View Full Version : For lovers of SPUs....
....check out this superb thread (and especially the pics) on Lenco Heaven:
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=543.0
:eek: :eek:
Marco.
Some of those TT/arm/ SPU combos are to die for....
But I note that many think the SPU is best for jazz and classical with rock best being left to more modern cartridges.
Could it be that the SPU is soft around the edges, even a little slushy? I think Marco should answer the charge!
Picked up an SPU last month, really enjoy it!
Could it be that the SPU is soft around the edges, even a little slushy? I think Marco should answer the charge!
DON'T EVEN GO THERE!!!!!!!!! :eek:
Quite exquisite but expensive I bet? Unless someone wants to swap me theirs for a GL75?
WOStantonCS100
03-11-2011, 07:39
Some of those TT/arm/ SPU combos are to die for....
But I note that many think the SPU is best for jazz and classical with rock best being left to more modern cartridges.
Could it be that the SPU is soft around the edges, even a little slushy? I think Marco should answer the charge!
DON'T EVEN GO THERE!!!!!!!!! :eek:
:doh: Oh crap, Darren, now you've done it. :) :lol:
Some of those TT/arm/ SPU combos are to die for....
But I note that many think the SPU is best for jazz and classical with rock best being left to more modern cartridges.
Could it be that the SPU is soft around the edges, even a little slushy? I think Marco should answer the charge!
Hehehe......
Lol - it's bollocks, mate! Or rather, the implication that it's a universal fact is bollocks. I can't comment on what other people have heard, as there are many variables to consider. However, it is true that the conical-tipped SPUs lose out slightly in high-frequency extension, compared to their elliptical (or further superior) tipped counterparts, but they make up for it in other areas.
Remember that EVERYTHING in audio is a compromise, including cartridges!
Another important factor is that, based on my experience to date, SPUs sound best when used with direct-drive turntables, where the latter's rather 'sober', more neutral, sonic presentation (particularly in the bass) ameliorates any 'fruity' tendencies of the SPU. Therefore, synergy is optimised. And the higher-mass the tonearm, too, the better, to keep things under control - something that is difficult to obtain these days new.
Also, and this is crucial, the true sonic performance of ANY ultra-low output moving-coil cartridge is governed by how the music signal it produces is faithfully amplified by the partnering preamp and phonostage. The fact is, you have to invest a considerable sum of money in order to really hear what a cartridge like an SPU is capable of. That tiny low-output signal it produces is so very easily corrupted!
And that's why, in my opinion, some people have found SPUs to sound 'slushy' or 'soft around the edges', simply because their phono stage/preamp is not really up to the job... And this is where high-quality SUTs come in, particularly those which have been designed specifically to match a predetermined cartridge.
The A23/SPU that I use is a case in point. It not only loads the cartridge correctly, in terms of impedance (something not all active MC phono stages do, simply because they don't have sufficient range) and provides the correct level of gain, but the step-up transformers themselves have been painstakingly selected by ear by the designer to optimise the sonic performance of the SPU.
Not only that, but the valve phono stage in my Croft preamp has been uber-tuned by me to eke out every last ounce of musical information that leaves the SPU's output pins. Therefore, all this means that in my system the SPU does not sound in any way 'slushy' or 'soft around the edges', and it plays rock music with similar aplomb as it does with jazz and classical.
Indeed, at the Scalford Hall show earlier this year, when our room was packed, and AC/DC's 'Black Ice' and Dave Lee Roth's 'Skyscraper', was playing on the Techy, rocking the room and pinning people to their seats, I don't remember any comments afterwards telling me 'Hey, Marco, that SPU's a bit slushy'!!.... :eek: :eyebrows:
In audio, context is everything, and not everything is equal! So, Darren, I hope that I've gone some way to answering the charge ;)
Marco.
Hmmm! The defence has put forward a convincing case.
After due consideration...... I bind you over to keep the peace and further sentence you to run the best hifi forum on the internet for the next twenty years or so.
More seriously, you dont consider an eliptical tipped SPU to be an upgrade to the one you have?
Yes, but I suspect not in ALL areas...
However, experience suggests that the best compromise, if one seeks to retain as much of the magic of the original SPU as possible, is the SPU Classic GM E - the elliptical stylus giving just that extra bit of detail, without compromising too much on the beguilling 'musical flow' of the conical version.
Indeed, I'm due to get one myself, or possibly a Meister Silver, along with the 9" version (shown on the left) of this baby, probably next week:
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/8646/rs212d309db.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/rs212d309db.jpg/)
Can't wait! :cool:
Marco.
