Older Croft power amps ?

[IHP]

Well I had a the current Croft 7R Power amp. in my life for a short while and loved it ! Alas I'll not be spending for a while but I just wondered if anyone had a view on how GC's earlier models compared (for instance there's a Series V on ebay at the moment) ?

I still have the Micro 25 pre and think it's a marvellous bit of kit and was just curious as to whether I'd be able to get a used older GC power amp. that may approach the sound of the 7R at some time in the future.

Cheers if you can input with a view.

[simon g]

The 7R is a hybrid, the older amps to which you prefer are all valve. I would have thought they would be quite different.

You would probably find that some of the unfortunate EA era amps would be most similar. These were all vastly over priced (IMO) but should now be in the 'realistic' range.

I, too, really like the sound of the hybrid Crofts. Indeed, I almost bought an integrated new about 6 months ago. However, I was very much put off when told that delivery might be delayed as Glen was often out watching cricket! A little too 'cottage industry' for me. Still, having heard the amp, I am still tempted :doh:

[hifi_dave]

It might be 'cottage industry' but the prooducts are wonderful and at bargain prices. If there was a large corporation behind them, the prices would probably quadruple.

One joy with Croft products is that all his amps from the very first are easily and cost effectively serviced by Glenn, so you can buy s/hand with confidence. There aren't many large companies you can say that of.

[trane]

to my best experience in spite the fact that the V series power amp sounds pretty engaging it is a bit oldish-sounding with perhaps too much warmth and a bit slowish sonic picture with slightly compromised soundstage. also, if you read the reviews that are listed on Croft's pages, or google the net, there're some other opinions as well with the 'Wam included, where earlier there were some others' views laid out on the same amp in both reference and preference to the plain 7 power that you also owned...

[DSJR]

My own personal experiences of the original valve stuff is this - both as a user and having friends owning his gear, notwithstanding my listening at Dave's when he was in radlett of course...

The Series 4SA was a friendly and warm-toned amp. Characterful certainly, but charming in the best possible sense. Wonderful with Pro-Acs of the day I remember and long lived on its valves too. Twenty odd years of regular use may see a need for new valves and just possibly a cap or two..

I had an unregulated OTL for a while (in the Series 4 case). Incredibly simple circuit inside and TV output valves I remember (durable and under utilised in audio). When working, it was spectacularly good and even made a stab at driving ATC20's, which are a painfully inneficient load. great with Epos 14's I remember and the design is fine with higher impedance loads like Tannoys for example. However, the sample I had was extremely tetchy and could blow one of the four line fuses at random, even at low volume levels. One Saturday, playing at whisper quiet volumes (I had friends round and we were talking), a fuse blew without me noticing and several minutes later, there was a firework display inside. I turned the house-mains off and replaced the blown fuse. I think it worked again after that, but after a checkup at Glenn's, it was sold on and I never saw it again..

The Series 5 amps were incredibly good and appealed to the valvey person as well as a lover of good solid state. Compared to my Crofted Quad II's, a Series 5 sounded better frankly; more powerful and with better reproduction at the frequency extremes. The Quads still won out on "charm," but the series 5 was a FAR better, more "universal," and higher fidelity product in my view....

After Glenn was absorbed into EA, he became all but un-contactable I understand and reliability issues (on stuff Glenn himself hadn't made?) and other problems caused Dave to look elsewhere, finding an excellent range in early nineties Mark Levinson, which was darned good stuff I remember. SOME of this early 90's Levinson is almost affordable now and well worth looking out for (the then plain black boxes hide some really nice amps I think).

Sorry, I don't know the late 90's models, but I understand Glenn feels his recent hybrid designs are superior to what he made before and retain all the air and space of the transformer coupled models, but with modern-world load tolerance and obviously lower cost, since really good transformers are extremely expensive and raise the amp output impedance, making things more difficult driving current 4 ohm mini-boxes...

[IHP]

Many thanks for this, appreciated. Apart from the performance of this kit I have to say that the 'lack of committee' ethos really does appeal to me.

In terms of a future buy I have value in the Micro 25 pre I have so the new £850 integrated may not be completely out of reach. I wonder if this current 25 pre can be upgraded to the integrated ?

Anyway, for another day.

[DSJR]

I wonder if this current 25 pre can be upgraded to the integrated ?

Anyway, for another day.

No, IMO you're thinking the wrong way round :) My advice would be to keep the 25 as-is and get a good used Quad 303, bearing in mind the 33 and 303 each invert the absolute phase, so if used with the Croft, the +ve speaker wire goes to the black amp terminal and not the red one........

The 303 in proper fettle sounds incredibly valve like with a clean source fed it and if treasured properly will easily resell at little no no loss, depending on market conditions and the original purchase price.. Just my thoughts for a cheapo power amp of great positive character which holds its value...

[hifi_dave]

It wouldn't be cost effective as it will need a complete back panel for a start, different power supply etc. Far better to keep your Micro and add the Series 7 power-amp, which is £300 cheaper than the Integrated (P). So, the cost won't be a lot different but you will get a better sound.
Many thanks for this, appreciated. Apart from the performance of this kit I have to say that the 'lack of committee' ethos really does appeal to me.

In terms of a future buy I have value in the Micro 25 pre I have so the new £850 integrated may not be completely out of reach. I wonder if this current 25 pre can be upgraded to the integrated ?

Anyway, for another day.