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Covenant
29-11-2008, 22:13
I was browsing the audiophile section of the Slimdevices forum and came across this modification that someone has done:
(i) LM4562MA op-amp to replace the NJM4558 on the fixed output. It's a £6 drop-in surface mount replacement.

(ii) Changed the power supply caps to some good quality low-ESR types.

(iii) Replaced the switched-mode power supply with a linear one to eliminate the switching noise that I could see on my scope.

Just wonder if Stanley has any comment (or anybody else)

Gazjam
29-11-2008, 22:25
Hi Cov,

I saw that too, on the squeezebox forums I think?

I mentioned that to Stan actually, he said he had tried it, but his upcoming 7510+ (in January) will be much better.

He would say that wouldnt he! lol

Covenant
29-11-2008, 22:47
We had better start saving heh Gaz? :eyebrows:
Perhaps I will ask Santa for just a few CD's so when I order it I can say to the wife-look how little I got for Xmas.

leo
29-11-2008, 23:20
Theres a few of Stans dacs out there now, its about time somebody started a thread in the diy section on some tweaks including the ones Stan recommends;)

Primalsea
30-11-2008, 09:57
I keep reading that many modder's say that they have stuck in more expensive opamps and they sound better than the original cheaper one. While its true that some opamps are better than others I wonder if the rather simplistic rule that more expensive is better actually holds.

In the past I have purchased roller bearings. A large complex bearing was £150 each while a smaller basic bearing was £300. The reason was that the £150 was purchased in huge numbers by a manufacturer so the bearing maker churned them out in huge quantities. The £300 bearing was made in smaller numbers and less often so it cost more.

Surely a similar thing must happen with semicondutors as well??

Covenant
30-11-2008, 10:29
Good point. From what I gather Stanley does extensive listening tests with many people testing and reporting back to him. One persons opinion just isnt enough.
What would be really good would be if Stan operated like NVA so that a full refund was given when trading up to the next model.

Clive
30-11-2008, 11:29
Good point. From what I gather Stanley does extensive listening tests with many people testing and reporting back to him. One persons opinion just isnt enough.
What would be really good would be if Stan operated like NVA so that a full refund was given when trading up to the next model.
Stan's product prices and presumably profit margin's aren't at NVA's level. You shouldn't expect too much in the way of trade-in's on a hundred quid piece of kit.

Gazjam
30-11-2008, 13:51
Good point. From what I gather Stanley does extensive listening tests with many people testing and reporting back to him. One persons opinion just isnt enough.
What would be really good would be if Stan operated like NVA so that a full refund was given when trading up to the next model.

...indeed.
This would encourage MORE Customer loyalty I'd reckon?. Would need to be econically viable for Stan though...depends how much of the older model components he could recycle....

BUT, this raises the "what-if's" of buying a new product and wondering if its got recycled stuff in it.

Oh its so complicated innit?

Covenant
30-11-2008, 14:16
Using NVA as the example again, they sell the returned products on ebay at a significant reduction on new prices, I dont think they re-use parts. I agree that it would be very difficult for Stan to offer the same deal (although no one knows how expensive the 7510+ is going to be) however some kind of trade in deal would help 'oil the wheels' so to speak.
Is the 7510+ a completely new piece of kit Gaz? I seem to remember reading something about a better headphone circuit. If the improvement was confined to that I wouldnt bother changing mine.

Gazjam
30-11-2008, 15:09
Cov,

Chatted to Stan about this, he says the 7510+ is waay better than the current Mk6/4 and would be a worthwhile upgrade.
It will cost less than £200.

I think its a "diffrent" enough product to warrant a new name, as opposed to a a revision, dont know much about it though, anything more would be a guess.

For me, it would need to be £200 worth of improvement..the current Dac sounds great to me already.

No doubt I'll get curious though (as usual) lol. If I buy one thats me with THREE of the Dacs.....gawd.....

leo
30-11-2008, 18:21
I keep reading that many modder's say that they have stuck in more expensive opamps and they sound better than the original cheaper one. While its true that some opamps are better than others I wonder if the rather simplistic rule that more expensive is better actually holds.

In the past I have purchased roller bearings. A large complex bearing was £150 each while a smaller basic bearing was £300. The reason was that the £150 was purchased in huge numbers by a manufacturer so the bearing maker churned them out in huge quantities. The £300 bearing was made in smaller numbers and less often so it cost more.

