New cartridge

[alex_san78]

Hi all!

I'm looking for a new cartridge for my technics 1200 mk2 with Jelco 750D arm.
Here are the once I'm looking at:
MM - Ortofon 2m black
MM - Nagaoka MP 500
MC - Ortofon MC 30 Super II
MC - Ortofon MC30W Low Output cartridge
MC - Benz Micro MC ACE SL Cartridge Low Output
MC- Audio Technica AT-33PTG/II Dual Moving Coil Cartridge
MC- Audio Technica AT-33ev
MC - ZYX R100 Fuji S 5N silver Wired Coil Cartridge (possible option)
MC - Dynavector 20XL Low Output Cartridge
If you have any feedback on one of them I'll be pleased to see it here. Any other suggestions and ideas are welcome. Budget - aroud 1000$.

[DSJR]

Yep, you can use any of them although I'm not sure about the Nagaoka's compliance..

My gut feelings won't be yours, but I'm sortof leaning towards suggesting the Benz and Zyx myself, since I believe they have some drama as well as a bit of verve to them. I'm a long standing fan of the AT's, but I know some here are justified in their view that the sound is a little emaciated in terms of bass power. The 750 may redress this though...

My gut feelings are re-enforced by your choice of equipment, as I suspect the Quad amps will have enough refinement and warmth of their own - not criticising in the slightest, just trying to narrow your huge choice down a bit..

[alex_san78]

Yep, you can use any of them although I'm not sure about the Nagaoka's compliance..

My gut feelings won't be yours, but I'm sortof leaning towards suggesting the Benz and Zyx myself, since I believe they have some drama as well as a bit of verve to them. I'm a long standing fan of the AT's, but I know some here are justified in their view that the sound is a little emaciated in terms of bass power. The 750 may redress this though...

My gut feelings are re-enforced by your choice of equipment, as I suspect the Quad amps will have enough refinement and warmth of their own - not criticising in the slightest, just trying to narrow your huge choice down a bit..

Hi Dave!
Thank you for your answer. I do consider ZYX seriously. Taking in consideration all those positive reviews and feedbacks about this cartridge. The price is quite high, but I believe that it worth every penny spent on it. The only question is how it will work with my Jelco arm. The cartridge weight is only 5 grams. So I believe it will require heavy headshell.

Or I can get for ZYX price 2 cartridges: Ortofon 2m black and Benz-Micro Ace SL... :scratch:

[DSJR]

The Ortofon will allow easy stylus replacement if you use it a lot and the performance should be excellent, not needing the faff and expense of a top quality SUT or head amp. Depends on your phono stage I think and with a typical top end moving coil type, this could get VERY expensive.

Don't worry about the Jelco. It won't be an issue with these I think.

[Spectral Morn]

The Benz works well in the Jelco arm as long as the head-shell is a Sumiko or better than the Technics one.


Regards D S D L

[jostber]

The Ortofon 2M Bronze is also a great alternative.

[wiicrackpot]

Another nod to the Benz, i've had outstanding sound from mine for a number of years, changed TT's and arm's but the Benz stayed.

wii.

[RobbieGong]

The Ortofon will allow easy stylus replacement if you use it a lot and the performance should be excellent, not needing the faff and expense of a top quality SUT or head amp. Depends on your phono stage I think and with a typical top end moving coil type, this could get VERY expensive.

Don't worry about the Jelco. It won't be an issue with these I think.

I agree with Dave R. I've never experienced an moving coil before but know that they are said to be 'best' or 'better' on the other side of the coin I've read loads re: loading, phono stage and all other factors to be considered etc etc. I like an easy life where results can also be realised hence I paid out for the 2M Black. The fact I can and will buy a replacement stylus is a big bonus. It's performance brings a smile to my face big time (I've even got the vinyl on in the background as I type - addictive !) It's been said that the 2M black is like an mc whatever that is and that it is as good as a lot of them ie: you have to spend a fair bit on an mc to definately top it. The Black just gets on with the business of playing whats on the record and boy does it dig deep and extract a heck of a lot of detail due to it's sophisticated nude Shibata stylus, as shared by ti's bigger brother mc the revered Ortofon Jubilee. The Blacks presentation displays chacteristics of a sound leaning more on the full side (It has a fairly high output), rich, clear with a lovely transparency and air around instruments also great seperation of parts. Another of it's trump cards is the way instruments each have their 'real' sound and texture, horns, piano, percussion all sound very real and 3D rather than flat, cymbals / hi hats shimmer - It's a pleasure to hear when the particular part(s) do there thing. Finally, I've said it before and I'll say it again, The Shibata is a pretty sophisticated stylus and as with the Jubillee it is very sensitive to vta. Get it wrong and she wont sing quite as you'd expect. Take time and get it right and you'll know because the music will display the above characteristics and you'll have a big smile on your face :D hence I proclaim :eyebrows: that the stock arm fly on the wheel vta is a gem of convenience, turn ever so slowly and carefully while playing a tune and eventually BINGO !! you'll here when the music just sounds right with this cart, may take patience but when it does it is so worth it with this one. Sorry to waffle but as you can tell I kinda like / love my 2M Black - All the best whatever you decide (The Benz sounds like a good cart too) :)

