Bifrost Dac - any opinions?

[Domberlin]

I read anout this new DAC here:


I pre-ordered a Schiit Bifrost (without USB option) and hope it shall arrive in my home in the first week of October.


So I wonder, how is it and how does it compare to the caiman?

@Werner, seems like you have received one already, what are your thoughts on it?


It is definitely a goodlooking little box - sorry I am ignorant when it comes to DACs. I just have good ears, looking for the best affordable option for me.

[twelvebears]

Looks interesting but am I the only person who has a problem buying something 'Schiit'? :lolsign:

[Covenant]

Looks interesting but am I the only person who has a problem buying something 'Schiit'? :lolsign:

Yes-I would like to buy Schiit products because it would annoy my wife who hates swearing!:lolsign:

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Schiit bifrost ...
Sounds like a very uncomfortable enema
No body like a Poo-cicle!

[Werner Berghofer]

seems like you have received one already, what are your thoughts on it?

It’s an excellent DAC, build quality and design are outstanding – and this is what I expected since I got my Schiit Valhalla headphone amplifier a few months ago.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/headfun.jpg

The Bifrost’s sound is very natural, relaxed, full of fine details. It doesn’t sound digital at all, the music’s just there, right between my ears, and the room the music is being played in sounds wide and deep. I use the Bifrost together with the Valhalla amplifier on my headphone listening place. I still operate two Beresford Caiman DACs in my home; one on my desk and the other one in the living room, and I’m still quite happy with them.

But for headphone listening in my opinion the full Schiit combination Valhalla amp plus Bifrost DAC raised my listening experience to a new level.

In case you’re interested: more from my system can be seen in this thread. (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11546&page=4)

Werner.

[roob]

Some users on this forum
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Schiit-Bifrost-DAC

nr the bottom

[Werner Berghofer]

Dominique,


how does it compare to the caiman?

[yesterday I’ve been asked exactly the same question on Head-Fi. Here’s my reply.]

Since it’s difficult for me to describe sound and music in English (not my native language) I’ll concentrate more on the clearly visible outside facts.

Build quality and design of the Schiit Bifrost are on a very different level than the Beresford DAC. The Beresford feels and looks cheap compared to the Bifrost’s massive metal housing. I also like that the Bifrost does not use an external power supply. The power button and the input selection push-buttons on the front of the Beresford sometimes are difficult to operate; there’s a certain point which one has to hit exactly, otherwise the buttons simply won’t react.

For its price the performance of the latest Beresford DAC (gatorized Caiman) is very good, and it offers more input connections than the Bifrost: two BNC inputs, one USB and one Toslink. I have two Beresford DACs with two BNC and two Toslink inputs (don’t need USB), but I don’t think that this special configuration is still available. Since there are two line-outs (fixed and variable) on the Beresford, it can be used as a preamp. It even has a headphone output with decent performance (depening on your headphones), but it shouldn’t be compared to a true stand-alone headphone amplifier. The Beresford’s volume knob feels light and cheap compared to the Valhalla’s volume knob, which offers a great tactile feedback while turning it.

I still use two Beresford DACs in my home in systems for loudspeaker playback, but for headphone listening I certainly do prefer the Bifrost/Valhalla combination. The Bifrost’s detail resolution is excellent, there’s more muscle, grunt and power (but this may be due to the Valhalla amplifier). When listening with the Bifrost and Valhalla, after a few minutes I forget to look for new layers of detail and instrument separation (which of course are there), but simply get lost in the music instead. Think this is the best one can say about equipment built for music playback.

Werner.

[Domberlin]

Thanks for your advice, Werner.

The BIFROST seems to be the right DAC for me and it is already on it's way.

So I am greatly anticipating my first testrun.

All I have read about the BIFROST has been very positive, actually all I have read about SCHIIT products has been very promissing.

[Domberlin]

So the Bifrost arrived today and I already wrote a few of my first impressions in the Slimdevices forum. So here is my story:

Intro:
I have been wanting to upgrade my Squeezebox sound for quite a while now.
First upgrade was going from a Duet receiver to the Touch - which made a difference. But I was still not satisfied with the sound and detail etc.
To really listen to music, I still used my NAD CD 545, which sounds great in my combo. Therefore I was looking for a DAC which would take the Touch to the level of my CDplayer. Since then I have been searching and reading, nearly bought the Beresford, but then found the Bifrost on the net when a gutfeeling told me to finally take a dive and buy this new DAC.

Unboxing:
It arrived today, so my impressions are very new.
It looks beautiful and has a very sturdy build. It cost me about 360 Euros including shipping to germany and taxes, customs etc.

