£300 headphone budget

[wee tee cee]

I have ordered a musical fidelity m1 mpa head phone amp. I'm looking for some advice regards cans to go with it.
I recently bought some superlux 668b cans and latterly married them up with a fiio e10.
The cans have been a revelation...the amp a disappointment.
The hpa doesn't seem to have many reviews but the few I have read, indicates its pretty good and either slightly bright or warm depending on who reviews it.
I have been trawling reviews and threads amongst ourselves......my short-list would be -
sennheiser hd650
grado 325i
beyerdynamics 990/600 ohm
audio technica ath 50s.
I'm looking to get something that's a keeper with the possibility of adding more cans from different stable in the future.
Real world advice greatly appreciated.
Tony.

[Ant]

Sorry, slightly off topic but I had an amusing experience regarding headphones in HMV today...

Looking for Christmas gift cd's and that I spotted an advert -- "was £349.99 - now £279.99 saving £70", the offer was for some cans labelled "Beats by Dr Dre" I picked them up and thought WTF, who in their right mind would buy these bloody things....

A Second later "I have them, they're mega, the best thing I've eva bought" came from a store hand, bemused I replied "you can get something far better far cheaper, Sennheiser HD650's for example", her reply was, "yea but Sennheisers are crap".

So based on that, and back on topic - If I were you, I'd go for the Beats ;)

Ant

[twelvebears]

If you're after a 'keeper' then I'd be inclined to say go for the HD650 or HD600 (either are good, with a slightly different presentation).

Unless you are hell-bent on blowing £300, you might want to keep a beady eye on eBay.de as you get more s/h HD580/600/650s than you you do here (Sennheiser being German and all that) and usually at sensible prices.

Recently bagged a clean pair of HD580s, changed to HD600 grills and new earpads and have a virtual HD600 clone for about £110 and am very pleased with them.

Different 'flavour' to my AKG K-701s but still very nice. :)

[wee tee cee]

Sorry, slightly off topic but I had an amusing experience regarding headphones in HMV today...

Looking for Christmas gift cd's and that I spotted an advert -- "was £349.99 - now £279.99 saving £70", the offer was for some cans labelled "Beats by Dr Dre" I picked them up and thought WTF, who in their right mind would buy these bloody things....

A Second later "I have them, they're mega, the best thing I've eva bought" came from a store hand, bemused I replied "you can get something far better far cheaper, Sennheiser HD650's for example", her reply was, "yea but Sennheisers are crap".

So based on that, and back on topic - If I were you, I'd go for the Beats ;)

yup,
Had a pretty similar experience....HMV glasgow ,some great cans you can listen to with...albeit with the noisyist environment imaginable. Serious money cans couldn't hear them worth a fuck...hugely disappointing.
At least I felt them comfort wise.
Tony.

[JJack]

I think the Dr. Dre headphones are about $150 US.
They are the Bose of headphones.

FWIW, I've had AKG 501s for over a decade and love them.

[morris_minor]

+1 for the HD650. I've also got some HD595s, now 598 I think. Very good for the money :)

[Werner Berghofer]

Here’s a vote for the Beyerdynamic DT 990/600 Ω. The Beyerdynamic DT 880 sounds more neutral and flat, but the pronounced treble and bass of the DT 990 makes listening probably more enjoyable. This of course depends on your preferred music and your personal taste.

Generally Beyerdynamic headphones have sparkling treble, great dynamics and fine separation, while Sennheisers sound more warm and laid back. All Beyerdynamic models I know are very comfortable to wear.

Werner.

[Werner Berghofer]

Anthony,


WTF, who in their right mind would buy these bloody things....

highly recommended: Innerfidelity: Monster Beats by Dr. Dre Solo (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/monster-beats-dr-dre-solo).

Make sure to *not* miss the video at the end of the review!

Werner.

[technobear]

my short-list would be -
sennheiser hd650
grado 325i
beyerdynamics 990/600 ohm
audio technica ath 50s.


Boy, are you confused! :lol:

The sound of the hpa would depend heavily on what headphone the reviewer was using. It could be slightly bright (Grado) or slightly warm (Sennheiser) or both at the same time (Beyerdynamic).

The Beyerdynamics are very comfortable and sound great. Neutral monitors they are not but then nothing really is at this price level. They are enjoyable to listen to though.

The Sennheisers are also comfortable and sound great but in a different way. The HD650 is somewhat warmer and bassier then the HD600, the latter being a tad more open and airy.

The Grados I don't find comfortable at all. I don't much like the overly bright sound either but a lot of people love them.

Thing is you've listed chalk, cheese and cabbage here. You really need to get to hear some of these phones before you decide what to buy.

All three will outclass the M50's but the latter offer great value for money and are my 'travelling' can (the T1's being too precious to ever take out of the house :eek:). They lack a little top end air and the bass, while plentiful and deep, is not the most articulate - but good for the price and great for rock music that often needs a little bass boost.

Of the more expensive trio, my money would be on the Beyerdynamic DT990-600.

Oh and you might add the Denon D2000 to your list.

[wee tee cee]

Thanks folks,
I'm like a child in a sweet shop.......I dunno what to get.
I've just stopped smoking , so the £300 is my saved fag money.......Ye, I'm hell bent on spending every cent on treating myself to some fancy cans.
Tony.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


I'm hell bent on spending every cent on treating myself to some fancy cans.

be prepared: Sooner or later you’ll feel the urgent need for a good headphone amplifier – sorry for your wallet ;-)

And congratulations for your decision to quit smoking.

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Werner,
I'm hoping the musical fidelity m1 hpa thats en route to me for the end of the week will tick all the boxes amp wise. Thanks for the encouragement regards the smoking.....mind you I'm chocking for one this morning......THINK HEADPHONES.......THINK HEADPHONES.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


I'm chocking for one this morning......THINK HEADPHONES.......THINK HEADPHONES.

being a passionate smoker myself, I can assure that the moment you hear your favourite music via a real good headphone the desire for a cigarette immediately vanishes. I can’t stand smoking or having a cup of coffee or tea while listening to music when wearing headphones. All I long for is to close my eyes and deeply dive into the music that surrounds me. Hope this method also works for you, Tony!

The Musical Fidelity M1HPA seems to be an excellent choice. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it for a long time.

Werner.

[bobbasrah]

Think curly cables will be a no-no if you've given up the weed Tony, you'll have it all in knots.
Looks to get some ecstatic reviews that machine you ordered. Why not wait a bit until you've totally messed up the 668B cable in frustration, or is all this advance planning I wonder?
But good luck with the smoking, says he rolling another from the pack of Drum... I keep putting it off knowing it will not be easy come the time....

I can heartily recommend the 990Pro Beyers for the price, but many, such as Werner, swear to the better quality of the 600ohm versions. His take on the differences to Sennheisers chimes with my own experience. There is a lot of choice at that price level, and you will get good to even better deals after christmas in all probability. Have you considered getting two different sets? You have sufficient a budget allocated to consider it.
Check the european v UK prices when ordering, as it can sometimes make one hell of a difference....

[wee tee cee]

I'm always going to be a smoker....just i am not smoking. I love it with a passion but its a lifestyle choice...£200 plus a month on something thats knocking fuck out me ......standing at the back-door in the pishing rain/snow/freezing...WTF.

The budget would let me run to a pair of Werners babies and maybe the audio technica jobbies......the guys at loud and clear in glasgow have offered me a loan of a burnt in pair of grado 325i when the head amp arrives. At least it will give me something to compare the superluxes to. The sennhiesers dont seem to get a lot of bad press and would maybe offer a datum point for me.

I read somewhere the 668b has been voiced like Werners cans, If thats the case then if they work with the head amp they are the front runner for the fag money.
Tony.

[jostber]

I use the Audio-Technica ATH-ES7 which sounds quite good to my ears with the Furutech Cruise headphone amp. Believe you can get those for about £130.

[Pete The Cat]

I've used HD600s for a while and for all their neutrality and detail I've become fidgety with how polite and laid back they are on rock. As a quick and dirty comparison I recently got some Beyer DT990 Pros. While their bass is a little fat, overall they shade it by making the Sennheisers sound slightly dull by comparison.

I won't stick with them forever but mention them because they're similar to the Premium version except (just from what I can work out) they have a cheaper quality of finish and tighter headband due to being made for studio use, and come in 250 ohm version, yet retail for just £130-ish.

In 2012 I'll be hoping to do some proper trialling of AKG K701, Denon AHD2000 and Grado 325.

