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Wakefield Turntables
20-12-2011, 20:47
Guys,

Every Xmas I like to do a little restoration project this year its a Garrard 301 i paid £175 for. Has anyone seen a garrard 301 like this before?

Wakefield Turntables
20-12-2011, 21:00
Just a few quick pictures. I have recieved the chasis for the 301 and its in very good condition, I'll be putting the bearing in there pretty soon. You'll also see from one of the pictures a nice chunky Isotek elite screen mains cable, this will be going in instead of the piece of 30 year old crap that was attached to the 301. At the moment I'm in the process of stripping down all the idler drive and doing an inventory of whats needed. It looks like a set of new springs is needed as well as a set of new knobs and faceplates of front of the chasis. This is a job that will have to wait after Xmas :( Bewteen now and then I'll be getting the brasso out and cleaing over 30 years worth of crap away from the idler drive. There is also some damage inside of the platter where the brake has worn out it also looks like some mat black spray paint might be on the horizon to smarten this up.

WOStantonCS100
20-12-2011, 22:56
:popcorn:

I love a good restoration flick.

pure sound
20-12-2011, 23:41
Matt at Audio Grail does nice restorations. look at the ebay ad & short films to see which aspects can be addressed. I think the linkages are stripped & zinc passivated because the original cadmium plating is rather toxic.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190572236765

Alex_UK
21-12-2011, 11:23
Good luck Andrew - great to see an old 301 get a new lease of life. :)

Rare Bird
21-12-2011, 12:15
Yeh good luck, a proper turntable at last

Jonboy
21-12-2011, 18:25
Very Nice Andrew keep the pics and updates coming :)

Wakefield Turntables
21-12-2011, 20:15
Thanks for the nice comments guys. Some more info on how its going. Well today I bought some matt black paint to refurb the inside of the platter. I also fitted the bearing the chasis, nice and easy, altough I may upgrade this to the Kokomo II bearing, will have to do some research, it all depends if the things rumbles when I finally get it working again. I also took time to have a good look around the springs and rubber components. Well bugger me several of the springs have warped and the vast majority of the rubber has either crumbled or gone hard :( So on my shopping list I've added a new set of faceplates, a full set of new springs, a brake pad, new set of levers, some isolation grommets and some isolation washers. This little lot will cost about £130 but should be worth it. I also cleaned up the copper work in the 4HF switch assembly (Pics included), I'll also be resoldering this with silver solder and probably replacing the crappy instrinsic wiring with either silver or some newer better insulated copper. Right my missus is complaining so i better get lost for another night!

Wakefield Turntables
21-12-2011, 20:17
just a few more pics.

Alex_UK
21-12-2011, 23:30
Have you dismantled the bearing assembly yet, Andrew? My 401 bearing was fine, but it rumbled like a basterd, it was actually the idler wheel and inside of the platter that once cleaned up cured it - I'm a bit suspicious of the aftermarket bearings, to be honest - lots of contradictory stories out there, and provided everything is sorted on the standard one I don't think it will the the source of any rumble. I'm no expert on these matters, though - just my personal opinion/experience. :)

selfaddict
22-12-2011, 16:50
I was thinking upgrading my 401 bearing to Kokomo, but after reading that this upgrade can/will ground spindle to unusable condition, I have not had the courage. It could be that this is the reason why there is MkII Kokomo bearing kit on the market now :confused:. On the other hand there is so much wrong info circulating the web that you have to take most new info with pint of salt.

I am planning to send my 401 to Dom for a service, so I have decided not to bother with the Kokomo kit at the moment anyway. I am sure he will spot if there is any damage on the bearing what needs his attention.



Have you dismantled the bearing assembly yet, Andrew? My 401 bearing was fine, but it rumbled like a basterd, it was actually the idler wheel and inside of the platter that once cleaned up cured it - I'm a bit suspicious of the aftermarket bearings, to be honest - lots of contradictory stories out there, and provided everything is sorted on the standard one I don't think it will the the source of any rumble. I'm no expert on these matters, though - just my personal opinion/experience. :)

Wakefield Turntables
22-12-2011, 19:28
Have you dismantled the bearing assembly yet, Andrew? My 401 bearing was fine, but it rumbled like a basterd, it was actually the idler wheel and inside of the platter that once cleaned up cured it - I'm a bit suspicious of the aftermarket bearings, to be honest - lots of contradictory stories out there, and provided everything is sorted on the standard one I don't think it will the the source of any rumble. I'm no expert on these matters, though - just my personal opinion/experience. :)

Not yet! The bearing appears to be ok, I'll be replacing the felt wool and I'll probably be degreasing and re-oiling the thing shortly. My 301 did rumble so I presume either the bearing needed a strip, clean and relube or the idler wheel is buggered. I had a look at it last night and it looks pretty straight, it's not hardened so I'll be leaving this alone for the time being. I'll be dismantling all the metal work tonight/tomorrow so I can clean it ready for reassembly. The motor will be the biggest bit for me. I'll be leaving this till last :eek: Thanks guys for the comments re kokomo, I'm doing the refurb on a budget as my main deck is the 1210 and I have big plans for the little beasty next year. I may just leave the bearing alone and see how it performs after the overhaul! I'll try and get some more pix up tonight if I get time. :cool:

Dominic Harper
22-12-2011, 23:10
Hi Guys, just a note. I haven't actually heard rumble on any garrads. However, Dom always plays them after he has serviced them. But I can confirm his own deck has not had a full service as yet, and the guys that came to the bakeoff stated that they could not hear any rumble either. So, my opinion would be that garrards properly serviced do not rumble. I have yet to hear one that does.

Cheers
Natalie

Wakefield Turntables
23-12-2011, 13:48
Just a couple of quick questions -

1. Can anyone recommend decent copper cabling for a rewire of the 301?

2. Is there any specific grease or oil that is especially recommended for the 301?

3. Any specific recommendations for tonearms, I'm looking for synergy between the deck and the tonearm. I have 2 spare to play with, a SME 3009 (improved), and a Michelle Technoarm. I maybe moving over my Audiotechnica cartridge onto the 301 when I get my Ortofon black next year.

Andy

Wakefield Turntables
23-12-2011, 17:14
More photographs! Today the 301 has been completely dissembled. The motor unit has been opened upon and there appears to be some severe wear and tear on the rotor spindle assembly look knackered :doh: I think I have decided to leave the wiring alone I dont think I want to mess around with the stator Assembly. Whilst messing around with the motor today I removed all the top and bottom springs and also the rubber sleeves, these were all knackered but I have ordered a new set of both. The earthing lead was completely shot so I'll probably get the soldering iron out and make a new one and I'll probably resolder the switch lead assembly and the contact springs as well as removing and resoldering any older solder with new Silver solder. I have removed all the gromets as these had hardened, again I have ordered new. so far things appear to be going ok, I have one or two costly parts to buy but all in all I'm pretty happy with the way things are going.:cool:

Alex_UK
23-12-2011, 20:43
Hats off to you for doing the motor (I knew my 401 was "low miles" so bottled it!) The oil I went for was Dom's own - http://northwestanalogue.weebly.com/shop.html - but is your 301 a "grease bearing" version? Dom may be best to advise here.

Wakefield Turntables
24-12-2011, 10:17
Hats off to you for doing the motor (I knew my 401 was "low miles" so bottled it!) The oil I went for was Dom's own - http://northwestanalogue.weebly.com/shop.html - but is your 301 a "grease bearing" version? Dom may be best to advise here.

Mines an oil bearing version. The rotor spindle assembly is ok, a couple of quick posts from Dom cleared things up, thanks mate! I'm just in the process of cleaning all the parts up, getting ready of the grunge from the parts etc. I've not taken out the bearing in the motor as I dont really want to be messing around drilling out 4 rivets. It looks to be in fine fettle but if things dont quite go to plan I can always strip it down again now I know how the thing works. ;)Today will be spent making some mounting nuts for the plinth, wait till you see a photo of the lump of stone I have for the plinth. Its sitting in my back garden at this moment in time. :lol:

Wakefield Turntables
26-12-2011, 19:26
Another day and another update. Done quite a lot today. The platter has been repainted internally and externally (which i may do again as i'm not happy with the finish). The strobe marking on the periphery of the platter have been polished. Prolly 1st time ever :lol: The bearing had a good degrease and poilsh with good old brasso today. Even the nuts and bolts got a cleaning. Today I also managed to get some measurements in for the plinth (see photo included). The stone I have may be large enough for a 12" arm :eyebrows:, its 75mm thick :eek: and I have no idea how much it weighs. I'll have to start and look for a workshop that can work with it. I also managed to make some custom 85mm threads so i can mount the chasis on the plinth. Over the next few days I'll be looking for some small nuts and bolts for the faceplates on the plinth. I'm not going to rivet these as I dont have the gear and I dont want to spend the money on rivets and a river gun (well I might, depends on how expenisve they are??). I think the next stage will be to clean and rebuild the motor unit and maybe some resoldering;) OK, enough for today hope you enjoy the pix.

Wakefield Turntables
26-12-2011, 19:31
just a few more pictures of the cleaned up bearing unit and one or two showing the platter mounted on the 301 and another showing the nicely cleaned up strobe markings. I'll be getting an ultrasonic cleaner in a few days some all the nuts, bolts, and washer will be getting a clean. Yep I intend to really go to town with this one...... :cool:

DSJR
26-12-2011, 19:50
Lovely :)

selfaddict
26-12-2011, 21:03
It is all coming nicely together and looking great.

Alex_UK
27-12-2011, 19:01
Top work! Was everything ok with the spindle & thrust pad when you dismantled the bearing Andrew?

Wakefield Turntables
27-12-2011, 19:38
Lovely :)


It is all coming nicely together and looking great.

Thanks guys the nice comments keep me plugging away!


Top work! Was everything ok with the spindle & thrust pad when you dismantled the bearing Andrew?

They appear to be ok, I spun the platter briefly after rebuilding and it kept rotating for 45 seconds. Altough this does worry me a little as I have read reports of the kokomo upgrades being able to keep the platter spinning for upto 2 minutes :scratch: In my defence I didn't reoil the thust pad or the spindle so it's probably using the last remaining oil on the spindle shaft and thrust pad surface. I'll be getting some photo's organised and posted so other members can assess if the thrust pad looks like it needs replacing.

Today has been about getting some of the motor housing cleaned. Today saw the motor clips getting cleaned and then snapping most of the clips holding them in place, these were quite rusty some even snapping with the slighest of prods. The motor pulley got cleaned and also the speed disc, both cleaning up like new pennies. I decided to leave the small screws alone as I did not want to loose any of these, they are absolutely tiny! I'll be turning my attention to the top and bottom motor cover this week when I'll be giving them a respray later in the week. I have a small problem in that I still have a motor clip stuck in place so it looks like good old WD40 might have to come out. The next big thing to clean is the motor yoke, today it got 45 minutes cleaing and it still didn't look much better even after getting through several rags. It sure looks like this will need several days of intensive cleaing to get it upto scratch. Photo's will follow in next few days. I'm at work tomorrow which is going to slow things down.

The stripping and cleaning of the 301 is the easy bit. Researching is quite hard as there are many conflicting pieces of advice :(:( However I'll be shitting myself when I have to put the bloody thing back together again :eek:

Wakefield Turntables
29-12-2011, 19:40
More cleaning today with the 301. Today the motor casing got resprayed and the bearing got cleaned out, I have not examined it yet, I dont intend stripping it out so its just going to get a fresh oil change and hopefully that should be it for another 45 years! The magnet assembly on the motor housing case needs cleaning but thats another job for another day. I finally managed to get the last spring pin removed with a little gentle tap from a panel pin hammer ;) The motor yoke has had three days of polishing so I think its as good as it gets I could do more but I need to spend some time on the other bits of the 301. I'm hoping that the spare parts that I ordered arrive soon as I want to get the motor unit assembled before the new year.

sq225917
29-12-2011, 21:13
Andrew, just because a bearing spins for a long time doesn't mean it's better than a bearing which comes to a stop sooner. You could fill two bearings with different viscosities of oil and one will stop before the other, they will both be just as quiet. Some brands favour bearings that aren't particularly free running, as long as they remain smooth across a full rotation that's what counts.

I don't know the Kokomo spindle pad, but if you took two spindle pads that both had exactly the same contact point with the bearing spindle, but one of them was essentially flat and the other had a pronounced dome, the one with the dome would spin for longer due to lower viscous coupling. Some people may mistakenly assume this = reduced drag, and conclude that = reduced noise, this isn't the case, viscous drag is essentially silent.

So don't stress a bearing that stops quickly, it can be beneficial to speed stability.

Dominic Harper
29-12-2011, 21:18
Andrew, if at all posible please get rid of the Kokomo bearing. It will, if it has not already, permanently damage the bearing spindle. The ball used is harder than the spindle. This will cause the spindle to wear and cause more friction against the ball. These have to be the worst of worst so called upgrades for Garrards!

You mention the motor has had 3 days of polishing. What part have you been polishing. You may have done more harm than good.

Please please ring me before you do any more work.

chelsea
29-12-2011, 21:33
Have been lucky to hear a restored audio grail 301 recently and have to say these decks are well worth looking after.

Wakefield Turntables
30-12-2011, 17:55
Andrew, just because a bearing spins for a long time doesn't mean it's better than a bearing which comes to a stop sooner. You could fill two bearings with different viscosities of oil and one will stop before the other, they will both be just as quiet. Some brands favour bearings that aren't particularly free running, as long as they remain smooth across a full rotation that's what counts.

I don't know the Kokomo spindle pad, but if you took two spindle pads that both had exactly the same contact point with the bearing spindle, but one of them was essentially flat and the other had a pronounced dome, the one with the dome would spin for longer due to lower viscous coupling. Some people may mistakenly assume this = reduced drag, and conclude that = reduced noise, this isn't the case, viscous drag is essentially silent.

So don't stress a bearing that stops quickly, it can be beneficial to speed stability.

No worries mate, I'm just commenting on some remarks made on another forum regards the spin time of the kokomo baring, I'm keeping mine stock altough it will need some oiling.


Andrew, if at all posible please get rid of the Kokomo bearing. It will, if it has not already, permanently damage the bearing spindle. The ball used is harder than the spindle. This will cause the spindle to wear and cause more friction against the ball. These have to be the worst of worst so called upgrades for Garrards!

You mention the motor has had 3 days of polishing. What part have you been polishing. You may have done more harm than good.

