View Full Version : The Funk Firm Technics Platter
As a result of Marco and I experimenting with a Funk Firm platter for the Technics SL-12xx series, I decided to order one. We heard sufficient good things using it with his deck and mine on my system that I had to get my hands on one to explore it further.
The platter is a well machined chunk of acrylic, beautifully finished in matt black. It requires the Technics magnet assembly to be bolted on to it, an operation that takes five minutes. I also took the opportunity to adjust the brake pot back to a low setting as the platter is so light compared with the Mike New that it started going backwards when stopped! I use an Achromat on top (we tried placing an LP directly on the platter but the sound was not optimal) and bonded it to the platter with my trademark thin layer of Vaseline(!)
I've hardly been able to get away to the keyboard, such is the impression it is making on me. Let me start by saying that the Mike New platter sets a high standard, so the comments below pertain to what I hear differently from this platter and not the considerably inferior stock item:
Dimension the soundstage is even wider and deeper, considerably detached from the speakers and palpable, such that with some records I feel I could reach out and touch the performers. Singers are more accurately portrayed as real-life size in front of me, rather than a slightly bloated image. Positioning is more stable and everything remains in place even if I turn my head, a good clue to directional cues being well resolved.
Micro detail is very naturally presented within the mix, not demanding attention (which would suggest a treble lift) but alerting me to their presence in a delightful way.
Surface noise is further reduced by a small but welcome amount. In general, system noise and surface noise are so low that I'm simply not distracted by them once the music starts, despite listening at quite high levels.
Midrange emerges from a blackness - just to the dark side of neutral - where the Mike New is just to the bright side of neutral. With my Shelter this gives a magical effect of the music sounding at once vivid but not tonally coloured.
Bass is surprisingly as extended as the Mike New but is tighter and has even more texture such that pitch is easier to hear. My speakers are prodigious in the bass and they are enjoying this dynamic release, not to mention giving me goosebumps on some of my favourite music.
Where the stock Technics could be described as having a dark and murky presentation, the Mike New platter swings it over to the slightly bright side of neutral. I would say that the Funk is close to neutral overall in this respect. Overall, the presentation of my deck as a whole is the most dynamic and exciting I have yet obtained, with a wealth of detail in a very natural and vivid soundstage. It is a deeply compelling thing, this LP reproduction lark.
The Funk platter is not coming off my deck :)
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/Technics Funk Platter.jpg
The Funk platter is available in black or clear from The Funk Firm http://www.thefunkfirm.co.uk/
Interesting thoughts Martin I am just wondering to get the best out of Mikes desigb using the reso matt might even things out more as using the on the Salvation pltter makes ahuge difference and very similar platter approaches
I don't know that one, John. Do you have a link to more info?
Oooh - I like the look of that Martin, especially in the way it 'un-blings' the 1210. Of course the great sound is going to be a bonus. ;)
Rare Bird
09-12-2011, 23:59
Martin:
Just out of semi-intresst whats the black platter?
:lol: Andr'e, it's the subject of this thread!
Oooh - I like the look of that Martin, especially in the way it 'un-blings' the 1210.
It does look rather industrial cool, especially in the flesh.
Rare Bird
10-12-2011, 00:09
O right lol
WOStantonCS100
10-12-2011, 09:08
If I'm reading this review right, it still seems as if the difference between the MN platter and the FF platter are slight and may be negated by other things in the chain (mainly the cartridge / phono pre). Someone with a darker cart/pre setup might prefer the ever so slightly brighter MN platter and someone with a slightly brighter cart/pre setup might benefit from the FF platter. No??? If this is so, it just complicates things, doesn't it, especially for a "cart swapper"? Is it just a matter of which platter one wants to stare at for the rest of his/her life; or, is there a much bigger difference than what I'm gleaning?
Hi Biff,
There is, and I shall explain it later. My observations differ slightly from Martin's, in respect of the brightness factor :)
Looking good, Martin! One thing I think that can be agreed upon is that, aesthetically, the black Funk platter really suits the (black) SL-1210. I think that the clear one would look 'interesting' on an SL-1200.
Marco.
I don't know that one, John. Do you have a link to more info?
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14600
What I suspect you hearing is a bit of bloom and think the Reso Matt might solve the issue but cannot grantee it just what you describing in the differences in the sound
Only problem, John, is that VTA would be wrong in Martin's set-up, with the RESO-MAT, as to work best it needs to go straight onto the platter, and so if he puts it on top of his Achromat, in order to get the VTA right, it won't sound as good.
Unfortunately, with a Techy (because of its 'low' platter, no matter which one is used), you need a 5mm mat in order to get proper flexibility with adjusting VTA.
Marco.
ahh shame did not think of that The matt raise VTA by 5mm
The Grand Wazoo
10-12-2011, 10:32
Not that I'm exactly in the market for any of this stuff, but there's been no mention of cost yet - or did I miss it?
I wonder if you're interpreting my findings correctly, my deck is sounding very fast indeed and with slightly less brightness than before. I've also tried any number of mat/weight/clamp combinations and the Achromat bonded to the platter with the Bruil weight sounds best.
Not that I'm exactly in the market for any of this stuff, but there's been no mention of cost yet - or did I miss it?
It's in the Funk site (linked) - £600.
Looking good, Martin! One thing I think that can be agreed upon is that, aesthetically, the black Funk platter really suits the (black) SL-1210. I think that the clear one would look 'interesting' on an SL-1200.
I actually vacillated between clear and black but clear was out of stock, so black it was. Now that it's on my deck, I'm not disappointed at all - it looks superb.
I'm looking forward to your observations and am not surprised that yours may differ from mine. That's what makes listening to music so fascinating. I'm going back to listening, now :)
If I'm reading this review right, it still seems as if the difference between the MN platter and the FF platter are slight and may be negated by other things in the chain (mainly the cartridge / phono pre).
It's hard to be absolute about such subjective changes, Biff. For me, the Funk platter has given the overall sound a considerable lift - I know this because I went to bed very late last night after listening to record after record and enjoying the presentation so much. For you, it could be different. As I said in my O/P, the Mike New platter is no slouch. You're going to have to find a friendly dealer and try to borrow one to be sure.
Martin what you describes in your improvement in sound sounded very similar to my experience when using a aluminum platter and adding the reso matt so thought if that was the case then it might be a cheaper alternative than a new platter but if you have no VTA adjustment left then there is no point so sorry for the sidetrack
jandl100
10-12-2011, 13:18
When I have heard tt's with an acrylic platter they have had a distinctive sound/colouration that I attributed to the material.
A kind of slight hollow 'boing' reverberation overlaid on everything.
Indeed you can buy aftermarket rubber bands to go around acrylic platters to address this issue.
Has this been addressed in the design? ... or am I talking complete pish?! :eyebrows:
Only problem, John, is that VTA would be wrong in Martin's set-up, with the RESO-MAT, as to work best it needs to go straight onto the platter, and so if he puts it on top of his Achromat, in order to get the VTA right, it won't sound as good.
Marco.
Vic does a 12mm version of the Reso-mat (for the Salvation, but it's available on request) - that might be worth a try here?
When I have heard tt's with an acrylic platter they have had a distinctive sound/colouration that I attributed to the material.
I don't hear anything like that, Jerry, glad to say.
Hi Martin,
I know you have said the platter is not coming off but I would welcome a comparison of my platter against it when it's ready, hopefully before Christmas? Would be interesting to see a plastic bake off as my platter is a form of plastic but obviously not acrylic!
Happy to try it out, David. At least the platter and Achromat can be removed as one as there is no access to lifting bolt holes required. Is there any chance you might be down south any time in the New Year? You might want to come hear the results for yourself.
I have a couple of customers down your way who have ordered technics power supply's off me a while ago (the MK II version) so when I go down to fit them I may pop round to see you and I will bring you some decent power cords to try, the MK II ultimate which is even better than the one's Marco has :)
Hope that is OK?
