View Full Version : Windows to Linux beginer tips.
As file based audio gains popularity there is an increasing interest from audiophiles in OS systems that concentrate more on sound quality than visual quality and convenience.
The two main operating systems Windows and Apple are getting increasingly complex and hardware intensive and I can’t see either bringing out a stripped down operating system specifically for audio replay in the foreseeable future; this leaves Linux.:eyebrows:
There are Linux distributions (different types of operating system) that concentrate on audio replay under development, but this is part of the problem; they are under development (not necessarily working for a wide enough range of system architecture (Motherboards, Processors)) and they don’t necessarily cater for the particular method of transferring audio files to your computer you prefer (storage attached directly to your computer rather than a network streaming arrangement for example) or provide a GUI (General User Interface (think something you can look at on a screen and click on to do stuff)).
In theory at least, all Linux distributions can made to give a GUI and recognize your music storage system but so far I haven’t come across one that you can point and click at that covers enough option to be user friendly to a Windows or Apple user.:(
This guy is getting close.:youtheman::youtheman:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70052
If you like your file based audio go over and give the guy some encouragement.:)
We’ve had this working out of the box so to speak but it’s got some limitations, for example, if you want to use a directly wired USB external hard drive and collect your music files from, or have a media player you can actually point and click at on a screen you have to make system changes.
There are others that can be “adapted” such as
http://linux.voyage.hk/voyage-mpd
but, you cant chuck this on any old system architecture and get it to run.:(
My point here is, so far I haven’t found a Linux distribution that the average Windows user can point and click at and get an audio file from a drive to a Dac without having to use the CLI (Command Line Editor), think DOS prompt, for those who are old enough to remember.:wheniwasaboy:
TIPS
1) You need to view getting to know Linux as a long term project. It just ain’t going to happen overnight. There is no project “point and click”; there is however every chance of project “crash and burn”. :eek::lol:
View it as a new hobby instead of watching that shite on the TV.
2) Don’t use Wubi to install Linux.
I tried doing this a couple of times and it all went horribly Pete Tong. Apparently this is quite common.
3) Download an ISO image of the distribution you are interested in and burn it to a RW CD.
While the idea of running an operating system from a USB drive sounds great lots of older BIOS setups don’t allow for USB booting and if you’re the average Windows user even sorting out upgrading BIOS can be enough to put you off the whole idea.
Virtually every computer will boot from a CD.
4) Don’t install Linux and another operating system on the same drive as another operating system.:no:
4a) If possible use another computer.
This way there is no chance of accidentally deleting your everyday working computer stuff.
4b) Back up anything you can’t afford to lose be it on the same drive or not…..seriously.
Yes, you can partition your drive. Yes you can use a Virtual machine. Unless you are very confident with using a partition manager from a live disc it’s going to end in tears.:trust:
The main problem is Linux uses a different boot manager to Windows (Grub and MBR respectively)
Once Linux is installed everything (including Windows) boots from Grub (Linux takes over the boot process basically) this is fine while you are using Linux, but if you want to get rid of a Linux distribution and return to Windows only you’ll have to remove Grub and reinstall MBR and this can be a major headache for a beginner.
Considering Linux distributions are free its well worth buying a small hard drive just for Linux. You’ll then be able to swap crash and burn to your hearts content and when you want to actually do something with a computer you can just change drives. Don’t say you weren’t warned. You will crash Linux if you’re learning.:D
5) Make sure you have a bootable copy of your Windows distribution (XP, Vista, Win7) that works.
I’ve been burned a couple of times with this; once with an XP installation where three quarters of the way through a new install Windows couldn’t find some vital files on it’s own disc and once again with a Win7 install due to a dirty disc.
5a) Make sure you have a partition manager that will run “live” from a CD ready. This is free and basic and will get you out of trouble.
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm
instructions.
(When downloaded run the exe in there. You can then make a bootable floppy or cd your choice. This puts the program on you choice of media so you’re ready to go. (the cd option makes a cd .iso so you will need a program to burn it.) Both the floppy and cd contain the same program. Next you will restart your computer with the cd or floppy in the drive. Once you boot into the program do not install it to your hard drive. Just click cancel to just run it off the cd or floppy. Then go to partition work. Click the circle for your primary drive on the left side of the window. Select and delete every partition except for your standard windows partition. Now you should have a format less partition that says free space after it. Then select your windows partition and click resize. It will run an error check which may take a while depending on your partition size. Once that finishes type in the largest size in the prompt unless you have other plans for some of that space. Once you do that it will allocate all that space back to your primary partition. Next, if you installed grub the bootloader you will need to reset you mbr or else you can't boot up because grub will crash. To do this select you windows partition go to view mbr on the left. When in there select your windows partition and click std mbr. This will take grub off and set your mbr back to the way it was before. Click apply and the changes will be made.
Or this one.
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-bare-metal.htm
So, you should start out with bootable copy of Windows on a CD, a copy of a partition manager you can run live from a CD burnt on CD and a copy of the ISO burnt to CD for the particular Linux distribution you want to play with.:thumbsup:
Linux tends not to do stuff quickly. Just because it isn’t showing an egg timer or clock spinning doesn’t necessarily mean it ain’t thinking (a bit like some Hi Fi forum contributors ;)) so have patience and only hit the power off switch when you’re sure its terminally crashed.
6) Something that confused the crap out of me when I first started using the Terminal/CLI (DOS style window needed to get Linux to do stuff) is it wanted a password for everything. What nobody tells you, is when you type your password in it doesn’t show on the CLI screen although it’s been accepted. Take note! Just go on to the next command.
7) Another thing nobody tells you is Linux has different levels of administrator rights.:doh:
You can get halfway through something and the CLI pops up a notice that you don’t have permission to do this; extremely frustrating!
Basically you need to have “root” permission for your system. It’s a bit like user accounts in Windows. You need to find out how to be a “root” administrator for your particular Linux distribution if you’re going to make major system changes.
8) For some commands/scripts you need to know the name of your particular distribution (Ubuntu 10.04 for example isn’t enough. You need to know if its called Hardy Heron, or whatever.
9) The easiest way to try commands and scripts out is often to copy them from source and paste them into the CLI, deleting out the commentary where necessary.
Working out what symbols are supposed to be entered and what are in fact commentary quotes for example can be interesting to say the least.:eyebrows:
10) There is loads of stuff on the various Linux forums regarding the different distributions and how to get stuff working. You just have to try things out and hope they will work on your setup.
The main hinderances to learning and Linux in general imo are:
Out of Date.
Even the “official” forums for certain distributions suffer from this.
The Linux geek.
Plenty of these around. Unfortunately while many seem to know their stuff they seem totally incapable of understanding that reams of command lines just doesn’t mean shit to the average Linux wannabe and when they find they can’t talk geekish they piss off back to their caves.
Every now and then you find someone who is capable of expressing themselves in English and conveying the necessary information in an intelligent and understandable manner.:donk:
11) It’s worth setting up an Internet Relay Chat client (irc) and joining a channel that concentrates on Linux.
I’ve had some very good “walkthroughs” help for a couple of problems on irc
A couple of threads worth reading
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/New-Linux-OS-aimed-computer-audiophiles-Voyage-MPD
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Linux-101
To get started I’m going to recommend any Ubuntu distribution from 10.04.
I’ve just upgraded from Ubuntu 10.04 to 11.10 (what pratt said the advantage of Linux is you don’t get endless patches like Microsoft :rfl:)
I like it so much I’m tending to use it more for the everyday stuff than Windows XP and for me that is saying something. :D
Ubuntu isn’t ideal for audio as far as I can see but it is excellent for learning a bit about what Linux can do. Ubuntu 10.04 onwards does a lot of regular stuff out of the box (most of the time) and looks pretty decent. It’s a bit slow and doesn’t like multi taking much so not for the frantic mouse clicker. However, alongside a Windows user friendly GUI it has the dreaded Terminal/CLI and is reasonably crash proof.
This seems to me so far the easiest distribution for the Windows user to learn how to use the CLI and experiment with getting the various Linux audio drivers to work while still having a useable system, albeit possibly with out audio at times ;)
I just want to add finally add here I have not successfully installed, got up and running and managed to retrieve an audio file from an external hard drive and send it to either of my Dacs at the file bit rate and frequency without help from anyone else yet and I’ve been messing about with various Linux distributions for a few months on and off now. :sofa:
If I can cope with it I’m going to try to write up a complete run through of an audio priority Linux installation once my mate gets back to hold my hand.
What I would like to do here is a “how to/tips” thread for Linux based audio; really seriously not interested in “Do you think such and such sounds better than such and such, or, can you describe the subtle nuances found between A and B?” Ffs, GTFO and go listen for yourself. Lets see how it goes.:brickwall:
John - on behalf of AoS and personally - a big thanks for taking the time to put this together. I think I will dig up an old laptop and have a play... keep thinking about it, so as good a time as any now SCD and X-Factor have finished... :eyebrows:
Thanks again. :)
A good overview this, but there are a lot of assumptions here on Linux that is not necessarily correct or are outdated. If you try Linux Mint or Open Suse these will be just as easy or easier to use than Windows and they will beat it to the punch regarding performance. All computer applications and operative systems has a learning curve, but in the most recent versions of Mint and Suse these are very easy to install, have ease of use and they have very active forums and mailing lists readily available. A lot of applications are also available for free on the net like Audacious for music editing.
http://linuxmint.com/
http://www.opensuse.org/en/
You don't need to use CLI for much in these distros, but the command line is very effective to use when you learn more about it. These distros have excellent hardware recognition and drivers included.
If you have old hardware with an old monitor and such, you might need a smaller Linux distro which has more limited features. The advantage with Linux is that you can always find a distro that fits even the oldest and slowest stuff. If you install a big distro on a very old box it will of course be a bit slow, but it will be much faster than Windows 7 anyway.
If you plan to only use your Linux box for audio there are also some specialized audio distros:
http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic/7778/distros-and-resources-for-linux-audiomultimedia/
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Top-10-Linux-Distributions-for-Audio-Production-64552.shtml
http://linux-sound.org/distro.html
I have used OpenSuse and Slackware for many years myself both privately and at work and it works great for all uses and much less expensive than Windows and Apple.
Fantastic John, I do like Linux as I have to use it at work on occasion and should in all honestly use it a lot more, but we are so busy I don't get the chance. But as ever, very helpful and informative information delivered in your unique inimitable style.
Hat's off to you fella and I'm so glad you returned to AoS after your short hiatus last year - we are the better for it.
:cool:
Cheers Alex and Tim :)
Give Ubuntu a go. Even if you cant get rid of the Pulse audio interface or get ALSA or an alternative working its quite a nice looking OS and does stuff out of the box such as nvidia driver support and flash and it even recognised my hard drive and Dac without problems.
Clementine is nice looking player which will reputedly support a large Flac library.
I haven’t managed to get it playing nice yet but I’m working on it.
http://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/
@Jobstein.
Hmm, I hear this a lot from Linux enthusiasts.
I’ve tried Linux Mint Debian and it broke…..a lot, trying to coax audio data transfer over USB at native file bit depth and frequency rate using NFTS external hard drive directly connected to my AMD based PC.
I’ve tried Ubuntu Studio and yes it does lots, but it doesn’t do what I want it to very easily.
I don’t think I’ve written anything unfair or outdated in the above.
Bear in mind I write from the perspective a reasonably competent computer hardware builder who has a pretty good idea of what he does and doesn’t want from an OS that will just be used for audio.
Also bear in mind I’m reasonably computer literate, I can even write the odd script and get my XP Windows machine to play lovely audio up to the supported bit depths over USB and SPDIF.
Linux! Well, maybe in a few more months.
Reading various posts here for example some contributors who are fairly Windows able have problems with getting bit perfect audio out of a OS they are quite comfortable with.
You can’t seriously tell me that they will find doing the same with a Linux based computer any easier.
Linux, well its great fun but Pulse and ALSA aren’t the easiest to work with in my experience.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking Linux, far from it in fact. I’m trying to encourage audiophiles to get used to it because the future of computer audio lies with Linux.
Anyway, please feel free to write up how you have your file based audio system set up.
If we can get a bit of a “likely suspects library” going with people who has actually built a system, or even installed a Linux OS suitable for file based audio it would be worth more than pages and pages of I think this sounds better than that.
Welder: If you can describe more in detail how your system with files is set up, it will be easier to provide a solution. I see that you use a mpd server. Would one of these graphical mpd clients work for you?
http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Clients
For file managing and access to different drives with audio, Dolphin is what I use:
http://linuxappfinder.com/package/dolphin
Amarok is a great browser and all around music player for your audio files on your drives, internet, CD's and other:
http://amarok.kde.org/
These apps works best in KDE desktop which you get preinstalled with Suse.
The real experts on a DAC setup with a music server is over at the Discless Circle:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=133.0
F.ex. this thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=102060.0
I'm very happy with Ubuntu and XBMC as my audio streamer. It's not the leanest solution by any means - I run it on an old PC (AMD athlon 64 single-core processor (3700+ - I think) and 2GB RAM. Total install is around 5GB. When streaming FLAC files from my server via a SAMBA share, the processor is never running at more than 10% with memory around the 10 - 15% utilised mark.
I have removed PulseAudio and have disabled some non-essential services, but other than that it's a stock Ubuntu 10.04LTS install. My NVIDIA card (and Samsung TV) and Caiman DAC were detected out-of-the-box.
XBMC is versatile - it's a full-blown media centre, although I only use it as an audio streamer, that copes with just about all audio and video formats and has a very usable "10 foot" user interface - I use a cheap (£7 delivered off eBay) IR remote control. I use the 'AON Nox' skin which is very slick. The latest beta version ('Eden') of XBMC is very quick with my library of 35,000+ tracks.
There is an 'XBMC Live' version which can run off a CD-ROM or USB-stick boot that includes a stripped-down Ubuntu Live distro and is ideal to try without having to install anything to your hard drive.
XBMC looks very interesting, thanks for that link.
Hi again Jostein.
First my apologies, I spelt your name wrong in my preceding post….
What I’m trying to do here is gather information about Linux audio matters.
I don’t really have a problem as such. Thanks for the offer of assistance anyway. No doubt I shall call on it at a later time.
One can’t help noticing here on AoS there are a few people who are interested in file based audio but who aren’t particularly comfortable with working with computers.
What I’m aiming for is a full walkthrough of installing at least one and preferably a few lightweight Linux distributions suitable for low powered aging laptops. Of course, there should be nothing to prevent such a configuration working on a powerful desktop either.
Hopefully, if we can get at least one step by step audio orientated Linux installation that actually works laid out here people will give it a try on an unused laptop or spare drive.
While it’s probably true that there are such guides elsewhere on the net, in my experience a high proportion of them are either unintelligible to a Linux beginner or don’t work in practice.
My particular preference is for directly attached external drives with the client and server all on one machine and a GUI player that can be viewed from say three or four meters away that has some form of remote control; something similar to Keith’s (above) set up in fact.
This is what I think will be most useful to the “average” audiophile interested in venturing into file based audio.
I suppose a second objective is to get audiophiles to move from the often costly commercial OS that aren’t particularly suitable for file based audio out of the box to a free and more adaptable Linux option.
Hi Keiths
I don’t suppose I could persuade you to type up how you removed Pulse audio from Ubuntu 10.04 and configured ALSA (?) for bit perfect playback?
I used this
http://www.jeffsplace.net/node/12
and did get it working eventually but I didn’t keep a record of any issues at the time.
Why remove Pulse audio from Linux?
Pulse audio could be described as the Linux version of Windows K Mixer; the audio management layer that Windows based audiophiles try to bypass with asio or kernal Streaming in Win XP or Hog Mode in Win7.
What Pulse audio can do if not properly set up is resample 44.1 bit depth audio to 48.
As I understand it both Kmixer and Pulse were introduced to allow better integration with some web based media and DVD replay.
Apart from the possibility of having files resampled it also introduces a degree of latency into the audio playback.
Fortunately not all Linux distributions come with Pulse audio; some have ALSA which is the audio layer that sits under Pulse, a bit like WMD under say Realtek drivers in Windows.
Lubuntu and Xubuntu and Voyager (Linux operating systems) for example don’t come with Pulse.
Hi Keiths
I don’t suppose I could persuade you to type up how you removed Pulse audio from Ubuntu 10.04 and configured ALSA (?) for bit perfect playback?
I used this
http://www.jeffsplace.net/node/12
and did get it working eventually but I didn’t keep a record of any issues at the time.
Hi John,
I just removed PulseAudio completely:
sudo apt-get autoremove pulseaudio
As I'm using XBMC, I didn't bother modifying the GStreamer configuration as XBMC uses it's own audio engine and I don't have use Banshee or any of the other players that use the GStreamer backend installed.
In XBMC I have the audio output set to "Custom hw:1,0" to bypass alsamixer.
Edited to add: Hey, 1 kilopost :) How did that happen!
Cheers Keith. :)
I think I’ll give XMBC a try with Lubuntu. I didn’t realize XMBC wasn’t GStreamer dependant.
Hi
I am far from a computer geek and, aside from a brief flirtation with ubuntu, I have no experience with linux. Some years ago, when searching for a hassle-free, always-on solution for my Squeezebox setup I came across vortexbox, a dedicated fedora distro, and have been happy ever since.
It is an easy install, comes with the latest sb server software, scans, autorips to FLAC, mirrors in mp3, sees and can be seen on my network, has some sort of backup thing (i've not used it), and has a software player so you can use it without a Touch/classic straight into a usb dac. Recent iterations include a dvd ripper and sonos support (though I've not tried/needed these).
Finally, unlike any windows box I've owned, it doesn't throw a wobbly every five minutes.
How does that sound?
Cheers Keith. :)
I think I’ll give XMBC a try with Lubuntu. I didn’t realize XMBC wasn’t GStreamer dependant.
To try it, just use the 'XBMC Live' CD.
Part1:
As a committed Linux user I welcome any advocacy, and applaud John's efforts. If I can contribute anything I know about this topic, I'd be happy to do so. And I'll make every effort not to lapse into “geek speak”. Although, as an aside, I would say that half the battle of getting to grips with any new area of knowledge is to understand the jargon used. In some cases, it just cannot be avoided.
Don't necessarily expect Linux users to agree on all things. Despite Ubuntu's popularity, I'm not sure it would be my choice for a new Linux user who is specifically interested in audio matters. It's simply because “Pulse Audio” gets in the way and is not always easy to completely remove. Perhaps, this has changed in the latest 11.10 Ubuntu release.
Each to his own, of course, and there is a cornucopia of Linux LiveCDs you could try. My own rec is for PclinuxOS. It's not as bleeding edge as some Linux versions, bit it has a large software repository , a wide user base, and an active and friendly forum. It does lack a decent WIKI, but issues a monthly magazine which can be read on-line.
Rather than download and burn one, or more Linux LiveCDs iso, you could get to grips with VirtualBox. It is easy to install on Windows and it will let you run Linux inside Windows, eihter as a LivCD or installed on a virtual drive. This way you can try as many different Linux versions as you like without burning a single iso and learn how to install Linux on a (virtual) hard drive. You can also learn/try the techniques of sub dividing your hard drive for Linux use and dual booting a PC that has both Linux and Windows installed on it, all this before doing it for real. Apart from VirtualBox, which is free software, all you need is spare hard disk capacity (say around 10Gb) and the downloads of Linux LiveCds in iso format.
What running Linux in VirtualBox cannot tell you is how Linux will actually run on your hardware. You will only know if your hardware is 100% Linux compatible if you burn and run a LivcCD directly. One area which can be troublesome is wireless networking, but it is often just a case of finding the right drivers. It's easier to work with a machine, at least in the first instance, that has wired network connection.
John was mentioned the need to create/mange hard drive partitions. If you intend to follow his advice and install Linux on its own, then it is a none issue. All modern Linux versions will partition the drive as part of the installation process, just as Windows would. In addition a bootloader will be installed during the install process (typically GRUB or GRUB2). You will be given the option to accept a default partition scheme, or do it manually, and select where the bootloader is installed.
(This website has excellent tutorials on GRUB:
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/grub.html
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/grub-2.html
but you don't need to consider this unless you are into dual/multibooting)
If you want Linux to coexist with Windows there are well documented ways to do this. I have found it best to use Windows tools to manage Windows partitions for things like resizing, moving and cloning. One totally free product which I have used with success is EaseUS® Partition Master 9.1 Home Edition
http://www.partition-tool.com/personal.htm
Together with
http://www.todo-backup.com/products/home/free-backup-software.htm
for Windows back up. It really works as advertised.
I use gparted for managing Linux partitions and some actions on Windows partitions. It is part of some Linux version, but also part of a Linux LiveCD called http://partedmagic.com/doku.php. This also has some other very handy Linux tools. So I have tended to prepare my hard drives in advance of any Linux installations, and then pick the custom partition option during installation.
For the new linux user I think there are these basic questions:
Which Linux to choose and where do I get it?
How do I install it so I don't destroy Windows?
Once installed what can I do with it?
If audio is your target, as opposed to general purpose use, the answer may vary. It's quite possible to get excellent audio results from many mainstream varieties of Linux with little or no more effort. than you would make in Windows. Life is a made easier if “pulse audio” is not installed. Use LiveCDs directly, or in Virtualbox until you find the version you want and are ready to install it on your hard drive. These refs will give you and idea of the scope of Linux software:
http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-pclinuxos-2010-kde
http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-linux-mint-12-lisa
PART 2:
A few tips for new Linux Users.
Whether using on-board sound like Intel's HDA, or a PCI/PCIE sound card, or an external DAC follow the same basic guidelines as per Windows. For quality playback, avoid software volume control, sound mixing, and re-sampling. In Windows this means using something like foobar with ASIO or kernel streaming and checking you are playing your audio files in their native format where possible.
In Linux you are most likely to be using the ALSA sound system, either via point and click software like Amarok, VLC media player, SMplayer or one of many others, or their command line counterparts. The basic check to make is to be sure your sound device can operate at the native bit depth ( e.g. 16bits or 24bit) and frequency (e.g. 44.1Khz,or 48HKz or 96KhZ etc.) of your audio files whether they are FLAC, WAV, ape, or OGG etc.
You don't want to use any mixer (ALSA's mixer is dmix, which becomes kmix in KDE). Incidently. alsamixer is something different, and not the same thing as ALSA's mixer. Alsa works with both “plughw” and “hw” sound devices. Sound playback via software that uses the device as type “plughw” may, but not necessarily, be doing both format (as in bit depth) and sample rate conversion. The latter is not wanted, but bit padding, say from 24bit to 32bit as demanded by some s/cards, is not detrimental to SQ. If the sound device can be used a type “hw” no format or sample rate conversion will take place.
So how do you know what your sound device is capable of? You need some test files of various bit/freq combos and a few ALSA commands. These examples are taken from my PC and should illustrate the point. My output is either digital from the on/board HDA chip to toslink DAC input , or USB to USB DAC input. You'll have to use the command line for this. Look for your “terminal “ application if using a GUI desktop. This can be done as a normal user, root access is not rquired.
Check if your sound hardware is recognised by ALSA using "aplay -l" (that's lower case L)
aplay -l
**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: SB [HDA ATI SB], device 0: ALC892 Analog [ALC892 Analog]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: SB [HDA ATI SB], device 1: ALC892 Digital [ALC892 Digital]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: NVidia [HDA NVidia], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: NVidia [HDA NVidia], device 7: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: NVidia [HDA NVidia], device 8: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: NVidia [HDA NVidia], device 9: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 2: CODEC [USB Audio CODEC], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
In my case, I have on/board HDA audio, audio built into the HDMI of the Nvidia graphics card, and an external USB DAC.
