View Full Version : Frank (F1eng)'s system pics
Posting these on behalf of Frank:
"Pioneer DAT recorder, and a few of my first generation master tapes I am proud of..."
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2078/hifipix1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/80/hifipix1.jpg/)
"Lynx Theta tuner on top of the Goldmund PH2 phono stage":
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2185/hifipix2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/hifipix2.jpg/)
"Metric Halo ULN2 ADC/DAC on top of the master DeVialet D-Premier (the slave is elsewhere in the room standing on end so I can see the display whilst seated...)"
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5222/hifipix3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/hifipix3.jpg/)
"A stack of Goldmund kit, with the two Mimesis 29.4 amps on the bottom, Mimesis 22 preamp on them with Mimesis 20 DAC and Mimesis 36+ on top of these. The Goldmund "mechanical grounding" philosophy means the higher end models have pads, rods and cones running up through each enclosure so they can (should) be stacked like this. This makes it take up less space given how vast each element is":
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5913/hifipix4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/hifipix4.jpg/)
"The Goldmund Reference turntable, disappointingly highlighting the loss of one of the illumination bulbs in the control panel :-( You can also see the side of the REL Studio subwoofer I forgot to mention in the list of kit":
A closeup of the control panel, lower row controls the TT upper the arm:
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5569/hifipix7.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/hifipix7.jpg/)
"The headshell and Ortofon Jubilee":
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1232/hifipix8.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/510/hifipix8.jpg/)
Very nice indeed, Frank!! :respect:
What about speakers? :)
Marco.
holy moly - superb Frank! :stalks:
A Picture or two explains a thousand words for sure, very very nice, fancy taking it to Scalford next year :eyebrows:
mmm... Goldmund Reference TT :drool: - who do I have to kill to get one? :eyebrows:
tannoy man
13-11-2011, 11:36
Fuck me, Goldmund in Wales, sweet;)
Last time I looked, Wantage (Frank's manor) was in Oxfordshire, daftee... ;)
Marco.
ComradeSaigon
13-11-2011, 12:43
Last time I spoke to Frank in Wales, he was saving up for a Greek holiday.
What is going on??
macvisual
13-11-2011, 12:49
Orgasmic
Last time I spoke to Frank in Wales, he was saving up for a Greek holiday.
What is going on??
Who's this "Frank in Wales"? The one here says he's from Wantage, which is in Oxfordshire!
I'm not aware of a Wantage that's in Wales........
Marco.
tannoy man
13-11-2011, 13:35
Last time I looked, Wantage (Frank's manor) was in Oxfordshire, daftee... ;)
Marco.
I've got a cold, and I'm full of Co-codamol so please excuse my numtiness:(
No worries, Paul... You're not alone though, as Minh appears to have this Welsh thing going on, too! :scratch:
Get well soon :cool:
Marco.
More pics from Frank....
"Tripod pix, one of which shows why it is difficult to get near for all my clutter..."
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2078/hifipix1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/hifipix1.jpg/)
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/2185/hifipix2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/hifipix2.jpg/)
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6536/hifipix.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/hifipix.jpg/)
Marco.
awesome another DAT lover :)
Spectral Morn
13-11-2011, 16:38
Amazing system Frank.
Thank you for posting the photos and to Marco for helping re the technical side of things.
Regards D S D L
ComradeSaigon
13-11-2011, 19:45
Respect Frank!
Wow - that's an impressive looking system! :eek:
I would say that perhaps it's not a good idea to position a sub-woofer (those speakers look as though they should'nt need it) next to the turntable. But then the turntable is so massive, it probably is not troubled at all - it looks as though it required a fork lift truck to install it!
I approve of the clutter. My listening room looks like that. :lol:
Reid Malenfant
13-11-2011, 19:57
Holy crap :stalks: :stalks: :stalks: :stalks: :stalks:
Way to go sir, that is one hell of a nice system :cool:
I'm lost for more words....
Wow - that's an impressive looking system! :eek:
I would say that perhaps it's not a good idea to position a sub-woofer (those speakers look as though they should'nt need it) next to the turntable. But then the turntable is so massive, it probably is not troubled at all - it looks as though it required a fork lift truck to install it!
I approve of the clutter. My listening room looks like that. :lol:
Hi Barry,
the Goldmund has a very effective isolation system, but I only use the subwoofer for movies, it is not even connected at present.
You are quite right, they are unnecessary for music since the Epilog 2s are level down to 26Hz and the in room FR goes down at least to 20Hz, the lowest test tone I have.
cheers,
Frank
A Picture or two explains a thousand words for sure, very very nice, fancy taking it to Scalford next year :eyebrows:
This is not the first time I have had the suggestion of Scalford. The problem is really weight. The TT weighs about 100Kg and takes a -long- time to dismantle pack and re-set-up. It comes in 2 splendid packing cases, with a separate big box for the arm and the table frame separately. It has to be comprehensively dismantled to go in the cases. The speakers are about 120Kg each too, and big.