Wakefield Turntables
10-12-2011, 17:16
Martin,
did you keep your base plate in whilst experimenting with the FF platter ?
Andy
did you keep your base plate in whilst experimenting with the FF platter ?
No - it's bolted and bonded in place. There will be no removing it ever :)
Reid Malenfant
10-12-2011, 17:31
That's a yes then :D
I have a couple of customers down your way who have ordered technics power supply's off me a while ago (the MK II version) so when I go down to fit them I may pop round to see you and I will bring you some decent power cords to try, the MK II ultimate which is even better than the one's Marco has :)
Lol - what's the difference, a solid silver fuse inside instead or something? ;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
10-12-2011, 17:48
No - it's bolted and bonded in place. There will be no removing it ever :)
Yes this is another mod I'm gonna have to do :(
White knuckle ride, Andrew, be warned!
WOStantonCS100
10-12-2011, 20:28
There is, and I shall explain it later. My observations differ slightly from Martin's, in respect of the brightness factor :)
:) Hopefully sooner than later... not to pressure you or anything. ;)
It's hard to be absolute about such subjective changes, Biff. For me, the Funk platter has given the overall sound a considerable lift - I know this because I went to bed very late last night after listening to record after record and enjoying the presentation so much. For you, it could be different. As I said in my O/P, the Mike New platter is no slouch. You're going to have to find a friendly dealer and try to borrow one to be sure.
I think that's what I was after. It really sounds like you're sold on this platter. I'll wait for Marco's remarks, as well; but, you realize this adds a layer of complexity to my platter upgrade decision. :steam: :lol:
chris@panteg
11-12-2011, 11:52
Good review Martin , interesting that it works best with the Achromat ? On my old Voyd any sort of mat made it worse, much worse .
When I have heard tt's with an acrylic platter they have had a distinctive sound/colouration that I attributed to the material.
A kind of slight hollow 'boing' reverberation overlaid on everything.
Indeed you can buy aftermarket rubber bands to go around acrylic platters to address this issue.
Has this been addressed in the design? ... or am I talking complete pish?! :eyebrows:
I have built an acrylic platter in the past (as well as other materials) and also a couple of acrylic mats. I would agree that that acrylic has a distinctive sound/colouration - I wouldn't describe it as you have though.
I don't think you are hearing the acrylic ringing, so there is no need for rubber bands. What you are hearing is the uneven attenuation of some frequencies at the expense of others - hence the preference of another mat to actually contact the record. I've no issue with acrylic as a platter material, and its relatively low mass makes it well suited to the Technics with its servo speed control - I just don't like the sound of it when it is used as a record interface.
I just don't like the sound of it when it is used as a record interface.
Indeed, and neither did I. It sounds really good with the Achromat, which is the best interface for records that I've heard.
Hi Martin. Can I ask were there any issues interfacing the Funk platter and Mike New bearing? I know there shouldn't be an issue but just want to check :)
Hi Martin. Can I ask were there any issues interfacing the Funk platter and Mike New bearing? I know there shouldn't be an issue but just want to check :)
Absolutely none, Russell. Just move the magnet over and it's ready to go.
That's good to hear. I'm getting quite interested in a platter upgrade, this looks like a good 'un. Interested to see what the competition come up with too :)
That's good to hear. I'm getting quite interested in a platter upgrade, this looks like a good 'un. Interested to see what the competition come up with too :)
Indeed!:)
I've just looked at your profile, Russell. Your deck is begging for a platter upgrade. Have you upgraded the bearing yet? If not, that needs to come first.
Where in the SW are you?
You're right I'm sure, I don't mind taking my time though :) Still got the stock internal power supply but I did upgrade to a MN bearing. I've been happily tweaking my phono stage and AD-converter this last year. Platter and PSU seem to be the obvious tweaks for the turntable when I get round to it.
I'm in Bristol btw.
You're right I'm sure, I don't mind taking my time though :) Still got the stock internal power supply but I did upgrade to a MN bearing. I've been happily tweaking my phono stage and AD-converter this last year. Platter and PSU seem to be the obvious tweaks for the turntable when I get round to it.
I'm in Bristol btw.
only 2 months to wait and you can see all the marvellous tech up-grades at the bristol show, looking forward to it myself :)
I'll try and get along to that :)
WOStantonCS100
16-12-2011, 20:39
Ok, Martin, it's been a week. Any "lived in" observations? Have you swapped back to confirm? Is it still in situ? Are you still loving it??
:popcorn:
Any "lived in" observations?
Yes, many of them confirming what I observed above. The thing which is so startling is that the 'sound' of each record is different and the acoustic of the space that the performance was made in (even an artificial studio recording) is pronounced. Rather like the feeling of walking into a large, quiet hall - you sense as well as hear the size of the space.
I am still convinced that the tonal slant remains slightly (and I mean a small amount) to the dark side of the Mike New platter.
Bass is most impressive - at once less boomy, more textured and detailed, and very deep and tight. I was playing Yello's Touch last night and the prodigious output was kept well under control, allowing Heidi Happy to sing beautifully above the fundamentals.
Midrange is incredibly transparent with no tonal colourations that I can detect. Like CD with far more resolution, if that doesn't sound odd. Female voice is simply gorgeous but not rich or syrupy - just natural. Never has Jewel's Barcelona from Spirit sounded better, her voice soaring seemingly without limit. Cat Steven's Tea for the Tillerman album also has some large dynamic swings in his voice, really testing the system in the way that I am only used to from massed choral music. The clarity of delivery of my Usher's beryllium midrange driver has never been more obvious where lesser drivers might be exposed by this new-found transparency.
Treble is very natural, not drawing attention to itself except where some tinkly chimes or a lightly played cymbal becomes apparent for the first time.
Are you still loving it??
I can't get enough of it! Read the above in the context of my whole system, it's not just the new platter but the synergy between all the components, especially the Dynavector arm, Shelter cartridge and Choir Audio SUT.
Marco has been quiet on his findings with the Funk platter, so I'll let him offer his opinion in order to give a fuller picture to you guys :)
Oh, trust me, I'm loving it, too - and how!! Trouble is, there just aren't enough hours in the day at the moment to do everything that's required... :rolleyes:
Still, that's Del and I finished now for Christmas, so things should be less hectic.
There are a couple of reviews that I intend to write; the Funk Techy platter being one, and David Brook's 'Ultimate' mains leads, being another. Both, when written, should hopefully give our members something thought provoking and interesting to read! ;)
Marco.
jandl100
17-12-2011, 06:54
I have built an acrylic platter in the past ..... I just don't like the sound of it when it is used as a record interface.
Fair enough, I don't have an opinion on that as as far as I can recall I never tried a decent mat atop an acrylic platter, as the designers were always (?) in favour of direct contact.
What I will say is that the 'rubber band around the rim' damping rings did seem to work quite nicely in reducing / eliminating the boingngng colourations I heard.
Does the Funk Firm platter require that you also remove the power supply and get an external one like the Mike New platter seems to do?
It may not require an external PSU, Jostein, but more to the point why would you want to? You really need to perform the external PSU upgrade first as otherwise you won't get the best from the platter.
Technically, the Funk platter won't need an external PSU, as its mass is identical to that of the stock Techy platter. However, like Martin says, in terms of the optimal order of modifying the Techy, adding a quality external PSU comes first! ;)
Incidentally, as promised, I will be reviewing the Funk Firm platter in detail (and a few other things I've pencilled in) ASAP. I had intended to this at the end of last year, but a family bereavement put paid to that. However, the Funk Firm platter is so special that I simply cannot omit acknowledging how fundamentally it transforms the Techy into a world-class music reproduction machine.
Marco.
