View Full Version : What to get- apart from a 1210.
sq225917
15-12-2011, 14:27
So i've sold the SME V and 10 and have money lightly warming the inside of my pocket. What do i buy? Alternative suggestions please, nothing that looks like it would snap in a stiff wind or appears held together by magic.
If I had money burning a turntable-shaped hole in my pocket, I'd at least want to include this on my list:
http://www.trans-fi.com/salvation.htm
Give us a budget to work with, Simon, and what kind of sound you're after :)
Marco.
sq225917
15-12-2011, 23:16
Sorry i should have mentioned, it needs to look like it was professionally manufactured and designed by a 'designer'. Upscale DIY I can make myself ;-)
Marco, anything up to 5k
The two most important things are timing and an even frequency response. I'll take slightly lean over tubby any day of the week.
pure sound
15-12-2011, 23:23
TD124. You know you want to!
WOStantonCS100
15-12-2011, 23:28
Sorry i should have mentioned, it needs to look like it was professionally manufactured and designed by a 'designer'. Upscale DIY I can make myself ;-)
Marco, anything up to 5k
The two most important things are timing and an even frequency response. I'll take slightly lean over tubby any day of the week.
Trans-Fi Salvation
Inspire Monarch
There are others I'd suggest; but, they go far beyond 5k. Are we talking new or used, or both?
sq225917
16-12-2011, 00:46
@Wos...
Did you read the bit about crap looking decks and not being a 1210?
New or used is OK.
Guy the 124 does light my candle but the arm mount arrangement let's it down for me. I should go over and hear Tony's.
WOStantonCS100
16-12-2011, 08:12
...Did you read the bit about crap looking decks...
...must've missed that... 'ere you go... ;)
http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff341/radiotvnut/califone1.jpg
Dingdong
16-12-2011, 08:22
How's about one of those Clearaudio decks. The guy I bought my amps off had one and it did sound and look rather pleasant.
...must've missed that... 'ere you go... ;)
http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff341/radiotvnut/califone1.jpg
Nah, that's as retro cool as fuck! :D
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
16-12-2011, 08:36
@Wos...
Did you read the bit about crap looking decks and not being a 1210?
New or used is OK.
Guy the 124 does light my candle but the arm mount arrangement let's it down for me. I should go over and hear Tony's.
What don't you like about the TD124's arm mounting? Having tinkered a great deal with mine, I find it to be rather convenient in this respect. Accepted wisdom seems to be that the armboard should be plywood, but my experience is that the solid Brazilian Cherry board that I bought from Jim Campbell in the States is way better (looks nice too).
The TD124 is capable of truly stunning sound, but it does need fairly frequent attention and tweakery to keep it quiet(ish). I don't mind that tweakery and won't ever be selling mine!
Interestingly, Tony over at PFM is getting a new Swiss non-magnetic ferrous platter for his TD124 - I shall be keeping a close eye on what he has to write about that.
sq225917
16-12-2011, 08:51
Shuggie, my experience of decks, armboards and being party to Ynwans investigations of armboard materials tells me that contrary to popular opinion wood is the last material to be making an armboard out of. I feel a design should go one of two ways, low mass and high stiffness or high mass highly damped. You either want to absorb any vibration/energy or pass it down the chain as quickly as possible. To my ears wood sits somewhere in the middle and whenever I've heard wooden parts attached to a tonearm it has clouded and muddied the sound.
Other people are perfectly entitled to hold a contrary opinion to that and i'm not really looking to get into a deep discussion of this view, or change anyone's opinion so i'll leave it at that.
I'll probably get in touch with Tony and see if i can pop over some time next week.
Shuggie, my experience of decks, armboards and being party to Ynwans investigations of armboard materials tells me that contrary to popular opinion wood is the last material to be making an armboard out of. {Snip} To my ears wood sits somewhere in the middle and whenever I've heard wooden parts attached to a tonearm it has clouded and muddied the sound.
