sell 1200 mkii for rega p3? (please advice)

[lo1979]

hi all

i own a technics 1200mk2 bought new less than a year ago, all original apart from new isolation foot, i don t want to get into tweaking (i can t afford it) so would be better to get a rega p3?

thanks in advance for your advice

regards

[Stratmangler]

Why would the Rega be any better than what you have now?

[lo1979]

Why would the Rega be any better than what you have now?


hi ya, i m just new to the vinyl world, so as far as i know the 1200 is a dj deck that once modified really become a great deck, the p3 is a entry level hi fi table, just wondering if best to stick with it (without tweaking) or move to rega.

regards

[Stratmangler]

hi ya, i m just new to the vinyl world, so as far as i know the 1200 is a dj deck that once modified really become a great deck, the p3 is a entry level hi fi table, just wondering if best to stick with it (without tweaking) or move to rega.

regards

It's a damned good deck in its own right - I wouldn't be worrying too much about downgrading to a P3 if I were you :eyebrows:

[MCRU]

A P3 sounds better than a stand alone 1200 in my book any day, of course it then depends on the cartridge of course.

I would keep the 1200 and fit a better head shell (good ones around £20-£30) and scour e-bay for a denon 103 cartridge for a good price, that will beat the pants off the Rega then.

Up-grades are not that much if you know where to look, external 21V power supply under £100, decent mat £25, plenty of cartridges, you already have feet so stick with it as when you do get more mods done the 1200 will astound you.

[kininigin]

+1 :cool:

[Tarzan]

Er keep the Techie..... all day long:)

[DSJR]

Since you already have a 1200MK2, I agree wholeheartedly. Had you been buying straight off, I'd be thinking the new P3 (RP3?) would have quite a lot to offer in terms of its own development (fixed motor which may be DC now? better belt option, refined arm tube etc...).

Just get a Sumiko or similar headshell and a techie-arm friendly cartridge (not a 103 in stock form surely?) and possibly experiment with sorbothane or similar feet, available cheaply enough in standard form. I think you'd be very pleased with the result.

By the way, the 1200mk2 was NOT designed for DJ's, it was a HiFi deck that DJ's adopted and therefore prolonged it's life by nearly thirty years :)

[lo1979]

hi all thanks for your reply,

what about to change the 1200 mk2 (fitted with audiotecnica 120 e) for a mitchel giro se with rega 300 ARM or a rega p5. that would be an upgrade compare to a stock 1200 mk2, as I said I don t wanna spend the money in modification like new bearing, arm,psu ecc ecc.. I have seen the mitchell 2nd hand for 850 £ the rega for 800£


thanks



regards

[lo1979]

Since you already have a 1200MK2, I agree wholeheartedly. Had you been buying straight off, I'd be thinking the new P3 (RP3?) would have quite a lot to offer in terms of its own development (fixed motor which may be DC now? better belt option, refined arm tube etc...).

Just get a Sumiko or similar headshell and a techie-arm friendly cartridge (not a 103 in stock form surely?) and possibly experiment with sorbothane or similar feet, available cheaply enough in standard form. I think you'd be very pleased with the result.

By the way, the 1200mk2 was NOT designed for DJ's, it was a HiFi deck that DJ's adopted and therefore prolonged it's life by nearly thirty years :)

sorry, you re right what i meant is the new one the rp3

[RobbieGong]

Honestly, I'd heard loads about the 1200 / 1210 and seen many before purchasing. IT was only when I bought my first (1210 Mk2) that I realised what a seriously well built deck it is. I actually intended on meeting the guy at a train station and bringing it home because it was a distance away. It was only when I told my friend what I intended to do that he said 'have you ever lifted one of those things?' I got a mate to take me in the end and met the seller at junction. It was when he handed the deck to me from his back seat that i thought 'my gosh' :eek: I never knew a deck could be so heavy. When I got it home and checked out it's ease of set up, Superb on the fly vta adjust (priceless in my opinion and a bigger part of set up than a lot of people think) etc I knew It was the best £160 I'd spent on a deck, no damage or issues. My second 1210 (MK5g) is a keeper. Importantly it has sounded good from the word go and just got better with each mod. Trust me you'll be amazed with just a good cart, KAB fluid damper (£100.00) and a set of Isonoe feet (£80.00) - No spend at all really compared to what you can spend and it will sound good, hold speed like nothing else and last :)
Listening to mine at the mo with the above and Mike New bearing, so much detail, I just can't get enough of it (Ok the 2M Black digs out loads of detail as does the Genesis Silver Spiral Speaker cable, but the Techy is at the helm !)