Please please ring me before you do any more work.

Dominic, I still have the stock baring and it's stopping for the time being. I'm a 1210 freak really but the 301 has been an interesting side project really whilst I wait for my next set of upgrades for the techie. I've polished the motor Yoke over the last 3 days, I havent spent the entire last three days polishing it, blimey i'd have a very shiney piece of metal indeed. :lol: All other parts of the motor have not been touched. As mentioned I resprayed the external motor casing and I removed some gunk from the top and bottom bearing covers, this has been external grease. I have also removed the cadmium from the various levers. I'm stuck at the moment anyway cos I need some more spare parts. Please PM me your number and we'll have a chat ;)



Have been lucky to hear a restored audio grail 301 recently and have to say these decks are well worth looking after.

Have you seen the prices that they sell for, try £3K for a 301?? Which I must say is probably worth the money when you consider how far they go when restoring. I've spent about 20 hours so far on the deck and another 10 studying the various forums and documents on the dam thing and I'm still nowhere near finishing it. Altough I will be hopefully re-assembling the motor unit over the next few days.

Wakefield Turntables
07-01-2012, 21:22
Been a while but finally some spares arrived for the 301. So this evening installed a new on/off switch and speed range switches, I'll be using a "make-do" speed adjustment knob which should be ok until I source the real thing. I'm now waiting for faceplates which I'll rivet on at some stage. I'll be t-cutting and polishing the interior and exterior of the chasis whilst its in its stripped down state. I have installed a new felt oil pad. The engine yolk has been partially rebuilt with new suspension springs and spring rubbers, the "e" clips were recycled but some were replaced with Maplins equivalent. A new brake pad has been installed. I'm awaitin some oil from Dom at Northwest Audio, when this arrives the motor will be re-oiled and greased where appropiate, then installed in the motor yolk. The rest of this weekend will be spent cleaning and polishing the remaining levers and metalwork under the chasis :(

WOStantonCS100
09-01-2012, 06:59
:popcorn:

Wakefield Turntables
09-01-2012, 19:46
More work done on the 301 today. The motor unit has been rebuilt and installed in its Yolk. Some of the wiring has been rewired. The thing is beginning to look like a 301! The platter now spins freely and silently :D More cleaning over the next few days and then I should be able to start and put some of the levers in place! The faceplates will not be ready until the end of January:( but I'm sure there will be plenty to do on the 301 over the next few weeks, like making a plinth and the rebuilding an SME 3009 :eek:

Alex_UK
09-01-2012, 23:56
Looks like you are doing a great job Andrew. The thing is (and please don't take this personally Dom!) that to get this sort of level of care and attention is only really viable as a labour of love unless you have seriously deep pockets - and how much more satisfying is it to restore it yourself than write a cheque? Good stuff - good luck putting all the levers back together though! :eek:

Dominic Harper
10-01-2012, 00:28
Hi Alex, I agree. This is the kind of attention I spend on Garrard servicing. I am happy to advise anyone who wishes to have a go at doing this themselves. I have put quite a few tips on Garrardmatters regarding DIY servicing.

nat8808
10-01-2012, 12:34
Matt at Audio Grail does nice restorations. look at the ebay ad & short films to see which aspects can be addressed. I think the linkages are stripped & zinc passivated because the original cadmium plating is rather toxic.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190572236765

Oh....

Ive been cleaning one up too (taking me a little while) and I didn't know they were cadmium plated... Err, comes off rather easily too.

Mine was coated in nicotine which actually protects quite well when thick and sticky! :)

Wakefield Turntables
10-01-2012, 14:45
Cadmium is very easily removed with Brasso but wear protective gloves. The chasis paintwork cleans up nicely with white T-cut this can be improved further with using a finishing polish but its dependent upon if you have the time, money or inclination. If you intend cleaning the Yoke down for the motor I would invest £8 and buy some mat grey paint and simply respray it, I did this with the motor casing and it looks very good! I'll be doing more work on the beast tonight!

Wakefield Turntables
10-01-2012, 20:44
Had a delve in the attic today and managed to get out my old SME 3009 this is going on the 301. Its dosen't look to be in bad nick, pity the same cant be said for the RCA leads, check out the oxidation! It also looks like I have a Shure cartridge which is worth keeping so this will be used, saving more money! I've added a copy of piccies showing the 3009 and the leads sitting on top of my Radford amp which will be the amp of choice for the 301 when its finished!

PS And yes that is a Vectrex games console behind the SME 3009!

DSJR
10-01-2012, 21:14
If you decide to go for new wiring arrangements on the SME and don't need the four-pin plug on the end of the cables, please could you give me first refusal, as I have a four pin socket on my arm and no cables (I'm happy to make up the leads, I just need the plug).

Thanks..... Dave

Wakefield Turntables
11-01-2012, 20:26
Sure no worries but to be honest I'm doing the project on the cheap so I can save some pennies for some rather special upgrades for my 1210 including some new reference grade power cables I'm making up :eyebrows:

Wakefield Turntables
15-01-2012, 20:15
Been a while since I posted on this. I have T-Cut the chasis which got rid of lots of blemishes. Slightly modifed an isotek elite power cable to replace the 60 year old piece of flex that had been on the deck. Just finishing off some more cleaning of the levers and should have some fitted in next day or so. I also think i have sourced a central speed control knob! No pics as camera flat as a fart. Will post some pics tomorrow. :cool:

Wakefield Turntables
18-01-2012, 20:40
Been slacking lately! Have now rebuilt the intermediate wheel assembly (phew), no spare sparts left over! This has now been mounted onto the chasis and its looking a but more like a 301. I have fitted new power lead, screened from the bloody bif magnet in the motor assembly. The chasis has had blemishes removed and now looks clean after being t-cut to within an inch of its life. I've just got the levers to fit which I'm going to try and finish this weekend. I have sourced a variable speed knob :eek:, so by February we shoud have the faceplates mounted and the 301 should be more or less finished. I just have to test it :eek: A few pictures included.

Dominic Harper
18-01-2012, 21:45
Hi Andrew. That mains lead is way too heavy and will drag at the motor suspension making it noisy as hell. better to have single insulated wires running to an IEC socket on the plinth.

Barry
19-01-2012, 00:33
Agreed! The motor on both the 301 and 401 had very good cast iron shields.

By the looks of things, that clumbersome mains lead will, by virtue of its weight, twist the motor slightly on its mounting, leading to excessive wear of the idler wheel.

It would be best Andrew, to do as Dominic suggests; if you don't want to terminate the single wires in an IEC mains socket, use a two-way 'chocolate block' connector conveniently mounted on the chassis of the turntable. This is the arrangement used on the Thorens 124 turntable.

Regards

Wakefield Turntables
19-01-2012, 19:39
Thanks guys, will change the lead when I get time, tonight its the levers. I'll be making a plinth from a huge piece of stone stored in my garage I dont think I want to terminate to a IEC, its just another component in the chain. I'll probably connect the new power lead to the underside of the stone plinth so it dosent pull on the motor. Will post some more pictures over next few days.

Barry
19-01-2012, 19:59
Thanks guys, will change the lead when I get time, tonight its the levers. I'll be making a plinth from a huge piece of stone stored in my garage I dont think I want to terminate to a IEC, its just another component in the chain. I'll probably connect the new power lead to the underside of the stone plinth so it dosen't pull on the motor. Will post some more pictures over next few days.

That's better, but I'm still a little concerned the stiff mains cable will tend to 'short out' the motor suspension, especially as you intend to connect the power lead to your new stone plinth.

Or by 'connect', do you mean an electrical connection to short lengths of a more flexible wires, and thence to the motor?

I should add that I admire your commitment and compliment your hard work; the deck looks as though it is shaping up very nicely!

Regards

Wakefield Turntables
19-01-2012, 20:07
Or by 'connect', do you mean an electrical connection to short lengths of a more flexible wires, and thence to the motor?

I should add that I admire your commitment and compliment your hard work; the deck looks as though it is shaping up very nicely!

Regards

Thats exactly what I'll be doing. Thanks for the nice comments I just do a bit each night in the knowledge it will be finished one day! ;)

Wakefield Turntables
20-01-2012, 22:09
Another day and the 301 is nearing completion! Today fitted some levers, removed the shielded power cable as instructed, will seek another one out tomorrow. Still waiting the faceplates these need rivotted into place. The trigger lever also need some attention. I've not fitted any springs yet as I dont want to damage them so I'm waiting until the faceplates and trigger lever are sorted. I seems to have a shed load of washers, I'm going to have to read the 301's manual and refit them. Only lever left now is the variable speed lever. No point in fitting this until the knob turns up! Just a couple of photos tonight. Toodle pip!

Wakefield Turntables
16-02-2012, 18:00
blimey its been a month since I last updated this! Well my 301 now has some face plates rivetted into place and we now have a proper variable speed selector. The 301 is about 85% complete. There are still some problems with the on/off levers. I need to sit a noise supressor (which I have) and a power lead. These are all small jobs which I'll do over this week. I still need a few small parts but I'm not quite sure which they are :scratch: I'm gonna have to carefully go through the manual and make sure everything is in the correct place. I've included a new pic of the 301 (sorry if its a bit crap) ;)

Wakefield Turntables
01-09-2012, 16:20
WOW, nearly 7 months since I updated this. The 301 is now at Dominic's place for a full fettle and to finish off the bits I couldn't! I have no idea how long this will take but I should have a nice new plinth waiting for when I get back. A 35kg monster that's going to be designed to take 9 and 12" tonearms. I may even pay for a new bearing at some point.

Wakefield Turntables
27-09-2012, 16:54
the 301 has had a slight upgrade in the form of a new tonearm, it can be seen here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=365978#post365978 :eyebrows: Now just waiting for the 301 and the plinth and we are away! I have a crappy ortfon MM strapped to the 3012 at the moment but this will change, I'm not quite sure what will be going on the 3012 but it should be something nice! :cool:

Wakefield Turntables
09-10-2012, 21:41
The 301 has now been fully restored and fettled by myself but mainly NWA (thanks DOM), I should be getting it in the next few days, photo's to follow!

AlfaGTV
10-10-2012, 13:03
:popcorn:
/Mike

WOStantonCS100
11-10-2012, 21:52
It's gonna be :partytime: when you finish. Then you just have to figure what record to play first when you get it back.

Wakefield Turntables
11-10-2012, 22:10
The 301 will also be living with a SME 3012. My SME 3012 is also being fettled by J7 at Audio Origami. You'll be pleased to know that there isnt an ounce of silver in this system, its an all copper affair. Unlike the 1210 setup of pure silver cabling etc. I'll be on the look out for some decent speaker cable, and maybe some new valve amps :eyebrows:

Wakefield Turntables
18-10-2012, 15:41
:yay: it's coming home tomorrow, doms finished the bits I couldn't do. Pics to follow in next few days :cool:

Tarzan
18-10-2012, 16:53
:popcorn:

Audio Al
18-10-2012, 17:28
Now I'm getting all excited as well :lol:

Wakefield Turntables
20-10-2012, 11:45
It's arrived today, will post some pics when I drag it home. :cool:

Wakefield Turntables
21-10-2012, 20:53
OK, the SME 3012 has been fully fettled and restored, heres whats been done

strip and clean both knife edge and horizontal bearings
strip and refill arm cue with silicon
replace rear stub rubbers x 2 rebuild and check
clean arm tube and arm pillar area from oxidised marks
rewire arm tube with cardas 33ga ofc coper litz
fit extra cardas gold 5 pin base detachable connector

Quite a lot :stalks:

The 301 is now sitting on my bedroom floor from Northwest analouge, I fitted a power lead today. It works a treat and is silent as death :eek:

I await my koetsu black. I will be making a temporary plinth until I get my stone one made. Then I'll have to make a custom rack (maybe next year!).

Wakefield Turntables
23-10-2012, 20:00
ok, here is the first pictures of the 301 and the SME 3012 back from Northwest analouge and audio origami. Not much to look at but I intend mounting them in a temporary plinth by the end of the week. :eyebrows:

AlfaGTV
23-10-2012, 20:27
Looks to be beautifully restored to mint cond! I'm sure youre kind of eager to hear it now, aren't you? :D
Looking forward to following the tt's path to glory!
Regards /Mike

chelsea
23-10-2012, 20:35
Where does the earth lead go to from the bottom of the deck?
Looks good.

Wakefield Turntables
24-10-2012, 07:44
Looks to be beautifully restored to mint cond! I'm sure youre kind of eager to hear it now, aren't you? :D
Looking forward to following the tt's path to glory!
Regards /Mike

Yep, I have to wait a little longer for a few more bits. I need a 10mm spacer but I can make one of these. The Koetsu black is being shipped from the USA and I think I need to buy a new counter weight for the 3012. But these are all small things :)




Where does the earth lead go to from the bottom of the deck?
Looks good.

Ground lead goes nowhere at the moment it's just there if a need it, Dom out it on just in case I didn't have one floating around.

Wakefield Turntables
13-12-2012, 20:13
Just over one year later and I have some pics of the finished 301. I have a couple of very minor things to sort out like a ground lead and getting the 3012 aligned properly but it works and place a nice toon! The plinth you see is temporary and will be replaced next year with a solid sandstone plinth. I'm in the process of getting the stone cut and marked up for next year, so I guess we should have more pics next year! I've included a picture of what I had to start with and the finished product. The 301 had sat in a garage for 3 years before I started work on it.

Wakefield Turntables
29-01-2013, 20:44
Very slight update. The 3012 is now sporting a new head shell and some lovely gold plated cartridge leads which replace the old SME one which had become heavily oxidised over the last 25 years. I really must get that sandstone plinth sorted!

WOStantonCS100
29-01-2013, 21:59
Just over one year later and I have some pics of the finished 301. I have a couple of very minor things to sort out like a ground lead and getting the 3012 aligned properly but it works and place a nice toon! The plinth you see is temporary and will be replaced next year with a solid sandstone plinth. I'm in the process of getting the stone cut and marked up for next year, so I guess we should have more pics next year! I've included a picture of what I had to start with and the finished product. The 301 had sat in a garage for 3 years before I started work on it.

What kind of platter mat is that?

Wakefield Turntables
30-01-2013, 08:58
It's one I specially designed for the 301. I may start selling them at some point in the year, are you interested in trying one out?