Pete

[Werner Berghofer]

Pete,


In 2012 I'll be hoping to do some proper trialling of AKG K701 […]

then I have to warn you to first try out on your own head how comfortable you feel with the leather headband and the infamous bumps in it. For a lot of people (including me) this type of headband is a source for constant anger and pain. However, the earcups are big, soft and very comfortable.

Also, if you like the sound of the Beyerdynamic DT 990 you probably won’t be happy with any of the AKG x70x headphones. In comparison to the Beyers they sound thin, anemic, weak and even plastic-like. Enjoyable bass on these headphones simply isn’t existing, no matter which amplifier is used to drive them.

Last week I purchased a Beyerdynamic T1 (600 Ω). This is by far the best headphone I’ve ever heard yet, but it’s in a completely different price range.

Werner.

[bobbasrah]

Pete,

Last week I purchased a Beyerdynamic T1 (600 Ω). This is by far the best headphone I’ve ever heard yet, but it’s in a completely different price range.

Werner.

:stalks: Completely? Jeez that is understatement taken to extremes....that is seriously expensive kit....:cool:

[wee tee cee]

Werner.
Id be interested to hear you impressions of what they do in comparison to the 990/600.....Is it a giant leap or incremental Improvement. Your set up with dac/amp/cans is now top notch, be great if you could do a mini review...
Seems to me sonically, a good cans set up would be very difficult and expensive to equal with a hi fi.....you get far more bang for your buck-so to speak.
Tony.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


Is it a giant leap or incremental Improvement.

hm, that’s difficult: I would say it’s an incremental improvement, but a very significant one :-) The DT 990/600 Ω already offers great detail resolution and juicy, sparkling sound with a fat, enjoyable bass (at least when powered by an OTL valve amp). I wear eyeglasses, so please allow me this metaphor: The T1 offers you a bright and clear view on familar landscapes (the Beyer house sound), but it feels as if the glasses have been cleaned, polished, and extra high resolution details and color saturation have been added – without any exaggeration, it just sounds absolutely convincing, effortless and naturally flowing.

And at the latest in this moment you realize: you’re in serious trouble, because there’s simply no way back for you to ever enjoy headphones of lesser quality again :-) I guess every male remembers very well that special, private moment in this life when experiencing for the first time the difference between women and girls. To stay on this topic and use female icons of the 1960s: the DT 990 might be Twiggy with just a little bit too much make-up in the face, while the T1 would be Sophia Loren in full bloom.


Your set up with dac/amp/cans is now top notch

Yes, the headphones cost a little bit more than average, but the headphone amplifier and the DAC (£ 223.– each box, VAT not included) in my opinion are inexpensive, although they don’t sound and of course don’t look and feel cheap – quite the reverse! I’m sure much better headphone amplifiers and DACs are existing, but for the moment I’m perfectly happy with the Schiit boxes. The finish of the T1 appears valuable, high-grade and sturdy, the cable is thick; some persons may feel that the weight of the cable is too heavy. Although both share the same industrial design principles, the T1 certainly looks better and more precious than the DT 990, but it is more expensive.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/beyerdynamic_t1.jpg


be great if you could do a mini review...

Gosh, even in my native language this would be very difficult for me, not to mention attempting doing this in English! There are a lot of great Beyerdynamic T1 reviews to be found on the web, written by competent native speakers.


Seems to me sonically, a good cans set up would be very difficult and expensive to equal with a hi fi.....you get far more bang for your buck-so to speak.

That's true, and with headphones one can enjoy music at real high volume late at night without causing troubles for partners, cats or neighbours. But the spatial experience when listening to speakers from the “sweet spot” still isn’t available with headphones. The “in-head location” with the T1 isn’t that strong or even claustrophobic as with other headphones, because unlike most other headphones (well-known exception: Sennheiser HD 800) the drivers are placed a little in front and more sideways of the auditory canals. And another quality still is missing with headphones: the physical sense of perceiving and feeling deep bass notes with the skin and the body.

Werner.

[technobear]

On the subject of the T1, I would add:

If you can't afford it, DO NOT listen to it ;)

It does make lesser cans sound broken.

The sound is so natural , unforced and free-floating and the structure of the phones so solid, silent and still that I often forget I'm wearing them. They are a shear delight and I feel very lucky to own a pair.

[wee tee cee]

werner.
Thanks for taking the time to explain. I have a horrible feeling your English is better than my glaswiegan. If the jump is so great I might wait and get really serious cans....every time I listen will remind me.......cigarettes or audio.....
Tony

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


If the jump is so great I might wait and get really serious cans

my suggestion: Don’t wait, get the Beyerdynamic DT 990 (or any other headphone you might like) now, enjoy your music now – everything which lets you forget to think about cigarettes is welcome. Better spend the price difference for CDs or LPs.

After six or twelve months, if you’re still interested in really expensive headphones and still crazy enough to spend that much money, see if you can try out the Beyerdynamic T1, the Sennheiser HD 800 or any other flagship model available and get them. Remember how much money you’ve saved in the meantime by not smoking for six or twelve months, and remember how many hours you will have spent listening to your favourite music instead of waiting and saving money for a more expensive headphone – and longing for cigarettes ;-)

In the £ 300.– price range really excellent, premium quality headphones can be found, and you should be able to sell them easily.

With my purchase of the Beyerdynamic T1 I rewared myself for a lot of stress and ten weeks of hard work (seven days a week, at least twelve hours daily) on three book projects simultaneously. I’m not sure if getting these headphones was reasonable or wise; my DT 990/600 Ω are only seven months old. If I would not have heard and read about the T1 I’m sure I still would be perfectly happy with the DT 990.

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Werner,
You cant buy a ticket for tomorrow..... enjoy.

[brian2957]

Hi mate , RE: PM. I wouldn't have been able to afford upgrades if I hadn't

stopped smoking a couple of years ago .

Best thing I ever did . Keep it up. :)

Brian.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


You cant buy a ticket for tomorrow..... enjoy.

I fear my English is not good enough to fully understand this phrase that way it was intended :-(

Werner.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Don't let that worry you Werner - I haven't got a clue what that means either!

[Alex_UK]

I think what Tony is getting at is that there is no guarantee you will be alive tomorrow. Well, after a bit of thinking that's what I decided!! ;)

[Werner Berghofer]

Alex,


I think what Tony is getting at is that there is no guarantee you will be alive tomorrow.

I see, thanks a lot for helping me!

That was also what I assumed when reading Tony’s reply, and this also was exactly what I had in mind when suggesting to Tony to purchase a good, affordable headphone and to begin enjoying it now instead of waiting for a time in the future when the more expensive headphone may become affordable.

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Aye,
Thats the long and short of it.....were not here for a long time,were here for a good time.

[technobear]

Aye,
Thats the long and short of it.....were not here for a long time,were here for a good time.

Your keyboard appears to be missing the apostrophe key :scratch:

Allow me to translate for Werner's benefit:


That's the long and short of it.....we're not here for a long time, we're here for a good time.

Fixt! :D

[wee tee cee]

Chris,
I'm sure its got one somewhere.....Thanks for the grammar lesson.

[brian2957]

I'm always going to be a smoker....just i am not smoking. I love it with a passion but its a lifestyle choice...£200 plus a month on something thats knocking fuck out me ......standing at the back-door in the pishing rain/snow/freezing...WTF.

The budget would let me run to a pair of Werners babies and maybe the audio technica jobbies......the guys at loud and clear in glasgow have offered me a loan of a burnt in pair of grado 325i when the head amp arrives. At least it will give me something to compare the superluxes to. The sennhiesers dont seem to get a lot of bad press and would maybe offer a datum point for me.

I read somewhere the 668b has been voiced like Werners cans, If thats the case then if they work with the head amp they are the front runner for the fag money.
Tony.
Was in Loud and Clear Monday fir the first time in years . The last time I was
there I purchased a Roksan Candy amp . Nice people . They gave me a very
good deal on a V-Link . Like you mate I will always be a smoker . The trick is
not to smoke the first cigarette , then you can't start again. It's a lot easier
not to smoke than it is to smoke . All you do is not smoke ! If you smoke you have to find the money for them , you have to go to the shop to buy them
then you have to find a flame to light your cigarette. Then you have to find a place to smoke , usually in the cold and rain , then you have to dispose of the ash and dout . Then you have to go to the doctor for something to help with the cough and chest pains . Need I go on ? Do yerself a favour mate .
Brian.:)

[wee tee cee]

Brian,
I was getting scunnered...The morning coughing routine was ripping my knitting.
Saw an article two weeks ago about the big C......shit, I ticked most of the boxes ,maybe time for a re-think whilst its still MY idea.
Tony.