[DSJR]

Lower compliance cartridges can often appear to have more "heft" and "wallop" all over, and in past years, a medium quality MC would be far better than almost all MM types out there. Things have changed a bit now though, but IMO to get a half decent MC to really sing, you need to up the ante on step-ups of whatever persuasion floats your boat..

[RobbieGong]

Lower compliance cartridges can often appear to have more "heft" and "wallop" all over, and in past years, a medium quality MC would be far better than almost all MM types out there. Things have changed a bit now though, but IMO to get a half decent MC to really sing, you need to up the ante on step-ups of whatever persuasion floats your boat..

I hear you Dave. Apart from a bit of time n care with vta which really is a part of set up anyway, I find the 2M Black a real hassle free, quality performer. I have a top of the range Technics intergrated amp and simply switch the phono selector to mm with no issues whatsoever - just how I like it ;)

[Tarzan]

Plus MMs are seriously musical!:cool:

[wiicrackpot]

Och..my Lp Ebony,Tim de P TX4 SUT do that in spades.:cool:

[Stacker45]

I have a 2M Black on a Technics SL-1200 and i like it very much,but if i had to do it all over again,i'm not suyre i would pay that much for a cartridge,i recently bought an Audio-Technica AT 95e to put on my Yamaha YP-B2 and was very impressed with sound quality this budget cartridge makes,wich makes me wonder about how the 440 mla must sound like.

[audio39]

Of the cartridges you list I have had the pleasure of having 4 of them in my system at one time or another...they are - Ortofon 2M Black, Ortofon MC30 Super II, Audio Technica AT33EV, Audio Technica AT33PTG II.

The 2M Black is easy to recommend, it does everything well and doesn't do anything really wrong.

The MC30 II is one of my all-time favourite carts, but it's a love/hate kind of cart. Some find it leans a bit too hard on the treble side, more likely that it's very fussy regarding the phonostage ahead of it.

The AT carts...the new AT33PTG II is an excellent cart that I will highly recommend. Frequency extremes are excellent, it tracks like a champ, vocals are rendered realistically, and separation is fantastic.

I'm presently running the Denon DL-103SA cart, but I expect soon the AT33PTG II will find it's way onto my tonearm for a 500 to 600 hour run.

[alex_san78]

Thank you guys for your replies!
It is still hard decision for me... :) :scratch:
Will stop at the moment on Benz-Micro and will see the result.
I'll buy the cart after my new upgrades will come to me (new bearing and new achromat). Hope in a few weeks I will be able to share my impressions with you guys.

[MartinT]

I can vouch for the AT33PTG and Dynavector DV20X2L, both of which are very good cartridges but which have a different balance from each other. The AT is very slightly bright while the DV is very slightly dark. Caveat: don't even think about a low output MC unless you're going to use a step-up transformer of at least CineMag quality.

[alex_san78]

I can vouch for the AT33PTG and Dynavector DV20X2L, both of which are very good cartridges but which have a different balance from each other. The AT is very slightly bright while the DV is very slightly dark. Caveat: don't even think about a low output MC unless you're going to use a step-up transformer of at least CineMag quality.

Hi Martin,
You believe that my phono amp (Quad QC24P) will not manage to work with a low output cartridge?

[MartinT]

It's not a question of not working. It's my experience that MCs need a transformer to work best - they sound much better this way than connected direct into an MC phono stage.

[Reid Malenfant]

Probably the lower noise floor :) It's incredibly difficult to design an active gain stage for moving coils which actually has a low enough noise floor, they are always more noisy than a moving magnet stage.