I thought exactly the same thing as you, Simon, until I recently swapped an aluminium armboard on my Techy for a 'temporary' birch-ply one, until my solid ebony one was being made for my new Ortofon arm, and observed the complete opposite of what you've described.... ;)
Gone from the sound was a slightly hard and 'mechanical' quality, which also served to restrict the rhythmic flow of music and mask fine detail, and in its place was a bigger, bolder sound, full of vim and vigour and a tighter, more tuneful, but no less extended bass. However, cruically music is now decidedly even more interesting to listen to!
I therefore have high hopes for the solid ebony armboard, which will be fitted to my T/T tomorrow.
And so the lesson to be learned?
Never form immovable opinions about anything in audio without taking into consideration as many variables as possible, and the most important thing of all is to always remember that what you hear with any equipment, tweak or whatever, is likely only valid in the particular context in which it was heard, or in your case, the T/Ts and systems where you've observed a detrimental sonic effect with wooden parts or armboards.....
Basically, it pays to retain an open mind and alway be willing to experiment! :)
Marco.
Audioman
16-12-2011, 10:19
I thought exactly the same thing as you, Simon, until I recently swapped an aluminium armboard on my Techy for a 'temporary' birch-ply one, until my solid ebony one was being made for my new Ortofon arm, and observed the complete opposite of what you've described.... ;)
Gone from the sound was a slightly hard and 'mechanical' quality, which also served to restrict the rhythmic flow of music and mask fine detail, and in its place was a bigger, bolder sound, full of vim and vigour and a tighter, more tuneful, but no less extended bass. However, cruically music is now also decidedly more interesting to listen to!
I therefore have high hopes for the solid ebony armboard, which will be fitted to my T/T tomorrow.
And so the lesson to be learned?
Never form immovable opinions about anything in audio without taking into consideration as many variables as possible, and the most important thing of all is always remember that what you hear with any equipment, tweak or whatever, is likely only valid in the particular context in which it was heard, or in your case, the T/Ts and systems where you've observed a detrimental sonic effect with wooden armboards.....
Basically, it pays to always retain an open mind and be willing to experiment! :)
Marco.
Marco.
I think your results are due to introducing some damping and isolation between TT and arm. Nearly all the Technics replacement armboards on the market probably result in an overidged connection. Likely why you have found stiff arms like Rega and SME to sound crap. There is no way to lose energy but straight back into the top plate and then the platter. Looks like you have found a pretty obvious flaw in present mods that nobody seems to have addressed for some reason, so congratulations. A multi layer metal armboard with a sorbothane damping layer may give similar results.
Paul.
Beobloke
16-12-2011, 10:24
Sorry i should have mentioned, it needs to look like it was professionally manufactured and designed by a 'designer'. Upscale DIY I can make myself ;-)
Marco, anything up to 5k
The two most important things are timing and an even frequency response. I'll take slightly lean over tubby any day of the week.
Hmm, sounds to me like your best bet would be the deck you've just sold! Out of interest, what did you not like about it?
Audioman
16-12-2011, 10:41
Simon. Back to TT's around 5K and under. A lot of different presentations and most I have not heard but have had positive reviews.
Michell Orbe.
Acoustic Solid Machine.
Project Xtension.
Dr Freickert Woodpecker.
Clearaudio champion Level 2.
Sheu Laufwerk 1.
VPI Aries 3.
Notts Analogue Dias.
Opera Consonance Droplet.
Fletcher Audio Omega .5.
pure sound
16-12-2011, 10:43
I'd have thought that one of the attractions of a 124 is that it allows for the addition of pretty much any custom built armboard you care to attach to it. You'd be able to get the arm termination exactly as you wanted it after trying as many alternatives as were necessary.
Hi Paul,
I think your results are due to introducing some damping and isolation between TT and arm. Nearly all the Technics relacement armboards on the market probably result in an overidged connection.
You could be right, because on the Techy, in my system, the wooden armboard is better than the aluminium one it replaced.
Likely why you have found stiff arms like Rega and SME to sound crap.
That might be part of it, but I never form conclusive opinions on tonearms, or anything else, without first judging their effect in different contexts other than just in my own system. My comments about SMEs and Regas, therefore, are based on hearing them in a variety of different set-ups.