And no doubt the new arm will make the jelco sound "broken....."
watch this space :cool: :lol: :gig:
Well if it wasn't better, there would be no point in buying it, would there, daftee!! :doh: ;)
You can hardly accuse me of 'box swapping'. I've had superb service from the Jelco for nearly three years. But now it's time for an upgrade :)
If anyone is interested in buying my Jelco for a good price (including Shuggie's collar), PM me, and we'll do a deal. However, it will be getting advertised properly shortly, via the usual channels.
Marco.
I was thinking after my last post (loads of things, but this one in particular...). I suppose the Ortofon arms aren't as hugely priced as I give them credit for. I mean, how much would an Ittok cost these days - It finished life around the £600 mark I believe - and at audiophool infated prices, it would be the best part of £2K now, and the Ekos is far more again, but may cost more in labour charges to manufacture if it's made over here rather than by Jelco...
By the way, the very first (but not the onlyby any means) SPU I heard was on a 301 and in an Ortofon arm - 212 I think it was :)
alfie2902
04-11-2011, 12:40
It's a great thread over on Lenco, Marco, one I've read before.
A great collection of SPUs the guy has got across there!
I'm sure you'll do your homework & have a listen to the SPU options open to you, but I find the further up the range you go the more refind the sound gets & this is a little at the cost of that SPU sound! I think it's finding the balance between refinement & SPU warmth that suits you & your system. It will be intereting what you go for.
The Ortofon arms look very nice to & are built with the SPUs in mind, so should offer you a nice upgrade. I tried my Royal on a 12" Jelco at a bake off & sounded very nice indeed, to the point where I'm thinking of re-plinthing the Denon to fit one as a 2nd arm. SPUs do sound very nice with SME 3012R though, I'm also considering one of those, not sure if funds will permit ATM though.
Hi Alfie,
I'm sure you'll do your homework & have a listen to the SPU options open to you, but I find the further up the range you go the more refind the sound gets & this is a little at the cost of that SPU sound! I think it's finding the balance between refinement & SPU warmth that suits you & your system. It will be intereting what you go for.
I totally agree, mate, so watch this space!
Some of those TT/arm/ SPU combos are to die for....
Indeed, and this in particular looks the dog's danglies...
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/205/p1090159.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/p1090159.jpg/)
That 12" Schick, with the Meister Silver on the end, is truly sex on a stick! :drool: :drool:
Marco.
Magna Audio
08-11-2011, 10:37
Great pics indeed.
i love my Silver Meister on SP-10 and 12" arms. The Schick does look great doesn't it. So clean and simple.
My 12" arms are converted Rega R200 or PL-71 with SME 3012 tube. Sounds great but as good as a Schick perhaps not.
I am having a Fidelity Research FR64S round on Thursday evening for a listen - not to buy but to hear how good that is. I did hear the very same arm on a Voyd deck with my SPU and it was great...
Hi Steve,
I completely agree with your comments on the Schick/Meister Silver combo: "clean and simple" sums it up nicely, and indeed appeals to my audio design sensibilities!
This is just gorgeous: http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4254/schick6653.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/schick6653.jpg/)
Perhaps we could have a bake-off, once my new Ortofon tonearm and SPU have been fitted to my T/T?
I suspect that I'll be going for a new Classic GM E, for reasons previously outlined, therefore a comparison with your Meister Silver, which could simply be fitted to my own T/T, would be beneficial, not to mention interesting to both of us, particularly if you'd like to hear my T/T in your system? :cool:
Marco.
Great pics indeed.
i love my Silver Meister on SP-10 and 12" arms. The Schick does look great doesn't it. So clean and simple.
My 12" arms are converted Rega R200 or PL-71 with SME 3012 tube. Sounds great but as good as a Schick perhaps not.
I am having a Fidelity Research FR64S round on Thursday evening for a listen - not to buy but to hear how good that is. I did hear the very same arm on a Voyd deck with my SPU and it was great...
Steve, you're one of those people who could buy a Lenco L75 arm for peanuts and custom make an "SME compatible, or even a fixed type of tube/knife edge for it. Then one could build a cheapo giant killer and be able to upgrade Lenco's intact and still use the bias and cueing fittings. The GL76 came with an S shaped jelco made arm I understand, although I don't think we saw them in the UK as direct drive became all the rage in the mid 70's here before Linn and Rega all but took over the lenco Thorens area of the market...
