Garrard 301 restoration project

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tenuto Mat now sourced and on its way. Earthing experiments tonight:eyebrows:.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Another day another upgrade! Taking no prisoners in the upgrading of the 301 I decided to let the fire power of my wallet do the talking and ordered the full setup from Pheonix Egineering in the good'ol USofA. http://www.phoenix-engr.com/#!/page_Eagle I honestly could not be bothered pissing around builiding a speed controller. The Pheonix looks a quality piece of kit and additionally can be used on any decks that I may wish to refurb/experiment with in the future. :D. Not much left now to do on the 301, motor detachment beckons. :eek:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tenuto arrived, will have a play tonight.

[Wakefield Turntables]

omg! The Tenuto is a revelation. Expect a MEGA review of this mat in the next few days. :cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Tenuto gun metal platter mat has now surpassed my old Garrard 301 mat which has now been put out to pasture.

16134

The new mat looks a treat. I'm now awaiting the new external PSU from Pheonix Egineering in the USA. The new PSU should lead to some optimising of power cable length and provide me with an oppotunity to improve the current earthing situation. I'll wait to do these tweeks when I get the PSU and tachometer. I'm just gonna sit back now and get used to the new platter mat's sound.

[AlfaGTV]

Looking stunning! Such a classic!

What material is the platter mat made from? Brass only?

Congrats on a very drool-worthy spinner :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thanks Mike. I'm not sure what the mat is made from. Matt from Audiograil suggested I try one and there is supposed to be a newer 5mm version coming out soon.

[A.Grail]

The Tenuto, is made from Gun metal a material which Micro Seiki experimented with to great effect in a number of their platters. In addition to the Tenuto's composition the profile of the mat is a major contributing factor to it's 'sound'. The 1mm drop from run in to run out groove enables the record to 'sit' correctly. At first glance the Tenuto is a simple profiled disk however machining the Tenuto is not as straight forward as it might appear.

The new 5mm Tenuto is proving to be very interesting. I believe stock will become available in the not too distant future

[Wakefield Turntables]

Looks like my PSU and Tachometer have arrived from the USA and are now sitting in London :yay:. Probably get them next week some time and then it's platter stability to 1000th of a single percent. I'm nearing then end of my 301 journey. :wah:

[Jimbo]

Another day another upgrade! Taking no prisoners in the upgrading of the 301 I decided to let the fire power of my wallet do the talking and ordered the full setup from Pheonix Egineering in the good'ol USofA. http://www.phoenix-engr.com/#!/page_Eagle I honestly could not be bothered pissing around builiding a speed controller. The Pheonix looks a quality piece of kit and additionally can be used on any decks that I may wish to refurb/experiment with in the future. :D. Not much left now to do on the 301, motor detachment beckons. :eek:


The phoenix engineering speed controllers are superb and great SPPV:thumbsup:

[Wakefield Turntables]

The phoenix engineering speed controllers are superb and great SPPV:thumbsup:

Thanks Jim, there are numerous reasons why I plumped for these, I'll go through things when I've had chance to set up and then have an extremely good listen to LOTS of different music. I've got the Tenuto's sonic presentation weight up so it should be easy to see have this upgrade adds any benefits to the 301. Stay tooned.

[sq225917]

A quality PSU Andy, would be my choice for your deck also.

[Wakefield Turntables]

A quality PSU Andy, would be my choice for your deck also.

Thanks mate, that means a lot. The Paradise is sounding fantastic incidently.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well the PSU's still not here, hopefully by the end of this week. I've got a few small tweaks to perform, mainly :-

1. Decouple motor
2. Better earthing.
3. Optimised the cable lengths
4. Very discrete vibration dampening.
5. 1.5mm silicone mat for the Tenuto platter mat

option 4 is the most interesting, I'll probably review every area on the 301 where discrete vibration dampening can be employed. The research will start in another 5-6 weeks. Now I'll enjoy the new PSU with my new Jazz vinyl and then start tweeking again!

[dmckean]

The Tenuto gun metal platter mat has now surpassed my old Garrard 301 mat which has now been put out to pasture.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16134&d=1454617462

The new mat looks a treat. I'm now awaiting the new external PSU from Pheonix Egineering in the USA. The new PSU should lead to some optimising of power cable length and provide me with an oppotunity to improve the current earthing situation. I'll wait to do these tweeks when I get the PSU and tachometer. I'm just gonna sit back now and get used to the new platter mat's sound.

Wow, that looks great!

[Jimbo]

ANdy where did get your Phoenix PSU and Roadrunner from?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Wow, that looks great!

Many thanks Dave.


ANdy where did get your Phoenix PSU and Roadrunner from?

Hi Jim, I ordered straight from Pheonix in the good old US of A. I ordered about one week ago, the system in the UK and has been stuck in customs for the last three days :rolleyes:. If your after one with a bit more poke you'll need to order the 25W version and you can only purchase it direct from Pheonix. I'll have to suck up the import tax but I see the PSU & Tachometer as an investment which I can use again and again should I choose to restore/own similar decks.

[Jimbo]

Many thanks Dave.



Hi Jim, I ordered straight from Pheonix in the good old US of A. I ordered about one week ago, the system in the UK and has been stuck in customs for the last three days :rolleyes:. If your after one with a bit more poke you'll need to order the 25W version and you can only purchase it direct from Pheonix. I'll have to suck up the import tax but I see the PSU & Tachometer as an investment which I can use again and again should I choose to restore/own similar decks.

It will be worth it Andy, I will probably go down this route soon as its a no brainer for the VPI. Loads of guys in USA run their VPI Scouts with this PSU.

A few folk are using it run Lenco's now so not surprised your using it with the 301.

Look forward to hear how you get on. Any news on the Croft yet?

[Wakefield Turntables]

It will be worth it Andy, I will probably go down this route soon as its a no brainer for the VPI. Loads of guys in USA run their VPI Scouts with this PSU.

A few folk are using it run Lenco's now so not surprised your using it with the 301.

Look forward to hear how you get on. Any news on the Croft yet?

You'll be looking at around £650-700 all in including courier fees, taxes etc. I actually got the idea from LencoHeaven and after a load of emails to Bill (the guy who owns the company) I decided to take the plunge. There is a cheaper version available which is being prototyped over at http://mate-labs.de/magicquartz/ which does exactly the same as what I've just bought but you have to build yourself and there is no release date. I just got fed up of waiting around so I did my research and bought from Pheonix. I like the idea of having plenty of Watts to push the old 301 around and additionally love the idea of a self regulated speed stability to with 0.001% accuracy, coupled with the ability to shift from deck to deck was a no brainer. The 301 should experience a greater ability to deliver note pitch stability, a bit like the 1210 I own. The Croft is an on going saga I'm afraid. I need to get my Sondex S100 amp serviced and then possibly rebiased to take K120 ot K150's :fingers: and then the Charisma is going to get mega pimped. The 301 has taken over, I still have a pair of Heybrook speakers to finish refurbishing and a DECCA tonearm to rewire....!!!!!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well the PSU finally cleared customs today, nine F****** days? :steam: So, it may be fitted by the very end of this week if I'm lucky.

[sq225917]

Cool, am interested to hear how the new psu sounds once you have it up and running.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Si,

id id love to hear the bloody thing as well !!! I'll be posting a review and some pix when I've had chance to ascertain the psu's sonic characteristics. Your always welcome to pop over again at some time, maybe fetch your paradise as well and we can compare fancy components from the USA?

andy

[sq225917]

Can do.

[Wakefield Turntables]

PSU & Tachometer finally arriving tomorrow after I paid the thick end of £150 import tax :steam:. Hopefully get some pix up tomorrow or Friday.

[Wakefield Turntables]

They have arrived and are extremely tiny. I will post some pix tonight.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well it's all been setup and working, however I will have to raise the platter an additional 1-2mm due to the way the sensor on the Tachometer works. I have one or two complaints. I've have to get a USA/UK plug convertor (I had a spare in the office), secondly I've had to chop off the power lead IEC so bare wires could be attached directly to the 301's motor. I've had the platter spinning at 45.0000 rpm +/- 0.001-2 rpm so it all looks good. I've not heard any music yet but that pleasure will hopefully occur tomorrow. I'll probably make some dampening rings for the bearing whilst taking the oppotunity to rise it another 1-2mm. More tomorrow.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've had the new PSU & Tachometer working today. I had to add an additional 1mm washer under the 401 bearing so the sensor had enough clearence distance and BINGO! I've now had the thing running for about 45 minutes and it's as steady as a rock. I've just played one side of vinyl (Andrew Lloyd Webber - Variations) and it sounds rock solid lots of things coming into the soundstage that I've not heard before. I really do need a good hour or two listening to some of my old stuff but first impressions are extremely encouraging. :cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

NEW UPGRADE ALERT!

Pheonix Engineering Tachometer and Roadrunner PSU (25W) version.

I've had the new PSU & Tachometer strapped in new for several days and it looks like this.

16228

The boxes are very very small but thats extremely useful as they dont take up much space and sit straight under the 301. I can now select 35/45 RPM at a whim and have complete rock solid platter speed control to within 0.001 RPM. As demonstrated here.

Eye's down, all the three's...

16229

I've still not properly optimised my cable management yet :doh:

16230

The Tachometer works by fitting an extremely small magnet under the rim of the platter. A small PCB with a small sensor measures the speed of the magnet every platter rotation and updates the Tachometer speed is automatically adjusted.

16231

The PSU power lead had to be modified so that I could connect it to my UN-IEC based 301, I simply chopped off the IEC plug, stripped the PSU lead wires bare and connected to the 301. Remember the Yanks colour code mains leads different to us Brits ;). Power lead also needs fixing...

16232

Now how does it sound, well in a word STUNNING!

[Jimbo]

NEW UPGRADE ALERT!

Pheonix Engineering Tachometer and Roadrunner PSU (25W) version.

I've had the new PSU & Tachometer strapped in new for several days and it looks like this.

16228

The boxes are very very small but thats extremely useful as they dont take up much space and sit straight under the 301. I can now select 35/45 RPM at a whim and have complete rock solid platter speed control to within 0.001 RPM. As demonstrated here.

Eye's down, all the three's...

16229

I've still not properly optimised my cable management yet :doh:

16230

The Tachometer works by fitting an extremely small magnet under the rim of the platter. A small PCB with a small sensor measures the speed of the magnet every platter rotation and updates the Tachometer speed is automatically adjusted.

16231

The PSU power lead had to be modified so that I could connect it to my UN-IEC based 301, I simply chopped off the IEC plug, stripped the PSU lead wires bare and connected to the 301. Remember the Yanks colour code mains leads different to us Brits ;). Power lead also needs fixing...

16232

Now how does it sound, well in a word STUNNING!

Good job Andy, thought they would make a difference. They are a no brainer on the rubber band VPI turntables but I have heard good things with Lenco TT and now you have found it makes a worthwhile difference with the 301.:cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Good job Andy, thought they would make a difference. They are a no brainer on the rubber band VPI turntables but I have heard good things with Lenco TT and now you have found it makes a worthwhile difference with the 301.:cool:

Jim, I've now posted a little mini review.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Another hour, another upgrade!

Just bought one of these https://www.divineaudio.co.uk/analogue-works-grey-silicone-rubber-turntable-gimp-mat to see if we can get more out of the Tenuto.

[Wakefield Turntables]

First impressions of the 1"" gimp mat + tenuto platter mat are not good :(. I think the combination actually dampens the sound and reminds me of when I over dampened the 1210. I honestly didn't think that you could over dampen a garrard 301 but it looks like that's the case. I need more time listening tbh and with a greater genre of music. This looks like one avenue of improvement that has finally come to and end. I think I need to concentrate on motor decoupling and discrete vibration suppression. Ah well upwards and onwards.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hmmmm the 301 has had a little ground loop hum every since I installed the Pheonix PSU. I've dismanted the 301 today and found a ?dry solder joint in the 3012 + Pheonix needed a small mod to add a grounding wire. So a little soldering and the Pheonix PSU lead now has a seperate ground wire. The 3012 will get sorted out tomorrow. And there ends another small job from the list of actually grounding the PSU. Next I want one of these plinths... https://www.facebook.com/RJC-Audio-258131837638661/ maybe I might one for :christmas:???!!!!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Now just need to decouple that bloody motor.

[A.Grail]

Now just need to decouple that bloody motor.
Buy one of those and it's all done for you :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Buy one of those and it's all done for you :)

There is a small matter of £4K Matt :wah: , but if you have a spare plinth going on the cheap or better still, simply give me yours!. Sometimes things seems to go from bad to worse. The ground loop hum has been solved but it not looks like the 3012 is buggered for the time being, lost all output to left channel! Soldering iron needs to come out tomorrow.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Out with the old

16552165531655416555

The Nordost Tyr tonearm cable is going and is to be replaced by Yannis Tome 423.5 Phonolitz (Plus) tonearm cable :drool: not even my 1210 has one of these!

http://www.back-promo.co.uk/html/423_5phono-litz_plus.html

My 301 is now sitting lonely, it has no tonearm and no tonearm cable attached :(.

[Moko]

A couple of ideas for you from the Scalford show I spent a lot of time talking to a guy called Jay in the Lenco room who was running a modified 301, he made a separate motor pod from cast kitty litter which sat under his deck completely unattached to the main plinth which he claimed reduced vibrations put into the deck....certainly sounded good might be worth further investigation.

The other thing I saw was a platter mat made from a specially dampened steel by a company specialising in industrial noise/vibration control called S.D.S the demos looked interesting for the platter mat and I might try to get one myself

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi David,

ive seen jays thread over on lenco heaven, I was planning something similar. The SDS platter mat is something I've seen and tried I preferred the tenuto.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The 301 is going to at some point have a new plinth built. Now, do I wait and wait for a Bentonite based one to crop up or do I try Panzerholz? The cost of a custom made Bentonite is large (several thousand). I'm going to have to make a few phone calls next week and get some prices for Panzerholz and them have a word with maybe Russ Collinson to create something for me. I'll probably get a decoupled motor section built in which will be based around Martin Bastin designs and I'll probably get the SME cut out spacer re-fabricated from Panzerholz so that it's part of the plinth rather than a seperate bolted on spacer as it now. The 3012 tonearm is now with J7 @ AO. The Panzerholz plinth coming to frution means that this could be the end of this 301's journey. I suppose the only future updates to this thread will be boring stuff like new tonearms or carts!

[Ammonite Audio]

The machining time for Panzerholz is epic, so don't expect that option to be cheap. I'd go for a material that's naturally well damped and acoustically homegenous in all directions, which means that energy is dissipated consistetnly, rather than being reflected between layers. My recommendation? Chipboard - people tend to sneer at chipboard, but it's actually a nice material in the acoustic sense (not to be confused with MDF).

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hugo,

Yeah I guess Panzerholz would be expensive but I see as my final destination, I've looked long and hard at various designs materials and I think this could be what I'm looking for. My other alternatives are Bentonite which is even more expensive or even a sandwhich or differing materials i.e. Panzerholz+Aluminium which would probably be even more expensive. So, it's a compromise bewteen cost and accepting a small decrease in material performance. I've still got the rest of the valve system to pay for. :(

Andy

[Wakefield Turntables]

Heavily contemplating a Bob Cusworth plinth. Just had a pretty in depth chat and this could be the 301s final plinth and my Birthday pressie for this year. :D

[Woodsong Audio]

Panzerholz is not that difficult to work with , given proper tools. I have used Panzerholz in my plinths, for years. It is more difficult than Baltic Birch ply, yes, but not terribly so.

[eu_73]

Panzerholz is not that difficult to work with , given proper tools. I have used Panzerholz in my plinths, for years. It is more difficult than Baltic Birch ply, yes, but not terribly so.

Hi Chris,
your plinths are really beautiful, congratulations! :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Yannis Tome 420.5 litz tonearm cable now on its way, photos to follow. :eek:

[Woodsong Audio]

Hi Chris,
your plinths are really beautiful, congratulations! :)

Thank you..

[Woodsong Audio]

Bentonite and polyester resin is easier to work with than Panzerholz, with proper tooling, and slightly more versatile. I am integrating it into a new line of plinths.

[Wakefield Turntables]

New tonearm cable.