Play test wav files using aplay. First for USB audio output. In ALSA speak, this is device 2,0 (or in some software 2.0)
The USB DAC can only be used a “hw” type device when the audio file format matches its capabilities. Say 16bit/44.1Khz or 16bit/48KHz.
TEST 1: USB DAC 16bit/44.1KHz WAV file – device type “hw”
aplay -v -D hw:2,0 test.wav
Playing WAVE 'test.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 44100 Hz, Stereo
Hardware PCM card 2 'USB Audio CODEC' device 0 subdevice 0
Its setup is:
stream : PLAYBACK
access : RW_INTERLEAVED
format : S16_LE
subformat : STD
channels : 2
rate : 44100
exact rate : 44100 (44100/1)
msbits : 16
buffer_size : 22050
period_size : 5513
period_time : 125011
tstamp_mode : NONE
period_step : 1
avail_min : 5513
period_event : 0
start_threshold : 22050
stop_threshold : 22050
silence_threshold: 0
silence_size : 0
boundary : 6206523236469964800
appl_ptr : 0
hw_ptr : 0
Now if I try to playback as a type “hw” device 24/96 it fails:
TEST 2: USB DAC 24bit/96KHz WAV file – device type “hw”
aplay -v -D hw:2,0 2L38_01_96kHz.wav
Playing WAVE '2L38_01_96kHz.wav' : Signed 24 bit Little Endian in 3bytes, Rate 96000 Hz, Stereo
aplay: set_params:1065: Sample format non available
Available formats:
- S8
- U8
- S16_LE
I can playback 24bit/96Khz audio on the USB DAC but only by using it as a “plughw” type device.
TEST 3: USB DAC 24bit/96KHz WAV file – device type “plughw”
aplay -v -D plughw:2,0 2L38_01_96kHz.wav
Playing WAVE '2L38_01_96kHz.wav' : Signed 24 bit Little Endian in 3bytes, Rate 96000 Hz, Stereo
Plug PCM: Rate conversion PCM (48000, sformat=S16_LE)
Converter: linear-interpolation
Protocol version: 10002
Its setup is:
stream : PLAYBACK
access : RW_INTERLEAVED
format : S24_3LE
subformat : STD
channels : 2
rate : 96000
exact rate : 96000 (96000/1)
msbits : 24
buffer_size : 48000
period_size : 12000
period_time : 125000
tstamp_mode : NONE
period_step : 1
avail_min : 12000
period_event : 0
start_threshold : 48000
stop_threshold : 48000
silence_threshold: 0
silence_size : 0
boundary : 6755399441055744000
Slave: Hardware PCM card 2 'USB Audio CODEC' device 0 subdevice 0
Its setup is:
stream : PLAYBACK
access : MMAP_INTERLEAVED
format : S16_LE
subformat : STD
channels : 2
rate : 48000
exact rate : 48000 (48000/1)
msbits : 16
buffer_size : 24001
period_size : 6000
period_time : 125000
tstamp_mode : NONE
period_step : 1
avail_min : 6000
period_event : 0
start_threshold : 24000
stop_threshold : 24001
silence_threshold: 0
silence_size : 0
boundary : 6755680916032454656
appl_ptr : 0
hw_ptr : 0
So you can boast to Stan his USB DAC can play 24bit/96Khz. But it sounds, well not quite right, because both format and samplerate conversion are taking place
If I repeat the test using the HDA digital out I must use device 0,1
TEST 4: HDA digital 16bit/44.1KHz WAV file – device type “hw”
aplay -v -D hw:0,1 test.wav
Playing WAVE 'test.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 44100 Hz, Stereo
Hardware PCM card 0 'HDA ATI SB' device 1 subdevice 0
Its setup is:
stream : PLAYBACK
access : RW_INTERLEAVED
format : S16_LE
subformat : STD
channels : 2
rate : 44100
exact rate : 44100 (44100/1)
msbits : 16
buffer_size : 22016
period_size : 5504
period_time : 124807
tstamp_mode : NONE
period_step : 1
avail_min : 5504
period_event : 0
start_threshold : 22016
stop_threshold : 22016
silence_threshold: 0
silence_size : 0
boundary : 6196953087261802496
appl_ptr : 0
hw_ptr : 0
TEST 5: HDA digital 24bit/96KHz WAV file – device type “hw”
aplay -v -D hw:0,1 2L38_01_96kHz.wav
Playing WAVE '2L38_01_96kHz.wav' : Signed 24 bit Little Endian in 3bytes, Rate 96000 Hz, Stereo
aplay: set_params:1065: Sample format non available
Available formats:
- S16_LE
- S32_LE
TEST 6: HDA digital 24bit/96KHz WAV file – device type “plughw”
aplay -v -D plughw:0,1 2L38_01_96kHz.wav
Playing WAVE '2L38_01_96kHz.wav' : Signed 24 bit Little Endian in 3bytes, Rate 96000 Hz, Stereo
Plug PCM: Linear conversion PCM (S32_LE)
Its setup is:
stream : PLAYBACK
access : RW_INTERLEAVED
format : S24_3LE
subformat : STD
channels : 2
rate : 96000
exact rate : 96000 (96000/1)
msbits : 24
buffer_size : 48000
period_size : 12000
period_time : 125000
tstamp_mode : NONE
period_step : 1
avail_min : 12000
period_event : 0
start_threshold : 48000
stop_threshold : 48000
silence_threshold: 0
silence_size : 0
boundary : 6755399441055744000
Slave: Hardware PCM card 0 'HDA ATI SB' device 1 subdevice 0
Its setup is:
stream : PLAYBACK
access : MMAP_INTERLEAVED
format : S32_LE
subformat : STD
channels : 2
rate : 96000
exact rate : 96000 (96000/1)
msbits : 32
buffer_size : 48000
period_size : 12000
period_time : 125000
tstamp_mode : NONE
period_step : 1
avail_min : 12000
period_event : 0
start_threshold : 48000
stop_threshold : 48000
silence_threshold: 0
silence_size : 0
boundary : 6755399441055744000
appl_ptr : 0
hw_ptr : 0
Test 5 fails, because the HDA chip can't handle 24bit format, only 16 or 32bits. Hence the need for bit padding which is provided for by using it as “plughw” type device.
The same type of test can be done for FLAC files using mplayer at the command line, e.g.:
mplayer -ao alsa:device=plughw=0,1 2L38_01_96kHz.wav
Failed to read /etc/mplayer/mplayer.conf.local: No such file or directory
Warning unknown option include at line 171
MPlayer SVN-r34442 (C) 2000-2010 MPlayer Team
Can't open joystick device /dev/input/js0: No such file or directory
Can't init input joystick
mplayer: could not connect to socket
mplayer: No such file or directory
Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.
Playing 2L38_01_96kHz.wav.
Audio only file format detected.
Load subtitles in ./
================================================== ========================
Opening audio decoder: [pcm] Uncompressed PCM audio decoder
AUDIO: 96000 Hz, 2 ch, s24le, 4608.0 kbit/100.00% (ratio: 576000->576000)
Selected audio codec: [pcm] afm: pcm (Uncompressed PCM)
================================================== ========================
AO: [alsa] 96000Hz 2ch s24le (3 bytes per sample)
Video: no video
===== PAUSE =====
A: 21.2 (21.1) of 554.0 (09:14.0) 0.2%
MPlayer interrupted by signal 2 in module: pause
Exiting... (Quit)
So to use the USB DAC in Linux I need to make sure any playback software is pointing to device hw:2,0 ( or hw=2.0). If I want to use the on/board HDA digital out, the playback software should point to device plughw:0,1 ( or plughw=0.1). I check no sample rate or harrnful bit depth changes are taking place and I check if mixing of sounds if off as is software volume control. I control my volume directly on my USB DAC.
A ton of stiff about XBMC at:
http://xbmc.org/download/
http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Developing_XBMC_for_Linux
I should give this a whirl myself.
While I partially agree with Chris (Krisbee) I really do think running virtual drives, partition management and running stuff from live CD’s isn’t the way forward for the Linux and computer novice.
This sort of stuff is great for people who are very comfortable with computers but for the point and click Windows user………I think it will end in tears personally; there is way to much scope for a serious disaster.
Once (assuming some interest exists) a person has actually done the simplest possible Linux installation and got it to work, then they may start looking into acquiring more knowledge and considering working on an audio only installation that imo performs far better than a Windows installation, no matter what pre configured application one bolts on to it.
All the geeky stuff can come later.
Most will manage an ISO image burnt on to a RW CD and have the benefit of seeing how a OS performs without slowness problems due to USB bandwidth for example when running a “live” distribution.
Also, they’ll have that particular distribution on a more stable medium.
It’s easy to forget that AoS has contributors who are interested in file based audio who have problems embedding a link or setting up a music player, expecting them to dive into partition management and virtual drives is a bit much and isn’t imo likely to woo them over to computers of file based audio. The probability is they’ll go back to those funny black shiny discs and scrape a needle along them for future audio if file based audio crashes their computers or gives them major brain ache.
Thanks for the stuff above Chris. Looks useful. Mid Lubuntu atm but I hope to try out XMBC later. :)
Hi again Jostein.
First my apologies, I spelt your name wrong in my preceding post….
What I’m trying to do here is gather information about Linux audio matters.
I don’t really have a problem as such. Thanks for the offer of assistance anyway. No doubt I shall call on it at a later time.
One can’t help noticing here on AoS there are a few people who are interested in file based audio but who aren’t particularly comfortable with working with computers.
What I’m aiming for is a full walkthrough of installing at least one and preferably a few lightweight Linux distributions suitable for low powered aging laptops. Of course, there should be nothing to prevent such a configuration working on a powerful desktop either.
Hopefully, if we can get at least one step by step audio orientated Linux installation that actually works laid out here people will give it a try on an unused laptop or spare drive.
While it’s probably true that there are such guides elsewhere on the net, in my experience a high proportion of them are either unintelligible to a Linux beginner or don’t work in practice.
My particular preference is for directly attached external drives with the client and server all on one machine and a GUI player that can be viewed from say three or four meters away that has some form of remote control; something similar to Keith’s (above) set up in fact.
This is what I think will be most useful to the “average” audiophile interested in venturing into file based audio.
I suppose a second objective is to get audiophiles to move from the often costly commercial OS that aren’t particularly suitable for file based audio out of the box to a free and more adaptable Linux option.
Hi Keiths
I don’t suppose I could persuade you to type up how you removed Pulse audio from Ubuntu 10.04 and configured ALSA (?) for bit perfect playback?
I used this
http://www.jeffsplace.net/node/12
and did get it working eventually but I didn’t keep a record of any issues at the time.
I be more than willing to give this ago but it sounds like a real head f--k and my computers skills are pretty average
So if I start to see yes this is easy to install withour hassles I am more than willing to take the plunge so I hope you suceed
It’s easy to forget that AoS has contributors who are interested in file based audio who have problems embedding a link or setting up a music player, expecting them to dive into partition management and virtual drives is a bit much and isn’t imo likely to woo them over to computers of file based audio. The probability is they’ll go back to those funny black shiny discs and scrape a needle along them for future audio if file based audio crashes their computers or gives them major brain ache.
I couldn't agree more John, you either have to be comfortable with computers already, or have a lot of time and patience to spend learning something that is very different to what you are used to and has John has commented, scares the average home computer user.
However, having said that the info here is great Chris so thanks for that and I will have a peruse when I can - lots of good information there. :)
I be more than willing to give this ago but it sounds like a real head f--k and my computers skills are pretty average
So if I start to see yes this is easy to install withour hassles I am more than willing to take the plunge so I hope you suceed
That John is just one of the reasons I strongly suggest you play with Linux on a separate hard drive to your normal Operating System.
A separate laptop would do fine as well.
Fitting a second hard drive to a PC tower isn’t difficult and even fitting using one for a laptop that you swap in and out isn’t difficult.
Given you get the Operating systems for nothing (Bear in mind Win7 or JPlay or even just JRiver cost around the price of a hard drive it doesn’t seem unreasonable)
At a push you can even install Linux operating systems on external hard drives and run them from there. However, external hard drives connected over USB are likely to run slower with computers using USB. SATA
external hard drives may perform better for this application.
In fact, you can pick up a second hand laptop for the price of new Windows operating system or some "audiophile" interconnects.
It’s fun John…honestly, if you don’t have to worry about stuffing the computer you use on a daily basis. ;)
That John is just one of the reasons I strongly suggest you play with Linux on a separate hard drive to your normal Operating System.
Or use a Virtual Machine maybe? VMPlayer is not too tricky to set up with Ubuntu and it's free, I have one here and fire it up sometimes.
http://www.vmware.com/products/player/
OK, using VirtualBox to learm something about Linux may not suit the type of "point and click" Window user you have in mind. But I would argue that anyone with a degree of competence in Windows could install and use VirtualBox. There are a good many tutorials on the web at places like the "How-to Geek" and on youtube. You can downlaod a good guide from here:
http://www.makeuseof.com/pages/how-to-use-virtualbox
After all, if I was to produce some kind of guide to installing Linux and its use, I would seriously think about using VirtualBox as the means to generate the screencaps or vids of the various install steps, and when it's at work. You can mess around in VBox and cause no harm.
So I would suggest a free software solution to help the user move from Windows to Linux, while you would advise adding extra hardware. In which case a degree of hardware competence is required.
This seems a bit like swings and aroundabouts, but it's good to have choices. Either way the prospective Linux user will have to learn to install and configure thier system.
PS My preference is for VirtualBox over VMWare's player as VMplayer is not included in any mainstream Linux distro and must be downloaded and installed as 3rd party software and has a habit of breaking with each new iteration of the Linux Kernel and requires patching as described on the Arch Linux WIKI:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/VMware#VMware_patches
PS My preference is for VirtualBox over VMWare's player as VMplayer is not included in any mainstream Linux distro and must be downloaded and installed as 3rd party software and has a habit of breaking with each new iteration of the Linux Kernel
Have you found this yourself Chris?
The only reason I ask is that I have run the last 3 versions of Ubuntu in VMPlayer without a single issue :scratch: It's simplicity itself to install. I don't use it often, just to tinker with every now and then and to keep abreast of what each version brings, but for me it's been trouble free.
I don't mean what runs inside VMplayer, but the VMpalyer software itself. I was talking about installing VMplayer in Linux, and now I realise you were talking about installing VMplayer on Windows, which is indeed straightforward. My misunderstanding.
The trouble here is I can’t really argue with you Chris.
In fact, I’ve got Virtual Box running here as I type, mainly because I’ve got Ubuntu 11 on my second hard drive and wanted another look at Lubuntu 10.10 while I play with Ubuntu……..ahem. :mental:
Yep, it’s probably true, you’ll have to learn to use a virtual machine, or get good with partitions at some point. Virtual machines are safer I must agree.
Short description on installing XBMC on a Slackware box:
http://osarena.net/logismiko/applications/xbmc-media-center-in-slackware.html
A Day With Linux (Ubuntu 10.04 and Deadbeef)
I decided to try out three Linux OS with a view to a simple Linux install capable of bit perfect audio that could replace WinXP as my day to day computing OS.
I have tried to provide a step by step guide that assumes minimal knowledge and will at the end leave you with a usable all round lightweight operating system that is capable of audio reproduction at your native file bit rate up to whatever your hardware supports.
I tried 3 Linux Operating Systems.
Lubuntu 11.10
I wanted to give this a try mainly because it doesn't come with Pulse audio installed and its supposed to be fast and lightweight.
Unfortunately when it came to partitioning the drive prior to installation the installer crashed.
In with the partition manager. :steam:
Second attempt; crashed in configuration..........F**k it! I'll have another go another day.:steam::steam:
Ubuntu 11.10
Latest flagship release. Was looking good until the installer told me the computer was going to fast for it and declined to carry out any more operations until I had taken the computer outside for a smacking and told it to slow down. Ffs!:wanker::whistle::facepull:
Back in with the partition manager.:steam::steam::steam:
Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
Still supported and possibly the most bug free. Yeah, this one worked.:yay:
Despite my earlier warnings I did exactly what I advise everyone else to avoid and went for a dual boot set-up on a hard drive already containing WinXP. :doh:
Christmas has taken its toll on the finances and despite having two desk top computers and one and a bit laptops and a dedicated music server, I'm clean out of empty hard drives.:(
BEFORE you start, make sure you have anything you cant afford to lose backed up, preferably on an external drive.
BEFORE you start either write down the login details for your most frequently visited sites or make a file with Notepad in Windows with these details in and put the file in your documents or on to a flash drive.
BEFORE you start make sure you have a partition manage program the is capable of re-installing Windows MBR (link to a simple one in original post)
BEFORE you start disconnect and external hard drives. Live installers have a nasty habit of assuming some external drives are where you want Linux installed.
BEFORE you start, make sure you have a notepad and something to write with close by.
BEFORE you start make sure you're connected to the internet.
I'm not sure how Ubuntu copes with SPDIF Dacs but now would be a good time to connect it up. I left my USB Dac connected throughout the installation and it was recognised automatically, one of the reasons 10.04 is a Windows user friendly OS.
Each operating system was download as an ISO image from the distribution supporting Linux sites.
Ubuntu, both versions
http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download
Pretty straightforward here. Pick your version and click to download.
Lubuntu
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/11.10/release/
You need to take a bit of care in picking the right distribution for your hardware. For most older computers it will be,
PC (Intel x86) desktop CD
Each Linux version was checked with an md5 sum checker. This is worth doing considering the time you'll spend sorting out the mess if there is a download error.
Md5 Sum checker.
http://download.cnet.com/MD5-Checker/3000-2092_4-10410639.html
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM
Each operating system ISO file was burnt to individual TDK CD-RW using
http://cdburnerxp.se/en/home
which I've used for a while now and copes with ISO images quite well.
Run your CD burner application, pick Burn ISO image and in the option choose Verify image.
It takes a while. Remove CD once burnt.
To use the ISO image installer you need to set your computer to boot from the CD drive rather than the normal hard drive. To do this you need to access a program called BIOS; all computers have one somewhere.
For most computers you can access BIOS during the boot up process just after the last screen shows on the monitor before the operating system starts up. If you haven't accessed BIOS before a brief search on the internet will tell you which key to press for your particular computer model.
You will need to shut down the computer and re-start and enter BIOS.
When in BIOS you navigate the BIOS menu by pressing arrow keys.
Go to BOOT and move cursor to primary boot drive and press enter.
By using the arrow keys you can then pick the CD drive as the first Boot device.
Save and Exit the BIOS menu.
Your computer will probably automatically re-boot. As soon as the computer sends power to the CD tray, open it and put the CD with the ISO image you've burnt in the tray and close it.
The Ubuntu 10.04 installer is pretty good for Linux. Most of it is self explanatory.
You should now boot into the Linux installer. You may have a blank screen for a bit while Linux thinks but be patient.
You'll be asked if you want to install Linux or run it as a live from the CD. Choose Install.
Then you'll be asked how you want to install it. Because I'm going for dual boot I picked install alongside Windows.
If you're installing to an empty drive pick the appropriate installation mode.
After you've sorted out what language you speak and time zones you'll be asked to partition the drive and a slider you can click on with your mouse and drag around is presented to you.
If you drag the slider about like a dog on a lead it gets all confuzzeled and pisses off back to Linux so be gentle and know how much room you want to give Linux on your hard drive if installing for dual boot.
10 Gigabytes is a reasonable starting point.
You can change the partition size later from within Ubuntu.
The installer gives you the opportunity to take certain files from your Windows installation if required. It hasn't worked properly on three installations so far. The only thing it managed to transfer was my desktop background.
At the point where the installer asks if you want to Update during the installation, decline.
Where you are asked to give a user name and password etc. write all the details down on that pad.
Hopefully the installer will get on with the job from there on in.:eyebrows:
Once the installation is successfully complete it will open the CD tray and tell you to remove the CD and press Enter.
Do not be alarmed at all that type that spreads across your screen even if it says lotsa ERROR! Close your eyes and pretend you didn't see it. :D
Your computer should now reboot and instead of Windows lighting up you room with happy messages and coloured flags you should get a box with some text giving you the option to start Linux, then a three drive entries showing lines showing a recovery drive for Ubuntu, two swap partitions and maybe unallocated space and right at the bottom, the option to start up Windows.
I know you're dying to see Ubuntu at this point, but pick Windows. I write this for a couple of reasons; firstly you'll be able to check that Windows boots okay, secondly Windows is now going to start throwing all its dollies out of the pram and is going to want to prod and poke Linux a bit to see if its dangerous.:rolleyes:
Stroke Windows a bit and let it go through the two reboots needed to clam it down.
First Windows will run a disc check and reboot.
Then it will start as normal and then decide it needs to prod the Linux installation some more and ask for yet another reboot.
Sorted, great, now shut the fucker down, :eek:ahem I mean shut down the computer and then restart and make sure you go back into BIOS as the computer starts up.:doh:
Go back to the boot section and return the primary drive to first boot position, basically undo what you did before and exit saving changes.
The computer will re-boot and this time you can pick Ubuntu at the top of the list, just press Enter.
Interestingly, if you've gone out to get some more valium at this point the computer will boot Ubuntu by default......not so daft after all.
Log in......................your password is on that notepad ;)
Linux Ubuntu 10.04!:yay:
URL=http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=2ai6pp5t1w2c1vb]http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/e31265f933f4153655070d4bdae9b5000dba72cbbc90a07e27 2ff08a787f4d9a4g.jpg[/URL]
Wait! Don't rush around clicking stuff just yet.:donk:
The Taskbar should have Update Manager showing, install the updates.
If the Update Manager doesn't show then go to System>Administration>Update Manager and click on Install Updates.
If any files don't update properly, make a note of which file/s they were and close Update Manager when its finished. Update Manager will probably want to reboot here. Don't shut down yet.
There may be at the top right hand side of the bar at the top of the screen an icon near date and time telling you there is a driver for your Graphics Card available. Download it. Once installed it will control the fan on the GFX card and you wont go deaf. Don't shut down yet.
Next, plug in the external drive with all your music and all that stuff you backed up on it.
Whatdoyamean Windows has got it another partition on the computer! Ffs, don't you take any of the advice given on this site?
(this is sortable but not atm)
This distribution of Ubuntu will auto mount your external hard drive and you should see an icon for it on the desktop.
Note: In Ubuntu 10.04 some stuff wants double clicking while other stuff doesn't.
Next, go to System>Preferences>Screen saver and disable screen saver for the time being. If you don't do this it has a horrible habit of blanking the screen out while your thinking about what to click next.
In that window there is also an option to change Power Management. Click on that and alter the display settings to always on. (you can change all this later)
Now shut down the computer and let the updates etc install fully.
Re-start into Ubuntu......it's on the pad ;)
You'll need Flash Player plug-in at least and doing this stuff now is a good way of getting a bit of a tour of Ubuntu and learning what can do what.
Applications>Ubuntu Software Centre>Sound & Video.
You might want to get Adblock for Firefox given you'll probably be looking stuff up; its under the
>Internet icon.
