Red Wine Audio LFP-V Edition vs SET Amps

[Lord Soth]

Hi there,

I am seriously thinking of getting a Red Wine Audio Signature (either 15 or 30.2) amp for my hi-fi.

Has anyone heard and compared the RWA amps vs other SET amps (e.g. Decware SET amps etc)?

Thanks. :)

[jandl100]

It's not one of those Red Wine battery powered power amps, is it?

I've been seriously un-impressed with those. The get up & go had gotten up & gone. A very dynamically bland presentation, even with high efficiency speakers.

Some folks love them - but they seem musically pointless to me. :zzz:

[Lord Soth]

It's not one of those Red Wine battery powered power amps, is it?

I've been seriously un-impressed with those. The get up & go had gotten up & gone. A very dynamically bland presentation, even with high efficiency speakers.

Some folks love them - but they seem musically pointless to me. :zzz:

Hi,

Which amps, in your opinion, are more dynamic than the RWA amps then?

Thanks.

[jandl100]

Perhaps a bit more info is required for such negative comments ....

I'm trying to recall which RW amps I have heard - ah yes, just checked - it's the Signature 70.2 monoblocks. http://redwineaudio.com/components/signature_702 Both before and after a recent battery power pack upgrade. The upgrade didn't make a lot of difference to my ears - the fundamental sound of the amps remained the same.

I've heard them in 3 systems ...
- with very hard to drive Mark & Daniels ribbon hybrids (they performed as badly as most amps did - a very difficult speaker!)
- with large Lowther-drivered speakers
- with Avantgarde Uno Nano horn hybrids.

In all the systems there was a characteristic smoothing over of low level dynamic differences, the systems sounded slow and, well, 'drab' to my ears.
My "One Word Review" to try and summarise the sound would be drab.

Substituting any other decent amp (decent according to my ears, of course!) resolved this problem. At the most recent audition, that amp was a CR Developments Romulus 40wpc valve/tube amp. Night & day, it really was. Used, the Romulus amp cost me £700.

Based on my experiences, there are many many amps which don't have the RW's dynamic issues.
Personally I simply couldn't live with them. PEMs - Pizzaz Extraction Machines.
I know that my views are shared by others that have heard the amps.

[John]

Looking at the specs of your speakers you need an amp with a bit of power SETS are unlikely to be a good match with them if you want dynamics
Tell us about yhour budget and what you want to achieve

[sq225917]

Ask browllm over the wam he owned a set for ages.

[Lord Soth]

Looking at the specs of your speakers you need an amp with a bit of power SETS are unlikely to be a good match with them if you want dynamics
Tell us about yhour budget and what you want to achieve

Hi John,

Basically I wish to get an amp with the magical SET midrange sweetness.

My current speakers are quite easy to drive (88db) with Tube amps.

I used to have a 20W per channel Tube Push Pull Neuhaus Labs T2 amp which was never turned up to >1/3rd of the volume knob.

So 8W per channel are ok with me.

I'm currently using a cheapo Yarland SET tube amp which I estimate is driven at about 7W. I never turn it to the max coz' at 8W, the distortion is 5%. This has the SET EL34 midrange magic I am accustomed to.

As for budget, I've decided to get a rather serious Tube Amp for my main listening. I'm willing to spend around 2000Pounds or (3000US$).

I came across various online reviews stating that the RWA amps were as good as SET amps. Hence it piqued my interest. But I am not one who simply treats online reviews as Gospel truth, hence I wanted to elicit the views of those who have actually compared RWA amps vs SET amps.

[Lord Soth]

Based on my experiences, there are many many amps which don't have the RW's dynamic issues.
Personally I simply couldn't live with them. PEMs - Pizzaz Extraction Machines.
I know that my views are shared by others that have heard the amps.

Dear Jerry,

Thanks for sharing your indepth experience.

BTW, I posed this question on other Tube amp forums and got a similar response, it seems that RWA transistorised amps still can't compete against SET amps.

Most likely I shall stick to an SET tube amp then.

Cheers!

:cool:

[lurcher]

I'm currently using a cheapo Yarland SET tube amp which I estimate is driven at about 7W. I never turn it to the max coz' at 8W, the distortion is 5%. This has the SET EL34 midrange magic I am accustomed to.


If you are driving a 8W set to 7W you will be getting a lot of distortion,you will be missing a lot of what a good SET can do. If you need 7W, I would aim at more like 20W from a SET at least. That puts you in gm70/845/211 land.

[John]

Totally agree with Nick you need to aim a bit higher in watts to really get the best out of it with your speakers

[jandl100]

Dear Jerry,

Thanks for sharing your indepth experience.

BTW, I posed this question on other Tube amp forums and got a similar response, it seems that RWA transistorised amps still can't compete against SET amps.

Most likely I shall stick to an SET tube amp then.

Cheers!


Yes, I suspect that is best.

In a way I can hear where the reviews that compare the RWA amps (or many class D amps, for that matter) with valve amps are coming from.

There is a naturalness to the tonality of some class D amps that reminds a lot of people of a good sounding valve amp .... but I suspect that the battery powered obsession (or Unique Selling Point, depending on your viewpoint!) of RWA is their downfall. The other battery-powered power amp I have heard also had issues with tracking the low-level dynamics of music and was a very boring listen.