Wireless or wired?

[dave2010]

Given the sometimes arcane and esoteric suggestions (and beliefs) on some hi-fi boards (including this one) does anyone think there is really a significant difference between using wired ethernet and wireless for music distribution round the home? Theoretically there could be some differences, and I'd expect more data errors using wireless, but with many data comms protocols being fast enough and generally robust enough there may be very little in it under normal circumstances.

That said, I thought I'd buy a couple more ethernet switches from Amazon, so that I can couple my Squeezebox up using a wired connection in the future.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-Gigabit-Unmanaged-Desktop-TL-SG1005D/dp/B000N99BBC/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1322122542&sr=1-1 and this for example - http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000MGBOHA/ref=ox_ya_os_product I already have some of these - http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-Unmanaged-Desktop-TL-SF1005D-Plastic/dp/B000FNFSPY/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1322122631&sr=1-1 excellent value.

Seems a modest price to pay for a speculative improvement in SQ, and a lot cheaper than some cables and other gadgets.

[Thing Fish]

I don't stream music but I use a wired network to my WDTV Live because its a bit tricky streaming full on 1080p via wireless without a degree of stuttering.

Not sure if that helps but thought I'd chip in...:)

[Stratmangler]

I don't stream music but I use a wired network to my WDTV Live because its a bit tricky streaming full on 1080p via wireless without a degree of stuttering.

Not sure if that helps but thought I'd chip in...:)

It shouldn't be difficult.
It sounds like you might have other local wifi utilising the same channel as you, and this is causing data transmit/receive problems.

There should be an app for your iPhone to show local wifi networks, and the channels they're broadcasting on.

[Mark Grant]

If it's possible to install the wires I would use wires, mainly for reliability.

Also I would buy the gigabit switches as they dont cost much more.

When I install a Sonos system I always install network cables to zone players for reliability.
Wireless will usually work perfectly when you first install it but if your next door neighbour installs a new wireless device on the same channel then there can be problems.

[dave2010]

It shouldn't be difficult.
It sounds like you might have other local wifi utilising the same channel as you, and this is causing data transmit/receive problems.

There should be an app for your iPhone to show local wifi networks, and the channels they're broadcasting on.For video, particularly HD, wireless may not always work. A simple enough test is to use a laptop, and connect to your wireless network. Then look at a YouTube video, and start walking away from your access point. There may be dead spots in your house where the signal just dies. If that doesn't happen you can then up the ante and try regular TV and finally HD, which can be much more challenging. If you can get video well, then it should be quite good for audio use, but might still drop the occasional bit. You can also find the other stations in your area using a laptop. Preferred channels are 1,6 and 11, as unless you are using 802.11a, the channels overlap to some extent. Also look at the signal strength of your neighbour's kit - e.g. Netstumbler. Then choose one of 1,6,11 which has the smallest signal from your neighbours. You'll need to check at both ends of your link too, if you're really picky.

[RichB]

It shouldn't be difficult.
It sounds like you might have other local wifi utilising the same channel as you, and this is causing data transmit/receive problems.

There should be an app for your iPhone to show local wifi networks, and the channels they're broadcasting on.

I had this problem with wireless streaming to my Arcam, got a free application called inssider, and used this see what channels all the nearby networks were using. Turned out that everyone in my street was using channel 6 which must be the default setting on many routers, i then changed my router to another channel and wifi has been rocksolid since.

[WAD62]

I stream native 16/44.1 FLAC to my 4 SBs via wi-fi without any issues, or interference with other wi-fi internet browsing etc from my PCs and laptops, even using skype etc.

However I am planning on streaming 1080p video from my Server in the future, and for that I'll use a hard wired solution, just to prevent it from clogging up the bandwidth for other wi-fi activities...as mentioned above :)

[dave2010]

If it's possible to install the wires I would use wires, mainly for reliability.

Also I would buy the gigabit switches as they dont cost much more.

When I install a Sonos system I always install network cables to zone players for reliability.
Wireless will usually work perfectly when you first install it but if your next door neighbour installs a new wireless device on the same channel then there can be problems.Having now bought and tested a couple of the switches I can agree with this, but with some provisos. Firstly, if wireless works for you, then the cheapest option is to stick with it. The audio quality seems pretty much identical via wireless and wired. I might have to listen for a long while before I'd notice any differences due to missing packets/samples. Wireless can be affected by other equipment, such as microwave ovens, cordless phones, and as mentioned, your neighbours' wireless routers . Such interference, if it affects you at all, is likely to come in bursts, and should not be continuous. If it's not a major problem then live with it, otherwise try wire.