166851668616687

:eek:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Another day passes and a few more ideas. I thought about adding discrete vibration control to the 301 but you have to be careful. Too much dampening can cause the music to sound drab and lifeless. So I thought about adding valve damper rings around the 401 bearing spindle housing. I also wondered if pitch stability could be improved on the 301 by adding more magnets on the underside of the platter to update the RoadRunner PSU at a faster rate. Both should be pretty easy to test out and fairly cheap to implement. I'll be adding some thoughts on the new Yannis 420.5 litz tonearm cable.

[Woodsong Audio]

Rexton, if you are thinking about valve damper rings on a stock Garrard bearing housing, 301, or 401, I suggest investing in a granite plate, a V-block long enough to support the spindle, a dial indicator that measures 'tenths', and some precision gauge pins that correspond with the bore of the Garrard bearing housing. Measure the spindle tolerances, and the housing design. The stock 301/401 bearings were engineered with longevity, AND ease of manufacturing in mind. At that, they excel. The experience of the brand shines through, in that respect. In terms of a great turntable bearing, the 301/401 bearing is a weak link. That bearing is a turd, aside from the fact that they last forever, abused even. Careful measurements will cut through the inaccurate words of parrots, and the 'intentioned', no matter who they are. Precision measurements and engineering formulae are fairly believable, assuming that a proper turntable bearing design does not call for a wobbly, changing axis.


There are some aftermarket bearings for the 301/ 401, that suck, but be careful in thinking that the stock 301/401 bearing is the best available bearing for these decks, as it is not.

I have measured many stock 301/401 bearings, seeing an average of between 0.005" - 0.008" of side to side 'play' in the spindle, measured dry, at the tip of the spindle, with a dial indicator on a granite plate. The spindles themselves are measurably not straight ( as are at least 3 examples of commercially available aftermarket bearing spindles which are equally poor, or even worse than the stock spindles) 0.005" - 0.008", as a tolerance, is much, much bigger than the engineering figures call for, for an 'ideal', audiophile bearing, with the rpm/ load/ weight / drag figures of a theoretical bearing such as the 301/401 bearing call for, with the suggested oil viscosity of SAE 30wt, and the size of it's molecular structure. This tolerance was engineered to allow for ease in production, longevity, and manufacturing inaccuracies therein, not, !, to enable a 'top level' audiophile bearing. The closer the tolerance, the more room for error.


Then, there is the question of what is the 'best' bushing material? Best for what? Longevity? or sound? or both?

I know that there is better, as it is sitting on my rack right now. I have heard it on numerous decks now.


I have heard it mentioned that, the 301/401 bearing 'does not (really) matter', as it is 'quieter' than the level of noise of the motor, which is one of the major considerations in the ultimate audiophile performance of the 301/401. What is missed in that proclamation, is that the bearing also is a path of transmission of motor noise, to the platter (through 'boundary condition' metal to metal contact between the spindle and the bushings). Mechanical idler wheel/platter noise, as well. A quiet bearing is great. A bearing that spins very, very true to it's axis, is great. One that achieves both, and also, filters/ diminishes transmission of mechanical noise to the platter from both the motor, and other mechanical sources of noise in the 301/401, through mechanical impedence 'filtering', is another step beyond in audiophile performance of the 301/401.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi Chris ,

why not post some pictures to validate your findings and the products that you mention? I add to the thread tonight when I've finished work.

Andrew

[Woodsong Audio]

Yes, photos can help, but video is better for showing the actuation of a dial indicator, and it's setup. I made a video of one particularly bad example of a stock 301 shaft, showing inaccuracy in it's taper, and that it was not straight, but I cannot find it, at the moment. I am about to be away on a fishing trip for 2 weeks, very soon, so no possibility of anything new in the interim.

The 'play' I mentioned in the stock bearing is easily observable, just pull the platter, and rock the bearing shaft with your fingers. Even with the oil, it is clearly visible in the stock bearing.

Photos and video are one way of showing a bearing, especially in documenting tolerances using precision measuring equipment. Listening is critical. Lastly, long term observation of wear is also critical, as if it does not last, it does not matter how it sounds 'out of the gate'. I have these running in my shop now, with one that has been running at 78rpm, 24/7, for over 5 months now. I inspect the spindle regularly, and it is almost exactly as it was when it was installed. Most every deck I build is set up differently, different carts, different arms. With this new bearing, I have installed about a half dozen of them using the stock spindle, the common denominator has been that, these are sounding better than I have ever heard from Garrard based decks.

I have been working with the Garrards for the past 10 years, listening and observing. The past 2 years I have been working on a bearing. It is not yet fully complete, but as it is designed around a spindle of exact stock dimensions, I have them running now. The housings are complete, the spindles are not.

Every aftermarket Garrard bearing I have seen, have used balls for thrust bearings. My bearing does not. I did some initial testing with a sapphire thrust ball, but opted for something different after observing it.

Here is a photo of the housings... This photo does not mean much, as it is the inner details that count most, in a bearing, but it might make you curious.


https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5654/22023888354_7986c817d4_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/zybbH1)



I have enjoyed reading this thread.....

[Wakefield Turntables]

Rexton, if you are thinking about valve damper rings on a stock Garrard bearing housing, 301, or 401, I suggest investing in a granite plate, a V-block long enough to support the spindle, a dial indicator that measures 'tenths', and some precision gauge pins that correspond with the bore of the Garrard bearing housing. Measure the spindle tolerances, and the housing design. The stock 301/401 bearings were engineered with longevity, AND ease of manufacturing in mind. At that, they excel. The experience of the brand shines through, in that respect. In terms of a great turntable bearing, the 301/401 bearing is a weak link. That bearing is a turd, aside from the fact that they last forever, abused even. Careful measurements will cut through the inaccurate words of parrots, and the 'intentioned', no matter who they are. Precision measurements and engineering formulae are fairly believable, assuming that a proper turntable bearing design does not call for a wobbly, changing axis.


There are some aftermarket bearings for the 301/ 401, that suck, but be careful in thinking that the stock 301/401 bearing is the best available bearing for these decks, as it is not.

I have measured many stock 301/401 bearings, seeing an average of between 0.005" - 0.008" of side to side 'play' in the spindle, measured dry, at the tip of the spindle, with a dial indicator on a granite plate. The spindles themselves are measurably not straight ( as are at least 3 examples of commercially available aftermarket bearing spindles which are equally poor, or even worse than the stock spindles) 0.005" - 0.008", as a tolerance, is much, much bigger than the engineering figures call for, for an 'ideal', audiophile bearing, with the rpm/ load/ weight / drag figures of a theoretical bearing such as the 301/401 bearing call for, with the suggested oil viscosity of SAE 30wt, and the size of it's molecular structure. This tolerance was engineered to allow for ease in production, longevity, and manufacturing inaccuracies therein, not, !, to enable a 'top level' audiophile bearing. The closer the tolerance, the more room for error.


Then, there is the question of what is the 'best' bushing material? Best for what? Longevity? or sound? or both?

I know that there is better, as it is sitting on my rack right now. I have heard it on numerous decks now.


I have heard it mentioned that, the 301/401 bearing 'does not (really) matter', as it is 'quieter' than the level of noise of the motor, which is one of the major considerations in the ultimate audiophile performance of the 301/401. What is missed in that proclamation, is that the bearing also is a path of transmission of motor noise, to the platter (through 'boundary condition' metal to metal contact between the spindle and the bushings). Mechanical idler wheel/platter noise, as well. A quiet bearing is great. A bearing that spins very, very true to it's axis, is great. One that achieves both, and also, filters/ diminishes transmission of mechanical noise to the platter from both the motor, and other mechanical sources of noise in the 301/401, through mechanical impedence 'filtering', is another step beyond in audiophile performance of the 301/401.


Yes, photos can help, but video is better for showing the actuation of a dial indicator, and it's setup. I made a video of one particularly bad example of a stock 301 shaft, showing inaccuracy in it's taper, and that it was not straight, but I cannot find it, at the moment. I am about to be away on a fishing trip for 2 weeks, very soon, so no possibility of anything new in the interim.

The 'play' I mentioned in the stock bearing is easily observable, just pull the platter, and rock the bearing shaft with your fingers. Even with the oil, it is clearly visible in the stock bearing.

Photos and video are one way of showing a bearing, especially in documenting tolerances using precision measuring equipment. Listening is critical. Lastly, long term observation of wear is also critical, as if it does not last, it does not matter how it sounds 'out of the gate'. I have these running in my shop now, with one that has been running at 78rpm, 24/7, for over 5 months now. I inspect the spindle regularly, and it is almost exactly as it was when it was installed. Most every deck I build is set up differently, different carts, different arms. With this new bearing, I have installed about a half dozen of them using the stock spindle, the common denominator has been that, these are sounding better than I have ever heard from Garrard based decks.

I have been working with the Garrards for the past 10 years, listening and observing. The past 2 years I have been working on a bearing. It is not yet fully complete, but as it is designed around a spindle of exact stock dimensions, I have them running now. The housings are complete, the spindles are not.

Every aftermarket Garrard bearing I have seen, have used balls for thrust bearings. My bearing does not. I did some initial testing with a sapphire thrust ball, but opted for something different after observing it.

Here is a photo of the housings... This photo does not mean much, as it is the inner details that count most, in a bearing, but it might make you curious.


https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5654/22023888354_7986c817d4_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/zybbH1)



I have enjoyed reading this thread.....

You will have several massive problems shifting those bearings in the UK, firstly import duty & tax, secondly your in the USA. There have been numerous bearing upgrades produced in the UK and we seem to be a sceptical lot over here, we need good quality evidence that what you have to offer actually does what it says on the tin. There have several bearings and upgrades which have promised many things and quite often not delivered or even damaged equipment. The Kokomo bearing upgrades and the Super Red Beard bearing being good examples. There is also the classic turntable company bearing, the Bastin modified bearing, the Loricraft upgraded bearing, the NWA bearing and several others, your in a very crowded market. It's ok quoting tolerances and bearing types but to be completely brutal you need reviews in good quality publications and a collection of people who have used and bought your bearing who can testify that it brings a sonic upgrade. I wish you well with your development and hope it's a massive sucsess. If you need a tester in the uk I'm more than happy to help out.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thats just showing off! :eek:

[Woodsong Audio]

I did not disappear, I have been traveling, and am still in the midst of it. My posts will be very spotty for the next 2 weeks. Time for some much needed vacation!

Thanks for your response, Rexton. Yes, I have seen the work of all of those companies mentioned. I have studied examples of all those bearings, in detail. Being one of the very few builders of Garrards in the US, I see them shipped to me from the various builders from around the world.

All of those bearings, with the exception of the Redbird bearing, use balls as a thrust contact. Mine does not. Nor does my bearing use phosphor bronze, or sintered bronze as a liner.

Cheers!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Have you finished your travels yet Chris?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've just ordered the Orsonic headshell for the 3012 and a lovely solid copper record weight for the 301. Pictures will be posted when they arrive, one part has to come from Japan whilst the other is coming from Sweden.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Orsonic head shell arrived today, looking forward to having a play over the weekend.

[Wakefield Turntables]

17165

A bit of 301 porn, Denon 103M + NOS Orsonic headshell. :drool:

[eu_73]

17165

A bit of 301 porn, Denon 103M + NOS Orsonic headshell. :drool:

Very very nice!
Yesterday was the http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?43382-My-Thorens-TD-124-Mk1-restoration-project&p=763324#post763324 :-)

[Wakefield Turntables]

New toy from Hungary arrived today,pix later.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Hungarian solid copper record weight! :eek:


17218

I needed something better than the Michell clamp I've been using. The Tenuto platter matter renders the clamp unusable in virtual all but the thinest of vinyl pressings so I wanted something to help with warped disc and to try and improve the dB levels of rumble throught the spindle and bearing. This was quite pricey but I just fell in love with it's looks. First listening sessions are proving positive and I think I'm beginning to eek out more detail from my vinyl. I'm happy and have edged the performance of the 301 a little higher. ;)

[take5]

Andrew, Ive just spotted this.

What a beautiful looking turntable set up. I love everything about it. The 301/3012 /SPU look is just perfect, IMHO

Well done.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thanks Brian. The quest to get more out of the 301 continues. Decoupling the motor is the next job (and has been for over a year :doh:). I'm doing up a lenco so the 301 is actually being used to play vinyl. ;)

[Wakefield Turntables]

1780017801

A little more fun with the 301. The fantastic little Shure M55E with JICO elliptical stylus £64 of supreme value for money. The 301 is my main tool for transcribing Jazz and I kid you not this little shure is made for listening to Jazz. It's very detailed, laid back (but not stupidly so), alas the Shure will probably be the main cart on my Lenco. I have something rather special planned for the 301 in the shape of a fully restored and pimped DECCA maroon. Currently the Ortofon Silver Meister is my cart of choice for Jazz and other genre's on the 301. Stay tuned for a mini bake-off review probably in the next 4 weeks or so. :eyebrows:

[Wakefield Turntables]

17818

Could this be the next reference cart on the 301? The DECCA Maroon. I've not heard it yet as it's now boxed up waiting to go to John Wright. I'm REALLY looking forward to hearing this one.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The DECCA Maroon is back and now spinning vinyl on the 301. Setup was very easy and with none of the horror stories associated with DECCA carts. The DECCA is plugged straight into the Croft EPOCH MM stage and is making some very nice sounds. I'm extremely impressed by how close this is getting to the Paradise phonostage. Vocals are as equally impressive as my usual Silver Meister SPU + Paradise phonostage combination. My initial thoughts are that I'm hearing greater detail and piano just seems to have no note wobble, decay is lovely. Surface noise is extremely low. Low level listening appears to be extremely detailed. Drums seem to excel, cymbals seem to shimmer and the "snap" of bongo drums is something else. This cart is somewhat of a revelation.

[Wakefield Turntables]

My 301 is a truly global deck. It's got bit's from all over the world!

The plinth - MOLDOVA
The tonearm - AUSTRALIA
The puck - HUNGARY
The PSU - USA
The Cabling - GREECE
The 301 - Barnsley :lol:

[CornishPasty]

Barnsley, love it!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thanks Ralph!:)

[Riislingen]

Hi Andrew,

Read through your 301 thread. I'm giving my 401 the full make over at the moment, and was curious about the Phoenix project.

Still running it on your 301? And where did you fit the magnet on the platter as to not interfere with the idler?

I'll be putting on a brass platter, so might change thing somewhat as well.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi,

My 301 is slightly different in that I run a Garrard 401 bearing which is mounted on x3 1mm shims to give it enough clearence to work on the 301 and the Pheonix speed controller which still powers my 301. I placed the magnet under the lip of the platter. The PCB is mounted externally just under the platter. I'm listening to it now!

Regards

A

[Riislingen]

Thanks, that's very helpful Andrew - you still running it, suggests the system is good and recommended. I'm waiting for a new oversized bearing from Shaun at Peak Hifi, as the Shindo-style heavy platter will flex and put too much strain on the original. Just thought that with the deck apart, the niftiness of the Phoenix bits, would be a worthwhile contribution.

[Riislingen]

What precision shims did you use for jacking up the bearing?

[Wakefield Turntables]

What precision shims did you use for jacking up the bearing?

Now that's funny! I didn't use precision shims, just three simple 1mm width washers from some nuts and bolts I had sitting in the garage. ;)

[Riislingen]

Yeah, I'm really out of control on this thing :D

I ordered a Phoenix PSU/Tachy set yesterday, let's see how it all works out when I get the deck back together. There's a lip on the motor board surrounding the platter - it might prevent the sensor to sit directly underneath the edge of the platter.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Yeah, I'm really out of control on this thing :D

I ordered a Phoenix PSU/Tachy set yesterday, let's see how it all works out when I get the deck back together. There's a lip on the motor board surrounding the platter - it might prevent the sensor to sit directly underneath the edge of the platter.

That's why you need the shims!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Look at the pictures in post #278 to see how I mounted the PCB which comes with the Pheonix. It dosen't look pretty but it works, I suppose I should mount it under the platter.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Mikkel,

You might find the original bearing design the best of all. I looked into every design that I could find and could find no evidence ANYWHERE that any 3rd party provider of aftermarket bearings for the 301 could do any better (regardless of claims). Slight changes occured in the 401 bearing and to my ears it sounds better than the 301 but this is subjective of course.

[Riislingen]

That's why you need the shims!

I thought that might be the case. But, does the platter have enough overhang for the sensor to be able to get close enough to it? Does that question make sense?

[Riislingen]

Look at the pictures in post #278 to see how I mounted the PCB which comes with the Pheonix. It dosen't look pretty but it works, I suppose I should mount it under the platter.

