I-Pad, Sony -Tablets etc [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Rare Bird

27-12-2011, 10:26

I was in a certain electrical superstore yesterday looking at some new goodies, especially the loverly looking laptops which were really tasty...

Something that seemed popular amongst punters was I -Pad & Sony Tablet & another which i can't remember :scratch:

Can someone explain how you get music onto these things & is there any limit to the amount & most importantly does it have to be apple lossless with the I-Pad? if so i think i prefer the Sony but then the same questions applies. I overheard someone mentioning apps which realy confused me, so you can imagine i left no wiser :rfl:

I ask this as i much prefer a touch screen way of selecting music in preference to a present laptop that has to rely on a physical Keyboard & mouse.. Is it easy to intergrate these tHings into a proper stereo system?

anyone? as i'm well & totally thick when things like this are concerned, however i am a very fast learner & determined to get into the future real quick :eyebrows:

brian2957

27-12-2011, 10:34

Good thread , I've been wondering too how to integrate these pads into

a hifi system . I've just managed to get a laptop to play music through

my system . I will keep my eye on this thread , might learn something here .

Cheers , Brian.

Cans

27-12-2011, 11:21

Hi there,
Anything like that will need to be fed through a DAC. question is whether you can do it and how easy.
John westlake(the designer behind the Audiolab 8200 CD CDQ and M-DAC) has mentioned with an apple device that you can stream using an apple camera connecting kit and getting the settings right. Lossless is as easy as setting up itunes in your preferences and selecting ALAC with error correction box ticked. Then put your CD in , open up Itunes and import CD when prompted.
as for other makes of tablet, unsure whether a mini usb into them will work.
A netbook with a normal usb, easy as pie.
I had an IPad, I sold it. Found them too restrictive. A netbook can have almost as much battery life, and you can attach stuff to them and do anything on the internet, and play lossless using Foobar2000 and ASIO4ALL, piece of cake:):):):):)

Tim

27-12-2011, 11:57

André, is your aim to actually stream music from the device or just control your file based system?

I have used an iPad with a Linn DS system and it's fantastic just flicking through your collection of album covers and then tapping what you want to play. But ultimately the iPad was just a remote commander for the DS. The elements in the system were the iPad, a NAS to store the music, a home network with the DS attached to it and the stereo to play it. Not simple....... and very expensive :scratch:

The tablets in question are great, but IMO not really practical for what I 'think' you are aiming for, but I may be wrong? At the moment they could easily be used as remote controls and there is software available for the iPad that will control a Windows computer, but with Windows 8 on the horizon I would be tempted to wait for that if you are going to remain Windows based. As it's a touch based operating system there will be a mass of choice available for Windows based tablets, that are going to do what an iPad does. I don't think storing music on an iPad and then streaming it is practical, due to it's very limited amount of internal storage. However, there is airport express like Werner uses and the Apple fanbois will no doubt be able to offer advice here?

Apple recently announced that they are going to allow other lossless formats playable on their devices (big of them), so you could if you wanted do that, but it would involve a lot of expense.

I want to go down this road too and my aim is to be able to sit at my listening position with a 10" tablet and scroll through my album collection with something like JRiver and then just tap what I want to play - is this what you are after too?

Rare Bird

27-12-2011, 12:51

I was wanting to call up music only, i don't intend using the actual thing as a music machine..My vision would be a large touch screen on the wall i can walk upto & select any album by touch, this seem possible yesterday by touch i called up a selected tune. I just want to know how i can use it or simular ie the Sony as a controller?? I need to use FLAC.

DSJR

27-12-2011, 13:33

You'll need a VERY thick fire-jacket and an equally thick skin, but have a look on the HDD forum, as doing what you want is their supposed prime reason for existance.

I get the impression that tablets are used as remote controls to a NAS or similar. Good luck and a PM to Alex_UK should be in order I think, as he has a working model of what you want to do I think...