[alan47]

Well done,if i lived in Glasgow and had to stand on the back step i would give up to!!.Not quite so bad in the sunny south..
Just to confuse you even more,i have owned ten pairs of phones over the last couple of years,and have ended up with a pair of modded Grado SR325i's that make all my earlier phones sound as if they were broken.
Good luck with your search,hope you don't put on to much weight.

[Maximum]

Well done,if i lived in Glasgow and had to stand on the back step i would give up to!!.Not quite so bad in the sunny south..
Just to confuse you even more,i have owned ten pairs of phones over the last couple of years,and have ended up with a pair of modded Grado SR325i's that make all my earlier phones sound as if they were broken.
Good luck with your search,hope you don't put on to much weight.

Hmm what kind of mods had been done?

[wee tee cee]

Hmm what kind of mods had been done?

Might get the chance to hear a pair of standard 325s, I would be interested to know what the mods improve...also if they would hammer my budget as the 325s are right on the limit as standard.
Tony.

[simon g]

I've also got the MF M1HPA amplifer ~ an excellent amplifier that is well ahead of the Slee Solo & PSU and Lehmann Rihinelander that I listened to. Great facilities as well, with no annoying external power supply.

You may be interested to learn that I'm having very good results with AKG Q701 phones, which are under your budget. These are a signature version of the K702 and, despite what you may read elsewhere, there are sonic improvements over the K702. They are very fast, detailed and airy. Do not be put off by reports of no bass. Bass is there, it's just very accurate and not over emphasised. Maybe overall the Q701 leans towards over analytical for some. If you want to hear what's going on on the music and all the contributory layers in the mix, then these are for you. They do require extensive 'running in'.

I'm now concentrating on my headphone rig so that I can experiment with different types of sound presentation from my other systems, without mucking about with them (they both now work so well that I'm loathe to change merley for change sake).

Next step is to see what high end 'phones have to offer. I may well start with the HD800, but more likely with the T1 (as I've had previous good experiences with Beyer products).

[wee tee cee]

Simon,
Thanks for that, there isn't a whole lot of reviews on the m1 hpa so some personal experience is greatly appreciated. The AKG q 701 does get very good reviews, It was on my short list as I dont really hanker after a bass emphasised delivery.
Thanks Tony.

[StanleyB]

Next step is to see what high end 'phones have to offer. I may well start with the HD800, but more likely with the T1 (as I've had previous good experiences with Beyer products).
The HD800 is a PITA to get driven correctly. I had to do quite a bit of experimenting with headamp configuration before I got a result that I am happy with. I have sent a PM to various people who had put their HD800 back on sale on ebay, just so that I could get a rough idea why they were jumping ship. In most cases it was the difficulty in driving those cans.

[Cans]

Can I put in a good word for the Audeze LCD2's , they're real high end. I can't compare them to the T1's , HD800's or the Grado G1000s, but by gum I'll bet they're worth eliminating from your enquiries at least.
I like them. They're extremely detailed; are electrostaic speakers and are not from the mass produced giants. Those were the 3 attributes I read about that made me buy them.
Without a doubt, I'd have been happy with either the Beyer , Grado or Sennheiser tho. It's just that these felt like like they were offering something different.
And I heard about Stax just after I bought these......:):):):)

[Tim]

The HD800 is a PITA to get driven correctly.
I have tried the HD800's with a Lehmann Audio Black Cube Linear Stan, they worked really well with it. ;)

[wee tee cee]

Heavens above......the budgets 300.
Lets keep it semi sensible ,or as sensible as spending this much on cans ,can get.
Tony.

[Tim]

Heavens above......the budgets 300.
Lets keep it semi sensible ,or as sensible as spending this much on cans ,can get.
Tony.
I think it just went a little 'off topic' that's all ;)

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


Heavens above......the budgets 300

exactly also my opinion :-)

That’s the reason why I suggested getting a Beyerdynamic DT 990/600 Ω now instead of waiting for better days and purchasing a much more expensive Beyerdynamic T1 sometime in the future.

Werner.

[worrasf]

Tony,



exactly also my opinion :-)

That’s the reason why I suggested getting a Beyerdynamic DT 990/600 Ω now instead of waiting for better days and purchasing a much more expensive Beyerdynamic T1 sometime in the future.

Werner.
Just ordered these - on offer at Amazon for £229 - having scoped reviews these promise to be a lot of bang for my buck and I reckon will partner my SOHA II headphone amp very nicely :)

Steve

[Alex_UK]

I was just about to suggest checking Amazon for anyone after headphones (and other stuff) as they have a bit of a sale on at the mo... must... resist...

[worrasf]

must... resist...

"Resistance is useless" :)

(Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy)

Steve

[Werner Berghofer]

Stephen,


Just ordered these

congratulations on your purchase, the price was really good! Please return to this thread and share your listening impressions, as I am really interested in your opinion about these headphones.

Werner.

[worrasf]

Stephen,



Please return to this thread and share your listening impressions, as I am really interested in your opinion about these headphones.

Werner.

Thanks Werner - will do. It was your post that got me researching them in the first place

Steve

[Werner Berghofer]

Steve,


It was your post that got me researching them in the first place

gosh, I wasn’t aware that I was so much convincing with posting in my bizarre English on this forum. Makes me seriously think about the amout of commissions I could earn for acting as undercover sales rep for Apple, Beyerdynamic and Schiit Audio products :-)

Werner.

[Tim]

Schiit Audio products
Ha ha, well you can add me here too, as I have just contacted the UK distributor for Shiit as I want to try out a Valhalla!

:cool:

Happy New Year Werner.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tim,


I want to try out a Valhalla!

congratulations! Which headphones do you plan to use with this amplifier? The Sennheiser HD 650?

Happy New Year to you too, Tim.

Werner.

[Tim]

Which headphones do you plan to use with this amplifier? The Sennheiser HD 650?
At the moment yes Werner, but I do also plan to upgrade the headphones too, probably to the HD800 which I have been very impressed by. The upgrades to the headphone side of my system are my final changes :)

[Werner Berghofer]

Tim,


The upgrades to the headphone side of my system are my final changes :)

are you sure about this? Last night I had a strange dream: I was reading posts by you in which you told about your recent switch to an Apple (shudder!) Mac mini and an Airport Express and how happy you are with streaming music wirelessly in your home and remotely controlling the Mac mini from your iPad.

Then I awoke and realized how unbelievable and crazy this idea was.

Werner.

[Tim]

Ah yes, but I don't count that Werner as it's just a computer . . . and it's just a dream . . . ;)

[wee tee cee]

Tim/Werner,
I need to ask....Is the jump from a hd650-hd800 or 990/600 - t1 a great one or subtle improvement. As stated in my post, I want cans that are keepers, If it means saving for a few months more, I will.
Tony.

[StanleyB]

Also listen to the D7000 if you like to hear details in the bass.

[Tim]

Is the jump from a hd650-hd800 a great one or subtle improvement.
Tony in this case I would say yes, but for differing reasons than just 'how they sound'. What makes the 800's stand out for me is the very natural and outside the head soundstage. I have never heard headphones that present the music so naturally and it's the nearest I have heard to loudspeakers. I also really like the Sennheiser sound, which I know is a personal thing. However, the HD650's driven by the right amp are an excellent pair of headphones and it is a huge jump to the 800's, so you would have to listen to them both and consider this carefully. The 800's as Stan has mentioned do also need the right headamp to get the best out of them, so this should be budgeted for too. TBH if your initial budget is 300 it maybe a step too far and you will need to do a lot of headphone listening to justify the cost?

The 800's are also big and some folk find them uncomfortable, so you need to evaluate this too. I haven't heard the T1 or the Audeze LCD-2, but the 800's are the best headphones I have ever heard for presenting a very spatial soundstage - well recorded large scale orchestral works are outstanding and Mahler can have you on the edge of your seat.

[StanleyB]

What makes the 800's stand out for me is the very natural and outside the head soundstage. I have never heard headphones that present the music so naturally and it's the nearest I have heard to loudspeakers.
The Sony MDR-F1 runs rings around the HD800 in that respect. My other half has even snatched mine from me and made it hers:(.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


Is the jump from a hd650-hd800 or 990/600 - t1 a great one or subtle improvement.

can speak only about the Beyerdynamic part of this question: it’s a great one, but of course also the budgetary jump is a great one.

Beyerdynamic DT 990/600 Ω: € 295.– | £ 246.–
Beyerdynamic T1: € 879.– | £ 733.–

(these are the German/Austrian prices including 20 percent VAT)

Both models explicitly are keepers; it depends on your budget, your main focus, your preferences and your personal taste. If possible I suggest to try these models for yourself before making a decision. Compare them also to the Sennheiser flagship models; both manufacturers have different philosophies and “house signatures”.