Wil do. Under, is the other option I'm contemplating, wiring in from under and all.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Been a little while since I updated this thread. I now have a little bamboo isolation project on the go. The results from my other two experiments with my lenco and 1210 have brought very nice improvements for the outlay so I thought why not! It'll be a while before I get round to making the board so stay tuned.

[Barry]

Five and a half years down the road, how close do you think you are now to completion?

Or is it a bit of a Sisyphean project? ;)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Five and a half years down the road, how close do you think you are now to completion?

Or is it a bit of a Sisyphean project? ;)

I'd say that the vast majority (90%) of the deck is complete but there is always something which can be tweaked. I've actually left the 301 in a pretty much vanilla state and not done very many of the mods published. I've a 401 bearing runnning instead of the 301 but that's because I think the 401 bearing is a better than the 301. I've never been a big fan of after market 301 mods as I think this actually then stops the deck being a 301. I'm also have no intenttion of buying these mods due to lack of evidence with respects to any sonic benefits, the dubious nature of some designs and the stupidly high prices that the vast majority of these mods are commanding. So I wouldn't call my task Sisyphean. In some repects the 301 is the boulder that Sisyphus was comdemned to roll but only because there will always be new carts, new platter mats, new tonearms and it's in these areas that I'll probably be tweaking. I do intend at some stage have another look at the 301 and implement some of the tweaks I learned from the Lenco but this will probably be over Summer. Stay tuned. ;)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Garrard Project Part I - Slow boat from China.

I order a load of stuff from China mainly because its cheap and it usually works very well and my favourite spikes for isolation boards happen to hail from China. This latest set cost £20, I laugh when I see similar products in this country advertised at several hundred pounds :lol: the only downside to being a tight arse is the delivery time which is usually several weeks. This project has been rolling on for 5 1/2 years so a few weeks is nothing ;). I managed to source a bamboo board which perfectly matches the footprint of my 301 but is about 10mm thinner than my other experimental attempts, this should be interesting. Stay tuned when I should hopefully have some nice new piccies for the next update.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Garrard 301 Project Pt II - Slow boat from China Arrived

My usage of Bamboo in my system is no secret as I've been very happy with the results with my Lenco 75 and my Technics 1210. I decided to try the same trick under my 301 and I'm pleased to report that for a small outlay of <£50 we have improved the sonics of the deck. I'm now sold on the idea that experimentation with wood has a profund effect upon sonic signature. So what did I hear? Well I noticed greater timbral details, the opening double bass of So What (Miles Davis) went a little deeper, was a little more solid and showed slightly more microdetail than what I'm used to hearing. I'd say that there was a smidge more space bewteen the instruments and a greater solidity to trumpet and bass. Close mic vocals appeared a little more realistic and I once again noted a little more detail when listening to the backgroud noises of the audience. I even noted some mumbling on a Wayne Shorter track by one of the band members that I'd never heard before.



20420

The deck as of May 2017. As ever please stay tuned.................:wave:

[brian2957]

That Garrard 301 is absolutely beautiful Andy . I hope it sounds as good as it looks :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

That Garrard 301 is absolutely beautiful Andy . I hope it sounds as good as it looks :)

Yeah it sounds pretty good, lots more to do. Looks like you've left our vinyl world :(

[Bigman80]

Yeah it sounds pretty good, lots more to do. Looks like you've left our vinyl world :(
Who has left?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[brian2957]

Well not quite Andy . I've thought long and hard about selling the LPs which I have , most of which are new , and I've decided to keep them . So I now need something to play them on and have bought an old Sony turntable to tide me over . I'm trying to get a phono stage fitted to my Croft preamp , however , it's proving a little difficult . If/when a suitable GL75 comes up again I will probably be revisiting your thread :)

[Ali Tait]

Is that a bamboo chopping board Andy?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Who has left?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

Mr. Brian.


Well not quite Andy . I've thought long and hard about selling the LPs which I have , most of which are new , and I've decided to keep them . So I now need something to play them on and have bought an old Sony turntable to tide me over . I'm trying to get a phono stage fitted to my Croft preamp , however , it's proving a little difficult . If/when a suitable GL75 comes up again I will probably be revisiting your thread :)

Ah ha! So your still like the black stuff. The old Japanese DD turntables are some of the best available and there are some real gems and some very over priced stuff as well ;).


Is that a bamboo chopping board Andy?

Yeah just a bamboo chopping board. Sourced from eBay.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well after all my experiments with the Lenco's I had to start again with the 301. So I've bought a new bearing from Malaysia.

http://i.imgur.com/SM9fxbuh.jpg#MiTDI

Cost was very reasonable compared to the stuff floating around on eBay. So, for the price it cost I'm happy because I should be able to get my money back very easily if I don't like what I hear! More when it arrives.

[alphaGT]

Damn that 301 is drop dead gorgeous! And I appreciate you telling us how it sounds, it always irks me when someone shows a cool piece of kit and doesn't elaborate on how it sounds. Good luck on a new preamp, I'm using a Musical Surroundings Phonomena that I picked up for $400, and I've really been eyeing the Jolida JD9. I know you have a million to choose from, but you can't go wrong with either of those, without breaking the bank. But that 'table is down right sexy!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wakefield Turntables]

Damn that 301 is drop dead gorgeous! And I appreciate you telling us how it sounds, it always irks me when someone shows a cool piece of kit and doesn't elaborate on how it sounds. Good luck on a new preamp, I'm using a Musical Surroundings Phonomena that I picked up for $400, and I've really been eyeing the Jolida JD9. I know you have a million to choose from, but you can't go wrong with either of those, without breaking the bank. But that 'table is down right sexy!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Russ, thanks the cool comments! I might be changing the plinth at some point for a 2 arm version but thats another story. I intend to actually see how the decks performing as well and have bought a few pieces of test equipment. I have now have to learn how to use them :). The whole valve system is undergoing something of a overhaul. My Paradise phonostage is being upgraded and so are my Tannoy cross-overs, and I may have a new power amp by the end of the year! Anyway, I'll be keeping the thread updated so stay tuned.

[alphaGT]

Thank you for some good reading! I know you'll be pleased with all your upgrades, sounds like you are making wise choices!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight Update - The Garrard Project Pt III - Bearing up.

The 301 has not recieved a great deal of TLC over the last few years mainly because it's not needed it. This is hobby is strange in that every so often I get compelled to buy something just for the hell of it and the bearing once one such an occasion. The price was miniscule compared to some of the over priced bumph advertised on eBay so I paid my money and took my chances. I'm pleased to say I think I've discovered a giant killer. The new bearing replaces a completely stock Garrard 401 bearing that I refurbished some time ago. The 401 bearing has sat in the 301 and produced many fantastic weeked jazz sessions quitely enjoyed with single malt! The new bearing is a beast as you can see when you compare it to the Garrard 401 stock bearing.

It came delivered in a pipe bomb!

21325


21323

The new bearing has not been without it's problems and currently I have an issue selecting 33.3rpm speed and the tachometer dosen't fully work as I have to reconfigure the height of the bearing. This is actually a good thing because I intend to start implementing some of my mods from the Lenco 75 project onto the 301 and I want to experiment with improved coupling of the bearing to the top plate. I'm probably going to start with some Sorbothane between the top plate and the bearing. I'm hoping this supresses motor vibration into the bearing. I quickly installed it and had a quick listen. It's sublime! Here are a couple of shots of the bearing installed.


21322 21324

So, tomorrow is going to be all about optimising platter height, getting the 33 speed selectror and Tachometer to work. I'll also start some provisional work on making a bearing coupling template out of sorbothane.

As ever. Stay Tuned......... :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights update - The Garrard Project pt IV - So near yet so far.....

The Garrard now spins properly at 33.3rpm I removed my old shims from under the bearing but the downside is that the platter is now catching the Pheonix Tachometer. The problem should be an easy fix which probably revolves around inserting x3 1mm shims under the bearing. The shim experimentation also allows me to recognise the correct thickness for the EVA or Sorbothane bearing "cushion" to try and better couple the bearing to 301 chasis. It's going to be a little trial and error before we get the new bearing and the Tachometer working. I've developed a rather annoying hum which I never used to have and I've managed to snap a connector on the tonearm cable so tomorrow night's job revolves around repairing that and then looking for suitable shims. Life is never dull when your restoring these old decks. I was going to write a few lines aout the performance of the bearing but that's not going to happen for a while so I've got the Garrard running on continual 78rpm to get the new bearing bedded in. The Garrard being out of action is the perfect oppotunity to buy one of these https://www.perfectsound.co.uk/store/3/product/26/ these guys are officially authorised by the owners of Garrard to reproduce Garrard 301 parts and it looks like its a better designed part than the original anyway. So, it's upwards and onwards.

[Marra]

It will be interesting to hear your findings re the new bearing Andy as I have been considering trying one on a GL75 that I am working on.

[Wakefield Turntables]

It will be interesting to hear your findings re the new bearing Andy as I have been considering trying one on a GL75 that I am working on.

Keith, it's going to be some time before the bearing gets a proper review. I've still got to fine tune the bearing height and I have a new idler wheel to fit as well. I've been running the 301 at 78rpm for a few hours each day to try and get the bearing bedded in. I can't advise the '75 version but I can heartily recommend that you buy one from Jolyon over on Lenco Heaven. I run one of his bearings and the bearing clamp he produces on my own '75 and it only took a couple of sides of vinyl to realise that it was something a bit special.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Garrard Project Pt 5 - Plonking stuff back together...

The Garrard has now more or less been put back together again. I've installed the new Idler wheel which arrived today and stored the other away for safe keeping. I also decided to add a little new oil whilst I had chance and give the idler wheel housing a bit of a clean up. I've also get the platter spinning around very nicely at 33.3333 rpm thanks to getting the roadrunner tachometer working again. The bearing is now better coupled to the 301's chassis which I'm hoping should bring some improved sonic benefits. I'm hoping to hear better sonics with the idler wheel as well. I bought the new Idler wheel for the Garrard on the strength of the improvements of the new idler wheel I bought for the Lenco 75. The 301 is still sitting spinning to try and bed the bearing in as much as possible before we do some listening tests. I'm hoping to get the SME 3012 repaired this weekend so I could be hearing some sonics before Saturday night :eek:.

Old versus new idler

21379

Time for a clean up and some TLC.

21380

A bit of oil.

21381

Everything installed, neat and tidy.

21382

Bang on speed tracking to within 1000th of a RPM!

21383


And that is another update completed!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Garrard Project Pt VI - Stuff to think about.

I've been looking at improving the 301 and seeing where I can nick bits of a Garrard 401 and plonk them on the 301. The bearing was the first bit. I tried the 401 bearing, yep better, got the Malaysian jobbie and things improved even more. The motor chasis has been mooted as a weak point of the 301 and now I find that CNC milled solid brass versions are available, I have no idea of cost so that a job for later. The chasis is supposed to flex and you can now buy a new fully CNC milled chasis but could this situation be improved with something like a bearing clamp onto the chasis? I have no idea so I have asked a couple of forum members to see if they can design me something to improve the bearings coupling and maybe negating some of the so called chasis flex? Now the Garrard 401 motor is also supposed to be better than the 301. Now I'd like to try one of those as well. So, why not just buy a 401, well I could but I think I can do all these mods cheaper than buying a 401. If I could find a completely knackered 401, then yes, possibly but for now I'm looking at solutions to improve the 301 as cheaply as possible. So, the quest goes on....

[Marra]

Keith, it's going to be some time before the bearing gets a proper review. I've still got to fine tune the bearing height and I have a new idler wheel to fit as well. I've been running the 301 at 78rpm for a few hours each day to try and get the bearing bedded in. I can't advise the '75 version but I can heartily recommend that you buy one from Jolyon over on Lenco Heaven. I run one of his bearings and the bearing clamp he produces on my own '75 and it only took a couple of sides of vinyl to realise that it was something a bit special.

Thanks Andy plan one it is then.

[Dr Henry Jones]

Just a couple of quick questions -

1. Can anyone recommend decent copper cabling for a rewire of the 301?

2. Is there any specific grease or oil that is especially recommended for the 301?

3. Any specific recommendations for tonearms, I'm looking for synergy between the deck and the tonearm. I have 2 spare to play with, a SME 3009 (improved), and a Michelle Technoarm. I maybe moving over my Audiotechnica cartridge onto the 301 when I get my Ortofon black next year.

Andy
I have one or two idlers including a 301 and to my ears , what makes good synergy is pairing it with a uni pivot tone arm. The 301 is famed for its tight fast bass and timing etc , and unipivots are famed for lovely midrange and sweet treble. Very well worth considering

[Wakefield Turntables]

Blimey all the kit listed in your previously comment has been long sold. I've got a couple of DECCA's and a MK 1 DECCA tonearm sitting around.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Garrard Project pt VII - All settled down.

The 301 has undergone some pretty big changes over the last six weeks. A new bearing and a new idler wheel. I've not commented on them until now because I'm a firm believer in waiting for things ot bed down and occasionally you need to fine tune and tweek these old idlers before you get the best from them. My 301 has been no exception. I've had to rebuild and lube the idler housing mechanism twice and play around with the new SPH bearing but things are finally bedded down. The bearing has had >50 hours usage and the idler wheel probably about 30 hours. The sound has changed from my old 401 bearing which I had mounted on the deck. The deck now seems more assured. I've noticed better timbral qualities to instruments. Stereo seperation has improved no end and instruments seem a little fuller. Soundstage has widened and noise floor has dropped to virtually nothing even on dirty / warped charity shop vinyl which was previously crackle and pop city! I think I've spent a little under £250 for a very nice leap forward in vinyl reproduction. I can't wait to get my Tannoy's back on line and then I should really be able to hear the changes through my valve system. The SPH bearing also enable me cheap entry into replacement platters. I've been looking at one of these http://www.peakhifi.co.uk/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi it's only something to consider at the moment. Right, enough musings, curry awaits....

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Garrard Project Pt VIII - More power experiments.

I decided to spend some more money on a new PSU for the 301. This one varies markedly from the Pheonix Engineering system. It will now be a purely 240V based system rather than having to use a 120 to 240V converter. I hated this system and had many many wires sprawling all over the place. The 301 sounded very good indeed but the new system also allows me to change voltage and also the Hz going into the motor. This new system will also have a tachometer fitted. The new PSU also has some capability to regenerate and clean up the power supply and ultimately will be fed through the P10 regenerator! I've been extremely happy with the results that I experienced with my Lenco 75's PSU setup and hope to emulate some of that experience and results. I'll probably then allow myself some time to assess the new mods and then report back. I'm hoping to get all this done before Xmas!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Garrard Project Pt IX - Magnetic Dreams

The new PSU is 95% finished and should be here in the next few weeks so I have had time to look at the deck and modify. I have started to employ some of the techniques I developed when modding the Lenco 75. I decided to see how many components were magnetic. The first victim turned out to be the mounting bolts so these have come out and will be replaced by Nylon alternatives. I have decided to replace the washer with birch ply alternatives. I shall keep the mounting washer and for the time being I shall have to keep the heads on the bolts. The excellent new SPH bearing turns out to be MAGNETIC :doh: not good for the likes of DECCA carts, but what do you expect for the cost. I'm also loving the lack of all the boxes associated with the Pheonix tachometer and PSU, good as it was it meant numerous wires and step down transformers which I wasn't very happy with. Now I have the new PSU enclosed in one box @ 230V meaning things should be less congested and hopefully a better power supply for the 301. I intend to make a sexy silver power lead for the 301 when I get the new PSU. The bearing recieved it's first service and now i can quite literally blow on the platter and it seems to spin forever. The tonearm board needs assessing next, but that's for another update!

2181721818

[A.Grail]

A light and flexible mains cable is essential for the 301 due to it's suspended motor. A stiff or heavy cable will push or pull on the motor (= Noise + wear)

[Wakefield Turntables]

A light and flexible mains cable is essential for the 301 due to it's suspended motor. A stiff or heavy cable will push or pull on the motor (= Noise + wear)

Yep already know of this problem but thanks for pointing it out. I'll be using 1mm solid core silver for the PSU into the 301, this will them be going into the Nigels Speed Controller which shall it's own very special power lead. The power lead going into the 301 will be suspended from the plinth with cable ties, this eliminating tension and also any metal connection that I used to have sitting under the deck.

[Primalsea]

Nice post.