Rare Bird

27-12-2011, 13:48

I'm sure Alex will see this thread.. ive noticed one of those aps things :scratch: for media monkey which sound promising..I was thinking maybe these controllers will more than likley be working with your pooter by magic air waves :lol: to access your music, but thats another thing i dont want the pooter all the time, i'm trying to say off it as much as i can in the new year :)

Stratmangler

27-12-2011, 14:00

Sounds like you need a Squeezebox Touch with a USB HDD plugged into it ;)
The Squeezebox Touch has an embedded server (doesn't necessarily need to have a computer on to drive it, although it's possible to do that too, if you want to).
And a touch screen.
And plays FLAC natively (up to 24/96 files)
It can also be controlled from an iPad, iPhone, or Android Tablette device, although you'll need apps to do this.

If you want to maintain your use of Media Monkey then you have no option but to have a computer on and running MM.
MM will interface with a number of tablette devices for remote control purposes http://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Compatible_UPnP/DLNA_Devices

Tim

27-12-2011, 14:00

I think you will struggle to do without the computer André :scratch: Your touchscreen will either need to be connected to a computer or be a wireless device to control your media server, which is likely to be a computer or similar media player. As yet I don't know of a large touchscreen that will do what you would like?

As you have rightly identified, the tablets, iTouch, iPhones or other devices are remote controllers and the Apps are the software which allows them to access the music player (whatever that should be) and send commands for it to play what you want. A simple version is to buy an iTouch and get an app that will allow it to control your music player. A large 'remote' touchscreen on the wall is not something I'm aware of right now, unless it's just a screen attached to a computer or part of a network?

It's possible to do what you want, but not IMO without the computer...... I think what you are eluding to is something like a 20" iPad on the wall that will remotely control a music server - is this what you are after?

Rare Bird

27-12-2011, 14:24

I'l have to think about this a bit more
Chris:
I wouldnt be seen dead with a squeezebox ;)

Stratmangler

27-12-2011, 14:29

I'l have to think about this a bit more
Chris:
I wouldnt be seen dead with a squeezebox ;)

That's exactly what I thought :eyebrows:
Does fit the bill though ;)

Ali Tait

27-12-2011, 14:33

Andre, if you decide to get a tablet, let me know. My other half's son works in Currys and gets a discount, so I could get a few quid off for you.

Rare Bird

27-12-2011, 14:34

I think a touch controller & notebook maybe the best thing till so called technology moves on! 2012 nearly & were still cave men in this respect it seems.. :lolsign:

Tim

27-12-2011, 14:44

Lol, I can't see André with a Squeezebox either, but it does do the task (with limitations though).

André, I think the advent of Windows 8 will bring a raft of changes as manufacturers gear up to offer products to work with it. Large touchscreen monitors will start appearing at an affordable price and you will be able to do just what you want, if I have understood you correctly? Unless of course you want to switch over to Apple and buy all their goodies :eyebrows:

I tend to keep up on these things and as your goal is similar to mine I will keep abreast of progress and can update this thread, should I discover anything suitable.

If you had a large touchscreen on the wall, you could strap a Fit-PC to it's back and this could remotely serve up a media player situated somewhere else. This would work along the lines you have suggested, but the key is finding a large and affordable touchscreen and the software to go with it.....which is exactly what Microsoft are planning it would seem..... the demise of the keyboard and mice for those that just want to touch a screen.

http://fit-pc.co.uk

p92QfWOw88I

Stratmangler

27-12-2011, 14:49

You could go another route - something like this (http://www.ebuyer.com/283921-zyxel-nsa310-2tb-1x-2tb-nas-drive-91-016-007009b) can be left on 24/7, as it spins down when not in use, and uses very little juice when it's in full flow.
There's a built in DNLA media server on the device.
Dump all of your music onto it and you're part way there.

Then you could access your music using a Tablette device, with a media player app.
Can't say whether your music will sound any good coming off a Tablette device, but a lot will depend on the SQ of the analogue outputs of the Tablette, although if it has a S/PDIF out then you should be able to find a DAC you like to hang off the back.