It may not require an external PSU, Jostein, but more to the point why would you want to? You really need to perform the external PSU upgrade first as otherwise you won't get the best from the platter.
Does the PSU upgrade involve a bit of work? Have not really checked out that. :)
Does the PSU upgrade involve a bit of work? Have not really checked out that. :)
Yes, it's a little work but not too difficult. Essentially, it involves:
1. Remove the internal transformer and power supply PCB
2. Install a power cable with a solder connection to the PCB and a solder tag to the earth post
3. Add the external PSU of your choice.
Much more info and steps here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8118
Yes, it's a little work but not too difficult. Essentially, it involves:
1. Remove the internal transformer and power supply PCB
2. Install a power cable with a solder connection to the PCB and a solder tag to the earth post
3. Add the external PSU of your choice.
Much more info and steps here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8118
Thanks for the link, I will check out the details in this.
Just a quick one before I go for a coffee and left over xmas cake and cheese, the existing power supply does not need to be removed to fit an external power supply, as long as it is dis-connected, so do not worry, I have plenty of customers who could not or did not want to take the existing PSU out and use an external one and it works very well indeed.
My new PSU which is now ready is designed for either with or without the existing PSU in place, not everyone feels able to remove the old one and to be fair is it really neccessary as sound quality does not seem to suffer leaving it in place on all the decks I have heard with it still in place and an external one in use, plus if you ever decide to sell the tech on you don't have to mess about putting the old PSU back in do you?
The best of both worlds, hope that helps someone.
Spectral Morn
02-01-2012, 21:58
Just a quick one before I go for a coffee and left over xmas cake and cheese, the existing power supply does not need to be removed to fit an external power supply, as long as it is dis-connected, so do not worry, I have plenty of customers who could not or did not want to take the existing PSU out and use an external one and it works very well indeed.
My new PSU which is now ready is designed for either with or without the existing PSU in place, not everyone feels able to remove the old one and to be fair is it really neccessary as sound quality does not seem to suffer leaving it in place on all the decks I have heard with it still in place and an external one in use, plus if you ever decide to sell the tech on you don't have to mess about putting the old PSU back in do you?
The best of both worlds, hope that helps someone.
Hi David a number of people, including myself, have heard an improvement in sound quality by removing the old transformer. If you were using a metal platter mat, Oyaide or copper one the effect might be less but using the Funk Mat/platter or other non metal mat on the standard platter would, I feel, allow the old transformer to affect the sound, if left in place.
Regards D S D L
Reid Malenfant
02-01-2012, 22:05
Hi David a number of people, including myself, have heard an improvement in sound quality by removing the old transformer. If you were using a metal platter mat, Oyaide or copper one the effect might be less but using the Funk Mat/platter or other non metal mat on the standard platter would, I feel, allow the old transformer to affect the sound, if left in place.
Regards D S D L
Even if the transformer is no longer in use & bypassed? IE an external supply fitted :)
Just asking.
Spectral Morn
02-01-2012, 22:10
Even if the transformer is no longer in use & bypassed? IE an external supply fitted :)
Just asking.
Yes Mark, that is indeed the case.
I think that if one is using a metal platter mat, then that shields the cart from the transformers effect but if you are not then leaving it in has a subtle effects on the cartridge. Its not a massive one but enough of one I feel to warrant removing it from inside the deck.
Regards D S D L
Reid Malenfant
02-01-2012, 22:14
Interesting, cheers Neil :)
Spectral Morn
02-01-2012, 22:26
Interesting, cheers Neil :)
It may also be cart dependent too.
Years ago I fitted a Grado cart to a mk1 Avid Diva and placing the motor where it was supposed to go resulted in a hum. Even switching the motor off resulted in a slight hum if you tuned the volume up full. Moving the motor to another possible position under the deck cured this but the very presence of the motor was an issue with the Grado's.
I asked Conrad at the time as to why the motor was not shielded in some way and I never got a satisfactory answer, cost I guess + most carts are not effected. Here's the question though even if you can't hear an effect in an obvious way like pick up of hum/noise is the cart still effected but at a very low level and my gut feeling is yes, it is. I think this is the case with leaving the transformer in place; so even if there is no obvious issue there may well be a very low level one.
As the transformer is no longer needed I would whip it out and put it away safely.
Regards D S D L
Reid Malenfant
02-01-2012, 22:33
So effectively it's like some kind of antenna, I think I can go with this as it is a massive coil of wire with a response peaking at low frequencies due to it's inductance (which will be high).
If I run any of my oscilloscopes with no input I tend to see a massacred 50Hz waveform from free air, makes me think you are probably quite right ;)
I too would always remove the transformer.
+1, although I appreciate why David posted what he did.
For some, the convenience of adding a quality off-board PSU, without having to remove the stock internal one, will outweigh the (arguably small) sonic benefits achieved by the latter :)
Marco.
Though it does pose the question as to how far away the unconnected transformer would have to be moved from the turntable to cease having a effect :-).
What effect would removing the mass of the transformer have on the damping (mechanical) of the plinth, and would it alter the levelling of the turntable? I don;t know=, just asking.
Hi Neil,
Hi David a number of people, including myself, have heard an improvement in sound quality by removing the old transformer. If you were using a metal platter mat, Oyaide or copper one the effect might be less but using the Funk Mat/platter or other non metal mat on the standard platter would, I feel, allow the old transformer to affect the sound, if left in place.
As an aside, unless I've missed it written on your website somewhere, I never did get to read your thoughts on the modified Techies you've now had extensive experience of using. It must be well over a year now that you've been playing with them, so you must've formed a reasonably conclusive opinion on them?
I.E, what are your thoughts on the subject of how modded Techies fair in comparison to 'proper' audiophile T/Ts of a similar price, and crucially, how in your opinion have they compared with established 'hi-end' T/Ts in your collection, such as the SME20, or other such designs you've reviewed?
I'm sure that your thoughts on the matter would be the subject of much interest... Even if they aren't yet conclusive, a snapshot of your views so far would be appreciated :cool:
Marco.
Hi Nick,
Though it does pose the question as to how far away the unconnected transformer would have to be moved from the turntable to cease having a effect :-).
Indeed, and that's why sufficiently long DC leads are supplied with most off-board PSUs, such as the one you fitted to my Paul Hynes unit... Consequently, my SR7EHD is about 2m away from the T/T! ;)
What effect would removing the mass of the transformer have on the damping (mechanical) of the plinth, and would it alter the levelling of the turntable? I don't know, just asking.
It's a no on the levelling of the T/T, as this can easily be achieved without the stock transformer in place. As for damping of the plinth, although I haven't tested it objectively (I doubt anyone has), subjectively I can detect no adverse effect in that area, once the transformer has been removed.
I've found that the most influential things to attend to in that area (and in turn isolate the T/T most from the effects of feedback) is swapping the dreadful stock feet, for something like Isonoes, fitting a super-thick solid ebony armboard (the common aluminium ones are not as good in that respect) for use with your tonearm of choice, and swapping the (equally dreadful as the stock feet) stock platter for a Funk Firm one, which is as near to acoustically dead as possible.
Doing all of that goes some way to fundamentally fixing what holds the SL-1200/1200 back from being a genuinely top-class T/T :)
Marco.
One trick to use in determining a deck's isolation characteristics is to rest the stylus on a stationary record and (very) gently tap around the support shelf and the turntable itself while listening through the system. Quite educational.
Indeed, and it's a notorious issue for many direct-drive T/Ts, where one can sometimes 'play the drums' on the plinth....
In terms of education, I recommend you revisit that test after your new ebony armboard has been fitted and report the outcome ;)
Marco.
+1, although I appreciate why David posted what he did.
For some, the convenience of adding a quality off-board PSU, without having to remove the stock internal one, will outweigh the (arguably small) sonic benefits achieved by the latter :)
Marco.
