

I suspect that the explanation for Stan who may have interpreted MB as motherboard. No worries.

That is correct.

Werner Berghofer

08-01-2012, 14:24

Bob,

I suspect that the explanation for Stan who may have interpreted MB as motherboard.

holy cow, you’re right :-) I just couldn’t imagine that anyone in this business might not be familiar with the terms Apple MB and Apple MBP.

It might help to always include the name of the person to which a reply is adressed to.

Werner.

bobbasrah

08-01-2012, 15:03

Bob,

holy cow, you’re right :-) I just couldn’t imagine that anyone in this business might not be familiar with the terms Apple MB and Apple MBP.

It might help to always include the name of the person to which a reply is adressed to.

Werner.

Well, not am Apple devotee, so I re-read it then realised what was meant by Andrew's query to you Werner, these things happen.:rolleyes:
It is very easy to get terms mixed up particularly in the English language as the terms change. In England you have politicians, in Scotland you have self-centred thieving lying barstewards, so MB is an easy error to make....:)

Werner Berghofer

08-01-2012, 17:43

Bob,

in Scotland you have self-centred thieving lying barstewards

oh, and I used to believe these creatures only existed in Austria ;-)

Werner.

DSJR

08-01-2012, 22:18

And here's me thinking it was the "b"ankers all along :D

roob

09-01-2012, 15:44

Werner
As requested I have been comparing the digital out and usb out from the Macbook to my dac via its Xmos usb 2 and optical inputs.
I used itunes/Pure Music in Hog Mode/Memory play for each output
Albums played were aiff rips of Solace by Sarah Machlan, Famous Blue Raincoat by Jennifer Warnes and Fortnight in Paris by Patricia Barber.
On all tracks I prefer the sound via async usb which to my ears was more rhythmic/toe tapping, had better texture and definition to bass instruments making it easier to follow what individual players were doing especially bass guitars/double bass with optical these were softer and individual notes were sometimes hard to separate when the going got busy.
I will do the test again through headphones when my Asgard headphone amp arrives which should be tomorrow but for now its async usb for me.

Werner Berghofer

09-01-2012, 16:45

Andrew,

I will do the test again through headphones when my Asgard headphone amp arrives

many thanks for sharing this with me! It’s strange that to my ears Toslink really sounds better, but maybe my iMac’s or the Bifrost DAC’s USB implementation/socket is somehow flawed.

Kind regards,

Werner.

bobbasrah

09-01-2012, 17:18

At what sample level did you carry out the session Andrew?

roob

09-01-2012, 17:22

Werner, I agree that different dacs will have different implementations so it is not exactly a level playing field. The differences I hear are subtle its not a slap you in the face thing.
Until a few weeks ago I was using a early version of a John Kenny modified Hiface USB/Spdif converter which was an excellent sounding bit of kit I would say my new usb interface is its equal. The new owner of the Hiface is over the moon with the sound he is getting with it via his Mac into the digital in on his Opus cdp.
Bob
These were standard redbook rips, my dac is a NOS type.

technobear

09-01-2012, 19:41

And if you’re really curious, connect your DAC via USB to your MacBook, put on a headphone and turn up the amp’s volume to a high level. But don’t play any music, just scroll for example through an open browser window. You shall be amazed (and shocked) how much electronic junk is being transported via USB.

Werner,

We've discussed this before (were you asleep? :D). It is essential in all USB implementations, whether asynchronous or adaptive, to have galvanic isolation between the computer and the DAC.

In an ideal world, all the DAC manufacturers would realise this and would include galvanic isolation in their DACs. Sadly very few do - including Schiit.

What you need is one of these:

http://electronics-shop.dk/galvanically-usb_isolation

This will eradicate completely the noises you mention :)

You will then discover, with these noises removed, that asynchronous USB is far better than optical S/P-DIF :thumbsup:

Werner Berghofer

09-01-2012, 19:53

Chris,

What you need is one of these

thank you for the link, I will purchase one and try it out for myself.

I always thought that the USB socket of the Schiit Bifrost was already isolated :-(

Kind regards,

Werner.

roob

09-01-2012, 21:26

Does the Bifrost usb input take its power from the Mac?
The XMOS interface on my dac has its own high quality 5v supply inside the dac which could go someway to explaining things.
Lots of owners of the new Audiolab Mdac are using that usb isolator with good results as even that product does not provide galvanic isolation.