Next, Applications>Accessories>Terminal.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8c5602d8a0f254983c9be526404545ef6f8b68ae86fd1df13d 8630b873924de84g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=ak578v5narvsb6q)
You need to type these commands into the terminal. The easiest way is to copy and paste them in one at a time. The terminal commands should be in showing in green here on AoS to differentiate them here from the rest of the stuff.
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:alexey-smirnov/deadbeef
You need to press Enter on your keyboard after each command.
The terminal will ask for your password.
Carefully type your password but take note; IT DOESN'T SHOW IN THE TERMINAL so don't panic. Just type it and press Enter on your keyboard.
sudo apt-get update
Press Enter
sudo apt-get install deadbeef
Press Enter
Finally the Terminal will ask for a Y to complete. Just type Y and close terminal by clicking on the X in the top left corner when its finished installing.
Next go to System>Preferences>Sound and click on Sound.
Make sure Output Sound is un-muted.
Then choose No Sounds in Sound Theme.
Next click on the Hardware tab.
Your Dac should show in this menu.
(I have tried this with an USB connected HRT Music Streamer, and a Wavelength Proton and both were detected)
The options here in the sound configuration menu will depend on your sound card/Dac and the type of sound drivers you have installed.
Basically you want all digital to soundcard/Dac.
Click on the Digital Stereo Duplex (IEC958) image.
Then make sure that the Settings below also give Digital Stereo Duplex (IEC958)
You can ignore the Input tab until you want to record.
On the Output section, pick your Dac/Soundcard by clicking in the adjacent circle.
Make sure in each section that the sound is un-muted.
Close Sound.
Now go to Applications>Sound & Video and click on DeaDBeef.
In the Menu bar click on Edit>Preferences.
The first tab is Sound. Make sure this is set to ALSA Output Plugin.
Underneath that is Output Device. Set this to your Dac/Soundcard IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output
In the next tab Playback, make sure Playback Gain is disabled.
Next go to the Plugins tab and click on the ALSA Output Plugin and tick the box that says Release Device When Stopped. This allows you to use gstreamer for internet audio playback.
You can play about with the GUI and stuff later.:pat:
Leave DeaDBeef open but use your mouse to drag it by the edges (just like Windows) so that the external drive that is displayed on the desktop is visible and all the tabs on DeaDBeef are also still visible.
Something like this.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/5708d5eb3231831ada5b067720f119e15a801d499719797cef 7dc5a6a086a3544g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=4zd9eu9dh6hhhaq)
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/c6439c24c7600dbceb0fbd494f312b401288308374dc8d4b99 c60402c0572ec64g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=6t3yc2e5s6j7fj9)
It can get a bit messy from here :eyebrows:but this is pretty clever and you'll get the chance to see how much of a bollocks you made of your stored media on the external drive.:eek:
My music is stored on my external drive in a folder structure; one folder per album containing cue sheets, album art, and rip logs.
Unfortunately DeaDBeef doesn't support this arrangement yet.:(
In the Edit tab on DeaDBeef player is a Sort By option; these are the available alternatives of how your music files can be arranged. Dont bother with the Custom srting option at the moment. If you get it wrong DeaDBeef crashes.
Now click on your external drive icon on the desktop. In the menu bar at the top is yet another icon showing your external drive; in this case Elements adjacent to Places. Click and hold on this icon and drag it to the empty default playlist area. DeaDBeef will now load all your files into the play-list,
neat eh ;)
Right, you need to be careful here. I've stuffed this up to crash point a couple of times so I'll write about what works without hassle.:whistle:
URL=http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=vr16qz1n1z2r3g6]http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/5708d5eb3231831ada5b067720f119e15a801d499719797cef 7dc5a6a086a3544g.jpg[/URL]
Right click in DeaDBeef on the menu bar with Play-list, Artist, Duration etc and select New Column.
A pop up window appears.
In the Title type Album Art
In the Type box choose Album Art
Choose which side you want.
Close.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/14de00de361a9becd54a6494ba50795da42a35770f85c0ec24 c90783b332ee924g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=dq740w8ad97tobc)
(hmm, must remember to use the screenshot timer :scratch :scratch:
Now if you right click on the Album Art column header you've just made there are alternative arrangements; I don't think you'll like what happens :eek:
If you stuff it all up, just right click the column header again and delete the entire column and start again.
Alternatively, you can do something like this, where I've left Elements open and used the mouse to drag the sections into shape so that there is an orderly folder structure showing and the default play-list in DeaDBeef is left empty.
You can then drag the folder you want to listen to into the DeaDBeef playlist area and the album art will still show.
If you want track properties, click on a track.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/e1c2758315d7830c1b8e455502cf4d18d7227e8d2bf53bb375 81a6f727476e514g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=56wdpbm17q72y3e)
Finally you wont be needing Rhythmbox player so now is a good time to see the third and possibly most useful feature of Ubuntu until you get confident with the Terminal.
Go to Preferences>System and click on Synaptic Package Manager (SPM).
Like Windows, deleting stuff by clicking or Add and Remove programs often leaves bits of data in the registry.
Notice that SPM allows for complete removal.
Type Rhythbox into the search facility scroll until it show up and mark it for complete removal.
SPM will show you all the dependant files that will be removed with it; a useful
feature.
Click Apply in the main menu.
Okay, you're good to go.:thumbsup:
What you should have is a relatively lightweight operating system that will still let you play stuff from the internet which is gstreamer dependant and give you native file bit depth and frequency at 16/44.1.
For further explanation of how ALSA handles audio have a read of Chris's (Krisbee) post above.:read:
You can play some music now while you wade through my general comments.
When one considers how long it takes to install a Windows operating system, update, look for various drivers, find and install a music player, get it to avoid the kmixer, this is a piece of cake in comparison :)
Looking at the pics, it's interesting to see just how much ISN'T running by default.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/e31265f933f4153655070d4bdae9b5000dba72cbbc90a07e27 2ff08a787f4d9a4g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=2ai6pp5t1w2c1vb)
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/0c5dd11fc0f942d4db5a7b9a3b248f77c5c687a50046ff2375 c40020cc557b8e4g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=d3koa2wif2z5dfi)
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/e86c506cfe4ffbf60dd46c25c4441449c49f779eb57dfa8c44 2390e2b1f90f914g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=m1ewbw6lalssdyf)
This version of Ubuntu loads as quickly as Windows and shuts down in a fraction of the time.
I have crashed Ububtu 10.04 a few times now but its due more to me not knowing what I'm doing than system instability.
DeaDbeef is in my opinion an excellent player. I haven't found anything it wont play and I cant say that even for foobar. Exactly what DeaDbeef is outputting when it plays higher resolution files I can't say atm, but it plays them.
Okay, Ububntu (generic) isn't as slick as Windows but it has enormous potential for a laptop or main PC media player which you don't need to spend a £100 on and a great many hours of stress just to get it to stop doing stuff.
I think the sound quality is excellent.
I'm going to start hacking it about so it's staying as my main OS and Windows will hopefully slowly fade away.
I hope if you've followed this guide its proved useful......
…......wee bags of diamonds gratefully received here at AoS :lol:
Nice write-up John :clap:
Nice write-up John :clap:
+1
That's a Herculian effort, I'm not sure I would have the patience for it.
Just as aside, as you had looked at Lubuntu, I wonder if you had considered, or knew about, Linux Mint 11 LXDE.
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1802
The crux would be how well it deals with installing on a system alongside Windows.
spendorman
08-01-2012, 13:58
+1
That's a Herculian effort, I'm not sure I would have the patience for it.
Just as aside, as you had looked at Lubuntu, I wonder if you had considered, or knew about, Linux Mint 11 LXDE.
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1802
The crux would be how well it deals with installing on a system alongside Windows.
Never had a problem installing Mint (9, 10 or 11) alongside Windows, done quite a few too.
Thanks for the link Chris.
I did get a bit carries away with my day out with Ubuntu and DeaDBeef but I thought it was time we had some serious “how too” here in the digital section.
I'm about to give Aqualung a whirl, possibly with Jack and then OSS 4 to see if it's any better than ALSA.
Not sure what hardware I've got to support OSS yet.
Have you tried any of the above?
(still using Ubuntu 10.04 as everyday OS ;) )
OpenSuse is also very fast and easy install, and have a very good partition manager. Actually much easier to install than Windows which always occupies the MBR as it was the only OS in the world.
OpenSuse can also be updated to new versions very quickly.
wee tee cee
08-01-2012, 17:39
John,
I must thank you for taking the time and going to all the effort you have in trying to explain this to computer daftees such as myself.
I run a cheapo dell lap top...installed i tunes and burnt all my cds lossless. No album art etc just music.
It sounds very good....
There must be a market for guys like yourself to do all the software shenanigans on a basic lap top and punt it to guys like myself that just want to burn they're cds onto a lap top and have top notch play back without any computer hassle.
I hate the things...they bring me out in a cold sweat when something goes wrong.
Sell me something that I just stick a cd into, burn it onto a hard drive and that outputs great audio via usb.
A hi-fi laptop for about £500. Now there's a thought. Computer Idiots like me would be delighted.
Once again thanks for going to all that effort...tony.
Linux Ubuntu 10.04 and DeaDBeef.
I have managed to get decent sound from this combination but it's not what I would call stable.
The problem seems to be with Pulse Audio, which as I understand it, is the audio management layer rather than an audio driver as such.
Under System>Preferences>Sound>Hardware, there are two options showing, Internal analogue input output audio, and another, my Dac. Underneath these two Icons is a box named PROFILE.
It is possible by clicking on the icon representing the analogue on board sound option to turn it off.
Then click on the icon representing the digital output (Your Dac) and then going to the PROFILE option underneath to set this to digital output.
The problem is, it doesn't keep the settings; not at shut-down, not after using another player and not after streaming from the internet and having set DeaDBeef to use digital when you select it under Applications>Sound & Video it goes to load, doesn't see a digital out option for it and crashes.
I you go back into Preferences>Sound>Hardware and reset everything DeaDBeef will work again.
While you can get rid of pulse other stuff stops working even with if the gstreamer packages are kept in place from what I've experienced so far.
Ubuntu forums and Blogs have a few recent entries saying Pulse is now sorted but I'm not convinced. Really it needs to be gone if you want to experiment with a range of possibly bit perfect players and do other stuff involving audio as well imo.
Annoyingly, DeaDBeef sounds pretty good when the settings are correct. Exactly what bit depth and frequency it outputs for various inputs I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at and until my mate gets back I have no way of measuring.
Thanks for the link Chris.
I did get a bit carries away with my day out with Ubuntu and DeaDBeef but I thought it was time we had some serious “how too” here in the digital section.
I'm about to give Aqualung a whirl, possibly with Jack and then OSS 4 to see if it's any better than ALSA.
Not sure what hardware I've got to support OSS yet.
Have you tried any of the above?
(still using Ubuntu 10.04 as everyday OS ;) )
John,
Yes I have deadbeef on my system, along with other players. I created a separate 32bit aptosid install a while ago to experiment with OSS4.
I removed all traces of ALSA and did a dpkg-reconfigure linux-sound-base to select OSS as the sound system before attempting to install any OSS4 packages.
The pre-built binary packages needed a bit of tweaking to install on my debian based systems. They worked OK on my eny24HT s/card but not my USB DAC connection.
So I removed those and followed this guide to build the OSS4 drivers from source.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound
Start about half way done where it says Building from Source, and use the "mercurial" method.
Once built I found both my digital out ( now onboard HDA ) and USB audio out worked. Digital out worked best. Use the command osstest to show which sound devices are detected and work. You may also have to create a link from the oss4 device name to the standard linux sound device /dev/dsp e.g:
su
ln -sf -sf /dev/oss/oss_sbxfi0/pcm0 /dev/dsp
There's more info about OSS4 here:
http://www.opensound.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
I'm not certain, but perhaps OSS4 playback has the edge on ALSA. It's certainly as good.
John,
Have you seen the instructions of how to remove pulse audio from 10.4? You're better off without it.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio#PulseAudio_Removal
And others refs to pick your way through:
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/howto-install-oss4-in-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-for-better-sound-quality.html
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Open_Sound_System
Cheers Chris. I'll work my way through the links.
I'm not much good at this stuff yet so everything takes ages and I stuff up a lot from missing silly bits of information and alarmingly often downright stupidity. :doh:
I've got a couple of Ubuntu 10.04 installations going atm; its easier to just transfer to another mid changes if i crash one and cant see an easy recovery :D
I keep finding stuff that works in one distribution issue but not in another; very frustrating given i don't know enough to work out what got changed issue to issue that's relevant to the problem.
I'm not going to struggle with Ubuntu for long given it isn't ideal for audio out of the box.
Don't know if this was posted here before, but LinuxMCE might also be an option. Built on Kubuntu:
http://linuxmce.com/
http://linuxmce.com/index.php/gallery/screenshots
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/User_Manual
If you like Fedora(RedHat), Planet CCRMA is a ready-to-go audio installation:
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/
Ubuntu 10.04 and DeadBeef Update.
I managed to pick up a couple of second hand hard drives (£5 each :D). So I partitioned one up so I could try out some more Linux distributions and decided to have another go at getting Ubuntu 10.04 and DeadBeef playing nicely together.
As I mentioned above, the problem I had was DeadBeef crashed after playing any audio content from the internet when asked to revert to playing file based audio at native bit depth.
I tried something different this time and after trying all the possible audio sources I could think of it still hasn't crashed. In fact, it sounds rather good for a general OS running on a PC :)
Just to make absolutely clear, by default, both Windows (all) and Ubuntu (other Linux operating systems output re-sampled 16/48. Voyage and MPD for example, can output bit perfect audio but they aren't suitable for day to day computing.)
Your music player may say 24/96 for example but most music players read the source file, not the computers output.
For audiophiles the problem is to get the operating system and music player to output the same bit depth and frequency as the file source without re-sampling.
The installation procedure is identical to above until you get to Updating. So this is the first change.
Don't run the Update Manager.
The second change was I used System>Administration>Synaptic Package Manager (SMP) to completely remove RhythmBox from the system.
Type Rhythmbox into the quick search facility at the top of (SMP). In the pop up window there is an option to completely remove Rhthmbox, choose that, then choose Apply, wait for SMP to complete the operation and then close SPM.
Next install DeadBeef through the Terminal as above.
Now connect your external drive.
Start DeadBeef and drag your music files to the default playlist as above.
Settings
In System>Preferences>Sound my settings are:
Output Volume,
Unmuted, set at 100%
Sound Theme, No Sounds
Hardware
Internal Audio, Off, disabled in Profiles
Dac IEC958 set for digital IEC 958 in Profile
Input
This should be greyed out now.
Output
In my setup there is just my Dac (Digital Output IEC 958) showing; everything else has been disabled by your earlier choices.
Click on the circle next to it.
Close
My DeadBeef settings are;
Sound>ALSA Output Plugin and Output device is set to my Dac IEC 958.
Plugins>ALSA Output Plugin, Use ALSA re-sampling unchecked>Release Device While Stopped, checked.
The only other tab that could effect sound is the DSP tab and I left this unchanged.
I don't know exactly what changes in this post have stopped DeaDBeef from crashing. I suspect it has something to do with one of the updates but I haven't been able to find out which update is responsible for the crashes given my suspicion is correct.
Do not attempt to remove Pulse.
DeaDBeef can and will it seems, in this configuration work around Pulse and ALSA re-sampling.
I still haven't had the chance to measure what bit depth and frequency this configuration outputs for 16/44.1, 24/96 but my ears tell me I am at least getting 16/44.1 for my redbook files.
(Whatdoyamean any audiophile should be easily be able to differentiate by ear 16/44.1 from re-ssampled 16/48......yeah right ;) )
I've tried 5 methods found on the Internet to safely remove Pulse and everyone has resulted in either disastrous crashes or the inability to use internet audio media.
@ Chris.
The link for removing Pulse from the official Ubuntu page removes Pulse okay but what they don't mention is that you cant use internet media afterwards, even with their patch suggestions.
A more informative and more understandable partial explanation of what is and isn't going on regarding audio in Ubuntu can be found here.
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Configuring_Digital_Sound
I thought this made interesting reading for the Windows user trying out Ubuntu.
http://theindexer.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/to-do-list-after-installing-ubuntu-10-04-aka-lucid-lynx/
I reluctantly ran the Update Manager and apart from the first reboot where DeaDBeef refused to load :doh:
(Go to System>Preferences>Sound and reset Hardware by clicking on your Dac icon and making sure its set to digital output in Profiles and then to the Output tab and make sure your Dac is set as the Output device)
so far I've had no further issues. :D
I think I'm going to persevere with Linux as my everyday computing operating system.
DeaDBeef despite its limited support for PLS files (Music streaming from the internet) is to my ears a very decent sounding music player.
(Strangely, Movie Player will accept PLS and I listen to Radio Paradise for example through this.
The 192 ogg offering from RP sounds very good through Movie Player.)
DeaDBeef doesn't have the versatility of foobar but then again you don't have to prise asio into the chain to get native file bit depth to your Dac. Given all the problems people have had doing this I think this is a major plus point.
Unfortunately it seems development for DeaDBeef has stopped for the present and there is no guarantee as with many Linux applications, that development will resume.
Overall I prefer the sound of DeaDBeef and Ubuntu to Windows XP, foobar and asio4all.
The combination doesn't sound as good as my server running Voyage and MPD but given I'm using the DeaDBeef combination on a general purpose computer its hardly a fair comparison.
I've got Lubuntu and MPD running on another partition so this will be my next setup.
John if you do come down can you bring your computer so we can compare and contrast digital set ups.
If I come, I'll bring a few; server, laptop and PC :D
Cool be great to compare and contrast different methods
DeaDBeef despite its limited support for PLS files (Music streaming from the internet) is to my ears a very decent sounding music player.
Not sure if you found PLS for internet works or not. Which version of deadbeeef are you using? The latest seems to be 0.5.1, files can be found at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/deadbeef/files/
but I would think Ubunutu has the latest pre-packaged.
I can stream http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls OK.
Unfortunately it seems development for DeaDBeef has stopped for the present and there is no guarantee as with many Linux applications, that development will resume.
Too true. MPD + sonata, or wiht ncmpcpp remains my choice.
I've got Lubuntu and MPD running on another partition so this will be my next setup.
I never got round to building an ALIX + Voyage MPD or ATOM based dedicated audio server, both for lack of cash and absolute need. So a comparision between your server and daily machine both running MPD is going to be interesting.
Cheers Chris.
I'm running 0.5.1.
m3u files seem to be the problem.
I'm getting a bit concerned now because having been up until stupid o'clock last night comparing WinXP>foobar2000>asio4all and Ubuntu 10.04>DeaDBeef while I attempted to write up Lubuntu>mpd>mpc>real time kernel I'm convinced I can hear a difference. :eek:
Almost forgot; this is worth reading if you're curious as to how Linux audio architecture is set up.
http://tuxradar.com/content/how-it-works-linux-audio-explained
Well, I'm currently typing this using a Live DVD version of Mint 12 - so far so good, but yet to try to do anything audio related... Going to try a few more versions before going for a full install. :)
Good for you Alex :)
Don't spose there is any chance of giving my re-write destructions for DeaDBeef and Ubuntu 10.04 a bit of room on your hard drive as a test once I've finished it....:eyebrows:
spendorman
14-01-2012, 18:31
Well, I'm currently typing this using a Live DVD version of Mint 12 - so far so good, but yet to try to do anything audio related... Going to try a few more versions before going for a full install. :)
The version of Mint I liked least was 12. Prefer 9, and 10, seemed easier to use for a Windows user.
Good for you Alex :)
Don't spose there is any chance of giving my re-write destructions for DeaDBeef and Ubuntu 10.04 a bit of room on your hard drive as a test once I've finished it....:eyebrows:
No problemo mon amis!:)
Great info in this thread.
I'm using Ubuntu 10.10 on an Acer laptop. Music files stored on a USB hard drive in FLAC uncompressed format and played back through a Zodiac Antelope USB DAC. I've tweaked Ubuntu by using the real time kernel when playing back music.
I use Quadlibet, Clementine or deadbeef for playback software. All are capable of being set up to bypass Pulse Audio and go bit perfect via ALSA to my DAC.
Some random thoughts after reading through the thread:
USB thumb drives are great for testing out Linux distros. You can download your choice of a distro's live CD image, and the use Unetbootin to unpack it to your thumb drive. Assuming that your computer allows you to boot from a USB drive, you can run Linux off the thumb drive much faster than off a CD ROM.
if your Linux playback software can bypass Pulse Audio, you cab go to the start up programs menu in Ubuntu and set Pulse Audio so it doesn't start when you boot Linux. Why run something you don't use?
The sound quality that Linux is capable of is really first rate. While I'm no expert and had to bone up a bit on how to set up Linux correctly, it is ultimately no more difficult than Win 7 or Win XP to set up for playback.
Enjoy the music!
Hi Mike.
A couple of points.
At AoS the boss likes new members to do a bit of an introduction in the Welcome section before you start posting. ;)
Once you've got that sorted; which real time kernel did you get working in Ubuntu 10.04?
(Yes please, Mike.)
Well, if you haven't heard from me much at the weekend then blame (congratulate) John (Welder) as I have now immersed myself in the shady world of Linux Distros...
I've primarily tried live CD versions, of Mint 12, OpenSuse, Ubuntu (latest) and a tiny distro - Sli Taz. Mint and Ubuntu are virtually undistinguishable apart from the "skin" - OpenSuse looks nice, but just took too long to do anything, and I love the concept of Sli Taz - but there could be only one to start with, so I bravely wiped Windows completely from a spare laptop with Ubuntu 11.10. (Install took a lot longer than I expected on an old 1.7 Pentium M IBM Thinkpad, with 512MB Ram - around 4.5 hours.)
Now, the primary reason for wanting to do this was to experiment, but I was also curious to know if bypassing MS would fix the problem I had with using my HRT Music Streamer II USB DAC with one of my IBM's... The good news was that it was plug and play - and Ubuntu is very intuitive to use, so setting up the sound to output to the HRT was a doddle. The bad news of course is that the digital "interference" problems I had with windows are still there, so it is now definitely a hardware problem - either compatibility or something I hadn't considered - that the HRT might actually be faulty...
But I digress - aside from this issue, I quite like the Ubuntu experience, and I will carry on using it for a while to see how I get on with it.
My next plan is to try a really small distro like Sli Taz on a 10 year old Dell D800 Latitude, where all I want it to do is recognise the HRT and an external HDD, and play FLAC files... Work very busy and off on a road trip for a couple of days, but maybe at the weekend. :)
Alex,
Congrats on taking the plunge into Penguin Land. But, 4.5 hours for an install? Something not quite right there .. even with just 512Mb of memory.
Glad to hear Linux has at least grabbed enough of your attention for you to persevere with it. You weren't very specific about your HRT streamer problem(s), there is chat on the about its tempremental nature. Care to elucidate?
Linux on your old DELL D800 should be OK, here's a couple of refs that might help.
http://www.mikehardy.net/linux_latitude_d800/
http://penguin-breeder.org/latitude/
They are not necessarily up to date. But if there is a LiveCD of the distro you wish to try, then that will will give you a good idea if all the laptop's hardware is recognised.
SliTaz is something I have never used, but it looks interesting.
Hi Alex :)
It takes just under one hour for me to download (Broadband) install and setup Ubuntu 10.04 and DeaDBeef on a 1.5 GHz 512MB RAM Sony Vaio laptop.