The reason why, for example, I think that SMEs sound rather bland and uninteresting (unless used with an 'upfront' sounding cartridge) is because, in my opinion, they're over-damped (and I'm far from alone in having that view), and I suspect that the magnesium armtubes used are the biggest culprit.
Stock Rega arms sound flat and tonally grey, IME, because of the piss-poor interal wiring, and the fact that the black paint used dampens the armtube too much. The last Rega tonearm I had (an RB700) became a different animal entirely when it was stripped and polished, like an RB1000 (why do you think that Rega themselves do this? ;)) and rewired with Cardas cable, by Audio Origami.
That done, it was rather good!
There is no way to loose energy but straight back into the top plate and then the platter. Looks like you have found a pretty obvious flaw in present mods that nobody seems to have addressed for some reason, so congratulations.
Cheers! Your theory makes a lot of sense, but I wouldn't have discovered it had I adopted the attitude of 'I know it all, therefore there is nothing more to learn'. As soon as you do that, you're on the fast track to learning-nothing-new-ville and saying a big hello to sonic mediocrity...
Marco.
sq225917
16-12-2011, 11:56
Guy, that is one of the attractions of the 124, that and the rich re-manufacture market. Though I'd really need to hear one with a great, not a wet metal noodle.
Marco, I'm not stating that wood is no good, I haven't tried every potential usage and species. I'm simply stating that i prefer designs that make a positive design choice for one end of the scale or another, it's either an Dias or Rega p9, there's little in the middle ground to interest me and suspended decks have their own issues which do not interest me.
freefallrob
16-12-2011, 12:10
Rega P9 and MC of choice (Apheta?!). Or Ortofon 2M Black?
Edit: DOH, didn't see your post above where you mention P9...
Well Simon, you know my views on the matter (I wouldn't go for any of those mentioned so far), but my choices aren't very financially attractive :).
I think the new Rega 'super' turntable looks and sounds very interesting - I don't know when it is likely toappear though (don't hold your breath, I suspect).
_________________
I won't labour this point, but as armboards are mentioned, birch ply is as unlike ebony as it is possible to get - the ebony actually being far more closely analogous to aluminium than it is to the plywood (they are both woods, but that is where the similarities end). To be frank, I would respectfully suggest that armchair theorising as to the nature and performance of vastly differing materials was best resisted. Speaking from the perspective of my own education and experience, I would say that some of the apparent extrapolated theory is tenuous at best and follows logic of equal validity to; 'fish have silvery shiny skins, therefore anything silvery and shiny must be good at swimming'.
I won't labour this point, but as armboards are mentioned, birch ply is as unlike ebony as it is possible to get - the ebony actually being far more closely analogous to aluminium than it is to the plywood (they are both woods, but that is where the similarities end). To be frank, I would respectfully suggest that armchair theorising as to the nature and performance of vastly differing materials was best resisted.
Indeed. Experimenting with different materials, and then listening to the results yourself, is a far better method of analysing the sonic effect of different armboards, than any theorising, educated or otherwise, will ever be. Quite simply, there is no substitute for practical experience...
It's also worth remembering that whatever results with certain materials is obtained, when experimenting with different armboards in your own system, aren't necessarily likely to apply on a totally different turntable, and in a totally different system, belonging to someone else. Therefore, the forming of any absolutist opinions on the matter is best resisted :)
Marco.
What commercially available turntables would you choose Mark?
sq225917
16-12-2011, 15:18
There is no substitute for practical experience, that would explain, why I have variously tried, mdf, hdf, birch ply, epoxy ply, Aerolam/glass and carbon varieties, aluminium, Teak, Bubinga, Birch blockwood, ironwood, silica/butyl particulate/wood pulp/ epoxy resin and various short strand synthetic plastic fillers- (maybe 100 different mixes of same), thermoplastic carbon fibre plate, unidirectional carbon/nomex laminates, and a whole load of different engineering grades of stainless steel and aluminium.
I'm not exactly new to these considerations having built a half dozen decks over the past twenty years. The thing that showed out through all of this is that I prefer the extremes and not the middle ground.