Welder

27-12-2011, 15:19

Good grief, you lot and yer feckin expensive touchy feely gadgets wot go tits up at every opportunity. :doh::mental:

Ahem, thinking outside the box, or just trying a different box with a few holes poked in it, I’ve been using one of these for a while now.
Personally, I can’t cope with the phone/pad type gadgets because everything is just too small, necessitating glasses, children’s fingers, the right angle, setup stopping the bloody thing trying to talk to the internet, or even worse, relatives........ and did I mention the expense.:eek:

This on the other hand is one of the most expensive variants (a really cheap one does pretty much all one could want) and, does everything you are used to doing with a traditional mouse and even better, your kids and missus don’t try to make phone calls on it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-M570-Wireless-Trackball-Graphite/dp/B0042BBR2S/ref=pd_cp_computers_1

Soooo, you can still use any media player you fancy and have it displayed on any screen you want.

Not that I’m trying to slow down technological progress or anything but I really don’t want to wait for Microshite to rush me for yet another half finished OS and I certainly don’t want to be rushed mega bucks for a touch screen of readable proportions when I have that feeling that of few sticky honey and marmite sandwiches in the wrong hands is likely to render the gadget inoperable.

keiths

27-12-2011, 15:59

I use XBMC media centre on my Linux box. That's connected to my Caiman and to my TV. I just use a cheap generic IR remote control to select music, but sometimes use the XBMC Android client on my phone if I don't want to switch the TV on. I may well get a cheap Android tablet to run the same app as it would benefit from a larger touch screen.

The biggest advantage of the Android phone app is that I can use it to change the music playing in my local pub as they also use XBMC as the pub's jukebox (the landlord still hasn't worked out why Lady GaGa often stops abruptly and Pink Floyd starts playing when I'm in there :eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows:)

Tim

27-12-2011, 16:36

Good grief, you lot and yer feckin expensive touchy feely gadgets wot go tits up at every opportunity.
:lol: indeed John, I can't argue ..... but André is after a specific thing and I'm not sure a trackball mouse is going to provide that - in fact I'm certain it isn't what he's after. I know you have your views on 'touchy feely' gadgets, but I have to say that browsing through albums on some sort of touch screen is a pleasing experience, much like browsing through a record collection? It's a very tactile and elegant solution to serving up file based audio.

Not for everyone I know and it's clearly not for you, but does that make 'us lot' a bunch of numpties for thinking a different way?

. . . the landlord still hasn't worked out why Lady GaGa often stops abruptly and Pink Floyd starts playing when I'm in there:rfl:

Welder

27-12-2011, 17:12

:

Not for everyone I know and it's clearly not for you, but does that make 'us lot' a bunch of numpties for thinking a different way?

:rfl:

OMG! Does he really want an honest answer?:D

Nope, you are absolutely right Tim. Andre quite obviously wants something big he can poke…..:eyebrows:

I was just suggesting a cheaper alternative, and imo, rather neat solution to the problem of controlling at a distance, without wires, a media player.
I have no objection to people spending their money on “i” thingies if that’s what ticks their boxes; I’ll take your word on the lovely tactile sensation people get while stroking these things; you cant poke them as well can you?:hmm::pat:

Tim

27-12-2011, 17:41

I’ll take your word on the lovely tactile sensation people get while stroking these things; you cant poke them as well can you?:hmm::pat:
You can never have too many things around that you can poke John ;)

morris_minor

27-12-2011, 17:44

As a numptie with six Squeeze players around the house I wouldn't be without my iPeng app for the iPad for controlling them all - and even using the iPad as another player when sunning myself in the garden with a beer. You can even load FLAC files directly to the device, given the right app. Hell, you can also type forum posts on it. :cool:

'Scuse me while I continue stroking :D

Stratmangler

27-12-2011, 18:17

You could always get one of these http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-3217-marantz-na7004-amfmdabinternet-radio-tuner-and-dac-with-free-apple-airplay-upgrade.aspx , using the NAS I mentioned earlier for storage.

Mark Grant

27-12-2011, 18:17

I think a touch controller & notebook maybe the best thing till so called technology moves on! 2012 nearly & were still cave men in this respect it seems.. :lolsign:

Something else to look at is Sonos. They have been around for a few years :)

http://www.sonos.com/

All you would need is a router, your music on a NAS drive, just one zone player plugged into your hifi or DAC and either the Sonos touchscreen controller or try an iphone, android phone or tablet with the free app.