Didn’t I already try to answer this question on December 22nd (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=277869&postcount=21) in this thread?

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Werner/Tim,
Ye, you both answered my question. I've had a bit of time off recently and its got me thinking.
I built up a few mountain bikes that have served me well for nearly a decade and many thousands of miles. A half decent frame will cost over £1000 before you have added a component.......you pay for what you get.
I think I will wait and get myself a top notch can.....A good headphone set up will enable me to hear something very close..... to what's available at justifiable money.
Might take some saving , but I look forward to posting my subjective findings.
Thanks gents for the honesty and no bullshit Insight.
Regards Tony.

[Fi-Wi]

Just ordered these - on offer at Amazon for £229 - having scoped reviews these promise to be a lot of bang for my buck and I reckon will partner my SOHA II headphone amp very nicely :)

Steve

I've been looking at this offer for a few days now.

Today I received a brand new pair of Superlux HD-661 (closed HP's for the unknown) but they do not beat my HD-668B. I also concluded that I prefer "open" to "closed" phones.

I am seriously contemplating exchanging the HD-661's for a beyerdynamics HD-990 but am wondering if a 600 ohm version is worth the extra 130 euros compared to the 250 ohm version, considering my (non high-end)Yamaha/Squeezebox combo with Caiman/Gator dac that I listen to 99% of my time.

[technobear]

Today I received a brand new pair of Superlux HD-661 (closed HP's for the unknown) but they do not beat my HD-668B. I also concluded that I prefer "open" to "closed" phones.


How could you possibly tell after less than a day? :scratch:

They will need 200 hours before you hear what they really can do http://www.technobear.btinternet.co.uk/emoticons/progress.gif

[Fi-Wi]

Yes that would be daft so let me elaborate a bit.

Unfortunately only after ordering them I realized these hp's have an impedance (68 ohm) close to the 668B's (56 ohm), and I cannot enjoy music listening through the 668's connected to my Caiman/Gator. The HD661 turned out to experience the same distortion (as does my Sennheiser HD570).

Furthermore I noticed I dislike the closed hp concept, only after using them for a couple of hours let alone 200+.

That's why I consider trading them in for a beyerdynamic HD990.

[wee tee cee]

I am a bit disappointed I missed that temple audio has brought out a head amp/pre amp. It would have been right up my street, requirements wise. I've got five of there amps in service at the moment and rate them highly.

[worrasf]

Stephen,



congratulations on your purchase, the price was really good! Please return to this thread and share your listening impressions, as I am really interested in your opinion about these headphones.

Werner.

Hi Werner

Well the DT 990/600's arrived today and I have had an opportunity to try them out - :)

Build quality is superb, they look and feel a real quality piece of kit and you get a nice storage bag for them to boot ;)

My main headphones prior to the 990's were Grado SR60i's (very nice affordable cans) so comparison is to these and clearly the 990's are only 1 hour into their playing life so things may (will) change). Both are driven by my SOHA II headphone amp.

First off the 990's are easily driven by the SOHA II. OK they require a bit more of the loud knob than the SR 60i's but not much. Roughly equivalent volume/sound pressure has the SR60i's volume control at 8 o'clock and the 990's at 10 o'clock so loads more gain to play with if required.

Sound wise there could hardly be a bigger difference between the 990's and the SR60i's. Now I enjoy the SR60i's very much, light, airy and dynamic sound - very engaging with a typical "open back" feel to the music - lots of awards won and all that. The first huge difference with the 990's is the bass - it's low, very low, resonant and tuneful without a hint of "overhang". Swapping back to the SR60's they sounded very "thin" by comparison. I had to confirm that the 990's are also open back design as they had much more of the closed back presentation on first listening.

I found myself thinking - heck these sound dark but on more listening I think it was the initial "shock" of how much bass they were chucking out because having got used to it it was apparent that it wasn't drowning out the other frequencies at all - everything was there in it's rightful place in the mix. the 990's are very revealing so I was hearing fine detail I'd not heard before. They certainly deliver a dynamic full-frequency response but it's not shouting in your face like the SR60i's are won't to do - rather the presentation is more considered and refined. I think that they will allow far longer listening sessions than the SR60i's which tended to get a bit fatiguing after a while.

Finally, inter-track noise is non-existent. I wound the volume right up with no source playing and it was as if the amp was switched off. No hum, hiss, crackle - nada - totally silent. This boads very well for the future methinks

So very very early days and I'm sure the sound will alter over the next few hundred hours but first impressions are very favourable. I thought I'd post this very early impression of them as I know a few folk are considering which headphones to buy at the moment.

:cool:

Steve

[wee tee cee]

Steve,
great write up, dare say as they burn in things will improve even more.

[Werner Berghofer]

Steve,


I found myself thinking - heck these sound dark […]

funny, my first impression was that these headphones sounded extremely bright, but I was used to the sound of my AKG K701 at that time. This impression changed within the next ten minutes of listening. After one hour out of curiosity I tried again the AKG K701, but I realized that the Beyerdynamic DT 990/600 Ω were superior, both in terms of sound and in wearing comfort.


I thought I'd post this very early impression of them as I know a few folk are considering which headphones to buy at the moment.

Many thanks for your great write up. I’m really glad that you like these headphones!

Werner.

[Fi-Wi]

I received my DT990/250 Pro yesterday and how pleasantly surprised I am to wear these hp's. Very comfortable with the soft velour pads and my initial worries about the extra (Pro) clamp were unnecessary. It's easy to wear these hp's for hours continuously. Solidly built as well and not as huge as some other popular hp's on the market.

Unfortunately my Caiman/Gator also makes them distort a little as if the gain's too high. Not as much as it does with my Superlux HD668B (58 ohm), HD661 (68 ohm) or Sennheiser HD 570 (64 ohm) but strangly enough the 250 ohm of the DT990 Pro isn't enough to make my Caiman/Gator sing like angels.

I am surprised by that because I see a lot of good reviews with this combo on the internet. I already had my Gator replaced by a new one but without luck. Maybe the 600 ohm version will work but that doesn't make sense, I mean a Gator is a Gator and a DT 990/250 is a DT 990/250. How is it possible that mine distorts and any other one doesn't?

[Werner Berghofer]

Steven,


How is it possible that mine distorts and any other one doesn't?

Don’t want to say bad things about the Gator board or Beresford DACs, but occasionally they do distort. This can be noticed also when listening via loudspeakers. A revealing headphone of course makes this even more audible, no matter if an impedance of 250 or 600 Ohm is used.

Werner.

[bobbasrah]

Steven,



Don't want to say bad things about the Gator board or Beresford DACs, but occasionally they do distort. This can be noticed also when listening via loudspeakers. A revealing headphone of course makes this even more audible, no matter if an impedance of 250 or 600 Ohm is used.

Werner.

Not restricted to any particular DAC either it seems Werner.....

[Werner Berghofer]

Bob,

the well-known distortion issue with Beresford DACs has been discussed in April 2011 here on this forum:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9150&page=9

Since I switched to Schiit Bifrost DACs no distortions can be heard, neither via headphones nor via loudspeakers.

Werner.

[StanleyB]

I am surprised by that because I see a lot of good reviews with this combo on the internet. I already had my Gator replaced by a new one but without luck. Maybe the 600 ohm version will work but that doesn't make sense, I mean a Gator is a Gator and a DT 990/250 is a DT 990/250. How is it possible that mine distorts and any other one doesn't?
Unplug the DAC from your amp via the RCA cables, and then try the headphones again. Some amps short out their AUX inputs when there is no input signal. That would in turn short out the DAC, and this would alter the input impedance of the headphone circuit.

[Fi-Wi]

Stanley, I tried your suggestion and that is exactly what causes the distortion!

Without my interconnects plugged into my receiver the distortion vanishes. When I plug in the HD1000's the distortion is back again.

Now that I've found the cause, how can I prevent my receiver to interfere (other than replacing it)?

[StanleyB]

Try the variable RCA output on the DAC into your amp. That output has a buffer stage, which partially isolates the shorted out input on the amp from the DAC. If you also leave the amp on whilst listening to headphone, the amp's input circuit should be open, which should also overcome the problem.
It's not a common practice to have the inputs on an amp shorted out when the amp is switched off. But some amp designers seem to have introduced that idea in the last couple of years for some reason.

[Fi-Wi]

Thank you for this information. I will try this tonight when I am at home again.