Wakefield Turntables
29-03-2013, 20:45
Not updated for a while but next week I have an appointment with a local stone mason to get the plinth made:eyebrows. I have 100kg of sandstone to play with so I can have either a single tier system or a double tier system. No that really is a heavy mass design!!!!

Wakefield Turntables
26-09-2013, 18:10
Right, this project is nearly finished. New Koetsu is coming next week. A new plinth has been designed and should be here in 2-3 weeks! There is also a new record puck being made. This then should finish this deck.

walpurgis
26-09-2013, 18:33
Good project Andrew. It'll be nice to see what the final result is. It should sound pretty damn good!

Wakefield Turntables
27-09-2013, 10:06
Thanks. TBH I've been really lazy with this over last 6 months. I have a Denon 103 strapped to it at the moment and even though the 301 is plonked into a rough n ready plinth it sounds bloody good. I'm also going to be using a SUT, I'm thing something from choir audio :eyebrows:

Wakefield Turntables
07-10-2013, 10:02
Last pieces of the jigsaw now nearly arrived. Koetsu is now back and being broken in. The plinth is being designed as we speak and I have updated the strength of my rack to hold the plinth which should be quite heavy, exact weight is not known but will easily tip 45kg:eek:

sq225917
07-10-2013, 14:11
Nice, really looking forward to seeing this complete. Who's the plinth by, Bob or Russ?

Wakefield Turntables
07-10-2013, 14:35
Nice, really looking forward to seeing this complete. Who's the plinth by, Bob or Russ?

The plinth is my own design.

Wakefield Turntables
07-10-2013, 14:43
The next thing for the 301 will be extensive listening tests with the new plinth to determine its sonic characteristics, I think a good couple of months should do the trick then it's bearing and platter upgrades!

sq225917
07-10-2013, 17:50
The plinth is my own design.


Ah, double cool, nothing like a bit of tinkering.

Wakefield Turntables
16-11-2013, 18:56
I tried the 301 in a sandstone plinth and hated it. I have now ordered a lovely birchply plinth, 90mm in thickness especially for the SME 3012 :eyebrows: I've heard a coupe of 301's in slate and I can honestly say that I have not been that impressed. To me birch play sounds best. It's been nearly 2 years since I started this project and it's very very nearly finished! :eek:

Thing Fish
16-11-2013, 22:32
Great stuff. Nearly there then...:)

Wakefield Turntables
17-11-2013, 11:10
Yeah. I'm happy with what I've got now, the actual set that the 301 lives in can be seen in my signature. I will probably at some point get a replacement bearing maybe a redbeard or a NWA but only if they come up on eBay. I should be posting some pics in next few weeks. :)

Wakefield Turntables
07-12-2013, 17:44
lovely new 90mm birch ply plinth arrived from Moldovia yesterday but the silly bugger failed to drill 4 90mm holes for my SME armboard :steam: So, I've ordered a 3mm 106mm (length) drill bit to finish the work off. Additionally, I have had to make x4 100mm 3mm bolts, yep 100mm M3 bolts are quite hard to come by so I ordered the various bits of eBay (about £15) to put these togther, I also ordered some extra wide washers and wing nuts. These little bits and pieces should be here maybe next week and then its just a case of assembling the thing and its 99% done. I'm thinking either some squash balls or some spikes for the plinth. Pictures when everything is finished.

AlfaGTV
07-12-2013, 17:49
Excellent! Looking forward to some piccies!
I didn't understand though? Did the carpenter fail to drill the mounting holes for the SME?
Or was it the elongated hole for the bottom of the tone arm?
Regards Mike

Wakefield Turntables
07-12-2013, 19:07
Excellent! Looking forward to some piccies!
I didn't understand though? Did the carpenter fail to drill the mounting holes for the SME?
Or was it the elongated hole for the bottom of the tone arm?
Regards Mike

He failed to drill the mounting holes. Its no biggy and should take 30 seconds to rectify.

Wakefield Turntables
11-12-2013, 21:09
99.9% finished.

11194

Just some mounting nuts to finish off, cartridge to align and some spikes to make for the plinth and its done. It's going to be integrated into my valve system and will play classical, jazz, and the like.

Marco
11-12-2013, 21:14
That looks fab, Andy. If all the work has been successful, be prepared for the possible shock of preferring the 301 to your Techy and moving it into your main system... When you 'tune into' what a good idler T/T does well (especially with that superb vintage SME arm), there is often no going back ;)

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
12-12-2013, 08:43
That looks fab, Andy. If all the work has been successful, be prepared for the possible shock of preferring the 301 to your Techy and moving it into your main system... When you 'tune into' what a good idler T/T does well (especially with that superb vintage SME arm), there is often no going back ;)

Marco.

Thanks. Some vinyl spinning duties have already been transferred to the 301 mainly classical and jazz, the 1210 performs equally as well but purely for sentimental reasons I think jazz, vocal, strings etc sound better through valves. The 301 won't be my main deck, that's the 1210. I guess the only thing left now to do on the 301 are little tweaks like platter mats, bearings etc.

Marco
12-12-2013, 09:19
No worries, Andy. It's nice to have two quality T/Ts to play with :)

Dunno how it will work on a 301, but for mats, I can thoroughly recommend the Clearaudio Harmo-nicer (which is a superb impedance match with vinyl), especially used in conjunction with an Achromat. This combo works a treat on the Techy, as one mat compliments the other, to superb sonic effect.

Marco.

Beobloke
12-12-2013, 10:11
I have to say I once spent far longer than was good for me mucking about with mats on my own 301. I tried glass, cork, rubber, felt, leather, SDS and god knows how many others, plus various combinations of them. After many hours of faffing around, I came to the conclusion that the best-sounding mat was.................................the original rubber Garrard one!

That said, the Funk Achromat did offer some subtle midrange advantages but at the expense of bass grunt. Consequently, I use the Garrard mat about 95% of the time and swap it for the Achromat every now and then as required - mainly when playing classical.

As to bearings, this is a whole other avenue of anguish, frustration and possible damage to parts of the deck. If your bearing looks good, spins sweetly and you don't suffer from rumble, I'd leave it alone.

Oh, and by the way, nice job - looks fab!

take5
12-12-2013, 10:12
99.9% finished.

11194

Just some mounting nuts to finish off, cartridge to align and some spikes to make for the plinth and its done. It's going to be integrated into my valve system and will play classical, jazz, and the like.

That looks fantastic.

A few of those " Moldova" plinths have been bought by Wammers, and they are great value.
However, those ones didnt have your finish. Did they do that veneer before sending it, or is it something that you did here?

I love the dark finish, especially with the silver arm. I have just that with my 401. Macassar Ebony plinth by R. Collinson, with an SME 3012.

Nice one, it looks really beautiful.

Wakefield Turntables
12-12-2013, 10:48
No worries, Andy. It's nice to have two quality T/Ts to play with :)

Dunno how it will work on a 301, but for mats, I can thoroughly recommend the Clearaudio Harmo-nicer (which is a superb impedance match with vinyl), especially used in conjunction with an Achromat. This combo works a treat on the Techy, as one mat compliments the other, to superb sonic effect.

Marco.

I had a go with the achromat last night and I didn't like what I was hearing. I think it's going to be a case of sticking with what I've got or trying the original rubber mat.


I have to say I once spent far longer than was good for me mucking about with mats on my own 301. I tried glass, cork, rubber, felt, leather, SDS and god knows how many others, plus various combinations of them. After many hours of faffing around, I came to the conclusion that the best-sounding mat was.................................the original rubber Garrard one!

That said, the Funk Achromat did offer some subtle midrange advantages but at the expense of bass grunt. Consequently, I use the Garrard mat about 95% of the time and swap it for the Achromat every now and then as required - mainly when playing classical.

As to bearings, this is a whole other avenue of anguish, frustration and possible damage to parts of the deck. If your bearing looks good, spins sweetly and you don't suffer from rumble, I'd leave it alone.

Oh, and by the way, nice job - looks fab!

Thanks Adam I appreciate your nice comments and your sagely advice. The bearing has been checked out by NWA and it passed ok, it's just the lure of new bearing. I wish I could find somewhere that would supply a loaner bearing that I could borrow for a week or two, but that's easier said than done. I will take your advice about the rubber mat and have a play tonight.


That looks fantastic.

A few of those " Moldova" plinths have been bought by Wammers, and they are great value.
However, those ones didnt have your finish. Did they do that veneer before sending it, or is it something that you did here?

I love the dark finish, especially with the silver arm. I have just that with my 401. Macassar Ebony plinth by R. Collinson, with an SME 3012.

Nice one, it looks really beautiful.

The plinth what a veneer applied and the 10 coats of varnish, it took ages but was worth the wait. Thanks your nice comments.

take5
12-12-2013, 10:59
The plinth what a veneer applied and the 10 coats of varnish, it took ages but was worth the wait. Thanks your nice comments.

Just checking. Did you apply the veneer and varnish, or did they do that before sending?

thanks

Wakefield Turntables
12-12-2013, 11:55
It was all applied for me, I did no work what so ever.

AlfaGTV
12-12-2013, 12:15
Sorry for being thick, but did you order the plinth WITH veneer and varnish?
And, of course, a beautiful TT!!!!

Regrads Mike

Wakefield Turntables
12-12-2013, 13:22
Mike,

The plinth came as you see it in the picture, the guy that makes them offered me the option of various wood veneers but I choose that one. Once I told him my selection he veneered and varnished the plinth for me. So what you see is what was delivered.

Andy

Wakefield Turntables
12-12-2013, 19:11
The 301 is now firmly bolted into place and the plinth is doing what its designed to do. The deck is silent with the platter spinning and I hear virtually no noise whatsoever in between tracks. A little fine tuning with the cart and arm alignment and also finalising the decks placement should prevent the possibility of hum and bring out the best in the deck. Just listening to some Bach and it sounds excellent through my ATC's. :D

Wakefield Turntables
14-12-2013, 16:10
Another small change today, Koetsu black has now gone and is replaced with the Denon 103, I think this is a much better match for the 3012 than the Koetsu.

WOStantonCS100
21-12-2013, 05:14
Been away too long... just got caught up. It's looks sweet.

Did you give up on the mat?

Wakefield Turntables
21-12-2013, 17:10
I've found that simply using the 301 with no mat is good enough for me. I'm in the process of reviewing a wonderful new phonostage called the Paradise which I think could just be a perfect partner for the 301. Accoustic music through the paradise and the 301 is so accurate it's frightening.

Wakefield Turntables
15-01-2014, 21:21
Well. The 301 is about to undergo some tweaks. I'd like to try and dampen in and around the motor housing. Expect some pics soon!

Wakefield Turntables
09-02-2014, 17:18
The 301 will be partnered with some very nice external cross overs for my 15" MG's. :eyebrows: Now it should sound very nice indeed.

Wakefield Turntables
05-03-2014, 10:14
Been fettling and tweaking the 301. The 3012 need some soldering and I have modified the plinth with som new spikes, this certainly beats the blocks of 4x2 which sat under it previously :eyebrows:. The deck and platter are now perfectly level. Next wee tweak will be some silver cartridge tags and a new headshell and cartridge body for the denon 103. Finally MCRU should be sending me a little package with some upgrades for the mains leads going into the 301. Pictures to follow when it's all sorted. Next I will be looking at further dampening the tonearm mount and the platter.

Wakefield Turntables
15-03-2014, 16:35
The 301 is now undergoing some major upgrades. At the moment it looks like this

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1226_zpsfa650c93.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1226_zpsfa650c93.jpg.html)

The SME 3012 is now having a holiday with J7 at Audio Origami its having a lovely new IKEDA silver rewire and fettle. This will take approx. 3 weeks.

I have also been busy changing the SME mount. I have now added a 3mm sorbothane SME cutout. The idea behind this is simple. It gives the 3012 3mm additional cartridge clearence of the platter, very useful for SME arm :eyebrows: and it further stops any vibration nasties getting into the tonearm. I could have had a plinth with external tonearm mount but the price was far too high and I believe the isolation coupling should work quite well to cloth like ears.

So this is what the tonearm mounts looks like before the new sorbothane coupling

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1214_zpsaf15675d.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1214_zpsaf15675d.jpg.html)

And this is what it looks like afterwards.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1225_zpsb8623bb1.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1225_zpsb8623bb1.jpg.html)

I now have some lovely new speaked feet from eBay which now allowing levelling of the plinth in double quick time. Here is a pick of the new feet

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1200_zpse347227f.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1200_zpse347227f.jpg.html)

As you can now see the plinth is dead level

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1227_zps28327e2d.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1227_zps28327e2d.jpg.html)

I have also created some additional dampening to the mount bolts of the SME tonearm mount. These were made from spare scraps of sorbothane. Nobody can see them so I'm happy with the appearence.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1218_zps1c76eeb7.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1218_zps1c76eeb7.jpg.html)

Another eBay purchase. This is for fine tuning the Denon 103 cart which currently lives on my 3012.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1228_zps4a92725c.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1228_zps4a92725c.jpg.html)

Some more sorbothane and some atacama speaker mounts for speakers. I found these bits at the bottom of an old tool box. Again a freebie and hopefully beneficial for my Paradise phonostage

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1201_zpsabc68b64.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1201_zpsabc68b64.jpg.html)

Finally, some nice thick Belkin shielded cable from MCRU with silver plated plug and silver fuse. This will be properly mounted onto the 301 plinth so to minimise drag on the motor and PSU unit.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1215_zps3bdba3e3.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1215_zps3bdba3e3.jpg.html)

I have a few other little surprises that I intend to fit to the 301 but that is dependent upon a couple of ebay auctions. :eyebrows:

There, thats you brought upto date. It will be another month before all this is reassembled and playing. Personally, I cant wait. :)

Tim
17-03-2014, 17:33
Nice, I'm going to read thought this and nick your ideas ;)

Wakefield Turntables
17-03-2014, 17:47
If you need any help just mail me. The 301 is still being tinkered with and gives its own sonic representation of whats on vinyl. I dont think I can do much more with it other than go down the Shindo route and then it wouldnt be my 301 anymore. As mentioned earlier platter and new MC I think :eyebrows:

Wakefield Turntables
23-04-2014, 07:58
My SME 3012 has finally got back from jonnie at audio origami. I now have some toys to play with, mainly a new (to me) aluminium rebodied denon 103, the Thomas Schlick (sic) headshell, my Koetsu black, and of course the lovely ikeda rewire of the 3012. The 301 is finished for now, time to sit back and spin some toons. Pics to follow later.