Werner Berghofer

09-01-2012, 21:52

Andrew,

Does the Bifrost usb input take its power from the Mac?

how could I find this out? The Schiit website (http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-bifrost/) talks a lot about USB –

Well then, how about your USB? Is it fully buzzword compliant? 24/192? Async?

It is absolutely buzzword compliant! Not only is it USB async, but it’s USB 2.0 async that’ll do up to 24 bits/192 kHz sampling rates. Yes. USB 2.0. Not antique 1.1. It works without drivers on Mac and we’ll provide drivers here on the site for Windows 7, Vista, and XP. It’s a good-sounding, reliable, solid implementation of USB. But that’s like saying, “Well, its a very nice meal, given that the chef could only work with McDonald’s hamburgers.”

Wait. Are you saying USB is crap?

We’re saying we put a ton of time into our USB implementation, but, to our ears, USB still doesn’t quite offer the performance of SPDIF. And we can even get into shades of gray on SPDIF too: consider Mike Moffat’s AT&T ST-optical interfaces and Sumo’s Axiom/Theorem transport and D/A, which had a separate low-jitter master clock connection from the transport.

– but I think your question is not answered. I can select the Schiit USB interface in System Preferences → Sound → Output if an USB cable is connected to the DAC, even if the DAC itself is not powered on.

Werner.

roob

09-01-2012, 22:54

You would probably have to open the dac up to confirm that Werner.
Try the usb isolator and let us know if it improves things.

bobbasrah

10-01-2012, 06:33

You will then discover, with these noises removed, that asynchronous USB is far better than optical S/P-DIF :thumbsup:

Seconded in my own case, BUT,,,, Would that there was concensus on this, as the opposite view is also widely held by many manufacturers who have a vested xommercial interest in finding the best solution, including Schiit. :rolleyes:

Werner Berghofer

10-01-2012, 10:07

Bob,

the opposite view is also widely held by many manufacturers who have a vested xommercial interest in finding the best solution, including Schiit.

that’s also my opinion. Schiit offers the USB connectivity as additional option. Personally I think Firewire would be the best method to connect a computer to a DAC, but this is only available in very few and quite expensive high-end DACs like for example the Swiss made Weiss DAC.

Kind regards,

Werner.

bobbasrah

10-01-2012, 11:44

that’s also my opinion. Schiit offers the USB connectivity as additional option. Personally I think Firewire would be the best method to connect a computer to a DAC, but this is only available in very few and quite expensive high-end DACs like for example the Swiss made Weiss DAC.

Fair enough Werner. I don't know enough about the technicalities to make a distinction between USB and Firewire in terms of technical advantages other than transfer rate.

This is where I am stumped.
If the usb connector is being used to generate the SPDIF in the case of the Hiface, then the signal up to that point is fine. So, how it is transmitted and received by the DAC seems to be the problem, and that cannot be the cable or optical line as this is a data stream. My only conclusion so far is that somehow the SPDIF to data conversion is better than the usb version on some DACs.

I will be most interested in how the new Cambridge DAC performs in this regard, and also to read your own conclusions on the Hiface in due course to see how the optical implementation on your MAC compares.

Werner Berghofer

10-01-2012, 13:15

Bob,

I don't know enough about the technicalities to make a distinction between USB and Firewire in terms of technical advantages other than transfer rate.

in a recent → Stereophile story (http://www.stereophile.com/content/weiss-dac202-firewire-da-converter) covering the new Weiss DAC 202 the advantages of Firewire are mentioned:

While so many other consumer DACs now connect with computers via USB, the Weiss DAC202 uses FireWire, which is favored in professional audio circles and fundamentally differs from USB in a number of ways. First, FireWire has greater bandwidth than USB and can therefore transfer more data faster. Second, FireWire is a peer-to-peer protocol, which means that every device on a FireWire network is equally capable of talking to every other device. Third, FireWire is always implemented in hardware, with a special controller chip in each device; the communications load it puts on your computer's CPU is much lighter than USB's.