Magna Audio
08-11-2011, 11:54
Hehe - guess what. I have a L75 arm on the shelf waiting for some attention someday:)
Steve, you're one of those people who could buy a Lenco L75 arm for peanuts and custom make an "SME compatible, or even a fixed type of tube/knife edge for it. Then one could build a cheapo giant killer and be able to upgrade Lenco's intact and still use the bias and cueing fittings. The GL76 came with an S shaped jelco made arm I understand, although I don't think we saw them in the UK as direct drive became all the rage in the mid 70's here before Linn and Rega all but took over the lenco Thorens area of the market...
Beobloke
08-11-2011, 12:50
Indeed, at the Scalford Hall show earlier this year, when our room was packed, and AC/DC's 'Black Ice' and Dave Lee Roth's 'Skyscraper', was playing on the Techy, rocking the room and pinning people to their seats, I don't remember any comments afterwards telling me 'Hey, Marco, that SPU's a bit slushy'!!.... :eek: :eyebrows:
Note to self: Wander into the AoS room at Scalford 2012 and say exactly that.....
;):lolsign:
The GL76 came with an S shaped jelco made arm I understand, although I don't think we saw them in the UK as direct drive became all the rage in the mid 70's here before Linn and Rega all but took over the lenco Thorens area of the market...
There was also the L75S with a "S" shaped Jelco arm
atnHzimpDv8
Hi Steve,
Hehe - guess what. I have a L75 arm on the shelf waiting for some attention someday:)
What about my offer - are you up for a sesh or not?
Marco.
There was also the L75S with a "S" shaped Jelco arm
atnHzimpDv8
That's what I remember being called an L76, but that's the one...
Jeez, that sounds as rough as a badger's backside! :eek:
Marco.
So would your little system when mangled through you-tube :D
I didn't think the Schick arms were expensive either - certainly well under a grand I seem to recall.......
P.S. Since the man's too modest and I'm the "Shill From Hell" don't you know, HiFi Dave is now a top line Ortofon Reference dealer - go to him for your tonearms and cartridges (any of them) once Marco has gone ape over his new one - you know he will :lol:
There was also the L75S with a "S" shaped Jelco arm
atnHzimpDv8
i have one of those decks, the arm looks very nice. been going to get it going, but have been too busy / distracted just lately
i'm very pleased with my spu... thats the main reason the other decks are just piling up...
although i really like what the m3d does.
Note to self: Wander into the AoS room at Scalford 2012 and say exactly that.....
;):lolsign:
Hehe! I was going to do the the same..... Maybe we can get up a coach party.... ;)
So would your little system when mangled through you-tube :D
Well, downloaded needledrops of people's T/Ts on here sound far better on my laptop! ;)
And I've heard decent sounds before of T/Ts on YouTube links..... It doesn't seem to be holding things back too much here:
KwI_JNyP4eA&feature=related
I think it's probably the cartridge being used in your link that's causing most of the shite sound.
I didn't think the Schick arms were expensive either - certainly well under a grand I seem to recall.......
Indeed - he keeps it real, when it comes to pricing, which is another reason why I respect his designs :)
P.S. Since the man's too modest and I'm the "Shill From Hell" don't you know, HiFi Dave is now a top line Ortofon Reference dealer - go to him for your tonearms and cartridges (any of them) once Marco has gone ape over his new one - you know he will...
Lol - well both will be getting thoroughly auditioned, before purchase, so they won't be coming home for me to go ape about, if they don't meet my expectations.
Suffice to say though, that research and experience suggests that the partnership should be phenomenal!
Btw, my current SPU and Jelco have been sold, and the SPU put away for collection by the buyer. Until I get my new SPU, I'm currently using the G800, which optimally set up as I have it, never ceases to amaze, especially as it cost less than a tenner! :eyebrows:
Good point about Hi-Fi Dave, although I also have to praise Simon, from Hi-Fi Sound, who has been an absolute gem to deal with, and whose standards of service have been exemplary :cool:
Marco.
Hehe! I was going to do the the same..... Maybe we can get up a coach party.... ;)
Hehehe.... Bastids! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Magna Audio
08-11-2011, 16:08
I'm a bit busy with all the other hifi activities short term at the moment and work is starting to ramp up (not hifi related :-( ) so time is too tight at the moment.
BR
Steve
Hi Steve,
What about my offer - are you up for a sesh or not?
Marco.
No problem, Steve. We can arrange something at a later date :)
Are you planning on going to Scalford next year?
Marco.
It only goes to show how incestuous audio fora can be. One of the posts in the Lenco Heaven thread links to an article I wrote, originally for AoS, but later 'published' in Neil's 'Adventures in Hi Fidelity Audio'.
What goes around .... ? :lol:
Magna Audio
09-11-2011, 11:39
Yes for Scalford - but I'll only be taking the 5 way horns with me:)
Front end will prob be Voyd / Audionote / IO Ltd Ed...