[wee tee cee]

Finally got my headphone amp this morning....Musical fidelity m1 hpa. I only have the superlux 668b to listen to it with....boy o boy does a good head amp make a difference.
I plumbed it into my system as a pre amp...Im quite shocked the improvement it has made over running power amps directly from the dac/ lap top.
It and the mark grant interconnect will need burning in but I must admit I am taken aback the difference ADDING a pre into the system has made.

I have bought a pair of sennhieser hd650s with my budget, all going well I should get them on Monday. Really looking forward to marrying the two up.
Tony.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


boy o boy does a good head amp make a difference

!

[wee tee cee]

werner,
I could see your lips moving but couldn't hear what you were saying.

[Werner Berghofer]

I could see your lips moving but couldn't hear what you were saying.

Sorry; just meant to express “Hear, hear!” :-)

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Werner,
A veiled pink Floyd reference......you have been a great council for me, in my tentative stages.
All respect ,
Tony.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


A veiled pink Floyd reference

that’s from “Comfortably numb”, isn’t it?

I'm happy that I could support you in your decision-making.

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Got the hd 650s this morning....just wondering how long they will need to burn in. They seem quite laid back and a bit closed in. Maybe I will just need to get used to them.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


They seem quite laid back and a bit closed in

that’s what Sennheiser headphones usually are known for. Hope you get used to their sound.

Kind regards,

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Well,
Initial impressions of the hd650s were quite unimpressive. My first night with them my son was convinced they were getting pumped onto e bay. I only have about 15 hours on them now but they seem to be opening up a bit OR I am becoming more accustom to them.
In comparison to the superlux 668b the main differences are,
The comfort- the 650s are fantastic over long periods, no :ner:sweaty ears and fiddling with the straps to get comfy.

The isolation of the cord is vastly superior. Every move of your head with the 668 is heard as the power lead touches your clothing.

Refinement and lack of fatigue, switching back to the the superluxes really does highlight how bright and energetic they sound probably to the detriment of a little harshness and sibilance.
They do however sound very open and revealing and to my ears have a more realistic soundstage.
Early days/ hours I will give them a 100 hours or they're a bouts....I am concious that my head amp and interconnect will both settle down in time.

My son who often lends me his 17 year old ears came to the same initial conclusions as myself. He was as surprised as I was, that the superluxes at almost a tenth of the price bettered the 650s ....as he stated , the 650s were flagship cans, up until a couple of years ago. I will be patient and see if they come good with time.
Some fancy velvet pads for the superluxes might even the fight up.
Its all fun....John Martyn and Danny Thompson haven't ever sounded this good.
Tony.

[Covenant]

The velour pads for the 668's make a huge difference. Have you done the filter mod Tony?

[technobear]

Both the cans and the amp will take 200 hours to come right http://www.technobear.btinternet.co.uk/emoticons/geek.gif

[wee tee cee]

The velour pads for the 668's make a huge difference. Have you done the filter mod Tony?
Jerry,
What s the filter mod? also out of interest what difference do the the pads make and can you recommend somewhere to purchase them.
Tony.

[wee tee cee]

Both the cans and the amp will take 200 hours to come right http://www.technobear.btinternet.co.uk/emoticons/geek.gif
Chris,
I may well have to be a little more patient than first thought.
Tony.

[bobbasrah]

Jerry,
What s the filter mod? also out of interest what difference do the the pads make and can you recommend somewhere to purchase them.
Tony.

Tony, there is a fair bit on mods to the Superlux if you Google it. I looked up the mods when I was buying the 668B for my daughter. Quite forgot about it until Jerry raised it. The earpads recommended are the AKG 240 type but they are about 30 quid from memory. Somebody managed to get Beyers to fit also, and there is a chinese site flogging copies bia Fleabay. The filter is inside the casing and apparently can be easily slipped out.
Bob

Oops - Filter on the diaphragm side, and can be put back easily. Will go look up the pads again - gottem

[Werner Berghofer]

Chris,


Both the cans and the amp will take 200 hours to come right

I think neither the cans nor the amp need this time, but it takes a while for the listener's brain to get used to the new and unfamiliar sound.

No bad feelings about Sennheiser, but the last Sennheiser headphones I really liked were the HD 414 back in 1978.

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Bob,
I had a wee look, theres some weird and wonderful stuff going on to be sure.
I have previously tried removing the foam filter but felt it was overly bright and aggressive. Maybe try it again now the headamp is in play. Hows your daughter enjoying them?
Tony.

[bobbasrah]

Bob,
I had a wee look, theres some weird and wonderful stuff going on to be sure.
I have previously tried removing the foam filter but felt it was overly bright and aggressive. Maybe try it again now the headamp is in play. Hows your daughter enjoying them?
Tony.

Do a Google Tony for 668B and mod, and you will stumble across similar to what I found. The site I recollect had all sorts on it doing weird stuff to alter them, two that I recollect being one guy running Belden cable to replace the original feed, and another who packed out the back of the diaphragm with Polyfilla. Guess which one worked ? :eek:
The filter must be held in some form of cage, and I remember one of the contributors talking of replacing the filter with speaker cloth, another with pantyhose.... To keep loose hairs out from the driver (no jokes please...):D

Daughter 2 only started using the cans a few days ago for some reason, and has not as yet fired up the dac/amp for it. So early days.... I should live so long.:rolleyes:
Apart from my mum, I seem to be the only one in 4 generations of our family who enjoys music and trying tinkering with equipment. Generation 5 is only 9 months old so time yet I hope.....:cool:

[Covenant]

Tony, there is a fair bit on mods to the Superlux if you Google it. I looked up the mods when I was buying the 668B for my daughter. Quite forgot about it until Jerry raised it. The earpads recommended are the AKG 240 type but they are about 30 quid from memory. Somebody managed to get Beyers to fit also, and there is a chinese site flogging copies bia Fleabay. The filter is inside the casing and apparently can be easily slipped out.
Bob

Oops - Filter on the diaphragm side, and can be put back easily. Will go look up the pads again - gottem

Hi Tony,
The mods are for the 681's but I bet you a pound to a piece of sh*t the driver in the 688 is the same one as the cups look identical-its the headband that's different. Have a look on Rock Grotto at the 681 mods and if you are interested PM Solderdude who designed the filter. Mine is in a separate box that the cans plug into. The velour pads came from Tholmann if I remember correctly and cost about £20 on a group buy.

[wee tee cee]

Jerry,
I had a good read of the various threads, the 668b seems to start out more neutral than the 681 so doesn't really require the filter treatment. I checked out the Tholman site...thanks for that.
I think werner may well be right, the head amp sounded great straight out the box....The hd650s just aint doing it for me. I've got to trust my ears, each time I go back to the superluxes my foot starts tapping again and the volume starts creeping up. I'm concious cables and equipment does settle down after a while but if the sound is fundamentally not to your liking no matter how much running/burning in will solve it.

[bobbasrah]

Jerry,
I had a good read of the various threads, the 668b seems to start out more neutral than the 681 so doesn't really require the filter treatment. I checked out the Tholman site...thanks for that.
I think werner may well be right, the head amp sounded great straight out the box....The hd650s just aint doing it for me. I've got to trust my ears, each time I go back to the superluxes my foot starts tapping again and the volume starts creeping up. I'm concious cables and equipment does settle down after a while but if the sound is fundamentally not to your liking no matter how much running/burning in will solve it.

What are the odds that the Beyers come back onto the discussion shortly.....:eyebrows:

[Covenant]

Jerry,
I had a good read of the various threads, the 668b seems to start out more neutral than the 681 so doesn't really require the filter treatment. I checked out the Tholman site...thanks for that.
I think werner may well be right, the head amp sounded great straight out the box....The hd650s just aint doing it for me. I've got to trust my ears, each time I go back to the superluxes my foot starts tapping again and the volume starts creeping up. I'm concious cables and equipment does settle down after a while but if the sound is fundamentally not to your liking no matter how much running/burning in will solve it.

Sounds like you know what your doing. If it were me the HD650's would be going back.
I still think the filter may be of some benefit, the values of the resistors may need to change in the 681.

[Werner Berghofer]

Bob,


What are the odds that the Beyers come back onto the discussion shortly

quite true! I never understood why they were taken out of this discussion.

Werner.

[Werner Berghofer]

Jerry,


If it were me the HD650's would be going back.

I completely share this opinion. If I had purchased a product which needs to be “modded” or – even worse – “burnt-in” before it shall be able to fully develop its potential and meet my expectations, then I certainly would have bought the wrong product.

Werner.