According to Daniel Weiss, FireWire is more reliable than USB because it offers what he calls "isochronous mode, and it lets a device carve out a certain dedicated amount of bandwidth that other devices can't touch. It gets a certain number of time slices each second as its own. The advantages for audio should be obvious: that stream of data can just keep on flowing, and as long as there isn't more bandwidth demand than the wire can handle (not very likely), nothing will interfere with it. With our products, the FireWire connection works in the so-called isochronous mode, which means that a defined bandwidth is reserved for the link and cannot be taken by another device on the bus. To use USB speak, the transfer is asynchronous; ie, the master clock sits in the D/A converter and the computer is slaved to it."

The price for the Weiss DAC 202 is US$ 7,737 | € 6,056 | £ 5,002. It’s interesting to know that a DAC in this class does not offer USB connectivity.

Kind regards,

Werner.

roob

10-01-2012, 13:21

If your music is stored on an external HD then its best to connect it via Firewire when using a USB dac.

Clive

10-01-2012, 13:27

If your music is stored on an external HD then its best to connect it via Firewire when using a USB dac.
Unless you use a player that loads the files into memory and therefore doesn't access the disk during playback. :)

roob

10-01-2012, 13:30

That is true, but I have noticed my FW drive still whirrs away even when I am in memory play mode in Pure Music so maybe it could introduce noise if it were on the same bus as the dac.

Gromit

10-01-2012, 14:24

Speaking as someone who hardly knows the first things (let alone the 2nd) about digital computer audio, I'm presuming the new DM100 has this async USB input, meaning if I were to go for one it would make my HiFace redundant?

It's just that the USB input on my Caiman, whilst ok, isn't exactly up to the standard of the other inputs and I would prefer to be able to plug the USB from my MacBook straight into a dac.

I always liked the sound from my older DacMagic so am hoping, if the 100 is an improvement on that, it could be a nice move to get one especially if it means I can run without the HiFace.

roob

10-01-2012, 14:29

Werner Berghofer

10-01-2012, 14:33

Andy,

I have noticed my FW drive still whirrs away even when I am in memory play mode

normally a computer’s hard drive is spinning constantly, no matter if it is currently accessed or not. That’s one of the reasons why I doubt the advantages of memory play mode and some other features of so-called “audiophile” playback software. The hard drive only stops rotating if it is put asleep or the computer is turned off.

Werner.

Gromit

10-01-2012, 14:55

Richard.
Although details are a bit sparse at the moment the usb implementation does seem to be async and there appears to be galvanic isolation as per the DM+.
There is a guy on pfm who has the DM+ and he confirms that its usb input is very good indeed and much better than the old DM.
If this is the case the Hiface will not be needed.

Hi Andy - many thanks for info, that is most encouraging. A friend of mine at work recently got hold of a new DM+ and brought it over last weekend, insterting it into my system it did sound very good indeed. A very sweet, quite 'organic' sounding dac which appealed to me very much (this was via the DM+'s USB input).

bobbasrah

10-01-2012, 15:05

Bob,

in a recent → Stereophile story (http://www.stereophile.com/content/weiss-dac202-firewire-da-converter) covering the new Weiss DAC 202 the advantages of Firewire are mentioned:

While so many other consumer DACs now connect with computers via USB, the Weiss DAC202 uses FireWire, which is favored in professional audio circles and fundamentally differs from USB in a number of ways. First, FireWire has greater bandwidth than USB and can therefore transfer more data faster. Second, FireWire is a peer-to-peer protocol, which means that every device on a FireWire network is equally capable of talking to every other device. Third, FireWire is always implemented in hardware, with a special controller chip in each device; the communications load it puts on your computer's CPU is much lighter than USB's.

According to Daniel Weiss, FireWire is more reliable than USB because it offers what he calls "isochronous mode, and it lets a device carve out a certain dedicated amount of bandwidth that other devices can't touch. It gets a certain number of time slices each second as its own. The advantages for audio should be obvious: that stream of data can just keep on flowing, and as long as there isn't more bandwidth demand than the wire can handle (not very likely), nothing will interfere with it. With our products, the FireWire connection works in the so-called isochronous mode, which means that a defined bandwidth is reserved for the link and cannot be taken by another device on the bus. To use USB speak, the transfer is asynchronous; ie, the master clock sits in the D/A converter and the computer is slaved to it."