Amps some mix of SET for the compression drivers and big D class amps for Bass channels.
No problem, Steve. We can arrange something at a later date :)
Are you planning on going to Scalford next year?
Marco.
Good point about Hi-Fi Dave, although I also have to praise Simon, from Hi-Fi Sound, who has been an absolute gem to deal with, and whose standards of service have been exemplary :cool:
Marco.
I don't know Simon - is he a lurker here? and it's definitely for the best, as recommendation of trusted dealers around the UK is important and not "shilling" at all - but you chaps know where I am with this and the shadow glaring over my shoulder.......
So Marco, is any SPU worth several hundred times the price of a good G800????? I can't afford to take the gamble, but i'd love to hear what a better diamond would do a la Dom's for example :)
alfie2902
09-11-2011, 21:19
Great pics indeed.
i love my Silver Meister on SP-10 and 12" arms. The Schick does look great doesn't it. So clean and simple.
My 12" arms are converted Rega R200 or PL-71 with SME 3012 tube. Sounds great but as good as a Schick perhaps not.
I am having a Fidelity Research FR64S round on Thursday evening for a listen - not to buy but to hear how good that is. I did hear the very same arm on a Voyd deck with my SPU and it was great...
Really looking forward to hearing the horns at last, Steve!
I'll bring the Royal GM too it will be nice to hear at the same time as the Silver Meister.
alfie2902
09-11-2011, 21:27
Hi Steve,
I completely agree with your comments on the Schick/Meister Silver combo: "clean and simple" sums it up nicely, and indeed appeals to my audio design sensibilities!
This is just gorgeous: http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4254/schick6653.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/schick6653.jpg/)
Perhaps we could have a bake-off, once my new Ortofon tonearm and SPU have been fitted to my T/T?
I suspect that I'll be going for a new Classic GM E, for reasons previously outlined, therefore a comparison with your Meister Silver, which could simply be fitted to my own T/T, would be beneficial, not to mention interesting to both of us, particularly if you'd like to hear my T/T in your system? :cool:
Marco.
The Schick looks stunning I think there's a 9 month waiting list for one too.
Marco have you considered the Ortofon TA 110 tonearm? Looks a very interesting match for the SPU as does the 12" TA 210.
Hi Alfie,
Yes I did, but it's near-identical to my current Jelco SA-750D, save the look of the counterweight balance and bearing housing, and with (apparently) some damping added to the armtube. Therefore, IMO, it's not really worth the significant price difference over the Jelco (who make all of Ortofon's current tonearms, anyway).
The RS-212D, however, is sufficiently different from my current tonearm, and is engineered to a rather higher standard, as one would expect considering the difference in cost. One aspect for me that was important was that the bias (anti-skating) adjustment goes up to 5g, whereas on the Jelco, it was only 3g. I think that this is significant when using an SPU, tracking a 4g+ :)
I'm certainly looking forward to having my new tonearm and cartridge fitted, and hearing even more from my large and eclectic collection of music on vinyl :cool:
Marco.
Hi Dave,
I don't know Simon - is he a lurker here?
I've known Simon for years, back when he was in his old shop in Darlington (a veritable haven of new and vintage audio equipment). You know the way that hi-fi shops used to be 20 or 30 years ago? Crammed to the rooftop with stock and not very tidy, but with an unmistakable charm?
It was the sort of place you could demo various cartridges and tonearms on the T/T of your choice, and Simon is quite a T/T set-up expert, too!
Well that was Simon's old shop. His new place is somewhat plusher (as you can see), but I'm sure still offers the same standards of service:
http://www.hifisound.co.uk/showroom.html
I'll certainly find out when I visit in around a week! :)
So Marco, is any SPU worth several hundred times the price of a good G800?????
Well of course that's highly subjective.
What I can tell you though is that the G800, when properly partnered and set-up, is an amazingly good cartridge for an MM design, especially one so old.
A top-notch low-output MC cartridge, however, like an SPU, adds a goodly dose more finesse, refinement and clarity, especially at frequency extremes. I'm also hopeful that the elliptical tip of my new SPU will improve high-frequency detail even further.
The G800 is a superb design, and shows a clean pair of heels, musically, to many modern MM designs, some rather more expensive than it, but it is no SPU. However, all the same, it's a fun listen, and I'm currently enjoying its unforced and addictive way of music making, until I fit my new SPU.
I can't afford to take the gamble, but i'd love to hear what a better diamond would do a la Dom's for example
So would I, and I may well investigate that option in future, so watch this space! :cool:
Marco.
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