Surely a similar thing must happen with semicondutors as well??

You need to be sure the op-amp is suitable for the circuit its being used in, although being pin compatible some of the faster higher bandwidth types may be unstable without circuit modifications

Of course some maybe fine , its just one of the things to consider before swapping this stuff:)

SteveW
30-11-2008, 21:59
No doubt I'll get curious though (as usual) lol. If I buy one thats me with THREE of the Dacs.....gawd.....

That'll be two of us. Major problem at he moment with moving the bloody BT home hub (bedroom painting)...which means bad reception for the dacs in the sitting room system and the kitchen, which receive cog and itunes via airport expressi.
Hard wire c5 cable has to be the way ahead.

Steve

trailer
01-12-2008, 09:49
I found that the Maplin PSU made a small improvement. (:drinking: No soldering involved too)

StanleyB
01-12-2008, 10:18
The sonic differences between the MK6/4 and the 710+ may not be large enough in all but the very revealing system, in order to justify waiting for the 7510+. It's main improvements are more aimed at people who want to do opamp rolling, enjoy headphone listening, prefer blue LEDs, and want to use the DAC as a preamp. If none of the above are a priority for you, then the lower cost MK6/4 is a preferred choice.

trailer
01-12-2008, 12:29
Excuse the ignorance, but can you tell me what opamp rolling is?

Marco
01-12-2008, 12:54
I expect it's the same as tube-rolling, only with op-amps ;)

Marco.

trailer
01-12-2008, 13:03
Has that got anything to do with Moroccan tobacco?

Marco
01-12-2008, 13:37
Maybe, depending on what party you're at :eyebrows:

Marco.

Covenant
01-12-2008, 19:26
The sonic differences between the MK6/4 and the 710+ may not be large enough in all but the very revealing system, in order to justify waiting for the 7510+. It's main improvements are more aimed at people who want to do opamp rolling, enjoy headphone listening, prefer blue LEDs, and want to use the DAC as a preamp. If none of the above are a priority for you, then the lower cost MK6/4 is a preferred choice.

Hmmm.....
1. By opamp rolling I take it you mean soldering? (not trying that again!)
2. Headphones not my cup of tea.
3. Not bothered about coloured lights
4. Dac as a preamp is interesting. Does this mean a much better volume control?
Would you say- just to roughly try and picture where it is aimed-that people with sub £1500 systems are unlikely to notice the difference or are we talking Chord, Bryson ?

popol_vuh
01-12-2008, 20:12
The sonic differences between the MK6/4 and the 710+ may not be large enough in all but the very revealing system, in order to justify waiting for the 7510+. It's main improvements are more aimed at people who want to do opamp rolling, enjoy headphone listening, prefer blue LEDs, and want to use the DAC as a preamp. If none of the above are a priority for you, then the lower cost MK6/4 is a preferred choice.

Now that's truly wonderful about the preamp thing. I intend to purchase Beresford for my girlfriend's system and there it will be used as preamp/DAC on active speakers.

Now, i wonder what this preamp thing refers to :smoking:...
whatever it is, i assume it should noticeably affect sound if Beresford is used through variable output.

Covenant
01-12-2008, 20:34
The standard 7510 can already be used as a preamp as there is a variable output as well as a fixed one. :)

StanleyB
01-12-2008, 20:41
Hmmm.....
1. By opamp rolling I take it you mean soldering? (not trying that again!)
2. Headphones not my cup of tea.
3. Not bothered about coloured lights
4. Dac as a preamp is interesting. Does this mean a much better volume control?
Would you say- just to roughly try and picture where it is aimed-that people with sub £1500 systems are unlikely to notice the difference or are we talking Chord, Bryson ?
They are in sockets. The 7510+ could turn you into a headphone addict. Cost of a system is just a number.

popol_vuh
01-12-2008, 22:02
The standard 7510 can already be used as a preamp as there is a variable output as well as a fixed one. :)

Thanks mate, but i know that already :). But judging from all i've read - it's supposedly not so easy to solve the volume regulating thing in a good way. Therefore i was thinking that maybe Stan is going to improve further this aspect of his DAC.

StanleyB
01-12-2008, 22:31
Thanks mate, but i know that already :). But judging from all i've read - it's supposedly not so easy to solve the volume regulating thing in a good way. Therefore i was thinking that maybe Stan is going to improve further this aspect of his DAC.
Just keep the Paypal account topped up;).

popol_vuh
01-12-2008, 23:00
Just keep the Paypal account topped up;).