A bit late to this party but one of the tweaks that has stayed on my 401 was a SDS platter mat topped with a rubber mat froma Dual 505. I bought my SDS mat when they cost around £50 but it looks like they are double that now, if I see correctly. The dual 505 mat may seem a bit of an oddity but I found that this contributes no static. When I had a felt mat dust would dive on to the record like kamikaze pilots.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Garrard Project Pt X - Magnetic Dreams Pt 2

I've assessed all the various components on the 301's plinth and removed anything that was remotely magnetic. Unfortunately the chasis, bearing and platter are all slightly magnetic in nature. There is nothing I can do about the magnetic nature of these components apart from a complete replacement milled from non-magnetic materials and this is simply not going to happen. The tonearm mounting bolts and all the other components in the tonearm mount are all thankfully non-magnetic which means no messing around. The plinth feet are also non-magnetic and so is the record weight. So, why all this faffing around with magnetic components? Well it's all to do with hum on playback. My Tannoys are very sensitive at playing back EVERYTHING so the idea is to try and stop any remnants of ground loop hum or any transformer hum going through the speaker. I'm pleased to say the deck now sounds even better and most pieces of vinyl are silent through the groove. Stay tuned next time for some work on the new bearing.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Garrard Project Pt XI - With love from Bulgaria.

The new PSU is coming from Bulgaria and this is in keeping with the build of the 301 in that it's been assembled from pieces of kit from all over the world.

Here are a couple of pictures of the handsome beast.

2194421945

The new PSU is great because not only do I have the same speed stability as the old Pheonix engineering system but I have the added bonus of now only being one box and more importantly it's a UK plug. I can also drop the voltage down and see if this has any impact on quality of the soundstage. Getting the new PSU will also mean that I have to start building my "Ultimate" EAR 834 clone. I'll need the shelf space on my rack to accomodate the new PSU!! I'm even more happy now as I have the ability to assess bearing rumble so any further tweaking can be measured to some extent to assess the effects and to see any negative or positive outcomes on the 301's performance. The SPH bearing is now well and truly broken and there is no way that I'm going back to the old 401 or the Martin Bastin bearing that I had before. The deck isn't even bolted into it's plinth (I've been waiting for the new PSU) and it's sounding wonderful. I have a few more things that I'd like to try out but I'm nearing the end of tweaking for this year. As ever, stay tuned... ;)

[Tim]

Ooo I say, that's sexy :drool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XII - The need for speed.

Well the PSU from Bulgaria fell flat on it's backside. I ended up returning it but perhaps this was Karma. I've happened across a product which claims to give speed accuracy to an even greater accuracy than the Phoenix Engineering products. I will be making enquirers tomorrow to see if this is in production. I've also been looking at my plinth and debated about adding a second arm. I did think about adding my DECCA mk 2 FFSS tonearm but then decided against it because I have a DECCA adapter for the early cartridges such as the MK I/II/III for my SME 3012 tonearms. I think I have just about enough room to the top left of the deck for a 9" tonearm and this would be used purely for experimentation and the enjoyment of tweaking! I think I'd also like to modify the plinth so that the SME 3012 would be decoupled and thus less prone to motor vibration. I think I'd like something very heavy mass and of course it's all dependent upon price. I do have a few other things planned for the 301 but that's for another day!

As ever stay tuned! :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XIII - Eeeking a bit more out....

Spring is here and my urge to tinker has struck again. I've been thinking about how I can improve the 301 and I noticed two products that I thought might be of some interest. The first is one from Audiosilente in Italy and this take the form of some properly produced sintered bush bearings in the correct Garrard production procedure. This idea originated from seeing an Audiograil auction on the ebay, I didn't realise the Audiograil guys supplied all new bushings, I did try and get some but they didn't want to sell me any (I understand Matt)! No hard feelings ;). I duly ordered a set from Italy and they should be delivered soon. The second comes in the form of a new speed controller from the land of Oz. This is a product that can produce an accuracy to several thousands of a single RPM which make my Pheonix look poor in comparison. So, I've been exchanging a few emails and hopefully I'll put my order in and at some point have a unit and an extremely accurate 301.

[A.Grail]

Nothing personal there, we do not supply spares or carry additional bearings. Simone is straight to deal with and often quick to ship. It is worth replacing the felt reservoirs when fitting the motor bushes

[Wakefield Turntables]

Nothing personal there, we do not supply spares or carry additional bearings. Simone is straight to deal with and often quick to ship. It is worth replacing the felt reservoirs when fitting the motor bushes

It was on your recommendation he got me business, many thanks! ;)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XIV

After some time messing around with the Lenco I decided to lavish a little love on the 301. I bought a some Panzerholz cut-offs as an experiment after finding some inspiration from a fellow Lenco Heaven member who is currently undergoing a massive experiment looking at the effects of Tonearm board materials. Panzerholz is known as having a very high dampening factor and is found in some extremely high-end turntables, so why not have some in my system? I initially had my SME 3012 mounted on an Acrylic tonearm board mount and it sounded very very good indeed. I decided to incorperate some of the lessons I learned about vibration suppression whilst tinkering with my Lenco 75 into the 301 project. Dismantling the SME 3012 revealed 4 completely shot grommets so I need to order two sets of these, one set for the 3012 and another set for a 3009 I intend mounting on the plinth as time permits. The 3009 is a little side project that will eventually see the light of day! ;)

The 3012 with new Panzerholz tonearm board, the old acrylic can be seen to the front of the picture and the knackered gromets have been removed whilst replacements arrive.


23425

The Panzerholz started off as a little Sunday afternoon project. Here it is mounted in my vice.

23426

And a little time later its finished. Not the best job but no-one is going to see this as it's going to be mounted to the back of the 301.

23427

The idea with the 3012 is to have a 2 tonearm deck to offer greater flexibility whilst playing vinyl and also to allow me to change my carts around with greater ease. The 3009 will be dedicated to loss mass MM carts, such as the Shure's whilst the 3012 will be used to early DECCA's with an adapter, SPU's, and other MC's such as the Denon 103 collection I have. The 301 now has two phonostages, the Paradise and the EAR 834 clone. Eventually the EAR will be modded so I have a mono switch option and to this end I'll be using my Mono SPU. The 301 is sounding excellent as I write this. I still have the AudioSilente parts to fit in the motor :scratch: but at this moment in time I'm enjoying the fruits of todays labour.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XV - Armless - Quite literally!

I've dreamed about having 2 arms on the 301 for some time now and have decided to get the SME 3009 fettled and in working order. I salvaged the arm from a deck on ebay and it was in very sorry state. It needed a complete re-polish as it was full of rust! So far I've replaced the grommets in the tonearm mount and polished up the RCA's to the tonearm lead. The counter weight needed re-threading and the tonearm came without a domed mounting nut. I managed to find one in Canada of all places. I now have a light weight (REGA) headshell and I have a choice of three Shure carts the M55E, the V15 mk 3 and the SC35C all great little carts for the low mass 3009 tonearm. The SC35C needs a new Stylus, this has been ordered from Korea. The 3009 also needs a re-wire and shall be getting full service and fettle via J7 @ Audio Origami. The Panzerholz tonearm mount in now complete and as you can see mounted onto the 301 plinth. I had to make 4 custom made mounting bolts and I'm currently in the process of drilling out the remaining material to house the 3009 tonearm in the plinth but I was thwarted by my drill running out of power :steam:. So, tonight I decided to switch on the 301 for the usual Sunday evening of Jazz to find an annoying ground loop hum, a little detective work and the SME 3012 has lost the right channel. Another job for tomorrow:(. So, quite literally the 301 is now Armless :lol:.

23458

As ever stay tuned. :cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XVI - Moving on.

The 3009 is finally being boxed up and on it's way to Glasgow. The plinth is still in a state of being finished off and I still need to install the Audiosilente parts. I now have a new Speed controller on it's way from the land of Oz. This new speed controller is accurate to 1000th of a RPM which should improve pitch stability no-end and hopefully produce even more detail out of the deck. I also intend to get a new SPU. So, exciting times ahead for the 301. Watch this space.

[RobbieGong]

:thumbsup:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XVII - Fully armed and err... ready!

The 301 was in a sorry state. The SPH bearing seemed to generate a shed load of noise. The 3012 didn't work, the plinth needed modding and the SME 3009 needed a complete overhaul. So what's been done? Well the 3012 now works and the 3009 has been fully origami'd thanks to J7. The plinth (after a shit load of work) has been modded to take the SME 3009, I made a custom Panzerholz mount. I've re-installed the Pheonix Engineering PSU and tachometer after has some real issues with the Aussie replacement that I ordered. The whole 301 system has been up in limbo as the Croft EPOCH pre-amp is about to be sent for major mods with Mr. Firebottle Both tonearms work but the 3009 and the 3012 need properly setting up, I cant see the point in doing this until I have the Croft back from Alan. I've currently got the 401 bearing installed and will over time make some comparisons against the SPH bearing. I also intend to service the 301 with oil that I purloined from Martin Bastin some time ago. I also fancy trying a 401 motor in the 301 and also intend to rebuild this with Audiosilente products just form some fun.

The 301 now sporting a load of SME arms.

23763


The full 301 system

23764

Old faithful re-instated.

23765

Now, I'm off for a single malt.... :cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XVIII - SPU's

The 301 hasn't really been updated that much since I bought my Silver Meister v2 SPU. I snapped this Royal N SPU when it came up for sale I'd always fancied trying the Replicant stylus and the price seemed fair. It didn't quite sound right when I first installed it and even after fettling the 3012, checking alignment, anti-bias etc. So I dug out my spare bag of loading resistors for my Paradise phonostage and plumped for 300R loading value, I decided to remount the thing on my Orsonic head shell and bought a new set of 5N purity silver cartridge leads. Well what a difference! :eek: Gone was the slight loss in resolution and sound-stage compared to the Silver Meister v2 SPU and hello was a wonderfully detailed and slightly brighter presentation. A step up from the Silver Meister SPU. The loading resistors in the Paradise are not my usual Z-Foils which are within 0.1% tolerances so I ordered some new Z-foils with loading values of 300/400/500R so I should have some fun playing around with these. I've now bought a Garrard 401 partly as a resto project and partlt out of curiosity to see if the 301 sounds any better by mounting a 401 motor :eyebrows:.


261512615226153

Right, that's enough for tonight. As ever, stay tuned. :cool:

[brian2957]

That's a stunning turntable Andy :eek:

[Wakefield Turntables]

That's a stunning turntable Andy :eek:

Thanks very very much!

[Primalsea]

Nice one. I see that you started this thread in 2011, so quite some time in the making. Bet you’re well happy.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Nice one. I see that you started this thread in 2011, so quite some time in the making. Bet you’re well happy.

Yeah I think that's pretty spot on. I like to tinker and try new or different things. I've been lucky so far in that everything I've done has shown positive incremental benefits, some more than others.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XIX - a part rebuild after 8 years of nothing!

The 301 is being tweaked again as it started to develop a slight "knocking" sound. So out can the whole of the idler wheel housing. The idler wheel mount has received two precision bushings with a better tolerance than the old 60 year jobbies that currently resided. I have sent the thing off to Martin Bastin just to make sure that it's as good as can be. Presently, the idler wheel housing has had 3 new isolation grommets fitted and a new set of idler wheel springs as one appeared a little sprained. The Royal N SPU that I use as part of this system has been reworked by Killian Bakker over in Holland and I have a new set of 5N silver cartridge leads for the ORsonic headshell. I've also just started producing a slightly thicker Panzerholz tonearm mount for the SME 3012 so that we can a little improvement with VTA and VTF variables. More to come. Some pictures later,....

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XX - More rebuild pix

Part of the Idler housing frame rebuilt. New isolation grommets, springs, everything has been ultrasonically cleaned and polished. I've retouched the red paint.

https://i.ibb.co/cxHyTL0/WP-20200912-004.jpg

Another picture but the reverse side

https://i.ibb.co/4SyssZ2/WP-20200912-005.jpg

A bit more of a break down.

https://i.ibb.co/f8s5CdT/WP-20200906-019.jpg

Lastly. The new 5N pure silver leads for the Ortofon Royal N SPU when it arrives.

https://i.ibb.co/xq7D5D8/WP-20200912-003.jpg

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXI - She's spinning vinyl again... :cool:

Running a 60 year old TT is never easy but if you set the thing up properly and do regularly service work it should give decades of pleasure and this is exactly
what's happened with me over the last seven years with only the Idler wheel to give me any grief. I suspect the bushing probably lost some tolerance but a quick ebay purchase from AudioSilente in Italy procured two new bushing with supposed better tolerance that the older ones. Whom am I to argue? My Idler wheel went of to Martin Bastin who promptly gave it a once over and checked my work. The idler wheel was reinstalled into the new rebuilt idler wheel housing.

One of the really great things about running a 301 is the lack of after market jack fuckery where everyone has a modification to lift your deck to the next level. OK, bearings and platter do exist but largely they remain unreviewed and we'll never have any idea if these after market baubles lift the sonic level of the 301 because the cost so bleeding much! I have noticed a couple of new idler wheels for the 301 and the 401, one is the widely respected AudioSilente idler wheel and another is a new Russian variant. Audiosilente is widely respected and seems to get the thumbs-up from the upper echelons of Garrard Guru's and restorers. I'm happy to splash the cash as a new idler wheel is always useful. So after a little single malt $120 left my paypal account and it should be hopefully arriving in the next few weeks. I have to say that the original Garrard idler wheel is still king. My Garrard 401 idler wheel is also a little noisy so I may end up experimenting here as well with my new purchases.


The Audiosilente Idler Wheel

28740

The 301 is now silent, no knocking and only a very faint whiff of motor noise can be heard with your ear right up to the platter. I'm very pleased with the outcome. I wasn't so pleased when the 301 developed a ground loop hum. In sheer desperation I sent of my 3012 for a check over at Audio Origami, all ok. Still ground loop hum. I decided to remove the power lead from the 301 and then inspiration struck, I noticed the power lead housing nut touching the motor, could this be the cause of the ground loop hum? It was probably also the cause of vibration going back into the platter. I rewired the motor, repositioned the nut and hey presto a hum free Garrard 301 and SME 3012 tonearm, RESULT!

My SME 3012 has always suffered from only just having enough VTA clearance and I'd been making a new thicker
SME arm mount for quite some time but never really finishing it. Today saw the arrival of a Dremel 4000 and what a monster, 35,000 ROM of spinning madness, and after a couple of hours I have a nice new tonearm mount. It's twice the thickness of the old mount and aesthetically it looks and fits better than the old square thing that I made. I can also now use the tonearm shield arm wire shield that's supposed to suppress EMI/RFI etc, I don't know if this helps but it's now installed. I also repaired the 3012 tonearm grounding wire, I've never really needed to use it before as hum has never been a problem. I've now grounded the tonearm to the 301 chassis, well, it can't hurt, can it?? My SME 3012 has also been modified now to accept a 5 pin din plug cables and by doing it this way with have removed a whole layer of connections and solder from the signal path. I also purchase some new isolation grommets for the SME tonearm mount, my others were completely flat and probably offered no isolation whatsoever. All I need now is one meter of 3mm threaded rod to make some mounting rods and I can finally spin vinyl. All these modifications will hopefully work and bring some benefits. I'm also hoping to get my Shure SC35C project up and running as well, it's only been 2 months!!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXII - More equipment than Quatermass experiment.

In a bid to get the most from all my decks I bought an oscilloscope in a bid to make sure that I was getting the best out of my cartridges with respects to channel separation. Stereo imaging should improve but I need to wait for my latest purchases to be delivered before I can comment any further. I also saw this on the Audiograil website

28758

Its called a wavebreak and acts to stiffen the chassis and as a tuned mass damper. So I decided to have a go at making my own, and so after a bit of time learning about vibration assessment I ordered a vibration meter to help me assess just what's going on with the 301's chassis and if anything can be done to damp the vibrations from the motor getting into the platter and bearing. Time well tell. It's all good fun, so with a little luck I should have a better setup with the cartridge and less vibration, but as always it's about how it sounds that matters.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXIII - A few treat's for the 301.

Well I abandoned the Wavebreak for the time being and decided to concentrate on fine tuning the SPU. I purchased a Fozgometer which turned out to be a hell of a lot easier to use than a Scope. The 301 now has the SPU setup with both cartridge channels centralised. I have also ordered a top of the range Yannis Tome tonearm cable! Things should start to sound pretty bloody good!