[Tim]

The only thing I would add here is ultimately the HD650's may not be to your preference sound wise, as headphones as you are indicating are indeed very personal. But before you dismiss them maybe you should try to hear them with a headamp that's accepted as being ideally matched to them - like a Lehmannaudio Black cube or it's clone the Matrix M-Stage? I used to have an all Musical Fidelity system and drove my Sennheiser HD650's with a Musical Fidelity X-Cans V2 headphone amplifier. Now this was not a bad amplifier, but it certainly didn't IMO get the best out of the 650's. However, when I tried them with a Lehmann Black Cube the soundstage opened up, the bass improved significantly and the whole experience was more pleasurable - needless to say the X-Cans were on eBay pretty sharpish. I get the same results now from the M-Stage amp, which cost's a lot less than a Black Cube.

I'm also just about to trial a Schiit Valhalla, so that will be interesting to see how it compares :eyebrows:

[bobbasrah]

I suspect that Tony's taste in sound and the laid back sound that is the 650 is the issue. Changing from his current newly acquired pride and joy to a different amp more suitable to the 650 is not going to address that....

[technobear]

I'm also just about to trial a Schiit Valhalla, so that will be interesting to see how it compares :eyebrows:

Ooh, ooh, please sir! :wave:

Can I come over and have a little bake-off with you when you have the Valhalla in residence?

I can bring the Audiolab and the T1's :)

[StanleyB]

The Denon D2000 would have been a better choice at that price range. It's not quite as good as the D7000, but that's not a disgrace in itself.

[MartinT]

I'm also just about to trial a Schiit Valhalla, so that will be interesting to see how it compares :eyebrows:

I'd love to have one just so that I could say I have a Shiit amp ;)

[MartinT]

All this talk of headphones made me dig out my Sony MDR-CD470 closed-back phones now that I have the Gator in my Caiman. Nice but slightly old-school sound. I don't use headphones much (and usually use some in-ear ones when travelling) but I wonder whether it would be worth investing in a pair of 668Bs?

[bobbasrah]

I'd love to have one just so that I could say I have a Shiit amp ;)

And as it is a valve, perhaps HOT could also go in there....:D

[MartinT]

Reminds me of the one about the zoo that only had one dog: it was a shiatsu.

[Werner Berghofer]

Bob,


And as it is a valve, perhaps HOT could also go in there

certainly! After 15 minutes one can easily boil eggs on the Valhalla’s surface. In winter time it’s fine to have a nice little radiator next to that comfortable listening chair :-)

But I’ve read often that the Schitt Asgard (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=1) – although a solid state amp – runs even hotter than the Valhalla (pure tube amp) and the Lyr (hybrid).

Werner.

[Tim]

I'd love to have one just so that I could say I have a Shiit amp ;)
:lol: well funnily enough that is a big selling point for me, silly I know as it's the sound that counts but I really want a Schiit amp too :)

[Canetoad]

Reminds me of the one about the zoo that only had one dog: it was a shiatsu.

Don't quit your day job Martin! :ner: :)

[Covenant]

Wonder if their head office is called the Shiit House?

[bobbasrah]

So it's official thread crapping then.....

[MartinT]

Apologies! I did ask a question in post #107, I know I'm not in the league to spend big money on headphones as speakers are where it's at for me (and I spent enough on those).

[bobbasrah]

Apologies! I did ask a question in post #107, I know I'm not in the league to spend big money on headphones as speakers are where it's at for me (and I spent enough on those).

OK perhaps I should have said thread shiiting.;)
Martin, my first real audio as a student was through Koss headphones. When I realised that although they are very selfish in use, the quality of audio they can produce compared to speakers in the same price range is unbeatable. Good speakers are brilliant, but as always, comprimised by environment.

It has been an interesting thread so far. The Schiit gear certainly I had never heard of until Werner raised them, and they do appear to offer serious bang for buck. Very well thought of elsewhere too.

As for the headphone issue which started all this off, Tony has yet to bring things up to date on his Sennheiser foray. :scratch:

[wee tee cee]

Just finished work, poured a glass of vino and placed the 668bs on my head. The 650s are back in they're box.
I have a pair of hd202s, the sound signature or I suppose I could call it the house sound is very similar to the 650s.
I thought the 650s being open would sound far more open than the closed 202s do.
If I was to try the two headphones blind without knowledge of price, the 650s would edge away with it build quality and comfort wise.
For me in the all Important sound quality the 668s are far more enjoyable...open/dynamic/revealing.
I first plugged in the 650s and must have took them off and looked into the cups on three occasions thinking I had not removed packaging of some sort.
VEILED/DARK .....I thought the occasional negative review was non-sense, with the overall plaudits they receive. It would indeed appear to be a very personal experience sound wise.
Plugging both cans into the lap top and then switching to the amp just improves the sound of the superluxes, in relation to the senns it just lessens the disappointment slightly.
You live and learn.... I'm very glad that 5 weeks off the smoking bankrolled an opportunity to try some top notch cans. I shouldn't lose too much money selling them on.
I feel the need to purchase some more of the superlux stable hd 330/ hd 440 /hd 660 beckon.
The 668b I could whole heartedly recommend to anyone....I see them in the same light as my temple audio amps....bang for buck/ giant killers.
Tony.

[Covenant]

I tried a pair of 661's that DaveK was kind enough to lend me. They were excellent but I prefer the comfort of the 681's. Don't think they are available yet but must be due out at any moment.
Here is a review:
http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=review&action=display&thread=7072

[bobbasrah]

Is there no way to swap or trade these in with the supplier for a different set Tony? I did wonder after your comments on the 668Bs whether the Senns would seem underwhelming, and suspected that Beyers would better choice, but at least you gave them a whirl and know now what they sound like now.
I have not personally tried the Superlux, but they do appear to punch above their weight according to many users.

[MartinT]

The 668b I could whole heartedly recommend to anyone....I see them in the same light as my temple audio amps....bang for buck/ giant killers.

Thanks Tony, that's what I needed to hear. Think I'll take a punt seeing as they're not expensive and my Sonys are tired and the foam pads are aging badly.

[roob]

But I’ve read often that the Schitt Asgard – although a solid state amp – runs even hotter than the Valhalla (pure tube amp) and the Lyr (hybrid).
I can confirm that the Asgard does get a bit warm, sounds good though.

[wee tee cee]

Wonder if their head office is called the Shiit House?
I bet its made of brick.

[bobbasrah]

I bet its made of brick.

Quite forgot about that one Tony, bet Schiit are delighted at all the free publicity they are getting from all these jokes. Deliberate maybe :scratch:

PS - Update from daughter 2 is that the 668B's are a joy, she finally got them fired up on the Fiio, and is delighted. Yet to find out how she has it set up, and whether she is playing CD, mp3 or whatever, but that could end up being a nightmare as she is a child of the mp3 plug and play culture....:rolleyes:
:cool:

[wee tee cee]

Bob,
The plug and play culture is the future. I cant help but think with Apples recent announcement of high bit rate down loads we might be at a turning point regards quantity versus quality. The quality of gaming graphics and audio has vastly improved, the blue ray format is terrific..... I'm hoping audio will follow soon were computer daftees like myself can benefit.
Glad your daughter is enjoying the cans, steer her towards a cowon player to get the benefits on the move.
Tony

[bobbasrah]

Bob,
The plug and play culture is the future. I cant help but think with Apples recent announcement of high bit rate down loads we might be at a turning point regards quantity versus quality. The quality of gaming graphics and audio has vastly improved, the blue ray format is terrific..... I'm hoping audio will follow soon were computer daftees like myself can benefit.
Glad your daughter is enjoying the cans, steer her towards a cowon player to get the benefits on the move.
Tony

24 bit will be the modern generation's plug and play.
The evolving Apple saga is I suspect a combination of two vested interests - The industry's lethargy and inate inability to change it's business model, leaves the door open for Apple to leverage their iTunes model and become the primary distributor. With legal and DRM wrangles to deal with it will not come soon unfortunately. That aside the independent publishing and distribution websites are flourishing, so time is not on their side.

What is your next move on the cans? Can you get hold of or borrow a set of Beyer 990's to see how their presentation suits, or are you still smarting over the Sennheiser experiment as indicative of what the expensive end has to offer?

[wee tee cee]

Bob,
I'm going to take a hit sticking them on the bay so might as well run a signal through them for a couple of days and see if they open up a bit. I have a few days off so will have a play around and see what happens.
I can get a loan of grado 325i from loud and clear in glasgow, at least it will give me another flavour.
The Thomann site does quite a variety of superluxes at funny money...next months smoking money is already getting psychologically spent.
Tony.