For Lubuntu/DeaDBeef one hour ten minutes.
Linux Mint, under one hour and a half.
Lunbuntu/MPD/MPC around three hours, depending on what i forget to do..
These were all installations from CD to dual boot config.
Using a 3.0 GHZ, 4 GB RAM, 7200 HD and not particularly brilliant optical drive machine the times don't change by much.
All installations on this to a clean drive.
I am having a few problems with getting a real time kernel to work but that's coz i don't really know what I'm doing yet.
I haven't had any problems with the HRT either. In fact,barring the Lubuntu/MPD set up these installation have been quicker and easier than WinXP/foobar2000/aiso4all and dare i say..........sound better ;)
Sounds like something is broke in your setup :(
Alex,
I had a quick look at SliTaz by running it in VirtualBox ( it only took minutes to install :) ). It has a very small footprint re resources, documentation looks very good with much that is relevant to any version of Limux.
But I was struck by the early version mumbers of both the kernel and alsa. While using an early kernel may not be a problem for you, using alsa 1.0.20 would be. So to get your HRT streamer supported you'd have to install all the necessary latest ALSA packages from the SliTaz "cooking" repository, a "tazpkg upgrade" won't do it. I'm not sure you can select individual packages to add from "cooking" to an install based on the lastest stable release.
Using the lastest stable SliTaz iso, 3.0, I found I had to reinstall alsa-utils before the "aplay" command was recognised. (tazpkg --forced get-install alsa-utils). As I wrote earlier in this thread, using "aplay" is a good way to determine if your sound device is recognised and how to use it.
There are other lightwieght distros you could choose. How much memory is installed on your DELL laptop?
Ps One thought about your 4.5 marathon install. Had you choosen to downlaod the upgrades while you did the Ubunut install?
@Chris
The aplay command and a number of others you mention don't work in Ubuntu 10.04 even though Alsa Utils is installed.
I found others that do work but i cant find them atm.
@Chris
The aplay command and a number of others you mention don't work in Ubuntu 10.04 even though Alsa Utils is installed.
I found others that do work but i cant find them atm.
Strange, what about:
sudo aplay -l
If that works, it looks like only root has access to these commands in 10.04 , that's not what I'd expect.
Ps One thought about your 4.5 marathon install. Had you choosen to downlaod the upgrades while you did the Ubunut install?
Yep, banged to rights I am! It seemed a sensible choice at the time... :sofa: :lol:
I need to have another play when home at the weekend, but thanks to both you and John thus far - whether for audio or not, I will definitely be exploring linux further, so thanks. :)
Almost finished the Ubuntu/DeaDBeef rewrite Alex and not only is it easy, the audio sounds better than foobar2000/aso4all and Win7 to me.
Almost finished the Ubuntu/DeaDBeef rewrite Alex and not only is it easy, the audio sounds better than foobar2000/aso4all and Win7 to me.
++1
I'd really like to know what you think of OSS4 compared to ALSA.
Had you thought about installing it? PCLiunxos has a nifty way to create an ISO image of an install. So If I can work out if/how its possilbe to remove ALSA and install OSS4 on it, then I can create a LiveCD you can run and so test OSS4 for yourself. Thats' if you're willing to give it a try.
2nd thoughts it might be easier to take the 10.4 Ubuntu route to get OSS$ and then use reconstructor. It all depends if this can be done inside VirtualBox or not.
I've been trying to prise OSS4 into Lubuntu Chris but keep feckin it up. :(
I'll get there eventually. I'm persistent if nothing else ;)
I've been trying to prise OSS4 into Lubuntu Chris but keep feckin it up. :(
I'll get there eventually. I'm persistent if nothing else ;)
Not to deter you, but I had forgotten support for USB audio in OSS4 is not as good as with ALSA. So I'm not sure your HRT streamer is supported.
Another route to take would be to just donwload a FreeBSD / PC-BSD liveCd. BSD uses the open sound sytem by default. There was a guy over at audio circles who reckoned OSS beat ALSA for SQ using MPD etc. I'll look for a ref.
Nighty-night.
Hi Mike.
A couple of points.
At AoS the boss likes new members to do a bit of an introduction in the Welcome section before you start posting. ;)
Once you've got that sorted; which real time kernel did you get working in Ubuntu 10.04?
Thanks for the tip on the intro. I fixed that this morning.
Regarding the RT kernel, its been a while, but if memory serves I followed these instructions in this (somewhat long) thread:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1602827&page=4
So far so good.
Whell,
That's a good tip apout using USB sticks for testing out various Linux versoins.
You have the kit to determine if RT kernel makes any differennce in audio playback. I can see it would be important if recording music, but I'm not sure about its relevance for audio playback.
John,
Spent a bit of time looking at methods to re-master a Linux LiveCD. My aim was simply to produce a LiveCD that was configured to use OSS4 so you could just pop it into the CD drive, let it boot and go on to test if OSS4 works on your sound hardware and compare the SQ to ALSA.
After a quick survey of various distros, I decided sticking with one based on Debian was best. But not Ubunutu, so as to avoid pusleaudio and other stuff.
I picked aptosid 32bit XFCE version. It's up to date, unlike plain vanilla Debian which is stable but uses early version numbers for the kernel and other software.
Trying to re-master aptosid had eluded before, but I managed to pull together enough info to work out a method. It's a manual process, and after some failry intensive work in VirtualBox I generated a customised version of the aptosid 32bit XCFE iso which still fits on a CD. :)
Just needs a bit more testing and refinement ..
Oh dear, I've been very very thick here.:doh:
My re-master would/will help others ( and me) to test OSS4, but a simple route for those who already have a working debain based distro is just to give them the OSS4 deb file that the source build process creates (either 32 bit for 64 bit). If you have first purged your system of ALSA and done a dpkg-reconfigure linux-sound-base and reboot, you should only need to instal the deb file, re-boot, and after a bit of post-instal test/configure that's it.
So John, this could be for you ...
PS Just to say the range of sound device supported is not as great as ALSA, USB support is less developed and AFAIK does not include USB audio class2 devices. Many popular s/cards are very well supported, as is HDA . A list (two years old) is here:
http://manuals.opensound.com/devlists/Linux.html
Judging by the OSS kernel modules generated the list appears to be right. Try the opensound forum for specific hardware advice.
http://www.opensound.com/forum/index.php
Also FreeBSD/PC-BSD uses OSS by default ( not the same as OSS4) where USB audio support is, I believe better.
Sounds interesting Chris. Thanks for putting the time and effort in. :)
My interest in OSS4 is it seems the Russians are better mathematicians when it comes to re-sampling algorithms. I've read in a number of places that that OSS4 may well push the signal to noise ratio over 100 compared to ALSA's mid 90's.
Whether this difference is audible is something best left to the more hysterical audiophiles.;)
I must write that in general I'm not a fan of trying stuff from a live installation grafted onto an existing operating system. While it's great for seeing how things look, I have reservations about it being a fair assessment of the actual performance.
Sounds interesting Chris. Thanks for putting the time and effort in. :)
If you want the deb file, let me know. It should just ( me and my big mouth) install with:
sudo dpkg i xxxx.deb
My interest in OSS4 is it seems the Russians are better mathematicians when it comes to re-sampling algorithms. I've read in a number of places that that OSS4 may well push the signal to noise ratio over 100 compared to ALSA's mid 90's.
Ah the Russians have been and gone with their "exact scientific resampler"
Whether this difference is audible is something best left to the more hysterical audiophiles.;)
Plenty of hystria in these threads ....
http://www.opensound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4335&sid=1e9191e4179682e86503b1869c61204f
http://www.opensound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4035
I must write that in general I'm not a fan of trying stuff from a live installation grafted onto an existing operating system. While it's great for seeing how things look, I have reservations about it being a fair assessment of the actual performance.
Possibly, but folk actually run Linux from a USB stick on some small devices. Back to messing with the re-master thing ...
This is a re-write of my Day With Ubuntu and DeaDBeef.
Hopefully its a bit easier to follow and a bit less scary.:eyebrows:
If you are relatively new to file based audio, a Windows XP/Vista/Win7 user, have a low powered laptop I just cant recommend this installation highly enough.
When I started with file based audio I was pretty much permanently confuzzeled and frustrated.
Like many I suspect, I had read it was all plug and play convenience and when I tried it, I found it was nothing like this.
If you want convenience buy a record player or a CD deck. :ner:
You don't really get any idea of how Ubuntu is going to perform on your hardware from running it “live” from a CD drive; It's going to be slow and you will be limited in what you can and cant do with it.
One of the main problems for the audiophile seeking high quality audio file replay form a computer is that Windows and now many Linux mainstream distributions re-sample audio data to 16/48 by default. This bit depth and frequency was adopted to make multi media easier for the computer to handle given the number of different codecs and bit/frequency inputs available from internet streams, DVD playback and CD replay.
Unfortunately no re-sampling process is absolutely perfect and in general the algorithms used in computers to re-sample are not of particularly high quality. A good quality digital to analogue converter for example may give you a signal to noise ratio of 115db, the re-sampling process in the average computer may only give 90db.
Each time audio data is re-sampled some errors are introduced and these errors can manifest themselves as distortion. Roughly speaking, the more times you re-sample audio data the more distortion can be introduced. It is quite possible for audio data to be re-sampled a number of times by the audio management layers in a computer before it gets to an external Dac, where it may, depending on the Dac, get re-sampled yet again.
There are ways to avoid the re-sampling of audio in a computer and this is what WASAPI, asio4all, Direct Sound and Kernel streaming relate to.
Another problem for the audiophile is computer operating systems are designed to multi task and all this activity not only generates noise but can also mean the computer may be busy doing something else other than concentrating on getting audio files from storage to your Dac.
A bit of research on the internet will show you that the majority of commercially built file servers/music streamers/audiophile music centres use a Linux operating system, mainly because a developer is free to adapt and alter the way a Linux operating system works without the legal problems associated with license and copyright. The code that was used to build any particular version of Linux is available to anyone to study and use; Hackers!
A brief read on any audiophile forum that deals with file based audio will show you the lengths audiophile go to get their music files from storage to Dac at their native bit depth and frequency with minimal re-sampling while keeping the computer from doing all the stuff a modern multi tasking operating systems is capable of.
What's clever about DeaDBeef is designed to bypass the audio management layers that deal with internet streaming and DVD playback for examples and deal directly with ALSA the base audio layer in Ubuntu and when you want to play net streams etc, it releases ALSA and other audio layers such as gstreamer take over.
There are other Linux based audio players that can do similar but so far DeaDBeef has been the easiest to set up.
The method outlined below will give you native bit depth and frequency file replay for 16/44.1 (what your CD's are) and still allow your computer to do the multi tasking stuff that some full blown audio file servers are unable to do by design.
You can run this with acceptable performance on any computer that has a 1.2 GHz processor or above, 512 MB of RAM or above and 10 GB of free space on your hard drive. For more exact requirements read the info on the download site.
I think this, or any of the Ubuntu distributions and DeaDBeef are ideal for those who are interested in getting decent sound out of a computer without committing themselves to an audio only server, or wrestling with Windows, or paying through the nose for a Mac.
It's all free. It takes about 1 hour to complete assuming you have a broadband internet connection and the hardware to hand and know how to access BIOS (Plenty of guides on the net) on your computer and set the Boot sequence to optical/CD/DVD as first boot option, and an application capable of burning an ISO image to disc.
Installing Ubuntu.
Download Ubuntu 10.04 from here (PC (Intel x 86) Desktop CD.
http://releases.ubuntu.com/lucid/
Burn the ISO image download to a CD RW.
Disconnect any external hard drives.
Make sure your Dac is connected.
Set your computer to boot from the optical/DC/DVD drive.
Insert the CD RW with the ISO image and shut down the computer.
Restart the computer.
Ubuntu will auto start.
You will at the relevant stage need to pick whether you want to run Ubuntu from the CD (live) or install it on your hard drive.
Pick Install Ubuntu, either dual boot (keeps your Windows OS) or, Use Complete Drive option.
The Use Complete Drive option will erase your Windows operating system!
Next, assuming dual boot, you will be given the the choice of how much room to give Ubuntu on your hard drive; 10 Giga Bytes is imo the minimum.
This is done by clicking on a slider and dragging it to give the required amount of room.
Don't allow the installation to update during installation. (cant remember if its an option or not now)
Once the installation is complete you'll get a screen of type and the CD should self eject.
Remove the CD, shut the CD tray and press Enter.
From now on you will boot into Ubuntu by default.
Once Ubuntu has booted shut down the computer.
Restart and go back into BIOS and reset your primary boot device to your hard drive.
On exiting BIOS you will automatically re-boot into Ubuntu.
Setting Up Ubuntu.
Bear in mind this set up is for a usable general purpose computer, not an outright audio only setup.
Ububntu 10.04 can be stripped to perform decently as a music only installation but there are better Linux distributions for this.
You will probably have Ubuntu's Update Manager showing in the taskbar (bottom left of your screen) Click on Update Manger and then close it without updating.
Go to System (top left)>Preferences>Screensaver
and un-check the two boxes Activate Screen Saver When Computer Is Idle, and Lock Screen Saver.
Next click on the Power Management bar and in the new Window set Put Computer To Sleep... to never and set Put Display To Sleep... to Never.
Click Make Default and Close Screen Saver and Power Management windows.
Next go to Applications>Ubuntu Software Centre.
Click the Sound & Video Icon and click on Adobe Flash Plugin.
Accept all the conditions and Install. This will enable you to watch the various iplayers, Utube etc.
Now click on the Get Software bar at the top of the window and you'll be back to the page of Icons.
Click on the Internet Icon and install Adblock Plus extension for Firefox.
When Firefox opens you'll get a page from Adblock Plus giving a choice of block lists to choose.
The top one on the list is fine, click on it and at the bottom of that page is a Subscribe bar, click on that and close Firefox.
Go back to Applications>Ubuntu Software Centre>Get Software and go to Internet.
Scroll down the list of applications until you get to Firestarter and install it.
The only disadvantage I've found with Firestarter is it isn't easy to configure to auto start when you boot up so for the moment just remember to go to Applications>Internet>Firestarter and run it after you boot Ubuntu. You can configure Firesarter to minimise to tray under Edit>Preferences in the Firestarter window.
Now go to System>Administration>Synaptic Package Manager (SPM).
In the SPM window is a Quick Search bar. Type Rhythmbox into the search bar.
You should see a scrollable selection below and Rhythmbox should have a small green box adjacent to its entry.
Click on the green box and a munu offering installation/uninstall options should appear.
Choose Complete Removal and then click Apply in the main window.
Close SPM when the operation is complete.
Next go to System>Preferences>Sound
Set Sound Theme to No Sounds and make sure Output Volume is unmuted.
In the Hardware tab click on the Internal Audio image and in the Profile box below set this to Off
Click on the image of your Dac and pick Digital Stereo Duplex Audio.
(due to the number of different Dacs the choices in Profile will differ. What you want is to find your Dac giving Digital Duplex Stereo output)
Go to the Output tab and there should only be one option showing and that should be your Dac.
Click on the the circle adjacent to your Dac's entry and close Sound.
Finally System>Preferences>Startup Applications.
Find Pulse Audio in the list and uncheck it.
There are a number of other options here that you may not need to autorun and you can return to these later once you've become more familiar with the setup.
Installing & Setting Up DeaDBeef
Applications>Accessories>Terminal
(Commands in green)
Type,
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:alexey-smirnov/deadbeef
into the terminal and press Enter on your keyboard.
You'll be asked to type in your password here. Carefully type in your password IT WONT SHOW ON THE SCREEN and press enter.
Type,
sudo apt-get update
and press Enter
Type,
sudo apt-get install deadbeef
and press Enter.
You will then be asked to accept the installation,
Type,
Y
When the installation is complete close the Terminal.
Now plug in your external hard drive. It should be automatically recognised by Ubuntu and an icon representing your drive will appear on the desktop.
Go to Applications>Sound & Video>DeaDBeef and in the DeaDBeef window, Edit>Preferences.
In the Sound tab, Output Plugin, choose ALSA Output Plugin.
In the Output Device, pick your Dac making sure its the Digital Output Option, USB Audio IEC 958 S/PDIF in my case. Yours may be different depending on the Dac.
In the next tab, Playback, disable Replay Gain.
Now go to the Plugin tab. Click on the ALSA Output Plugin and in the window on the right the option to configure it will show. Click on it.
Un-check, Use ALSA Resampling
Check, Release Device When Stopped.
There may be some benefit in adjusting the buffer and period size but you can experiment with this once your up and running.
Close DeaDBeef.
Finally go to System>Administration>Update Manager and update your installation.
The easiest way to play file music is to start DeadBeef, Open the locationof the music you want to play (in my case the external drive that self mounted on the desktop and drag and drop the fileinto DeaDBeefs Default playlist window.
You can if you wish drag a complete collection into this window.
There are quite a few things you can do to alter the look of DeaDBeef (add columns, album art (which is covered in the other post) get it to load from a location etc) but to go through them all would take way too long.
If you find that DeaDBeef wont run particularly after streaming internet content go to
System>Preferences>Sound>Hardware and click on the icon/image of your Dac and then go to Output and do the same.
For some reason the system tries to revet to Internal Audio. While this can be a bit irritating at times the above solution has worked for me for the past week.
I've had a couple of very frustrated people interested in getting into file based audio contact me struggling with some of the terminology and how a computer works basics.
You can break a computer down to a few distinct parts. I just want to briefly mention those relevant to getting decent audio out of these machines.
The Hard Drive.
Most computers have a hard drive; its just a big storage disc. You can also store stuff on USB sticks, Flash memory cards like you have in a camera or mobile phone. There is no reason why you cant have an operating system on a USB or Flash drive as long as it has the capacity.
The Optical and/or Floppy drive.
These are primarily there to enable you to play external media (CD's DVD's etc) but they can also hold an operating system and if configured correctly, allow your motherboard to run a complete operating system without having to install it to the main hard drive.
The Motherboard (MOB)
This is the circuit board that everything plugs into.
Most motherboards come with basic audio drivers pre installed. Sound cards and the audio drivers you download or get from a CD that comes with your computer are just to enhance what the drivers on the motherboard can do and make arranging where audio is sent and the effects you can apply to it more user friendly.
More importantly your motherboard comes with a small but powerful program installed in a chip, this is called BIOS. You can start (boot) a computer with only BIOS. You do not need an operating system for this.
One of the things that BIOS does is tell the computer where to look for the information about how it is to start up and what it is to use for an operating system.
So, if you have more than one operating system; say two on your hard drive, another on a CD and another on a USB stick then you need to be able to instruct BIOS where to look first.
If you don't tell BIOS to at look at say your CD drive first it will by default look at the primary drive and that is usually your hard drive.
There are lots of things you can do in the BIOS menu but the most important thing to be able to do when installing any operating system is tell the BIOS where you want it to look first.
Anyone interested in file based audio needs to be able to do this.
If you know the make and model number of your computer, somewhere on the internet you can find out what key you need to press to get into BIOS.
The DEL or one of the F keys are favourite. Usually a screen appears briefly with writing at the bottom telling you to press a certain key to access BIOS.
As long as you are careful and read the options in the BIOS menu (selections are made using the arrow keys on your keyboard) and follow the instructions regarding saving changes and as long as you only change the boot priority you cant go far wrong.
brian2957
19-01-2012, 22:33
Thanks John , downloading Ubuntu 10.04 as I type.
Brian.
Good for you mate :)
I'm not really working for Linux :eyebrows: its just this is way easier then fecking about with foobar and asio4all, much as i like both applications.
A brief look at my Hi Fi is enough to convince anyone I really don't care what it looks like, its decent audio I'm interested in. :eek::lol:
brian2957
19-01-2012, 23:09
Aye me too mate. Just don't have the money to spend on a sooper dooper ultra expensive hifi system . Anyway my old Dell laptop with music files sounds better than the mid-priced CDP which I was using even with XP/WMP 9. That's why I'm trying to persevere with this . TBH with you I've been more than happy with this.If I can get better audio than the combo I'm using just now I'll be well chuffed.:)
Brian.
John,
I've just had a chance to test drive your re-written a “Day With Ubuntu and DeaDBeef” … in VirtualBox and can now better appreciate the strengths of Ubuntu 10.4.
This is an excellent no-nonsense guide, a job well done.
I do have a couple of questions:
1. Did you have a particular reason for installing Firestarter? If the user has a router firewall why bother?
2. In Deadbeef setup, should SuperEG and Resampler be removed from DSP?
Points of info:
1. When you finish work in a linux terminal just type “exit”
2. You've used 32bit Ubuntu. It all works just as well in 64bit with the exception that adobe flashplayer would need to be donwloaded from get.adobe.com/flashplayer. Just select the Ubuntu 10.4 version and follow the promtps to install it.
3. Deadbeef refused to accept a xxx.pls file until I used synaptic package manager to install the “deadbeef-plugins-dev” package. This should cure your earlier problem with mu3 playlists.
Looking forward to the MPD guide ...
Oh well done Chris. Can't thank you enough really. It's not a decent guide until someone else tests it and comments.:respect:
I'm really pleased at least someone has given it ago.:thumbsup:
Also pleased you think it's a good combination.
I installed Firestarter for a couple of reasons; firstly my router firewall isn't all that tbh. It got in the way a few times when I was experimenting with streaming.
Another point is a great many people dont have a clue how to configure their router firewall so it's a belt and braces approach.
Interestingly, Firestarter has a couple of useful features if you use Transmission but prolly best not to go there ;)
I haven't had the opportunity to mess about with the DSP possibilities.
This setup and guide isn't really for me. For an audio only, client and server on same machine set up I would probably go for Puppy Linux/mpd/mpc or similar; still playing with it.
I'll give the mu3 file tip a go and thank you.
Just cant say how chuffed I am you've given it a try. Get to think I'm wasting my efforts if nobody tries it out ;)
Thought I would add this to give an idea of how Ubuntu and DeaDBeef can look.
Easy to read. Music folders in list view on left with title and type chosen in list preferences on external drive.
DeaDBeef on right with Album art, bit rate, samplerate and radio tabs (cheers Chris, it works for m3u files now)
Could do with another USB port on the laptop for a second external drive really.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/195bb6eef425c60a2527603c75e024b94de6d8a52000c1b001 a246f6db56b5d44g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?thumb=5&quickkey=53ydvqsaaqwlquw)
Oh well done Chris. Can't thank you enough really. It's not a decent guide until someone else tests it and comments.:respect:
I'm really pleased at least someone has given it ago.:thumbsup:
No problem, I was happy to do it. Your guide deserves to be a forum sticky and not left lingering in a long thread. Perhaps it's time we had a little computer corner at AOS.
Also pleased you think it's a good combination.
It's a good choice for the Linux starter.
I installed Firestarter for a couple of reasons; firstly my router firewall isn't all that tbh. It got in the way a few times when I was experimenting with streaming.
Another point is a great many people dont have a clue how to configure their router firewall so it's a belt and braces approach.
Interestingly, Firestarter has a couple of useful features if you use Transmission but prolly best not to go there ;)
Fair enough, better than grappling with iptables to write firewall rules from scratch.
I haven't had the opportunity to mess about with the DSP possibilities.
This setup and guide isn't really for me. For an audio only, client and server on same machine set up I would probably go for Puppy Linux/mpd/mpc or similar; still playing with it.