The power amps are 70kg each. And so forth, its never going to happen!
cheers,
Frank
Last time I spoke to Frank in Wales, he was saving up for a Greek holiday.
What is going on??
Wrong Frank, I fear. I have never been to Greece and hardly ever had a holiday. My eldest daughter lives at Llangoed on Anglesey though.
cheers,
Frank
Reid Malenfant
13-11-2011, 21:10
This is not the first time I have had the suggestion of Scalford. The problem is really weight. The TT weighs about 100Kg and takes a -long- time to dismantle pack and re-set-up. It comes in 2 splendid packing cases, with a separate big box for the arm and the table frame separately. It has to be comprehensively dismantled to go in the cases. The speakers are about 120Kg each too, and big.
The power amps are 70kg each. And so forth, its never going to happen!
cheers,
Frank
Hope you never need to move house Frank :eyebrows:
Like you say, Scalford with this kit is a nightmare unless you have lots of people on hand & a good plan ;)
I don't think I'd even consider it in all honesty..
This is not the first time I have had the suggestion of Scalford. The problem is really weight. The TT weighs about 100Kg and takes a -long- time to dismantle pack and re-set-up. It comes in 2 splendid packing cases, with a separate big box for the arm and the table frame separately. It has to be comprehensively dismantled to go in the cases. The speakers are about 120Kg each too, and big.
The power amps are 70kg each. And so forth, its never going to happen!
cheers,
Frank
I can see that now from the second set of pictures and get a scale on things :stalks:, it would need a team of roadies and a big van.
Thanks for the pics anyway
ComradeSaigon
13-11-2011, 21:49
Impressive system Sir,
I only see pictures of Goldmund resides in rich HongKong/(asian) audiophile houses.
Can you tell me how that Goldmund TT's linear tonearm works.
Many thanks.
Impressive system Sir,
I only see pictures of Goldmund resides in rich HongKong/(asian) audiophile houses.
Can you tell me how that Goldmund TT's linear tonearm works.
Many thanks.
The T3f arm is a gimbal arm mounted on a small trolley running on ball race "wheels" along a precision track. A fixed arm is attached to the trolley alongside the arm proper, with a sensor sensing where the headshell is. A servo system moves the trolley inwards to keep the arm tangential. The big benefit over most tangential arms is the low effective mass of the gimbal arm, the downside is there is a small band of tracking error possible, though much less than a pivoted arm.
Hi Frank,
You are quite right, they are unnecessary for music since the Epilog 2s are level down to 26Hz and the in room FR goes down at least to 20Hz, the lowest test tone I have.
Any chance of a proper, close-up, picture of the Epilogs? They look rather intriguing! :)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
13-11-2011, 22:36
Frank, I reckon you should read up about the Terminator tone arm ;) It floats on air & is tangential with zero friction due to the air support :)
Still I can't get to grips with the stuff you have there, but if you are after the best & last little bit to hone your system.....
Have a pleasant evening ;)
Some pics of Frank's epilogs:
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3194/hifipix11.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/hifipix11.jpg/)
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8509/hifipix21.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/507/hifipix21.jpg/)
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2199/hifipix31.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/510/hifipix31.jpg/)
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2208/hifipix41.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/hifipix41.jpg/)
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7585/hifipix5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/hifipix5.jpg/)
From Frank:
"The Epilog 1 can be used as a full range speaker, and I did before the Epilog 2 became available. There is a crossover in the Epilog 2 which splits the signal such that only >160Hz goes to the Epilog 1.
The Epilog 2 addition is mainly greater power handling in the bass. The Epilog 1 is a most unassuming unit with astonishing sound quality and the Epilog 2 adds surprisingly little to the sound, though it looks much more imposing:-)
The Epilog 1 has the tweeter time aligned with the woofer, and controlled directivity using felt.
The Epilog 2 has 4 units bolted face-to-face through the front panel in the so-called isobaric principle. The speakers are fully machined and sealed using O-ring material".
Lurvely.... :wow: :wow:
Marco.
jandl100
15-11-2011, 10:07
Awesome, Frank, absolutely awesome. :stalks:
I found myself laughing with amazement when scanning down those photos!
Jealous? Me? ... Naaaah! ;)
That is a system I do not want to hear - I'd probably get home afterwards and just take mine down to the recycling tip! :lol:
jandl100
15-11-2011, 10:27
I'm lost for more words....
Now that takes some doing! :eyebrows:
The Black Adder
15-11-2011, 18:51
Nora Batty...! Mega stuff! Love it!
ComradeSaigon
15-11-2011, 21:34
I never liked big bass down to 20Hz. They often sound slow, unless you listening though headphone. But at the show Neat Acoustic speaker made in same principle as your Isobaric (But not ugly as yours Frank) they really fast and cohesive.