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'd say you really need to listen to these options - you're asking about some very different things and at very different price tags.
You will prefer the sound of one of them & that is surely what counts isn't it?
If you are interested in the soundstage and image placement, then the one to beat is the Gyro, for timing, it's probably the Technics. Take some time & do some listening.

[DSJR]

The Gyro to my ears sounds a bit "swimmy," for want of a better word. Swimmy in imaging mainly and something the orbe appears to fully sort out (along with an SME 309 upwards..)..

Get a read of Gromit's ongoing adventures with his Techie. It looks as though Vantage Audio are doing some very cost-effective updates and with these, an expensive external power supply looks less financially imposing...

[kininigin]

It was only when I told my friend what I intended to do that he said 'have you ever lifted one of those things?' I got a mate to take me in the end and met the seller at junction. It was when he handed the deck to me from his back seat that i thought 'my gosh' :eek: I never knew a deck could be so heavy.

You should try carrying a pair of them with a record bag full to the brim.

I do miss a good house party :eyebrows:

[RobbieGong]

You should try carrying a pair of them with a record bag full to the brim.

I do miss a good house party :eyebrows:

Ha ha - And thats why you probably look like a body builder Darren and why I look .....well pretty lean :lol:

[Jason P]

If you're going to replace the Techhie for a Gyro at £850 surely you'd be better off modding the Technics? You may be lucky and get £400 for a good condition Mk5, so you'd be spending around £450 for the upgrade - on the 1200 that's most of the basic mods done. Headshell, feet, PSU and mat should all be do-able and if you're lucky, a decent cart too. I'd try and hear a suitably modded one for around that money and see if you prefer the alternatives.

Jason

[DSJR]

To return to the beginning, I'd do some inexpensive work on the Techie - new shell and Vantage Audio style feet? - and then take it to your local Rega dealer for a dem, preferably with the same cartridge type in each. Don't let the dealer plonk the Techie down on just any old surface either, but get them to be fair to both turntables.. I was taken to task for mentioning the "tune dem," but being able to follow melody lines and harmonies deep within the mix is one way of telling a good source (in this instance) from a less good one and a way I found quite natural to me..

[lo1979]

thanks for all the replays guys

cheers

[Epicurus]

Common wisdom (or myth) has it that the Rega P3 is significantly better than the Techie.

Actually, it's not that much better. The only easily noticeable issues that the Techie has is hum from the internal transformer and some metallic signature from the stock tonearm, which is otherwise a pretty decent unit in its own right. Other than these issues, you'd be basically on your way to becoming a full-blown perfectionist.

The SL-1200 Mk1 and Mk2 were not designed from the beginning as DJ decks. They were designed as Hi-Fi decks by Technics, the more serious (when it comes to audio) brand owned by Panasonic. The DJs adopted them for the following qualities:

1. Excellent build quality
2. Reliability
3. Excellent motor stability
4. Easily adjustable (even on the fly, with a little care) tonearm
5. Affordability.

If you can do it, take the internal transformer out and either place it on the floor outside the deck in a separate box or use a good external PSU like the ones recommended by the other guys in this forum (to tell the truth, many external PSUs for the Techie are quite good actually).

Personally, I wouldn't use a Denon 103 on the stock arm. The arm works better with high-compliance MM cartridges (get an Ortofon 2M Red or Blue or a Nagaoka and you'll be thanking yourself for it). If you want the Denon, just replace the stock arm with a Jelco 750 with a HEAVY headshell and you're cooking with gas. Oh, and rewire the arm with something better while you're at it.

[Stacker45]

Last week i was exactly in the same positon you are now,i put my Technics SL-1200 up for sale,went out,and got a brand new Rega RP3 on wich,the tech at the store,installed my Ortofon 2M Black.