So I can see why Martin goes the transformer route :eyebrows:

[MartinT]

Lower noise floor is one aspect; the other is the greater dynamics afforded by the sheer efficient energy conversion of a transformer. Seriously - active inputs sound flat by comparison.

[alex_san78]

It's not a question of not working. It's my experience that MCs need a transformer to work best - they sound much better this way than connected direct into an MC phono stage.

Thanks Martin.
Got it. Any advice for a step up transformer for around 1000$?

[MartinT]

I've used the Bob's Devices CineMags and they are great. Apparently his new Blue CineMags are even better.

http://www.bobsdevices.com/cinemag1131.htm

Speak to Bob, he is a very friendly and knowledgeable guy and will answer your questions about any specific cartridge you have in mind.

[Reid Malenfant]

Ooooh, look what I see Martin :stalks: Scroll down to the bottom of that page :)

Just what the doctor ordered :eyebrows:

[MartinT]

Balanced :)

[Reid Malenfant]

Balanced :)
Definately looks that way doesn't it :D Of course a whole lot of phono stages wouldn't accept a balanced input & that's probably a good thing to as they'd be 6Db noisier. But there is nothing stopping a prospective buyer rewiring the output to single ended in the XLR plug :)

[markf]

The cartridge weight is only 5 grams. So I believe it will require heavy headshell.




ZYX carts have an optional silver base "SB" which will take the weight up closer to 10 grams,
you can ask about that if you go for the ZYX.
I have an R100 Yatra and I like it, if you could borrow some carts first that would be
the best thing to do.

[alex_san78]

if you could borrow some carts first that would be
the best thing to do.

Hi Markf.
Thanks!
This is the main reason I came up to you guys. Can't find any dealer who could offer me any cart for test in my system... Thus I'm up for your advises!

[vouk]

IMO, can't go wrong with either the Ortofon or the Benz Ace. Very solid performers, with different however characteristics.

But, from personal experience, the ZYX is one very, very sweet sounding cartridge. I've listened extensively to the R-100-02H and it was every bit as good as my Ortofon Kontrapunkt C and at a much lesser price. The Yatra is stunning - while the "Fuji" had me drooling (until I heard its price in Greece).

As for a step up transformer, Ortofon have one called the Verto and is within your budget.

[alex_san78]

I've found one more competitor: London Decca Super Gold Cartridge.
Any comments on it?
I'm now negotiating the price of BM Ace SL but maybe I should switch to this one?

[alex_san78]

Nobody had the chance to hear the London Decca Super Gold?

[YNWaN]

The only one on your list that appeals to me is the AT33PTG. I'm not a fan of the rather tonally bleached OC9, but the 33 seems to have a bit more body.

[Gromit]

Nobody had the chance to hear the London Decca Super Gold?

I used an SG in a PL71 a few years ago - sadly it was one of those items which went on the 'for sale' list when we were raising every last £ for our house purchase.

They're perhaps a little bit of a Marmite cartridge, but as I happen to love that stuff aswell, the Decca was great fun. It should work very nicely in that Jelco 750 - it needs an arm with plenty of mass, one which can really grab hold of the cartridge, keeping the massive amounts of energy it puts out under control.

If I had a suitable tonearm, I'd have another Decca in a heartbeat. I've never heard a cartridge reproduce the transient dynamics of a drumkit so realistically - or at least it got the nearest.

[alex_san78]

Thank you guys for your comments. Will try to get Decca SG then. There is an option for it - Decca Pod... Do I need it or it is not so critical?

P.S. Also I'm looking for a new headshell. I'm considering Sumiko HS-12 or maybe Jelco HS-20. Jelco is heavier (14 grams) and also has the possibility to adjust Azimuth as Sumiko does.

[DSJR]

Mine has a Pod and I feel it helps support the rather fragile casing and interior structure well and better than the flimsy plastic mount usually supplied - lossy for unmatched arms.

Use a Unipivot of substance, since Decca's thrive in these at their best IMO and experience. Haven't tried it, but that Kuzma looks interesting. The NAS arms aren't too pricey either, LOVE Decca's but I don't know if they can easily be used with other turntables.

[alex_san78]

Thank you for your comment Dave R.

[Patrick Dixon]

As a recent convert to Deccas, I'm continually surprised to read stuff about them being a Marmite cartridge.