My point exactly :)
Don't forget we are in a very, very small minority, people who are reading our posts and are thinking off going down the modding route don't want to be put off by facing what they may consider the daunting task of removing the PSU etc, etc. I personally think leaving it in does not alter the sound one bit, others may dis-agree, I just wanted to point out that my new PSU works with tech PSU in or removed so gives the customer both options.
Thanks.
To be clear: even if the PSU is left in place it must be disconnected before an external PSU is connected to the main PCB. So must the off-board regulator transistor. Frankly, after doing the above, removing the old gubbins is easy!
It may be easier for technophobes like you dude but not everyone is a DIY expert!
Yes of course remove the wires connecting the existing PSU.
All suppliers of PSU's should provide clear installation instructions as standard one would hope.
Spectral Morn
03-01-2012, 12:24
Hi Neil,
As an aside, unless I've missed it written on your website somewhere, I never did get to read your thoughts on the modified Techies you've now had extensive experience of using. It must be well over a year now that you've been playing with them, so you must've formed a reasonably conclusive opinion on them?
I.E, what are your thoughts on the subject of how modded Techies fair in comparison to 'proper' audiophile T/Ts of a similar price, and crucially, how in your opinion have they compared with established 'hi-end' T/Ts in your collection, such as the SME20, or other such designs you've reviewed?
I'm sure that your thoughts on the matter would be the subject of much interest... Even if they aren't yet conclusive, a snapshot of your views so far would be appreciated :cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco
Yes quite correct and the actual beginnings of the related reviews are due soon. One or two (manufacturer/distributor supplied items, they come first) reviews to finish and a few to start but I plan to begin the Technics ones hopefully by Feb, if life does not get in the way again. By begin I mean write up my thoughts so far.
I plan to do platter mats first, then power supplies, isolation, arms (I have a few here) I can and have been using.
One interesting thing I will share is the Oyaide mat sounds best in my experience with a thin rubber mat under it, rather than sitting directly on the standard platter.
I have so far not been able to get my hands on a Oyaide BR One, but I have been playing around with a thin rubber one, which may be similar to it. Oyaide recommend using such themselves and to my ear this combination works very well. I have also tried this with a Mike New platter and so far the rubber mat + Oyaide gives the best sound over any other combination I have tried to date and I have gathered up quite a few over the last 6 months or so. However like all things the devil is in the detail and I will save a fuller expansion of that to the virtual pages of AIHFA.
Regards D S D L
Hi Marco
Yes quite correct and the actual beginnings of the related reviews are due soon. One or two reviews to finish and a few to start but I plan to begin the Technics ones hopefully by Feb, if life does not get in the way again. By begin I mean write up my thoughts so far.
I plan to do platter mats first, then power supplies, isolation, arms (I have a few here) I can and have been using.
One interesting thing I will share is the Oyaide mat sounds best in my experience with a thin rubber mat under it, rather than sitting directly on the standard platter.
I have so far not been able to get my hands on a Oyaide BR One, but I have been playing around with a thin rubber one, which may be similar to it. Oyaide recommend using such themselves and to my ear this combination works very well. I have also tried this with a Mike New platter and so far the rubber mat + Oyaide gives the best sound over any other combination I have tried to date and I have gathered up quite a few over the last 6 months or so. However like all things the devil is in the detail and I will save a fuller expansion of that to the virtual pages of AIHFA.
Regards D S D L
I am so glad you agree about the thin rubber mat as I could not post to say it's brilliant until someone agreed with me for obvious reasons! I gave a few away to my existing Oyaide mat owners and they all agreed (both of them :lol:)
Thanks for the feedback, the Oyaide thin rubber mat costs £35, mine costs £10, luckily I have worked in rubber and plastics for 20 years so did not need to search for a suitable material for long!
Was wondering when you would be reviewing the blue horizon mat I gave you IN SEPTEMBER.:lol:
The Grand Wazoo
03-01-2012, 12:30
..............luckily I have worked in rubber and plastics for 20 years
Jeez, you must sweat a lot!
Nice one, Neil - I look forward to reading your forthcoming reviews :)
Until then, could you describe roughly how you think an extensively modded Techy, fitted with a top-notch arm, cartridge, and one of the better off-board PSUs, compares to your SME20?
No need to go into lots of detail - simply offer us a snaphot of what you've heard so far.
Marco.
Spectral Morn
03-01-2012, 12:59
Nice one, Neil - I look forward to reading your forthcoming reviews :)
Until then, could you describe roughly how you think an extensively modded Techy, fitted with a top-notch arm, cartridge, and one of the better off-board PSUs, compares to your SME20?
No need to go into lots of detail - simply offer us a snaphot of what you've heard so far.
Marco.
Ahhh the punch line Marco.
Whole point of the reviews relating to the Technics is to establish not only what works with what and to test the current wisdom, but also to compare a fully modded Technics against a full production deck or two.
I am sorry my friend but you will have to wait for that information as I have in all honesty not got that far, having so far spent a fair bit of time working on the former points before getting to the latter one. I have a lot less time these days to work on everything I have sitting looking done (Hi Mr Brooks that means the BH too, though I have played with it on the Technics but I am not in a position to say much more than that at the moment.)
To be honest late last year I was seriously thinking of winding AIHFA up as I have found it increasingly hard to find the time (and I put lots into the reviews I do) + with only Barry now contributing regularly (thank you very much) as life issues have been eating into my free time in a major way; I have less free time to put into things as on average I spend three months with an item before writing about it. Of course some things can be written about more quickly but I don't write quick reviews as a rule and I would rather live with an item for awhile, before doing so.
However having put so much into AIHFA, to walk away now, would have been something I would have regretted for the rest of my life so I am sticking with it but the reviews will happen as and when I can do them and the items supplied to me will be reviewed in the order I get them and that means David the BH is due soon; either as a stand alone or as part of the Technics review.
Watch that space, as they say.
Regards D S D L
It may be easier for technophobes like you dude but not everyone is a DIY expert!
You meant, of course, technophile :)
Spectral Morn
03-01-2012, 13:13
I am so glad you agree about the thin rubber mat as I could not post to say it's brilliant until someone agreed with me for obvious reasons! I gave a few away to my existing Oyaide mat owners and they all agreed (both of them :lol:)
Thanks for the feedback, the Oyaide thin rubber mat costs £35, mine costs £10, luckily I have worked in rubber and plastics for 20 years so did not need to search for a suitable material for long!
Was wondering when you would be reviewing the blue horizon mat I gave you IN SEPTEMBER.:lol:
I guess with Oyaide recommending its use under it you would think it a no brainer but trying it out is always the proof of the pudding.
Placing metal on metal no matter how well finished off and level would I guess always leave room for slight movement and the thin rubber layer will remove that issue + damping the metal interfaces.
In fairness to Oyaide though that £35 gets you the mat and a speed strobe disc. Its a bit weird that Black Rhodium don't seem to know about it. I have asked a couple of times..... oh well.
Ahhhh David you have let the cat out of the bag..... Marco has his dresses and you have your rubber :eyebrows: If we keep this up AOS will morph into a Fetish site :lol: .... though I guess with manys love of 1200/1210s, valve etc it already is one of sorts......
Regards D S D L
Lol.... I've seen some of the naughty things hanging up on David's washing line! :eek: :flasher:
:eyebrows: :eyebrows:
Regarding the other thing, no worries. As long as when you write the review, you mention at some point how an extensively modded Techy compares with an established 'hi-end' T/T, such as an SME 20.
Not many people own both and so are in a position to compare them directly in a system that they know inside out, and so such information deserves to be documented somewhere on the web, if for no reason other than giving the 'badge-fi' crew and industry snobs some food for thought...