Hey sq what happened to the Kuzma idea? I notice that Audiofreaks have an ex demo one. Are you not interested in that?
pure sound
16-12-2011, 16:29
There is no substitute for practical experience, that would explain, why I have variously tried, mdf, hdf, birch ply, epoxy ply, Aerolam/glass and carbon varieties, aluminium, Teak, Bubinga, Birch blockwood, ironwood, silica/butyl particulate/wood pulp/ epoxy resin and various short strand synthetic plastic fillers- (maybe 100 different mixes of same), thermoplastic carbon fibre plate, unidirectional carbon/nomex laminates, and a whole load of different engineering grades of stainless steel and aluminium.
I'm not exactly new to these considerations having built a half dozen decks over the past twenty years. The thing that showed out through all of this is that I prefer the extremes and not the middle ground.
It must also depend to some degree on the type of arm chosen, the materials it uses, the bearings it employs, how it is intended to be mounted as well as what kind of subchassis or chassis the turntable has.
Presumably you are trying to provide a firm foundation for the arm but not one which allows vibration in from the tt. Its hard to make a one way filter though. A degree of lossiness is a degree of lossiness whichever way you cut it.
Back on topic, £5K almost takes you into 2nd hand Brinkmann or big(gish) Micro Seiki territory but is that the direction you'd take were cost even less of an object?
Dingdong
16-12-2011, 16:51
You could buy this and have £4k left over for hookers and beer.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garrard-401-Hadcock-Tonearm-Heavy-Aphelion-Plinth-/120828193756?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item1c21ebebdc
It must also depend to some degree on the type of arm chosen, the materials it uses, the bearings it employs, how it is intended to be mounted as well as what kind of subchassis or chassis the turntable has.
Precisely, Guy...
It's good that Simon has obtained so much experience from using different armboard materials, but unless he's conducted his experiments with a multitude of different T/T and tonearm combinations, then the results he's obtained are only valid for the specific permutations he's tried.
Therefore, he certainly isn't really entitled to make sweeping statements, such as he did earlier:
Shuggie, my experience of decks, armboards and being party to Ynwans investigations of armboard materials tells me that contrary to popular opinion wood is the last material to be making an armboard out of.
...without qualifying it by stating which turntables and tonearms were used to conduct his tests, especially when such a statement flies in the face of the superb results others have had with wooden armboards, using T/Ts and tonearms he's probably never even tried! ;)
Marco.
pure sound
16-12-2011, 17:27
I certainly haven't tried as many armboard materials or decks as some but it has been my experience that introducing an armboard made of acrylic or softer, less dense woods/particle boards tends to lead to what I perceive as a loss of hf extension and results in reduced information retrieval.
I look at those materials & think, 'I wouldn't make an arm out of them so why mount an arm in them'. Probably too simplistic an approach!
Of course, YMMV and probably will!
No, I think that in most circumstances you'd probably be right, as indeed would Simon.
However, I suspect that there's something different going on with the 1210 because of the unique way that its constructed, particularly because the armboard sits sandwiched inside a recess within the structure of the T/T, as opposed to flush against a flat top surface, which is the case in most other designs.
I'm not exactly sure why that should make a difference, but it appears to. However, I think that there's something in the theory which Paul put forward earlier:
I think your results are due to introducing some damping and isolation between TT and arm. Nearly all the Technics replacement armboards on the market probably result in an overidged connection. Likely why you have found stiff arms like Rega and SME to sound crap. There is no way to lose energy but straight back into the top plate and then the platter.
Although that idea was criticised by Mark, and I can understand why, it explains what I'm hearing. There is no doubt whatsoever, to my ears, that the current birch ply armboard provides a more symbiotic match, sonically, with the Techy's existing constituent parts, than the aluminium armboard did which it replaced :)
The effect of the solid ebony one being fitted tomorrow, should therefore be rather interesting...... Full report to follow!
Marco.
BlueEyes
16-12-2011, 20:59
Simon, I have a 301, 124 & 224 and the only other turntable that would interest me is an EMT 930.
The Grand Wazoo
16-12-2011, 21:22
Bert,
Please would you carry out a little bit of housekeeping before you go on?
