New Car after New Year...Petrol or Diesel?

[Gazjam]

Ah the age old question....:scratch:

Some specifics:
Getting a good deal on a new Ford Focus, either 1.6 Zetec Petrol (125ps) or 1.6 Zetec TdCi (115PS)
Decided on one of these two, not a Golf thanks ;)

1.6 Petrol does combined 47mpg
TdCi does combined 67mpg :eek:

also..
- 3 seconds faster 30-60
- same 0-60 time
- 120mph vs 122 top speed
- same level spec inside
- 6 speed Gearbox as opposed to 5
- Reviews online say the engine/cabin refinement is excellent
(no clattery old transit van noise here..)

Is the Diesel a no brainer?
Any potential "gotcha's" with it? :scratch:

Not owned a Diesel before, coming at this from an economy/refinement/bang for buck angle rather than being a boy racer. :)
I know the cost per litre of diesel is about 10p more and offsets the improved mpg a bit, but should still be cheaper to run, even though I dont forsee doing many 000's of miles per year.

The better economy, torquier engine at sensible speeds and six speed box all tick the boxes for me...what do you guys think?

thanks for any comments.
gaz.

[Alex_UK]

I'd go with the diesel, personally - used to hate them, but they are much more refined now, and the midrange torque is much more usable than a small petrol engine in the real world. One other point worth checking though is servicing costs/duration of each.

[bobbasrah]

Gary, I would generally agree with Alex on diesel, BUT, beware of the FAP and associated system management controls.
The euro pollution requirements for filtration of soots creates a complicated system, which can cause nightmares, notably on the PSA engines which Ford may share. I suggest you check and google out owners forums.
FAP inserts a filter in the exhaust system to trap soot particles (thank you greenies), which are burned off periodically by introducing an additive to raise the exhaust temperature. The additive and filter have to be replaced periodically which raises maintenance costs significantly enough to reduce the cost advantage of diesel.
All sounds good for the environment, BUT - As well as reduced power, on my own Citroen C5 it has caused all sorts of false alarms to system management, ruining reliability, and made me seriously reconsider whether my historic allegiance to diesel is worth the hassle any more.
Bob

[DSJR]

My Focus diesel "DI" is too old for the worst of the current filtration? and isn't quite as economical as the CI models (50mpg on a run where the CI can do 60mpg I believe). The ussue for me then, is that diesel is now around 40p a gallon more (oh alright, 9p a litre), so many of the cost advantages are swiped at the pumps.

I think Ford make their own diesels? PSA started the current trend for really good diesels but even new ones sound a real bag of nails compared to Ford, Vauxhall and VW.

One final thing. What kind of journeys do you make? Longer trips of well over fifteen miles each way are fine, but diesel engines seem to take longer to warm up than good petrol ones and shorter journeys may just favour the petreol, unless Ford have improved this in current models.

[Ali Tait]

I had a petrol Focus as a temporary hire car for a few months before getting my company car. It was a 1.6 petrol, and I'll say now, it will do nowhere near it's quoted mpg. In normal mixed driving you will be lucky to break 33-34 mpg, plus the engine is so weedy I had to drop it two cogs to get it to do anything at all. So there we have it, crap performance and woeful mpg- I've had better from a 2.0 liter!

I'd go for the diesel mate, if you really want a focus. Personally, performance aside, I really didn't think much to mine. It went round a corner ok, but I thought build quality very poor, and they've used the thinnest steel they could get away with for the body panels. It's so thin you can poke it in with one finger.

[bobbasrah]

To be fair, lightweight steel and plastics are common these days, as they reduce weight which in theory gives better economy. Oddly, the mileage obtained today with many models, is not the giant leap forward from 20 years ago the ads would have you believe, and manufacturer's test figures are usually unrealistic.
Ford do NOT make all their own engines - you may be surprised what lurks beneath the badge these days. There is a lot of engine sharing between manufacturers.

Unless you are doing huge distances, a petrol should do fine. Depreciation will cost you more than mileage and servicing ever will.

Ford? - There are plenty of dealers around desperate to shift units, so take whatever deal makes most sense financially to you.

[Tim]

I had this choice myself recently and went from diesel to petrol, but it was a very close call. My reasoning was down to overall cost - the diesel engine was £2,000 more than the petrol engine, but more economical. I did the maths (I'm a bit anal and keep car records of mileage, fuel used and costs) and worked out what my annual mileage/costs were likely to be for both and it was going to take nearly 10 years before the extra £2,000 would be clawed back to make the diesel more economical. As I won't be keeping the car that long I went for the petrol, which gives me around 50+ mpg the way I drive.

So for me it was purely down to money. However, I do prefer to drive a modern diesel engine, the mid-range torque I really miss. If the two engines had been a similar price or if my yearly mileage had been high, I would have chosen a diesel without any hesitation.