So when the time comes, don't hold back and tell it EXACTLY as you hear it, without any fear of upsetting the 'establishment'. I don't want to be counting the splinters on your arse afterwards!! ;)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
03-01-2012, 13:32
Lol... I've seen some of the naughty things hanging up on David's washing line! :eek: :flasher:
:eyebrows: :eyebrows:
Regarding the other thing, no worries. As long as when you write the review, you mention at some point how an extensively modded Techy compares with an established 'hi-end' T/T, such as an SME 20.
Not many people own both and so are in a position to compare them directly in a system that they know inside out, and so such information deserves to be documented somewhere on the web, if for no reason other than giving the 'badge-fi' crew and industry snobs some food for thought...
So when the time comes, don't hold back and tell it EXACTLY as you hear it, without any fear of upsetting the 'establishment'. I don't want to be counting the splinters on your arse afterwards!! ;)
Marco.
and I reckon yours would be very interesting too Marco :scratch: :eek: :eyebrows: :lol::lol:
Yes I will Marco. One of the whole reasons for starting the Technics project was to test and find out what all you guys have been enthusing about and I have been as you pointed out doing so for nearly the last year, and an interesting journey it has been, though I am not quite at the end yet but its not too far of now....
Regards D S D L
Excellent. Btw, to nail it properly, you'll have to listen to your Techy with a better PSU than an SR3, and I don't mean one of Cawley's 'HE' efforts! ;)
You need to hear it with David/Nick's PSU, or an SR7EHD. A Funk Firm platter wouldn't go amiss either....
Marco.
Excellent. Btw, to nail it properly, you'll have to listen to your Techy with a better PSU than an SR3, and I don't mean one of Cawley's 'HE' efforts! ;)
You need to hear it with David/Nick's PSU, or an SR7EHD. A Funk Firm platter wouldn't go amiss either....
Marco.
Well its ready now Neil so I will gladly send you one for a play! If you wait a few more days a platter too, how about that then?
My PSU is a "real world" effort, in other words it starts at a reasonable price so customers can hear the improvement over the stock PSU immediately and when funds allow or if required at purchase various up-grades can be accommodated.
Paul Hynes
03-01-2012, 16:44
Neil,
If you would like to try an SR7EHD on your Techy I would be able to send you one in February.
Regards
Paul
Nice one, Paul. Neil can send the SR3 I loaned him back to you at the same time :)
Marco.
Artifolk
03-01-2012, 18:22
This looks very interesting, High End Vs Techy, I'll be watching this very closely :stalks:
Spectral Morn
03-01-2012, 19:10
Hi David and Paul
Yes very keen to try those Paul and David to make the review as complete as possible. However I need a few weeks to get a few outstanding reviews out of the way and published. Timing great for Paul's offer and is that ok with you David?
Unless Arthur would be prepared to loan me a platter Marco I doubt that reviewing it will be possible as I have spent about as much money as I can on this at the minute.
Oh yes and to be fair to everyone if a Timestep HE is offered for me to include in the review, then I am more than happy to do that in the interests of making this as complete a review as possible
Regards D S D L
in the interests of making this as complete a review as possible
As an impartial observer/potential purchaser (one day, maybe!) and knowing your fairness and "no nonsense" reviewing style, a full review of all the options would be fabulous Neil, and essential reading for anyone thinking of treading the Techie path. :thumbsup:
Dingdong
03-01-2012, 21:37
I am so glad you agree about the thin rubber mat as I could not post to say it's brilliant until someone agreed with me for obvious reasons! I gave a few away to my existing Oyaide mat owners and they all agreed (both of them :lol:)
Thanks for the feedback, the Oyaide thin rubber mat costs £35, mine costs £10, luckily I have worked in rubber and plastics for 20 years so did not need to search for a suitable material for long!
Was wondering when you would be reviewing the blue horizon mat I gave you IN SEPTEMBER.:lol:
Do you have some details of your thin rubber mat. I'd be interested in trying it under my Blue Horizon on the SP-10.
Wakefield Turntables
03-01-2012, 21:44
Hi David and Paul
Yes very keen to try those Paul and David to make the review as complete as possible. However I need a few weeks to get a few outstanding reviews out of the way and published. Timing great for Paul's offer and is that ok with you David?
Unless Arthur would be prepared to loan me a platter Marco I doubt that reviewing it will be possible as I have spent about as much money as I can on this at the minute.
Oh yes and to be fair to everyone if a Timestep HE is offered for me to include in the review, then I am more than happy to do that in the interests of making this as complete a review as possible
Regards D S D L
if you hold your horses i'm more than happy to lend you mine. I'll be selling it when I get my new power supply from Paul H. Tell me what you think?
Spectral Morn
04-01-2012, 17:46
if you hold your horses i'm more than happy to lend you mine. I'll be selling it when I get my new power supply from Paul H. Tell me what you think?
Thank you for the offer Andrew.
Regards D S D L
I am so glad you agree about the thin rubber mat as I could not post to say it's brilliant until someone agreed with me for obvious reasons! I gave a few away to my existing Oyaide mat owners and they all agreed (both of them :lol:)
Thanks for the feedback, the Oyaide thin rubber mat costs £35, mine costs £10, luckily I have worked in rubber and plastics for 20 years so did not need to search for a suitable material for long!
Was wondering when you would be reviewing the blue horizon mat I gave you IN SEPTEMBER.:lol:
oh l am out of the loop:ner:
andy
at least you got a discount on your oyaide rubber mat !
andy
at least you got a discount on your oyaide rubber mat !
Speaking of discount david can i ask how much your plastic platter is set to be as I cannot accept £600 for one?
Speaking of discount david can i ask how much your plastic platter is set to be as I cannot accept £600 for one?
I have produced 2 versions as I am a realist and understand some people do not want to spend £700 on a power supply or £600 on a platter, one version is made from polyacetal with no added parts and the other one is the same base material but with brass inserts for extra mass.
I expect both to be well under the price of other platters. :)
That's excellent news, as choice is always good! :)
It now means that people, who aren't willing or able to buy an MN or Funk platter, will be able to hear the benefits of upgrading from the (rather nasty) stock platter, which is all good news for people going down the modded Techy route and giving the whole process more exposure :clap:
Marco.
I have produced 2 versions as I am a realist and understand some people do not want to spend £700 on a power supply or £600 on a platter, one version is made from polyacetal with no added parts and the other one is the same base material but with brass inserts for extra mass.
I expect both to be well under the price of other platters. :)
Piccies!:)
chris@panteg
19-01-2012, 11:03
That's excellent news, as choice is always good! :)
It now means that people, who aren't willing or able to buy an MN or Funk platter, will be able to hear the benefits of upgrading from the (rather nasty) stock platter, which is all good news for people going down the modded Techy route and giving the whole process more exposure :clap:
Marco.
I wish you wouldn't say that Marco as i don't agree ! Its a serious bit of engineering and a lot of effort went into the design of the platter , yes it rings but it can be fixed with the vantage mod which is still the cheapest option out there ! Even the Oyaide , maybe the Funk and MN platters are fantastic upgrades but also a hell of a lot of money !
I actually feel you don't need to spend quite so much to get the best out of the 1200 series , this is debatable and i could be wrong but one thing i am certain of is that there are folks who don't like the SL1200 and never will ! No matter what money you throw at it , bit like the LP12 and Marmite yum yum :)
sq225917
19-01-2012, 11:26
burn him.....
Hi Chris,
No worries, mate. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is rather different.
IMO, the stock platter is merely 'adequate for purpose', and no more. The Oyaide mat and record weight, however, transform it, albeit at some cost.
Aside from anything else, the sonic signature of the stock platter is not something you could live with, once you've identified it after hearing something better, which makes it a fatally flawed item for anyone with serious notions of turning the Techy into a genuine high-end T/T.