When you joined, you were asked to start a new thread in the Welcome section in order to introduce yourself. Perhaps you could tell us a little about yourself, your system & musical taste.
It's the sure-fire way of getting a warm welcome to AoS.
Cheers
The effect of the solid ebony one being fitted tomorrow, should therefore be rather interesting...... Full report to follow!
That'll be interesting, Marco. My experience with adding a foam gasket to the arm board would seem to corroborate your observations.
Simon - the VPI Scoutmaster with optional rim drive impressed me when I heard one. I think the JMW arm had a lot to do with it, too.
http://www.vpiindustries.com/static.php?page=Rim_Drive
That'll be interesting, Marco. My experience with adding a foam gasket to the arm board would seem to corroborate your observations.
Interesting... Well, if I'm right and the ebony armboard is better still, you've got another upgrade to look forward to! ;)
Getting back on-topic, I also would like to know what Simon didn't like about the Brinkmann. In my opinion, replacing it with a P9 would be a retrograde step.
As for other T/T recommendations up to £5k, I'm biased towards heavily modded Techies and vintage direct-drive broadcast T/Ts (EMT, etc), as the presentation they offer suits my sonic proclivities (although I also love the TD124), but in terms of new T/Ts, I'd look to the designs of Scheu Analog, as anytime I've heard them, I've always been extremely impressed.
How much is the Premier?
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5324/premier1g.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/premier1g.jpg/)
That's the one I've heard, and it blew me away... It was so good, it almost made me forget all about modified 'DJ decks'! :eyebrows:
Marco.
BlueEyes
17-12-2011, 08:56
Bert,
Please would you carry out a little bit of housekeeping before you go on?
When you joined, you were asked to start a new thread in the Welcome section in order to introduce yourself. Perhaps you could tell us a little about yourself, your system & musical taste.
It's the sure-fire way of getting a warm welcome to AoS.
Cheers
Many apologies, Chris, I have been here there and everywhere recently so have been off the Forum. Will do as you suggest asap. Regards, Greg aka Bert.
I don't think sq had a Brinkmann. It was one of those horrid little SME 10.
Yes, he had an SME10 - there is a bit of a monetary abyss between the second hand SME and even the cheapest Brinkmann (which are not very common second hand).
_____________________
How about a DPS turntable...?
http://www.soundscapehifi.com/dps.htm
NAS Dias? Not too bling and well finished I think. Sounds as neutral as the arm and cartridge lets it be and just doesn't appear to get in the way of what's actually there in the vinyl. In other words, mono'd and filtered bass on some cuts is revealed, whereas lush warmth of vintage Decca cuts is relvealed in all their splendor. No obvious dynamic wow either, due to silicon belt and high platter mass and the Wave Mechanic it comes with deals with speed and mains issues as well. Loves Uni-pivot arms and could have been made for London Decca cartridges as my old Mentor was :)
I'm peeing in the wind I know, but the above is a very good turntable, properly engineered where it matters and it's UK made as well!!!!!
I'm not so convinced - though the Dais is my fav of the NA decks. I do know that sq has no interest in using a Decca and doesn't favour the styling of the Dais (though I rather like it) - otherwise, it does fit his requirements.
sq225917
17-12-2011, 23:53
The Notts bearing had a rep for being agricultural at one point, and I've seen pics to back that up. I'm still no closer to a decision. It actually rests on what i do with these EAR509's once they are serviced, revalved and refinished, If I don't keep them then that could be another lump of cash into the pot...
Decisions decisions.
Inspire Eclipse SE v2, Eclipse SE v2 12 with enough left over for a nice arm/cart combo or Inspire Monarch as previously suggested.
Audition all 3 turntables at Inspire's place just a couple junctions South of Sheffield at 29a.
www.inspirehifi.co.uk
sq225917
18-12-2011, 16:54
I'm changing the name of the thread to 'turntables you've seen in a magazine that would be unsuitable for anyone with taste'...
;-)
I'd really struggle with anything from Inspire, the propensity of the 'designer' to borrow patented and trademarked design concepts from other brands leaves me a little cold.
Perhaps we should change the thread's title to "What to get . . . but whatever suggestions you make I shall belittle and ignore them"?