I'll give the mu3 file tip a go and thank you.
I see it's fixed your minor deadbeef problem
Just cant say how chuffed I am you've given it a try. Get to think I'm wasting my efforts if nobody tries it out ;)
Always happy to exchange ideas/info/opinions about Linux audio and encourage others to give it a go.
Keep the guides comming. I'm going to try my hand at creating a "stick oss4 on ubuntu" screencast, which if succcesful I can post on you tube.
I'm really pleased at least someone has given it ago.:thumbsup:
I will give it a run through too, John - but probably not this weekend I suspect. Looks like a great guide, so thanks again.
If you find that DeaDBeef wont run particularly after streaming internet content go to
System>Preferences>Sound>Hardware and click on the icon/image of your Dac and then go to Output and do the same.
For some reason the system tries to revet to Internal Audio. While this can be a bit irritating at times the above solution has worked for me for the past week.
I'm not sure what the problem here is; still working on it.
However, I have found that sometimes DeaDBeef still wont run doing the above.
However, if you do the above but leave the Sound window open, making sure your Dac is highlighted in both Hardware and Output and then click on DeaDBeef in Applications>Sound & Video it loads.
You can then close Sound.
I was going to finish my “make yer music look nice in Ubuntu 10.04” but I got distracted by my quest to install the latest ALSA sound drivers.:eyebrows:
After more crashes than a bad Friday night on the M5 after a sales convention, from trying the various methods advocated by the geek squad; none of which worked I might add, :rolleyes: I bit the bullet and went for the upgrade path from Ubuntu 10.04 to 11.04. There are a number of ways of doing this; the easiest has to be a scratch install but you'll need to back up your stuff.
However, you can do it from within 10.04, but it's slow, mainly because you cant jump from 10.04 to 11.04; you have to install 10.10 first.:mental:
Is it worth it?
I'm rather fond of 10.04 LTS now and had deep reservations about a total distribution upgrade but I really really wanted the new drivers and a better sorted Pulse audio so I went for it.
Well worth the hassle imo.:D
I may write up how to do it after I've finished the make it all look nice bit.
DeaDBeef/Ubuntu 11.04
Oooops forgot to mention what to set DeaDbeef for with the 11.04 installation.
All the settings are the same as in Ubuntu 10.04 except for...
Open DeaDBeef.
Edit>Preferences>Sound>Output Plugin ALSA
Below that;
Output Device> <Your Dac> > Direct Hardware Without Any Conversion.
Close
What advantages does the latest version of ALSA bring to the table?
A few things.
A better sorted Pulse Audio.
Direct music player to hardware (with some players) through ALSA as I understand it.
Easier to lever OOS4 as ALSA replacement.
You can call me delusional but it sounds noticeably better imo.
The only way I can describe it is if you've ever had Windows and asio4all and then replaced asio4all with a true asio driver (asio4all is a wrap), that's the sort of change.
I'm not over keen on the default desktop and changed back to the classic view which is easy to do and speeds things up slightly; couldn't find anything with all those Apple type side buttons :doh:
I had 11.04 on my laptop briefly. Sadly the newer kernel has an issue with certain intel video chips, and I got a black screen / backlight issue. It impacts actually any distro running the same kernel, and the 3.0 series kernels didn't address the issue. I'm stuck at Ubuntu 10 right now. :-(
That said, I've used the same method you've described above to get bit-perfect playback from deadbeef and Clementine. Based on what I've heard, the set up is no different in 11 if you want to play hi-res music files, since Pulse Audio is still in the path unless you bypass it and still down samples whatever runs through it to 16/44. I'd love to know if you find out differently when you use it.
As an alternative, possibly ,"ripping the guts out" of the disto is another option to pursue. Getting rid of stuff that I don't plan to use. Like CUPS for instance, since the laptop is for music and won't ever be hooked to a printer. That way, certain services won't start at boot time, and reduce processing and overhead while the laptop is playing back music. Any thoughts on this?
That's a shame Mike :(
Maybe you can find a way to update to the newer ALSA drivers by another method.
I didn't try the Ubuntu recommended route strangely enough ;) so that might be worth a shot.
The rest of the upgrades weren't anything I particularly wanted. In fact I've stripped out most of the apps and put back what i was comfortable with in 10.04.
Just caught your edit.
I haven't Mike. I'm pretty new to Linux (read reckless) I have one distribution on a partition for "experiments" and another for when i get hacked off and just want stuff to work.
John,
I hesitate to say this, but you'll find two methods in this webref to get the latest ALSA version on Ubunut 10.04 without doing a major upgrade.
http://monespaceperso.org/blog-en/2010/05/02/upgrade-alsa-1-0-23-on-ubuntu-lucid-lynx-10-04/
Complie from source, or add a ppa repository ( as you did for deadbeef)
They both work, I've test drived them in Vbox on 64bit Ubuntu 10.04.
1. Method A guarantees latest ALSA ( 1.0.25) as you are building them from source. Just open a terminal along side the web page and cut and paste the commands.
2. Method B is quick and dirty, and will give you ALSA 1.0.24 (it's the version I use)
The instructions are:
sudo add-apt-respoistry ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev/ppa
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install linux-driver-modules-`uname -r`
(the "`" symbol is on the key to left of number one key)
You can always find info about the latest ALSA drivers here:
http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page
http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Changes_v1.0.24_v1.0.25
Changes in what you are hearing may simply be down to the upgraded ASLA. But certainly pulse audio gets in the way.
As an alternative, possibly ,"ripping the guts out" of the disto is another option to pursue. Getting rid of stuff that I don't plan to use. Like CUPS for instance, since the laptop is for music and won't ever be hooked to a printer. That way, certain services won't start at boot time, and reduce processing and overhead while the laptop is playing back music. Any thoughts on this?Mike,
You can fight this battle from two ends. One, start with a minimal Linux install and just add what you want, or two, start with a typical full distro and strip out what you don't want.
The second has the disadvantage of finding you can't remove things easily because of dependencies, like pulse aduio in Ubuntu. While the first requires a reasonable knowledge of Linux, although it's a good way to learn.
My suggestion would be to try Lubuntu 11.10 on your laptop. It's lightweight, and importantly pulse audio is not embedded in this Ubuntu version. You'll have access to all the sofware you need, it will be the current versions, and it will be familiar to you. It's also easy to switch between ALSA and OSS to test which is best for you.
Using Lubuntu you can get the best SQ you can out of Linux audio running on a PC/Laptop without much effort. I.E don't use any kind of software mixer, don't use software volume control ( set it to max in software), use pure ALSA without things like phonon or pulse audio, config sound apps to use correct ALSA device name, play music in bit depth/freq natively supported by your sound device (s/card, external DAC etc.), reduce process load on PC/Laptop to a minimum by stopping/removing unwanted services **. You can go on to fiddle with changing priorities of processes and set CPU affinity, even create and use RAMDISK(S) to play audio from memory, RT Kernels, etc.
** In Ubuntu and its variants, install "sysv-rc-conf" and use it in a terminal to see what services are running and stop those you don't need or want.
PS With a top-notch Zodiac DAC, which can operate as an USB audio class 2 device, OSS is not for you unless you use FreeBSD/PC-BSD instead of Linux, stick with ALSA.
Mike,
My suggestion would be to try Lubuntu 11.10 on your laptop. It's lightweight, and importantly pulse audio is not embedded in this Ubuntu version. You'll have access to all the sofware you need and it will be familiar to you. It's also easy to switch between ALSA and OSS to test which is best for you.
Using Lubuntu you can get the best SQ you can out of Linux audio running on a PC/Laptop without much effort.
I really liked what I saw from Lubuntu and may try it again. However, it gives me the same backlight issue that I described above. I've tried the various fixes described on the web for this. However, at least on my laptop, they weren't reliable solutions.
Sorry, Mike, I wasn't concentrating re: your Intel Video Chip backlight issue. Are there no fixes/patches at all out there? What is the chip, and make/model of your laptop? Have you tried a 3.1 series Kernel? Is 2.6.38 the lastest working kernel version number?
Depending on your answer, downgrading or upgrading the Lubuntu kernel seems the thing to try. This is just one of the webpages offering guidance:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/80943/how-to-downgrade-kernel
and this:
http://www.howopensource.com/2011/08/how-to-install-linux-kernel-3-1-rc2-oneiric-in-ubuntu-11-04-10-10-and-10-04/
Or stick to Lubuntu 10.4, if it works, and install the latest ALSA, which you'll need for "USB audio class 2".
Cheers Chris.
I'll try "quick and dirty" thanks ;)
At least 10.04 is stable. 11.04 goes a bit funky from time to time. :D I don't mind funnily enough because I'm rather enjoying learning what works and what doesn't.
Don't spose you've got a quick and dirty upgrade for Pulse from 10.04 while I'm at it?
The newer Pulse definitely behaves better.
Sorry, Mike, I wasn't concentrating re: your Intel Video Chip backlight issue. Are there no fixes/patches at all out there? What is the chip, and make/model of your laptop? Have you tried a 3.1 series Kernel? Is 2.6.38 the lastest working kernel version number?
Chris -
This post describes the issue pretty well, and references my specific laptop:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1743301
The Acer has the Mobile Intel GL40 Express Chipset. Checking this issue out, it appears to be more of a "Linux issue" than specifically an Ubuntu issue. I've seen folks report the issue when running other brands of laptops with this chipset, and also when attempting to run other Linux distros besides Ubuntu and its variants (Fedora and PCLinuxOS for example).
The fix described in the post will resolve the issue and get me to the Ubuntu desktop. But if I close the lid on the laptop and come back later, the screen stays black and I have to reboot.
Funny that the older versions of Linux don't have the issue. Its the more recent kernel versions that present the challenge (starting with Ubuntu 11.04 for example). The issue has also carried forward into the newer 3.0 kernels.
Cheers Chris.
I'll try "quick and dirty" thanks ;)
At least 10.04 is stable. 11.04 goes a bit funky from time to time. :D I don't mind funnily enough because I'm rather enjoying learning what works and what doesn't.
Don't spose you've got a quick and dirty upgrade for Pulse from 10.04 while I'm at it?
The newer Pulse definitely behaves better.
Afraid not John. No one's created an equivalent ppa, or at least I didn't find one. And as you have already found out the Ubuntu way of doing things doesn't really allow for mix and match between releases. Pure Debian is a bit diiferent.
I'm not Ubuntu expert, so you could try the Ubuntu forums.
Chris -
This post describes the issue pretty well, and references my specific laptop:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1743301
The Acer has the Mobile Intel GL40 Express Chipset. Checking this issue out, it appears to be more of a "Linux issue" than specifically an Ubuntu issue. I've seen folks report the issue when running other brands of laptops with this chipset, and also when attempting to run other Linux distros besides Ubuntu and its variants (Fedora and PCLinuxOS for example).
The fix described in the post will resolve the issue and get me to the Ubuntu desktop. But if I close the lid on the laptop and come back later, the screen stays black and I have to reboot.
Funny that the older versions of Linux don't have the issue. Its the more recent kernel versions that present the challenge (starting with Ubuntu 11.04 for example). The issue has also carried forward into the newer 3.0 kernels.
OK, this really does look like a Kernel problem. So if you don't want to stick with what you have, a workaround is to use Lubuntu 11.10 (32 bit or 64bit) and install an earlier Ubuntu kernel.
For your audio hardware you must have "USB audio class 2" support both in the kernel and ALSA, and a later version of MPD if you ever intend to use it.
AFAIK this means:
kernel version => 2.6.32
alsa version => 1.0.23
(MPD version => 16.0 )
Lubuntu fits the bill, and you should avoid your Intel graphics problem by using, for example, kernel 2.6.35.24 generic, which I think needs no security fixes (worth checking).
This page bascially shows the method to use:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/71139/how-to-downgrade-the-kernel-on-11-10
But it's not quite the whole story ( as I found out). Ubuntu, and it's variants, do not expose the boot menu where you need to select this alternative kernel, unless you install and use something called “boot-repair”. See here:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
Don't reinstall GRUB, just unhide the boot menu. On reboot you'll see an option for “Previous Linux Versions” - select that, and then select the kernel to boot from the displayed list.
I tested this in VirtualBox and all is OK. But obviously, it will only be after you've tried it on your laptop that will we know if there any problems.
Ok Chris. I took some time tonight and reinstalled Lubuntu 11.10. I found yet another tweak on the net that might help tame the black screen issue, so we'll see what develops. Also installed the low latency kernel, and cued up some music with the default music player Audacuious. Sounds great so far, but too early to tell if the screen will behave. If it doesn't hold up, maybe swapping kernels will be worth a look.
Thanks for the encouragement to give Lubuntu another try.
Someone has pointed out that I've linked to the desktop version of Ubuntu 10.04 and I'm apparently running this on a laptop.
True; the notebook/laptop versions of Ubuntu (most flavours) are to buggy to mess about with. :doh::(
The dektop versions of all the distributions I've tried so far run fine on my 1.5GHz 512RAM laptop as standard and with a bit of tweaking they're easily as fast as Windows XP.
I am close to completing a most frustrating weekend trying to get to grips with Linux Mint.
Why frustrating? Because on my first foray into the world of Linux I can see the potential and I like what I see very much. I began by using the Gnome based GUI which ships with Mint but rapidly discovered that KDE was much more to my liking. I managed to get Banshee delivering bit perfect audio to the Caiman by following the excellent advice on this thread, and despite a couple of hair pulling moments all seemed tikkety boo and I spent a very enjoyable Saturday afternoon listening to music. Today however it's all gone Pete Tong.
After attempting to play a WM Lossless rip of Joe Jackson's album Night & Day, Linux reported that it didn't support the file type and asked if I would like to search for the right codec, which I did. Since then non of the media players included with mint will play any music files at all without at best, complaining that Linux needs Windows Media Audio plugin installed, or at worst it just hangs. I sent Linux off to search for the relevant plugin but it reports that there isn't one. Any thoughts as to what could be going on here? Please remember I am a Linux virgin so nothing too technical :D
I dunno, I write a perfectly decent guide on Ubuntu 10.04 and DeaDBeef which I know works and everyone rushes of and gets Mint and Banshee :doh:
Well, if you wont do as yer told I can't fecking help ya. :ner:
Sorry Dave, I don't do mints. Chris might have some ideas. ;)
After attempting to play a WM Lossless rip of Joe Jackson's album Night & Day, Linux reported that it didn't support the file type and asked if I would like to search for the right codec, which I did. Since then non of the media players included with mint will play any music files at all without at best, complaining that Linux needs Windows Media Audio plugin installed, or at worst it just hangs. I sent Linux off to search for the relevant plugin but it reports that there isn't one. Any thoughts as to what could be going on here? Please remember I am a Linux virgin so nothing too technical :D
Hi Dave,
As you discovered WMA is not supported in Linux, you have to convert it to either WAV or FLAC for it to play. Here's a link to a Mint forum post which should help:
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=25318&start=0
Not sure what you done to upset all your media players, I suspect you might have added something called a "mime" entry to your system but it's hard to tell at a distance. I've not made much use of Mint, so I've no idea what/how Mint searches for "codecs". This not something that most version of Linux would automate. I don't have any WMA files I can test this on at the moment. I'll get into WIndows , create a WMA file and go from there ....
It's me again, and I've been talking out of my arse. Scrub what I said before.
I found a couple of WMA files to download, and media players on my machine are happy playing them. Taht's deadbeef, mplayer, and VLC.
This suggests to me you are missing certain program libraries from Mint. A thing called FFMPEG is usually the key to this kind of stuff. And you'd expect to find it installed
Try this command at a treminal:
dpkg -l | grep ffmpeg
That's a lower case L preceeded by a single dash symbol. You would expect some or all of this returned.
dpkg -l | grep ffmpeg
ii ffmpeg 5:0.10-0.0 audio/video encoder, streaming server & audio/video file converter.
ii libavformat52 5:0.7.1-0.1 ffmpeg file format library
ii libswscale0 5:0.7.1-0.1 ffmpeg video scaling library.
ii libxine1-ffmpeg 1:1.1.20.1-0.0 MPEG-related plugins for libxine1
If not, I 'll have to look at Mint. Which version have you used?
Thanks for the link Chris but I've decided to shift to ubuntu 10.04 as I found Mint to be quite unstable :eyebrows:
Thanks for the link Chris but I've decided to shift to ubuntu 10.04 as I found Mint to be quite unstable :eyebrows:
Fair enough, you may hit the same WMA problem in Ubuntu. It's never been my regular distro, and what I had forgotten about is the Ubunutu policy on restricted media formats, as documented here for example:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats#Audio
and Ubunutu uses something called Gstreamer in the backgorund for its multimedia apps. But its should just be a case of installing the restricted-extras stuff.
Back to Mint again as Ubuntu 10.04 is unable find its repositories :doh:
It's this sort of thing that discourages me from using Linux :eyebrows:
Dave. :)
Before you start chucking stuff about, tell me the specifications of the laptop you are planning to use; assuming it is a laptop.
My experience of Mint wasn't that clever I must admit. There are many other Linux OS I would pick before Mint.
If you're looking for something that is basically friendly for a Windows user, but slightly on the heavy side (needs at least 1.5GHz CPU and preferably 1 GB RAM then look at Ubuntu 11.04.
Initially the look of Ubuntu 11.04 put me off, but I've been out and got some hammers and it's looking and acting much better now.
I'm in the process of writing up which hammers you'll need and what to bend.
The advantage in Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty) over Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid) is you get a much more sorted Pulse audio and the latest stable ALSA audio drivers.
The disadvantage to 11.04 (Natty) is its a dead issue. Future upgrades will mean many of the dents you may have made with the hammers will get pulled out by future upgrades so basically what you get is what you keep. Not a problem in my book, I lived with WinXP (which is imo the only stable and sensible Windows release with regard to limited power computers) for years. In fact, it was trying out Win7 that finally drove me to Linux. :eyebrows:
If your computer is lacking in power and you don't mind not having some of the heavy processor apps for editing photos and running twenty five thousand windows at the same time then Lubuntu 11.04 is very nippy and doesn't have Pulse audio which is a plus, and it has the latest stable ALSA audio drivers, and, it rather looks like the development will continue in this vein, more plus.
There are loads of other distributions and some are very good but possibly not the best option for novice Linux users like you and me.
Ubuntu will try and steer you to 10.04 or 11.10
Here is a link for 11.04.
http://releases.ubuntu.com/natty/
You want the PC (Intel x86)
Forgot, don't worry about the restricted formats.
While Ubuntu "encourages" you to use certain formats and doesn't even include mp3 and Xvid as standard you can add whatever repositories you wish to collect applications from reasonably easily.
I don't have any WMA files so I don't know if Ubuntu and DeaDBeef will play them with a default installation.
I have read somewhere that it will, but then I've read a lot of stuff that's been total bollocks which is just one of the reasons I wrote the guide. I actually did the installation; a number of times, so I know it works.;)
Oh arr, stay away from Banshee, it's the Linux version of Windows Media Player and Apple itunes.
Hi John,
Computer power is not a problem dude. Linux will be installed on a 3ghz Core2Duo desktop with 2gb of mem and it will have exclusive use of it's own 2 1/2", 160gb, 7200rpm HDD, so there should be few resource issues. Graphics will be provided by a Sapphire HD4850 PCIe card and whilst not cutting edge these days it is more than capable for what I need it for. Sound is handled onboard by Realtek and there is an SPDIF out on the backplane which currently delivers bit perfect audio to the Caiman via Win7 on the main 2tb HDD. All my media files reside on an external 2tb HDD which will save any faffing about.
I had a mate over yesterday evening who is conversant with Linux to help me with the more difficult issues, although most of his experience has been gleaned from using Fedora so there were features on Mint and Ubuntu which threw him a little. He has no experience of setting Linux up for lossless audio playback however. I'm learning to find my way around the KDE front end quite quickly and I really like its configurability. I am finding Mint to be occasionally unstable but that could be due to user error. Time will tell :D
Do I keep Pulse Audio John or should I remove it from the system? I'll leave Banshee well alone ;)
Chris: The Mint install is ver12 (or Lisa, so I have been reliably informed).
Hi Dave.
I haven't managed to remove Pulse without something breaking yet.:doh:
You can remove it if you don't want to do anything apart from play music files from storage but in the latest Ubuntu based variants Pulse seems well enough behaved not to worry about it. Of course, a lot will depend on the music players ability to talk directly to the ALSA drivers. DeaDBeef seems to be able to do this and then release ALSA for gstreamer to take over.
In short, if you've got Pulse then leave it alone.
If you really need not to have Pulse then pick a distribution such as Lubuntu which doesn't have it.
Another option which i would certainly consider on a computer like yours is XMBC on top of just about any Linux distribution; very decent built in audio drivers, does pretty much everything a full on media centre does (film, audio, etc) it's just a bit resource hungry for a low powered laptop. Keith is yer man for this.
Back to Mint again as Ubuntu 10.04 is unable find its repositories :doh:
It's this sort of thing that discourages me from using Linux :eyebrows:
I'm several step behind you. Again, it's hard to say why you've had this problem.
I just re-installed Ubuntu 10.04 in VirtualBox, it's well behaved, even without updates.
As expected it won't play WMA files "out-of-the-box". Click on a WMA file and we get the "search of codecs" thing. It needs two hits as the dialogues are part of an automated process to install some additional packages.
These appear to be a couple of extra grstreamer packages and associated libraries,, libavcodec52 being a crucial one. This is like installing an exe with its DLLs in Windows.
This completed without error, and WMA files play in the Movie player. but not Rhythmbox (which I dislike)
Don't blame Linux for the "restricted format" thing, it has to be legal and keep the bully boys away.
Playing WMA is a vexing issue for a lot of Ubuntu users, as you can see this simple forum search:
http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=85208884
Hi John,
Computer power is not a problem dude. Linux will be installed on a 3ghz Core2Duo desktop with 2gb of mem and it will have exclusive use of it's own 2 1/2", 160gb, 7200rpm HDD, so there should be few resource issues. Graphics will be provided by a Sapphire HD4850 PCIe card and whilst not cutting edge these days it is more than capable for what I need it for. Sound is handled onboard by Realtek and there is an SPDIF out on the backplane which currently delivers bit perfect audio to the Caiman via Win7 on the main 2tb HDD. All my media files reside on an external 2tb HDD which will save any faffing about.
I had a mate over yesterday evening who is conversant with Linux to help me with the more difficult issues, although most of his experience has been gleaned from using Fedora so there were features on Mint and Ubuntu which threw him a little. He has no experience of setting Linux up for lossless audio playback however. I'm learning to find my way around the KDE front end quite quickly and I really like its configurability. I am finding Mint to be occasionally unstable but that could be due to user error. Time will tell :D
Do I keep Pulse Audio John or should I remove it from the system? I'll leave Banshee well alone ;)
Chris: The Mint install is ver12 (or Lisa, so I have been reliably informed).
First, can i just double check you are using the KDE version of Mint 12 as here:
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1919
Was it 32bit or 64bit?
It's a release candidate, not a final version, hence the reason it may be unstable.
Really, it should not be too hard to get bit-perfect playback on your hardware using any of the major Linux distros. John picked Ubuntu for the reasons his given. It is kind of the "Windows of the Linux world" and like Mint presents the user with a "point and click" interface where you hardly need to touch a terminal and the command line. That's fine up to a point, but hides the power of what's under the hood.