The price for the Weiss DAC 202 is US$ 7,737 | € 6,056 | £ 5,002. It’s interesting to know that a DAC in this class does not offer USB connectivity.

Kind regards,

Werner.

Thanks, Werner.
I will need to go dig out specifications now to confirm that Firewire is indeed miles away from usb2, which I did not think it was. In any event, aside from the greater headroom, at audio data transfer rates, I would have thought neither is stretched in the slightest.
One thing did catch my eye though and that was the dedicated firewire controller and P2P comments, as it reminds me of what has been often been said about NOT sharing a usb controller with multiple devices and a DAC.

Perhaps my dual usb controller motherboard was indeed a good choice after all.

Anyhow, enough thread crapping, I wonder who will be first up with a review of the new CA DAC..... :eyebrows:

roob

10-01-2012, 15:12

Weiss actually sell a Firewire interface which by all accounts is excellent but it should be at nearly a grand.

Gromit

10-01-2012, 16:09

I wonder who will be first up with a review of the new CA DAC..... :eyebrows:

Well I must admit to being very tempted. :)

bobbasrah

10-01-2012, 16:17

Well I must admit to being very tempted. :)

Ok, so you're closer.....after you... :cool:

DSJR

10-01-2012, 19:00

Reid Malenfant

10-01-2012, 19:09

bobbasrah

11-01-2012, 08:29

Hasn't firewire died a death now??? I understand it is a good interface (pros use it I believe) and perhaps instead of wetting ones-self over a $10,000 DAC, which will almost certainly be a very expensive case with a few tens of dollars bits inside (DAC chipsets currently around $10 or less I believe), maybe there's a cheapish pro option??? :)

Agreed Dave, particularly on 4 and 5 figure DAC's, at which price range it is beyond the reasonable aspiration of other than a very few. The review of the Weiss DAC to which Werner pointed was as mind-blowing on the prices as the conclusions that were drawn. :stalks:
Weiss headlined a firewire solution of their own implementation so is not industry standard even if it does comply, so I suspect it is more about implementation than connection type, bandwidth or the connection specs.:scratch: Digital audio is well within the limits of most interfaces out there, and PSU stability/noise and galvanic/electrical isolation is gaining increasing attention as a major factor.
It was interesting to reflect on John Kenny's journey to his modified Hiface solution, in that what kicked off his "business" was not the DACs as such but his experience with the Musiland 01 and modifications to upgrade the device, as did many others. The interface was not the issue nor the limitations of the DAC, it was the peripheral implementation. That was part reasoning behind the recommendation to me for the 02US, which however cheap, has opened my ears to what digital could do within a reasonable budget.:mental:
It is ironic indeed that as the digital age draws to a close on CDs, that their true capabilities finally are unveiled within reasonable cost.:rolleyes:
Development of the new CA DAC among others appear to have followed in similar vein, more DIY and experiments avound on forums (and the chinese are squeezing the market off of them), so the future looks brighter in that increasingly better and cheaper DACs are becoming available.

So who is gooing to be first to do a bake-off? :cool:

Werner Berghofer

12-01-2012, 14:32

Chris,

What you need is one of these

got mine today. The device is as ugly as the monthly rent, but fortunately it’s plugged in on my iMac’s back, so I don’t see it :-)

First impressions: With this USB isolator music sounds at least as good and clean as via optical Toslink, but I’ll give it a much closer listening later this day.

Many thanks again for the link!

Kind regards,

Werner.

roob

13-01-2012, 15:19

Werner.
How is the usb input testing going?

Werner Berghofer

13-01-2012, 15:45

Andrew,

How is the usb input testing going?

really terrible! I think the USB isolator device is defective. After ten minutes of playback (most of the time after a much shorter time) the music is distorted, hissing and sounds like being processed by an out of tune analogue vocoder/synthesizer used by Kraftwerk in the late 1970s. If the isolater device is removed, everything sounds as it should, so I think it’s not my computer’s or the DAC’s fault. I returned to feeding the DAC via optical Toslink.

