Setting up an Orbe

[sprint]

I have just purchased a new Orbe which I am fitting with a SME V arm and having a few problems setting it up, as I am with the arm but that is a another story and would appreciate some help, comments, advice on setting it up from anybody who has some experience with them?

The first problem is that the sub-chassis, the sprung cast bit that holds the platter and arm, is very close to the underside of the motor top flange and any gently movement has the sub-chassis hitting the motor flange. The feet are fully wound in and the gap between the secondary and primary plinths is less than 1mm as is the gap between the sub-chassis and the spring post felt pads, so there is no more lowering adjustment available.
I don't particularly want to be putting anything under the motor to raise it as it looks naff and surely it should be designed with enough clearance, it's been around long enough to have sorted such basic clearance requirements, so why am I having such a problem?

Second problem is levelling the sub-chassis and platter? Instructions tell you to level the sub-chassis to the plinth but if you then put a bubble level on the platter it does not run level. If you adjust the level so that the platter is level in all direction the sub-chassis level is out, lord knows why as the spindle bush assy should be perpendicular to the sub-chassis? Which is the best level to set, the sub-chassis in which case the platter is not spinning level, or level the platter so it is true and spinning level?

I don't have enough space to place the motor power supply to the side so it is currently on a shelf below the Orbe. Is that a no-no or is the emitted EMC, unless suitable screened, likely to cause a problem? Otherwise it will have to go on the floor and be about 1m away?

Similarly the phono pre amp, ANT Kora 3T Ltd MC, is also sitting under the Orbe is that also a no-no? The power supply for the ANT is about 1m away, so should not be a problem, but the phono amp itself is currently underneath.

[hifi_dave]

Any dealer worth his salt would have insisted on setting that up for you, to
make sure everything was perfect and working properly.

Obviously something is wrong but I can't work out what from your description. Maybe a pic or two would help..:scratch:

[Audioman]

I have just purchased a new Orbe which I am fitting with a SME V arm and having a few problems setting it up, as I am with the arm but that is a another story and would appreciate some help, comments, advice on setting it up from anybody who has some experience with them?

The first problem is that the sub-chassis, the sprung cast bit that holds the platter and arm, is very close to the underside of the motor top flange and any gently movement has the sub-chassis hitting the motor flange. The feet are fully wound in and the gap between the secondary and primary plinths is less than 1mm as is the gap between the sub-chassis and the spring post felt pads, so there is no more lowering adjustment available.
I don't particularly want to be putting anything under the motor to raise it as it looks naff and surely it should be designed with enough clearance, it's been around long enough to have sorted such basic clearance requirements, so why am I having such a problem?

Second problem is levelling the sub-chassis and platter? Instructions tell you to level the sub-chassis to the plinth but if you then put a bubble level on the platter it does not run level. If you adjust the level so that the platter is level in all direction the sub-chassis level is out, lord knows why as the spindle bush assy should be perpendicular to the sub-chassis? Which is the best level to set, the sub-chassis in which case the platter is not spinning level, or level the platter so it is true and spinning level?

I don't have enough space to place the motor power supply to the side so it is currently on a shelf below the Orbe. Is that a no-no or is the emitted EMC, unless suitable screened, likely to cause a problem? Otherwise it will have to go on the floor and be about 1m away?

Similarly the phono pre amp, ANT Kora 3T Ltd MC, is also sitting under the Orbe is that also a no-no? The power supply for the ANT is about 1m away, so should not be a problem, but the phono amp itself is currently underneath.

Setting up Gyro/Orbe.

Going back to basics as I don't know what you have done.

Adjust feet so the base or spyder (if SE) is level. (Use a spirit level). You should adjust height that is correct for motor to be in position.

Place cast Mickey Mouse Chassis on springs followed by bearing platter etc. Fitting arm board (with bolts and spacers) and arm to cast chassis first may be easier. Make sure you add oil to well before fitting bearing. Also ensure ball is inside the inverted bearing before assembly. You can adjust arm later.

Adjust springs to get an even up and down bounce wthout wobble side to side. The chassis hole should centre itself round the motor. To do this turn the springs back and forth one by one slightly to achieve the correct positioning. Also there should only be a few millimetres between the casting and the plinth. If the motor flange still fowls top of casting re-adjust the feet to lower plinth/spyder.

Recheck your platter is level - If not repeat leveling/adjusting proceedure.
Then set up arm with alignment protractor. As it is new I assume you have the instructions.

Hope this is helpfull.

[Audioman]

Any dealer worth his salt would have insisted on setting that up for you, to
make sure everything was perfect and working properly.

Obviously something is wrong but I can't work out what from your description. Maybe a pic or two would help..:scratch:

Unfortunately some dealers are clueless. Perhaps the OP purchased it on the net.

[blake]

http://www.angelfire.com/music5/michell_gyrodec/

[sprint]

Any dealer worth his salt would have insisted on setting that up for you, to
make sure everything was perfect and working properly.

