Phonostage suggestions please

[doodoos]

Have upgraded my old Rega 3 to a Clearaudio Innovation/PhantomII/Delos with a minimax phono stage which has 2 inputs handy for the RB300/corus which is also mounted on the TT. However, the Minimax hums a bit from one channel. The transformer is picking something up according to the nice chap who sold me the stuff. He's going to bring round a used Rhea in the new year to see what that does.
Any other suggestions out there? The Minimax does sound good and I can live with the hum which isn't noticeable from the seating position. A Change would need to be a significant improvement as well as hum free.
May try and listen to a Trilogy which seems to be all the rage at present but any suggestions welcome + 2 inputs are helpful.:)

[Wakefield Turntables]

how bigs your wallet, you can buy a phonostage for less than a ton or over several grand and above :scratch:

[jostber]

The MiniMax certainly looks quite cool:

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/minimaxphono/strip.jpg

A review here:

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/minimaxphono/phono.html

Some tips regarding troubleshooting phono amp hum:

http://www.padrick.net/Hi-Fi/PhonoHum.htm

A fella who resolved his issue with hum in his setup with a MiniMax:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/minimax_pwr_e.html

[hifi_dave]

Tron Seven.

Makes mockery of far more expensive phonostages and is easy to site, reliable and totally silent. No frills, just sounds good.

[John]

I heard quite a lot and i consider no phonostage that has better sound per pound than the RS Samuels Nighthawk battery operated so no hum issues and you can control the settings this truly is a giant killer and I used to own a Whest 30dt and think this is eaisly it equal less than £700 you have to pay a good few 1000s to beat it

[doodoos]

The Tron is a good idea - presumably have to contact Graham for this. Guess the Nighthawk would be a punt as there's no UK distributor I think. Want to keep it under 3K really.

[hifi_dave]

Robin,
GT can give you the info but you're always welcome here for a listen - just like the good ol' days.

[stevied]

Have upgraded my old Rega 3 to a Clearaudio Innovation/PhantomII/Delos with a minimax phono stage which has 2 inputs handy for the RB300/corus which is also mounted on the TT. However, the Minimax hums a bit from one channel. The transformer is picking something up according to the nice chap who sold me the stuff. He's going to bring round a used Rhea in the new year to see what that does.
Any other suggestions out there? The Minimax does sound good and I can live with the hum which isn't noticeable from the seating position. A Change would need to be a significant improvement as well as hum free.
May try and listen to a Trilogy which seems to be all the rage at present but any suggestions welcome + 2 inputs are helpful.:)

I know a guy that uses the same turntable as you and he uses a 'Audiovalve Sunilda'

[Ali Tait]

Speak to Nick about his phono stage. See here -

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/phono-stages/331-the-mains-cables-r-us-revel-phono-amplifier.html

It's very good indeed IMHO.

[topoxforddoc]

Robin
Another vote for the TRON Seven. The whole range of TRON amplifiers is just sublime. They are expensive in absolute terms, but they offer much better value for money than most other true high end brands. GT makes a two input TRON Seven phono. Alternatively you might want to compare his TRON Seven preamp with on board phono and see how that goes against your ARC Ref 5. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
If you'd like a listen of some TRON kit, I'm just up the road in Cheltenham. Email me on topoxforddoc@btinternet.com if you'd like to come up.
Best wishes,
Charlie

[Audioman]

BTW Robin. Bath is Aquae Sulis not Aqua Sulis as in your location.

[DSJR]

I've heard the Tron 7 a few times now at you-know-where's place and only took it off my radar because of the price. If money is no issue, then I'd recommend it wholeheartedly as it really does the business in a decent vinyl setup. For the rest of us, Deco Audio in a former incarnation used to have their own £1500 approx phono stage made by Graham for them I understand. I don't know whether it's still available though...

[doodoos]

Am going to listen to a Tring, I mean Tron seven very soon :)

[topoxforddoc]

I've heard the Tron 7 a few times now at you-know-where's place and only took it off my radar because of the price. If money is no issue, then I'd recommend it wholeheartedly as it really does the business in a decent vinyl setup. For the rest of us, Deco Audio in a former incarnation used to have their own £1500 approx phono stage made by Graham for them I understand. I don't know whether it's still available though...

Unfortunately I don’t think it is. The Phonote was the predecessor of the original Seven phono stage (which has since been updated significantly). I believe that it was a limited time arrangement and now that Noteworthy is defunct, I don’t think this is made by GT for Noteworthy any more.

[MCRU]

I have a demo unit of my phono stage (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/phono-stages/331-the-mains-cables-r-us-revel-phono-amplifier.html) if you want to borrow it? Special edition valve phono stage.

[Audioman]

Unfortunately I don’t think it is. The Phonote was the predecessor of the original Seven phono stage (which has since been updated significantly). I believe that it was a limited time arrangement and now that Noteworthy is defunct, I don’t think this is made by GT for Noteworthy any more.

Noteworthy became Deco when the original business partnership folded. The Noteworthy phono disappeared around that time. I assume the Tron version is now a lot more expensive? David is the MCRU phono MM or MC or both?

[MCRU]

Noteworthy became Deco when the original business partnership folded. The Noteworthy phono disappeared around that time. I assume the Tron version is now a lot more expensive? David is the MCRU phono MM or MC or both?

the demo model is MC :)

[YNWaN]

I see that is the one designed and made by Nick Gorham (Lurcher), that I tried.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8167&highlight=valve+phonostage

[lurcher]

Yep, thats the one, though the "production" version has a different quieter power supply (active regulator), and is PCB based to allow it to survive shipping and ensure consistency.

[YNWaN]

Hmm..shame about the PCB in a way - you did a very neat job of the hard wired version - I guess it reduces costs though.