Wakefield Turntables
24-04-2014, 16:37
Well after a scare the 301 decided it didnt want to play ball and would not start. A quick check revealed a loose lead. A quick email to Dom at NWA provided a solution. I would like to openly thank DOM for going the extra mile and helping out. Twas late at night when I emailed and got a picture and explanation. Once again a big thanks to Dom. The 301 sounds pretty good. I shall be testing it and putting it through its paces through my reference system and then listening through the valve system.

The Barbarian
24-04-2014, 16:55
And this is what it looks like afterwards.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1225_zpsb8623bb1.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1225_zpsb8623bb1.jpg.html)



With that soowerberfane section being pretty soft, is there much chance of appling too much pressure to one side of the mounting plate rendering it not precisely flat?

Wakefield Turntables
24-04-2014, 18:36
With that soowerberfane section being pretty soft, is there much chance of appling too much pressure to one side of the mounting plate rendering it not precisely flat?

Yeah that could happen I s'pose. It's only a little experiment TBH. I need to listen and then evaluate, it will probably come out at some point, but for the time being it's staying in place. ;)

Wakefield Turntables
27-04-2014, 19:58
12209

Latest update to the 301, a rebodied Denon 103 in a aluminium case. This was purchased from John, a member of AOS. Currently set up with Baerweld geometry via Dr. Feckart and tracking at 2.3g. I've had it setup at 2.5g and keep messing around just for fun and just to see how the thing sounds. It's a neat upgrade and I can say that all the hype of rebodied 103's is true. I should be recieving some nice little upgrades courtesy of Audiotechnica later in the week, nothing new and a couple of the AOS members already have them bolted onto their rigs. :eyebrows:

Barry
27-04-2014, 23:50
The SME 3012 arm was designed to follow the Stevenson prescription for minimal tracking error. It will be impossible for the arm to achieve both the Baerwald null-points if the SME headshell is used, as one would need to skew the cartridge in the headshell.

Wakefield Turntables
28-04-2014, 07:57
The SME 3012 arm was designed to follow the Stevenson prescription for minimal tracking error. It will be impossible for the arm to achieve both the Baerwald null-points if the SME headshell is used, as one would need to skew the cartridge in the headshell.

Well I've managed it! Just for fun I will try Stevenson as well. Fekhart can do this as well. Thanks for the heads up Barry.

NRG
28-04-2014, 08:36
If these VE figures are correct you'll be fine with Lofgren A (Baerwald)...just a slight twist of the cartridge needed and it will give lower distortion.

Edit: Barry's correct, it's a fixed hole headshell? I was assuming a slotted one...

12216

Wakefield Turntables
28-04-2014, 09:35
If these VE figures are correct you'll be fine with Lofgren A (Baerwald)...just a slight twist of the cartridge needed and it will give lower distortion.

Edit: Barry's correct, it's a fixed hole headshell? I was assuming a slotted one...

12216

I have no doubt the VE is correct but feckhart is very simple to use and you don't need to worry about columns of measurements, a quick two minutes and it's set up. Plus. Trying these different alignments means I HAVE to play lots of vinyl!!!

Wakefield Turntables
10-07-2014, 19:38
Been some time since I updated this. I have been playing with Headshells and cartridge tags and also MM carts which is something I thought I would never do. I'm now using Audiotechnica headshell and AT6106 cartridge leads alongside a Shure V15 mk3 (and VN35MR) stylus, this is all plonked in the MM stage of my Croft Micro Basic preamp :drool: WOW! I'm really gobsmacked this has to be the best MM presentation I have ever heard and TBH this is exactly the sort of sound I wanted coming from my 301. I will include some pix a little later when I get time. This presentation knocks the spots off my Denon 103 (rebodied in aluminium). Its a very lucid presentation and I would even go so far as to say that the Shure is probably the best cart I've heard on my 301. I've tried audiotechnica's, koetsu's, high end ortofon, and the denon 103 and nothing produces the 3D soundstage I'm listening to presently. In fact its the first time that the Tannoy 15" MG's have presented my with a soundstage extending significantly beyond and speaker cabs. WOW, this is excellent. I'm extremely happy. :D

Tarzan
10-07-2014, 20:08
Been some time since I updated this. I have been playing with Headshells and cartridge tags and also MM carts which is something I thought I would never do. I'm now using Audiotechnica headshell and AT6106 cartridge leads alongside a Shure V15 mk3 (and VN35MR) stylus, this is all plonked in the MM stage of my Croft Micro Basic preamp :drool: WOW! I'm really gobsmacked this has to be the best MM presentation I have ever heard and TBH this is exactly the sort of sound I wanted coming from my 301. I will include some pix a little later when I get time. This presentation knocks the spots off my Denon 103 (rebodied in aluminium). Its a very lucid presentation and I would even go so far as to say that the Shure is probably the best cart I've heard on my 301. I've tried audiotechnica's, koetsu's, high end ortofon, and the denon 103 and nothing produces the 3D soundstage I'm listening to presently. In fact its the first time that the Tannoy 15" MG's have presented my with a soundstage extending significantly beyond and speaker cabs. WOW, this is excellent. I'm extremely happy. :D


Glad you are enjoying it mate.:popcorn:

Barry
11-07-2014, 19:05
It's been ages since I last heard a Shure V15 III (think I got rid of mine in 1979). I found the ADC 10E/II and 25 cartridges to be much better, so too was the AKG P8ES.

But a Garrard 301/SME/Shure V15 is a classic combination. Glad you're enjoying it Andy! :)

The Barbarian
11-07-2014, 19:13
I sold one of my 'V15/III' early on this year, i don't use the other it's just for keeps sake, i much prefer the sound of the 'M95/HE' i must like it i keep going back to using it often enough.. I must look out for a spare NOS Styli..

spendorman
11-07-2014, 20:34
I sold one of my 'V15/III' early on this year, i don't use the other it's just for keeps sake, i much prefer the sound of the 'M95/HE' i must like it i keep going back to using it often enough.. I must look out for a spare NOS Styli..

Great cartridge the 95HE, think I said this to you years ago. I bought mine new when they first came out, quite a bit better than the 95ED. Strangely, the 95ED was not as good as the 75ED, but the 95HE ahead of both.

Wakefield Turntables
11-07-2014, 21:20
i will get a photo of this uploaded at some stage, just no time! Been listening to some John Coltrane, very nice, sounds even better after I'm mellowed out with a little single malt.... :drinking:

Tim
11-07-2014, 21:26
sounds even better after I'm mellowed out with a little single malt.... :drinking:
Everything sounds better with a single malt :)

The Barbarian
12-07-2014, 11:13
Great cartridge the 95HE, think I said this to you years ago. I bought mine new when they first came out, quite a bit better than the 95ED. Strangely, the 95ED was not as good as the 75ED, but the 95HE ahead of both.

Yeh you did Alex.. I do have a '95/ED' body i might get an 'ED' Styli compare the two..

Wakefield Turntables
12-07-2014, 14:30
I got a little time today to upload some pics of the new cart and my 301 in its setup.

OK, so here are a couple of close ups of the Shure V mk3 + VN35MR stylus with nrew Audiotechnica head shell & Ortofon cartridge tags.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1459_zps00887b4d.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1459_zps00887b4d.jpg.html)


http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1458_zps355089d2.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1458_zps355089d2.jpg.html)

The diamond on this stylus is so tiny! How does such a small thing produce such nice music?

This shows the 301 in it's "VINTAGE" setup.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/DSCN1462_zps04d77ee4.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/WAKEFIELDAUDIO/media/DSCN1462_zps04d77ee4.jpg.html)

Sometimes I have real problems picking speakers, Tannoy Monitor 15" golds with reference cross overs or fully restored one thing audio Quad ESL 57's :D

The rack also holds the 4 box Paradise phonostage, Croft micro basic and Radford STA 25.

The next stage on my 301 journey is to play with some external PSU's and see if they can raise the bar even further with regards to sonic replay!

spendorman
12-07-2014, 14:48
Yeh you did Alex.. I do have a '95/ED' body i might get an 'ED' Styli compare the two..

Not sure that I would waste money on a 95ED stylus when the HE seems so much better. Think I mentioned that the higher end Philips cartridges are very good too, similar in sound the the 95HE. Incidentally, turned on my Thorens TD124 II a few days ago, must be 20 years or so since I last used it. It's perfect, even the belt. Wish I could say the same for my ESL63's, but I might start another thread on that!

The Barbarian
12-07-2014, 15:55
Are you referring to the High compliance Philips 400 series carts? Aye waiting patiently for Hamish to had me over his '422' Cart.. Good cartridge that..

One of the best decks to be ever created the 'TD124' everyone knows that, if they don't they do hoo now

:eyebrows:

It's not that i can't afford one it's that i could not afford to Schopper it.

spendorman
12-07-2014, 16:15
Are you referring to the High compliance Philips 400 series carts? Aye waiting patiently for Hamish to had me over his '422' Cart.. Good cartridge that..

One of the best decks to be ever created the 'TD124' everyone knows that, if they don't they do hoo now

:eyebrows:

It's not that i can't afford one it's that i could not afford to Schopper it.

Yes the 400 series, I have several, they all sound good.

I would not send my deck to Schopper, think it's fine. In about 1976 Charles Trayhorn of Metrosound was the TD124 Expert. I consulted him, bought the Papst motor conversion, and fitted it. I reckoned that the run capacitor was not optimal, fiddled around changing the value and sent him the results, he was very grateful.

Wakefield Turntables
27-07-2014, 19:41
Marco's talk about optimising a denon 103 got me thinking that I really should do something with mine. So, I ordered one of these

http://ortofon-shop.com/shop?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_lite_pdf.tpl&product_id=172&category_id=47

Mainly because its magnesium and nicely dampens down the aluminium body of my 103 and secondly it has a rounded edge that should mean that the whole
of the cartridge body should be dampened and if I so choose I can use my Cadenza black on my 301.

The second tweek to my 103 came in the guise of these beauties

http://ortofon-shop.com/shop?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_lite_pdf.tpl&product_id=172&category_id=47

These came in at half the price of the ortofon version and should work very well with the Ikeda silver wired 3012 I have on the 301.

The hunt for an external PSU still continues!

chelsea
27-07-2014, 20:16
Is that a russ collinson plinth?

Wakefield Turntables
27-07-2014, 20:30
No, Moldovan. Have a look on eBay, this guy produces top quality plinths at rock bottom prices.

chelsea
27-07-2014, 20:56
Yes i bought one off him,was very good.

Wakefield Turntables
01-08-2014, 17:17
New parts arrived and here they are plugged in and sounding lovely

129041290512906

I've been speaking to Speedy Steve of Magna Audio and have a special counterweight for the 3012 on the go and a new SPU, yep a SPU on reserve. More pics when they arrive.

Barry
01-08-2014, 17:38
The stylus needs cleaning! :lol:

Tim
03-08-2014, 12:13
No, Moldovan. Have a look on eBay, this guy produces top quality plinths at rock bottom prices.
Did you have any hidden snags ordering from him and were there any 'extras' regarding costs and shipping/importation? I have been looking at him for my 401 and his work seems good.

Looks impressive by the way ;)

Wakefield Turntables
03-08-2014, 14:37
Did you have any hidden snags ordering from him and were there any 'extras' regarding costs and shipping/importation? I have been looking at him for my 401 and his work seems good.

Looks impressive by the way ;)


No, he took a while, but then again it does have 10 coats of laquer. He does produce good stuff and the price quoted is what you pay. He does many veneer's so it might be worthwhile haveing a chat. His English isn't the best but it's good enough to get you a very nice plinth sent from Moldova :)

Wakefield Turntables
04-08-2014, 16:05
NEW TOY! Due to arrive end of next week.

http://ortofon.com/hifi/products/cartridges/spu-series/meister-silver-gm

:D

Wakefield Turntables
10-08-2014, 20:00
Well it's arrived, my SPU from Steve at Magna Audio. The
Ortofon SPU Meister Silver GM MkII
Here she blows

129721297312974

Listening to John Coltrane and the SPU has completely transformed this deck. You can keep you Denon 103 and your Shure V15 mk 3 this baby really rocks. It took me an hour to be completely bowled over by what it can do. I've now been completely spoiled and don't think I could go back to lower spec MC's on this deck. What's even more impressive is the Paradise phonostage I use just seems to work perfectly with this cart. To say I'm completely chuffed is a massive understatement. In fact I'm now on the lookout for a Royal GM mk2 or if one ever comes up for sale SPUA95. Steve has another toy waiting for me next week with a little luck. I'll probably scribble some thoughts on a seperate thread with regards the performance of this awesome SPU.

Barry
10-08-2014, 23:03
Is the bias weight support correctly set? The support should be set so that the bias weight thread is at right angles to the notched stub behind the pivot housing, when the stylus is playing the outer groove of the LP.

Wakefield Turntables
11-08-2014, 07:32
Probably not so will have a look tonight, we'll spotted. I was enjoying a classical and jazz session last night until 11.30pm, the cart sounded wonderful.

Wakefield Turntables
27-11-2014, 14:31
Not been on he for a while. My 301 is now going to Dr. Bastin for some TLC. Really nice chap.

The Barbarian
27-11-2014, 15:12
Is the bias weight support correctly set? The support should be set so that the bias weight thread is at right angles to the notched stub behind the pivot housing, when the stylus is playing the outer groove of the LP.

That's right Barry they aint like the later Wheel bias support. Looks nice that Andy..

Wakefield Turntables
27-11-2014, 18:37
Have I got a series 1 or a series 2 SME 3012?

jaym481
27-11-2014, 21:51
It's a Series 2. Looks like a later model without the split counterweight.

Wakefield Turntables
27-11-2014, 22:36
Thanks Jay.

jaym481
28-11-2014, 20:55
I wish I had the heavier counterweight for mine. I can't balance an SPU with my 3012.

Wakefield Turntables
29-11-2014, 08:52
I purchased a custom made weight from Steve at Magna audio, he did a superb job.

take5
29-11-2014, 10:12
Rexton, yes it is a 3012 series 2.

The third of your pictures in post 133 interest me.

I also have a 3012 and a heavyish cartridge. I ended up using another small counterweight in addition to the original one to balance it out. It meant I could have them further forward on the rear stub.

Yours looks to be very toward the back of the stub, (possibly even overhanging at the rear?)