Stay tuned.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Does anyone want another update on this?

[brian2957]

Yes please :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

And this is how this 10 year plus development sounds...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGvRlXyMO3o

[A.Grail]

What is going on with the on/off leaver? I notice on one of your other films a periphery ring clamp - What make it that?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi, Matt. Nice to hear from you again. I've been doing a little work "under the hood" of the 301 and forgot to correctly tighten and align the nut holding the on/off linkages together, nothing series. It me be lazy to be honest. The ring clamp is an excellent idea, I got mine from Wayne's Audio over in the states. I'd say that it offers more solidity and coherance when in use, there is a certain "ease" to the soundstage. It adds a little mass to the platter which is supposed to improve bass (or so i'm told), I mainly use it to help correct warps in vinyl. It's a little bit of a faff but worth the effort. It's weird but some recordings seem to sound better than others when I use it, very much trial and error.

[A.Grail]

I've found ring clamps work well with Mono Recordings (I'm sure there are numerous technical reasons for this) I have an old TT weights one with the perspex disc locator. I rarely use it but as you say on dished or edge warped records it is invaluable.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXIV - New idler wheel.11 years on and we are still going strong with messing around with the 301! I managed to find this article over on the Korf Blog http://korfaudio.com/blog94 it got me thinking. My idler on my 301 is silent and works very well, but is the rubber component of the idler in good condition? I'll never really be able to find out. Most restored 301/401's now have Audiosilente idler wheels fitted by the likes of Audiograil and CTC, these must be well regarded if these guys are fitting them. So (without the aid of alcohol), I parted with £97 and ordered one to experiment with on my 301 and 401 TT's. Should be fun! It's now a waiting game from Italy, probably a very slow boat from Europe! Here's a picture of said idler wheel http://www.audiosilente.com/garrard-301-idler-wheel-for-garrard-301.html

As ever stay tuned :cool:

[Barry]

At one time I was thinking of using an Audiosilente idler wheel on one of my Thorens TD124/II turntables.

But before I ordered one, I did a bit of research to see what others thought of them, compared to an original replacement from Shopper. The word came back - the Audiosilente was sonically inferior.

Now, this was the version with the circular cross-section, whereas yours has a 'square' cross-section, so could be an improvement.

Good luck anyway - let us know how you get on.

[Jimbo]

Yes heard mixed reports on Audisilente wheel, probably an individual thing where implementation will be the only sure way of knowing?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Chaps, TBH I did speak to Matt @ Audiograil and he said not to bother if the original idler wheel was silent. The 301 is silent, deathly silent, the 401 is a little noisy around the idler housing so I'll probably experiment with the 401 before the 301, anyway, it's all fun. I may also be experimenting with a new platter if I can borrow one.

[A.Grail]

One of the aspects the idler wheel is it's requirement to dampen the vibration experienced by it's contact with the pulley / motor. The original idlers have a considerably higher rubber content than the solid hub types. The A.S idler can sound very nice and IMHO better than 80% of the originals out there. The rubber is slow ground (Important) and is of the right composition / softness. However, when you pull an original idler apart you see they are quite involved (And for good reason), for example the hardened polished pins, the hub construction etc etc. I genuinely have not seen or personally tried an idler that ticks all of the boxes in terms of the ideal (Including the original) I have encountered some people having issues with the idler housing bushes supplied by A.S and if you've ever tried to fit them it is simple to see why. The sintered bushes (Think brittle honeycomb) when pressed can deform and pinch the idler wheel pins causing noise / tightness etc. Then there is is issue of alignment which between bottom bush and top bush (In the removable plate) can become a real wig stretcher. Of course there are ways round these issues but for people doing this at home without correctly sized pin gauges / presses / tools this may be more of an undertaking.

The idler wheel is one of the most critical parts of any wheel drive system. It's effects on Wow / flutter and rumble are well documented.

An Ideal idler wheel would be constructed in such a way and with such materials for it to be: Exceptionally well damped / with highly polished, perfectly round / hardened pins / in perfect alignment / perfectly molded / Dynamically balanced / Running perfectly true. There are many other factors: weight / wear resistance etc etc. None of these aspects are inexpensive to explore commercially (Molding costs alone can be very costly)

...Maybe one day

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXV - Bamboozled!


I've been paying close attention to vibration getting into the 301. The 301 sits on top of Townshend Seismic Plinth which does a very good job of improving the sound quality of the 301 and now I wouldn't be without it. I have for quite some time had a Quadraspire rack which worked quite well but could easily be improved. So, after finally pulling my finger out of my backside I ordered a few bits and made this :-

https://i.ibb.co/sCyFMnn/IMG-0223.jpg


A new bamboo based rack! It's very simply made. Each shelf is 19mm thick and can now be levelled which is something the old Quadraspire could not do. Damping factor has improved markedly too with Bamboo being 0.20 and MDF 0.017. Things have sharpened up markedly with the soundstage showing more cohesion, MONO pressings appear to be more vivid and well placed in the soundstage. I'm not going to write an indepth analysis of how things sound right now but let's just say that it has been a very worthwhile investment in time and effort. I think the 301 has been pushed a little further sonically.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXVI - Silente Night.


Finally I find time to swap in the new idler wheel on the 301, it had been living in my 401.

https://i.ibb.co/89LV4Qn/IMG-0240.jpg

I stripped the wheel out and installed it into the 301. A simple 5 minute job.

https://i.ibb.co/87tKPN3/IMG-0242.jpg

I also swapped tonearm cables. I have a Yannis Tome 420.5 silver litz tonearm cable installed, it's a design that's not listed on his webpage and is a special order only. I also had all my Croft preamp rewired with the same cable!! The jury is still out. Watch this space for a write up at some point.

Stay tuned..... :cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXVII - Back to stock.

This project is still rolling on! I've tried the Audio Silente (AS) idler wheel and it's ok but it is noisy compared to my old Garrard wheel. The new AS wheel is probably the best of the new wheels which are produced as new parts but it just gel in my 301 system. The AS wheel whilst very quiet was actually quite noisy whilst sitting in the 301, my 301 is silent, probably the quietest idler I've ever owned or heard, I'm blessed. I was hoping to have a silent idler wheel and then appraise my finding with a large selection of music, it just didn't happen. I've owned this deck now for over 10 years and I can very very quickly discern changes in it's performance and something just didn't sound right despite having the new AS wheel in for several weeks and continued usage. The soundstage and detail through my Tannoys was not as expected. I'm not knocking the AS idler wheel, it's fantastic fit and finish, a really nice well put together piece of kit, just sadly not for me. So, the old idler wheel has gone back in and piece/sanity has been restored. The AS wheel has been put back in my 401, it will be interesting to assess old the 401 idler wheel with the AS wheel and see if things can work out second time around.

It's not all bad news. The new bamboo rack is working really well and allows for improvements when using the 301. Firstly the 301 now sits level! Well, to be honest it's always sat level but now the 301 sits level in all planes when checked with a bubble spirit level, yes not the most accurate way of doing things but better than before. The bamboo has had a positive effect on damping the 301 alongside the Seismic platform which it sits on. Overall it has been a very worthwhile project. I've been paying careful attention to try and lessen vibrational load into the 301 through the rack from other equipment. My power amp, especially, makes a lot of vibration, experiments with sorbothane under the transformers and bamboo chopping blocks with given a better degree of damping. My pre-amp has had additional similagt treatment. I presume this helps the 301, the soundstage appears more detailed and more coherent so for the time being I'll leave these in place.

The quest continues....

[brian2957]

I had an Audiosilente replacement wheel on a GL75 Andrew and it came with silicon and rubber replacements. Is that the case with the 301 idler wheel? Just wondering if silicon is quieter than rubber or vice versa.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I have no idea Brian it just came with one option so I presume that's it!

[brian2957]

Ah..the Audiosilente idler wheel for the GL75 must be a totally different beast then.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Ah..the Audiosilente idler wheel for the GL75 must be a totally different beast then.

Yep, just a tiny weeny bit! :lol:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXVIII - FrankenSPU.


More messing about with the Garrard 301/SME 3012 and SPU's. I'm a lucky bloke in that I own quite a few very nice carts and over the years I have developed a very specific taste with respects to what I like. One of the things I love more than anything in Audiofoolery is Silver. One of the things I don't like in Audiofoolery is plated wire. So, here I'am with a quandry, I have a very nice Royal N II SPU, with a lovely Replicant profile styles, and then things are spoiled because the coils are gold plated silver. https://storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/superangry.png:D" class="smile"> I've messed around with gold and silver plated copper before and have discovered that I didn't really like either. I'm evaluating the pro's and con's of the best bits of the Royal N & the Silver Mesiter II SPU's and seeing if I can come up with something that takes the best of both and then produces something extra special. Here is a spec's list of both carts.



ROYAL N SPU

Output voltage at 1000 Hz, 5cm/sec. - 0.2 mV
Channel balance at 1 kHz < 1 dB
Channel separation at 1 kHz > 25 dB
Channel separation at 15 kHz > 20 dB
Frequency response - 20-20.000 Hz + 1,5/- 0 dB
Tracking ability at 315Hz at recommended tracking force *) - 60 µm
Compliance, dynamic, lateral - 8 µm/mN
Stylus type - Nude Ortofon Replicant 100
Stylus tip radius - r/R 5/100 µm
Tracking force range - 2.5-3.5 g (25-35 mN)
Tracking force, recommended - 3.0 g (30 mN)
Tracking angle - 20° *) Typical value
Internal impedance, DC resistance - 7 ohm
Recommended load impedance > 100 ohm
Coilwire material - Goldplated silver
Cartridge colour - Shiny black
Cartridge weight - 13 g


SILVER MEISTER II SPU

Output voltage at 1000 Hz 5cm/sec - 0.3 mV
Channel balance at 1 kHz < 1 dB
Channel separation at 1 kHz > 20 dB
Channel separation at 15 kHz > 10 dB
Frequency response 20 - 20,000 Hz +2/-1 dB
Tracking ability at 315 Hz at recommended tracking force *) > 70 μm
Compliance, dynamic, lateral - 8 μm/mN
Stylus type - Nude Elliptical
Stylus tip radius - r/R 8/18 μm
Tracking force range - 3.0-5.0 g (30-50 mN)
Tracking force recommended - 4.00 g (40 mN)
Tracking angle - 20º*) Typical value
Internal impedance, DC resistance - 3 ohm
Recommended load impedance > 10 ohm
Coilwire material - Silver, 6-nines
Cartridge body material - Ground wood and resin composite
Cartridge colour - Shiny black
Cartridge Weight - 28 gram



Not much to choose bewteen the two, the Royal N does not have the damped wood resin cartridge body of the Silver Meister II, but then I do have the Royal N mounted in a Orsonic AV101b head shell which is known as one the best, hopefully this will mitigate some of the damping properties of the Silver Meister II body. The biggest difference is stylus profile. Setting up the Royal N was a breeze. My setup includes using Dr. Feickhart's protracter for alignment and then a test record (Ultimate Analog Test LP) + Fozgo meter for channel balance adjustment. The test record is spun at exactly 33.33 which is controlled by my Pheonix Engineering PSU+tachometer, so a very (hopefully) accurate way to ensure that things are setup correctly. I wanted to go a little further into setting the tonearm/cartridge up and I decided to check compliance and effective mass, I use korfaudio.com/calculator (http://redirect.viglink.com?key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cc e3053c5&subId=6936725&u=https%3A//korfaudio.com/calculator)

and very good it is too. I found that both the Silver Meister II and the Royal were excellent matches for my SME 3012, the Royal N giving slightly better results for acceleration at the head shell, the stylus excusrion status were pretty much identical with a small hump at about 5hz.



I already have a very very good idea of how a Silver Meister II sounds on my system, so now it's a case of listening and seeing how I like the Royal N with the Replicant stylus profile. So far I have a very wide, fast, vivid soundstage, plenty of seperation between the instruments, excellent detail. Ultimately if things pan out I may end up doing an experiment with a Silver Meister II SPU with boron cantilever and replicant profile. We shall see, stay tuned.....

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXIX - Further Royal N SPU evaluation & new tonearm.

My much loved SME 3012 is recieving some much needed repair work and a possible rewire. In the meantime I have installed my SME V-12 and a Royal N II SPU combination. It sounds very very good and shall remain in the mix for the time being, I'n enjoying the additional data retrieval from the Replicant stylus on the Royal N SPU but the gold plated silver coils are taking a while for me to get used to them. I love my Silver Meister II SPU and still think that this is the way forward, the more I listen to the Royal N the more I think the Silver Meister II should have had a FGS or Replicant stylus profile. Now I'm in the process of designing a new plinth which will hopefully incorperate better damping properties alongside improved tonearm and motor decoupling. We shall see.

https://i.ibb.co/YdSSYMW/IMG-0421.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/yB3rdty/IMG-0423.jpg

As ever stay tuned... :cool:

[Jimbo]

Fabulous beast there Andy. Hardcore stuff!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Cheers Jim, I've a few ideas I want to try with the 301 setup. I'd like to replace the bamboo shelves with permali and then even replace some of the stainless steel washers with permali variants. The idea is the damp and listen vibrations getting into the 301. Should be good fun, and that alongside a new plinth design should keep me happy for a while.

[Jimbo]

Cheers Jim, I've a few ideas I want to try with the 301 setup. I'd like to replace the bamboo shelves with permali and then even replace some of the stainless steel washers with permali variants. The idea is the damp and listen vibrations getting into the 301. Should be good fun, and that alongside a new plinth design should keep me happy for a while.

I think vibration control is always worth pursing with turntables and anything is worth trying. I have had very good results with the set up I have and cannot determine anything getting back to the stylus via the turntable even when I submit it to the torture test of massive very loud pounding bass via a suspended wooden floor. I have gone down the MASS route as I believe the more you can employ either to the turntable and its surrounding environment the better.

I am not a big fan of equipment racks as they are always hollow structures by their nature and provide plenty of opportunity for vibration to screw with the structure and therefore the platform on which you sit the turntable. However I am sure with different materials vibration can be mitigated. Its all about experimentation and listening.

[Wakefield Turntables]

This Morning's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXX - Jim inspired, cosmic rant, sort of......

It's Saturday morning, I'm sipping coffee before the morning dog walk and thinking about Jim's comment, see below.


I think vibration control is always worth pursing with turntables and anything is worth trying. I have had very good results with the set up I have and cannot determine anything getting back to the stylus via the turntable even when I submit it to the torture test of massive very loud pounding bass via a suspended wooden floor. I have gone down the MASS route as I believe the more you can employ either to the turntable and its surrounding environment the better.

I am not a big fan of equipment racks as they are always hollow structures by their nature and provide plenty of opportunity for vibration to screw with the structure and therefore the platform on which you sit the turntable. However I am sure with different materials vibration can be mitigated. Its all about experimentation and listening.

These comments got me thinking a little bit. MASS is all very well and good but everything vibrates no matter how much mass an object has. The biggest single thing I can think of is the known universe! It's a collection of particles (of varying sizes) which are all connected by various known/unknown forces which enable resonance to be transmitted and therefore vibration. We can safely say the universe vibrates and is prone is vibration, just like a turntable. I honestly don't think that a large solid sideboard (like yours Jim), or a skeletal rack (like mine) or indeed any other design is perfect in vibration control/mitigation. A solid cabinet just acts as a massive reflection point for anything coming out of your speakers and that's why your sound traps probably work quite well beacuse they are placed near your cabinet. My sound traps are placed just after my equipment tracks and probably work in a similar nature, so touche! It's probably the sound traps which stop our racks/cabinets acting like massive reflective surfaces. :scratch:

Jim, I think you hit the nail on the head with mitigation, and usage of different materials. My 301 sits on a Townshend seismic platform which is a CLD design sitting on four springs that are tuned to mitigate certain vibrational frequencies getting into the TT. I think this is a good place to start. I switched from compressed wood (quadraspire) to Bamboo racks. I did this for two reasons. Firstly the improved damping quality of Bamboo and secondly the racks are made from opposing compressed layers of bamboo which I hope makes it more difficult for the transmission of vibration travelling up into the rack. I'll be taking these ideas further. My main thoughts are to concentrate on the pieces of equipment which generate the most vibration on the rack, these being the amp, pre-amp, and the turntables itself. This is where things getting interesting beacause I have several variations which could be tested, I could use Permali on it's own or try a CLD like design with Permali, an intermediate material and then Bamboo. I could even design a CLD like washer on the equipment racks to try and damp vibration passing between the nuts and main struts as they connect the individual platforms on the rack. It's all fun stuff and gets me thinking about just how far we can push old technology!

