Tuned speaker cabinets?

[The Grand Wazoo]

The thin walled speakers like Spendors, Harbeths etc are one thing, but what do people make of the Bosendorfer speakers? I've never seen or heard them, but they seem to be well liked by those who have.

However, they seem to break all the rules, not least because they have elements that are designed to fire at a slab of wood that is supposed to flap about in sympathy.

From the technical page (http://www.bosendorfer-audio.co.uk/technical_info.html) of their website:

The main goal of conventional technology is the elimination of resonances by heavy damping and flattening of the frequency curve by powerful crossover filtering. This pays surprisingly little regard for the sound itself. Unfortunately, no difference is made between undesirable and desirable resonances.

The basic acoustic principle remains: Without resonances, there cannot be lifelike sound. Music is played by instruments; hence authentic sound reproduction must also require instruments featuring harmonious resonances. While conventional loudspeakers produce illusions, they fail to sound lifelike, since all resonances have been eliminated.

Bösendorfer loudspeakers are instruments in themselves. Of course they don’t employ active resonators with instrument-specific sounds, as musical instruments do, but instead they use passive resonators, creating a neutral sound.


One would have thought that these folks might know a thing or two about what sounds right & what doesn't, & also how large expanses of timber behave when excited by sound waves.

Any views or observations anyone?

[Barry]

An interesting thread Chris.

Whilst I admire the boldness and free thinking displayed by Bosendorfer, I do have suspicions of any audio product that is marketed as "an instrument".

All audio equipment should be entirely neutral and without any character of its own. This may make for a 'dull' or 'sterile' sound but anything with 'character', whilst initially attractive, will soon pall and be seen (or should I say, heard) as false.

Instruments are what make the music; audio equipment should do nothing but relay it unadorned: warts and all.

"The truth will out", as the saying goes.

[bobbasrah]

Good grief....
Just skimmed quickly through the 40 page brochure, ports that are not ports, resonances maintained but undesirable resonances rejected, panels that resonate but are inert, acoustic antennae, HD, LED's, NASA, steel frame ????....... This has to either be a revolutionary design incorporating the best that science has to offer, or a deliberate european ploy to have the chinese waste months trying to copy the flux capacitor ?? It's not even April 1st..... WOW....
Not going back to try reading it properly without a stiff caffeine injection or two. No prices on the UK site that I saw, but I guess this is megabucks stuff, and not exactly likely to be a DIY project ....
A pity Citroen already grabbed the "Creative Technology" tagline (a phrase which translates to C5 owners as "FFS what now?" )

[Ammonite Audio]

I heard these at a show a few years back, and with classical music (piano/chamber/ensemble rather than full-blown orchestral) the 'colouration' added by the resonant elements of the design appears to work well, but it's an added and pleasant artifice, not a representation of the true recording. Things start to fall apart when more dynamic music is played, so this is very much a speaker aimed at those who like gentle classical music, rather than rock. I really did want to like them, but concluded that here is a solution looking for a problem.

[Reid Malenfant]

<snip> Good grief....
Just skimmed quickly through the 40 page brochure, ports that are not ports, resonances maintained but undesirable resonances rejected, panels that resonate but are inert
Yes I noticed that one to :lolsign:I loved the way they said these "horns" filter out the upper frequencies & only allow sub 130Hz to pass....

I think it was clearest on the wall mounted speaker with the so called "horn loading" supplied by what looked suspiciously like a pair of slot ports at the very back top & bottom ;)

I really did have to laugh when it was suggested that if a lighter was placed near to these you'd see them in action on bass notes :rolleyes: Well I never, I couldn't have imagined that :D


It sounds like bullsh*t attempting to baffle (pardon the pun) brains...


I wouldn't even bother to listen knowing the scientific reasoning behind them :whistle:

[bobbasrah]

Agreed there is a lot of bull and gobbledegook but logic appears "between the lines" or my crystal meth just run out.
Irrespective of the science behind it, indeed above, below, in-front, to the sides, and even that dimension which dare not be named, I just do not understand the explanation, or why they would have developed it in the first place. There again, I'm thick...
The only member who has heard them. Hugo, I thought summed it up nice and politely, "a solution looking for a problem".