My thinking was that it would be best not to put too much pressure on the rubber coupling joining the rear stub to the main arm. So, the forward of my two counterweights actually covers the "join".

I wonder if there are any pros /cons to each approach.

I can see that a SPU will be an area I will need to explore at some time. I hear good things, which you reinforce.

Wakefield Turntables
29-11-2014, 11:20
Take5

tHanks for the heads up I will take some photos today and post to see if I've got the thing setup.

andy

take5
29-11-2014, 11:28
Andy, Im far from an expert.

It was just something I noticed in your picture, and wondered if anyone with more knowledge could comment on "best" practice.

Wakefield Turntables
29-11-2014, 19:55
Brian,

I had a look at the pictures in post 133 and this was indeed the old SME counter weight. You will note the very expensive blu-tac upgrade I used to balance the SPU at tracking force of 4g. I had a word with Steve at Magna Audio and he produced me this.

1360713608

I can now balance cart+headshell loads upto 60g. :eek:I have also ordered a pair of these for <£13. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Platter-Damping-Rings-Bands-for-The-Garrard-301-401-Turntables-New-/290901889189?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43bb1a90a5 in a bid to try and dampen the platter. The next work will be sending the bearing to Dr. Bastin and then fitting my screen power lead into my PS AUDIO P10.

jaym481
29-11-2014, 20:51
I thought about getting Steve to turn a new cw for me, but the SPU now sits on an FR64S, so I'm good. :)

Wakefield Turntables
14-12-2014, 19:14
Since having my daughter I have been looking at cost effective ways of getting more out of my 301. In my last post I mentioned that I ordered a pair of these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Platter-Damping-Rings-Bands-for-The-Garrard-301-401-Turntables-New-/290901889189?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43bb1a90a5&clk_rvr_id=748669052406&afsrc=1

So, the obligatory comment that I have no link to this business in any way shape or form. I installed the platter rings on the advice of Dr. M. Bastin and after fives minutes noticed that they had indeed added a small but very pleasent improvement in the bass. I had a good listen to Cal Tjader playing on crows nest. The double bass had a little extra definition. I had a quick listen to Marillion (Forgotton Sons), and instruments seemed to have a little extra space bewteen them. All in all I must admit to only having a mini listening session but I'm more than happy with the small outlay and I think I have found a great little VFM / SPPV tweak for 301 or maybe even 401 owners. The best thing about this tweak is that you can get your money back if your not happy.

The bearing will be going to Martin Bastin in Januray for a rebuild. I can't bear to part with several hundred quid for some of the after market products out there mainly due to very little info/reviews on these products. I'll be charged less than £50 for his work an have been promised a wider sound stage and even greater dynamics to the bass. We shall have to wait.

Wakefield Turntables
15-12-2014, 19:02
I've been looking into buying a external power supply for my Garrard 301 and I came up with the following three options.

CLASSIC HIFI
The unit allows the user to lower the line input voltage going to the turntable down a level where no vibration can be heard from the motor. Surprisinglythe Garrard motors RPM can still be maintained on a lower voltage . Best results are obtained with the Eddy brake magnet out of the way of the disc or even removed as with this PSU its not required anymore as all speed selections and alterations are done by the PSU controls

So by lowering the line voltage right down and making fine adjustments with the HZ control it is possible to tweak the motor to just perfect performance and the net result is conconstanteed stability and virtually non existent mechanical noise .

£650


MARTIN BASTIN
Make a PSU which regenerates the incoming current so its a pure sine wave
£400

LORICRAFT

For nearly 10 years, Loricraft Audio have produced mains voltage power supply units. Put simply these units produce pure mains voltage AC waveforms at very precise frequencies normally 50 Hz or 60 Hz with very stable voltage and low distortion regardless of the quality of the domestic mains supply. Originally these supplies were intended for use with Garrard 301 and 401 turntables, and the new Garrard501. It is now accepted that they improve the performance of other equipment, and increasingly we supply them for use with the source components such as CD players, tapedecks, radio tuners and preamplifiers.
£1,000 - £2,400


The text has been lifted from individual websites. I came to a simple conclusion. Why bother when I have a PS Audio P10 which basically does all of the above without me having to do anything more than run a 3m lead from the 301 into the back of the P10. I can alter voltage levels going into the 301. The P10 regenerates a 50Hz sine wave with less than 0.01% THD from the input of the national grid. So I shall be experimenting with the 301 and the P10 to see how things turn out. Hopefully saving a few hundred quid in the process.

The Black Adder
15-12-2014, 19:05
Martin Bastin - bosh, done.

:)

jaym481
15-12-2014, 20:36
My 401 is plugged into a PS audio P600 set to 220V.

Wakefield Turntables
15-12-2014, 21:16
Martin Bastin - bosh, done.

:)

Yeah, and? The bearing or the PSU. I can't see the point in ordering a PSU when my P10 does the same job as a Martin Bastin PSU


My 401 is plugged into a PS audio P600 set to 220V.

And???? What happened to it? Did it improve? Are you happy with it in your P600 compared to normal wall socket?

The Black Adder
16-12-2014, 06:29
Oh I see..

ok... then try the P10 for sure.

surayne
16-12-2014, 22:35
A couple of other PSU options are the DIY Lenco controller (have a look for Nigel's Speed Controller on Lenco Heaven) and the Eagle PSU from Phoenix Engineering in the US.

Wakefield Turntables
17-12-2014, 08:29
A couple of other PSU options are the DIY Lenco controller (have a look for Nigel's Speed Controller on Lenco Heaven) and the Eagle PSU from Phoenix Engineering in the US.

I think your missing the point! The P10 means I dont need to worry about an external PSU thus saving me money! :)

jaym481
17-12-2014, 10:47
Yeah, and? The bearing or the PSU. I can't see the point in ordering a PSU when my P10 does the same job as a Martin Bastin PSU



And???? What happened to it? Did it improve? Are you happy with it in your P600 compared to normal wall socket?

Can't say I registered a significant sonic improvement, but the motor runs a bit cooler (my wall mains chuck 250V at my gear on a regular basis), and yes, I'm happy with it.

jaym481
17-12-2014, 10:52
I should add that the PS audio supplies aren't as flexible as the Loricraft, which allows speed adjustments at the PS, rather than on the deck, if I'm not mistaken. The Lenco DIY one on Lenco Heaven does the same thing, and a few on there use one with Garrards. Both allow for the removal of the eddy current brake, which some report is an improvement. I don't know though, as I haven't tried it.

If what you are looking for is a one-time voltage adjustment (to taste) and a known accurate 50Hz, the PS Audio is quite enough, and saves you splashing out for something else.

Ammonite Audio
17-12-2014, 11:07
Yeah, and? The bearing or the PSU. I can't see the point in ordering a PSU when my P10 does the same job as a Martin Bastin PSU

Not strictly true. The P10 will feed a better waveform to the 301 motor, but Martin Bastin's PSU (like others mentioned above) will allow you to adjust the output frequency too (also the output voltage using internal trimmers, should you wish). You might wonder why that should be a Good Thing, but in practice it means you are not totally reliant on the eddy brake for speed adjustment, since the 301's motor running speed depends on supply voltage and frequency. . Martin's PSU allows you to adjust the motor speed using the frequency adjustment, and to play around with the eddy brake speed adjustment for best musical results. It is quite possible that just a touch of eddy brake gives best results, but without dropping the supply frequency (or voltage) the motor will turn too quickly. These shaded pole motors do seem to like a touch of constant linear load, which the eddy brake provides (also the grease bearing on earlier models, perhaps?).

So, my recommendation is to use a PSU like Martin's, fed from your P10.

Wakefield Turntables
17-12-2014, 13:54
Interesting. I think I need to play with the p10 before I buy anything new for the 301.

Moko
19-12-2014, 10:14
The Lenco Speed Controller does all that Martin's does... with my 401 I have removed the Eddy Brake disc completely and now run my 401 at 200V and all the fine tuning for speed is done on the Lenco Speed Controller (once its set it stays set)

Price for building the controller was approximately £150-£200 depending upon the case you intend to use. I am in no way experienced with building electronics but thanks to the designer Nigel's amazing support even I managed to complete the build successfully.

Here's the finished job

http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy154/MokoMilk/Turntable%20Speed%20Controller/20140309_161115_zpsvy8gqpys.jpg (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/MokoMilk/media/Turntable%20Speed%20Controller/20140309_161115_zpsvy8gqpys.jpg.html)

Interior shot

http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy154/MokoMilk/Turntable%20Speed%20Controller/20140210_195403_zpshrnm2pdw.jpg (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/MokoMilk/media/Turntable%20Speed%20Controller/20140210_195403_zpshrnm2pdw.jpg.html)

Wakefield Turntables
19-12-2014, 11:11
Can't say I registered a significant sonic improvement, but the motor runs a bit cooler (my wall mains chuck 250V at my gear on a regular basis), and yes, I'm happy with it.


I should add that the PS audio supplies aren't as flexible as the Loricraft, which allows speed adjustments at the PS, rather than on the deck, if I'm not mistaken. The Lenco DIY one on Lenco Heaven does the same thing, and a few on there use one with Garrards. Both allow for the removal of the eddy current brake, which some report is an improvement. I don't know though, as I haven't tried it.

If what you are looking for is a one-time voltage adjustment (to taste) and a known accurate 50Hz, the PS Audio is quite enough, and saves you splashing out for something else.

Thanks for your input Jay. I may have a look at the Lenco jobby.


The Lenco Speed Controller does all that Martin's does... with my 401 I have removed the Eddy Brake disc completely and now run my 401 at 200V and all the fine tuning for speed is done on the Lenco Speed Controller (once its set it stays set)

Price for building the controller was approximately £150-£200 depending upon the case you intend to use. I am in no way experienced with building electronics but thanks to the designer Nigel's amazing support even I managed to complete the build successfully.

Here's the finished job

http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy154/MokoMilk/Turntable%20Speed%20Controller/20140309_161115_zpsvy8gqpys.jpg (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/MokoMilk/media/Turntable%20Speed%20Controller/20140309_161115_zpsvy8gqpys.jpg.html)

Interior shot

http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy154/MokoMilk/Turntable%20Speed%20Controller/20140210_195403_zpshrnm2pdw.jpg (http://s787.photobucket.com/user/MokoMilk/media/Turntable%20Speed%20Controller/20140210_195403_zpshrnm2pdw.jpg.html)

Thanks again for the tip! Looks like I need to dig out my Lenco Heaven log in details and have a look at this PSU.

Ammonite Audio
19-12-2014, 13:50
The Lenco Heaven (Nigel's) speed controller PCB is no longer available, unless you can find someone with spare ones to sell.

Wakefield Turntables
19-12-2014, 17:21
The Lenco Heaven (Nigel's) speed controller PCB is no longer available, unless you can find someone with spare ones to sell.

BUGGER!
:(

Wakefield Turntables
19-12-2014, 20:19
Just emailed Nigel to see if he has any left over.

jaym481
20-12-2014, 00:32
It may just require a bit of patience. Nigel has redone boards from time to time, and probably will again.

Wakefield Turntables
20-12-2014, 10:47
Yep, just got an email saying he's out of boards, damm. I've put my name down for the next batch.

Wakefield Turntables
08-02-2015, 19:21
I got an hour to work on the 301 this evening. I removed the bearing and fitted some new feet. The platter has two dampening rings which certainly stop the old girl ringing like a bell.


13950

Bearing removed and waiting to go to Martin Bastin, will post tomorrow. :) I've seen quite a few bearing costing several hundreds of pounds and TBH dont really trust any of them. You cant borrow them and the reviews are very few and far bewteen. At least the Martin Bastin upgrades have been tried and tested. COME ON MIKE NEW WHERE IS THE GARRARD 301 BEARING :eek:

13952

New feet fitted, £36 for 4, excellent quality. Levelling the 301 is now a piece of cake. They sit on Sorbothane footers.

13949

Poor 301, heart ripped out and the 3012 strippd naked. :(

Next step is the external PSU.

Riislingen
08-02-2015, 20:11
I´m trawling for an external PSU for my 401 as well.

I´ve dealt with Ray at CTC before, and found him a great chap.

He´s got these: http://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/products-page/upgrades/classic-301-power-supply-unit-psu

http://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/PSU2-550x500.jpg

Should do what the rest of the pinnacle products do, but at slightly lower cost it seems.

Anyone knows anything about them or perhaps even tried one ?

Wakefield Turntables
08-02-2015, 21:53
He's less than 1/2 a mile from where I live :eek:.

Riislingen
09-02-2015, 06:39
He's less than 1/2 a mile from where I live :eek:.

Go on then ...!

:eyebrows:

Ammonite Audio
09-02-2015, 07:11
I´m trawling for an external PSU for my 401 as well.

I´ve dealt with Ray at CTC before, and found him a great chap.

He´s got these: http://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/products-page/upgrades/classic-301-power-supply-unit-psu

http://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/PSU2-550x500.jpg

Should do what the rest of the pinnacle products do, but at slightly lower cost it seems.

Anyone knows anything about them or perhaps even tried one ?

Looks interesting and stylish, and priced in the same area as Martin Bastin's PSUs. I use a Martin Bastin PSU with my Thorens TD-124, but I don't think it's wise to do speed selection entirely electronically like this, since you're then asking the motor to run across a very wide speed range; and it probably won't like that. Furthermore, I've found that these old shaded pole motors do seem to work best when a mere touch of eddy brake is applied (Martin Bastin did tell me why this is a good thing, but I discovered the fact by listening). I also discovered that idlers can easily lose their sonic 'drive' if the supply voltage is lowered too much, so in practice it seems to be better to set voltage relatively high at 220-240v, apply a touch of eddy braking, and then tweak the supply frequency to get correct rotational speed.

DarrenHW
09-02-2015, 07:29
COME ON MIKE NEW WHERE IS THE GARRARD 301 BEARING :eek:

+1, have you heard anything from him on the progression of this?

Nice feet, where did you get them / what's the max height?

Wakefield Turntables
09-02-2015, 08:47
Guys I will reply tonight when I get back from work.

Tim
09-02-2015, 09:47
13952

New feet fitted, £36 for 4, excellent quality. Levelling the 301 is now a piece of cake. They sit on Sorbothane footers.
Where did you find these Andy, I like em'?