As for the Vantage mods, I'm sure that they're similarly effective, but let's face it, if the stock platter were indeed "a serious bit of engineering", those modifications wouldn't have such a dramatic effect, would they? ;)
For me, the ONLY really serious bit of engineering on the Techy (in its stock form) is the superb quality motor unit, which is now at last being given the recognition it deserves, by for example its use as the base of the new Inspire Monarch T/T.
Marco.
For me, the ONLY really serious bit of engineering on the Techy (in its stock form) is the superb quality motor unit, which is now at last being given the recognition it deserves, by for example its use as the base of the new Inspire Monarch T/T.
I would add to that the three-part sandwich plinth, which I think is excellently engineered and much underrated.
chris@panteg
19-01-2012, 12:46
Hi Chris,
No worries, mate. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is rather different.
IMO, the stock platter is merely 'adequate for purpose', and no more. The Oyaide mat and record weight, however, transform it, albeit at some cost.
Aside from anything else, the sonic signature of the stock platter is not something you could live with, once you've identified it after hearing something better, which makes it a fatally flawed item for anyone with serious notions of turning the Techy into a genuine high-end T/T.
As for the Vantage mods, I'm sure that they're similarly effective, but let's face it, if the stock platter were indeed "a serious bit of engineering", those modifications wouldn't have such a dramatic effect, would they? ;)
For me, the ONLY really serious bit of engineering on the Techy (in its stock form) is the superb quality motor unit, which is now at last being given the recognition it deserves, by for example its use as the base of the new Inspire Monarch T/T.
Marco.
Hi Marco
With respect it was a serious bit of engineering back in 1978 , Panasonic could have made it better but it was never intended to be , just a good solid semi pro deck .
Oh and i have heard the Funk platter at Whittlebury , very good but I must reserve judgment as it was with a TS bearing and psu of which i am no longer a fan :)
chris@panteg
19-01-2012, 12:47
I would add to that the three-part sandwich plinth, which I think is excellently engineered and much underrated.
I think so too Martin , in fact quite a lot of the original design has my respect :)
One day, someone with some respect and money on here, is going to buy an SP10 and do serious upgrades to it. I still think it's the better deck potentially and ripe for further refinement :)
We'll just have to agree to disagree about the platter, Chris :)
Now this is when Panasonic made decent platters for the Techy (when it was originally an out-and-out 'audiophile' T/T). Note also the rather different stock tonearm:
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2332/technicssl1100.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/technicssl1100.jpg/)
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4236/sl110decca3kl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/sl110decca3kl4.jpg/)
Compare that platter to the pish (in comparison) which was supplied later with SL-1200/1210s... Observe the lovely wooden armboard, as standard, too! ;)
Agreed about the plinth, although I suspect that this could also be bettered, which is why it's one of the areas Inspire have targeted with the Monarch.
Marco.
It still rings Marco, but at least it's a fairly simple casting as the motor is fully enclosed :)
Yup, but the platter used on the SL-120 is still a rather more substantial affair than what was used later on the SL-1200.
If you examine the colour picture (above) of the SL-120 and compare it to a modern SL-1200, lack of Quartz controlled motor aside, it's not difficult to see exactly where the cost cutting took place when the latter was later adapted for DJ use!
Marco.
RobbieGong
19-01-2012, 13:08
Yep, The sonic signature of the stock platter becomes apparent as you go along the upgrade path for sure, as it is the one thing that wont go until ?!!?... I think (but not certain) that it contributes to the slightly shouty presentation the otherwise great Techie can have. I've upgraded the feet (Isonoes) added the KAB Fluid damper to help with any arm related resonances and have a damn good cart on board. With all these mods combined my MK5g has transformed and draws great levels of detail and a nice sense of realism from the vinyl. That said the one thing that remains is likely the platters 'signature', hence I'd love to try the Funk or any platter for that matter that is deemed to 'definately' get rid of this shouty signature. (I'm not convinced that the arm in my system is a big contributory factor to the shoutiness as there is just too much detail that the arm is allowing the cart to protray - well that's my theory :eyebrows: lol). Anyway, a genuine 'upgrade' platter that doesn't cost the sort of money that everyday folk like myself just dont have readily available (Priorities = Mortgage, Wife kids, bills bills bills...) will sell by the cart load amongst us Techie audio nuts :)
You're completely correct, Robert. It's precisely that "shouty", unrefined, sonic signature you describe (of the stock platter) which so badly infects the sound of a standard SL-1200 or 1210.
Unfortunately, the stock tonearm is similarly afflicted, although not to such a noticeable extent, if one sticks to using MM, or (budget) high-output MC cartridges.
Marco.
Of all the changes youve made Marco, which one would you say had the most dramatic impact. The one change which made you realize the Techy was good but just got a whole lot better?
Dominic Harper
19-01-2012, 14:14
One day, someone with some respect and money on here, is going to buy an SP10 and do serious upgrades to it. I still think it's the better deck potentially and ripe for further refinement :)
Would this count?
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af30/hifimaster/slate%20sp10/DSCF3416.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af30/hifimaster/slate%20sp10/DSCF3417.jpg
Hi Dom,
Yes, in terms of fitting a top-notch plinth...
But if you've done nothing to address the 40-year old electronics inside (much of which, especially in 'knackered' ex-broadcast units, will be well past its sell-by date) then there's still plenty more work to do! ;)
Marco.
Dominic Harper
19-01-2012, 14:23
I will concentrate on the plinths and carts Marco, got enough on my plate with that! :eyebrows:
Hi Colin,
Of all the changes youve made Marco, which one would you say had the most dramatic impact. The one change which made you realize the Techy was good but just got a whole lot better?
That's a difficult one, because there are many things I've done to my Techy which has fundamentally improved its sound.
I think if I were to single out one thing, it would be the first time I added a Paul Hynes off-board PSU. I was using a Timestep one at the time, and then heard Shuggie's SR3, which completely blew the Timestep away. Quite simply, the latter made the Techy sound limp, 2-dimentional, and just boring in comparison.
That one was quite a seminal moment in my appreciation of just how good the Techy could get, when a 'beefier' over-specified PSU was used, other than that which 'the guru' from Dartmouth had deemed as being 'plenty' ;)
But I'd say that it is the combination of upgrading the stock bearing and platter, for something significantly better (choose whichever available products you wish) that really makes the Techy finally 'grow up' and become a serious high-end contender! :)
Marco.
Good to know, cheers Marco.
Paul Hynes
19-01-2012, 16:19
I know this is slightly off topic but if anyone with an SP10 wants a high performance power supply for it I would be happy to oblige.
Regards
Paul
What would be good to investigate is how the electronics on the deck itself have aged as marco has said. maybe they haven't - the bearing is supposed to take years of 24/7 operation I believe..
chris@panteg
19-01-2012, 20:33
Just a quick question , Marco or Martin but what is the approx weight of the
funk platter with magnet attached ?
what is the approx weight of the funk platter with magnet attached ?
I had it off just yesterday(!) I'll weigh it the next time I'm modding the deck.
chris@panteg
19-01-2012, 22:20
I had it off just yesterday(!) I'll weigh it the next time I'm modding the deck.
Thanks :)
What would be good to investigate is how the electronics on the deck itself have aged as marco has said. maybe they haven't
Well I can't see 40-year old capacitors still measuring at their original spec, can you? ;)
And even if they did (a bloody miracle), modern equivalents would still be vastly superior!
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with the notion that a fully updated and modified SP10 would be fantastic, but it would end up being even more of a money pit than a modified SL-1200/1210.
Marco.
Paul Hynes
19-01-2012, 23:12
The electrolytic capacitors in a 40 year old deck will be shot and will need replacing. This is not a problem and I would be happy to check out other components that may have drifted with age too, like the resistors. As Colin said it will need to be a labour of love.