PS - Mark, at least the candle thingy is scientific from a UU perspective. As was previously screened by Bose on TV to demo their asbestos drives, sound waves from a tweeter are transparent so the flame doesn't detect them, but from a bass unit they bend light causing the candle flame to back off by way of self preservation.
At least we know now the same pyromaniac PR firm is involved in the script of both companies...

Ah well, time to turn on the dark again....

[The Grand Wazoo]

I wouldn't even bother to listen knowing the scientific reasoning behind them :whistle:

So you would walk away, rather than take a listen out of interest?
I just find it interesting that despite seeming to break what seem to be hard and fast rules, they do seem to be liked by those who've spent time with them and they've have also had favourable reviews.

[Reid Malenfant]

Chris, if anyone attempts to pass off a slot port as some form of horn loading then it honestly deserves ridicule ;) You only need to take a look at Speedy Steves rear loaded horns to know what a horn should look like.

A horn uses a mathematical calculated gradual expansion to act like a form of air impedance transformer which effectively couples the high pressure movement of a diaphram to a much low pressure larger movement of air.

There are various forms of horns. Tractrix, exponential, hyperbolic, conical & no doubt a few others. But none of them look like a slot port flat against a wall :eyebrows:

So I guess that yes, I'd walk away without bothering to listen to something that has been explained by gobbledegook ;)

Hope that helps.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Mark, I know what a horn is, mate.
Sorry I asked.

[Reid Malenfant]

Mark, I know what a horn is, mate.
Sorry I asked.
Apologies Chris but I thought I'd better explain my reasoning fully given the direct nature of your question :)

I didn't mean to cause any offence...

[jandl100]

I heard these at a show a few years back, and with classical music (piano/chamber/ensemble rather than full-blown orchestral) the 'colouration' added by the resonant elements of the design appears to work well, but it's an added and pleasant artifice, not a representation of the true recording.

Urk. :stalks: You have to be joking! :doh::eyebrows:

I love my classical choons - and the Bosendorfer speakers I heard at a Show were totally, almost awe-inspiringly, awful.

Colouration is colouration in my book - I don't think there is a good kind!

And those Bosendorkers (sic) were decidedly, ridiculously unpleasant.
A truly flawed design, imho. :nono:

[goraman]

They look like something Bose would do.
Dose it have a wave guide?

I'm sure an effeminate room designer would love them.
There very stylish.
But with out having heard a pair,it's not possible to have a real opinion.

[jandl100]

I'm sure an effeminate room designer would love them.
There very stylish.

What? Frank? :scratch:

Nah, not his style of speaker at all. :nono:

:eyebrows:

[f1eng]

I am not a fan of any speaker that uses a bit of cabinet radiation to add to the sound. However tuned it is it is always likely to colour the sound, however nicely.
If taken to its extreme with a low mass radiating panel and -no- drive units (i.e. NXT) it can be surprisingly transparent if the "cabinet" material is appropriately chosen and the exciters (drive units) properly positioned. But you need the maths to be right, not something for trial and error.
Frank

[goraman]

I am not a fan of any speaker that uses a bit of cabinet radiation to add to the sound. However tuned it is it is always likely to colour the sound, however nicely.
If taken to its extreme with a low mass radiating panel and -no- drive units (i.e. NXT) it can be surprisingly transparent if the "cabinet" material is appropriately chosen and the exciters (drive units) properly positioned. But you need the maths to be right, not something for trial and error.
Frank

Frank, really who cares if it is transparent or not, today's music is mixed,colored,compressed, equalized and voice processed.

A little coloration from your speakers is going to matter after all that?

[jandl100]

Frank, really who cares if it is transparent or not, today's music is mixed,colored,compressed, equalized and voice processed.

A little coloration from your speakers is going to matter after all that?

Well ... you might not think that if you hear the Bosendorfer speakers - they really are very coloured - a sort of plummy thrummy opaqueness is laid over everything it does.

I guess some folks might like it, but I certainly couldn't live with them.