[RochaCullen]

Bob,
I'm going to take a hit sticking them on the bay so might as well run a signal through them for a couple of days and see if they open up a bit. I have a few days off so will have a play around and see what happens.
I can get a loan of grado 325i from loud and clear in glasgow, at least it will give me another flavour.
The Thomann site does quite a variety of superluxes at funny money...next months smoking money is already getting psychologically spent.
Tony.

I've been looking at headphones in the same price catagory, but have put the purchase on the long finger (other stuff to pay for first), but i would love to hear what you think of the beyers, compared to the other stuff you have listened to, should you manage to get your hands on them.

:cool:

It is funny how similar the SUPERLUX HD-330 looks to the beyerdynamic headphones. If you do spend your fag money on those, please post a write up.

Thanks,
Nathan

[bobbasrah]

Bob,
I'm going to take a hit sticking them on the bay so might as well run a signal through them for a couple of days and see if they open up a bit. I have a few days off so will have a play around and see what happens.
I can get a loan of grado 325i from loud and clear in glasgow, at least it will give me another flavour.
The Thomann site does quite a variety of superluxes at funny money...next months smoking money is already getting psychologically spent.
Tony.
Give them a few days yet Tony they may improve. I somehow doubt if they will radically change though.
If you still want to sell them, you might think about advertising them on the forum...You never know...
The Grados will definately be brighter and should be more lively. I tried them a while back (cannot remember the model), but didn't like the comfort or sound despite the hype at the time. (One you're trying sounds like a Beemer....325i) Tried the Senns but despite the comfort and clarity they were too laid back. The Beyers ticked all the boxes for me, and I ultimately bought them over here. I hadn't used cans for a while so I had no recent comparative unlike yourself.

Had a look on the Thomann site and some interesting prices. P&P is 10 yoyo from Germany, which isn't outrageous I guess. Will send the link to daughter 2 in case she wants to upgrade the earpads for the 668Bs.
Sounds like a good headamp/dac you got though so you will get the best INTo the cans....:cool:

PS - Rocha. Only an Irishman could speak of putting something on the long finger. I think many of the Superlux are AKG clones, but not sure.
Better luck with the hurley this year. Up the Cats

[Werner Berghofer]

Bob,


I think many of the Superlux are AKG clones

that’s also my impression, and like Nathan I’m really surprised to see that in my opinion the Superlux HD-330 are an outrageous copy of the typical Beyerdynamic design, at least when viewed from the outside. Reminds me of the similarity between Apple MacBooks and Sony Vaio laptops.

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

A few folks on head fi have compared the superlux 668b to the beyer 880. Apparently they are voiced very similar. Some folks even rate the superlux more highly....at a fraction of the cost.

[bobbasrah]

A few folks on head fi have compared the superlux 668b to the beyer 880. Apparently they are voiced very similar. Some folks even rate the superlux more highly....at a fraction of the cost.

That is quite intriguing Tony, and surprising given their cost and technical spec differences. 880's are the ideal to a lot of users, but personally I preferred the 990s. The Superlux are certainly highly regarded, and in their price range do very much seem a bargain. :D
Next time I am over I'll drag the Beyers over and compare daughter's cans JFS&G.:cool:

[MartinT]

I've just received my 668B at work and gave it a quick try in the PC. First impressions are good, both on the sound and comfort front. I'll try it properly on the Caiman later on and will report on it compared with my old Sonys.

[Canetoad]

I've just received my 668B at work and gave it a quick try in the PC. First impressions are good, both on the sound and comfort front. I'll try it properly on the Caiman later on and will report on it compared with my old Sonys.

I ordered a set too. Should be here in a day or so. I'm hoping they're an improvement on my Senn HD595s. :)

[alan47]

Hmm what kind of mods had been done?

I removed the button from the grill
Removed the plastic ring from inside the cup
Made four holes in the felt behind the driver
put a dob of blue tack on the magnet cover
Removed the plastic gauze from the front
Tried wooden cups,but went back to the ally ones
I only copied what Grado did to the RS1 really.Sound great now.All my others gather dust...

[wee tee cee]

I feel a bit of an eejit.....HD 650--VEILED---CLOSED IN ---BLAH--BLAH---RUN IN---BLAH BLAH.
I took the earpads off and removed the inner foam layer....Bobs your auntie. Just like removing the speaker grills but even more of an obvious move, unless your a complete daftee like myself.
It was so obvious even I didn't think of it.
They now sound like something you would quit the fags for....woo hoo.

[bobbasrah]

I feel a bit of an eejit.....HD 650--VEILED---CLOSED IN ---BLAH--BLAH---RUN IN---BLAH BLAH.
I took the earpads off and removed the inner foam layer....Bobs your auntie. Just like removing the speaker grills but even more of an obvious move, unless your a complete daftee like myself.
It was so obvious even I didn't think of it.
They now sound like something you would quit the fags for....woo hoo.

FFS TONY - YOU ARE KIDDING....:scratch:

[RochaCullen]

FFS TONY - YOU ARE KIDDING....:scratch:

Is this something that you are meant to do??

[bobbasrah]

My initial reading was that Tony had forgotten to remove some packing.... Re-reading it, not so sure, and may well have jumped to the wrong conclusion...
Can only wait to see what he's done and what the verdict is.....

[wee tee cee]

Is this something that you are meant to do??
Probably not. It means the driver is exposed. I picked up on it from a guy on the states on head fi who was experiencing the same problems as my self.
Its maybe not ideal but it has certainly opened things up and enabled a lovely sound stage to emerge. The foam sits under the cup and just lifts off the driver.
Dare say I could experiment with grille cloth or ladies tights (dont want to use stockings it might cause a spike in the frequency range).
I've e mailed sennhieser to see if there is an issue or if the driver could get damaged.

[alan47]

I wouldn't worry about anything that Sennhieser have to say about your email.What you have done is the normal mod that is done by most people when they get HD650's.Just try and keep your hair out of the drivers.:lol:
Easy for you,i had to put my new SR325i's into boiling water to mod them:eek:
PS how's the no smoking going,,cough cough..

[bobbasrah]

I wouldn't worry about anything that Sennhieser have to say about your email.What you have done is the normal mod that is done by most people when they get HD650's.Just try and keep your hair out of the drivers.:lol:
Easy for you,i had to put my new SR325i's into boiling water to mod them:eek:
PS how's the no smoking going,,cough cough..

Were you wearing them at the time of modification Alan, cough, cough......:D

How do they sound to you Tony ????

[Maximum]

I removed the button from the grill
Removed the plastic ring from inside the cup
Made four holes in the felt behind the driver
put a dob of blue tack on the magnet cover
Removed the plastic gauze from the front
Tried wooden cups,but went back to the ally ones
I only copied what Grado did to the RS1 really.Sound great now.All my others gather dust...

Ah yes I was thinking about that myself. I'm using the jumbo pads which not everyone likes with the 325, and I've heard these mods sort out the slight bass reduction you get with these. I pretty much chickened out after a short attempt of removing the buttons.

[wee tee cee]

Bob,
I got off light....sounds like doukin for chips.. Talk about suffering for your art....

[bobbasrah]

How do they sound to you Tony ????

:eek:

[wee tee cee]

Bob,
Very refined with no treble harshness. Proper soundstage with a lovely separation. They seem to be quite laid back presentation wise... definitely on the warm side of neutral. Very easy going-unfatiguing. (if thats a word ).
My son had a listen with his 17 year old unmolested ears, I had to grasp them back off him after the tenth.....no,no...just let me hear this dad...
I'm pretty happy with them, I still need to give them another 60 hours to be fair..
Tony.

[MartinT]

Not wishing to hijack Tony's thread, but a quick word on the Superlux 668Bs: these are proving pretty damned fine for such little money. Midrange is beautifully transparent, sufficiently so to pick up lipping and tiny cues; treble seems extended and not harsh as I expected for cheap phones; bass is a revelation and far better (deeper and more extended) than my old Sonys, despite the latter being closed-back. They go loud enough for my needs from both my laptop and the Caiman. The real proof will be whether they work well with the Sandisk mp3 player I have coming.

The only downside is that external sound spillage is quite high, which might preclude me from using them on aeroplanes.

All in all they are an absolute bargain :)

[wee tee cee]

Martin,
I have tried them in conjunction with a small cowon player...alas the wee player doesn't have the juice to drive them. They are harder to drive than hd202s that my player just about manages to drive.
The 668bs will improve with run in...you always hesitate to recommend audio products but the superluxes are really quite something.
I recently purchased a dedicated head phone amp, when I installed the 668bs I thought I had selected the wrong track...such was the improvement.
I think with the addition of some velvet pads they are absolute giant killers.
I'm delighted its not just my bourbon addled delusion,,,,,
Tony.