I've never owned a cartridge that gets close in terms of dynamics and information retrieval, and to my ears it also sounds well balanced. It's not sugar-coated though, and dirty or knackered records sound like, well, dirty or knackered records. I guess that just comes with the 'detail' bit.

I'm using mine (without a Decca-Pod) in a Trans-fi Terminator arm on a Garrard 301. It seems an excellent combination, but maybe other less-happy Decca/arm combinations are responsible for the less positive views.

I've no plans to go back to my AT33PTG anyway.

[rahman]

+1 on deccas. Superbly dynamic cartridge that can do soft and sweet as well as hard and fast (as its usually known for).

I'd agree with patrick - it lets you know whats on the record and what state the record is in. I dont find it particuarly fussy with dirty/scratched records more than others - but IME it HATES warps - even slight ones.

[Patrick Dixon]

I don't have any problem with warps with the Terminator/Decca, but it is very sensitive to static.

[DSJR]

Patrick, you've hit the nail firmly on the head I think. The Terminator is used a lot with Decca's of various types I believe and "ealier" London cartridges from the 80's could and did have severe treble resonance issues, easily measurable and very audible at times, hence the "heaven and hell" aspect mentioned in reviews. As time's gone on and various issues have been identified, it seems the newer ones (and re-built oldies) seem significantly tamed on their excesses and, to all intents and purposes, are pretty easy to use with some care in handling. Some phono stages may react badly to such dynamics though, but modern ones of these have higher overload margins and may not take off on a sudden transient such as the odd Tick or SPLat.

By the way, good Decca's with modern tips fitted can sound very gentle too, if that's the way the recording was made and I'm going to repeat that any supposed lack of "air" compared to a Koetsu (designed and voiced for a particular "sound" rather than unvarnished truth IMO) for instance is, in my view, a lack of an artifact or "haze," rather than something missing in its playback quality. So there :)

Decca's RULE - as long as you have the right tonearm and phono stage to do them justice :gig:

[Gromit]

As a recent convert to Deccas, I'm continually surprised to read stuff about them being a Marmite cartridge.


I think it's described as such because there are those who aren't always comfortable with proper dynamics. :)

I've heard descriptions (when hearing a well set-up Decca) such as 'ooh that snare drum sounds a bit forward' or 'that ride cymbal really hurts at high volume'. Well, stand within 10' of a well-played drumkit and they'll find it does exactly that. :)

I haven't owned my last Decca - it's only a matter of time until I get my next one. Absolutely love the things.

[chris@panteg]

What tonearms suit Decca's best out interest ? I ask this as I'm pretty fed up with the precept I'm using ! Dull and boring best describes it.

[DSJR]

Any good uni-pivot... Hadcocks were always good, Not sure about the Nima (too light?), The Kuzma SQ has? NAS arms old and new were designed for Decca's from the outset, so that means the old Omega Point arm, Mentor arm as I had, and the current Ace Space arm in either length. I haven't tried an Ittok or Zeta type of arm I'm afraid, but BigMoog who often posts and lurks here uses a Mission Mechanic amongst other things and maybe even a Zeta too. The Jelco 750 looks to be good as well since there's the option of light damping at the pivot and my own Micro-Scanner tracked superbly in my Rega R200, so that means the related (and better?) arm off the PL71 would be good to go as well. Oh yes, the Terminator arm as well :)

Once a Decca is built-rebuilt properly, tiped with a modern profile diamond, "Podded" IMO as well, you should find most of the temperament of old will be gone and as long as the phono stage has a high overload margin and doesn't ring when presented with ticks and pops transients, you'll be gobsmacked I think. A "London Reference" audition is on my wish list...

[chris@panteg]

Any good uni-pivot... Hadcocks were always good, Not sure about the Nima (too light?), The Kuzma SQ has? NAS arms old and new were designed for Decca's from the outset, so that means the old Omega Point arm, Mentor arm as I had, and the current Ace Space arm in either length. I haven't tried an Ittok or Zeta type of arm I'm afraid, but BigMoog who often posts and lurks here uses a Mission Mechanic amongst other things and maybe even a Zeta too. The Jelco 750 looks to be good as well since there's the option of light damping at the pivot and my own Micro-Scanner tracked superbly in my Rega R200, so that means the related (and better?) arm off the PL71 would be good to go as well. Oh yes, the Terminator arm as well :)

Once a Decca is built-rebuilt properly, tiped with a modern profile diamond, "Podded" IMO as well, you should find most of the temperament of old will be gone and as long as the phono stage has a high overload margin and doesn't ring when presented with ticks and pops transients, you'll be gobsmacked I think. A "London Reference" audition is on my wish list...