Reid Malenfant
15-11-2011, 21:47
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7585/hifipix5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/hifipix5.jpg/)
The Epilog 2 has 4 units bolted face-to-face through the front panel in the so-called isobaric principle. The speakers are fully machined and sealed using O-ring material".
Like it, I'm lovng it :)
Those bass units don't look small, at a guess 10 - 12" units which should make a bit of noise ;) Fair bit of radiating area along with reflex loading done right should be very interesting indeed. Half size box due to isobaric loading...
Who gives a monkeys about ugly, & I don't agree with that by the way, engineering wise & sound quality wise they should do the business :eyebrows:
Powerful amp needed though to get up & go...
I never liked big bass down to 20Hz. They often sound slow, unless you listening though headphone. But at the show Neat Acoustic speaker made in same principle as your Isobaric (But not ugly as yours Frank) they really fast and cohesive.
I quite agree in general. No bass is preferable to overbearing bass!
The two aspects of the Epilogs I noticed straight away were the exceptional reproduction of timbre and the clean, unbolted but extended bass. I have still not heard better speakers in these 2 (v important to me) parameters.
cheers
Like it, I'm lovng it :)
Those bass units don't look small, at a guess 10 - 12" units which should make a bit of noise ;) Fair bit of radiating area along with reflex loading done right should be very interesting indeed. Half size box due to isobaric loading...
Who gives a monkeys about ugly, & I don't agree with that by the way, engineering wise & sound quality wise they should do the business :eyebrows:
Powerful amp needed though to get up & go...
I haven't tried a lower power amp with the Epilogs, but when I first had a home demo of the DeVialet amplifier the Jon from OAC was astonished how efficient they were.
The box is -very- big...
Hello Frank :)
Very interested in your speakers and I’ve got some questions.
I see the mid and high range drivers can be moved to bring the drivers into proper vertical alignment. Is this something you did and if so, how did you arrive at the correct placement?
My next question is something that’s bugged me for quite a while and its to do with the apparently common practice of recording engineers bringing up the bass frequency in the mixing process to compensate for the average performance of loudspeaker bass response.
Many domestic speakers roll off at somewhere below say 100Hz. Mine, for example, roll off at around 55Hz at approximately 1db per Hz down to 20Hz where the ABR kicks in.
Given there are very few speakers capable of flat performance at 26Hz, which yours apparently can manage, I wondered if you notice the extra bass in some/any recordings?
Do you know what the polar response is for your speakers at say 200 Hz and1000Hz?
Great idea having the bass drivers hanging out the back of the enclosure especially when you have a pair with rather large magnets and power handling capability; much easier to keep cool and manage the impedance change at the crossover.
Lastly, Is that rug in the pictures an Afghanistan woolen rug? Sry to be so nosy but I’ve got a thing about rugs.
Reid Malenfant
17-11-2011, 17:38
Don't forget there are two more bass drivers inside the bass enclosure John, they are Isobaric :)
Yep, 4 per box ;)
But even so I'm assuming that having one of each pair out in the open so to speak must have some bearing on the cooling.
Perhaps it doesn't.
Got to love all the allen bolts. Proper engineering.
Reid Malenfant
17-11-2011, 18:16
I think you are probably correct on the cooling thing John. I get the impression that the driver chassis are bolted together rather than either side of the baffle. With them being cast alloy you can picture them carrying the heat just like a heatsink to the coolest point, EI externally ;)
Hello Frank :)
Very interested in your speakers and I’ve got some questions.
I see the mid and high range drivers can be moved to bring the drivers into proper vertical alignment. Is this something you did and if so, how did you arrive at the correct placement?
My next question is something that’s bugged me for quite a while and its to do with the apparently common practice of recording engineers bringing up the bass frequency in the mixing process to compensate for the average performance of loudspeaker bass response.
Many domestic speakers roll off at somewhere below say 100Hz. Mine, for example, roll off at around 55Hz at approximately 1db per Hz down to 20Hz where the ABR kicks in.
Given there are very few speakers capable of flat performance at 26Hz, which yours apparently can manage, I wondered if you notice the extra bass in some/any recordings?
Do you know what the polar response is for your speakers at say 200 Hz and1000Hz?
Great idea having the bass drivers hanging out the back of the enclosure especially when you have a pair with rather large magnets and power handling capability; much easier to keep cool and manage the impedance change at the crossover.
Lastly, Is that rug in the pictures an Afghanistan woolen rug? Sry to be so nosy but I’ve got a thing about rugs.
Hi John,
I haven't experimented with the alignment of the Epilog1 on the Epilog 2, despite the considerable adjustment provision. The supplying dealer installed them over 2 days and set the cabinets then.