;)
What about the Origin Live Sovereign MKII?
http://www.turntable-kits.com/sovereign-turntable.htm
one of these
http://www.coolgales.com/store/cart.php?target=product&product_id=750&category_id=8
WOStantonCS100
18-12-2011, 19:18
Ouch... since Martin just said what I was think several threads ago... allow me to ask a more diplomatic and sincere question(s).
Simon, are you more concerned with the "design" (ie. looks), functionality or how it will actually sound in your personal listening environment? And, secondly, are you sure what you're looking for even exists? I'm being quite serious, actually. From what I've read so far I'm not at all sure what you're after here. I'm afraid if only your answer will do, there's no point in asking for suggestions.
Dingdong
18-12-2011, 19:23
Buy this and invest the rest of your money in happy pills. You know it makes sense.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STEREO-RECORD-PLAYER-33-45-78-STEEPLETONE-ST918-/180666644494?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item2a1092380e
pure sound
18-12-2011, 19:42
Not quite in the price range but the Spiral Groove ought to tick your boxes & wasn't that derived from the Immedia RPM TT? It may be possible to find one of those.
Otherwise perhaps the Artemis Labs SA-1?
The Notts bearing had a rep for being agricultural at one point, and I've seen pics to back that up.
I wish I could find them, but no joy (I heard the same from a mutual acquaintance)..
The (Tom made) Mentor I had used an excellent inverted bearing, with a shaft in unmarked matte finish and a thick-gooey oil to lubricate it. If current ones (and one in particular?) isn't up to snuff, then NAS should be notified to sort it out methinks..
Mind you, I have no pretentions about this below, which sounds surprisingly good despite its age and humble origins - fitted with AT120E which suits it brilliantly....
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/75d171d8.jpg
This looks like a sturdy one:
http://www.atma-sphere.com/Products/#Atma-208
Lovely - updated Empire 208 with Triplanar arm <dribble>
Oh yes - that one is right up the street of my audio sensibilities! :stalks:
Marco.
sq225917
18-12-2011, 22:50
Wos I'm primarily bothered with how it sounds but looks are An undisputable barrier to entry.
... but looks are An undisputable barrier to entry.
Is that what she told you last night? :eyebrows:
Marco.
How about a DPS turntable...?
http://www.soundscapehifi.com/dps.htm
Surely some mistake Mark. The DPS website is plastered with images of acrylic platters..... Aren't they the devil's work? :)
I'm not saying I want one (I don't). Anyway, I don't have anything against acrylic as a platter, just as a way of supporting the record (which isn't quite the same thing). You could always put a better mat on the DPS (and not use the screw down clamp).
There are some things I quite like about the DPS -there are some things I don't like; I could say much the same about most turntables (unless I don't like anything about them :)).
jandl100
19-12-2011, 08:44
.... Basically, it pays to retain an open mind and always be willing to experiment! :)
Marco.
Aha - Marco spotted the underlying issue way back on page 2 of this thread! :respect:
:eyebrows:
Perhaps we should change the thread's title to "What to get . . . but whatever suggestions you make I shall belittle and ignore them"?
;)
Yup!
I suppose it depends on how much folks care about sound. I wouldn't dismiss an ugly deck if it's sound was perfect for me but that's to do with my priorities (this is the Art of Sound). Luckily I have a couple of decks which look great and sound great.
Audioman
19-12-2011, 11:15
Simon can you give us an idea what you like rather than don't like. I would sympathise with a dislike of the aethetics of Notts Analogue but the others I listed earlier all look pretty impressive at least. I assume you want something better looking and more musicaly engaging than the SME 10.
If you don't like skeletal designs and techies you are limited to Project, Linn or DPS, E.A.T Forte Evo, Dr Freickert, Palmer, Acoustic Solid Wood models, VPI and Well Tempered (there may be others). I assume you prefer belt drive from your previous comments. Do you prefer acrylic or steel platter for any reason ? The only sensible advice is make a short list of those that meet your criteria for looks and find dealers that at least stock a selection even if it means a long trip. Only way to get an idea what you prefer sonicaly.