Just like Windows, you'll want to know how to install, update and remove software. This does vary from Linux to Linux. Some have simple repository structures, others like Ubuntu, Suse, and Fedora are more complex with multiple groupings. Each has a way of dealing with multimedia restricted formats.
Pules Audio can get in the way, and was less than stellar in performance when it first appeared in Linux distros like Ubuntu 10.4, degrading SQ. Perhaps we need a simple guide about this. I will have to download and use Mint to see how it's setup.
Hello Mint 12, goodbye pulseaudio.
Installed Mint 12 KDE RC 64bit in Virtualbox, and after one enormous update, WMA appers to play "out-of-the-box". Admittedly this was only a WMA2 audio file, and as you know there re various WMA formats. But the system seems to have the correct packages pre-installed.
dpkg -l | grep gstreamer
ii gstreamer0.10-alsa 0.10.35-1 GStreamer plugin for ALSA
ii gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg 0.10.12-1ubuntu1 FFmpeg plugin for GStreamer
ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.22-2ubuntu4 GStreamer plugins from the "bad" set
ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse 0.10.21-1 GStreamer plugins from the "bad" set (Multiverse Variant)
ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-base 0.10.35-1 GStreamer plugins from the "base" set
ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.30-1ubuntu7 GStreamer plugins from the "good" set
ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly 0.10.18-3ubuntu1 GStreamer plugins from the "ugly" set
ii gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio 0.10.30-1ubuntu7 GStreamer plugin for PulseAudio
ii gstreamer0.10-qapt 1.2.1-0ubuntu2 GStreamer plugin to install codecs using QApt
ii gstreamer0.10-x 0.10.35-1 GStreamer plugins for X11 and Pango
ii libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.35-1 GStreamer libraries from the "base" set
ii libgstreamer0.10-0 0.10.35-1 Core GStreamer libraries and elements
ii libqtgstreamer-0.10-0 0.10.1-2ubuntu3 C++ bindings library for GStreamer with a Qt-style API
ii phonon-backend-gstreamer 4:4.7.0really4.5.1-1ubuntu3 Phonon GStreamer 0.10.x backend
and
dpkg -l | grep ffmpeg
ii gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg 0.10.12-1ubuntu1 FFmpeg plugin for GStreamer
ii libxine1-ffmpeg 1.1.19-2ubuntu6 MPEG-related plugins for libxine1
and
dpkg -l | grep libavcodec
ii libavcodec53 4:0.7.3-0ubuntu0.11.10.1 Libav codec library
VLC, and mplayer both play my WMA fie.
mplayer -ao alsa:device=hw=1,0 test1.wma
MPlayer SVN-r33713-4.6.1 (C) 2000-2011 MPlayer Team
mplayer: could not connect to socket
mplayer: No such file or directory
Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.
Playing test1.wma.
ASF file format detected.
[asfheader] Audio stream found, -aid 1
Clip info:
title:
author:
copyright:
comments:
Load subtitles in ./
================================================== ========================
Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders
AUDIO: 22050 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 32.0 kbit/4.54% (ratio: 4003->88200)
Selected audio codec: [ffwmav2] afm: ffmpeg (DivX audio v2 (FFmpeg))
================================================== ========================
AO: [alsa] 32000Hz 2ch s16le (2 bytes per sample)
Video: no video
Starting playback...
A: 15.8 (15.8) of 147.8 (02:27.7) 1.3%
MPlayer interrupted by signal 2 in module: play_audio
A: 15.8 (15.8) of 147.8 (02:27.7) 1.3%
Exiting... (Quit)
As to pulseaudio, you can dump this without harm on this version of Mint. Either via the synapitc package manager or at the command line. In the packpage manager, search for pulseaudio-utils. Right click on it and select "mark for complete removal". It and other pusleaudio packages will be removed.
PS If you've not done it already then Deadbeff installs and runs OK. Follow John's instructions or use the synpatic package manager.
Open up the "Synaptic Package Manager":
System -> Administration -> Synaptic Package Manager
Bring up the "Software Sources" dialog in the "Synaptic Package Manager":
Settings -> Repositories
Select the "Other Software" tab in the "Software Sources" dialog, click the "+Add" button.
In the "APT line: " text input box type:
ppa:alexey-smirnov/deadbeef
Click the "+Add Source" button, close the "Software Sources" dialog.
Since we've just added a new repository we need to update that database that knows what packages are available and where from. Update the package information by:
Edit -> Reload Package Information
Find the "deadbeef" and "deadbeef--plugins-dev" packages in Synaptic, mark both for install and press "Apply"
Hi Chris :)
Can you still play audio from the Internet (Utube and BBC iplayer for example) in Mint if you purge Pulse?
I must confess, I was a bit shocked when I first booted up Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty)
Instead of a nice clean GUI there was a row of idiot icons stretched down the left hand side and no obvious way of accessing the more powerful tools such as the terminal and Synaptic Package Manager. :eek::(
While I can quite understand that Ubuntu is trying to attract the user who may have come to expect a gongs and whistles operating system and isn't remotely interested in how it works, it's not what attracted me to Linux, not particularly resource friendly and not what I want from an OS.
In this issue at least the discrete application of hammers can return 11.04 to 10.04 in looks and performance while still taking advantage of better audio drivers and audio management. :)
The installation procedure is virtually identical to 10.04 and DeaDbeef detailed in a post above except I chose not to run Update Manger until i had finished bashing stuff about reasoning that hopefully Update Manger wouldn't fetch files for applications I had removed from the system.
This post concerns returning to something that looks and handles like Ubuntu 10.04LTS.
I just want to stress that so far these "guides" concentrate on getting decent audio out of a laptop while still leaving it usable for net streams, video replay, limited graphics editing and word processing.
If a flat out music server is what you're after there are better distributions for this.
Go to Launcher bar (the one at the top) and left click on the power icon and then on the bottom option in the drop down menu, System Settings.
In the new window under System, click on Login Screen.
You'll need to unlock it by entering your password.
Under Select choose Ubuntu Classic No Effects, close everything down and reboot.
Yay! You should have something that looks like 10.04 now with all the idiot icons hidden away and stuff where it used to be. You've also found a quick way to access the a menu that shows much more of the OS content in a single page.:)
Next adjust your startup items. Power Icon>System Settings>Startup Applications.
The only auto starts I have running from this menu are, Disc Notification and Power Mangement.
You have the choice to remove startup items from the list. If you know you wont want something to autorun under any circumstances then remove from list, otherwise just uncheck the boxes on the left. You can always make changes easily later this way.
A warning.
There are loads of quick fix posts on the net regarding Linux,many involving typing stuff into the terminal and pressing Enter. Not many I've tried actaully work, there are too many differnces between one distribution and another and it seems a reluctance by some authors to actually test out that what they write works.:rolleyes:
The problem is, tell the terminal to do something that's possible and before you know it you've got a screen full of print; most of which you wont understand and very often unfortunately, a major system change which if it doesn't actually break stuff, you have no way of knowing how to reverse.
What I'm going to suggest is you combine two tools in 11.04 when optimising the system, the Synaptic Package Manager (SPM) and the Ubuntu Software Centre. Only use the terminal when you're absolutely confident that what you enter is going to produce the desired result.
The advantage of Ubuntu Software Centre is it allows you to research any prospective total system deletions under a name or application group you are liable to recognise.
For example, the Calculator under Applications>Accessories in the top launcher bar doesn't show up as the "Calculator" in SPM, it shows as gcalctool and this can be found out by clicking the More Info tab in Installed Software in the Software Centre, as often can other dependencies and names.
However, to actually completely remove an application from your system SPM is the tool to use.
One you've found the entry you're interested under All (SMP list) (or by using the Quick Search Option in SPM) then by highlighting it and right clicking on it, another menu giving its dependencies and location and often other usefull information becomes availible. Read before clicking Apply, it might just save you a major crash.
I realise it sounds complicated but once you've tried this method you'll quickly see the sense in it and hopefully not only remove the right components but also learn a bit about how one application is related to another and how Ubuntu is built.
I removed everything I found relating to Unity (this is the suite that is responsible for the idiot icons) that was replicated in Ubuntu Software Centre.
I also removed all the Libra Office Suite components.
There is a very powerful text editor under Applications>Accessories and for typing, copy, cut, paste and the rest of the basic document presentation functions it's quick and easy.
Tomboy Notes, the advanced Terminal and a couple of other functions i cant remember depart with Unity; nothing I've missed so far.
What you strip out will of course depend on how you intend to use your setup.
Be very careful when removing Evolution components because some of the dependencies are not obvious and I stuffed up a couple of times tinkering with it.
Running Processes.
Under System>Administration>System Monitor you can find the running processes tab.
Rather than write pages of what may or may not improve performance I'll leave these two links.
You can between the two send your system into virtual hibernation, optimise processor use and monitor what is doing what.
http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/show-all-running-processes-in-linux/
http://ubuntuguide.net/howto-view-and-limit-process-cpu-usage-in-ubuntu-linux
I'll leave you to play.;)
Hi John. Is it okay for me to continue posting my queries on here or would you rather I begin a seperate thread? I'm concious of the fact that you are writing a tutorial for a specific version of Linux and I don't want to muddy the waters.. If I begin a new thread I'll ask a mod to transfer my posts and their replies to said thread ;)
You carry on Dave. :)
Good on you for giving it a go is what I think.
(nobody from this forum is giving it a try anyway)
spendorman
30-01-2012, 15:21
You carry on Dave. :)
Good on you for giving it a go is what I think.
(nobody from this forum is giving it a try anyway)
Ah, but we might be watching!
First, can i just double check you are using the KDE version of Mint 12 as here:
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1919
Was it 32bit or 64bit?
It's a release candidate, not a final version, hence the reason it may be unstable.
Really, it should not be too hard to get bit-perfect playback on your hardware using any of the major Linux distros. John picked Ubuntu for the reasons his given. It is kind of the "Windows of the Linux world" and like Mint presents the user with a "point and click" interface where you hardly need to touch a terminal and the command line. That's fine up to a point, but hides the power of what's under the hood.
Just like Windows, you'll want to know how to install, update and remove software. This does vary from Linux to Linux. Some have simple repository structures, others like Ubuntu, Suse, and Fedora are more complex with multiple groupings. Each has a way of dealing with multimedia restricted formats.
Pules Audio can get in the way, and was less than stellar in performance when it first appeared in Linux distros like Ubuntu 10.4, degrading SQ. Perhaps we need a simple guide about this. I will have to download and use Mint to see how it's setup.
I'm not sure where my friend sourced the version of Mint I'm using but I'm guessing it was from the Mint site. I don't know how to check the version, I only know which it is because I was told by my friend. We sourced KDE through the Software Manager so again I can't tell you which version it is.
I am writing this post from Mint. I intend to use Mint as much as I can for a little while to help me to get used to the look and feel of it. I downloaded Wine earlier so I can have a mess about with it once I'm comfortable working within a Linux environment.
I paid a visit to the XBMC website with the intention of downloading it but found that it is no easy task. I'm used to downloading and installing in Windows where things just work. The XBMC install procedure looks very daunting to me with plenty of scope for cock ups, and believe me if it can be cocked up, I'm your man :lol:
EDIT: Incidentally Chris, this is the 64bit version of Mint ver12 ;)
I must confess, I was a bit shocked when I first booted up Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty)
Instead of a nice clean GUI there was a row of idiot icons stretched down the left hand side and no obvious way of accessing the more powerful tools such as the terminal and Synaptic Package Manager. :eek::(
What you strip out will of course depend on how you intend to use your setup.
Be very careful when removing Evolution components because some of the dependencies are not obvious and I stuffed up a couple of times tinkering with it.
I'll leave you to play.;)
Yes, Unity prompted a small civil war in the Ubuntu community, and chased a number of Ubuntu users over to Linux Mint to avoid the "idiot icons" that you describe. My personal opinion is that Unity looked like an attempt to upgrade/update the look of Ubuntu Netbook Remix, but frankly the Remix interface looks nicer and is easier to use.
Chris steered me back in the direction of Lubuntu 11.10, which has been happily running on the music system laptop for a few days now. I suspect that Lubuntu might give you what you were seeking in Ubuntu 11.04, without all the effort to strip out un-needed / unwanted components.
Some Linux users have reported issues with laptop displays not being managed well by the latest versions of Linux, resulting in "black screen" or "back light issues". These issues are linked to certain Intel chip sets that don't play well with the latest Linux kernels. The good news is that the fix is not difficult for a user to implement. The fix is described here:
http://www.pc-freak.net/blog/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-on-acer-aspire-5736z-notebook-get-around-the-black-screen-install-cd-issue/
The Lubuntu desktop is designed to be a very frugal consumer of system resources. However, it really looks a lot like Windows XP does when XP is first installed an booted up. You get a empty desktop, and the equivalent of a "Start" button where all installed applications are found. Therefore, for must users coming to Lubuntu from the Windows world, they'll find the user interface quite intuitive.
To tweak the system, applications can be added / removed via the command line or Synaptic. The equivalent of Ubuntu's Software Center is also available, but wasn't ready in time for the 11.10 code freeze and release of the Lubuntu 11.10 ISO. However, if you'd like to install it, you can add it by running the following commands from the command line:
sudo apt-add-repository ppa:lubuntu-desktop/ppa
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install lubuntu-software-center
The default music player is Audacious. It is very much like the deadbeef application that Welder describes in prior posts in this thread, and set up is just as easy as deadbeef. The sound quality of the application is also very much like deadbeef, since it is also a "lean" music playing application. I've also installed another music player - Quodlibet - to play internet music streams. Ultimately, any music player that can run under Ubuntu should be able to run under Lubuntu.
However, if installing some music players - like Rhythmbox for instance - caution is advised. Lubuntu is not Ubuntu, and installing Rhythmbox prompts the installation of a host of other software - software that Rhythmbox needs to run under Ubuntu - that may complicate matters for your Lubuntu installation. Options that shouldn't complicate matters include the aforementioned Quodlibet, Guayeduque and Exaile. However, note that these other apps have their own unique "tweaking" requirements to assure that they provide for bit-perfect playback on your system. (This tweaking is really not much different that the tweaking that Windows users need to perform to get Foobar 2000 or J River set up for high quality music playback.)
I'm very impressed with the sound that this system pumps out. The system sounded quite good running under Ubuntu 10.10. However, the lean - running Lubuntu system really seems to take overall sound quality up another notch.
Hope this helps.
Cheers Mike. Keep the info coming. :)
I'm pleased to hear you also think there is a audible difference between Lubuntu (No Pulse Audio) and Ubuntu (With Pulse Audio and different builds depending on the distribution number).
I've got Lubuntu and MPD and DeaDBeef set on another partition (work in progress) and I prefer the sound to Ubuntu so far.
Hi Chris :)
Can you still play audio from the Internet (Utube and BBC iplayer for example) in Mint if you purge Pulse?
I was in too much of a rush before and didn't check, but the answer is yes.
I got Mint KDE down to just two remaining pulse libraries which cannot be removed without taking half the system with them. This is an aspect of pulse audio which really is poor.
[FONT="Courier New"]dpkg -l | grep pulse
ii libpulse-mainloop-glib0 1:1.0-0ubuntu3 PulseAudio client libraries (glib support)
ii libpulse0 1:1.0-0ubuntu3 PulseAudio client libraries[/FONT
I must stress this is the Mint KDE version, not regular Mint to which KDE has been added.
I'm not sure where my friend sourced the version of Mint I'm using but I'm guessing it was from the Mint site. I don't know how to check the version, I only know which it is because I was told by my friend. We sourced KDE through the Software Manager so again I can't tell you which version it is.
I am writing this post from Mint. I intend to use Mint as much as I can for a little while to help me to get used to the look and feel of it. I downloaded Wine earlier so I can have a mess about with it once I'm comfortable working within a Linux environment.
I paid a visit to the XBMC website with the intention of downloading it but found that it is no easy task. I'm used to downloading and installing in Windows where things just work. The XBMC install procedure looks very daunting to me with plenty of scope for cock ups, and believe me if it can be cocked up, I'm your man :lol:
EDIT: Incidentally Chris, this is the 64bit version of Mint ver12 ;)
Cock ups aside, keep at it.
Some of my comments about removing pulseaudio may not apply in your case as it sounds like KDE has been added on top of the standard Mint 12 system, so you have Gnome stuff and KDE present together. If so, you should be able to choose between the two when you log on.
If you are interested in XBMC, there is a XBMC LiveCD you could try out.
One thing, which you may have done already, in KDE turn off the system notification sounds. It's buried in settings > system settings > application and system notifications
Select the player settings tab and choose the no audio output option and hit save. Also, once you set kmix to max volume, close and quit kmix.
Hi Mike,
I'm glad Lubuntu 11.10 is working out for you and that you found a fix for the Intel graphics problem.
On the subject of feedback, could you please tell us what this terminal command returns "uname -a". I was interested to know which kernel you are running. If it's RT, have you made the kind of tweaks to ALSA that are listed here?
https://sites.google.com/site/computeraudioorg/linux-for-audio/setting-up-alsa
If you've think the SQ using Lubuntu is better than Ubuntu, I'd be interested if you can detect any difference between using your laptop with and without the desktop running.
I'd suggest a simple test for which you need a WAV file of music you know well. The idea is to play the file with the audio player of your choice while it's running in the standard Lubuntu desktop, and then compare playback SQ when using "aplay" at the CLI, having first killed the desktop, which will have further reduce the process load and wiil give a more direct communiction with ALSA.
It's good idea to first check that Lubuntu behaves well when moving between "init" states.
At a terminal become root, follow this with an "init 3" which will kill the desktop and leave you at a login prompt. Logon as root and restart the desktop with "init 5". If the Lubuntu desktop restarts without problem, do the test.
First kill the desktop. As root, "init 3". Then log on as your normal user. At the CLI, navigate as necessary to the directory containing your test audio WAV file. Play the file using "aplay" . The command will be of this form:
aplay -v -D hw:x,y test.wav
or
aplay -v -D plughw:x,y test.wav
The correct values for x and y are obtained for the command "aplay -l", see my post #16 in this thread.
I'd really like to know if you can dectect any difference in SQ playing audio files this way.
Hi Mike,
I'm glad Lubuntu 11.10 is working out for you and that you found a fix for the Intel graphics problem.
On the subject of feedback, could you please tell us what this terminal command returns "uname -a". I was interested to know which kernel you are running. If it's RT, have you made the kind of tweaks to ALSA that are listed here?
https://sites.google.com/site/computeraudioorg/linux-for-audio/setting-up-alsa
Chris -
Its not the RT kernel that I'm running. Its the low latency (aka "preempt") kernel along with the vanilla kernel.
uname returns the following:
3.0.0-13-lowlatency #21~ppa1-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Tue Oct 18 06:45:34 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
Would it be correct to assume that the tweaks described above wouldn't be "right" for my set up?
I'll try playing back a file w/o the desktop running later this week. Sounds like an interesting experiment.
Mike
Yes, you're correct those tweaks listed by Dynobot are for a RT kernels only.
Should you ever wish to patch and compile an Ubuntu there some instuctions here:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/72964/how-can-i-install-a-realtime-kernel
I've never bothered, as I mostly use aptosid whose own kernels include many of the RT patches, except for full preemption, and other stuff. e.g for 32 bit
Linux sweep 3.1-5.slh.3-aptosid-686 #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Dec 16 20:26:17 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux
Most distro kernels now include a lot of that was only present in RT patched versions in the past. Few seem to maintain RT kernels. In the past when I've asked the question elsewhere, "is RT relevant to audio playback" the answer has been no. So it's not something I have really pursued.
Let us know what the outcome is if/when you get a chance to do that simple comparison experiment.
After that, MPD should be next on your list....
Mike
Most distro kernels now include a lot of that was only present in RT patched versions in the past. Few seem to maintain RT kernels. In the past when I've asked the question elsewhere, "is RT relevant to audio playback" the answer has been no. So it's not something I have really pursued.
You may be right. Its something that I wanted to try. I can confirm that it sounds "different" than the vanilla kernel. I've not had a lot of time to compare, so I'm not sure yet if it sounds "good different" or "bad different". :scratch:
After that, MPD should be next on your list....
...one of these days.... ;)
Lubuntu and DeaDBeef.
I could rant on for pages about how irritating and frustrating I found Lubuntu to use as a general purpose OS.
What I found most annoying was it found my HRT Dac without any problems and DeaDBeef happily sent audio bit perfect through ALSA.
It didn’t recognise my TP Buffalo Dac for some reason.
Ask the Lubuntu to do a few simple tasks like connect up my headset for Skype, or Team Speak, play net stream radio through the Dac, BBC iplayer, record from a mic on line in, or even auto mount an external drive you’re fecked basically.
There is an excellent guide to getting Lubuntu, mpd up and running here.
https://sites.google.com/site/computeraudioorg/
A couple of points to bear in mind.
Lubuntu now uses Leafpad rather than Gedit so you’ll need to either install Gedit or replace the Gedit commands Leafpad.
MPD configuration has changed since this guide was written so you’ll need to refer to the MPD site for the relevant changes.
I will write that in Lubuntu’s defence when it did decide to play it sounded very good.
I personally cant see the point in using Lubuntu as a base for MPD system when getting it to do stuff Windows or even Ubuntu 11.04 does out of the box takes hours of research on the net if you are not comfortable with Linux. There are Linux operating systems far more suitable for MPD file only systems imo and this guy has almost got an idiot proof installation sorted.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70052
Hi Jeff. Thanks for the mail and I’m glad it all worked. :)
I’m going to keep it all here on AoS for the time being so why not join up. ;)
I am part way through a strip list, mainly for my own reference but I’ll let you have a copy when its done. I may stick it up here at some point.
1) I got rid of Transmission and replaced it with Vuze. Vuze seems to find its own way past ufw without the need to install the config manager and its way faster. The downside is Vuze will push your processor use to 100% quite easily if you try to engage the bells and whistles so run it in the tray in Simple Mode.
2) I took stripped out all the Libre doc packages and installed Abiword.
3) less than 2.7 GB
4) If you strip out the sound manager you leave yourself no easy way to revert to onboard internal sound and you need this to use Skype etc.
5) about 4% but you can see the side bus activity through System Monitor. I haven’t worked out how to reduce the polling rate yet.
Thanks.:)
Well John, I've given both Mint and Ubuntu a spin for just over a week now and I have basically given up on it. Mint is great, especially when using the KDE front end and reasonably stable. Bit perfect audio is a relative doddle to set up compared with Windoze. The problem I have is that SQ suffered using the Linux Mint install compared to my windows set up. I have no idea why this should be, the settings are correct.
The biggest problem with the Mint/KDE and Mint/Gnome packages are that they slow my 3ghz Core2Duo machine down to less than a crawl. This is not only a complete surprise to me but also to my Linux literate friend who runs Ubuntu/Gnome on an old dual core 2.66ghz Celeron PC without any issues.
Ubuntu didn't stay on my system for much longer than an hour because neither of us could get it to see its repositories, which was pretty useless. Again, my friend was at a loss to explain this :eyebrows:
Oh dear Dave :eyebrows:
I didn't like Mint at all, so I cant help you with that one.
You don't say which Ubuntu you tried.
Anyway, the Ubuntu repositories haven't gone anywhere afaik.
The easiest way to access them is to go to Applications>Ubuntu Software Centre and double click Installed Software. A standard installation should show Provided by Ububntu and Canonical Partners.