I first listened to the RP3 with an LP i'm very familiar with,wich by the way, sounded very good on the SL-1200/2MBlack combo,and the first things i noticed was that it had less bass than the SL-1200,the highs were shrill to a point that it bothered me so much,that i just stop listening,

For me,the only advantage the Rega has over the Technics is more details,it can dig out more information from the grooves,but the whole presentation is in my opinoin,less musical than the Technics,i couldn't get ''lost'' in the music,so,the Rega went back to the store the next day,so,i'm still the proud owner of a Technics SL-1200 Mk2.

[DSJR]

Siting for both models is important too, as I believe it is with most "solid plinthed" decks. I think you'll find that as you go on with the Techie upgrades, the bass becomes in better control and proportion, but without the sound going shrill in the meantime.

[alex_san78]

Last week i was exactly in the same positon you are now,i put my Technics SL-1200 up for sale,went out,and got a brand new Rega RP3 on wich,the tech at the store,installed my Ortofon 2M Black.

I first listened to the RP3 with an LP i'm very familiar with,wich by the way, sounded very good on the SL-1200/2MBlack combo,and the first things i noticed was that it had less bass than the SL-1200,the highs were shrill to a point that it bothered me so much,that i just stop listening,

For me,the only advantage the Rega has over the Technics is more details,it can dig out more information from the grooves,but the whole presentation is in my opinoin,less musical than the Technics,i couldn't get ''lost'' in the music,so,the Rega went back to the store the next day,so,i'm still the proud owner of a Technics SL-1200 Mk2.

Congrats to you Serge! :)
If I would change my deck for another one, it would be something MORE expensive and massive... RP3 is more or less same level of tt's. But Technics in comparison with Rega RP3 gives you more possibilities to upgrade your sound in time as soon you get more free money for that... Which I do really appreciate.
Another deck for my future system will be: Trans-rotor or Acoustic signature... SME deck as a GOOOOOOOD and expensive option... :eyebrows:
But Techie will stay anyway. :D

[Stacker45]

My first tought was to go with the VPI Scout,but since it's more expensive, and the Rega RP3 is getting good reviews i figured i'd give it a try.And just to be clear,i'm not saying that it's not worth the money,i'm just saying that i didn't like the RP3/2M Black combo as much as the SL-1200/M Black combo.

[WOStantonCS100]

All joking aside, I really wanted the Rega RP3 to be a better TT than it is; because, let's face it, in custom colors, it just looks cool. Minimalistic. The Rega / Technics war is an old one. I listened. I compared. I kept the Techies. I'm a happy gent.

[RobbieGong]

My first tought was to go with the VPI Scout,but since it's more expensive, and the Rega RP3 is getting good reviews i figured i'd give it a try.And just to be clear,i'm not saying that it's not worth the money,i'm just saying that i didn't like the RP3/2M Black combo as much as the SL-1200/M Black combo.

Hi Serge, I second the Technics SL12XX / Ortofon 2M Black combo as in my experience it is superb and sounds lovely. That combo gets better and better with each mod or upgrade, where you really hear how well the Black extracts and portrays / reveals what is on the vinyl in the way it does, texture, 3D, transparency etc. :D

[Stacker45]

Hi Serge, I second the Technics SL12XX / Ortofon 2M Black combo as in my experience it is superb and sounds lovely. That combo gets better and better with each mod or upgrade, where you really hear how well the Black extracts and portrays / reveals what is on the vinyl in the way it does, texture, 3D, transparency etc. :D

Hello Robert,There is no question that the Black is a great cartridge,i also own a 2M Blue and there's no doubt that the Black is a big step up from the Blue,but the key word for me now is,synergy,if there's one thing i've learned from my last few experiences,is that,newer,or more expensive,does not always mean better.It's more a question of how the different components will blend,so to speak,with one another,that either works or not.Case in point my second systhem,witch i guess we can call vintage,consists of a Yamaha CA-610 II integreated amp that my father gave me, a Yamaha YP-B2 Turntable that i bought for $40,on wich i installed an Audio-Technica-95e,and a farely recent Yamaha DVD-S 1800.At this point i have to say that i listen to music mostly with headphones,and on this systhem,when i listen to vinyls,i use my Grado GS-1000,but if i listen to CD,i use my HP-1000,i've tryed it the other way around and somehow the sinergy is just not there.

[twelvebears]

i know the 1200 is a dj deck

Oh no he didn't! :sofa:

I think you will find that it is/was actually a great deck, which just happened to be as tough as Ray Mears' boots, and so got adopted by DJs as something (the only thing?) they yomp about and still expect to work properly.