At least there is a wide choice today unlike 20 years ago when it was Linn, PT or Michell.
(this is the Art of Sound).
Well, that argument, though neat, doesn't work very well - you could just as easily say "this is the Art of Sound".
I've had all of this conversation with sq before, what he really wants either doesn't exist commercially or not for the price he wants to pay.
I do know he has an idea as to what he might get (which, amazingly, nobody has mentioned yet), but if he hasn't said it I won't spoil the fun. It's not easy to pin sq down with regard to what his purchasing criteria are for this deck (I have tried to :)) - I do know that sound quality is paramount, but aesthetic and ease of use issues are contributory factors.
Well, that argument, though neat, doesn't work very well - you could just as easily say "this is the Art of Sound".
Yes Mark but although Marco dabbles in the Art business I don't think anyone seriously thinks this forum is about art and design....
I take your point about aesthetics being a contributory factor as I'm sure they are with most of us. The impression I'm getting with the Simon's balance of priorities is 50/50 sound/aesthetics, maybe even 30/70 as he's prepared to ditch some possibilities purely due to his feelings on aesthetics, which of course is perfectly fine but some clarity on these priorities would help.
sq225917
19-12-2011, 15:08
Likes and reasons why, these aren't likely to be universal rules.
I quite like a wooden deck, though that ends with things like the LP12, DPS, Wilson Benesch ACT1, not some hewn from wood piece of sculpture from the pen of a failed art student. The sculptural exception being the NA Annalog. Despite its incongruous looks the WT is a go as well.
I have zero preference for metal over acrylic in terms of platter material, that said something stamped from a baking tray isn't on the menu. So while a Garrard, or a TD124 could make the grade, an Sp10 or 1210 are unlikely to cut it in stock form.
Quite importantly I'm not looking for a deck to mod, I could just build one from scratch if I was after that. That said a box swap PSU upgrade would be ok. I don't have a preference for plinth vs skeletal, designed well either is perfectly acceptable. I tend to prefer high mass designs over suspended designs.
I'm quite taken by the idea of a 12" arm.
I got shot of the SME10 and V because it was just a little too sterile sounding, one man's neutral is another man's sterile and the SMEv always sounds a little joyless to my ears- despite it's superlative built etc etc.
I'm basically trying to dissuade myself away from the 12" Kuzma Stabi/S combo, but so far I'm not making a good job of it. No rush though as I'm now amp-less for a week or so.
Audioman
19-12-2011, 15:11
I do know he has an idea as to what he might get (which, amazingly, nobody has mentioned yet), but if he hasn't said it I won't spoil the fun.
Ok here's another stab in Simon's declared price range.
TW Acoustic Raven 1.
Nouvelle Platine.
Amazon Model 1.
Acoustic Signature Storm.
Can't think of any more so I must have covered it ! :scratch:
Well he's let the cat out of the bag now.
....he's prepared to ditch some possibilities purely due to his feelings on aesthetics,
He probably had ditched some of those suggested based on how they look; however, I also know he has ditched some of them based on their design and/or engineering content :).
Simon
As you've mentioned a few Classic older models, have you considered a Trio L-07D? Certainly high mass, has the capacity to take a 2nd arm (incl. 12"), and looks - IMO - very contemporary for a 30+ year old design. More to the point, once it's been fully stripped and serviced (incl. PSU upgrades), it is a fantastic turntable. It tells me what's on my records better than anything I've heard (which might be nowhere near as many as you have). Once fully fettled, it requires no modding - I like that. The normal caveat; I'm biased, etc.
Of newer models, I've liked the Simon Yorke and Brinkmann models, both for looks and SQ. Over your budget new, but I've seen a 2nd hand SY for around £5k a year or so ago.
PS. I have an Eclipse SE2/PSU for sale if interested? Or would you rather stick a red hot poker in your eyes? :eyebrows:
pure sound
19-12-2011, 16:40
I have zero preference for metal over acrylic in terms of platter material, that said something stamped from a baking tray isn't on the menu. So while a Garrard, or a TD124 could make the grade, an Sp10 or 1210 are unlikely to cut it in stock form.