[bobbasrah]

Well, well Tony, at least you are getting something more satisfying out of the Senns, and you can compare them directly to the 668B's. Look forward to your comparison in a week, considering the earlier commented comparison to the 880's.

To be fair, few larger diaphragm headphone will be easily driven by a portable player despite the proliferation of portable amps. Portable use is not what these cans were designed for, even with the current fashion to mimic a lost air traffic controller, and a powerful mains amp is where they truly shine.

[technobear]

The real proof will be whether they work well with the Sandisk mp3 player I have coming.

You might like to note that the Sansa players all come with EU (:steam:) nanny state volume limiting :rolleyes:

To get around it, there are two steps to take.

When asked to select your region, select America or Rest Of World, not Europe.

In the settings menu under System Settings, there is a setting for 'Volume'. Select 'High'.

The player will then work as you would expect it to without EU (:steam:) interference.

[Canetoad]

The real proof will be whether they work well with the Sandisk mp3 player I have coming.

Martin,

You could always get one of these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140669303210?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649).

[MartinT]

You might like to note that the Sansa players all come with EU (:steam:) nanny state volume limiting :rolleyes:

Thanks, Chris. I had read that I need to do that, but appreciate the instructions.

[MartinT]

You could always get one of these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140669303210?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649).

Nice, Bernie. I'll keep that in my back pocket if the Sansa Clip+ can't drive them properly. I do also have a nice set of Sony MDR-EX32 in-ear phones for when I really want to be portable (the player and phones will fit inside a large box of matches).

[alan47]

Ah yes I was thinking about that myself. I'm using the jumbo pads which not everyone likes with the 325, and I've heard these mods sort out the slight bass reduction you get with these. I pretty much chickened out after a short attempt of removing the buttons.

Grado does use a lot of glue on the cups and the buttons.
You have to tweak the cups out of the forks and sit them one at a time in a shallow bowl of hot water.The cups will pull apart and the buttons will fall off.
You can then clean off the glue.Do what you want to the insides,ie push a mini jack plug through the felt on the back of the drivers,it won't go far enough to do any damage.Four holes in each is about right for 325's,i did all ten in my SR80i's,but i would suggest you stick to four on the 325's.Put some insulating tape round the insides of the cups and ease them back together.
I have tried Jumbo's,flats and bowls,and found bowls to suit me best.
If you fancy trying some flats,give me a pm and i will lend you mine.
Cheers and good luck.

[MartinT]

I just received the Sansa Clip+ and would like to say that 1) it's tiny and 2) it sounds very good for such a small device. I'll post a separate review once I've had more time to listen to it.

What's funny is that I can dangle it from the stub plug on the 668B headphones to create an on-head music system with no cables!

[technobear]

What's funny is that I can dangle it from the stub plug on the 668B headphones to create an on-head music system with no cables!

Brilliant! I think we need a picture of that :eyebrows:

[MartinT]

Ask and I shall provide...

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/668B_Sansa.jpg

[Canetoad]

Hi Martin. Are you playing flac or MP3 files in it? Flacs tend to flatten the battery in no time flat! :doh:

[MartinT]

320kbps mp3 via the LAME encoder, which sound good. There's no need for FLAC for portable use, in my opinion.

[wee tee cee]

Does It sound any good.....

[technobear]

Does It sound any good.....

Well of course it does :)

The Clip+ is brilliant. So small and light you can clip it to your shirt collar and forget it's there. Sounds great with Sony MDR-EX500's. The latter are quite efficient which extends the battery life. I get 6 or 7 hours playing FLAC. It's better than that on MP3 reason being MP3 is hardware decoded whereas FLAC is software decoded.

I long for the day when a FLAC decoder finds its way into the hardware side of things.

[MartinT]

Indeed, it's a mighty fine sounding miniature.

[Mothman]

They're a brilliant bit kit Martin and a great bang for your buck. My Clip+ gets a LOT of use during the weekday commute and like you I use full size cans but this does require the volume turned up close to max which does drain the battery a bit quicker. But then I usualy plug it into the laptop when I get to work and so keeping it charged ain't a problem.

The headphone socket on mine has recently gone a bit flakey, Sansa offered to repair\replace but I couldn't be arsed as it mean't sending it back to the Czech Republic and a laccy band around player and jack plug seems to have cured the problem:)

[Canetoad]

I like to download a lot of BBC6 documentary podcasts and use it to listen to them. I also added a 16Gb MicroSD card to mine for plenty of space for music files. They are very good for the size. I even have a car charger for mine so I can use it in the car. :)

[wee tee cee]

I cant be far off the run in period recommended for the 650s , My headamp undoubtedly needed a bit of run in also. They have both came good, the 650s prior to removing the foam filters were a huge disappointment.
I have to eat some humble pie.......
The 650s are just getting better and better......Keepers......I will enjoy the journey with them.
I cant help but think, I disparaged the cans too quickly having not given them a fair chance.
Shooting from the hip....Patience is indeed a virtue.....
Tony.

[Covenant]

I have these ordered:
http://www.head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=115
I have a hankering to try isodynamic headphones as many many moons ago I had a pair of Wharfedale isodynamics but didn't have a good enough source to do them justice.

[bobbasrah]

I cant be far off the run in period recommended for the 650s , My headamp undoubtedly needed a bit of run in also. They have both came good, the 650s prior to removing the foam filters were a huge disappointment.
I have to eat some humble pie.......
The 650s are just getting better and better......Keepers......I will enjoy the journey with them.
I cant help but think, I disparaged the cans too quickly having not given them a fair chance.
Shooting from the hip....Patience is indeed a virtue.....
Tony.

:cool:
That is indeed good news Tony. Although I preferred the Beyers, they should not have disappointed quite so roundly. I guess you are a burn-in convert now.....:D

[wee tee cee]

Aye,
I was reticent that burn in would sonically save the baby from the bath water.....The wean is getting fatter day by day.

[AmpCity]

I have these ordered:
http://www.head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=115
I have a hankering to try isodynamic headphones as many many moons ago I had a pair of Wharfedale isodynamics but didn't have a good enough source to do them justice.


Would be good to grab your thoughts once you've got them - I've got a certain view on these and wondering if others thought the same.

[Covenant]

You have got me worried now! I will have a month to send 'em back if I don't like them.
They are going to be a good few weeks yet as the manufacturers have identified a problem, once they have done the repair they are giving them 200 hours burning in.

[Puffin]

Have you paid for 'em?:eek:

[Covenant]

Yes Rob, pre-ordered them so got a few bob off the list price. I have a really nice headphone amplifier now so need them to see what its capable of.

[Maximum]

I would just like to give a thumbs up for the AKG velour pads on the 668B's. Fitted these and removed the foam guard and I haven't picked up the 325's for a week now.

[wee tee cee]

I have velour pads ordered from thomann....been waiting nearly a month due to problems with other elements of my order. I look forward to comparing them with the standard pleather...I found removing the foams a tad aggressive, maybe try again when the pads are installed.

[Maximum]

I have velour pads ordered from thomann....been waiting nearly a month due to problems with other elements of my order. I look forward to comparing them with the standard pleather...I found removing the foams a tad aggressive, maybe try again when the pads are installed.

I know what you mean about the aggressive thing, like a touch of grain to the sound if that's the right word for it, but the bass seemed to benefit from slightly less flabbiness without them. I didn't bother putting them back when swapping pads and haven't noticed any of the problems with them out, apart from maybe having to be careful with hair ;)

They are much more comfy now.

[Canetoad]

I would just like to give a thumbs up for the AKG velour pads on the 668B's. Fitted these and removed the foam guard and I haven't picked up the 325's for a week now.

I have a set of these on mine too. Highly recommended over standard ones. :)

[MartinT]

Where can one obtain these AKG pads from?

[wee tee cee]

Where can one obtain these AKG pads from?

Martin,
The site is called THOMANN sorry I cant provide a link as my computer skills dont stretch to it. They are about 17 euros, the delivery is about 10 so you might as well add another set of superluxes (660/440/330) just to get some value out the postage charge!!!!!!
Tony.

[MartinT]

Thanks, Tony. Are they the ones for AKG K-240/270/271 or K-141?

[bobbasrah]

Thanks, Tony. Are they the ones for AKG K-240/270/271 or K-141?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?sid=0c70c7eb98e966e1b4dab087190af1 10&xsid=0c70c7eb98e966e1b4dab087190af110&sw=k240&x=0&y=0

Martin, I believe they are the 240 variety from memory, probably mentioned further back in the thread....
I had already marked the site for my daughter...for the same reason

[MartinT]

Got it, thanks Bob.