Obviously something is wrong but I can't work out what from your description. Maybe a pic or two would help..:scratch:


See photo which shows the clearance between the sub-chassis and the underside of the motor top flange, which is only about 0.5mm at its nearest point and as such any slight movement of the sub-chassis causes the two to make contact.

As previously advised the secondary plinth feet are fully screwed in and all the other clearances are at a minimum of about 1mm, so there is really not a lot more I can do to lower the sub-chassis relative to the motor flange that has a fixed distance of 92mm.

The platter has been levelled but when I check the sub-chassis it is not level? One would assume that the top face of the sub-chassis should be flat and level so that the platter spindle should be perpendicular to it and it and the tone arm would therefore also be on the same plane. So I do not understand why the top of the platter and the sub-chassis would appear to be not parallel to each other and therefore, automatically level at the same time?

[flapland]

It looks like you have to big a gap between the metal chassis and the acrylic plinth. On mine its about 4mm or 1 and bit mm between the top of the felt washer and the bottom of the metal chassis.

Also it looks like the chassis is sloping right to left and therefore the left front spring needs adjusting to drop the chassis down, the rear one may also need adjustment.

I have a gap of about 4-5 mm between the chassis and the bottom of the motor flange. However I have a older AC motor so that could be a little taller although I suspect not.

If you don't manage to get it sorted give Michell a bell tomorrow, they are renown for being extremely helpful.

[sprint]

It looks like you have to big a gap between the metal chassis and the acrylic plinth. On mine its about 4mm or 1 and bit mm between the top of the felt washer and the bottom of the metal chassis.

Also it looks like the chassis is sloping right to left and therefore the left front spring needs adjusting to drop the chassis down, the rear one may also need adjustment.

I have a gap of about 4-5 mm between the chassis and the bottom of the motor flange. However I have a older AC motor so that could be a little taller although I suspect not.

If you don't manage to get it sorted give Michell a bell tomorrow, they are renown for being extremely helpful.

That is part of the problem, I guess. With the SME V fitted I am levelling to the top of the platter as if I level the sub-chassis the top of the platter is out, which I assume is the one that should be level?

The rear and R/H spring assy's (nearest the arm) have been adjusted to give a min of 1mm distance between the sub-chassis and the felt pad. However, with the platter level the L/H spring assy has a 2 to 2.5mm gap which is causing the tapered gap between the the underside of the motor flange, which 92mm from its base.

Don't understand why the sub-chassis and the top of the platter are not level at the same time as they should be parallel to each other, amusing the top of the sub-chassis is flat and level, as it should be else neither the arm or platter are potentially going to be in the same plane?

[flapland]

Is the gap between the metal chassis and the platter even all the way round, if not the bearing might not be straight/fitted correctly. If you are trying to get a sprit-level level on the platter I found thats only practical if the shelf/table is true, you can't really correct using the suspension.

I wider photo would help me and others I believe.

[John]

Get your shelf level first and then work from that

[YNWaN]

The platter has been levelled but when I check the sub-chassis it is not level?

Well there is somthing wrong then because they should both be on the same plane and level.

Your picture of the chassis and motor shows the chassis to be a long way from level.

If you bought this second hand and it was shipped with the platter fitted, I would look at whether the bearing shaft is bent relative to its mounting plate. I'm afraid I strongly suspect the bearing is knackered.

[sprint]

Thanks for the replies.

The Orbe has been bought new from a dealer but he is some distance away so it is not possible for them to set it up, in any event I prefer to do it myself but don't believe that I should be experiencing these sort of problems with a deck that has been around now for many years and designed very much to go with the SME V?

The spindle is correctly fitted, can't really go wrong there as the base simply screws into the underside of the sub-chassis and then the bearing simply drops onto the shaft, so if it is out then that is how it was machined?

The support table is level, checked in 4 positions as is the secondary and primary plinths, also checked in 4 positions with good spirit level, 60cm long aluminium with machined faces. Then I am using a small round bubble level to level the top of the platter which is when I get the problem with the L/H spring assy being higher (less weight) that the other two causing the tapered gap under the motor flange.

I guess I will have to speak to Michell and see what they can suggest?

[blake]

Sorry: Should have posted this link earlier:

http://www.angelfire.com/music5/michell_gyrodec/step_by_step/manual.html

Agree with others that the primary problem here is the bearing. Either a defective bearing or one that has not been screwed into the subchassis properly. First thing I would do based on your photos (and assuming, as others have said, you are starting with a level support shelf) is take the table apart, unscrew the bearing from the subchassis and start over by reinstalling it. The base of the bearing should be absolutely flush with the bottom of the subchassis when fully screwed in and the bearing shaft should be straight. If that is the case then what you are experiencing should not be possible.

The other issue is a spring adjustment, requiring proper seating of the springs on the rubber supports on the suspension posts and proper adjustment, which is relatively minor and is covered in the link above.