Plugged it in and put on music I had just listened to yesterday and which I am familiar with. Beware this is not the sort of detailed A-B comparison, just an emotional report - and to me the emotions I get through music are most important.
I had hoped for a little difference, but boy was I in for a (positive) shock. First piece I put on was "The Lark Ascending" with Nicola Benedetti, the violin was sailing high and light between my speakers, rich detail up to the highest notes, sounds stupid - but here it is, it sounded as if the violin was in my livingroom, none of the harshness I had with the Touch. Loads of detail, but the violin still sounded warm and did not loose body.
Next Holst Planets the Levine recording (underrated great sounding recording)What went on during Mars, was unbelievable and very satisfying. The orchestra in full blow, amazing soundstage, very clear (without being irritating) the bass really tight. I have never heard my stereo like this.
It really sounds as if a veil was lifted and everyting is now in a next level. Went on with some 24bit Beatles, Yesterday and SGT Pepper never sounded so alive and let's call it real.
Long story short, I am very happy that I waited for the Bifrost to arrive.
Problem is, now my CDplayer sounds dull in comparison - so I will also connected it to my DAC.

I am not a believer of Burn-in, but there are quite a few people that write that DACs begin to sound a lot better after burn-in. All I can say,is that it sounds amazing out of the box - so should it sound even better after a couple of days or weeks, I am all for it - should it stay the same, it is already much better than I had hoped for.

I am really grateful for Werner making me aware of the Bifrost in this forum, he wrote it sounds even more detailed than the Caiman Gator, I have never heard it myself. But the Bifrost is definitely an amazing DAC sounding and looking a lot better than it's price.

[Werner Berghofer]

Dominique,


he wrote it sounds even more detailed than the Caiman Gator

not only *does* the Bifrost indeed sound more detailed and simply “better” than the Caiman: certain very low level disturbing noises and a special kind of “pumping” (can be heard best on meditative piano music with long pauses between the notes) are not present when comparing the Bifrost to the Caiman. These noises only are recognizable when listening very closely and observant via headphones, on loudspeakers they’re not audible. I tried this with all three Caiman DACs in my home, and they all show identical symptoms.

I already ordered a second Schiit Bifrost, a Schiit Lyr headphone amplifier (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=3) and a set of active KRK monitors (http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/rokit/rokit-5.html) to replace the Caiman → iTube valve amp → Q Acoustic loudspeakers chain used in my desktop audio system.

Glad to read that the Bifrost eventually has found its place in your stereo setup, Dominique! For a price of € 360,– including taxes it’s hard to find a better DAC in my opinion.

Werner.

[dave2010]

Werner

This talk of the Bifrost is very interesting, and it is beginning to sound as though I should get one. One concern for me is whether to use USB or not.

This is for several reasons. Firstly, some people seem to think that USB might deliver better results. I don't know, but if it does, then it would make sense to use USB. On the other hand, the Bifrost web page suggests that SPDIF is better. If the USB is lower quality, then it's probably worth saving the extra $100 and not having it, but otoh .... (flexibility ... !!).

For me, if I were to use USB, then I'd almost certainly also have to set up a computer (say a Mac Mini) nearby, as otherwise it wouldn't work - the computer which has my music library attached is currently in another room, and there's no way it's going in the living room.

I am thinking of doing this longer term anyway (maybe 6 months - see what then next model Mac Mini brings), but not immediately.

If SPDIF is the way to go, then I can do that from my Squeezebox.

Comments on whether the USB is good, and whether it's worth having, would be appreciated.

[Werner Berghofer]

Dave,


Comments on whether the USB is good, and whether it's worth having, would be appreciated.

within the next few days the second Bifrost unit shall arive in my home. This one will have the USB option installed, and I’ll do some serious A/B comparision of playback quality.

At least to my ears the Beresford Caiman+ I used before in my office playback system did sound exactly the same, no matter if it was connected via USB or Toslink to my computer, so I decided to use the Toslink connection because I think it’s more convenient to use on a Mac and doesn’t waste an USB port.

Werner.

[Ali Tait]

I'll be interested in your opinions also Werner, I'm thinking about one of these dacs, as you know, and I'd be using it via USB.

[roob]

A well implemented usb interface will provide excellent results..
I have just had a XMOS async usb interface fitted to my dac, it is galvanicaly isolated and uses a 5v power supply from the dac not the computer and it sounds bloody marvellous.
The usb inputs on many dacs usually budget models leave a lot to be desired hence the reason spdif sounds better on those models.

[Ali Tait]

I use a Sony mp3 player in the car, connected via USB. TBH, it sounds just as good as the cd player.