There are a couple of ways to add more and this is done through System>Administration>Synaptic Package Manager.
Under Settings>Software Sources>Other Sources, is an option to add further repositories.
It's often easiest to get the PPA addition address from a particular application you are interested in and type the address and install in the Terminal.
The three Ubuntu variants I've tried all update the Ubuntu Software Centre once an "outside" application is installed.
As for the performance issues, well Unity in 11.04 slowed my 1.5GHz 512 RAM a bit but once I had got rid of that (instructions above) and Zeitgeist (a monitoring tool removed with Synaptic Package Manager) on my rather old and underpowered laptop 11.04 is faster than Win XP at most things.
I know of 3 people now who knew feck all about Linux who have just followed my 2nd guide and had no problems at all. Maybe dump your Linux mate and follow the guide. ;)
You may have noticed that the guide isn't for Linux Mint and isn't for Linux geeks who tend to type loads of stuff into the terminal that may have worked on their setup but more often than not doesn't work on any one elses.
I had a hunt around for some help for you Dave and this is the best i could come up with at short notice mate ;)
LRBIVRwvUeE
Maybe saying I've given up on Linux was a bit extreme, It's not that I don't want to learn to use Linux because I do. Frankly, I believe Linux is the future although there needs to be better integration between the various flavours before it can take its place at the table. Please forgive my ignorance of the technical and operational aspects of Linux, metaphorically speaking it's not my first language and I don't possess a head for languages. What I am about to write is not meant to be a critique of two operating systems, it is an essay describing my experiences and I extrapolate about where Linux could be in a few years time if the developers get their collective acts together.
I have been using Windows since the advent of Win 3.0, so my experience with Windows OS's goes back a very long way. Over the years Microsoft and I have had our moments but generally I am comfortable using a Windows based PC. Currently there are three desktop PC's, three laptops, and two netbooks in our household and they all run Windows. Of the eight computers, five are running Win7, two XP and one of the desktops has Vista installed. The Win7 and XP machines are all as stable as a rock, whilst the Vista machine is the troublesome teenager of the bunch. I hate Vista with a passion and one day I will exorcise it from the poor machine it has possessed and return to it a sense of spiritual wellbeing :lol:
I know my way around Windows and I am confident and able enough to mess around under the bonnet to a certain degree. What I like about Windows however, and particularly with Win7 and XP, is that I don't find myself having to lift the bonnet too often. I like things to work as they should and in general, under Windows, they just do. I like Win7 best of all because it has never crashed on any of the machines on which it is installed in the years we've owned them. Granted, Windows may not be the most elegant and efficient OS under the surface but Microsoft has hidden it well and have produced in Win7 in particular, a delightful and intuitive user experience.
In some ways Linux is the polar opposite to Windows. Underneath is a lean, mean and efficient operating system dying to get out. Unfortunately IMHO, it is hamstrung by there being too many versions and GUI's. To explain: As I understand it there are several different flavours of Linux which all share a common ancestor, Unix. It's great strength is that it is Open Source but this is also its biggest weakness. There isn't an industry standard version of Linux for the domestic market and until there is it will only ever be a niche OS for home PC's. This is a shame because if Linux developers could agree on a single, stable Linux distro and GUI for your average home user it might actually entice people away from Windows based machines simply because it would slash the cost of a Windows install off the price of a new PC.
Whether fairly deserved or otherwise, Linux has a poor rep amongst Windows users due to its reputation for being unintuitive to operate. This is compounded because no two Linux distros are exactly alike, they all have their own little foibles and ways of doing things. Standardise it for a market onslaught and suddenly you have a potential killer OS. Take up would probably be slow to begin with because it'll take time for word to spread and for the knowledge base amongst your average users to build to a level that Windows users enjoy. In time though, as users become more familiar with it, the success of Linux will skyrocket and suddenly Microsoft will be presented with a very serious competitor.
Lubuntu and DeaDBeef.
I could rant on for pages about how irritating and frustrating I found Lubuntu to use as a general purpose OS.
What I found most annoying was it found my HRT DAC without any problems and DeaDBeef happily sent audio bit perfect through ALSA.
It didn’t recognise my TP Buffalo Dac for some reason.
Ask the Lubuntu to do a few simple tasks like connect up my headset for Skype, or Team Speak, play net stream radio through the Dac, BBC iplayer, record from a mic on line in, or even auto mount an external drive you’re fecked basically.
You are a hard man to please John :) Which version of Lubuntu were you using, 11.10? I don't have any skype kit, but it can be done, the install instructions are here:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation
/FAQ/Guides#How_to_install_Skype
I've had no problems with net stream audio either in deadbeef or using mplayer at the CLI. e.g
mplayer -ao aslsa:device=hw=x.y http: //shoutcast.omroep.nl:8068
Get x and y values from aplay -l .
Of course, BBC iplayer needs the corerct flash plugin to work. As to automounting an external drive was this USB, eSATA or a newtwork drive?
I've only got a USB drive, it's recognised as soon as I plug it in. I've not messed either NFS or sshfs Lubuntu. But tbe PCmanFM picks up a SAMBA share on my network without the need for any post-install configuration. AFAIK, this stuff should work automagically if you have the gvfs packages installed.
I wonder why your Buffalo Dac wasn't recognised, I assume it didn't even appear on the "aplay -L" list. Was it connected pre or post boot?
Well John, I've given both Mint and Ubuntu a spin for just over a week now and I have basically given up on it. Mint is great, especially when using the KDE front end and reasonably stable. Bit perfect audio is a relative doddle to set up compared with Windoze. The problem I have is that SQ suffered using the Linux Mint install compared to my windows set up. I have no idea why this should be, the settings are correct.
The biggest problem with the Mint/KDE and Mint/Gnome packages are that they slow my 3ghz Core2Duo machine down to less than a crawl. This is not only a complete surprise to me but also to my Linux literate friend who runs Ubuntu/Gnome on an old dual core 2.66ghz Celeron PC without any issues.
Ubuntu didn't stay on my system for much longer than an hour because neither of us could get it to see its repositories, which was pretty useless. Again, my friend was at a loss to explain this :eyebrows:
Well, this is a mixed bag to say the least, and without wishing to sound rude, I wonder just how "Linux literate" your friend is. I assume your network connection was up and running when you were trying to acccess the Ubuntu repos. Did you check it with a simple ping comand or ifconfig, or netstat? These are the equivalent of Windows ipconfig etc. Was this just using the package manager, or apt commands at the CLI? Did you make a note of any error messages?
If your core2duo machine was performing so badly running Linux, was it any surprise that audio SQ suffered? Something was definitely wrong with your Mint setup.
Dave,
Mint is great, especially when using the KDE front end ...
Bit perfect audio is a relative doddle to set up compared with Windoz ...
It's not that I don't want to learn to use Linux because I do ...
Frankly, I believe Linux is the future ...
At least you found some merit in Linux, even though you're recent experiences have left you critical of the lack of a “standard Linux” and it being “unintuitive to operate”, and I get the impression you've given up on it for now. That's a pity.
In defence of Linux I would say:
There's strength in diversity.
Modern Linux Distros are intuitive.
You can get by without it, but at some stage getting to grips with the CLI will be to your great advantage.
Unlike Win7, Win XP etc., Linux is a server and workstation OS rolled into one.
As to point one, do a bit of research on the various common distros, and have a look at reviews to appreciate their pros and cons. You could start here:
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computer_software.html#linux
http://distrowatch.com/
For an audio centric install avoid Pulse audio, and if you like the KDE desktop, don't pick a Gnome based distro and install KDE on top of it, choose a pure KDE distro. PCLinuxOS would be a good choice, even thought it's only 32bit at the moment. PCLinuxOS has a “Windows Like” control centre for easy of configuration.
Just think about how you need to configure Win7 post install by checking for, and installing, any additional drivers for things like chipsets, graphics cards, network cards, audio cards, printers etc. And then you'd need to configure them. It's not all automatic in Windows, or Linux. But I can tell you that PCLinuxOS, for example, detected all my hardware, including the Nvidia graphics card without the the need to install additional drivers. There are simple ways to check your hardware has been properly detected in Linux, just as you would check the “Device Manager” in Windows.
There are simple point and click tools (or the CLI) to configure your network connection(s) and Linux won't force artifical distinction between home networks and unidentifed network on you as Win7 would.
In the short term, a distro with a good forum and WIKI will give you a leg up. In the medium to long term, some understanding of the basic building blocks of Linux will help you make better use of the GUI and CLI tools, and resolve any problems.
If you don't want to keep installing distros on a (spare) hard drive, stick with LiveCDs. If your machine has plenty of RAM you can still install additional software, but it's not persistant. Otherwise, I would really recommend installing VirtualBox on one of your Windows machines and install Linux as a guest. Then you can begin to learn Linux at your leisure.
Comparing Windows and Linux is like comparing apples and oranges. It's easy to forget that the typical Linux distro is really a server OS and workstation in one, and there is more commonality between the various flavours of Linux than you might first think. Get to grips with one and the skills will transfer to an another. The concepts will be the same, even if the detail differs.
Hi Chris. :)
"Hard man to please" never...;)
The truth is I had one of those Linux noob days. Pressed loads of buttons I shouldn't have, didn't take enough valium and when puter said "no!", instead of engaging the brain, I just set about Lubuntu with bigger hammers.:doh:
Naturally enough Lubuntu broke lots. :rolleyes:
I got most of it working last night. :)
Need to bear in mind (I think you've got it but some others seem to have completely missed the point) that I'm approaching Linux to Windows as a long term Windoz sufferer and my goal at the start wasn't to learn Linux as such, it was to take advantage of the audio benefits that can be gained from a Linux installation.
Thing is, I'm far from Linux competent, I've only been at it for a few months.
Shame i didn't keep track of how long it took me to get a grip on Windoz. :eyebrows:
Anyway, yep, you can get Lubuntu to do most stuff but it isn't as point and clicky as Ubuntu 11.04 and I think the average Windoz user would find Lubuntu too Linuxish to be a comfortable starting point. ;)
I'll try harder to keep my dollies in the pram.
Hi Chris. :)
Need to bear in mind (I think you've got it but some others seem to have completely missed the point) that I'm approaching Linux to Windows as a long term Windoz sufferer and my goal at the start wasn't to learn Linux as such, it was to take advantage of the audio benefits that can be gained from a Linux installation.
The "take advantage of the audio benefits" is the all important factor here, yet it is easy to be distracted by other issues.
We are not trying to claim Linux is perfect, or doesn't require a bit of thought to use. But your guide offers a straightforward approach for the 1st time Linux user to get to those benefits. Once tasted, they might not want to go back to Windows and will explore further .
I'll try harder to keep my dollies in the pram.
That's OK, just suck a dummy with a liberal soaking of whiskey when you need to calm down.:)
Believe me Chris and John, I get the point its just that I need to find a configuration and distro that suits me. Coupled with that is that the desktop PC that is running as my music server is located out of the way and I only use it when playing music. Because my system is located in our bedroom, to use the keyboard and trackball for this PC I have to sit on the bed with the trackball to one side and the keyboard across my knees. Because of my back problems I can't sit in this position for long periods which precludes me from being able to sit and explore the OS for any length of time. As you mentioned John, one solution would be to obtain a Live CD, that way I could get to know Linux on my lappy whilst lying comfortably on the bed.
Regarding my friend, Chris. He has years of experience under his belt with Linux. He runs several websites and is a university educated circuit designer and programmer in countless programming languages. He won't allow any version of Windows anywhere near his computers and therefore is your typical Linux evangelist :D
We spent nearly six hours trying to get to grips with the issues we encountered that evening and my friend became increasingly frustrated after countless attempts to employ techniques that have worked on other Linux systems he has worked with. Normally this guy is as cool as a cucumber and this is the first time since I've known him (for some 26 years now) that I have ever seen him frustrated when working on a computer oriented problem. Incidentally Chris the three versions of Linux we installed had no problems picking up and connecting to my router.
For now I am going to stick to the system that works, and it works really well btw. I'll obtain a Live Linux CD from somewhere and have a play in my spare time to gain a working knowledge of how it all works. For example, I haven't a clue how to install software on Linux. It might seem easy to a seasoned Linux user but when one is used to the fuss free 'Install' dialogue box when using Windows, it is a PITA.
Thanks for trying to help guys but I think we've been beat by more than just a software issue here. It's entirely possible that there is something in my computer systems configuration that is throwing Linux off the scent. My friend will be popping over during the week to attempt to identify the source of the problem.
Dave.
I was going to write a bit but in essence it boils down to this.......
Why don't you just try following the guide. That's what its there for. :doh:
I just cant understand why someone would read the guide, think Oh arr, I know feck all about Linux so what I'll do is completely ignore the guide, get a copy of Linux Mint and a mate round, waste a week pissing about in the dark then go on the forum and write Linux is rubbish. :eyebrows:
Sry Dave, just doesn't make any sense to me. :mental:
I wrote something to the effect in my very first post....
There is no project point and click and every possibility.
of project crash and burn.....and, you wont learn Linux overnight.
To be blunt (now there's a surprise) I couldn't give a feck if people want to learn Linux or not; that really wasn't the point of the thread.
However, some people are interested in finding out if there is a differnce to be heard between Linux and Windows and the guide I spent hours writing hopefully gives people the chance to find out for themsleves.
Course, it don't work if you don't follow it.....simples really. ;)
I started with DOS way back when, then Win 3.1 and have hung with the various flavors of Windows from 95 to 98 to 2000 and XP. Along the way I've dabbled with Linux and even OS/2. I now dual boot on my machine with Windows 7 and Linux (currently Lubuntu).
They all have their relative strengths and weaknesses. However, frankly I think Win 7 is a bit of a liability when used to support PC - based audio. Win 7 is a very good general purpose OS, but it's a relative resource hog if used for audio. The value that Linux brings to the table is the ability to customize the OS to the needs of the user.
Getting Linux to output bit perfect audio is no different a challenge than it is in Windows. The vast user base for Windows gives rise to a host of potential solutions for bit perfect audio, but theses solutions are more costly and generally add overhead. Linux solutions for bit perfect output are far more elegant. However, given the smaller used base on consumer desktops, solutions are harder to find.
That's what makes the step by step walk though posted in this thread so valuable. Follow it, and you should get the results you need.
It might be a good idea if the guide part of this goes into the libary section so it easy for people to follow and find.
Sometime in May or June I be able to get a spare 2nd hand laptop and will give this a try
Dave,
Believe me Chris and John, I get the point its just that I need to find a configuration and distro that suits me. Coupled with that is that the desktop PC that is running as my music server is located out of the way and I only use it when playing music. Because my system is located in our bedroom, to use the keyboard and trackball for this PC I have to sit on the bed with the trackball to one side and the keyboard across my knees. Because of my back problems I can't sit in this position for long periods which precludes me from being able to sit and explore the OS for any length of time. As you mentioned John, one solution would be to obtain a Live CD, that way I could get to know Linux on my lappy whilst lying comfortably on the bed.
Sorry to hear about the back problem, as someone who has struggled with physical disability for these last nine years, you have my sympathy.
Regarding my friend, Chris. He has years of experience under his belt with Linux. He runs several websites and is a university educated circuit designer and programmer in countless programming languages. He won't allow any version of Windows anywhere near his computers and therefore is your typical Linux evangelist*
With a CV like that, installing Linux should have been a cake walk.
We spent nearly six hours trying to get to grips with the issues we encountered that evening and my friend became increasingly frustrated after countless attempts to employ techniques that have worked on other Linux systems he has worked with. Normally this guy is as cool as a cucumber and this is the first time since I've known him (for some 26 years now) that I have ever seen him frustrated when working on a computer oriented problem. Incidentally Chris the three versions of Linux we installed had no problems picking up and connecting to my router.
Connecting to your router is one thing, but what about an external IP address? Is this a wireless connection by any chance?
Yet if the network was up and there was no firewall block and the Internet was reachable and the contents of the /etc/apt/sources.list file and /etc/apt/sources.list.d directory had both been checked for errors, but the terminal command “apt-get update” failed, then possibly the Ubuntu servers you were trying to access were down. Something you could verify by trying to browse them directly. Otherwise, it's a mystery.
For now I am going to stick to the system that works, and it works really well btw. I'll obtain a Live Linux CD from somewhere and have a play in my spare time to gain a working knowledge of how it all works. For example, I haven't a clue how to install software on Linux. It might seem easy to a seasoned Linux user but when one is used to the fuss free 'Install' dialogue box when using Windows, it is a PITA.
Most Linux distros, big and small, have an ISO you can download and burn to CD(-RW)/DVD(-rw) and run as a LiveCD. Check at distrowatch. The alternative is to put it on a USB stick, or there are even ways to run an ISO from your hard drive. Yet another may try out Linux is to use VirtualBox on one of your other PC/Laptops.
Any decent bit of 3rd party Windows software will have a self extracting installer, an uninstaller and make a boat load of registry entries so you can keep track of what's on your system and have fun when you want to eradicate it. There is no regisrty in Linux, thank God. But there will be a crucial piece of “package management” software on the system with both a GUI front end and CLI version which will perform these, and other, functions. See John's guide.
On Ubuntu and its derivatives, Mint, and other Debian based distros the GUI front end is called “synaptic” and “apt” is CLI tool. Synaptic is also used by PCLinuxOS even though it's not debian based.
See here: http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/action.html and
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto
Thanks for trying to help guys but I think we've been beat by more than just a software issue here. It's entirely possible that there is something in my computer systems configuration that is throwing Linux off the scent. My friend will be popping over during the week to attempt to identify the source of the problem.
Well I hope you get to the botttom of this. I'd be interested to know the problem was. Hopefully, you'll give Linux another chance.
Low Latency Audio tweaks - part 1
This one's for the tweak freaks ...
Mike was good enough to give us feedback on his use of Lubuntu, so here's my take on low-latency. I've kept this as short as possible, but it does need some technical stuff.
Following Mike's lead, I installed a low-latency kernel that will run on Lubuntu 11.10 from here:
https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa
Follow the instructions to add this ppa to your repository (it's the same method as per adding deadbeef to Ubuntu). Install both linux-image-3.0.0-13-lowlatency and linux-headers-3.0.0-13-lowlatency. It installs along with the rtirq-init package.
On re-booting the system you should see an additional entry on the boot screen which allows you to choose this alternative kernel. This kernel is described as containing “a more aggressive configuration to reduce latency than the generic one”.
Three important kernel elements for low-latency audio work are: scheduler preemption; interrupt timer frequency and high resolution timer (HPET). The low-latency kernel config settings for these can be seen by searching the config file for the strings "PREEMPT" and "HZ" and "HIGH_RES" using:
egrep -i "PREEMPT|HZ|HIGH_RES" /boot/config-3.0.0-13-lowlatency
CONFIG_TREE_PREEMPT_RCU=y
CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU=y
CONFIG_PREEMPT_NOTIFIERS=y
# CONFIG_NO_HZ is not set
CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y
# CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set
# CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY is not set
CONFIG_PREEMPT=y
# CONFIG_HZ_100 is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_250 is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_300 is not set
CONFIG_HZ_1000=y
CONFIG_HZ=1000
CONFIG_MACHZ_WDT=m
# CONFIG_PREEMPT_TRACER is not set
Compare this to the generic kernel, whose settings are more conservative.
# CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU is not set
CONFIG_RCU_FAST_NO_HZ=y
CONFIG_PREEMPT_NOTIFIERS=y
CONFIG_NO_HZ=y
CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y
# CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set
CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y
# CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_100 is not set
CONFIG_HZ_250=y
# CONFIG_HZ_300 is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_1000 is not set
CONFIG_HZ=250
CONFIG_MACHZ_WDT=m
The low-latency kernel also introduces threaded IRQs, and the rtirq-init packages attempts to "identify the audio devices present on the machine and raises the priority of the threads that handle the IRQs of such devices".
My machine has a GT210 nvidia graphics card which provides sound over HDMI, on/board HDA sound with SPDIF out, and an attached USB DAC.
The interrupts can be shown by:
cat /proc/interrutps
CPU0 CPU1 CPU2 CPU3
0: 446 4845 480 665034 IO-APIC-edge timer
1: 360 0 0 29 IO-APIC-edge i8042
4: 0 0 0 2 IO-APIC-edge
6: 0 0 0 3 IO-APIC-edge floppy
7: 1 0 0 0 IO-APIC-edge
8: 0 0 0 1 IO-APIC-edge rtc0
9: 0 0 0 0 IO-APIC-fasteoi acpi
14: 9020 334 1 18961 IO-APIC-edge pata_atiixp
15: 0 0 0 0 IO-APIC-edge pata_atiixp
16: 74452 43 1 789 IO-APIC-fasteoi ohci_hcd:usb3, ohci_hcd:usb4, snd_hda_intel
17: 0 0 0 4 IO-APIC-fasteoi ehci_hcd:usb1
18: 187 39259 0 84 IO-APIC-fasteoi ohci_hcd:usb5, ohci_hcd:usb6, ohci_hcd:usb7, nvidia
19: 0 0 0 232 IO-APIC-fasteoi ehci_hcd:usb2, snd_hda_intel
20: 41521 2 0 164 IO-APIC-fasteoi eth1
22: 12633 59 0 7816 IO-APIC-fasteoi ahci
42: 0 0 0 8 PCI-MSI-edge eth0
NMI: 0 0 0 0 Non-maskable interrupts
LOC: 409014 377731 280199 59986 Local timer interrupts
SPU: 0 0 0 0 Spurious interrupts
PMI: 0 0 0 0 Performance monitoring interrupts
IWI: 0 0 0 0 IRQ work interrupts
RES: 395738 338658 179270 98237 Rescheduling interrupts
CAL: 4775 8912 10370 9768 Function call interrupts
TLB: 11111 13822 8308 6207 TLB shootdowns
TRM: 0 0 0 0 Thermal event interrupts
THR: 0 0 0 0 Threshold APIC interrupts
MCE: 0 0 0 0 Machine check exceptions
MCP: 9 9 9 9 Machine check polls
ERR: 1
MIS: 0
This is far from ideal as the onboard sound and some of the USB ports share the same interrupt, irq16. You really want your sound device on its own interrupt.
But it is typical of a m/board where the main chipsets, an AMD880G+SB710 in my case, provide multiple hardware functions. There are ways to unbind the USB ports from an interrupt, but checking your USB devices with “lsusb” will show that this is often impractical.
lsusb
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 006 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 007 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 003 Device 002: ID 04b3:310c IBM Corp. Wheel Mouse
Bus 003 Device 003: ID 0fe6:811e Kontron (Industrial Computer Source / ICS Advent) Parallel Adapter
Bus 004 Device 002: ID 08bb:2902 Texas Instruments Japan PCM2902 Audio Codec
In my case I'd loose both my mouse and printer connection.