Stay tuned..... :cool:

[Jimbo]

I think using different materials certainly helps as I use quite a variety.

Just a quick account of my set up FWIW

Very heavy solid wood retro side cabinet filled with 200 records used as a base. This piece of furniture has huge mass and makes a great base for the turntable.
I then use some felt squares with Vibropods sitting on these. On top of this I have a compact laminate shelf which weighs similar to granite! The turntable sits on cones with ball bearings. The cones are also separated from the TT with some very dense foam/rubber washers. The TT motor sits on small discs of sorbathane.

Experimenting with feedback into the stylus now results in very little vibration if any at all. It is certainly not audible. Importantly the Preamp is sitting on a roller shelf and is damped internally now with sheets of silent coat. So the whole result means I can walk the system up without and noticeable vibration feedback.

Of course there must be some and I could always do more. Air shelf??:lol:

But just to go back to your idea of using a selection of different materials I think is key as they all mitigate vibration at different frequencies.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'm interested on how you experimented the effects of feedback through the stylus :scratch:. Can you explain how you did it, or give me a call if you don't fancy doing a load of typing. :eek:

[Jimbo]

I'm interested on how you experimented the effects of feedback through the stylus :scratch:. Can you explain how you did it, or give me a call if you don't fancy doing a load of typing. :eek:

Ahh, yes I was explaining that the other day to Brian. I will give you a call sometime over the weekend and let you know. Its VERY unconventional.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Can’t wait.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXXI - 18 Adult Rated!!!

The 301/3012 combo have a combined age of over 110 and have given me pleasure (and quite a bit of frustration) over the last 10 years. The 3012 is knocking on a bit and has from time to time lost a channel, I think I may have finally found the culprit. It looks like it could be the 4-pin cartridge connection at the end of the tonearm. The connector has 4 spring loaded pins which are pressed down when a cartridge is screwed and locked into place. It looks like one of my springs has failed on the pin with the pin being in a permanently depressed position and hence no connection. So, I'm on the hunt for a new one. It's a quick call to SME tomorrow to see if they might have one, if not then it's a case of hunting one down second hand or buying the expensive version from AudioSilente :eek:. I've also noticed the the Yoke on the 3012 has a slightly bent anti-bias column so I've managed to source of the older longer versions and finally I've bought some new coupling rubbers as the counterweight appears to sag a little. Hopefully these little tweaks will keep the 3012 going for many years to come.


As ever stay tuned..... :cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's Update - The Garrard Project Pt XXXII - Nearing the end.... :scratch:

I've finally managed to get my finger out of my backside and got on the phone to SME, £104 spent and I now have a proper SME 3012 cartridge bayonet to fit into the end of the 3012 tonearm and hopefully cure the intermittent loss of the right channel once and for all. The 3012 should be performing really well as it's had several new components including a new Yoke and coupling rubbers for the counter weight and now a new bayonet connector. The Silver Meister II SPU has also been retipped with a FGS profile diamond so things should sound pretty bloody good. Too bad I'm going to Spain for a week. Most likely all my spare parts will be delivered and waiting when I get back. :eyebrows:

Now the 301 may recieve another 2nd arm and a new plinth, I'm undecided. I do have a very very special valve MM phonostage on delivery should the deal go through and it's something which I've always wanted to have in the 301 system and that's a phonostage just for MI/MM carts, and also be used for MONO duties. The Rek-o-Kut equalizer III will also get some usage for older 78 and MONO recordings as I get them. More on the new MM phonostage later, with some pictures. For the time being my 401 is being pressed into action and I'm enjoying that with some other kit.

Stay tuned.... :cool:

[Jimbo]

Excited to hear and see the valve phono stage.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Excited to hear and see the valve phono stage.

It needs to arrive and then be in working order! I'll not know for another week.

[Barry]

Glad to hear SME were able to help with the bayonet connector, though £104 seems a lot to charge. :eek: But that's SME for you.

[Wakefield Turntables]

What's the alternative? You can always buy one from ebay and then run the gauntlet of it not working and then you could always look for a scrap 3009 or 3012 and then pay silly money for that and possibly not working as well. £104 is very steep but it's hopefully piece of mind. That's the problem with running vintage kit.

[brian2957]

Enjoy your holiday mate :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Enjoy your holiday mate :)

Thanks! :cool:

[Barry]

What's the alternative? You can always buy one from ebay and then run the gauntlet of it not working and then you could always look for a scrap 3009 or 3012 and then pay silly money for that and possibly not working as well. £104 is very steep but it's hopefully piece of mind. That's the problem with running vintage kit.

Agreed, you are a bit over a barrel there
Anyway good luck with the rewiring - will you be doing it yourself, or have someone like Johnnie at Audio Origami do it for you?
Have a good holiday. :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

J7 is doing all the rewriting

[Wakefield Turntables]

The 301 is being upgraded again! Stay tuned folks.....

[Wakefield Turntables]

PART XXXIII - I TOLD YOU SO... :eek:

Good evening ladies! Well the usual culprits are sitting around the listening room, a bottle of single malt, some music, and some hifi gear, the thing that's missing is JAZZ! I'm not playing JAZZ because my main transcription device is sitting in pieces on my listening room floor. The 301 is undergoing BIG surgery! I'm making a new plinth. So here is my old plinth.



https://i.ibb.co/GCYx6v0/IMG-0773.jpg



And here are some pictures showing the plinth development.



Heres a picture of the top part of the new plinth, take a look at the homebrew Dr. Feickhert's equipment (5 minutes in my shed and cost pennies)!


https://i.ibb.co/MPM932g/IMG-0779.jpg



A bit of DIY in the workshop.


https://i.ibb.co/5rDDMGY/IMG-0780.jpg



An afternoon later and we have something which looks like a nearly finished plinth.


https://i.ibb.co/s3psZTJ/IMG-0782.jpg



So the idea is for mass, this thing will weigh >25kg. I'll be adding a decoupled motor and a CLD layer. I'll be fitting two SME classic tonearms, mainly a 3009 and a 3012 both sporting SPU's. One arm will do MONO / vintage MM duties (the 3009), whilst the 3012 will be specifically classical and Jazz. I'll have the pick of two phonostages and then this should see me through winter until I get the upgrade itch again. PANZERHOLZ or Permali......


Stay tuned.... https://storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png

[Jimbo]

That should do the trick Andy. 25KG is plenty of mass. Looks like my first turntable but I used mine without a plinth! Just suspended it on a wall bracket. Not sure if that was a great thing to do but it sounded OK.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The old plinth looks like a toy compared to the new one.

[A.Grail]

Bamboo is an interesting material... The thing about gunning for mass as a goal is - mass stores energy, sure it shifts the frequency but the dissipation is slow. This can translate to a smearing of dynamics. Managing resonance is dependent on three factors: Stiffness, damping and mass. Striking the right balance is the key for the 'resonance recipe' in terms of getting something tasty sound wise. Bamboo has a reasonable stiffness, good intrinsic damping and has a decent amount of mass (Better than birch ply.) Interested to see how you get on here, we went through a lot of iterations.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Bamboo is an interesting material... The thing about gunning for mass as a goal is - mass stores energy, sure it shifts the frequency but the dissipation is slow. This can translate to a smearing of dynamics. Managing resonance is dependent on three factors: Stiffness, damping and mass. Striking the right balance is the key for the 'resonance recipe' in terms of getting something tasty sound wise. Bamboo has a reasonable stiffness, good intrinsic damping and has a decent amount of mass (Better than birch ply.) Interested to see how you get on here, we went through a lot of iterations.

Thanks Matt. I'm taking things easy with the plinth, just doing a little every night. Hopefully it will be finished enough for me to do some basic evaluations soon.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard Restoration Project Pt XXXIV - It's here.....


After many years of planning and then just sitting on my backside I decided to build a new plinth for the 301. The old plinth was a crappy bitch ply from Eastern Europe, purchased when funds were low and I knew next to nothing about these decks. Move forward a decade and we have more knowledge. more pennies and a workshop that can make such things as plinths. Spurred on by (well I'm not quite sure what), I decided to get some Bamboo and make my own designed plinth, never made one before and I decided to completely ignore any well thought out designs because I think I know better (:rofl:). I did have some ideas that I wanted to implement and these were to have a more massey plinth, something with better damping qualities than ply, something which was cheaper than Panzerholz, and I wanted a two tonearm setup, mainly my SME 3009 and 3012, decoupled motor and a CLD layer.

And here we go

https://i.ibb.co/sW2GHhq/IMG-0810.jpg


Not the last word in woodworking skills, Robert Thompson has nothing to worry about :lol:. So, I few design details. The tonearm mounts arm made from Panzerholz and have been directly coupled to the Bamboo plinth. I have removed the SME rubber grommets in the tonearm mounts. I'm hoping to get maximal damping this way rather than isolation ( I have a plan for this). The SME 3009 is a MONO/vintage MM (when the mood takes) tonerarm, this will be using a Croft MM phonostage using the RCA 5691 valve and Belden cabling as I quite like the tone this produced. Currently the 3009 has not been tested, my time has been utilised setting up the 3012 today. The 3012 has a very special modified Silver Meister II SPU. This SPU was beginning to show signs of wearing out so I decided to get a FGS stylus profile added and I created my dream SPU. This dream consisted of silver coil windings and the FGS stylus profile, coupled to SPU design and we have a very sexy performer :flasher:. Mass has increased from around 12-14kg from the old setup to around 28Kg for the new one. Damping has been improved with Bamboo and Panzerholz. I will be including a CLD layer in the form of a Townshend seismic platform. I'm waiting for the correct pods to arrive and be installed, presently, the 301 weighs too much (fat git) for the current pods! I have decided to re-use the old pods under the Croft Epoch pre-amp that I run. I hope to do something similar to how old Royal Navy Valve gear used to be mouted, SPRINGS, provides great isolation for valves from vibration. If it's good enough for the Royal Navy it's good enough for my Croft Epoch.

https://i.ibb.co/n3NKwW3/IMG-0809.jpg

Here the's Townshend jobbie waiting for new pods...

https://i.ibb.co/g376WFc/IMG-0811.jpg

The Townshend Seismic platform provides the CLD layer that I wanted. The only thing missing is the decoupled motor. I'll be leaving that for the time being as I want to fully learn the new systems sound and then we can start to evaluate where we can improve things. :eyebrows: I will at some point write up what I can hear through the big Tannoys...

As ever people. Stay tuned... :cool:

[Barry]

Looking good Andrew,

But why do the two tonearm mounts have a different thickness?

Cheers
Barry

[Jimbo]

Like the heavy mass and vibration controls yo are putting in place. Vibration is always something unwanted unless its at the tip of a stylus! I have found benefits always reducing vibration and using mass to remove it around the TT.

Good work Andy and will be interested in your listening results.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Looking good Andrew,

But why do the two tonearm mounts have a different thickness?

Cheers
Barry

it’s what I had kicking around the garage. Panzerholz is very very expensive to buy as a whole sheet

[Barry]

it’s what I had kicking around the garage. Panzerholz is very very expensive to buy as a whole sheet

Fair enough. :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Like the heavy mass and vibration controls yo are putting in place. Vibration is always something unwanted unless its at the tip of a stylus! I have found benefits always reducing vibration and using mass to remove it around the TT.

Good work Andy and will be interested in your listening results.

thanks! Too much damping can and is a bad thing. I’ve learned that lesson before with my 1210. I thinking I’m in a sweet spot now. Panzerholz/ permali would probably be better and garner better results. Maybe this is my next project.

[Jimbo]

Wouldn't mind trying a Panzerholz TT shelf sometime but the cost!:eek:

[struth]

Wouldn't mind trying a Panzerholz TT shelf sometime but the cost!:eek:

yup, very expensive stuff. used to be close to a grand a sheet. so heavy it costs a lot to transport too. then the working of it too. its a bit overkill for me, but i know some like it

[Jimbo]

yup, very expensive stuff. used to be close to a grand a sheet. so heavy it costs a lot to transport too. then the working of it too. its a bit overkill for me, but i know some like it

Your probably right Grant, it would be an expensive mistake to make if I tried it for a TT shelf and it didn't work out?:scratch:

[struth]

Your probably right Grant, it would be an expensive mistake to make if I tried it for a TT shelf and it didn't work out?:scratch:

always feel its over damping. its just birch and resin really hence the difficulty in cutting

[Jimbo]

I use some compact laminate stuff in various parts of my system (under speakers, TT shelf etc) which is a fair bit cheaper and probably manufactured in a similar fashion.

[struth]

I use some compact laminate stuff in various parts of my system (under speakers, TT shelf etc) which is a fair bit cheaper and probably manufactured in a similar fashion.

its engineered wood, not a wood. lots of resin in it makes it heavy and deadening; may be too dead for my liking and can kill the sound a bit.

[Wakefield Turntables]

That's why Bamboo is a good compromise, it's cheap, plentiful, offers better mass and damping compared to birchply and is very easy to work. Panzerholz or Permali (something else to try) will be a stretch too far I've you've damped too far with bamboo and hate the results. Hence my educated experiment with Bamboo, method in my madness. :wowzer:

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard Restoration Project Pt XXXV - Two steps backwards and one step forwards (or that's how it seems)!

Things are going well. The new plinth is in place and it's safe to say that it's a big step up from the old birch ply that I'd been using for a decade. I have had some problems with setting up the SME 3009. I'm having great problems getting this thing to properly work, mainly because it's not designed to work with such a heavy cart as the Oroton MONO SPU. I've had to have a special counter weight made (thanks Steve) just so we can balance the SPU. I've just about managed to get 3g of tracking weight on the SPU which is the least recommended. Things sound very good with MONO recordings. I've had to add an additional record mat to help with VTA but it's a small price to pay. Adding an additional record mat is hardly that time consuming. I've also had to make some new mounting bolts for the tonearm base, this is the second pair. I suppose I'm going to have some teething problems before I get the design nailed. Overall I would say that I'm about 90% where I need to be.I also need to source some new isolation podiums for the Townshend sesimic plinth but that's another story.

As ever peeps, stay tuned... :cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard Restoration Project Pt XXXVI - Sweet Music, at last! :piano:

Hello people, I've decided to add some much needed content to this forum. The 301 project is now in it's second decade :eek: how the hell did that happen. Any major upgrade to a well established TT is bound to have many twists and turns and I'm thankful for this joyride. If anything else it has taught me which tweaks work well in my system. I have taken a month getting to know the new sound of the upgraded 301. I'm not going to go into massive details and list every nuance for every track that I've listened to, I think it's a pointless excercise. I can say without of a shadow of a doubt that the 301 has spades more detail, more conhesion to the soundstage, better seperation and an improved engaging feel to the presentation. The bamboo plinth has proven to be a very worthwhile experiment and I shall not be going back to birch ply.

I was most disgruntled with Townshend Audio, customer service needs to be improved and packages dispensed when stated. I should not have to listen to a churlish helper on the end of the phone basically saying that I'll recieve my package when they choose to dispense and no earlier. This is despite immediate payment from my end. :steam: Anyway this probably did me a big favour as I waited for the new uprated feet for the Seismic platform (or whatever gumph they call them). For all that I complain about Townshend I have to say that their products (in my system) work very well indeed. Twenty minutes of faffing and levelling has resulted in a very find sounding 301, it is painfully obvious that the 301's new improved performance partly comes from the new uprated Seismic platform which can now handle 48Kg of loaded mass.