What is interesting is my petrol engine gives more mpg than the diesel engine it replaced, however it was rather old.

[Ali Tait]

To be fair, lightweight steel and plastics are common these days, as they reduce weight which in theory gives better economy. Oddly, the mileage obtained today with many models, is not the giant leap forward from 20 years ago the ads would have you believe, and manufacturer's test figures are usually unrealistic.
Ford do NOT make all their own engines - you may be surprised what lurks beneath the badge these days. There is a lot of engine sharing between manufacturers.

Unless you are doing huge distances, a petrol should do fine. Depreciation will cost you more than mileage and servicing ever will.

Ford? - There are plenty of dealers around desperate to shift units, so take whatever deal makes most sense financially to you.

Yes, I'm aware of materials usage, but the Focus seems to be particularly bad in this respect. The Laguna I have now is far better built by comparison. Nissan engine too..

[Ali Tait]

I had this choice myself recently and went from diesel to petrol, but it was a very close call. My reasoning was down to overall cost - the diesel engine was £2,000 more than the petrol engine, but more economical. I did the maths (I'm a bit anal and keep car records of mileage, fuel used and costs) and worked out what my annual mileage/costs were likely to be for both and it was going to take nearly 10 years before the extra £2,000 would be clawed back to make the diesel more economical. As I won't be keeping the car that long I went for the petrol, which gives me around 50+ mpg the way I drive.

So for me it was purely down to money. However, I do prefer to drive a modern diesel engine, the mid-range torque I really miss. If the two engines had been a similar price or if my yearly mileage had been high, I would have chosen a diesel without any hesitation.

What is interesting is my petrol engine gives more mpg than the diesel engine it replaced, however it was rather old.

Yes, I recall Top Gear doing a comparison with two Suzuki Swifts, one petrol, one diesel. If you're doing mostly town driving, the petrol gave better economy.

[Roy S]

Don't know whether Ford Diesels still have issues with failing dual mass flywheels, got rid of my 2.2 Mondeo (with this as a known problem) would have cost over £1000 to fix. It had done 93,000 miles but the engines should be good for twice that.

[Ali Tait]

My Alfa 166 2 liter did 220,000 miles with no problems whatsoever.

[Gazjam]

Took a test drive today of both.
Diesel, no question.

Pulls a lot better and the 6 speed box makes a good difference on the Motorway.
Quiet, refined inside too, not what I expected a diesel to be.
Honestly, a really nice car.

Happy chocolate button, placing order next week.

thanks for the suggestions/comments

[aquapiranha]

we had a focus 1.6 petrol when I put the other car through a fence, until the insurance paid out. I would NEVER consider buying one as the thing drank petrol like you would not believe!! I honestly could not believe how bad the mpg was.

[Ali Tait]

Aye, agreed!

[Ali Tait]

Took a test drive today of both.
Diesel, no question.

Pulls a lot better and the 6 speed box makes a good difference on the Motorway.
Quiet, refined inside too, not what I expected a diesel to be.
Honestly, a really nice car.

Happy chocolate button, placing order next week.

thanks for the suggestions/comments

Good you're happy mate, enjoy the car.

[MartinT]

Diesel all the way. However, in my case the consideration was not only economy (I commute 56 miles a day) but performance - I just love the power delivery and torque of my diesel engine. Admittedly it's a high end twin turbo, but I would not now return to the sluggish pickup of petrol engines.

Oh, and I've had absolutely no service issues with it at all after 53,000 miles so far.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Diesel all the way. However, in my case the consideration was not only economy (I commute 56 miles a day) but performance - I just love the power delivery and torque of my diesel engine. Admittedly it's a high end twin turbo, but I would not now return to the sluggish pickup of petrol engines.

Oh, and I've had absolutely no service issues with it at all after 53,000 miles so far.

That BMW i went in???
that was a diesel?
or have you changed cars?

[MartinT]

It's a diesel, Hamish. Smooth, isn't it? :)

[Jonboy]

We got a Mercedes Viano 2.2 diesel that has been superchipped it does 28-30mpg on average all day long even cruising at 80mph on french motorways , drops down to 22 mpg when i'm towing 1.5 - 2 ton but it pulls very well indeed, we also have a Mercedes A class 1.5 petrol it struggles to do 30- 33 mpg and only chugs around town very tempted to get a Diesel car to replace it, i quite fancy an Alfa Mito (http://www.alfaromeo.co.uk/uk/#/car-models/mito), they are only a 1.4 and put out 170 hp, on an Auto box they are quicker than the manual :eek:

I have just started running my old Land Rover Discovery on a 70/30% ratio veg oil mixed in with Diesel, (biased to the Diesel) at just under £1 a litre for the oil it certainley saves a bit

[The Vinyl Adventure]

It's a diesel, Hamish. Smooth, isn't it? :)

yeah!! very!! :)