If you want to expand it to multiroom you just by more zone players to expand it.

No need for a PC to run it and you can stream your ripped cd's and spotify and lots of radio stations if that interests you.

For a single zone system the zone player needs a network cable to your router so it has internet and NAS drive access.
For multi room zones any one of the zones can be plugged into your router then the rest is wireless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV31ZX68Ygk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfqehOE5Je4

See if you can get a demo in Richer sounds or wherever your local Sonos dealer is.

Welder

27-12-2011, 19:30

Hi Andre.

I realize my suggestion of a hand held trackball may at first seem a bit daft.
I spent a fair bit of time looking into how I could control various music players remotely and still have the ability to use any dac and server and media player combination without getting tied into a particular product or set of application.

The first thing is a lot of these guys want a headless (no monitor) solution to streaming and the various pads are great for this albeit too small in general for me to find easy to use/read.
The other down side imo is pad type controllers all require some extra learning to handle the various setups and applications, and of course, each one is different. I get irritated just trying to make a simple phone call with some of the net able touch screen phone/computers. If I’m going to have to engage the brain I would rather it was for something that won’t be obsolete next week and doesn’t throw all its dollies out of the pram if you drop it or accidentally press the wrong keys.

Like yourself I think, I want to be able to see a GUI (general user interface/media player on a screen) without the need for finding my glasses or having to mess about with various applications and what can be quite complex setups (I think this is essentially what you are after anyway) and I don’t necessarily want to be tied to a desk type environment when I’m experimenting with various aspects of the player.

I don’t necessarily want the screen displaying my media library information attached to a laptop either, but I found I did want all the control a traditional mouse/keyboard arrangement gives.

Kieths suggestion, use a standard remote control is another alternative but not all media players and OS combinations support this. On the other hand, everything I’ve come across so far can be manipulated with a mouse.

So, to be clear, I’m not knocking the technology as such but from what I’ve seen the units themselves are not particularly well made and the technology often not that well implemented regarding usability and reliability.

Just a thought mate.

pwood

27-12-2011, 20:22

I use my Sonos with my Ipad and our 2 Android phones and as its so easy I have never listened to music as much as I do now.:cool:

If you want a tablet to listen to lossless music on then the iPad is not the way to go as its not got enough space and wont do FLAC only Apple Lossless which whilst okay is annoying as is getting media on and off it having to use iTunes all the time.

MartinT

28-12-2011, 04:36

André, I think the advent of Windows 8 will bring a raft of changes as manufacturers gear up to offer products to work with it.

Agreed, Tim, and Windows Phone 7 gives a good feel for how things are going to be with live tiles and touch interface. If you like the WP7.5 interface, Metro is going to be a welcome new UI.

For the sake of balance, the best iPhone/iPad controller app I've ever seen is the one created by PS Audio for their DACs:

http://www.psaudio.com/products/audio/media-players/

slate

28-12-2011, 08:17

I enjoy using SqueezeRemote on my Lumia 800; very fluent and nice features with lyrics and artist info; the latter even works on Radio Paradise which sends track info in their stream.

With that said I still cant justify buying a tablet to myself. Yes it is impressive standing with one but I am sure that I would get annoyed with the limitations after minutes.

BTW as a developer I work with touch screen technology everyday.
Ive got a 23" 1920x1080 screen on my desk, but I only use the touch feature when testing those of our applications that are to run on a touch interface.
For office applications and development tools it just doesn't feel natural and it is faster too use a mouse.
Reminds me that it is time to polish the screen.... fingerprints a plenty

Mark Grant

28-12-2011, 12:30

I thought Andre mentioned HRT streamer but cant see it now.:scratch:

Anyway here is a link to someone using a HRT USB streamer plugged directly into a Synology NAS drive and has it working, so no separate streaming box required, just the NAS and the DAC and a way of controlling it.

http://patnotebook.blogspot.com/2011/04/hrt-music-streamer-ii-usb-dac.html

that would work OK as CD's would be ripped as before with Andre's preferred software and then controlled by PC or iphone/ipad app etc.