WOStantonCS100
19-01-2012, 23:26
One day, someone with some respect and money on here, is going to buy an SP10 and do serious upgrades to it. I still think it's the better deck potentially and ripe for further refinement :)
I had always thought that; but, now I'm really starting to question it. Now, as I know you will, take what I say with a grain of salt. But, after drastically improving the bearing (ala Mike New), drastically improving the power supply (ala Paul Hynes), drastically improving the platter (ala Mike New and/or Funk Firm) and replacing the tonearm to suit taste, what is there left to change? That just leaves two things: the motor drive (we're now looking at finding better crystals as apparently Inspire has already done) and the plinth. Changing out a crystal is a simple matter if/when one is found. As I've just proven to myself with a 1500mk2, using the Kaneta approach to re-plinthing makes a huge difference. It's been done before and I am now designing a 1200mk2 plinth in the Kaneta style. Though it can and has been done, most approaches I've seen to re-plinthing an SP-10 are actually just a change of "platform", leaving the unit, as a whole intact, without separating the motor. Again, this is just a guess and maybe more of a question: are the electronics for the motor control in the SP-10MK2 that much better than that of the SL-1200MK2? And, given all that can be done to the 1200 (platter, plinth, crystal, power supply, tonearm, bearing) would the difference in sound quality be so apparent as to make pursuing these upgrades an exercise in futility? Here's where I have to admit to some prejudice; because, even if I could only get the 1200 95% of the way to an SP-10, the availability of parts, for what I call reasonable cost, is enough to make me continue to follow this route. Granted, all I've said could be rubbish; because, though I have heard/listened to SP-10's, I do not and never have owned one. But, if we're only talking 5 to 10%...........
You've hit the nail on the head, Biff, with what you've just written. And also to add to that, I'd never be happy with an SP10 unless I knew for sure that it was performing at 100% of its original sonic capability, exactly as it did when it was new (nothing else for me would be good enough) - and I'm not sure that this could ever be fully guaranteed. Otherwise, there would always be the 'what if?' factor, and the annoying feeling that you're using an old turntable, performing short of its full potential.
I bought my SL-1210MK5G brand new four years ago, so I have the peace of mind of knowing that only I have used it, and that the electronics are performing to their original spec and are of current manufacture; moreover I have the satisfaction of knowing that all the mods I've carried out have increased its sonic performance to a level at least equal (and in some ways superior) to that of any SP10 I've heard. And trust me I've heard some VERY good ones, comparing my T/T to them in the same system, so I can speak from considerable experience on this matter.
So no, the SP10 route, therefore, no longer holds any attraction for me. If I were to turn back the clock to before I'd bought my Techy, and embarked on modifying it, and were to choose another route, knowing what I know now about T/Ts, I'd unquestionably buy an immaculate Thorens TD-124, as every time I hear one, even with a modest arm and cartridge, it blows me away because, to my ears, it sounds so musically 'correct'.
For me, it's the ultimate 'no fuss' audiophile T/T: neat and compact, looks fab in a suitable plinth, is superbly engineered, entirely speed stable (seems to, sonically, have the best of both worlds between belt and direct-drive), can easily be made to take a 12" arm, and short of making sure that mechanically it's performing as it should (the unit is easily serviced), the T/T needs bugger all doing to it but fitting a nice arm and cartridge. In short, for me, the TD-124 a totally sorted design.
It would probably also have been rather cheaper too than what my modded Techy has cost to get to where it is now! Having said that however, I'm very happy with my Techy, as to my ears it's one of the finest T/Ts I've heard, playing all genres of music to an effortlessly high standard, and as such is an utter joy to listen to every time the needle hits a record.
I guess that you can't say any better than that! :cool:
Marco.
It would be interesting a SL1200 MK11 vs SP10 shootout!:)
chris@panteg
21-01-2012, 11:52
I've been informed that most SP10's can be restored to top performance , not really an issue ! Furthermore it's all very well saying my modded 1200 outperforms an SP10 , but the SP10 can be improved as well , though if had the money and it was available (fat chance lol) I would go for the mk3 , or an LO7D.
Hi Chris,
I've been informed that most SP10's can be restored to top performance , not really an issue !
Perhaps not for you, but it is for me, as I'm a fussy fucker. Just because someone says that an SP10 can be restored to "top performance", doesn't necessarily make it so! ;)
Furthermore it's all very well saying my modded 1200 outperforms an SP10 , but the SP10 can be improved as well...
Yes, of course. No argument there. However, the state of affairs with me is that I've not heard any SP10 so far sound as good as my modded Techy (in its current incarnation), and as no-one I know has fully upgraded an SP10, such a comparison isn't available.
Like you, my current comparison benchmark is the L-07D. The last time I compared one belonging to a mate, to my Techy, the L-07D won, but not by a massive margin. And that was before my T/T was fitted with the new Ortofon arm, better SPU, Funk platter and Paul Hynes SR7.....
It would be interesting to revisit the situation again and see what happens, which is something that I intend to do soon, so watch this space! :cool:
Marco.
The electrolytic capacitors in a 40 year old deck will be shot and will need replacing. This is not a problem and I would be happy to check out other components that may have drifted with age too, like the resistors. As Colin said it will need to be a labour of love.
You're the experienced engineer and I hate to partially disagree, but if the caps were carefully chosen to start with and run well within their tolerances and loading, would they "automatically" dry out? The caps used in HiFi grade far eastern products in the mid 70's do seem to last a heck of a lot longer than the European equivalents - unless it's the Roe sealed ones and even some of the latter go off if pushed hard for decades..
Please excuse the convoluted reasoning above, but I'm not sure that all the caps in an SP10 circuit, especially the small signal ones, would need to be replaced. The power suppply caps certainly should be checked, but isn't the blanket condemnation of all the electrolytics in the circuit a little panic inducing???
chris@panteg
21-01-2012, 12:33
Hi Chris,
Perhaps not for you, but it is for me, as I'm a fussy fucker. Just because someone says that an SP10 can be restored to "top performance", doesn't necessarily make it so! ;)
Yes, of course. No argument there. However, the state of affairs with me is that I've not heard any SP10 so far sound as good as my modded Techy, and as no-one I know has fully upgraded an SP10, such a comparison isn't available.
Like you, my current comparison benchmark is the L-07D. The last time I compared one belonging to a mate, to my Techy, the L-07D won, but not by a massive margin - and that was before my T/T was fitted with the new Ortofon arm, better SPU, Funk platter and Paul Hynes SR7.....
It would be interesting to revisit the situation again and see what happens, which is something that I intend to do soon, so watch this space! :cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco
Did you ever get round to hearing Andrew's LP12 against your deck ?
I guess it comes down to you can trust and believe ! If Richard tells me he can restore an SP10 , that's good enough for me as I've gotten to know the guy and he won't and doesn't promise miracles , just very down to earth and to the point !
The Funk platter is very interesting , shame it's 600 knicker as I ain't got 2 pot to Piss in at moment lol , but at least my deck is alive again:)
Dave, there are technical reasons why capacitors age, even when not used (which I'm sure Paul will explain, as Anthony has to me), so it doesn't matter where in the circuit that they are. They could've been lying on top of your wardrobe, unsed for 40 years, and it wouldn't matter.
Also, as I've said before, most modern electrical components are far superior. I found that out when I upgraded the crossovers in my Tannoys, so the fact is, whatever 40-year old caps, resistors and such like are inside an SP10, will easily be upgraded by replacing them with the best of what's produced now.
Anyway, what concerns me most about SP10s is not what components are inside them, but the physical abuse that most of the ones available now will have had, after having been hammered to death in broadcasting studios, and I'm afraid that I'd never be comfortable knowing that the T/T I'm using hasn't had the loving care from day one that it deserves, regardless of what anyone now does to supposedly 'fix' it.
Must run now - I've got some mates coming round for a sesh, who want to hear the Lockwoods :gig: :rave:
Laters!
Marco.
Piccies!:)
once I have pics the item will be available for sale, any day now!