:lol:

[RobbieGong]

Oh no he didn't! :sofa:

I think you will find that it is/was actually a great deck, which just happened to be as tough as Ray Mears' boots, and so got adopted by DJs as something (the only thing?) they yomp about and still expect to work properly.

:lol:

Man !! As far as decks go the 12XX is as tough as tough can get :lol: and that is a big plus with this deck. That and it's ease of usability. The fact it sounds good straight out the box is another bonus. Tweak and upgrade properly and it goes from good to excellent - big thumps up to Technics (Panasonic):thumbsup:

[Stacker45]

Man !! As far as decks go the 12XX is as tough as tough can get :lol: and that is a big plus with this deck. That and it's ease of usability. The fact it sounds good straight out the box is another bonus. Tweak and upgrade properly and it goes from good to excellent - big thumps up to Technics (Panasonic):thumbsup:

I second that,mine is stock,and i just finished listening to Jackson Brown's 'Running on empty' album wich i paid $2 for,and i still can't believe how good this deck sounds,yeah! $2 for an album,is this a great hobby or what :D

[DSJR]

How many "new" techies are out there in the marketplace these days, since it ceased production nigh on a year ago now IIRC?

Rega buyers "should" get the expertise of a good dealer to service and set it up (as long as one avoids many of the southern UK chain dealerships who often lack turntable expertise these days I understand - still leaves many tens of independants out there :)). buying a techie with the intention of improving it is the province of members here and maybe a handful in the wider world and, I suspect, something the user will have to fettle/update themselves.

[JJack]

With regard to mods, I realize I'm almost alone on this, but you don't need to do a thing to a 1200.

I bought an Ortofon headshell and a Shure 97xe (total cost 79.00) and it's already special.

I had a Rega P2 back in the mid-1990s. I liked it, but the speed always seemed off to me. Stereophile found the same thing in Mike Fremer's review of the P3. I love the Rega arm, but have never been impressed with the table. The Technics speed is rock-steady (digital-like in that regard).

So, you can do mods if you want, and I'm sure they're worthwhile, but it's great right now.

[hellenic vanagon]

BLIND TEST

TECHNICS SL-120/1200 MK1 ORIGINAL (SERVO NOT QUARTZ), vs REGA3 vs YAMAHA YP-701

http://www.iavscanada.com/Articles/measuring.JPG

http://www.iavscanada.com/Articles/art_turntable.htm

[Wakefield Turntables]

He doesn't want to get into tweeking! :eek:

[Marco]

I'm not sure what the picture is supposed to represent, in reference to the post title you provided? It may be obvious to you, but not to others.... Please explain.

Marco.

[Tarzan]

hi all

i own a technics 1200mk2 bought new less than a year ago, all original apart from new isolation foot, i don t want to get into tweaking (i can t afford it) so would be better to get a rega p3?

thanks in advance for your advice




regards


No.

[hellenic vanagon]

I'm not sure what the picture is supposed to represent, in reference to the post title you provided? It may be obvious to you, but not to others.... Please explain.

Marco.

It is a photo from the event.

Opening the link you see it.

[diviy]

The p3 is in my opinion is underrated yes it needs a few mods micheal lim upgrages ,srm platter ,origin live counter weight turns the deck into a fantastic deck on a budget but not everyone can spend stupid money on hifi, But then I am in the market for a sl1210 allways wanted one so fingers crossed next week I am gonna pick one up.at the end of the day it`s about the music not the machine we play it with that counts.

[twotone]

I had a P3 and RB300 arm, nothing special IMO,

[Marco]

Interesting article, Chris, so thanks for sharing. I of course concur with the notion that the best vintage T/Ts can easily compete with (and in some cases outperform) their modern counterparts! :)

The SL-120 is indeed an excellent turntable. I'd love to hear one and compare it with a stock SL-1200, both fitted with the same arm and cartridge. I think the results would be interesting...

Don't forget, however, that in the test you linked to, there were some rather significant variables at play, which will almost certainly have played a big part in the results that were achieved: namely that all T/Ts were fitted with different arms and cartridges! ;)

Furthermore, IMO, the SME 3009, fitted to the SL-120 was the best tonearm out of the three featured - and not only that, it was a match made in heaven for the Shure cartridge that partnered it - all of which, along with the fact that the Technics was the best engineered turntable amongst those tested, would've combined to make it the winner.