Re the switches from TP Link, they all seem to work. For so-called future proofing the gigabit ones are better, though they are more expensive, and slightly larger. The TP Link gigabit units have the power in from the back, while the 10/100 ones have the power socket at the side, which might be less convenient, and not so neat. If colour matters to you, the gigabit units come in black. Paranoia will require you to use Cat6 cable, which is slightly more expensive than Cat5e. If you're going to want a gigabit network in the future, then the gigabit switches will make that simpler. The 10/100 switches are fine, will interoperate with the gigabit switches, and are very cheap. For audio work there's not really any point in using gigabit switches, but having gigabit switches available would avoid any bottleneck problems if a 10/100 unit is patched into a gigabit network later by accident.

On balance I'd say it's possible that wired networks might be more reliable. It's not always necessary to use active devices such as switches and routers. Cable could be Cat5e or Cat6, though Cat6 is preferred for gigabit networking, should that be needed. That will be determined by other requirements, as audio, and perhaps even video, should work well enough with 10/100 networks.

Many users will find that wireless is good enough, cheaper even than the cheapest wired network, and audible differences will be slight or non-existant.

One thing to note is whether the equipment connected can use both wireless and wired connectivity at the same time, or whether it must be configured for one or the other. In the case of the Classic Squeezebox (SB3), it uses one or the other. Thus a failure in the wired link will not force a seamless fallback to wireless, or, AFAIK, vice-versa. Some devices may be able to use wired and wireless connectivity to provide such failure fallback.

[Covenant]

Pah! Call yourself audiophiles? IMO a wired connection is a must because it is difficult to do and you feel pleased with yourself when you have drilled through walls and ceilings to route the cable.
No, seriously I think it does marginally improve quality, certainly with my Touch fitted with a linear supply and all the software mods I have reached a very satisfactory standard.

[WAD62]

No, seriously I think it does marginally improve quality, certainly with my Touch fitted with a linear supply and all the software mods I have reached a very satisfactory standard.

Assuming that one has a reliable wi-fi link, and you are sending standard FLAC etc. there is no difference in the data transmission between wireless and hard wired. It's a reliable asynchronous FTP process.

Where one can potentially gain a benefit from hard wired is if the Wi-Fi receiver can be disabled, which I believe is one of the soundcheck mods, this could prevent some interference with the other on board functionality...but the data transmission remains the same. ;)

[dave2010]

Assuming that one has a reliable wi-fi link, and you are sending standard FLAC etc. there is no difference in the data transmission between wireless and hard wired. It's a reliable asynchronous FTP process.

Where one can potentially gain a benefit from hard wired is if the Wi-Fi receiver can be disabled, which I believe is one of the soundcheck mods, this could prevent some interference with the other on board functionality...but the data transmission remains the same. ;)Jerry

In my room the wireless router is situated close enough to the Squeezebox, so I don't think there are really any problems with the data transfer. However, if it were much further away, then I'm pretty sure that I'd have to go wired. It's sad that my SB doesn't do alternative paths, to allow for different situations. When it loses a source due to link failure it does not switch to the other possible active link - I have checked this. Failure doesn't happen immediately though, due to the relatively large buffer in the unit.

My dad came from Aughton.

Will

Interesting comment re a possible secondary effect. It's just possible I suppose that not receiving wirelessly could give benefits - though the data should be the same either way. I didn't know that the comms uses FTP.

[Covenant]

Assuming that one has a reliable wi-fi link, and you are sending standard FLAC etc. there is no difference in the data transmission between wireless and hard wired. It's a reliable asynchronous FTP process.

Where one can potentially gain a benefit from hard wired is if the Wi-Fi receiver can be disabled, which I believe is one of the soundcheck mods, this could prevent some interference with the other on board functionality...but the data transmission remains the same. ;)

Agreed, but I think the basis of the Soundcheck mod's is to reduce the load on the processor, that's what he claims anyway. I used to have a bugger of a time with rebuffering until I got wired up so it was worth it for me irrespective of the SQ improvement.

[StanleyB]

I had to install a separate wireless router without any security and disable the firewall on the laptop I use for audio and video in order to overcome drop out issues. I assume that the firewall and WIFI security system is causing a delay in the streamed signal.
If anyone intends to give that method a go, you can still protect your 'audio' wireless connection by doing the following steps:
1. Pick an IP address outside of the common types ( i.e. something different to 10.x.x.x., or 192.x.x.x.).
2. Disable the transmission of the SSID from the router.
3. Allow only the 'audio' laptop (or AE or SB if that is what you are using as well) IP address to be accepted by the router.

If you do the above, it will reject anyone else trying to gain access to your wireless connection.

[chrism]

I have a fully wireless system comprising: wireless PC, Netgear router, modified SB3 SPdif into a Caiman and it sounds exactly the same if I run a cable from the PC to the router then SB3.

This is when using stored music from the PC and internet radio streams (some are fantastic quality if you trial and error them).

The router is fairly close to the SB3 and I don't suffer from any drop out etc (yet).

It can be done!

Regards

Chris