Fortunately, rtirq-init improves the situation by raising the priority of the onboard sound above USB, as shown by :
/etc/init.d/rtirq status
PID CLS RTPRIO NI PRI %CPU STAT COMMAND
81 FF 90 - 130 0.0 S irq/8-rtc0
1678 FF 84 - 124 0.0 S irq/19-snd_hda_
1594 FF 82 - 122 0.0 S irq/16-snd_hda_
73 FF 80 - 120 0.0 S irq/17-ehci_hcd
75 FF 80 - 120 0.0 S irq/16-ohci_hcd
74 FF 79 - 119 0.0 S irq/19-ehci_hcd
76 FF 79 - 119 0.0 S irq/16-ohci_hcd
77 FF 79 - 119 0.0 S irq/18-ohci_hcd
78 FF 78 - 118 0.0 S irq/18-ohci_hcd
79 FF 77 - 117 0.0 S irq/18-ohci_hcd
80 FF 75 - 115 0.0 S irq/1-i8042
40 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/9-acpi
61 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/22-ahci
200 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/6-floppy
240 FF 50 - 90 0.2 S irq/14-pata_ati
241 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/15-pata_ati
318 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/18-nouveau
1686 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/42-eth0
1740 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/20-eth1
3 FF 1 - 41 0.0 S ksoftirqd/0
16 FF 1 - 41 0.1 S ksoftirqd/1
23 FF 1 - 41 0.1 S ksoftirqd/2
29 FF 1 - 41 0.1 S ksoftirqd/3
This confirmed by a relevant process list:
ps -eLo rtprio,cls,pid,pri,nice,cmd | grep "FF" | sort -r
- TS 4326 19 0 grep --color=auto FF
99 FF 7 139 - [migration/1]
99 FF 6 139 - [migration/0]
99 FF 14 139 - [migration/3]
99 FF 11 139 - [migration/2]
90 FF 54 130 - [irq/8-rtc0]
85 FF 1728 125 - [irq/19-hda_inte]
84 FF 1695 124 - [irq/16-hda_inte]
80 FF 46 120 - [irq/16-ohci_hcd]
80 FF 44 120 - [irq/17-ehci_hcd]
79 FF 50 119 - [irq/18-ohci_hcd]
79 FF 47 119 - [irq/16-ohci_hcd]
79 FF 45 119 - [irq/19-ehci_hcd]
78 FF 51 118 - [irq/18-ohci_hcd]
77 FF 52 117 - [irq/18-ohci_hcd]
75 FF 53 115 - [irq/1-i8042]
50 FF 261 90 - [irq/18-nouveau]
50 FF 25 90 - [irq/9-acpi]
50 FF 247 90 - [irq/6-floppy]
50 FF 222 90 - [irq/15-pata_ati]
50 FF 220 90 - [irq/14-pata_ati]
50 FF 188 90 - [irq/22-ahci]
50 FF 1753 90 - [irq/20-eth1]
50 FF 1746 90 - [irq/42-eth0]
(While the "top" program is installed on most systems, it's a good idea to install the interactive process viewer "htop" to observe system process behaviour. You can display process threads with the toggle keys H and K, set process affinity ad change the priority of running processes. Type h for help once "htop" is running.)
It's possible to fine tune some the rtirq-int settings using this file /etc/default/rtirq. I'll leave that to the reader.
So to summarise, the low-latency kernel has settings that are helpful for low-latency audio and works in conjuction with rtirq-init script to raise the interrupt thread priority of your sound devices.
In addition, you can raise the priority of your audio playing software and set process affinity using "htop", or other Linux tools.
Does it sound any better than a standard setup? Only you can answer that question, try it and hear for yourself, the effort involved is minimal.
A good source of info about this is:
http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php?id=system_configuration
Conventional wisdom says while it is important for music production, low-latency is irrelevant to audio playback. Only your ears can determine the truth of this.
Part 2 is comng soon and will give you a kick start to using a realtime kernel with jack ....
That lot looks interesting Chris.
I'm half tempted to see what from the above works with Ubuntu 11.04.
I've got a bit more to type up for 11.04 and then I reckon I'll be moving on to Puppy Linux/mpd and seeing if I can lever DeaDbeef instead of mpc into it. :eyebrows:
Prolly crash lots. :eek::D
@Chris, I would like to ask if you could give more user friendly instructions.
For example;
Follow the instructions to add this ppa to your repository (it's the same method as per adding deadbeef to Ubuntu). Install both linux-image-3.0.0-13-lowlatency and linux-headers-3.0.0-13-lowlatency. It installs along with the rtirq-init package.
If you go to the relevant page how to install the PPA isn't really explained well imo.
More often than not such sites provide links to tar. files and these have to be unpacked and placed in the appropriate directories; fine for the experienced Linux user but for the beginner.....
I'm trying very hard not to sound critical but instruction like type this into your terminal;
xxxxxcccccc
and then go to......etc
are a bit more likely to get beginners to give it a try.
I look at what you've written above and I'm confuzzeled before I've even gone to the linked sites.
I very tentatively suggest that the average Windows user is going to look at that lot and say Feck That!
Hi John,
The same ideas should apply to Ubuntu 11.04 (natty), just pick the 3.0.0-13.21ppa1~natty1 kernel etc. from that ppa.
Not had a chance to look at the puppy thing myself, so can't comment on that one. If it works, does that mean you'll be as happy as dog with two di...?
Point taken about my low-latency post, you were very polite John, you could have said it was sh*te. I agree it was possibly not my best effort. I'l give it another shot when I feel up to it. Maybe I should start with a comparison with ASIO, Jplay and what we'd like in Windows, but cannot get .. realtime behaviour.
I've got a bit more to type up for 11.04 and then I reckon I'll be moving on to Puppy Linux/mpd and seeing if I can lever DeaDbeef instead of mpc into it. :eyebrows:
Funny that you should mention Puppy Linux. For kicks, I downloaded and test drove mpdPup last week. Its not going to work for me, but I'd be interested to hear if it works for you.
Just an FYI - mpdPuppy didn't work for me, because it looks like its set up to be connected via network cable to the music library. My music library resides on an external USB drive. mpdPuppy has an option in the install routine to set up the library on a USB device, but that option appears to be in beta test mode. I tried it, but no joy.
That said, if my system was networked, mpdPuppy would be a no-brainer. It really does appear to go the extra mile to make mpd set up possible for the "rest of us" who are not as technically astute. :scratch:
Also, per Chris's notes above, having the USB hard drive and the USB sound card on the same interrupt is not ideal. I've been shopping for a used laptop with a firewire input, and I hope to have that within the next couple months. However, Linux is still so efficient at handing input / output functions, that I'm not suffering any ill effects yet (like I did in Windows :( ).
Hi Mike.
I think Idolise is aware of the local storage problems and is working on it.
Apparently it is possible to direct mpd to use directly attached USB storage but perhaps the installation Wizard still needs attention.
Part of the problem is somewhere down the line the people who know their stuff with regard to Linux and audio all seem to have decided that streaming from sever to client is cool and headed off down this path; voyage/mpd being the best known example.
Eventually I believe some people will come to accept that maybe having what is often 3 (server, client and remote) computers on the go to play audio may not be the most cost effective or convenient solution nor imo does this arrangement necessarily sound better than a single more powerful computer acting as server and client with in my case, a screen you can actually read.:)
Been stuffed by the gadget generation and Linux geekery. ;)
I think I've got enough valium left to have a go at Puppy Linux and mpd. If I cant sort that out I'll probably have another go with Lubuntu.
DeaDBeef.
It’s often the visual things when it comes to music players that influence what people prefer to use.
Command Line Players ( music players that provide something like a DOS prompt to enter track selection and other instructions) may provide a lightweight installation and use minimum system resources, but I like to have my music database on display in an easy to view and navigate style, showing album art and allowing easy access to any further information I may have collected and stored in the containing folder.
This imo is where players like foobar excel, but even configuring foobar can cause headaches.
This is a basic guide to making DeaDBeef and Ubuntu usable and decent looking (should work for most Ubuntu based distributions. Tested on 11.04, 10.10 and 10.04)
I’ve chosen the method I find works best for me. If you are clueless at the start, much like me ;) then once you’ve tried this setup alternatives should be reasonably straightforward.
I use mains powered USB or SATA external drives to store my music.
Each album is in its own folder and this single folder also contains front and back covers and any other information either in text documents or jpg format.
Album cover fronts are all titled Folder.jpg; back, Back.jpg.
Some players are fussy about jpg size, so the maximum size I use is 800 x 800 pixels.
There are a number of applications for getting album art available on the Internet but if all else fails finding an image then right clicking your mouse and selecting “save image as” to your downloads folder and then dragging and dropping it into the appropriate album folder after resizing and converting to jpg with a graphics application, if necessary, works.
One of the nice things about Ubuntu is it automounts (displays the drive icon on your desktop, think Windows shortcut) external drives so you don’t have to hunt about for how to display the drive.
So just double click on the drive icon (Elements in the pic) and the contents will be displayed.
At the top of the drive window click on EDIT>PREFERENCES and the file management window will open.
The first tab is VIEWS.
Set View New Folders to LIST VIEW
Set Arrange Items to BY NAME
Next tab is BEHAVIOUR
Set SINGLE CLICK TO OPEN ITEMS
Go to the List Columns tab next.
Uncheck everything except NAME.
Close File Management Preferences.
You should now have a window showing all the folders on your drive organised by name with an arrow by the side of each folder. If you click on the arrow the contents of the folder are displayed.
If you carefully hover your mouse over the corners of the window you can now drag the edge of the window to the edge of your desktop. Mine is shaped to show a single folder column.
Another nice thing about Ubuntu is it remembers your settings so when you next open this drive it should be the way you left it.
You can restore the default settings under VIEW and make changes to which navigation bars are displayed.
Next open DeaDBeef, APPLICATIONS>SOUND & VIDEO.
By dragging the edges of the DeaDBeef window you can adjust it to look like the pics in the Day with DeaDbeef and Ubuntu post above.
Empty the Default Playlist Tab (assuming you have already loaded some music into it) by right clicking on the tracks and choosing Remove or alternatively, if you’ve got loads of individual tracks, right clicking on the tab bar (the bit at the top of the tab where it says Default or Playlist) and then choose Remove Playlist so you are left with just the Default Playlist tab with no contents.
Now Right click on the horizontl bar just below the Default tab itself (where Track Title Duration etc is displayed) and select Add Column.
A new Window will open and for Title type Album Art.
Choose Album Art in the Type selection box.
Ignore Format
And in my case I chose Left for Alignment.
Click Okay and close.
Your new Album Art column will hopefully appear on the far left of the main DeaDBeef window.
Now click ON the title “Album Art” and in Group By, choose Artist/Date/Album and close.
If you now drag a complete folder containing your music tracks and album art from the displayed drive on the left to the main area below the tabs and information bars and drop it there DeaDBeef will copy the music files and album art into the playlist.
If your album art doesn’t show in the column it is likely that the album art isn’t in the correct format in the folder.
You can drag and drop the entire contents of a drive into DeaDBeef and it will load a considerable library reasonably quickly. However. scrolling through 3000 albums (about max capacity fro a 1 TB drive) is very slow, while scrolling through your mounted hard drive is considerably faster. As an example in the configuration I’ve suggested I can view 25 folders per page while if loaded into DeaDBeef I’m lucky to view two albums per page.
The other advantage to dragging complete folders as required rather than a full library load is above the track listing is the folder title and by right clicking on this title you can remove complete albums rather than doing it track by track.
Try for yourself.
You need to have at least one track showing in DeaDBeef for this bit.
Right click on an individual track listing in DeaDBeef and a new menu opens showing Properties at the bottom of the menu.
Click on properties and you get another window which not only shows the Meta Data of that track but if you click on the properties tab of that window a list of Key Shortcuts is displayed.
You can use any of these as column headers in the main DeaDBeef window provided you format them correctly.
For example, say I wanted to show SAMPLERATE as a column alongside Album art or Duration...
Make a new column as you did for album art, enter your column title, but in TYPE, you choose Custom.
In the FORMAT choice you need to enter Samplerate in this example in this format
%@:SAMPLERATE@ format %@:xxxxx@
This is explained in the “help” box but it’s a bit confusing.
What is and what isn’t supported is also explained but the above should get you started.
Once the steps are completed you should have a Samplerate column in the main window.
All the columns in DeaDBeef can be dragged to size by hovering your mouse over the separation bars in the columns title bar. A bit of dragging about and you can have larger album images for example.
DeaDBeef remembers its state on closing so you only need to do this once.
All the colour changes are done through EDIT>PREFERENCES>COLOUR.
DeaDBeef seems fairly stable so experimenting isn’t likely to do any more than damage your eyes if you pick something a bit garish.
The Status Bar can be removed through VIEW and the equaliser can be added here.
I found configuring DeaDBeef a lot easier than foobar2000 and the ability to mount your drive next to the player and drag and drop files makes it my favourite player for ease of setup and practicality so far.
John -
More great info on Deadbeef. For those who missed it, or don't want to scroll back and find it, here's John's other detailed post on Deadbeef:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=286629&postcount=70
Between these two posts, you should have all the set up info you need to get your kit rocking in style and in Hi Res.
I'd like to add some info on setting up Audacious. Audacious is a music player quite similar to Deadbeef, and its also the default player in Lubuntu. I've run Deadbeef and Audacious side by side, any while both sound great, Audacious get a slight edge in my system for overall sound quality - at least as my ear likes to hear it. As with all things PC and Audio related, your mileage may vary.
This was actually put together by the manufacturer of my DAC. Its a great write up complete with pics.
http://www.antelopeaudio.com/SUPPORT/Manuals/Linux%20Ubuntu%20OS%20&%20Zodiac.pdf
With Audacious, I've found that I need to increase the buffer size for the best results. I've doubled it from the default 500 as shown in the guide, to 1000.
The guide also covers Deadbeef set up, but I like John's write ups better! :)
Thank you for your kind comments Mike. :)
Audacious is another excellent lightweight player.
I'm about done with with Ubuntu/DeaDBeef for the time being. The guy who sorted Voyage/mpd on my server is back from his travels and is going to set up Puppy Linux/mpd/mpc and DeaDBeef on my latest hardware configuration while I watch and hopefully learn.
While Voyage/mpd makes an excellent combination, it does impose some limitations on the hardware used. I'm hoping pup and mpd will give greater scope and now I'm a bit more confident with Linux in general, allow me to tinker with the probably mistaken belief I can repair what I break :eyebrows:;)
The Linux Audio web site is a great resource as is their user mailing list:
http://lau.linuxaudio.org/
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
It's been drawn to my attention that installing DeaDBeef through the CLI may no longer be possible due to the package not being available.
You can install by the method outlined below. Its self explanatory once you have Ubuntu installed.
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/deadbeef/index.php?title=Installing:Ubuntu
Lubuntu and DeaDBeef +/- Pulse
I’m probably over critical and just not geeky enough but if someone says they’ve made an operating system and promote it as an all round lightweight alternative to one of the more mainstream offerings, I expect certain features to work out of the box.
I wont list my expectations, but if you read on some will become apparent.
I chose Lubuntu because the some of the “audiophile” member of the Linux community have leveled rather a lot of criticism at Pulse (A Linux audio management layer) and Lubuntu doesn’t come with Pulse as a standard installation.
Apparently Pulse introduces an unacceptable degree of latency into the audio replay chain according to its critics. Apart from this I haven’t been able to find any coherent explanation as to what other problems Pulse may, or may not, introduce to audio playback.
Personally I’m not overly concerned about a few ms latency in audio replay; it all gets buffered somewhere and as long as the buffers are fed at a rate that ensures they don’t run out that would seem to be good enough. For recording and playback the problems are different and latency is most definitely an issue.
So, I got Lubuntu 11.04.
Installation went okay and once installed Update Manager asked if I would like to install the updates. Yep, updates are good; I’ll have those and clicked the appropriate boxes. Shame they didn’t mention they had forgotten to include half the operating system in the initial issue, but I expect they found out stuff didn’t work properly and fixed it. :D
Would I like to Upgrade to the most recent distribution was the next option.
Cor, thinks I, that sound good, Well you would wouldn’t you coming from Windows. You never know, they might have fixed more stuff. :rolleyes:
So, the new distribution downloaded and started to install. Just over half way through this a notice pops up saying the installation couldn’t proceed unless I found two processes and stopped them running. What’s more, if I didn’t do this my operating system would probably not work any more.:eek:
No wait, it gets better…then my mouse locks up and not only cant I exit anything, I cant even madly click stuff in the hope of accidentally finding these two services. :doh:
May just a well have asked me if I wanted to download this virus; the end result would be the same. :steam:
It’s rather like being asked mid Windows setup to run Regedit and find a service and then alter its dword value….and no you can’t use your mouse.:mental:
This is such a staggeringly stupid cockup it wasn’t surprising that things didn’t get much better.
When I did eventually get Lubuntu looking like it may live, I got DeaDBeef through the method in the link above and set out to get the net stuff working, my external drive easily accessible and sound coming out of my speakers.
You have to either mount your external drive yourself, or use the File Manager to display it.
Okay, spose I can cope, dragged the external drive to where I wanted it, knocked it into the shape I wanted with the type of display I wanted and closed it. When I reopened it charged into the corner of my screen and reverted to default. Hmmm. :scratch:
No worries, lets just get some tunes going. DeaDBeef, bless it, :) stayed where I put it and happily played any file I could find to drag into it through my Dac and out of my speakers.
On to Utube then. Got all the Flash Player stuff, threw that stupid Chrome browser off and set off to the interwebz with Firefox.
What the feck is that horrid noise! Oh, the onboard sound. :doh:
Check ALSA mixer then, see if I can direct the sound through that. Nope.
Maybe I need some gstreamer bits….hmm, I wonder which ones.
I could go on for hours, Got interwebz sound then a similar struggle with Skype and then line in and headphones, in fact everything that Windows and funnily enough Ubuntu can do out of the box (courtesy of Pulse) Lubuntu turned into a major issue.
What’s even more annoying is I couldn’t hear any difference between DeaDBeef bypassing Pulse on Ubuntu and DeaDBeef without Pulse on Lubuntu.:rolleyes:
There is a need for a lightweight Ubuntu variant in the group for those of us with laptops of less than average performance but it needs to work.
There is quite a lot of enthusiasm and support for Lubuntu but its a bit like some of the seemingly unconditional support here on AoS for the small specialist Hi Fi manufacturer; it’s pointless if a larger commercial company can offer the same or better performance for the same or less money.
While Lubuntu is faster on my laptop than Ubuntu it isn’t fast enough or friendly enough to make it a worthwhile option for a general use operating system and does too much to make it suitable for a dedicated music server.
John -
Sorry you had such a rough way to go with Lubuntu. Sometimes some element of a particular Linux distro will just stubbornly refuse to play nice with a particular piece of hardware or combination of hardware. Who knows if that s the issue or not, but I wish it had worked out for you.
Here at la Casa de Whell I have an Acer laptop running Lubuntu and an HP laptop running Ubuntu. So far, so good. But as you observed, my ear is having a tough time noting any definitive differences in audio playback on the two machines. We'll have to see what time and more listening will bring.
ursus262
09-03-2012, 10:20
There really is nothing wrong with Pulse Audio in my opinion. For audio playback it is perfectly acceptable. I've been using Ubuntu Linux for six years without any problems (although I've recently migrated to Mac).
One point of note, that users may find useful, is the ability to stream using UPnP/DNLA in Rhythmbox and this works very well indeed.
There really is nothing wrong with Pulse Audio in my opinion. For audio playback it is perfectly acceptable. I've been using Ubuntu Linux for six years without any problems (although I've recently migrated to Mac).
One point of note, that users may find useful, is the ability to stream using UPnP/DNLA in Rhythmbox and this works very well indeed.
Pulse Audio is fine, unless you're trying to play high resolution files in their native resolution. Pulse Audio will take a 24bit/96khz high resolution audio file - file formats which are becoming increasingly popular - and down-samples them to 16bit/44.1khz. Not what you want in a high resolution audio playback system.
If you're simply playing CD's or MP3's, Pulse Audio is just fine.
Wotcha Mike :)
Worth mentioning that some players bypass Pulse. It is very handy for doing what it was built for and that's integrating the various codecs needed for net streaming, Skype etc.
It's a lot better behaved than it used to be as well.
Yep, a shame about Lubuntu. I dare say for people who know a bit about Linux it can be made to do all the general purpose audio stuff.
I've gone from the novice view though and as you know from the other place, levering stuff in and out is a major headache it seems.
It just isn't user friendly enough for a general purpose OS imo. Audio from file is fine and very straightforward but I reckon if that is all you want from an OS Puppy or Voyage, if you're careful about the hardware is more optimal solution, particlarly if you've gone for flash card installation.
Ooops wrong thread. :doh:
It seems despite earlier pessimism DeadBeeF is alive and undergoing further development. :)
http://deadbeef.sourceforge.net/
I’ve had some time to play recently primarily due to the fact it’s just too hot to work outside. :doh::D
I’ve been a fan of Puppy Linux for a while having had very good results with MPDPup
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=662902
However, MPDPup is still a bit complex and I’ve had issues trying to run it on a large enough range of hardware to make it an easy Linux tryout for many users who are not particularly comfortable with messing about with their computers.
This, http://puppylinux.org/main/Long-Term-Supported%20Puppy.htm
however, is different.
There are as you can see various versions available, I’ve chosen Puppy Linux Precise because it’s the most recent long term supported offering. If you plan to use a particularly ancient machine then the Retro version may be the most suitable. I’ve run the Standard version with 128MB of RAM without problems.
So, click on the download link for either Standard or Retro and download the ISO image.
You’ll need a burning program capable of burning an ISO image to disc.
Next, download the DeadBeef 0.5.6 Precise.pet here.
http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=82026&sid=ddfef152958924cb91e2b0486167dc78
For the complete novice the above is the most familiar and easiest option.
For those who are confident about burning an ISO image straight to a USB flash drive or similar then this hasn’t failed me yet and the instructions are easy to follow.
http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
Don’t be put off because the unetbootin looks complicated of the page; when you go to use it, it really is very straightforward and it will burn the Puppy Linux ISO image you’ve downloaded straight to a USB flash drive.
Direct unetbootin to where you previously downloaded the Puppy Linux Precise image to and follow the instructions. Don’t let unetbootin download Deadbeef for you; the Deadbeef issue it links to is out of date.
Make sure there is a CD RW or USB flah drive present before you start.
By either of the methods above, burn the ISO image to CD, or USB flash drive.
Next you need to enter BIOS setup for your computer and make your CD drive or USB flash drive the first boot option. For many machines you need to have the USB drive plugged in before you start the computer and change the boot settings in BIOS.
When the computer reboots after the BIOS setting change, Puppy Linux will start up.
All you need to do to install DeadBeef is double click on the .PET file you downloaded and the rest is done automatically.
How to set up DeadBeef I’ve written up, erm, somewhere here on AOS (jest a sec or two…)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?15064-Windows-to-Linux-beginer-tips&highlight=Deadbeef
Sooo, what’s the big deal? The big deal is it runs from RAM! To make this absolutely clear, Puppy Precise does not write, or store anything on your hard drive. In fact, you don’t even need a hard drive to run it!
I’m using one of these atm, but any medium your BIOS can read at boot will do.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-SDCZ33-008G-B35-Cruzer-Flash-Drive/dp/B005FYNSUA/ref=sr_1_37?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1377862421&sr=1-37&keywords=flash+drive+8gb
I’m not going to mention how fast it is, or that the CPU usage is miniscule, or the obvious advantages this OS has for system crashes, or even that it’s FREE!
Check it out. You’ve got nothing to lose except a large Microsoft license fee and the price of the all the apps/time required to stop windows doing stuff that has nothing to do with making music.
hope the new life is working well for you John
bobbasrah
30-08-2013, 14:51
hope the new life is working well for you John
Ditto, obviously a touch warmer....
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