Thanks Dave

Excellent info as always , so if i fancied a Decca ,the 309 would have to go then .

[worrasf]

The Jelco 750 looks to be good as well since there's the option of light damping at the pivot Once a Decca is built-rebuilt properly, tiped with a modern profile diamond, "Podded" IMO as well, you should find most of the temperament of old will be gone and as long as the phono stage has a high overload margin and doesn't ring when presented with ticks and pops transients, you'll be gobsmacked I think.

+1 for the Jelco 750. I use this with a Decca Blue (rebuilt by Presence Audio for not a lot of dollar) in a Sumiko headshell with an additional 5g weight and it really is outstanding. A bit of damping (50%) full tightens things up even more.
It goes without saying that the phono stage in the Croft 25R is more than up to the task.
Steve

[Barry]

As an enthusiast of Decca cartridges (inter alia), you might be interested in some of the items I wrote for the Forum:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7107

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9138

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10774


All my Decca cartridges hail from the ‘80s when Decca’s quality control was, not to put too fine a point on it, abysmal. They have been used in a variety of pickup arms, all with light damping applied: Infinity ‘Black Widow’, Audio & Design (Keith Monks) M9BA, Decca International and SME 3009 (II). Some of these arms use a unipivot design other arms use knife-edge bearings.

I would recommend the cartridge is fitted with a ‘pod’. I now use mine with the GB mounting block, though Presence Audio can fit their own mounting block to early Deccas.

I supplied a sample of the Decca Mk. VI (the ‘Gold’) mounted in the GB block in a Jelco headshell to Marco for use in his (then) Jelco arm. He responded very favourably indeed. I think you will find that all who have heard a carefully installed Decca will agree that Deccas do things that no other cartridge can.

Owing to their unique design all Decca must be set up with care, and you may have to experiment with the earthing arrangements, so as to minimise hum problems and susceptibility to static discharge. I also found that due to the enormous sample-to-sample variability of ‘80s Decca cartridges, I needed to experiment with the loading.

Modern Deccas supplied by Presence Audio are of much improved construction and benefit from far higher quality control than was practiced by Decca Special Products. They can also service, rebuild and re-tip older Deccas, and in so doing remove the, at times unruly, if not aggressive treble.

So fit your Decca into your Jelco arm – and enjoy!

[worrasf]

I would recommend the cartridge is fitted with a ‘pod’. I now use mine with the GB mounting block, though Presence Audio can fit their own mounting block to early Deccas.

Not sure of the reason but Barry at Presence Audio advised me not to use a Deccapod with my Blue but supplied a nice stainless 5g disc headshell weight for the Sumiko.

Steve

[hifi_dave]

I would recommend the Pod with any London/Decca cartridge, if not for sonic reasons but to prevent the cartridge falling out of it's bracket every time you remove the guard.

[worrasf]

I would recommend the Pod with any London/Decca cartridge, if not for sonic reasons but to prevent the cartridge falling out of it's bracket every time you remove the guard.
Good point Dave - it can be a tad fiddly:eyebrows:
Steve

[Patrick Dixon]

I would recommend the Pod with any London/Decca cartridge, if not for sonic reasons but to prevent the cartridge falling out of it's bracket every time you remove the guard.

It's a good point!

John Wright suggested no Decca Pod for a Decca to be used with a Terminator. I'm not too sure of the thinking, but the Terminator wand is very light and very short and this might be why it works well with the Decca. The later Deccas are pretty light themselves.

For a more conventional longer arm, maybe damping and/or some extra weight at the headshell helps to control vertical movement at the stylus?

I'm intrigued as to just how a Jubilee or Reference might sound, but I'm not sure my pocket wants to find out.

[DSJR]

The Decca Blue has a much lower compliance I seem to remember and the Export silver (I think) and the golds had a higher lateral compliance allowing tracking down to 1.3g I seem to think (my Microscanner sounded best at around 1.5g and tracked perfectly at this weight).