I wonder what effect the 'quieter' power supply has - interesting. Have you got any pics of what this production version looks like then - presumably it's not much like the pics in the MC R Us link.

[Audioman]

PCB v hard wired. I'd guess that the production version may sound quite different to the prototype then.

[Ali Tait]

Why?

[oceanobsession]

I have posted some pictures of nick gorhams moving coil valve phono stage,i have found that fitting NOS valves has improved its performance even more.In my opinion the sound has not changed from the demo unit
which had point to point wiring. where as the new unit has printed circuit boards which makes it more user friendly and also quieter.Also the valves are mounted in the upright position,and by removing them you can not cause any damage to other components. It sound great even better now that i have taken out the vertical play in my pioneers pl 71 tonearm , it now seems to collect more fluff on the needle ,maybe its getting
deeper into the grove, who knows but it sounds a lot better.

[lurcher]

Hmm..shame about the PCB in a way - you did a very neat job of the hard wired version - I guess it reduces costs though.


Well, if anything the good quality PCB adds to the cost, but it means I can build one in a day, and consistency is ensured. Also, the use of a ground plane helps reduce noise even more.

And as said, its far simpler to replace the valves, and there is no chance that knocking something while changing valves will cause bad things to happen.

[oceanobsession]

Speak to Nick about his phono stage. See here -

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/phono-stages/331-the-mains-cables-r-us-revel-phono-amplifier.html

It's very good indeed IMHO.

Well i have to say i'm more than happy with the sound quality of nicks phono stage,its running with a tungsol 5687 black plate d getter and two brimar
e88cc, and i can honestly say that it punches out every note.
I seem to have got a great combination of valves fitted into my phono stage now.When i first tried the tungsol it lacked bass although it had great highs.
Anyway, i swapped it out for a raytheon jrp which became a bit noisy so i put
a jan philips into place,so i thought, but i had put the tungsol back into position something has changed with this valve, maybe i did not give it chance to heat up properly but this combination of valves with nicks phono
stage is sounding wonderfull, nicks a top bloke and its money well spent IMHO.

[lurcher]

Steady now :-)

[YNWaN]

Hmm..
I feel as if I
should also post
in the style of an epic poem...

with pause for breath...

I suppose a circuit board is more expensive in terms of initial layout (ofcourseIpretendignorancebutinrealityIknowthis tobe thecase),

they are certainly quicker to 'stuff' though :).

[topoxforddoc]

Hmm..
I feel as if I
should also post
in the style of an epic poem...

with pause for breath...

I suppose a circuit board is more expensive in terms of initial layout (ofcourseIpretendignorancebutinrealityIknowthis tobe thecase),

they are certainly quicker to 'stuff' though :).

Circuit boards are also better as you can minimise signal paths, orientate them so as minimise interference and they’re easier to solder to a consistently high standard (ie fewer dry joint).

[Ali Tait]

Yes, I don't know where this common perception comes that hard-wiring is automatically better than using a PCB. Marketing bullshit I suppose...

I seriously doubt anyone could tell the difference between a hard wired and PCB version of Nick's phono soundwise assuming identical components.

[StanleyB]

Wire wrapping was preferred in the old days with valve designs. Once reason was because the solder joints could melt over time and create dry joints. No such problem with wire wrapping.

[Ali Tait]

Aye, the solder was used for a mechanical fixer rather than to make the electrical connection. Too expensive to do nowadays commercially I'd have thought.

[Audioman]

Hard wiring is still used on certain upmarket and chinese built valve amps. I would in theory expect sound to be affected by wire type and solder used. A circuit board could affect sound in terms of board and track quality. Also track length. I would have thought some judicious board design would be necessary to produce exactly the sound of the hard wired version and/or component tweaking. Maybe differences are actualy imperceptibly small in this context.

[Ali Tait]

Yes, I have a few hard wired items myself. As long as decent quality PCB's are used, I doubt there would be any audible differences IMHO. Hard wiring does make it easier to tweak though.

I suspect a lot of Chinese gear is hard wired because it saves on the cost of PCB's and labour to build by hand is very cheap rather than for any sonic reason.

[oceanobsession]

:):)
Hmm..
I feel as if I
should also post
in the style of an epic poem...

with pause for breath...

I suppose a circuit board is more expensive in terms of initial layout (ofcourseIpretendignorancebutinrealityIknowthis tobe thecase),

they are certainly quicker to 'stuff' though :).

did one not know one is a descendent of shakespeare!

[lurcher]

Yes, I have a few hard wired items myself. As long as decent quality PCB's are used, I doubt there would be any audible differences IMHO. Hard wiring does make it easier to tweak though.

I suspect a lot of Chinese gear is hard wired because it saves on the cost of PCB's and labour to build by hand is very cheap rather than for any sonic reason.

IMHO it depends on the components and the circuit. For a valve power amp the output stage being hard wired makes perfect sense, for a phono stage using 9 pin valves, PCB's make more sense if more than one is being planned. Also depends on the components. If you are using snap in caps, a PCB makes more sense, if they are screw and tags, point to point makes more sense, and so on, avoid the absolute where ever possible.

I don't know of any hard wired SS amps, no one seems to worry about that.

[DSJR]

I think DNM probably come closest to point-to-point in their amps (what a huge shame they cost so much, but that's my problem). Denis M has all but designed his boards in 3-D to try to take connections and circuit-track interaction into account. he used to get a very good sound out of his stuff, although I have no idea what it's like nowadays.

[sq225917]

Nick, check out the MPP thread in the analogue section of diyaudio, Joachim must have dead bugged 100 different phonostage variants this past year, all SS, mostly discrete.