My SME 3009 has proven to be a test of patience. I first had to order a new increased mass counter balance to be made by Steve at Magna Audio. Fit and finish are excellent as ever from Steve and the Ortofon MONO SPU balances perfectly on my SME S2 3009. I've had big problems with trying to get the cartridge to lower sufficiently onto the vinyl for any meaningful output through the speakers :lol:. Using several platter mats has resulted in the 3009 working ok but it's not ideal and I will have to decrease the height of the newly made Panzerholz tonearm mount for the 3009, probably by about 2-3 and this should then work well. I have been listening to the Croft MusicMaker phonostrage and everything wired up, so for the first time in months everything is wired up and working. The 3009 still needs a few tweaks by hey-ho I'm 95%+ finished. So just a couple of pictures showing you everything wired up.


https://i.ibb.co/HnzzCw9/IMG-0850.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/Dz67RqP/IMG-0847.jpg

As ever guys, stay tuned... :cool:

[Jimbo]

Looking good Andy, perseverance is the thing and you seem to have plenty of it.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've learned to do one small thing at a time and see how things sound. This method also means you can see where you go wrong. You can easily feel that you've achieved something when you have a few small "wins" rather than trying to do everything at once. The 3009 is rather trying but hey-ho it's only a tonearm and vinyl. :)

[Jimbo]

I've learned to do one small thing at a time and see how things sound. This method also means you can see where you go wrong. You can easily feel that you've achieved something when you have a few small "wins" rather than trying to do everything at once. The 3009 is rather trying but hey-ho it's only a tonearm and vinyl. :)

That's definitely the way to go mate. I only do small changes at a time and more importantly always keep a route open to return back to where I started. Some folk do radical stuff and throw out (sell) everything and then its a very painful experience to return if they have made a mistake.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Some folk do radical stuff and throw out (sell) everything and then its a very painful experience to return if they have made a mistake.

Yep, I've never subscribed to that philosphy but good luck to those that have and found a winner. :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard Restoration Project Pt XXXVII - An evil plan has been devised.............!



Hello again. I've not got much to report tonight. The nights are gettingt colder and I've turned on my Valve central heating (forget gas central heating), well the valve system seems to keep my listening room mighty warm! Tonight I've been contemplating moving forward with the various systems that I have sitting around me. I've decided to spend more on vinyl than buying new pieces of kit. Don't get me wrong I'll still be buying new kit, just less of it. I do have a slight confession to make. I have spent a massive amount on a new stylus for a cartridge that I was given to play around with, the Shure M44-7 (£19.99). As some of you may know I have a bit of a fetish for these carts and I still think that the M55-E is one of the best MM's I've ever heard. I've decided that I need a little toy over Xmas so I'm going to be messing around with the M44-7 with a SME 3009 S2 which should be a great match. I have a couple of decent MM phonostages to mess around with. It should be fun. I'm probably going to have a very good look around the JICO website over Xmas as they seem to be promoting a new M44-7 which they have built. They seems to have many many version of this cart with many stylii profiles. Who know's I may buy one at some point in the future alongside a whole collection of stylii profiles. The Ortofon 2M black is my favourite MM with the M55E a very close second. I think I have a plan for 2024 and also the 3009 should get some usage instead of looking like a nice appendage on my 301! https://storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png



The Xmas break should be fun listening to loads of old vinyl through the Ortofon SPU MONO and messing around with the M44-7 and new (cheap) stylus!



It would be interesting to hear what you lot intend doing over Xmas with your vinyl rigs, any comments and discussion most welcome.



As ever


Stay tuned.... https://storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png

[Jimbo]

I am very much looking forward to your experiences with the M44-7 - it is not for the feint hearted.:) If I had a little more control over my phono stage loadings I may have used it in my system. I just about get away with the M55e and to be honest if JICO decide to do an SAS stylus again for this I will be in there like a shot. It was a close runner to the 2M Black and a great combination only loosing out to the 2M in ultimate dynamic control and incisiveness.

Unfortunately my TT will be locked away in a cupboard at Christmas as we have a 2 year old on the loose!:eek:

[Wakefield Turntables]

2 year old's are little monkey's and should be cherished!

[Jimbo]

I will be taking my VPI turntable to bits over the Christmas Period and cleaning and oiling main bearing.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I might do the 301 and just do a bit of lubing!

[Jimbo]

I might do the 301 and just do a bit of lubing!

I have some experimental lube for the turntable.:eek:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tell me more! :popcorn:

[Jimbo]

Tell me more! :popcorn:

Think Bike...:eyebrows:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Think Bike...:eyebrows:

Sounds like a government safety advert from the 70's!

[Jimbo]

Sounds like a government safety advert from the 70's!

:lol:

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard Restoration Project Pt XXXVIII - Two arms better than one...


Welcome back my friends to the restoration that never ends (can anyone guess the prog album?). I'm sitting in the listening room with a big smile on my face. I now have two fully working SME tonearm sitting on the 301. It's just a matter of flicking a switch to listen bewteen mono and stereo, the MONO is a valve MM Croft phonostage whilst Stereo is a customised four box Paradise phonostage. MONO is sounding amazing through my Ortofon MONO SPU, ok the Ortofon may not be the last word in MONO reproduction but it's still pretty decent, ok not a Miyajima ZERO but still pretty damm good. I will of course be messing around with setup and trying to get the best from the cart and that's some of the fun over the long Xmas holiday.

Here's a picture of the 301 playing a 10" that I bought for very little money.

https://i.ibb.co/Bjs7LMQ/IMG-0884.jpg

MONO is an excellent way to listen to vinyl. There are literally thousands of recordings which can be purchased for pennies which sound excellent through the right speaker. I've been listening today through a single Tannoy MG 15" but my preferred speaker which I'll setup over Xmas is my single Quad ESL 57 speaker, this speaker fetches a realism to classical and vocals that the Tannoy can't quite deliver. Setting up the 3009 has been a pain and still continues to provide problems. I had to modify the Panzerholz tonearm mount by sanding 3mm off the height which was actually quite easy with the correct sanding belt! The 3009 still plays it's games in that I'm thwarting playing around with old Shure MM carts. I have two that I would like to try my old Shure M55e and a newly donated Shure M44-7. I have stylii for both (very cheap after market) but have been stumped again with VTA problems. It's all my own fault by not fully researching the limitations of the 3009 S2 Improved which is what I own. Several people said you can't use a 32g cartridge on these tonearms, well we proved them wrong and I have one working and singing like a canary. This has been achieved by having some custom ant-skating and balance weights made. I will need another for some of the custom bodies that I like to have installed on my Shure carts, but then that's the fun of the hobby. I'm sure some audio snobs will be crying on their UHQR 45RPM pressings, screaming I should get a non-improved 3009, I agree but I don't want the expense.

Here's a picture of future experiments with the 3009 and 301 combo.

https://i.ibb.co/BskHrPP/IMG-0885.jpg

Custom anti-skate and tonearm balance weights, several vintage MM's and several different stylii, it might be 2024 before we start messing with these but I have time! The ultimate conclusion to this experient is to have a vintage reference MM which I can play with through either my Croft or EAR 834 clone MM phonostage. I'll be doing experiments with loading plugs etc etc. It'll all be documented at some point in the future. Suffice to say that I'm extremely happy to get the MONO side of things setup. I'll be going through my entire record collection (2500 lps) and setting up a dedicated MONO section. Well that's a rap folks.

As ever stay tuned.. :cool:

[Jimbo]

Mono I feel is an underrated way of listening to music. I have heard some recordings in mono and they have been compulsive listening especially the tonal quality and body they give sometimes to instruments and performers. They sometimes sound almost more substantial and full blooded than stereo recording which can sound a bit lightweight.

Good to see you pressing on with the project mate and look forward to your impressions of the 44-7 sometime in the New Year.


I am listening to quite a dramatic improvement in my system tonight Andy, just because I bought a Christmas tree!:)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Good to see you pressing on with the project mate and look forward to your impressions of the 44-7 sometime in the New Year.


Jim, I promise I'm going to do an indepth M44-M55e bake off at some point, it's long over due! I intend messing around with lots of variables, silly things like pitting vintage Mullard ECC83's against RCA 5691's, trying Duelund speaker cable against SAEC, differing anti-bias weights, loading capacitance plugs, and even special wooden cartridge bodies. It should all be fun!

[Jimbo]

Jim, I promise I'm going to do an indepth M44-M55e bake off at some point, it's long over due! I intend messing around with lots of variables, silly things like pitting vintage Mullard ECC83's against RCA 5691's, trying Duelund speaker cable against SAEC, differing anti-bias weights, loading capacitance plugs, and even special wooden cartridge bodies. It should all be fun!

Brilliant, I know you always do a very thorough job, I would expect nothing less:lol:

Talking of speaker cable what are you using at the moment BTW?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'm using Duelund https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/duelund.html in the Garrard 401 system. I use a pair of Yannis Tome IC's in the technics 1210 system and some SAEC in the 301 system.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard Restoration Project Pt XXXIX - Unflexible friend.

Possibly a stupid drunken purchase or maybe an upgrade, I have no idea. Spurred on by a little single malt I've purchased a stiffening plate for the chassis of the 301. It's from the USA, it's from someone I've never heard from before and I have no idea if it will work or not. I'm in for just over £100. What's the worst that can happen, I'm down a few quid :confused:, easy come, easy go!. As ever my friends stay tuned...... :cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard Restoration Project Pt XXXX - Unflexible friend pt II

Now into the second decade of this adventure and we are still messing about to see just how far we can push this old beast. I have seen several several versions / attempts at reinforcing the chassis of a 301. The first was by Tim de Paravicini and then a later posh thingy demonstrated by Audio Grail (Wave break????), please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway I spotted something on eBay a while back and as usual my wallet was lighter to the tune of £110 after a little single malt and jazz on one of my JAWS might (Jazz And WhiSkey) nights. It's arrived in the UK and here are a couple of pictures.


https://i.ibb.co/T47bWFq/topplate.jpg https://i.ibb.co/pb3Lr7y/topplate2.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/pb3Lr7y/topplate2.jpg

I've still to fit the thing on my own 301. These pictures give you some idea of what the thing looks like. The 301 has always been a project of experimentation and I quite like the idea of adding a third tonearm to the new Bamboo plinth, I'm uncertain as to what I would like to try. I fancy a Bokrand tonearm based around the Ortofon AS212 (12") or possibly the JurJi tonearm which has become popular over on LH. I also fancy bracing the bearing which is another popular tweak for Lenco bearings. Decisions, decisions.....

As ever. Stay tuned.... :cool:

[Jimbo]

Nice bit of machined metal there and certainly looks promising. Is there one available for the Lenco?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Not that I’m aware, Jim.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard Restoration Project Pt XXXXI - Unflexible friend pt III

OK LETS GET THIS OUT IN THE OPEN BEFORE YOU READ THIS - I HAVE NO LINK WITH THE SELLER OF THIS PRODUCT.

Hello people! Here we are again we another small update on the Garrard 301 Restoration project. Tonight a few words on a drunken purchase several sundays ago from the U.S of A. I purchased a chassis stiffener for the grand total of £107 delivered. I've waited several years for this oppotunity. The fit and finish was very good but the instructions for fitting were nil, bugger all, nowt, nada, nuthink! It's a good job that yours truly know's his way around a 301 pretty well. After removing part of the motor cradle, several of the linkages and the cable spring we had a nicely fitted chasis stiffener plate fitted. So, my first gripe is I had to dismantle half the bloody 301 to get this thing fitted, BUT, I'm so glad that I did! I noticed an immediate improvement, or at least I thought I did :scratch:. One of the benefits of owning my 301 for over 10 years is that I know it very initimately and I know how it performs. I can usually hear a difference in any tweaking within 15-30 minutes of any modification. I'm not going to beat around the bush, the soundstage changed. Everything had a little more solidity, definition, cohesion, and seperation. It was subtle but enough for me to judge this upgrade as a worthwhile punt into the unknown.

End of the road.......:confused:

I'd always wanted to try something like this but oppotunities are scarce. You don't see the Tim De Paravinci "H" bar up for sale and he can't make you one know. Classic Turntable Company offer a new chassis which is substantial in mass compared to the 301 but that's at a cost, then you have more esoteric things like the "Wave Break" highlighted by Audio Grail with very little info on the product. It's quite sad really as I'm now nearing the end of modding the 301. I suppose a new Panzerholz plinth could be the way forward and then we always have after market bearings and we also have other PSU's such as the the Long Dog PSU. New SPU's could also be an avenue of exploration. I would also surmise that there might some mileage in room treatment. So, maybe not the end of the road yet but I think I'll be slowing down with updates on the 301, but only because the oppotunities are very few and far bewteen, this latest upgrade being a case in point. Anyway, let's not get all sad, I'm looking forward to another ten years of updates for this deck, and here's a pick of the 301 with new mod fitted.

https://i.ibb.co/fNQ15dz/IMG-E1039.jpg

As ever, stay tuned.... :cool:

[Jimbo]

Looks like it should have been on the TT from its inception?:) Wish I had kept my 301.:(

[Wakefield Turntables]

Looks like it should have been on the TT from its inception?:) Wish I had kept my 301.:(

Maybe Jim. Garrard did try and improve the chassis with the 401 but that's a different beast. :) I own both 301 and the 401, I still prefer the 301.

[Jimbo]

Maybe Jim. Garrard did try and improve the chassis with the 401 but that's a different beast. :) I own both 301 and the 401, I still prefer the 301.

Beautiful bit of engineering.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Beautiful bit of engineering.

I have to agree. I've tried 3 or 4 bearings, and a couple of different Idler wheels and my 301 is still stock apart from the chassis mod.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard 301 Restoration Project PT XXXXII - Playing with my Balls (Well ball bearings)!

It's Sunday and time for another update for the 301. There has been a lack of information regarding the chassis stiffener from the US of A mainly beacuse I wanted to see if the improvements in soundstage were still apparent and not just initial installation bias. I'm happy to report that my feelings towards the soundstage are still the same. Just a smidge more cohesion, great clarity and definition of the small details, maybe a tiny bit more depth in the soundstage but overall a positive improvement.

So, this got me thinking.I've been rooting around in my spares box again and discovered an old set of turntable footers that I'd used years ago on a previous project. These footers are solid aluminium, very nicely turned that sit on a single ball bearing. mounted footer. I'm thinking on trying these on my newly made Bamboo plinth instead of the Bamboo feet that I made. I'd also get an additional level of flexibility with these new (old) footers in that I can change the height of each foot so levelling up the Garrard would be that much more easy. I'm hoping that I may introduce a greater level of Isolation for the Garrard from its external environment and maybe improve things a little further. This with the ability to produce a more accurately level 301 is tweakers heaven!

I can only try and it's a very nice easy thing to reverse. The second thing I've been looking into is the periphery ring that I use. Here's a link for those interested https://www.waynesaudio.com/product-page/universal-turntable-outer-ring-ss-2 Yes it's expensive but it's a very well made piece of kit and great for sorting out those warped 60 year old DECCA SXL's :D! Heres a video that I made years ago for Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z04nC7c56g which demonstrates it's usage, this is back when I had the birch ply plinth :). The periphery ring also adds additional mass and inertia to the platter as well as helping to flatten out warping in the records alongside producing a more congruent platter/vinyl interface. The platter ring gets used alongside a 1KG solid copper weight, again helping to to produce mass/inertia and further helping to reduce vinyl warp and vinyl/platter interface (this can also be seen in the videolink).

So, the first thing I'm assessing is the periphery ring/copper weight combo and then I'll start with the new plinth feet. The journey continues into it's second decade. As ever stay tuned... :cool:

[ianlenco]

Good to see you haven't wasted your money Andrew, well done for gambling on that plate. Your 301 is looking very nice indeed.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Good to see you haven't wasted your money Andrew, well done for gambling on that plate. Your 301 is looking very nice indeed.

Thanks Ian, I'll maybe do a PTP, it's one of the things that I've been promising myself as a treat but still not got around to doing!

[brian2957]

That periphery ring looks like a serious piece of kit Andrew. Not cheap, but the best isn't is it?

[Wakefield Turntables]

That periphery ring looks like a serious piece of kit Andrew. Not cheap, but the best isn't is it?

Brian, I paid nowhere near the price they are asking now. ;)

[brian2957]

Brian, I paid nowhere near the price they are asking now. ;)

Bit of a bargain then :)

[Qwin]

Nice bit of machined metal there and certainly looks promising. Is there one available for the Lenco?

The mechanism on the GL75 is on top of the top plate, so not as straight forward on a Lenco Jim.
Take a look at Lenco heaven, see if anyone has come up with something.
That's where I got the inspiration for my GL75 project seen here: https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Lenco_Thumbs.html

[Jimbo]

The mechanism on the GL75 is on top of the top plate, so not as straight forward on a Lenco Jim.
Take a look at Lenco heaven, see if anyone has come up with something.
That's where I got the inspiration for my GL75 project seen here: https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Lenco_Thumbs.html

Cheers Ken, I will take a look over there.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard 301 Restoration Project PT XXXXIII - Reflections, thoughts and a bit of waffle.

