Things They Tell You When You're Young

[Pete The Cat]

Back in the early 70s I remember people warning me about a couple of alleged ways in which styli can damage records and vice versa. I was young and impressionable at the time and followed their advice for years, now I’m old and curmudgeonly and use more than one deck I’m thinking it was misinformation.

First was the idea that the stylus shape had to be right, in that the shape you used affected records and gradually impaired them in its own image. The example was being sure to always use a stereo rather than a mono stylus on stereo records because after a while you’d damage their ability to play stereo in future. As I understand it mono styli were spherical whereas stereo styli are mainly elliptical or various other shapes nowadays.

Second was not to play records lent by others who may be less careful than you or who have a worn / differently shaped stylus, since their worn records could damage your stylus and hence the wear would be passed on to your records.

I’ve got back into vinyl over the past year and alongside my old TD104 + AT 110E (elliptical) I now use a Denon 103 (spherical) on my 401. My question is whether the latter shape stylus is somehow going to adversely affect my records which have previously only been played on the former ?

Looking at the number of people here who buy second hand records or play each others’ records seemingly without angst over the previous stylus history I’m thinking that what I heard must've been misinformed and I should just get on with playing the music ? :mental:

Pete

[WOStantonCS100]

A record experiences some wear by, let's say a (EDIT: keyword, "damaged") conical stylus, over the years. Now, you move "up" to an elliptical. These styli will ride lower in the groove than a conical typically would. There are two ways to look at this. One is that you are getting better sound because you're "playing" a part of the groove that hasn't been worn by the conical stylus, thus, theoretically, getting better sound from that part of the previously untouched groove wall. On the other hand, now you're putting wear on that previously untouched part of the groove wall. Where does one go after that's worn out?? But, that's only a catch 22 for the neurotic. Nothing lasts forever. Thankfully, regardless of stylus choice (provided it's not knackered), most records last a really long time if taken care of and a little time is spent in proper setup of the vinyl playback system.

Line contacts (SAS, Shibata, FG's, etc.) are all supposed to ride lower; but, have more vertical contact area. Depending on how a record has previously been warn, I find these types of styli either very good, or sometimes, in very few cases, not good at all. Generally speaking though, that's the type of styli I go for 95% of the time with very good results. Nothing sounds good if it's been used as a dog toy or to wipe one's bum enough times.

I would not play a "had to have it" beat up record with any expensive stylus, regardless of shape nor would I have any reservation about playing a mint condition record with any stylus shape (except for old mono LP's and 78's) provided said stylus was in good nic.

Having said that, there are recommendations on which styli to use for early mono, microgroove's and 78's in order to extract the best sound from them or to overcome previous wear. As such I'm looking into expanding my styli collection as I have a good number of all the aforementioned.

I suppose if someone wants to totally avoid any hint of record wear, there is always the ELP Laser Turntable. But, then, are the op amps up to snuff?

Perhaps, getting on with playing the music is the better option. :)

[MartinT]

Perhaps, getting on with playing the music is the better option. :)

That's the one!

Seriously, the only thing that will truly damage your records is a worn out or broken stylus.

[JJack]

I think the advice about mono carts is good (don't use mono carts on your stereo records, and true mono records sound best with mono carts).

One reason I love my Technics 'table is because it's so easy to switch between my Grado mono cart and my stereo Shure cart. I like the Grado better on "true" mono recordings (newer mono recordings were cut with stereo heads and a stereo cart should be used with those).

As far as record wear the only thing I worry about is deep scratches or a worn-out stylus. LPs are amazingly resilient inventions.

[WOStantonCS100]

I think the advice about mono carts is good (don't use mono carts on your stereo records, and true mono records sound best with mono carts).

One reason I love my Technics 'table is because it's so easy to switch between my Grado mono cart and my stereo Shure cart. I like the Grado better on "true" mono recordings (newer mono recordings were cut with stereo heads and a stereo cart should be used with those).

As far as record wear the only thing I worry about is deep scratches or a worn-out stylus. LPs are amazingly resilient inventions.

Is that JMW arm on your Techy? If so, I'd love to see a picture of that.

Thanks for clarifying the "mono" bit. IIRC, old mono cartridges lack vertical compliance and will damage any pressings that were cut with stereo heads, mono included. Old mono recordings and 78's played with newer profile styli/carts run the risk of "bottoming out" in the groove resulting in excessive noise and possible damage to the stylus tip.

Like you said though, a few simple guidelines and you're good. I have some really old records (50+ years old) that were played (not tucked in a box) and still sound very good if not fantastic.

[JJack]

Is that JMW arm on your Techy? If so, I'd love to see a picture of that.
...

.

I have a VPI table and a Technics. I had two residences at the time I bought my second system; I'm back in one residence but can't part with the Technics. Having that second turntable has enabled me to see how much good sound there is in some of those old mono recordings.

[jazzpiano]

I think excellent comments from Biff and others. Enjoy your music collection. The only thing it reminds me of, and I have quite a few early 50s mono records, is that some of the earliest, pre-RIAA standardization 33 1/3rds, don't sound that wondeful. I remenber being told by a long-time classical record dealer that for some early 10" LPs you should use a conical or spherical stylus and NOT an elliptical/fine-line stylus to get the best sound - Hmm, don't know about this?

Best and Merry Christmas,
Barry

[Pete The Cat]

Thanks for your combined wisdom as ever chaps :)

Pete