Minimal costs as a NAS is needed anyway and Andre already has a HRT (I think)

The Audio station app is included for free in all of the Synology NAS drives as far as I know, even the cheapest slow ones such as 'j' series that stream perfectly well:
http://www.synology.com/us/products/features/audiostation2.php

Simple remote control that has a digital out on the box:
http://www.synology.com/products/synology_remote.php?lang=enu

USB audio device compatibility list for Synology NAS:
http://forum.synology.com/wiki/index.php/User_Reported_Compatible_USB_Speakers
A few DACS on there :)

Someone needs to test if Stanley Beresford's DAC's work when connected by USB to Synology NAS :)

This streaming technology is moving so fast :)

Rare Bird

28-12-2011, 13:19

Thanks Mark, looks great but it's the visual aspect of it thats not to my taste..

Has anyone had any experience with ZyXEL NAS jobbies, how do these actually work? they look quite nice & cheap, i'm willing to give up the M Monkey as long as the new media player can handle FLAC & has an onboard EQ..As outlined i must be able to use the HRT 'Streamer II' aswell as 'Headstreamer'

I like the NSA310, you can buy it without Hard drive so you can fit your own upto 3TB i think, which is massive for my needs..also the ability to plug in an external eSata disk to create a Raid array to protect data, i like..

Tim

28-12-2011, 13:53

Now that's a very interesting find Mark, never thought to plug a DAC directly into a NAS before :scratch:
Synology make pretty solid NAS boxes too, with good software.
Good call :)

Alex_UK

28-12-2011, 14:42

My approach is a separate laptop tucked away under the hifi, accessed by either iPod Touch or for most of the time, my main laptop using Remote Desktop. I'm with others though that an iPod/Phone is just too small to control a whole music library - I just tend to use it as a start/stop remote rather than browsing for albums. The iPad may well be ideal in this respect though with a bigger screen.

I'm not sure if there is anything similar available in the UK yet (these guys don't have any representation over here yet as far as I know - could be an opportunity over here - Mr Grant? ;)) - but this is a fantastic idea for integrating an iPad (they do a Touch version too) into the home as a central controller:

http://iportmusic.com/products/CM

The NAS/HRT idea is very interesting though...

Tim

29-12-2011, 23:58

Here's something interesting I just found - use an iPad to control a Windows PC running JRiver or Media Monkey or similar. Is this what you use Alex?

Air Display Music Server (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Air-Display-and-Music-Server-Enhancement-Ideas-Update)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/airdisplay.jpg

Alex_UK

30-12-2011, 00:06

Here's something interesting I just found - use an iPad to control a Windows PC running JRiver or Media Monkey or similar. Is this what you use Alex?[/IMG]

Nope - but looks interesting! (I just use the "plug in" remote apps for Foobar, itunes, Spotify etc. whereas this would allow full control of the PC. :))

webby

30-12-2011, 11:07

Tim

01-01-2012, 22:52

I've done a little research on this and it's not as good as I first thought and I should have realised it really. You will have your PC screen displayed on the iPad touchscreen, but of course it won't work like a touchscreen as you will be controlling a mouse pointer with your finger. Rather tricky according to those that have tried it.

"You have to install a VNC server program on the computer and basically the computer screen shows up on the iPad. It's not exactly touch screen as when you touch the screen, you are controlling the pointer/mouse so you have to manipulate the pointer to wherever you want. It takes a little bit of learning to get equivalent control of right and left mouse button, select, drag etc. I tend to use my monitor to select music and use the iPad for stop, pause, next track, last track control as that is much easier."

Back to the drawing board :scratch:

Tim

05-01-2012, 21:32

This will do the trick, but only for JRiver.

JRemote

http://www.jremote.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/fontbanner.png

JRemote is a full featured native iOS remote for JRiver Media Center. Inspired by Apples iTunes remote application, JRemote was designed to give you the same experience on your Windows PC running JRMC.

http://www.jremote.net

Info thread here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/JRemote-J-River-Media-Center