Dave, there are technical reasons why capacitors age, even when not used (which I'm sure Paul will explain, as Anthony has to me), so it doesn't matter where in the circuit that they are. They could've been lying on top of your wardrobe, unsed for 40 years, and it wouldn't matter.
Also, as I've said before, most modern electrical components are far superior. I found that out when I upgraded the crossovers in my Tannoys, so the fact is, whatever 40-year old caps, resistors and such like are inside an SP10, will easily be upgraded by replacing them with the best of what's produced now.
Anyway, what concerns me most about SP10s is not what components are inside them, but the physical abuse that most of the ones available now will have had, after having been hammered to death in broadcasting studios, and I'm afraid that I'd never be comfortable knowing that the T/T I'm using hasn't had the loving care from day one that it deserves, regardless of what anyone now does to supposedly 'fix' it.
Must run now - I've got some mates coming round for a sesh, who want to hear the Lockwoods :gig: :rave:
Laters!
Marco.
there are 100's of SP10's dude that are un-molested, look at this baby, one owner from new, simply devine.
The SP10 I am sorry to say is far beter built than the SL1200, just try stopping the platter from spinning on the SP10 , the SL1200 platter stops even with the slightest touch.
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/1676f21a.jpg
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/4171b57f.jpg
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/7d61e771.jpg
Nice! But have you got any evidence of its history - perhaps you know the person who has owned it from new?
The SP10 I am sorry to say is far beter built than the SL1200, just try stopping the platter from spinning on the SP10 , the SL1200 platter stops even with the slightest touch.
Agreed, but in practice that fact is not allowing the SP10s I've compared my Techy against to sonically outperform it, so who cares? :ner: :D
;)
Right, must run - I have guests to entertain!
Marco.
I had this deck in my house for 3 weeks to up-grade the PSU and obviously listened to it in earnest, it is superb. The owner has had it from new, 25-30 years or there abouts.
The amount of wonga you have spent on your Tech will fool your brain into dismissing all other turntables as being inferior to yours anyway so who cares.........:ner:
Dpes the SL10 use the same motor as the SL1200/1210?
chris@panteg
21-01-2012, 13:39
there are 100's of SP10's dude that are un-molested, look at this baby, one owner from new, simply devine.
The SP10 I am sorry to say is far beter built than the SL1200, just try stopping the platter from spinning on the SP10 , the SL1200 platter stops even with the slightest touch.
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/1676f21a.jpg
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/4171b57f.jpg
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/7d61e771.jpg
Hi Dave
I'm drooling m8 , that is pretty lush ! would I swap that for my modded 1210 ? Erm yesterday lol:D
chris@panteg
21-01-2012, 13:46
Dpes the SL10 use the same motor as the SL1200/1210?
SL10 ? You mean the linear tracker ? It's very similar.
The SP10 is completely different , being a closed type of DD where the magnet is integral with the coil , it's far more powerful too with much greater torque and the PSU is quite different also .
Thanks Chris , yes I did mean the SP10 :doh: So it is a different motor, that's interesting...
chris@panteg
21-01-2012, 14:08
Thanks Chris , yes I did mean the SP10 :doh: So it is a different motor, that's interesting...
Though with the mk3 , the motor is an open type like the 1200 with the magnet/rotor as part of the platter again , but the way it's attached to the bearing is different .
I had this deck in my house for 3 weeks to up-grade the PSU and obviously listened to it in earnest, it is superb. The owner has had it from new, 25-30 years or there abouts.
Cool - it looks lovely. Nice wooden armboard, too, which shows that the route I've gone down with my ebony armboard was the right one. Trouble is, the people who own those SP10s tend to (quite rightly) keep them! Unfortunately, by far the majority of the SP10s on the used market are ex-broadcast units, which usually aren't, erm, quite so lovely....
The amount of wonga you have spent on your Tech will fool your brain into dismissing all other turntables as being inferior to yours anyway so who cares.........
I'm not dismissing anything, mate. I'm simply using my ears. And when these sessions take place, it's always in the company of the owners of the other turntables it was up against, who more often than not come to the same conclusions as me, so.... get it RIGHT up ye! :ner: :finger:
:D :D
Marco.
For the Technics platter fans: :)
http://www.htfr.com/assets/images/resize.php?img=BMR138964.jpg&size=S
jagdesign
12-02-2012, 17:17
Does anyone have any photos of the platter not in situ? I'm interested to see the underside as I cannot for the life of me work out how Funk can justify the RRP on this. :scratch:
Here's a photo of mine, although I don't see how that's going to help you. It's precision engineered acrylic with a very high precision sensor cog and made in very small production runs. The real proof is in the listening, and for me the sound quality is well worth the outlay.
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/Funk_Platter.jpg
As with anything in life, you pays your money and takes your choice, if it gives you what you were expecting keep it, if not send it back, could not be more simple really :)
jagdesign
12-02-2012, 18:00
Thanks for the photo Martin. It's great that you guys are pleased with the platter, I'd like to try one too, but can't afford Funk's asking price. I'll likely make my own at some point. This reminds me a lot of the Linn Keel.
Mike_New
13-02-2012, 03:18
Does anyone have any photos of the platter not in situ? I'm interested to see the underside as I cannot for the life of me work out how Funk can justify the RRP on this. :scratch:
Hi James,
I do not know what the Funk platter costs, but you must realize that the costs of labour in the UK are high compared with the relatively low cost of the acrylic material used.
From the image that Martin has posted I can see that the platter does not have the 6.5 mm of material below the magnet, which my platter has, and which lowers the centre of gravity and thus improving on the sonic qualities.
I guess the funk platter has been designed to fit all combinations of SL1200 upgrades.
Whereas my platter will only fit those SL1200 which have been upgraded with external power supplies among other things.
chris@panteg
13-02-2012, 09:18
Thanks for the photo Martin. It's great that you guys are pleased with the platter, I'd like to try one too, but can't afford Funk's asking price. I'll likely make my own at some point. This reminds me a lot of the Linn Keel.
In what way ? Do you mean Linn are taking the piss ? £2300 vs £595 makes the funk look a bargain:scratch:
There's a dealer margin in the Funk too, remember...
chris@panteg
13-02-2012, 09:42
There's a dealer margin in the Funk too, remember...
About £200 give or take or 33%
This is really where we've been spoiled by some of the direct-sellers, who charge a fair "trade" price online (plus Glenn, who could make a "proper" living if he charged what his products are really worth). I know that some manufacturers abuse this by selling online at what would be full retail, but they're in the minority I think.
If the supplying dealer fits the magnets etc to the platter? then he's earned his margin. If the platter is suppied fully rotored and ready to fit, then it's basically in the "profitable accessory" class IMO.
The circular magnet has to be removed from the Technics platter and fitted to the Funk. This is true for all aftermarket platters, as far as I know.
ChrisKemp
16-01-2014, 13:40
How is the FF Platter compared to the Oyaide MJ-12 with Oyaide weight?
Mike_New
17-01-2014, 22:16
This is really where we've been spoiled by some of the direct-sellers, who charge a fair "trade" price online (plus Glenn, who could make a "proper" living if he charged what his products are really worth). I know that some manufacturers abuse this by selling online at what would be full retail, but they're in the minority I think.
If the supplying dealer fits the magnets etc to the platter? then he's earned his margin. If the platter is suppied fully rotored and ready to fit, then it's basically in the "profitable accessory" class IMO.
Hi David, I am afraid that along with many others you do not fully understand the technical nature of the SL1200.
The "magnet" is a very special type and cannot be reproduced without the special moulds and magnetising jigs designed by Technics, which no doubt by now have been destroyed. The only way that a changeover of platters is possible as you sugest, is for the buyer to supply the magnet ring on a return basis after he recieves his new platter. This would not be practical commercially as there will always be people who forget to return the thing. It will just not work
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