[Tim]

I use a Sony mp3 player in the car, connected via USB. TBH, it sounds just as good as the cd player.
Slightly off topic, but I have USB in the car too and a 320kbps file played from a USB flash drive sounds far superior than the CD player - in fact there is quite a difference :scratch:

[Ali Tait]

Yes, that's what I use too. Sounds great via the Bose 10 speaker sound system! :lol:

[wee tee cee]

The bifrost sounds like good schiit.....
Having read some posts on the beast , it would appear that they're usb implementation sounds better than a v link with a quality co-ax in place.I am very interested in this dac.

I run mf m1/mf v-link with a mark grant trico/wtb co-ax.
The mf combo sounds better if your using usb , if I could take it out the the chain....all the better.
NO UPSAMPLING?
Tony.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


NO UPSAMPLING?

yes, by intention. The Bifrost’s designers have very explicit opinions regarding upsampling DACs.

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Tony,



yes, by intention. The Bifrost’s designers have very explicit opinions regarding upsampling DACs.

Werner.Werner,
I'm Interested to know how the dac sounds in your main system.
Tony.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


I'm Interested to know how the dac sounds in your main system.

currently Bifrost #1 is part of my headphone listening system, and Bifrost #2 will be used together with a Schiit Lyr headphone amplifier and a 2.1 set of powered KRK speakers on the desktop in my office. This setup will replace the Beresford Caiman+, the Fatman iTube hybrid amplifier and the passive 2.1 Q Acoustics speakers.

What do you consider my main system? The Yamaha AX-592 integrated amplifier, driving the floor-standing Triangle Zays ZX speakers upstairs in the living room? Most of my time I spend in my office, but the most intense and attentive listening takes place when wearing headphones and sitting in my chair, and this was the first occasion where the difference between the Beresford Caiman+ and the Schiit Bifrost became clearly audible.

It’s a well-known effect and experience which happens every time an element in an audio chain is replaced by a better unit: Suddenly one notices details which have never been heard before. For example, on the track “Within You Without You” on “Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” there’s a certain moment after a longer Sitar part where George Harrison’s rhythmic breathing can be heard. I used to believe that I know this CD really good, but two weeks ago I heard Harrison’s breathing in this track for the first time.

Sound is difficult to describe in words. Compared to the Caiman the Bifrost sounds much more “natural”. The bass is not that voluminous as with the Caiman, but to me the Caiman’s bass sometimes sounded exaggerated, somehow pressed with a slight tendency to distort. The bass is very present in the Bifrost (assumed it is present in the recording), but it sounds much more natural and feels as if it was reproduced effortlessly in comparision with the Beresford.

Well, what else can I say? I like this DAC that much that is has already replaced two Caiman DACs in the three playback chains I have in my home. If the Schiit Bifrost was available in black, I would wait no longer and add a third unit to my living room’s system which consists of only black boxes :-) The system in my living room may be the most powerful overall, but my desktop system and the headphone listening place is used more frequently.

I shall add new photos from my system (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11546) when all components for my desktop system will have arrived in my home. Stay tuned. If you’re interested to read what others have to say about the Schiit Bifrost DAC I recommend to study → this thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-the-information-and-anticipation-thread) on Head-Fi.

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Werner,
I have been following that thread you linked to for some time..very interesting.
I have all my gear in the cellar constantly switched on,does the bifrost run hot.
I dont fancy unintentional underfloor heating.
Tony.

[Werner Berghofer]

Tony,


does the bifrost run hot

no, definitely not. The Schiit headphone amplifiers run quite hot after a while, but the Bifrost DAC gets only a little warmer when used. Jason Stoddard, co-founder of Schiit, confirmed that it’s no problem to stack DAC and headphone amplifier as long as the headphone amplifier is placed on top.

Werner.

[Domberlin]

Well I can only (once again) confirm how much the sound of my system has been improved by the Bifrost.
Had it for a little while now and it keeps surprising me with music I really thought I knew. I listen to music through speakers and not headphones, the details are amazing, there really are quite a few moments when I suddenly think there is someone in my livingroom with me, just because there are noises, like conductors groaning or stuff like that suddenly come alive, so you have the feeling there is a stranger in the room.

When I first read that it does not upsample, I also thought hmm, I don't know - but it works, it just sound natural and better than anything I have ever heard in my home - actually quite a few homes...

[Werner Berghofer]

Dominique,


the feeling there is a stranger in the room

I know this feeling vey well, it happens nearly all the time when I listen to music via the Bifrost/Valhalla combination with open headphones, and sometimes it’s even a little scary :-)

Werner.

[wee tee cee]

Thanks for going to the effort of explaining things, sounds very interesting.....might have to invest in one in the new year, their head phone amps look very good as well. A man really should have some glowing tubes in his life methinks.
Regards Tony.