Not sure about the 1210 but the SP10 platter certainly isn't 'stamped from a baking tray'! Neither is the chassis.
I would have another look at the 124 platter though. That definitely does have something of the flan case about it!
I'd have suggested Kuzma but you have already been there. What about the Immedia or the Artemis I mentioned earlier?
griffo104
19-12-2011, 17:03
If I couldn't get a Brinkmann 2nd hand I'd look at one of the Ravens instead
http://www.gtaudio.com/analogue.html
Still love these decks. If only I had the money - it would look so nice next to my Orbe.
What about the Evo? ;)
http://www.soundhifi.com/sl1200/evo.html
No upgrade hassle and a great TT.
pure sound
20-12-2011, 13:16
I think the thread title excludes 1200/1210's modified or not. That's fair enough. It is interesting to read what other suggestions there are. It's not as if there's a shortage of 1200/1210 threads here!
sq225917
21-12-2011, 10:37
Right there's a 1210 modded on the bay. I have £500 burning a hole in my pocket, I'm gonna buy it this morning.
snipe away.
Right there's a 1210 modded on the bay. I have £500 burning a hole in my pocket, I'm gonna buy it this morning.
snipe away.
:lolsign:
Any pics of said Techy? :)
Marco.
Right there's a 1210 modded on the bay. I have £500 burning a hole in my pocket, I'm gonna buy it this morning.
Knew you'd get there in the end ;)
Baaaaaaaaa :D
Nah, it's fuss free and so easy to fettle. Those that "know" can sneak away our Lenco's and bodge in secret :gig:
Beobloke
21-12-2011, 12:49
What a complete & Utter waste of £500..
:lol:
That's £100 more than I paid for my SP10!! :rolleyes:
Right there's a 1210 modded on the bay. I have £500 burning a hole in my pocket, I'm gonna buy it this morning.
snipe away.
Have you actually bought it then? I'm speechless!
sq225917
21-12-2011, 12:57
Yeh, I went shopping instead... didn't bother with it.
Rare Bird
21-12-2011, 13:00
:lol: everytime we go shopping up Sheff we always end up in the Lloyds No.1 Bar instead :cool:
What are you like, Simon? The indecision is worse than a bloody woman choosing between three pairs of shoes!! :lol:
Marco.
Wot's wrong with a nice Rega RP3?
Oh alright, I'll get me coat........... :)
sq225917
21-12-2011, 16:58
I was all up for it, then I ended up doing some xmas shopping with the little-un in tow, we were choosing a Tinkerbell dressing gown when the auction ended.
Still I'll be nice in warm in my new dressing gown ;-)
Is there a good cartridge included with it or do you have plans to look for that?
Is there normally a cartridge included with a dressing gown?
Right there's a 1210 modded on the bay. I have £500 burning a hole in my pocket, I'm gonna buy it this morning.
snipe away.
For an extra £100 you could get yourself a real turntable, an Origin Live Aurora Gold :lol: There's one on the bay from Origin Live for £595. BARGAIN!
RobbieGong
21-12-2011, 18:29
For an extra £100 you could get yourself a real turntable, an Origin Live Aurora Gold :lol: There's one on the bay from Origin Live for £595. BARGAIN!
Good shout ! - Love my Techie, and he doesn't want one, so Yes, the Origin Live Aurora Gold looks and sounds like a proper deck apparently, wouldn't mind hearing one in my system against my part modded Techie - Just to see :) !
Is there normally a cartridge included with a dressing gown?
Is that a Supex in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me? :eyebrows:
Marco.
Well, there are cartridges with this gown: :)
http://pearlofvenice.com/red_gown
sq225917
21-12-2011, 19:43
Is that a Supex in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me? :eyebrows:
Marco.
Supex, I should be so lucky, more like a DV Karat ;-)
Good shout ! - Love my Techie, and he doesn't want one, so Yes, the Origin Live Aurora Gold looks and sounds like a proper deck apparently, wouldn't mind hearing one in my system against my part modded Techie - Just to see :) !
I've owned my Aurora gold for the last 6yrs, and it Sounds and Looks fabulous, imo, and is the one item in my system i would not change! LOVE IT!:D
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