Thanks for the heads-up Stan :). And you can bet it's going to be so :smoking:

mcgee
02-12-2008, 20:49
They are in sockets. The 7510+ could turn you into a headphone addict. Cost of a system is just a number.
Hi Stan

Could you tell us more about the headphone amp improvement please? I'm getting a nice pair of Audio Technicas at Xmas and was on the look out for a headphone amp, but on hearing this news I'm now wondering whether it's more worth me getting my M6/4 upgraded instead.

Thanks

Ben

muffinman
02-12-2008, 20:54
It's main improvements are more aimed at people who prefer blue LEDs

If only i wasn't one of those people.....life would be so simple :(

popol_vuh
02-12-2008, 21:24
Could it be that Stan is getting a new case for his DAC along with the blue LED? That would explain the price rise all by itself :lolsign:

...and would get him a lot more "audiophile" approval.

StanleyB
02-12-2008, 21:29
Hi Stan

Could you tell us more about the headphone amp improvement please? I'm getting a nice pair of Audio Technicas at Xmas and was on the look out for a headphone amp, but on hearing this news I'm now wondering whether it's more worth me getting my M6/4 upgraded instead.
The TC-7510 and the 7510+ are two completely different designs and at different price points for different pocket depths. You can't turn a TC-7510 into a 7510+.
The 7510+ is in beta testing stage, and no doubt one or more beta testers are bound to give their opinion about the 7510+ in a few weeks time. They are sworn to secrecy at this moment in time. If the TC-7510 is a Giant Killer, then the 7510+ is a Dragon Slayer. People with expensive preamps beware. The 7510+ is a lot more detailed than any of the preamps it has been tested against.

StanleyB
02-12-2008, 21:32
Could it be that Stan is getting a new case for his DAC along with the blue LED? That would explain the price rise all by itself :lolsign:

...and would get him a lot more "audiophile" approval.
It's the same case, but different art work. Printing, fonts, and layout was decided by a select team of AoS members a few months ago.

mcgee
02-12-2008, 21:39
The TC-7510 and the 7510+ are two completely different designs and at different price points for different pocket depths. You can't turn a TC-7510 into a 7510+.
The 7510+ is in beta testing stage, and no doubt one or more beta testers are bound to give their opinion about the 7510+ in a few weeks time. They are sworn to secrecy at this moment in time. If the TC-7510 is a Giant Killer, then the 7510+ is a Dragon Slayer. People with expensive preamps beware. The 7510+ is a lot more detailed than any of the preamps it has been tested against.
Ah I see, that's a shame.

Oh well, I (we) wait in anticipation for more mods to the 7510 in the fullness of time ;) :)

trailer
03-12-2008, 09:06
Wife: "What do you want for Christmas?"

Trailer: "Guess?"

Covenant
03-12-2008, 09:12
No no no Trailer
Wife: What do you want for christmas?
Covenant: Just a CD love, I will probably pick up something cheap in the January sales......

trailer
03-12-2008, 09:17
I tried that last year. All I got WAS a CD.

trailer
24-12-2008, 11:55
A £7.50 granite chopping block from Tescos to sit it on under the rack is worthwhile.

Filterlab
24-12-2008, 12:18
Ahhhh, the old granite chopping block. I think every audiophile has owned at least one at some point. :)

trailer
24-12-2008, 12:23
Yes, but this one is a special audiophile granite from Tesco I'll have you know.

No mention about placement of your kit just a "Do not put in dishwasher" for the instructions.

Primalsea
24-12-2008, 12:36
If you go to a proper tile shop you can buy much larger pieces than the chopping boards and they're not expensive, less than £20 each if you go to the right place.

The chopping boards are actually cut down tiles.

Mike
26-12-2008, 10:19
Ahhhh, the old granite chopping block. I think every audiophile has owned at least one at some point. :)

Indeed!

But no matter what I did with it the cheese sounded exactly the same! :confused:

I must be doing something wrong. :scratch:

Primalsea
26-12-2008, 12:28
I never had you down as a Agadoo man Mike

Mike
26-12-2008, 13:55
Oh no!

Just seeing that word has got the infernal abomination going round my head!

:uhho:

Primalsea
26-12-2008, 14:28
I know what you mean!

AAAAAGAAAAA DOO DOO DOO