I'll probably do another update tomorrow, so it's a double bill over the weekend! I'm happy with the way the new feet are performing. The 301 certainly sounds no worse than it did whem I was using the bamboo feet. I would say that things "appear" to sound marginally better, I'm certainly not going to bother taking these feet away from the 301, I can't be bothered :). Overall, I'm very very lucky I have an amazing soundstage that greets me anytime that I chose to use the 301. My 301 seems to specialise in immersive detail and a uncanny ability to accurately place people in a very defined area of the soundstage. The 301 is by no means the last word in vinyl replay, my 1210 would easily trounce this 301 for forsenic detail but the 1210 can't match the 301 for emotional connection, so I suppose it's horses for courses.

The 301 has always had modifications and the platter is no exception. I use a Tenuto platter mat which is made from Gun Metal. Gun Metal is approx 88%ish copper, copper works as a very good shield for some of the nasties that can get into the replay chain. I wonder if some of the sonic presentation I hear is due to this or maybe has no effect what's so ever, I suppose I'll never know :(. I also use a platter ring which adds additional mass to the outer circumference of the platter, it's also great for getting vinyl very flat and producing an improved vinyl/platter mat interface. I wonder if the platter ring works a little like the oversized platters that seem to be popular (Shindo, Audio Grail, CTC etc). I've never tried an oversized platter, cost isn't really an issue but I wonder just how much of an improvement they bring and does my current setup give me the same effects, or maybe even better? Again I suppose I'll never know unless I get to borrow one from somewhere (HINT HINT)!! :lol:

So, I've scratched one itch, and that was the chasis reinforcement board that I bought from the USA last month. Many versions of this had been proposed and designed and it seems that the people who designed these products really did have an inkling that the 301 sounded better with a stiffend chassis. The oversized platter is again an idea that's been kicking around for years and again it seems to add an improvement to the 301, I'm also emulating this with a platter ring (maybe not as effectively as a real platter but I'm happy). So, another itch sort of scratched. Lowered voltage to the motor and a super clean regulated power supply was something I did years ago alongside rock solid speed control. My plinth has been improved by upgrading to bamboo. Again two modifications which have been documented for years and yes they do work. I've dabbled with isolating the 301 with springs and ball bearings, and yes this also seems to work. I must admit that I'm running out of ideas with what to do next. Any suggestions??

OK, enough for tonight, stay tuned.... :cool:

[Jimbo]

The Garrard 301 Restoration Project PT XXXXIII - Reflections, thoughts and a bit of waffle.

I'll probably do another update tomorrow, so it's a double bill over the weekend! I'm happy with the way the new feet are performing. The 301 certainly sounds no worse than it did whem I was using the bamboo feet. I would say that things "appear" to sound marginally better, I'm certainly not going to bother taking these feet away from the 301, I can't be bothered :). Overall, I'm very very lucky I have an amazing soundstage that greets me anytime that I chose to use the 301. My 301 seems to specialise in immersive detail and a uncanny ability to accurately place people in a very defined area of the soundstage. The 301 is by no means the last word in vinyl replay, my 1210 would easily trounce this 301 for forsenic detail but the 1210 can't match the 301 for emotional connection, so I suppose it's horses for courses.

The 301 has always had modifications and the platter is no exception. I use a Tenuto platter mat which is made from Gun Metal. Gun Metal is approx 88%ish copper, copper works as a very good shield for some of the nasties that can get into the replay chain. I wonder if some of the sonic presentation I hear is due to this or maybe has no effect what's so ever, I suppose I'll never know :(. I also use a platter ring which adds additional mass to the outer circumference of the platter, it's also great for getting vinyl very flat and producing an improved vinyl/platter mat interface. I wonder if the platter ring works a little like the oversized platters that seem to be popular (Shindo, Audio Grail, CTC etc). I've never tried an oversized platter, cost isn't really an issue but I wonder just how much of an improvement they bring and does my current setup give me the same effects, or maybe even better? Again I suppose I'll never know unless I get to borrow one from somewhere (HINT HINT)!! :lol:

So, I've scratched one itch, and that was the chasis reinforcement board that I bought from the USA last month. Many versions of this had been proposed and designed and it seems that the people who designed these products really did have an inkling that the 301 sounded better with a stiffend chassis. The oversized platter is again an idea that's been kicking around for years and again it seems to add an improvement to the 301, I'm also emulating this with a platter ring (maybe not as effectively as a real platter but I'm happy). So, another itch sort of scratched. Lowered voltage to the motor and a super clean regulated power supply was something I did years ago alongside rock solid speed control. My plinth has been improved by upgrading to bamboo. Again two modifications which have been documented for years and yes they do work. I've dabbled with isolating the 301 with springs and ball bearings, and yes this also seems to work. I must admit that I'm running out of ideas with what to do next. Any suggestions??

OK, enough for tonight, stay tuned.... :cool:

I would be interested in some pics of the 301 motor section so I can compare it with the one I had. With all your modifications etc I would like to see. how it sits now. Mine used to be sprung I think?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I would be interested in some pics of the 301 motor section so I can compare it with the one I had. With all your modifications etc I would like to see. how it sits now. Mine used to be sprung I think?

Mines still stock. I did replace the rubbers on the motor suspension springs a number of years ago. My 401 sits in a Martin Bastin plinth which decouples the motor.

[Jimbo]

Mines still stock. I did replace the rubbers on the motor suspension springs a number of years ago. My 401 sits in a Martin Bastin plinth which decouples the motor.

Ah - forgot yours was in the Martin Bastin plinth.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Ah - forgot yours was in the Martin Bastin plinth.

The 401 sits in the Bastin plinth. My 301 sites in my own plinth design for which I have not decoupled the motor.

[SLS]

Deleted

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard 301 Restoration Project PT XXXXIV - More Tom Tweakery!


It's been a little while since I posted anything about the 301. I'm actually listening to some Monk on my 401/SME V-12/Shure M55E/EAR 834 clone setup for a change. The 301 is having some more work done on it so may as well give the 401 a spin. The latest mods have been based around trying to reduce vibration further into the 301 by using some feet I purchased from ebay years ago. These feet are nicely milled aluminium adjustable jobbies which sit on some ball bearings. Here's a quick pickie of the 301 having cleaning and fettling, this is a ritual that I always perform if I'm modding the 301, it keeps all the intrinsic clean.

https://i.ibb.co/sCP2vrw/IMG-1093.jpg

It's not a thing of beauty but it gets the job done. And now just a quick picture of how the new feet look after installation, I've still not properly levelled everything at this stage so the feet may look a little wonky. :drinking:.

https://i.ibb.co/4NR9MRd/IMG-1098.jpg


The jury is still out. Sometimes I think they are beneficial and other times I'm not so sure. I still have the bamboo feet I made kicking around so nothing lost and nothing gained if they don't work out. I must admit to being very pleasently surprised by the performance of the 401. It makes a nice change to sometimes listen to different decks and carts.

As always stay tuned. :cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Erm......... update pending!

[Jimbo]

Looking forward to it:popcorn::popcorn:

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard 301 Restoration Project PT XXXXV - Infrastructure spending (less than the National Grid)!

Hello boys and girls! I was too tired last night to post any musings so here I'am today having a guinnes, remembering an old friend and listening on my 401 (:lol: yes this is a thread about a Garrard 301) to some excellent old MONO DECCA pressings I picked up today for £12. I can't say that I enjoyed the very slow rendition of The Ride of the Valkyries on Ace of Clubs ACL 22, but hey the rest of the album sounded great, anyway I digress. I've been looking at ways to slow the spending habit on boxes and pieces of hardware and as promised have been spening more money on vinyl, I did however, fail! I've recently snagged a ex-demo Townshend Seismic Stand directly from Townshend with a choice of loading pods! I decided that I wanted a set of 4 "D" level pods which means I can easily have 40-80Kg of kit sitting on the stand. Now, I have two pieces of kit which are not protected, firstly my power amp and secondly my 4-box paradise phonostage. So, I guess I'll try the stand under both pieces of kit and see if this helps. I should easily get my money back should this experiment fail. So, whilst this is not strictly a paragraph about the Garrard 301, it does potentially have an impact of stuff travelling into the rack and then into the Garrard. Anyway, here's a picture of the equipment where the new Seismic stand will be used.

https://i.ibb.co/XyrJS3m/IMG-1331.jpg

Now, the main bit of gossip regarding the 301 is the possibility of me making a bearing collar for the 301 bearing, something which other Idlers have had for years, take a look at these two pictures of a bearing collar for the Lenco GL75.

https://i.ibb.co/ZXPGN8r/image16.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/mD5XX5K/image17.jpg

It's not very difficult to make a bearing collar and the idea is to stiffen up the mounting of the bearing to the chassis of your specific idler. Now, you may remember my gamble with the Chassis stiffening plate that I purchased from the US of A, here's a picture of the said object installed in my 301.

https://i.ibb.co/fNQ15dz/IMG-E1039.jpg

It was a bit of a bugger to install but very much worth the effort and made a nice sonic lift to the 301. Well, my interest has been piqued. I only wish the guys that made the chassis stiffening plate also made something for the bearing, this is, however, not the case. So, it just so happens I have a spare Garrard 301 bearing floating around, so I can start messing around with prototypes in plywood and then probably make something in Bamboo to exploit it's damping properties, ultimately I would love some permali. I've already made some custom mounting bolts! In an ideal world I would also like to make something like what Ken has done to has Lenco GL75 bearing to clamp the base of the bearing to the base of the plinth but the 301 bearing is an awkard shape and not circular so a SHF flange mount may not work very well. ANY IDEAS KEN? Of course all this could be complete folly and not really do anything for the 301 and then there is the question of why I'm not making the bearing collar from stainless steel. Well, I don't have any! Bamboo is easy to work and cheap, and enables quick prototyping, I can always go stainless steel for giggles at a later date! Any here is a quick picture of the 301 with the said spare bearing

https://i.ibb.co/fGjgfQp/IMG-1326.jpg

So, that's it for now, stay tuned.

[Jimbo]

Great post Andy and the bearing collar makes a lot of sense. But would it be a good idea to incorporate a bearing collar into a top plate chassis stiffener? Can this be done then you would spread the strength and stabilising effect over a wider area.?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Great post Andy and the bearing collar makes a lot of sense. But would it be a good idea to incorporate a bearing collar into a top plate chassis stiffener? Can this be done then you would spread the strength and stabilising effect over a wider area.?

I totally agree with you Jim, you'd think an all in one solution would be best but it never happened, hence the two seperate bits. It's only a bit of fun and again it's a slow burn side-project, maybe something to do on a lazy sunday when it's cold and raining! The 301 is spinning again.

[Chas B]

I'm interested to read that you have de-coupled the motor on the 401 but not bothered to do this on your 301. Is this because you don't think there are benefits to this modification?
I did a modification on my (heavily modified) Lenco which could be applied to our Garrards. I added a brace to the bottom of the main bearing which has a similar effect to stiffening the top plate. I have yet to try it on a Garrard but it was a positive addition to the Lenco.

[Jimbo]

I'm interested to read that you have de-coupled the motor on the 401 but not bothered to do this on your 301. Is this because you don't think there are benefits to this modification?
I did a modification on my (heavily modified) Lenco which could be applied to our Garrards. I added a brace to the bottom of the main bearing which has a similar effect to stiffening the top plate. I have yet to try it on a Garrard but it was a positive addition to the Lenco.

Where did you get the brace for the bearing on the Lenco?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I will post more on this subject tonight. In fact it will form tonight’s update!

[Qwin]

I'm interested to read that you have de-coupled the motor on the 401 but not bothered to do this on your 301. Is this because you don't think there are benefits to this modification?
I did a modification on my (heavily modified) Lenco which could be applied to our Garrards. I added a brace to the bottom of the main bearing which has a similar effect to stiffening the top plate. I have yet to try it on a Garrard but it was a positive addition to the Lenco.

Yes, a bearing steady is a good idea.
I used the Long SPH bearing on my Lenco GL75 Project.
Also the PTP-6 top plate was used (4mm Stainless Steel).
But I still made a bottom steady clamp/plate, to stop the very long bearing leaning in use (5.5kg platter assembly).
I think this clamp also helps damp the spindles thrust bearing.
Very happy with its performance.

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_02K2.jpg

[Chas B]

Where did you get the brace for the bearing on the Lenco?

See Qwins later post but mine was a simple DIY effort.

[Qwin]

Yeh, mine was a bit of DIY too.
I took a stock engineering, 30mm ID "C" Clamp, which was quite tall. I cut it down to almost half its height and tapped the plain mounting holes with an M10 thread.
The plate is 3mm Stainless, I cut and shaped with hacksaw and file.
The screw fixings to locate the plate, go into metal threaded inserts, imbedded in the rear of the lower layer of my laminated plinth.
The plinth is made of three 40mm thick layers. In total, I put 11 threaded inserts into the base section and 24 into the top section, before it was glued up. The inserts fit from the rear, so are totally encapsulated in the lamination. A lot of precise drilling and they all had to be counter bored so the inserts didn't protrude and keep the bamboo sections from pulling up together when glued/clamped. I did a full trial build, to a motorised working deck, without arm, to make sure everything fitted and worked as it should. Only then did I glue the plinth layers together.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Garrard 301 Restoration Project PT XXXXVI - Getting a stiffy!


Well maybe not! But tonights little ramble is all about how it's not quite so easy to make a bearing collar and clamp. Well, that's not actually true, it is easy, quite easy, but like most audio geeks I've been having fun we another turntable, mainly the 301's younger brother the 401 (check out the thread) and not really given the 301 bearing much thought or attention over the weekend. I've noticed some well needed conversation on the thread, I always love it when that happens, about my bearing ideas. The ideas are nothing new and have been around on the Lenco scene for decades. Making a bearing clamp is very easy for a lenco bearing due to the fact that it's cyclindrical in nature and a "C" clamp will easily fit around the shaft of the bearing. Now, welcome to Garrard world where nothing is ever easy and you need a bit of lateral thinking :lol:. Check this picture out.

https://i.ibb.co/njp08xm/IMG-1346.jpg

Here we can see a stock standard 301 bearing on the left and the lovely SPH garrard bearing bearing from a few years ago. Please note the two ridges going down the shaft of the 301 original bearing, ain't no "C" clamp going around that shaft (oo-er). So, the lovely design from Ken won't work. The "C" clamp idea might work with some modification to the "C" clamp itself but I haven't got that far yet. I need to physically order one and give it a try. The same problem also arises when thinking about making a collar for the 301 standard bearing. The collar is going to be the easiest thing to make and I'll make a prototype at some point when I can get my hand on some 5mm bamboo sheets. I may even then produce something in steel, but that's in the future and I'd like to see if the bamboo does anything to damp the bearing from motor vibrations.

Now Chas.B asked why I haven't decoupled the motor? OK, Chas, short answer is that I'm getting to grips with the sonics of the Bamboo plinth. Well that's a little lie. The plinth is still being modded as time goes by. My next "mods" will be the bearing collar and then the bearing clamp which will form an integral part of the plinth. I'm not sure if I'll have any space under the plinth to design something which will decouple the motor as well. In an ideal world I'd have a Martin Bastin plinth made from Bamboo, it would also need to be able to take two tonearms, and also have space for a bearing clamp. Hey, Chas, we are now in the second decade of messing around with this deck, as you can see it's a slow boat to China with this deck. ;)

https://i.ibb.co/Bjxwwvb/IMG-1357.jpg

Finally, the 301 benefits from some messing around with the infrastructure that it lives on. Here is a wee picture of the Sondex amp now sitting on its very own Townshend Audio Seismic platform. The platform can handle loads upto 80Kg. It's hard to say if the 301 benefits but TBH I'm not fussed the seismic plinths always benefit TT's and worst case scenario is that I sell it and get my money back. I'll have to sit down and listen to more vinyl to see if things have improved. :doh:



More musings at some point in the future, stay tuned.

[Jimbo]

Just watched a great video on future of vinyl playback Andy and vibration elimination is a priority as it has been found to deliver even more information from those grooves than has ever been thought.

check this discussion out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTGzoYlgxjM&t=86s

[Wakefield Turntables]

Just watched a great video on future of vinyl playback Andy and vibration elimination is a priority as it has been found to deliver even more information from those grooves than has ever been thought.

check this discussion out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTGzoYlgxjM&t=86s

Thanks Jim. I'll check this out when I have a bit of time.