Guess the device somehow feels that I don’t like USB ;-). I stand by my view: At least for my ears and with my computers, USB is not really suitable for audio playback.

Werner.

Welder

13-01-2012, 16:17

But USB isn't playing back audio, its just transferring data.

Clive

13-01-2012, 16:19

But USB isn't playing back audio, its just transferring data.
Yeah I get errors all the time over USB! haha (not....)

Werner Berghofer

13-01-2012, 17:08

John,

But USB isn't playing back audio, its just transferring data.

thank you for this clarification. I hereby officially change my opinion about USB as follows:

At least for my ears and with my computers, USB is not really suitable for transferring digital data intended for audio playback.

Werner.

Clive

13-01-2012, 17:11

John,

thank you for this clarification. I hereby officially change my opinion about USB as follows:

At least for my ears and with my computers, USB is not really suitable for transferring digital data intended for audio playback.

Werner.
On no! I just copied 25 classical music wavs between drives over USB. Does this mean they'll be corrupted now? :doh:

Werner Berghofer

13-01-2012, 17:43

Clive

13-01-2012, 18:07

Clive,

I fear I don't like your kind of humour. I said nothing more than that I don't like USB in my audio chains, and I highly would appreciate if you accept this as my very personal opinion.

Werner.
No insult intended - honestly! Just having a bit of fun.

But seriously, what I suspect is that the dacs you've tried with usb do not have good technology or (more likely) the data coming from your usb port is poor quality.

Werner Berghofer

13-01-2012, 18:48

Clive,

(more likely) the data coming from your usb port is poor quality.

this might the case, but I would be surprised if this really was true. Both my desktop computer and my laptop are quite new and well equipped work horses.

I really don’t like USB, not only when used as connection to a DAC. A medical book I produced at the end of 2010 had a corrupted picture in the final PDF, which was caused by copying the PDF to an USB stick. A new copy, this time to an optical disk, did not have this problem. And both copies were made with my former desktop computer, so I think this is not related to the new iMac I now use for my work.

I found out that accessing USB harddisks causes more overhead and generally slows down all other processes which are currently active. When accessing firewire harddisks (which I certainly prefer) I never noticed similar behaviour. But it is well-known general knowledge that Apple’s USB implementation leaves much to be desired. So I’ll stick to optical Toslink, which works without any problems, obviously causes no processor or bus overhead and sounds quite good – at least to my ears – even when listening very critically with high-end headphones.

Werner.

Clive

13-01-2012, 18:56

A medical book I produced at the end of 2010 had a corrupted picture in the final PDF, which was caused by copying the PDF to an USB stick. A new copy, this time to an optical disk, did not have this problem. And both copies were made with my former desktop computer, so I think this is not related to the new iMac I now use for my work.
Werner, the most likely cause of the corruption is bad memory in the USB stick, IME.

bobbasrah

14-01-2012, 09:15

Werner, with so many variables on the hardware, file system and OS side, and differing DAC implementations, there is no "universal" answer. You have found the best solution for your setup, the usb adaptor has been trialled and found wanting, and your reasoning and conclusion is based on what you have observed and noted on your setup.

My win7 system experiences none of the problems that seem to be bandied about elsewhere, without any of the issues that you have observed on your own setup, and despite some opinions that it should not, runs faultlessly via usb without interference or intrusion, operating as a normal desktop without sacrifice to a dedicated audio system.
My old XP system could not do that, and suffered usb interference. Perhaps when it is rebuilt, it will be a compromise by comparison, but not such a compromise as my laptop or the netbook would be.
Synergy is a wonderful term freely used here for things we cannot explain in electrical terms in the analogue environment, so wonder what the computer equivalent would be? Voodoo is already a trademark....

Werner Berghofer

28-01-2012, 16:20

Bob,

You have found the best solution for your setup, the usb adaptor has been trialled and found wanting, and your reasoning and conclusion is based on what you have observed and noted on your setup.

I’m not the only one with really bad experiences when transferring digital audio data from a Mac to a DAC via USB: it played fine for a few tracks until playback became a static screech (http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-the-information-and-anticipation-thread/2130#post_8096092) (a recent thread on Head-Fi.org).