Riislingen
09-02-2015, 11:38
Looks interesting and stylish, and priced in the same area as Martin Bastin's PSUs. I use a Martin Bastin PSU with my Thorens TD-124, but I don't think it's wise to do speed selection entirely electronically like this, since you're then asking the motor to run across a very wide speed range; and it probably won't like that. Furthermore, I've found that these old shaded pole motors do seem to work best when a mere touch of eddy brake is applied (Martin Bastin did tell me why this is a good thing, but I discovered the fact by listening). I also discovered that idlers can easily lose their sonic 'drive' if the supply voltage is lowered too much, so in practice it seems to be better to set voltage relatively high at 220-240v, apply a touch of eddy braking, and then tweak the supply frequency to get correct rotational speed.

Hi Hugo,

I suppose the appliance in question can work like you describe, as it can do fixed or variable voltage up to 240v, then use the eddy brake and tune with the adjustable frequency pot - at least that was my plan.

I´ve sent over a deposit for one, so let´s see what it can do once I get around to actually acquiring one.

Wakefield Turntables
09-02-2015, 19:55
OK, bearing now gone. I spoke to Martin Bastin today and it appears that i can do a lot more with the 301.

1. Fit a PSU and remove the eddy brake.
2. Earth the 301 correctly.
3. Further improve on vibration elimination.

I may be getting a new Martin Bastin designed PSU "MAY" being the operative word. It all depends on how he's fixed when I next speak to him. I've been promised more info on properly earthing the 301, Martin has suggested some quite interesting things which can be done in this department. Finally vibration elimination appears to be another area where Martin thinks that things can be improved. I'll be posting more pics and advice as this project develops.




I´m trawling for an external PSU for my 401 as well.

I´ve dealt with Ray at CTC before, and found him a great chap.

He´s got these: http://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/products-page/upgrades/classic-301-power-supply-unit-psu

http://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/PSU2-550x500.jpg

Should do what the rest of the pinnacle products do, but at slightly lower cost it seems.

Anyone knows anything about them or perhaps even tried one ?

This is the sort of thing I won't be buying. It dosen't fit my HIFI ethos. The fascia plates and knobs add £100 alone to the cost of this PSU. It's too blingy for a start and why do we need the bright blue voltage meter? Surely the voltage meter is only going to be used a few times? Its a waste of money and just adds more components into the design of the PSU. This PSU digitally corrects the voltage output PSU, again a hell of a lot of faffing and components which add cost. I'm afraid Martin Bastin is getting my money.




Looks interesting and stylish, and priced in the same area as Martin Bastin's PSUs. I use a Martin Bastin PSU with my Thorens TD-124, but I don't think it's wise to do speed selection entirely electronically like this, since you're then asking the motor to run across a very wide speed range; and it probably won't like that. Furthermore, I've found that these old shaded pole motors do seem to work best when a mere touch of eddy brake is applied (Martin Bastin did tell me why this is a good thing, but I discovered the fact by listening). I also discovered that idlers can easily lose their sonic 'drive' if the supply voltage is lowered too much, so in practice it seems to be better to set voltage relatively high at 220-240v, apply a touch of eddy braking, and then tweak the supply frequency to get correct rotational speed.

Martin Bastin pretty much verified this today when I spoke to him over the phone.



+1, have you heard anything from him on the progression of this?

Nice feet, where did you get them / what's the max height?

Still a WIP according to Mike. The feet give approx. 70mm clearence and even more when the feet are extended. :eek:


Where did you find these Andy, I like em'?

km.sounds.ltd (http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/km.sounds.ltd?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2754) ON EBAY.

Tim
09-02-2015, 20:08
Thanks Andy http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/Gifs/thumbsup.gif

A.Grail
21-02-2015, 11:32
Sadly there is no ideal voltage setting as Garrard produced slight variations to the 301 motor during it's production in terms of windings and casework. In simple terms the drag of the magnet actually assists the motor. Trying voltage / frequencies that suit your ear is the way to go here. Personally we tried numerous methods to lower vibration with PSU's before deciding the problem of vibration is more to do with it's transference to the platter and as such we played with thicker chassis and bracing before completely detaching the motor from the chassis and allowing a resin (Impregnated) platform within the plinth to secure the motor. This solution drastically reduces vibration. Dr. Bastin does similar with his Max plank although Bob C'c Cusworth plinth is rather more engineered but sadly now out of production.

Wakefield Turntables
25-02-2015, 21:31
Matt which resin do you use in your plinths? ;)

Well I have to be cheeky and ask!

A.Grail
27-02-2015, 18:03
Matt which resin do you use in your plinths? ;)

Well I have to be cheeky and ask!

The Cusworth plinth I use was Made by Bob C. The resin is impregnated with bentonite clay

Wakefield Turntables
27-02-2015, 20:08
Thanks, will have to do some research.

A.Grail
28-02-2015, 09:07
A good place to start:
http://qualia.webs.com/plinthbuilding.htm

Wakefield Turntables
28-02-2015, 11:01
Thanks Matt.

Wakefield Turntables
14-03-2015, 20:56
Martin Bastin modified bearing is a coming home on Tuesday! :pub: More pics and info/thoughts when its installed and had time to listen to it.

DarrenHW
15-03-2015, 07:39
:popcorn:

Wakefield Turntables
17-03-2015, 17:09
Bearing arrived this morning just about to plumb it in for a listen. Then we start on properly earthing the 301. :eek:

DarrenHW
18-03-2015, 06:23
What changes are you making to the earthing Andy?

Wakefield Turntables
19-03-2015, 19:34
New Martin Bastin modified bearing installed!

Martin completely stripped the bearing down, ultrasonically cleaned and polished every component. The old oil in the bearing has been replaced with something which martin recommends. My bearing was classified as being in very good condition and similar to a 401 bearing:scratch: Martin also did a little lathe work on the thrust plate. I was also supplied with a decent tube of oil and a pipette. Work was prompt and everything came to less then £50.

BARGAIN!

The platter is spinning in absolute silence. Needle drops onto the platter cannot be heard. Bass has improved a little, not earth shattering but a nice improvement. Microdetail is improved and instrument seperation has markedly improved. I've had less than 2 hours playing and already noticed some great improvements. This is one improvement that all 301/401 owners should strongly consider.


PS Darren, it's probably better to contact Martin yourself and discuss your bearing/earthing needs. Send me a PM if you want his details.

Procyon
04-04-2015, 15:16
I'm looking for a plinth option for my 301 and this thread has been very useful yet I'm still not much nearer deciding which way to go!

Rexton what's your view of the plinth you bought from Moldova? Presumably you had to pay import/customs fees on it?

Thanks
C

Wakefield Turntables
04-04-2015, 17:04
I'm looking for a plinth option for my 301 and this thread has been very useful yet I'm still not much nearer deciding which way to go!

Rexton what's your view of the plinth you bought from Moldova? Presumably you had to pay import/customs fees on it?

Thanks
C

Chris,

The plinth makes a MASSIVE difference. Its as near to a Shindo Cherry Wood as you'll get. Don't be fooled by people saying that Slate is better, it isn't! I've owned slate and could not hear any difference bewteen it my birch ply plinth, the cost is also stupidly expensive. If your on a budget I would recommend birch ply 100%. Moldova is part of the European union say you pay no import/custom fees. The finish and build are second to none and you will not get anything as good in this country (unless your mate can make you one) for the cost I paid. The waiting time is quite long (2 months) but I got piano gloss finish with 10 layers of laquer and varnish. Slightly off thread but if your serious about doing your 301 I would recommend you send you bearing to Martin Bastin for a full fettle and then ignore the stupid prices which can be paid for some after market bearings. I worried and worried about buying a bearing and then came to the conclusion that a £50 fettle would probably be more cost effective than a >£500 aftermarket jobby. Again I have heard several of these bearings and came away completely underwhelmed every time. You can easily be dragged into spending thousands on after market crap. My final upgrade for my own deck will be a Martin Bastin PSU. I may do some more messing with decoupling the motor and mount this external from the 301 to stop vibration entering into the 301 chasis via diverting it into the mass and dampening properties of the birch ply plinth. :eyebrows: Hope all this helps.

Procyon
04-04-2015, 17:34
Chris,

The plinth makes a MASSIVE difference. Its as near to a Shindo Cherry Wood as you'll get. Don't be fooled by people saying that Slate is better, it isn't! I've owned slate and could not hear any difference bewteen it my birch ply plinth, the cost is also stupidly expensive. If your on a budget I would recommend birch ply 100%. Moldova is part of the European union say you pay no import/custom fees. The finish and build are second to none and you will not get anything as good in this country (unless your mate can make you one) for the cost I paid. The waiting time is quite long (2 months) but I got piano gloss finish with 10 layers of laquer and varnish. Slightly off thread but if your serious about doing your 301 I would recommend you send you bearing to Martin Bastin for a full fettle and then ignore the stupid prices which can be paid for some after market bearings. I worried and worried about buying a bearing and then came to the conclusion that a £50 fettle would probably be more cost effective than a >£500 aftermarket jobby. Again I have heard several of these bearings and came away completely underwhelmed every time. You can easily be dragged into spending thousands on after market crap. My final upgrade for my own deck will be a Martin Bastin PSU. I may do some more messing with decoupling the motor and mount this external from the 301 to stop vibration entering into the 301 chasis via diverting it into the mass and dampening properties of the birch ply plinth. :eyebrows: Hope all this helps.

That's great, thank you so much for taking the trouble to give such a comprehensive reply and this on top of what has been a very enlightning thread for me. I noted your unqualified enthusiasm for the Martin Bastin fettled bearing and will definitely give that serious consideration. On the choice of material my investigations drew me to the conclusion that slate is very expensive as you've said. I do very much like the look of the pictures you've posted of your plinth.

Thanks again
Chris

Wakefield Turntables
04-04-2015, 18:40
Chris,

No worries that's what this forum is all about!!!! I don't get any referral fee's for sending people Martin's way but I feel that he should be championed due to the fact he prices are extremely reasonable, he's passionate about what he does and more importantly he knows what he's talking about is widely respected and his mods do what they say on the can. The PSU will be a POP to fit and should give great sonic benefits, decoupling the motor and designing a cradle for the plinth will be tricky but we need to do one things at a time! I honestly don't think there is very much more to do on the 301 after these mods. Possibly a new platter ala Shindo but that's maybe in 2016. I wanna get the PSU and motor decoupled in 2015 and more importantly listen to some music!!!!!!!!!

Wakefield Turntables
20-06-2015, 19:27
Time flies. I've been re-examining my options for a PSU for my 301 and have now ordered a set of Nigel's Speed Controller PCB's from Lenco Heaven. Tomorrow will see me downloading and printing numerous PDF's. Monday will see more ordering all the components (3 A4 pages worth). This has been a long time in coming and see's my finishing off another big part of the 301's evolution. Hopefully I'll get some pix posted as things develop. :D

Wakefield Turntables
26-06-2015, 15:35
Components for PCB's now ordered. Will get pix organised at some point. Now I just to get my arse into gear for my new Tannoy Cabs. :eek:

DarrenHW
26-06-2015, 16:09
Exciting! What was the deciding factor in choosing Nigel's SC?

Wakefield Turntables
26-06-2015, 16:30
The cost! It can do everything the others can and at a fraction of the price. I've ordered two sets of PCB's just in case I fancy doing up a 401/Lenco/ or a Thorens at some point in the future. ;)

DarrenHW
26-06-2015, 16:55
Fair enough, that's a good a reason as any. Looking forward to reading your findings :).

Wakefield Turntables
08-07-2015, 18:41
15006

Nigels PCB controller arrived! This is the beginnings of my external PSU for the 301.

Wakefield Turntables
09-07-2015, 13:08
You might be saying hello to Garrardstein in the next few weeks if things go to plan! The 301 looks like it might be getting some upgrades internally. Need to clarify a few things with the Garrard Guru's before we go any further with the details. :eyebrows:

DarrenHW
11-07-2015, 10:05
Nice looking boards, from the photo's they look well made.

"Garrardstein", intriguing!

Wakefield Turntables
11-07-2015, 11:20
I'm having a little experiment to see if the best bits of the 401 can be transplanted over to the 301 to improve the decks performance. It looks like after talking to a few garrard gurus that pros and cons exist for doing various mods, buts that the fun of tweaking.

DarrenHW
11-07-2015, 11:49
I do remember reading somewhere about the potential advantage of a hybrid 301/401, IIRC the later 401 motors were considered one of the better motors but the difference's were thought to be quite small? (That is not in anyway meant in anyway to discredit the validity of your experiments :)) I think I also remember reading that the 401 should have been technically superior but let down by poor execution due to cost cutting. I have 2 x 401's, one 1965, one 1966 approximately 6 months apart, the casting on the 1965 motor housing is far superior to the 1966, the finish on the 1965 platter is better and it's a tighter fit on the spindle although this may be a consequence of how it was treated in the 49 years before I bought it, it does show a reduction in manufacturing quality over a very small time frame.

Wakefield Turntables
11-07-2015, 13:14
I do remember reading somewhere about the potential advantage of a hybrid 301/401, IIRC the later 401 motors were considered one of the better motors but the difference's were thought to be quite small? (That is not in anyway meant in anyway to discredit the validity of your experiments :)) I think I also remember reading that the 401 should have been technically superior but let down by poor execution due to cost cutting. I have 2 x 401's, one 1965, one 1966 approximately 6 months apart, the casting on the 1965 motor housing is far superior to the 1966, the finish on the 1965 platter is better and it's a tighter fit on the spindle although this may be a consequence of how it was treated in the 49 years before I bought it, it does show a reduction in manufacturing quality over a very small time frame.

Can't fault any of your observations, Darren. What you say is pretty much what the Garrard guru's say. It really is horses for courses. The 401 is supposed to have more torque and be better screened againt EMI. I wonder if I could get better torque from the 301 motor by simply using the new speed controller I'm having made up. This would certainly negate the need of me transplanting the 401 motor into the 301. I can't do anything about the cast quality of my 301 but I could apply a cross brace to the 301's casing to increase it's stiffness which may fetch it upto the 401's level of quality? The tolerance of certain parts has been discussed and this is certainly the way that some of the Garrard guru's go. I think the external PSU + speed controller, detachment of the motor and seperate arm pod for tonearm's are the best way to go. I don't think I'm going to be dicking around with dampening pads or any crap like that. What do you intend doing with your 401?