I like the 'Pod because it removed the horrid soft plastic mount the thing comes with as standard. There may be genuine reasons why a Pod wasn't recommended, but I always regarded it as an upgrade..

The SME 309 should be fine I think, but see if this model can have the damper fitted?

[worrasf]

The SME 309 should be fine I think, but see if this model can have the damper fitted?

The FD200 SME damper for the 3009 are commanding silly prices - north of £200 at present for a good boxed one - more for NOS - Ive been after one or a while and have been outbid on 3 recently :doh:

Steve

[chris@panteg]

The FD200 SME damper for the 3009 are commanding silly prices - north of £200 at present for a good boxed one - more for NOS - Ive been after one or a while and have been outbid on 3 recently :doh:

Steve

? Dave do you mean the 309 or the older 3009 ?

[Slippershod]

it that is for the 3009 set, the prices have shot up recently. Wish I'd held onto mine!

[rahman]

I don't have any problem with warps with the Terminator/Decca, but it is very sensitive to static.

Interesting! What decca are you using, Patrick, and do you know its vertical compliance?

No static issues here with the c4e.

[Theo]

It's no good, I can deny myself no longer. The L07D demands the best, and a Decca shall be mine :D - but which one? I really, really fancy trying the Jubilee, but not at £1.5K. Is it worth picking up one of the older models and getting it rebuilt?

[alex_san78]

Hi guys.
It looks that I'll have to postpone my Decca SG till best times. More important and costy FAMILY project appeard...
At the moment I'll stick to Benz Micro Ace SL cartridge and new headshell (one from this short list: Ortofon lh9000 or Sumiko HS12 or Jelco HS20).
And for this year it looks I will stop any further upgrades of my system... But then... :)

[Patrick Dixon]

Interesting! What decca are you using, Patrick, and do you know its vertical compliance?

No static issues here with the c4e.

It was a Decca Blue that had been to VdH at some point. I sent it to John Wright who pronounced it knackered and rebuilt it. I don't know the compliance but John said the damping material tends to disintegrate and go gooey (especially if you get liquid on the stylus) and so he replaced that as part of the rebuild. I assume that sets the compliance.

I put it on a test record and the vertical resonance was below the 6Hz track, whilst the horizontal came out around 8Hz IIRC.

I think I probably need to buy a record cleaning machine.

[Marco]

Hi Patrick,

Next time you pop in could you please introduce yourself to our community, by posting in the Welcome area, telling us what system you use and what music you like.

You also need to add your basic geographical location to your profile, as this now required of all members.

Many thanks :)

Marco.

[DSJR]

The Decca Gold series have a highish lateral compliance, but the vertical compliance is next to non-existent. It's the possible lateral instability with massy arms which dictates a little damping if possible.

[rahman]

It was a Decca Blue that had been to VdH at some point. I sent it to John Wright who pronounced it knackered and rebuilt it. I don't know the compliance but John said the damping material tends to disintegrate and go gooey (especially if you get liquid on the stylus) and so he replaced that as part of the rebuild. I assume that sets the compliance.

I put it on a test record and the vertical resonance was below the 6Hz track, whilst the horizontal came out around 8Hz IIRC.

I think I probably need to buy a record cleaning machine.

Thanks, Patrick. I'm not sure how the compliance is set with the deccas... I'll check with John.

I think I may need to test the vertical/horizontal resonances also.

[rahman]

The Decca Gold series have a highish lateral compliance, but the vertical compliance is next to non-existent. It's the possible lateral instability with massy arms which dictates a little damping if possible.

Thanks, Dave. the issue I've got with the 64s/c4e is that with even a relatively minor warp the cart will effectively launch itself and skip inwards until the warp is diminished.

I had thought this was an issue more to do with the very limited vertical compliance, but I'm now wondering whether it is more to do with the high lateral compliance (or a perverse combination of both!).

Maybe its time for a LP flattener!

[DSJR]

I don't know the series 4 Decca's very well I'm afraid, but the C4E may well have been one of the more compliant ones.. The Rega R200 works well with the Microscanner, so depending on the arm you're using, it could be a simple matter of setup, or possibly the cartridge is telling you it needs a rebuild and re-calibration as mine needed.

[rahman]

I don't know the series 4 Decca's very well I'm afraid, but the C4E may well have been one of the more compliant ones.. The Rega R200 works well with the Microscanner, so depending on the arm you're using, it could be a simple matter of setup, or possibly the cartridge is telling you it needs a rebuild and re-calibration as mine needed.