[YNWaN]

Well. irrespective, the chassis and the platter should both be level at the same time, that much is certain (and doesn't depend on the supporting surface being level).

[blake]

Well. irrespective, the chassis and the platter should both be level at the same time, that much is certain (and doesn't depend on the supporting surface being level).

Yes, that is certainly true. The fact that chassis and platter are not level at the same time and that the subchassis is so out of wack with the motor housing is a bearing issue one way or the other.

In terms of the last detail with respect to absolutely perfect level of the platter I find it easier to make that final adjustment with the feet of the table.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Not really had a chance to read this all the way through, but have you got the correct arm board? The board & arm should weigh 1kg together. If not, then it will never balance. I'm not sure, but an SME V armboard will very likely have a different weight to one for the other SME models, so even though the mounting geometry is correct, you still may not have the right board.
Worth checking, I'd say.


EDIT: Just got to the bit about the chassis & platter not being parallel - maybe my suggestion is not the answer you're after!

[sprint]

Not really had a chance to read this all the way through, but have you got the correct arm board? The board & arm should weigh 1kg together. If not, then it will never balance. I'm not sure, but an SME V armboard will very likely have a different weight to one for the other SME models, so even though the mounting geometry is correct, you still may not have the right board.
Worth checking, I'd say.


EDIT: Just got to the bit about the chassis & platter not being parallel - maybe my suggestion is not the answer you're after!

Thanks for the suggestion but the SME V armboard was supplied directly from Michell with the Orbe, so I would expect that it is right. Haven't weighed the arm but it is listed as being 720g so with the supplied armboard it should be less than 1kg.

[YNWaN]

If the arm weighs 720g then the armboard should be reasonably close to 280g as the combined weight should be close to 1kg (not less than 1kg).

However, this is not the problem you are having - your problem specifically revolves (no pun intended) around the fact that the platter and chassis are not level with respect to each other. There are only three potential reasons why this may be the case, 1/ you have somehow put it together wrongly, 2/ there is a fault with the bearing, 3/ the spirit level you are using is at fault.
________________

If that picture you have posted is with the platter level, then something is seriously wrong.

[Dominic Harper]

Hi, just thought I would add my 2 cents. From the single image posted, showing the motor pod with chassis around it, it is impossible to comment on what is going on here.
Having owned a gyro, it seems pretty impossible from the image supplied to suggest the main bearing is faulty.
With any orb/gyro, setup starts from the ground up. Make sure the surface deck will be sitting on is level,
Screw feet onro the spiders, assuming it is the SE model,
site this on surface,
fit the spring adjusters to the spider, making sure each adjuster has the ball bearing within so all are the same height,
place chassis and bearing over adjusters making sure motor pod is also in situ.
Spring adjusters should be roughly adjusted so chassis sits fairly level.
Add oil to bearing well. Add a little oil to other part of bearing so when dropped onto bearing spindle you do not have dry metal surfaces making contact.
Fit platter carefully. Adjust suspension with the knurled adjusters so chassis sits level again. Fit arm and arm board.
Adjust suspension again as mentioned before.
Platter should be level and bounce needs to be vertical with no shimmy.
If there is shimmy, twist springs so chassis sits equally on springs. Twisting one spring may be enough, but this can be a frustrating and time consuming job to get it perfect.
Once your happy fit spring covers.
Make sure belt is fitted before you check for correct bounce.

[YNWaN]

Having owned a gyro, it seems pretty impossible from the image supplied to suggest the main bearing is faulty.

Well, note that I wrote "if the picture is taken with the platter level".

Dominic, I look forward to your explanation of how the platter can sit at a different angle to the chassis.

[blake]

Well, note that I wrote "if the picture is taken with the platter level".

Dominic, I look forward to your explanation of how the platter can sit at a different angle to the chassis.

I've owned a plinthed Gyro for more than 25 years now. The OP's Orbe appears to be a plinthed one if I'm looking at it correctly, not that it really makes much of a difference whether it's plinthed or SE.

In going back on this and looking at Dominic's statement I suppose it may be possible that the subchassis is not properly levelled (with it sitting higher on the left hand side when viewed from the front) and somehow binding on the motor housing. If this is the problem it should be a relatively easy fix with spring adjustment.

But, as you are saying, if it is not binding on the motor housing (and probably even if it is) and the platter and subchassis are not absolutely parallel when the platter is in place and "attached" then the bearing (either defective or installed improperly) is pretty much the only culprit unless the underside of the platter which couples with the top of the bearing has not been machined properly and is not true.

At this stage I'm running out of ideas. Hopefully the OP can get this resolved and report back on what the problem was.

[sprint]

Yes the photo was taken with the top of the platter level.

The attached photos show the top of the platter level, but the chassis and armboard not being level at the same time?

[YNWaN]

Well, whatever the cause, the bottom line is that they should both be level at the same time (not just on your turntable, on all turntables). The bearing may well not be the issue, but, at the same time, there are a limited range of potential reasons.

Andy, have sent you a PM.