DarrenHW
12-07-2015, 10:22
I have seen threads where people have braced the chassis, I've not looked into this but I did put a shim with a blu tack "damper" between the base of the spindle and the lower plinth. I only tried this as a quick and easy experiment but found it reduced noise and improved bass, (the choice of "damper" did have an effect on the bass, I tried sorbathane, felt, neoprene and cork but overall preferred blu tack) I don't see why further improvements couldn't be achieved with better bracing. Detaching the motor could only be a good thing as far as I'm concerned and will be something I look into when finalising the plinth design.

My 401 is on the back burner at the moment but I only have modest plans for it. I need to source another idler (I have 2 401's but only 1 idler) when I have I'll have it redressed and install new bearings, this will complete the service as all other springs and bushes have been replaced. I do intend to look at the wiring, nothing revolutionary, just really re-routing maybe fixing the wiring to the lower plinth instead of suspending it off the motor and chassis. I'm still interested in the PSU, but have no plan to progress with this in the near future. One area I would like to investigate is having a copper top plate bonded to the platter with the hope that it would act as an electrical shield? This is just something I'm mulling over, I guess the material and machining cost would be £2-300 and it would mean sacrificing a platter if the results were negative.

How's your search for a 401 coming on?

A.Grail
12-07-2015, 11:15
The Rubato 3mm copper platter mat is an interesting item when used in conjunction with a thin silicone mat (Used to damp the ringing platter with the Rubato on top)
Pure sound made these mats and also the Tenuto (Gun metal mat) with a very interesting profile which really does allow the record to sit down correctly.
In terms of 401 motors whilst the Plessey cut backs effected the 401 from fairly early on in it's production the very last type 401 motors however probably run quietest. All 401 motors have less torque than 301 motors. The Grease bearing motors all have considerably more torque. These motors 301 however are cast ally as opposed to cast iron in the case of the 401 and do vibrate more in addition the 401 motor bushes are of better design. Much of this can be managed by the removal of the motor from the chassis and supported instead by the plinth. In terms of chassis stiffness the 401 chassis is A) a better casting B) Thicker and C) braced with cast 'ribs'. Again much of this can be overcome with the addition of a 'P' or H shaped bracing to the top of the 301 chassis along with a brace to the bottom of the 301 bearing. Personally I prefer these methods as they are A)Reversible and B) retain the integrity and heritage of the 301.
Here's a few pics of the Tenuto:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/Tenuto%20collage.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/Tenuto%20collage.jpg.html)
I understand they will be made available again soon

DarrenHW
12-07-2015, 11:42
Good looking mat and a far more reversible solution than modifying a platter. Have you use one of these Matt, if so would be good to hear your thoughts. My interest in copper is in it's application as a shield, there's a whole load of juice floating around under the platter of a 301/401 I feel that shielding the cartridge from this would be a positive move?

A.Grail
12-07-2015, 12:04
Hi Darren,
I did for a long time use the Rubato, certainly the 301's switching being directly under the platter was noted by Garrard who introduced a mumetal screening cover on later 301's...I digress. Here is a review of the Rubato which perhaps indicates a little of what it does:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/rubato-Mat-review.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/rubato-Mat-review.jpg.html)
Here are a few pics of the Rubato
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/IMG_0050_2.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/IMG_0050_2.jpg.html)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/IMG_0051_1.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/IMG_0051_1.jpg.html)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/IMG_0054_1.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/IMG_0054_1.jpg.html)
My personal preference is for the Gun Metal Tenuto, this mat has a 1m drop from the run in to run aout grove area of the mat enabling the record to sit' correctly. THe Gun metal itself is an interesting material in this application and combined with the unique profile and mass leads to a notable improvement (IMHO) to the sound.
Here are a few pics of some of our 301s with Rubatos and Tenutos
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/10470637_1096149793735935_2848593037452874598_n.jp g (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/10470637_1096149793735935_2848593037452874598_n.jp g.html)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/10517286_932514903432759_7962692248700626727_o.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/10517286_932514903432759_7962692248700626727_o.jpg .html)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/1932628_937651086252474_4226361285059860096_o.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/1932628_937651086252474_4226361285059860096_o.jpg. html)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/1800075_811155325568718_1368012229_o.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/1800075_811155325568718_1368012229_o.jpg.html)

DarrenHW
12-07-2015, 12:48
Thanks Matt,


...I did for a long time use the Rubato...

This does raise the question of what you replaced it with?

A.Grail
12-07-2015, 13:18
The Gun metal Tenuto mat pictured - N.B: Both the Rubato and the Tenuto made by Pure Sound

DarrenHW
12-07-2015, 15:16
With your knowledge of Garrard's that's high praise indeed :).

Wakefield Turntables
12-07-2015, 15:39
I have seen threads where people have braced the chassis, I've not looked into this but I did put a shim with a blu tack "damper" between the base of the spindle and the lower plinth. I only tried this as a quick and easy experiment but found it reduced noise and improved bass, (the choice of "damper" did have an effect on the bass, I tried sorbathane, felt, neoprene and cork but overall preferred blu tack) I don't see why further improvements couldn't be achieved with better bracing. Detaching the motor could only be a good thing as far as I'm concerned and will be something I look into when finalising the plinth design.

My 401 is on the back burner at the moment but I only have modest plans for it. I need to source another idler (I have 2 401's but only 1 idler) when I have I'll have it redressed and install new bearings, this will complete the service as all other springs and bushes have been replaced. I do intend to look at the wiring, nothing revolutionary, just really re-routing maybe fixing the wiring to the lower plinth instead of suspending it off the motor and chassis. I'm still interested in the PSU, but have no plan to progress with this in the near future. One area I would like to investigate is having a copper top plate bonded to the platter with the hope that it would act as an electrical shield? This is just something I'm mulling over, I guess the material and machining cost would be £2-300 and it would mean sacrificing a platter if the results were negative.

How's your search for a 401 coming on?

Ive managed to get a 401 from a forum member for a good price. I'll try the tweek with the blutack when I get my tannoys back.

DarrenHW
12-07-2015, 17:39
Ive managed to get a 401 from a forum member for a good price...

The beginning of a third system?!? :D

Wakefield Turntables
12-07-2015, 18:42
The beginning of a third system?!? :D

We'll see! ;)

Wakefield Turntables
16-09-2015, 08:23
The 301 continues to evolve. This time I shall be decoupling the motor from the chassis (not that I've seen how it's done). :eek:

DarrenHW
16-09-2015, 17:33
Good luck with that, how do you plan on doing it / how's the PSU coming on?

Wakefield Turntables
16-09-2015, 17:41
You decouple the motor, thread a couple of bolts through the screw holes and attached into plinth, it's that simple. The PSU is still a work in progress :(

DarrenHW
16-09-2015, 18:40
I forgot you have a solid plinth :doh:, good luck with it, I'm interested to read your findings.

Wakefield Turntables
16-09-2015, 18:52
I forgot you have a solid plinth :doh:, good luck with it, I'm interested to read your findings.

Yep I dont think you'll have enough space under your slate plinth, also drilling into slate could be a PITA?? Maybe this is where a birchply plinth has an advantage over slate?

Wakefield Turntables
22-09-2015, 19:57
Could this be the answer to all my Garrard 301 PSU woes?

http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/siemens_micromaster_420_e.html

Wakefield Turntables
24-09-2015, 07:39
Bull ... Horns... Gripped... 301 psu now under construction, parts ordered from farnell.

DarrenHW
25-09-2015, 04:42
Looking forward to seeing this progress.

Wakefield Turntables
28-09-2015, 19:13
Interesting experiment tonight. I borrowed a stethoscope from a friend just to see if I could hear any noise through the plinth and also through the decks chasis. Low and behind I could hear a low "rumbling" noise through the chasis which was minimised further when I listened through the plinth. I suspect that the bearing or motor are causing these effects. I therefore think a further examination of the deck by Dr. Bastin is in order. I intend to get the deck's new PSU working first and listen to its effects, then it's going to Dr. Bastin. I don't think that there is much more I can do on the deck apart from decoupling the motor and mounting the Tonearm on a seperate arm pod.

Wakefield Turntables
28-09-2015, 19:53
More listening through my Stethoscope but this time with and without the Michell clamp. I honestly don't think I can hear any difference between using and not using the clamp through either the deck chasis or through the plinth? I wonder if a record weight would help? It would also be interesting to compare slate plinth against birch ply!!:eek:

Wakefield Turntables
29-12-2015, 21:20
I've been messing around with the voltage supply to the 301 via my P10 regenerator and I'm pleased to say that the P10 set to 230V, 50hz, heavily regulated seems to generate further benefits. Bass has suddenly developed a more tuneful extension, piano decay and leading edge of notes seem a better defined. Brush work on drums seems a little crisper. Soundstage seems to have developed more cohesion. I understand that voltage values vary with values being quoted bewteen 190 to 230 making a big difference, I guess it's a case of suck it and see really. Oh dear, lots of experimentation needed! Next step is to decouple the motor. This IS something that I have to get round to doing in January. I've only been going to do it for the last year!!!!

Wakefield Turntables
31-12-2015, 19:53
Another day another mod! This time I decided to finally remove the Eddy current brake. A lot has been said about the eddy current adding additional vibration into the platter by transmitting vibration up the shaft up into the 50/60hz pulley. This is a modification which is as old as the hills and has been verified as given an additional improvement to the decks performance in fact it's a standard mod that Martin Bastin performs when he's hot rodding these decks. The entire mod take approx 5-10 minutes. Firstly platter is removed to reveal the pulley, the eddy brake and the eddy brake disc.

15962

The pulley is held on the main spindle by two small grub screws which need removing and carefully putting to one side. They spindle should look like this when the pulley is removed.

15963

It should now be possible to push the eddy brake to one side. The eddy brake disc slides off the spindle but is kept in place by the black idler wheel, this can very carfully be pushed to one side once the spring attached to the idler wheel housing bracket has been detatched. Once the eddy disc brake is removed the spring is attached back to the idler wheel housing and the idler wheel can be re-aligned to the pulley on the spindle.

15964

The idler wheel needs careful re-alignment making sure that it's outer edge articulates with the 33/45/78 rpm surfaces of the pulley. The above picture shows the finished job and the Idler wheel being re-aligned for 33rpm usage. The final picture (below) shows the completed job and the eddy current disc.

15965

So how does it sound? Well I'm afraid I don't know!! I've had a busy day and the valve amps not fully warmed up. I'll want a proper listen to the system when I'm less tired and have chance to fully evaluate what I hear over several records.

Wakefield Turntables
31-12-2015, 20:08
So it's nearly 2016 and what's going to happen to the 301? Well I have a few further upgrades planned.

1. A 401 bearing. Widely touted as being of much better construction than the standard 301 bearing. I think that current after market bearing are far too expensive and not as well made as the original Garrard bearings. This will be completely stripped down, rebuilt, re-polished and cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner.

2. The motor will be de-coupled. The motor will be housed in a purpose built cradle which will be couple to the plinth. Much attention to detail will be taken to minimise the
transmission of vibration back into the plinth. This will probably be the last mod I make as I'm still researching the best way to do this.

3. New Tonearm cable for the SME 3012. This will be a SPD-4 Yannis Tome jobbie, the same as on my 1210. My current Nordost TYR is a very very good match for the SME 3012 and the 301 but I fancy a change and would like a complete "loom" of Yannis Tome cables as the IC's are of Yannis Tome construction.

4. I'll probably end up building a Nigel's Speed Controller. I'd like to see what effects this has over the 301. This will allow for greater experimentation with lower voltages and additionally will allow me to fine tune speed control. I'd also like to add a decently screened heavy duty power cable into the motor, this is something I can't do at the moment due to the excess weight of the cable dragging down on the motor suspension springs.

I don't think I can do any more to the 301 apart from cross bracing the 301 chassis and this is something that I'm about to do.

Wakefield Turntables
01-01-2016, 17:35
Garrard 401 bearing now purchased. Now awaiting delivery and then it's a complete restrip, rebuild, ultrasonic clean and then reoil. Old parts will be replaced for new where needed and old parts retained whenever possible. Pix to follow when the thing arrives!

Wakefield Turntables
04-01-2016, 13:10
The development of the 301 is now gathering pace. Laser Tachometer has been ordered to assess current platter speed and I may finally have a PSU that I'm happy with. Additional developments in the next few weeks will be assessment of the 401 bearing and assessment of a new idler wheel. I'm contemplating ordering a new Idler wheel and then that way I should have new idler bearing and minimal chance of idler wheel warpage.

Tim
04-01-2016, 17:44
If I was ever going to have a vintage TT the 301 would be it, I sold my 401 to Nathan who to be honest gave it the love it deserved :)

Good thread.

Wakefield Turntables
04-01-2016, 18:09
If I was ever going to have a vintage TT the 301 would be it, I sold my 401 to Nathan who to be honest gave it the love it deserved :)

Good thread.

You really do need to read around the 301 to learn how to restore them. I've been at 2-3 years and only feel like I'm finally getting to the end. I'm putting in a big final push to try and finish it off. I'd like to try and finalise this deck before end of 2016 so I can move onto something else. I fancy either a Lenco or Thorens after this one.

Wakefield Turntables
06-01-2016, 17:01
401 bearing arrived today. Its looks a little tatty and a couple of bits are missing but it should suffice. I'll be doing a little work on it tonight, mainly cleaning it up and then ultrasonically cleaning were ever I can. I'm going to contract Loricraft and probably get this refurbished upto 501 bearing specs, cost will be ~£500 but I view this as an investment. I can't really see how any of the after market bearings available beat the original garrard design and consequently I believe that Loricraft has vastly superior experience, expertise and research resources available to produce the best bearing available. I'll try and take some pics later.

AlfaGTV
06-01-2016, 17:16
Goodie! Following this thread with great interest, even though i have nothing to add... Garrard rookie... :)

Wakefield Turntables
06-01-2016, 19:13
Thanks Mike, what you got?

Well tomorrow is yet another day and yet another load of stuff going off on the 301. Tomorrow hopefully see's the costings of some new Yannis Tome tonearm cabling. So, it looks like it might be goodbye Nordost hello Yannis. I'm probably going to do some experimentation with the Yannis tonearm cable that I already own. I'll probably do some listening over the weekend to see if it's better on the 301 compared to the Nordost. Certainly the yannis cable sounded better on the 1210 compared to the nordost cable. I'll hopefully be speaking to Loricraft and doing some cleaning of the 50hz pulley. Loads to do in the search of perfecting the 301!