A friend of mine who is a consultant speaker designer has listened and measured them, noticing that one of the tweeters was connected out of phase, which he corrected, and that the Epilog 2 was connected OOF with the Epilog 1. We experimented with this by reversing the connecting cable at one end but I ended up going back to standard.
I don't know the polar response of the speakers, I'm afraid, but the listening room acoustics are much less imposed on the sound than they had been with the Apogee Diva active speakers I used before, as one would expect.
I have not noticed excessive bass on well recorded issues, however recording quality is extremely varied. I do not subscribe to the view that digital recording has improved greatly over the last 20 years, based on my experience. Some of my very best digital recordings are amongst the earliest I bought and the worst I bought this year.
I don't know much about rugs, I'm afraid but I have bought a few I liked!
Frank
I think you are probably correct on the cooling thing John. I get the impression that the driver chassis are bolted together rather than either side of the baffle. With them being cast alloy you can picture them carrying the heat just like a heatsink to the coolest point, EI externally ;)
Hi Mark,
the front baffle of the bass speaker is aluminium, like the other panels. The bass units are mounted either side of this baffle but fixed using the same bolts, which go through all three. There is an O-ring seal between each.
There used to be drawings and assembly pictures on the Goldmund web site but it has been changed and I can't find them any more.
Frank
Reid Malenfant
18-11-2011, 17:06
Hi Mark,
the front baffle of the bass speaker is aluminium, like the other panels. The bass units are mounted either side of this baffle but fixed using the same bolts, which go through all three. There is an O-ring seal between each.
Even better, you have the front baffle as a heatsink to :eyebrows:
Cool, pardon the pun ;)
They’re an interesting design. Aluminum plate for the enclosure which kind of makes one wonder about all this box tuning with wood malarkey one reads about.
Super stiff non resonant enclosures. Adjustable ports. Really complicated crossover with just about every type of filter known to man. In fact just about everything that many audiophiles would throw their hands up in horror at.
Maybe my enclosure ideas aren’t quite so daft after all. Course, someone is bound to say they wont sound as good as a few bits of quarter beech ply or MDF carefully tuned by ear at the factory, preferably with a couple of oil filled caps and oxygen free flat form copper chokes chucked in.
26Hz flat…..cor, I’ll have some of that :eek:
They’re an interesting design. Aluminum plate for the enclosure which kind of makes one wonder about all this box tuning with wood malarkey one reads about.
Super stiff non resonant enclosures. Adjustable ports. Really complicated crossover with just about every type of filter known to man. In fact just about everything that many audiophiles would throw their hands up in horror at.
Maybe my enclosure ideas aren’t quite so daft after all. Course, someone is bound to say they wont sound as good as a few bits of quarter beech ply or MDF carefully tuned by ear at the factory, preferably with a couple of oil filled caps and oxygen free flat form copper chokes chucked in.
26Hz flat…..cor, I’ll have some of that :eek:
I have built a few speakers, but it was a few years ago. My friend, OTOH makes a business of it and has done lots of computer modelling and listening tests to -many- prototypes.
It seems to me self-evident that -any- sound emanating from the enclosure, or stand, or floor if the speaker is exciting it via its mounting can NOT be accurate. There will be delays and other incompatibilities, and whilst it may either trial-and-error tuned by ear (very expensive requiring lots of snake oil) or modelled (very difficult so not many are capable of doing it) any radiation from the cabinet will not be sufficiently closely related to the amp signal at the speaker terminals, hence inaccurate, though some may like the sound it makes.
I don't think it is easy to get accurate sound from bi-polar panels either because the acoustics of the listening room are unavoidably added to the sound field. It does sound nice and sometimes impressive but again not closely related to the amp signal at the speaker terminals.
I have not heard speakers to match the Goldmunds yet. I would like to audition the Magico Q5 which looks sensible to me.
Frank
Reid Malenfant
18-11-2011, 20:12
Frank, do you mind me asking what chassis size those bass drivers are? You see I have recently been modelling a few drivers in certain enclosures & I have a pretty good idea of the SPL obtainable from a certain driver size down to about 25Hz.
It'd be interesting to know the chassis size simply to have a rough idea of the output possible at that sort of frequency :) Or should I say I'd have a good idea how much you could shake yourself :lol:
Frank, do you mind me asking what chassis size those bass drivers are? You see I have recently been modelling a few drivers in certain enclosures & I have a pretty good idea of the SPL obtainable from a certain driver size down to about 25Hz.
It'd be interesting to know the chassis size simply to have a rough idea of the output possible at that sort of frequency :) Or should I say I'd have a good idea how much you could shake yourself :lol:
Hi the bass speaker uses 4 8" units as back-to-back pairs.
Reid Malenfant
19-11-2011, 16:51
Oh, they looked a tad bigger than that :scratch:
Pretty hefty chassis for an 8" if so ;)
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