Werner.

bobbasrah

28-01-2012, 18:32

Bob,

I’m not the only one with really bad experiences when transferring digital audio data from a Mac to a DAC via USB: it played fine for a few tracks until playback became a static screech (http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-the-information-and-anticipation-thread/2130#post_8096092) (a recent thread on Head-Fi.org).

Werner.

I have noticed reports of that on various sites Werner, but there are also a number of people who have problems on usb who are NOT using a Mac, so it is seems to not be brand specific. :scratch:
Others appear to have issues with optical implementation, so the only conclusion I can draw is that it is how it is incorporated by the motherboard manufacturer. :doh: Nothing else makes a lot of sense.:rolleyes:
I certainly have no complaints for the board I have :D, but whether that is indeed down to the two separate usb controllers as originally thought, I frankly do not know.:mental:

DSJR

28-01-2012, 20:50

Alex's laptop into via USB into a Rega DAC (galvanically isolated but that's it), was fine with no sonic or dropout issues at all that we could hear...

roob

28-01-2012, 21:42

Never had any playback problems via usb with my Macbook or PC laptop. My dacs usb input is powered by its own power supply so maybe its a power supply issue with dacs that are powered from the computer usb bus.

Werner Berghofer

28-01-2012, 22:18

Andrew,

Never had any playback problems via usb with my Macbook or PC laptop.

are you using Mac OS X 10.7 aka “Lion” on the MacBook? It seems as if this problem is existing only in Mac OS X 10.7. Currently this issue is also being discussed (http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-the-information-and-anticipation-thread/2145#post_8098270) on Head-Fi.org.

Werner.

roob

29-01-2012, 00:54

Werner.
I was using Lion until a week ago but due to a hard drive failure I re-installed Snow Leopard on my new drive so I could take advantage of PM's integer mode.
Never had any problems with Lion, but SL +integer mode is a big step up in sound quality for me.

Werner Berghofer

29-01-2012, 09:32

Andrew,

due to a hard drive failure I re-installed Snow Leopard on my new drive

unfortunately Snow Leopard isn’t an option for me anymore. My iMac requires at least Mac OS X 10.7, and to keep things in synch I decided to install Lion also on my MacBook Pro. iCloud (the working and realiable version of MobileMe) is not available in Snow Leopard.

Werner.

roob

29-01-2012, 09:49

Werner.
Have you tried using different usb ports on your Mac to see if it cures your problem.
Apparently they are not all equal when it comes to delivering a full 5v of power.

Werner Berghofer

29-01-2012, 12:25

Andrew,

Have you tried using different usb ports on your Mac to see if it cures your problem.

of course. All of the four USB ports on the back of my iMac have the same problem, as well as the USB ports on my MacBook Pro.

Werner.

dave2010

12-02-2012, 12:34

Andy,

normally a computer’s hard drive is spinning constantly, no matter if it is currently accessed or not. That’s one of the reasons why I doubt the advantages of memory play mode and some other features of so-called “audiophile” playback software. The hard drive only stops rotating if it is put asleep or the computer is turned off.

Werner.Don't you set the preferences to spin the disc down after a few minutes? Under Energy Saver.

Clive

12-02-2012, 21:49

With Jplay you can run with the computer iin hibernate - QED.

bobbasrah

13-02-2012, 06:51

With Jplay you can run with the computer iin hibernate - QED.

I really should get round to trying these different programs to get a grip on what difference there really is.

For my own part, there have been zero problems, which I firmly believe is down to the deliberate choice after trawling the net for clues, of a motherboard with dual usb controllers. I am convinced that the quality of implementation at motherboard level is crucial, as none are built with DACs such as we are using in mind. This has given rise to claims over flaws in usb, sync/async/etc, vswr effects, and even generation of digital artifacts.

No matter how many usb ports you have (generally up to 4) there is a single controller acting as gatekeeper and a single OS. Depending on how well this controller is incorporated and behaves in terms of isolation from the rest of the system, and how well the controller is habdled by the OS, it will be a problem or not, all the rest being workarounds to the principal problem.
I do not think there is in my own case any advantage to having used the usb3 controller, that is simply the one to which the DAC was attached.

Just my 2c....