AlfaGTV
06-01-2016, 23:29
Ah, no Garrard at all but deffo would grab any 301/401 if the opportunity was given!
Playing mostly on my Michell Orbe SE/SME V/Nordost Tyr but also have an SL-1210MkII with OriginLive armboard and AudioOrigami RB250. And to make sure i have something to fiddle with i have a Lenco L75 and a Thorens TD-125 MkII waiting to be re-plinthed!

Wakefield Turntables
07-01-2016, 09:22
Have you tried the V and Tyr combo on your 1210? Its a combo I used on my 1210 for ages and found it to be a good match, the TYR then went onto the 301. I'm thinking of getting rid of the TYR for some Yannis Tome goodies!

Wakefield Turntables
07-01-2016, 19:59
I had a fantastic 40 minute conversation with Terry over at Loricraft today. I was mainly interested in getting the 301 bearing upto 501 bearing spec and was promptly told not to bother! Terry seemed to think that the mods available via Dr. Bastin were just as good as anything currently out there, he effectively talked me out of not giving him £500! I also found out the Nigel's Speed Controller was also designed by the same who produced Loricrafts own PSU!!!! :eek: Now here's the interesting thing. I happened top mention I'd removed the eddy brake disc from the 301, now to my surprise I was told that this would speed up the 301 by 2% and I'd be running over 34rpm. As stated in a previous post I decided to buy a Tachometer to test the accuracy of my 301 platter speed. You can buy one from ebay simply by searching in the sound and vision section and typing "tachometer" they range in price from £10-30. I think I paid £25 I could have got it cheaper but decided I wanted one sooner rather than six weeks later from China. Well after a little messing around I found that my 301 was running at bang on 34rpm or ~1.75% quicker than normal.

15992


The Tachometer did rely on a reflective strip and the tachometer has to be LEVEL when taking a reading other than that I would heartily recommend spending the £25. The laser is reliant on the reflective strip and being flat.

15993

Finally this is the Tachometer I bought

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This little experiment has taught my a few important things. Firstly you don't need to spend £1000's on fancy speed controllers and that secondly a lot of the after market bearings for the 301 are just over priced reverse egineered copies of the origin Garrard 301 bearing, in fact even the 501 bearing varies very little from the original 301 bearing according to Terry at Lorifcraft. More importantly I've learned the guys at Loricraft really know their onions. I think that I really must get the Nigels Speed Controller built as this is slowing down the progression of the 301. So tomorrow night might be an evening spent reading the various threads over on Lenco Heaven and then hopefully sometime over the weekend ordering the parts. Experiments with the 401 bearing are still around the corner. The 301 sounds very very good but I just wonder what it'll sound like with an exact rotating 33.3rpm platter and the 401 bearing in place. :scratch:

Reffc
15-01-2016, 08:00
My experience Andy after working on a lot of Garrards is that they are best left standard, or as standard as possible because they just work, and work well. The only mod I'd ever consider is to strip the linkages (Cadmium plated on the 301) and have them acid dipped and zinc plated instead, plus maybe have the chassis re-enamelled. That and a wiring check plus motor overhauls is usually all these decks really need (ditto 401). They were made to last and lots of the so called "upgrades" out there are just ways of people being relieved of their hard earned; that or adding "bling" which means they're no longer standard examples. Most who deal with these will tell you that the standard bearings and drive system is probably the best so little point in spending a fortune on after market items, some of dubious value. Cleaning the inside idler running face of the platter and checking idler wheel bushings for wear is worthwhile, (replacing bushings if needed) and I've also found that renewing motor suspension springs and dampers is worthwhile (holds the motor properly aligned and cuts down on noise). As you've found, there's a lot of inter-web rot spread about so called "upgrades" like pulling the eddy brake out of use, which is nuts when its sole purpose is to regulate speed control! Any blame for worsening of vibration is usually in the heads of the purps spreading these recommendations instead of checking for bearing play! A decent service and getting them into a decent plinth is usually all any of them will ever need until they eventually wear out (long after we're gone!). Mine's been going 44 years!

Wakefield Turntables
15-01-2016, 10:03
My experience Andy after working on a lot of Garrards is that they are best left standard, or as standard as possible because they just work, and work well. The only mod I'd ever consider is to strip the linkages (Cadmium plated on the 301) and have them acid dipped and zinc plated instead, plus maybe have the chassis re-enamelled. That and a wiring check plus motor overhauls is usually all these decks really need (ditto 401). They were made to last and lots of the so called "upgrades" out there are just ways of people being relieved of their hard earned; that or adding "bling" which means they're no longer standard examples. Most who deal with these will tell you that the standard bearings and drive system is probably the best so little point in spending a fortune on after market items, some of dubious value. Cleaning the inside idler running face of the platter and checking idler wheel bushings for wear is worthwhile, (replacing bushings if needed) and I've also found that renewing motor suspension springs and dampers is worthwhile (holds the motor properly aligned and cuts down on noise). As you've found, there's a lot of inter-web rot spread about so called "upgrades" like pulling the eddy brake out of use, which is nuts when its sole purpose is to regulate speed control! Any blame for worsening of vibration is usually in the heads of the purps spreading these recommendations instead of checking for bearing play! A decent service and getting them into a decent plinth is usually all any of them will ever need until they eventually wear out (long after we're gone!). Mine's been going 44 years!

Hi Paul,

Nice to hear from you again. I would agree with 100% of what you say. This project has been nearly 5 years in the making! I've left the deck standard, I've removed the Cadmium and not bothered to Re-Zinc them as it's only me that's going to see the links. The Chassis has x1 small ding but that's part of its character! The wiring is ok and I've overhauled the motor. As you can see no additional "bling" has been added. The bearing has been "Bastin'd" but this has been fully endorsed by several "Guru's" so I'm happy with that mod. The Idler wheel is probably where I should spend some attention. Terry @ Lorricraft gave me some simple advice suggesting 95% of Idler wheel's should be ok as well as the bearings and bushes, mine looks pretty good. I shall at some point be cleaning the idler wheel with meth-spritit and re-lubing with vaseline to keep its plascitity (sic:scratch:?). Anything that's removed will US cleaned and then replaced. I'm still going to go ahead with the speed controller as I thing this to be a very important aspect to the running of the machine.

PS This 301 powers The speakers & XO's you designed for me!

PPS I'll be ordering some new XO's (THE ULTIMATES!), when I've finished the raft of DIY projects (mainly speaker refurbs and building of a new hifi rack).

Wakefield Turntables
19-01-2016, 21:35
I managed to find a couple of hours tonight to mess around with the 301 and today I decided to rebuild the Idler wheel housing, give the idler wheel a good clean (especially the leading edge of the wheel), reinstall the idler brake, and ultrasonically clean everything that can be cleaned. The ultrasonic cleaner is something I didn't own originally so as I strip the deck down I'll ultrasonically clean as I go. Time for some pix!

Idler housing dismantled and ready for installation of idler wheel break and a good clean whilst I've access to it.

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Pulley wheel being ultrasonically cleaned.

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Idler wheel, screw and housing mount all being cleaned.

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The idler wheel, housing mount and screw recieved a very good clean when I first rebuilt the deck but I think I missed some muck!

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Deck rebuilt and now spinning at smack on 33.3 rpm.

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I've learned a couple of things. Firstly I could detect no difference between listening with or without the idler wheel break so I reinstalled it. Secondly I've heard several stories of 301's sounding better with a little eddy break current applied. Without the idler wheel disc my deck span +1.75% fast, re-installed and with a small amount of eddy current brake applied I'm spinning at 33.3RPM. I wonder if the vast majority of 301's spin a little fast, hence the advice of applying the eddy current brake. This deck is now running 0.01% slow, which TBH is good enough for me. Hopefully I'll get my act together and order the NSC parts. The 301 now sounds silent as the platter spins, I'll have to get the stethoscopw out and have a listen when I get a little more time. This little mini service appears to have given the 301 a new lease of life.

Wakefield Turntables
21-01-2016, 21:06
Another day another update.

This time its time to service the 401 bearing I intend to fit on the 301. Why bother you ask?

Well I have a very nice bearing modified by Martin Bastin but when this came up on eBay for £125 I couldn't resist. It's widely considered to be a better bearing than the 301 with better rumble figures and can with a little modification be retrofitted directly onto the 301. As always with eBay it's a risk when buying so this was a complete punt. This bearing came plenty dirty and needed a lot of cleaning.

Loads of metal polish later we have a pretty clean bearing housing.

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Wakefield Turntables
21-01-2016, 21:12
Next because I'm a complete geek, I strip all the screws out, clean them with IPA, ultrasonically clean them and them clean them with metal polish. The bolt threads are minty clean!

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We now need to go a little deeper into the bearing to get the thrust pad and spindle.

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The above pictures show the spindle being US cleaned. The thrust plad has been examined and is very good order, the spindle has also been ultrasonically cleaned as well as freshly polished. The thrust pad has been cleaned with IPA, US cleaned, and then polished.

Wakefield Turntables
21-01-2016, 21:18
Finally we have a few more things left to do.

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The spindle base has been examined and found to be in very good condition this was later polished. The spindle circlips were found to be fine and not warped so these remained. The paper gasket is well past it so this will be skipped. I have ordered a new wool felt ring for the top of the bearing and a new paper gasket. The bearing spindle will be lubricated and then I shall have to design a simple base plate to install under the bearing. The felt wool ring will be left to absorb oil supplied by Martin Bastin. The 401 bearing is a little lower than the 301 bearing and if not slightly heightened causes the platter to rub on the chasis (not good for paint work).

A.Grail
21-01-2016, 22:15
it's been a while since I checked in and it Looks like the project is coming on! In order to test the bushes of the idler ensure the screw on the top of the idler housing is secure then place your fingers in the 12 & 6 O'clock position on the outside of the idler wheel and use an alternate rocking motion - If you feel movement the bushes are worn - also check the 9 & 3 o'clock position (In effect you will have now covered n,s,e and west) as the idler wheel connects to the pulley in a fixed position the pressure over time causes the bushes to 'oval' which can lead to the idler riding the inside of the rim and causing a couple of issues including noise.
The same procedure should be done with the platter in place: place the heel of your palms on the outer top on the platter in the 12 & 6 position and alternate pressure, then try 3 and 9 o'clock if there is any sound the bearing bushes are worn.
Matt

Wakefield Turntables
22-01-2016, 10:54
it's been a while since I checked in and it Looks like the project is coming on! In order to test the bushes of the idler ensure the screw on the top of the idler housing is secure then place your fingers in the 12 & 6 O'clock position on the outside of the idler wheel and use an alternate rocking motion - If you feel movement the bushes are worn - also check the 9 & 3 o'clock position (In effect you will have now covered n,s,e and west) as the idler wheel connects to the pulley in a fixed position the pressure over time causes the bushes to 'oval' which can lead to the idler riding the inside of the rim and causing a couple of issues including noise.
The same procedure should be done with the platter in place: place the heel of your palms on the outer top on the platter in the 12 & 6 position and alternate pressure, then try 3 and 9 o'clock if there is any sound the bearing bushes are worn.
Matt

Hi Matt, nice to hear from you again. I've been mainly experimenting with some of the rumours and mods that persist on the net about how to "improve" the 301 and the more I experiment the more I realise that it's actually pretty perfect as it is. Your sagely advice is always welcome and the Idler wheel shall be tested tonight when I have a little time. I'm prototyping a bearing housing at the moment just to raise the bearing several mm's higher so that it'll work on the 301, next stage really is the external PSU. I honestly don't think that I can do much more to this deck. Maybe it might be time for something else?

A.Grail
23-01-2016, 07:42
The funny thing is there are lots of avenues to explore. The best thing is probably motor detachment and arm isolation - The inert resin / bentonite clay plinth was a breakthrough as was the Tenuto mat. The motor cage could well be improved and I did for a while look into the motor suspension - springs could be replaced with correctly sized silicone or similar bands (V expensive to have molds made etc). Bearing clamp, chassis stiffening with a 'P' plate, Non trad bearings (air etc). Minus-K or Vibroplane isolation - even the Townshend feet are fun to play with. A basic wall shelf can pay dividends. Bush tolerances are worth the attention - The list and sadly the expense can be a tad endless.

Wakefield Turntables
28-01-2016, 22:16
Idler wheel oiled, bushes checked (no give), bearing checked (no give), 401 bearing installed alongside homemade bearing isolation system (3 nuts :rofl:). 301 has now been spinning the platter for an hour so freshly oiled and serviced bearing should be bedding in nicely. I've noticed I need less speed correction and the platter and 301 seem to be running silently. I'll need a good listen then it's the external PSU and motor isolation!

Wakefield Turntables
31-01-2016, 14:50
I've had chance to have a good listen to the new modded 301 with the freshly serviced Garrard 401 bearing and restripped built Idler housing/wheel. I additionally stripped out my old Van Damme 6mm2 copper cable and replaced with simple solid silver 3mm solid core. Well the differences are not subtle. The 301 now seems to dig deeper into my records. The presentation has changed as well and seems more to have taken on a more muscular presentation. I noticed a very similar thing occur when I shifted my 1210's bearing over to the MN bearing, so I think a lot has to do with the bearing. I now have a full loom of silver in the wiring and this has had the effect of slightly improving and "sharpening" the presentation of the music. The VanDamme is fantastic cable but I think it maybe softened the presentation slightly. I'm still getting used to the presentation, I'm happy with the way things have turned out. I'm now going to do some more mini tweaks to the deck and speaker cables, mainly optimising length of the cables.

Wakefield Turntables
31-01-2016, 14:57
Tenuto mat next on the wish list. :eyebrows:

AlfaGTV
31-01-2016, 17:24
Good job done right, then! :)

What are you doing with 6mm2 cable in a recordplayer? Or are you referring to external power cabling?
Sorry for being thick.. And inquisitive! ;)

Wakefield Turntables
31-01-2016, 18:11
Good job done right, then! :)

What are you doing with 6mm2 cable in a recordplayer? Or are you referring to external power cabling?
Sorry for being thick.. And inquisitive! ;)

The VanDamme with the speaker cable that I've been using, I should have mentioned! The tweaks continue tonight, I'm playing around with the earthing arrangements between the various boxes in the valve system. Earthing should be star-earthed, this is difficult as the old binding post on the Croft will at a push accept 3 earth spades. Currently, my x2 sets of IC's and tonearm just don't quite make it. The power into the 301 needs properly earthing, but this is a job for tomorrow.