The c4e/sc4e have the following compliance: lateral 30 x cm/dyne; vertical 6 x cm/dyne (see here: http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/May%201967/112/770367/TECHNICAL+REPORTS )

The cart was also freshly rebuilt by John before it got put into service so don't think the fault lies there...

Will play around some with tracking weight and bias and report back.

[DSJR]

Keep tracking weight well under 2g (1.5g was ideal I think for Golds and similar models with this kind of compliance) and yep, play around with the bias.

What's the arm?

[rahman]

Keep tracking weight well under 2g (1.5g was ideal I think for Golds and similar models with this kind of compliance) and yep, play around with the bias.

What's the arm?

Tracking weight is around 2g from memory. I think I've read elsewhere that it should be around 1.8 with the elliptical/line contact stylus but also, given the low compliance, that decca's are relatively less sensitive to VTF.

The arm is a FR64-s with the FR-3 headshell.

[rahman]

Update: got in touch with John and he said he hadn't heard of a C4E jumping out of the groove. According to John, if the cartridge is level and tracking about 2g, it shouldn't skip.

I think my problem may be similar to the "grado hop" (see here: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=105517 )

[rahman]

Update 2: I ran the numbers on the resonance calculator on vinylengine (http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database_tools.php#ResonanceCalculator ) and it looks like I have an arm/cart resonance of around 4Hz. Not good!

From from what I understand, a resonance at this level exaggerates the effects of warps (and TT rumble).

Oh well - no fighting science and time to get a LP flattener. On the upside, I think this confirms, to me at least, that the 301 can be indeed be a rumble free beast.

[JJack]

Update 2: I ran the numbers on the resonance calculator on vinylengine (http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database_tools.php#ResonanceCalculator ) and it looks like I have an arm/cart resonance of around 4Hz. Not good!

From from what I understand, a resonance at this level exaggerates the effects of warps (and TT rumble).

Oh well - no fighting science and time to get a LP flattener. On the upside, I think this confirms, to me at least, that the 301 can be indeed be a rumble free beast.

Is there an LP flattener that works?

[alex_san78]

Finaly I did ordered NEW cartridge yesterday (Benz Micro ACE SL) and a new headshell Ortofon LH-9000. As soon will get them in my system will describe my impressions.
Thank you guys for your support.

[rahman]

Is there an LP flattener that works?

This looks promising: http://www.vinylflat.com/vinylflatproducts.html

some user feedback here: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1312946621&openfrom&1&4#1

[alex_san78]

Just got my new Benz Micro Ace SL a few days ago and my new Ortofon 9000 headshell. Installed it today. First impressions are more than positive even without burn in time. Will report more after a week or so when will have more time for audition. + i need to adjust some more tonearm VTA. Just a bit.

[alex_san78]

One more thing - this couple looks amazing! :)

[MartinT]

:worthless:

[alex_san78]

Martin, give me some time!!!! :) Will post them ASAP. Didn't had enough time today for that. :) Saturday or Sunday will post some pictures.

[MartinT]

:)

[alex_san78]

As promised:
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9424/img7152a.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/img7152a.jpg/)
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/456/img7138d.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/201/img7138d.jpg/)
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5584/img7132o.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/img7132o.jpg/)
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2195/img7126tx.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/img7126tx.jpg/)
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7373/img7122k.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/img7122k.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/thumbnmail.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/img7119i.jpg/)

[alex_san78]

I wonder why the pictures are not full size???...

[Disles1]

I'm using a Dynavector 20XL and like it very much with a SUT (similar to Bob's Devices) but fellows on another Forum have great praise for the Denon DL S1 with the Technics SL1200.

[alex_san78]

Hi Ken,
Your SUT is also with CineMag transformers? I'd like also to get an SUT for my system.
Denon dl s1 looks really nice imo.

[MartinT]

Nice, Alex.

[alex_san78]

Thanks Martin! I really like it. Would like to try it with an SUT also but here in Moscow it will be hard to get one for test.

[MartinT]

If you buy a Bob's Devices CineMag I doubt you'll be sending it back, but also if you didn't like it you'd have no trouble selling it.

[alex_san78]

That's the one I'm looking for as a main option. I've also read about Bent Audio MU Moving Coil Step-up but they are discontinued as I know...