Oh, and awesome bass is always something any quality direct-drive turntable has excelled at, especially the Technics!

Marco

[Macca]

Don't forget, however, that in the test you linked to, there were some rather significant variables at play, which will almost certainly have played a big part in the results that were achieved: namely that all T/Ts were fitted with different arms and cartridges! ;)


Apparantly the SL120 and the Rega 3 had the same arm and cartridge. I've done a similar comparison between SL1200 and RP3 (different arm, same cart) and found the same thing which is that the Technics sounds more balanced and slightly warmer. It also has much more bass 'impact and slam' which I think is what contributes to the overall impression of 'more/deeper bass' rather than the Technics actually going lower in frequency response. The THD figure is interesting too, Technics at less than half the others. That will be the magnetic drive to the platter as opposed to using a rubber band around a plastic flywheel I suspect.

[RichB]

So many variables, difficult to say... I've actually have both a p3-24 and a 1210mkII.

I prefer the Rega. I partially put this down to the fact that it sits in a Rega system and suits the amp and phono stage, also the fact that I use an 'exact' cart, given it the white belt upgrade and power it with a TTPSU. This gives me an overall sound i enjoy more than the technics (with its ortofon concord).

DSJR has it spot on here though, siting is everything and the next area of improvement for me. I'm working on bringing Mrs B round to the idea of a wall shelf which will be ideal really.

[Macca]

Have you tried the Exact on the Technics, Rich? I think if you are doing a comparison you can maybe get away with using different arms but cartridges can sound so obviously different it makes the whole procedure invalid. I've never heard an Exact but it must be a million miles away from a Concorde, which, lets face it, is a bit crude-sounding.

[Marco]

Apparantly the SL120 and the Rega 3 had the same arm and cartridge.

The picture of the Rega 3 shows it fitted with an SME Series III arm, whereas the SL-120 was fitted with an SME 3009 - very different arms, dude, and the Yamaha's arm was different again...

Agree with the rest of your post, though, particularly the last bit! :)

Marco.

[Macca]

The picture of the Rega 3 shows it fitted with an SME Series III arm, whereas the SL-120 was fitted with an SME 3009 - very different arms, dude, and the Yamaha's arm was different again...

Agree with the rest of your post, though, particularly the last bit! :)

Marco.

Ah right. I was putting too much faith in this bit: 'So at least in the case of the Technics SL-120 and the Rega Planar 3, we were hearing almost entirely the sound of the turntables themselves, rather than sound of the tonearms and cartridges'

[Marco]

No problemo :)

What's really needed, in order to make the test more relevant, are three different T/Ts, all fitted with the same arm and cartridge, played through the same system, using the same music.

Marco.

[hellenic vanagon]

No problemo :)

What's really needed, in order to make the test more relevant, are three different T/Ts, all fitted with the same arm and cartridge, played through the same system, using the same music.

Marco.

Talking about the two main rivals, technics vw rega, we have:

1)Better arm for Rega.

2)The same cartridge. (Shure V III).

3)The same system. (Calibrated for each source).

4)The same music.

One more important thing is that the SL-1200 is Servo Direct Drive, (Not Quartz), (Nasa's choice), vs Rega's belt drive.

And nobody ever said that the great difference in sound between the two schools has something to do with cartridges and tonearms.

From the test:

"Having compared current-model turntables in my home system, I expected the differences among the turntables tested here to be subtle-and frankly, I expected the Rega Planar 3 to beat the vintage turntables easily. After all, it's belt-drive and the others are direct-drive, and audiophiles say belt-drive is better. Well, in this case, at least, the audiophiles are wrong."

and

"Simply put, the Technics SL-120 walked all over the other two turntables. "It's just better balanced in every way," one panelist said. The SL-120's best attribute was its bass, which was much fuller, more tuneful and more precise than the other turntables could muster. The difference wasn't subtle; I could hear it even from behind the speakers. But it wasn't just the bass-the SL-120 also had a warmer, more natural tonal balance than the other turntables. Of the six listeners, five picked the SL-120 as their clear favorite. "

P.S.

a)Late answer because there was never a warning about your comments.

b)Since the link about the test is broken, do you like to upload it in photobucket and download here the photos?