More Kef speaker questions

[joey]

Hello, me again with more questions :doh:

So i have this pair of speakers which i was lead to belive where LS3/5A's.

But after taking a closer look today the crossovers arent the right ones for them to be, well at least i dont think they are,

Heres the speakers in question

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii204/joestanton4/f155420e.jpg

Here is the crossover unit

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii204/joestanton4/IMG_1765.jpg

Which crossover unit would i need to make these a pair of LS3/5a?

The white bit of paper stabled inside leads me to confim they where kit form as it states KEF KIT Model KK4 , which i cant seem to find anything about,
also the serial numbers seem really low which means they where a really early set or not many where sold?

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii204/joestanton4/IMG_1764.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii204/joestanton4/IMG_1766.jpg


Next question is about the T27 tweeters,
Are these really early ones again, would the 088 be serial numbers on them or where they never matched to be the same as im pretty sure they are both 088 stickers on them.
They look a lot diffreint to the others in my later coda speaker, and the only information i seem to be able to find shows a picture on some bbc prototypes of the ls3/5

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii204/joestanton4/IMG_1767.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii204/joestanton4/IMG_1768.jpg

Sorry for all the questions, il stop asking soon :lolsign:

Joe

[Rare Bird]

If anyone sees a pair of original 'Cresta' (Circa 1967) yes please

:cool:

[Rare Bird]

Next question is about the T27 tweeters,
Are these really early ones again, would the 088 be serial numbers on them or where they never matched to be the same as im pretty sure they are both 088 stickers on them.



If they are 'KK4'that tweeter should be a 'T27' (Type 6340) Melinex dome...
The 'B110' (Type 6362)

Both used in the original 'Cresta' i'm looking for

[DSJR]

Those are EARLY T27's and no, you'll never make an LS3/5A out of them, as they won't be matched or calibrated to spec. The best you'll get is a poor bodge :scratch:

Sorry, but it has to be said. Just enjoy the KEF-Kits as they are - the boxes look nice and the basic ingredients are fine. Why make it less sensitive and squeakier?????

[joey]

Those are EARLY T27's and no, you'll never make an LS3/5A out of them, as they won't be matched or calibrated to spec. The best you'll get is a poor bodge :scratch:

Sorry, but it has to be said. Just enjoy the KEF-Kits as they are - the boxes look nice and the basic ingredients are fine. Why make it less sensitive and squeakier?????

No need to be sorry id rather know what i have got than preted to have something i dont! haha

The only reason i thought they where was because someone told me they where and i never thought to check it further,

Anyway im going to leave them as they are they sound pretty decent for what they are and in my opion they suit my system and fit in with everything else,

Do you think those 088 stickers are serial numbers or just 088 stickers meaning nothing?


Joe

[DSJR]

Batch numbers possibly I don't know..

See what the capacitors are on the circuit board - some pics would be nice - and maybe you could make a useful change to these. Wilmslow Audio or Falcon Acoustics may have advice on "alternative" crossovers for these which may update the concept a little.

The main thing with the LS3/5A is that it had a tuned circuit to bolster up the very top of the bass unit's frequency range, aiding a smoother transition to the tweeter. This added loads of complexity I think and made driver matching to the individual crossovers a far more critical thing. A bad pair of 3/5A's (many repaired Rogers ones would be bad now, as they never supplied matched drivers out as replacements I remember) are not a pleasant thing to listen to at all IMO.

Enjoy what you have and maybe refine what's there sympathetically. That way you'll have another 40 years from them with any luck :)

[joey]

Batch numbers possibly I don't know..

See what the capacitors are on the circuit board - some pics would be nice - and maybe you could make a useful change to these. Wilmslow Audio or Falcon Acoustics may have advice on "alternative" crossovers for these which may update the concept a little.

The main thing with the LS3/5A is that it had a tuned circuit to bolster up the very top of the bass unit's frequency range, aiding a smoother transition to the tweeter. This added loads of complexity I think and made driver matching to the individual crossovers a far more critical thing. A bad pair of 3/5A's (many repaired Rogers ones would be bad now, as they never supplied matched drivers out as replacements I remember) are not a pleasant thing to listen to at all IMO.

Enjoy what you have and maybe refine what's there sympathetically. That way you'll have another 40 years from them with any luck :)

Thats fair enouth, im still learning lots when it comes to this audio stuff! :lolsign:

I didnt think to take pictures of the crossover units when they where apart yesterday, so i need to go take them apart again to look at the crossovers:scratch:

[Reid Malenfant]

I haven't got a clue what you have there as certain things are not making sense :scratch:

What you have is a kit of components, the two bass/mid drivers, the two tweeters & the standard Kef crossover in a pair of enclosures ;) I have a feeling that someone has stapled the kit checklist to the back of the enclosures & they are homemade, but probably done pretty well by the look of it :)

I remember receiving a Kefkit of a pair of B200, crossover & T27 as a 13 year old kid (lucky for some) & you don't get an enclosure - hense the kit bit :eyebrows:

These look even earlier though in all honesty... No-one would sell a commercial set of speakers with "kit" in any part of the equation ;)

E2A:- 1970 says it all... I was 13 in 1979 :lol:

[Rare Bird]

I haven't got a clue what you have there as certain things are not making sense :scratch:

What you have is a kit of components, the two bass/mid drivers, the two tweeters & the standard Kef crossover in a pair of enclosures ;) I have a feeling that someone has stapled the kit checklist to the back of the enclosures & they are homemade, but probably done pretty well by the look of it :)

I remember receiving a Kefkit of a pair of B200, crossover & T27 as a 13 year old kid (lucky for some) & you don't get an enclosure - hense the kit bit :eyebrows:

These look even earlier though in all honesty... No-one would sell a commercial set of speakers with "kit" in any part of the equation ;)

E2A:- 1970 says it all... I was 13 in 1979 :lol:

Mark they are Kef K4 they are the real units used as i outlined post No.4 about circa 1967/68

Joe: their should be a sticker on the side of the tweeter magnet stating 6340

[Reid Malenfant]

Mark they are Kef K4 they are the real units used as i oulined post No.4 about circa 1967/68
No doubt Andr'e, but I seriously doubt they are manufactured (by a business) loudspeaker enclosures ;)

Well not unless Kef was known as Kefkit back in the day :lol:

Ah, I see you are saying the same thing :doh: What a plonker I am :eyebrows:

[joey]

I haven't got a clue what you have there as certain things are not making sense :scratch:

What you have is a kit of components, the two bass/mid drivers, the two tweeters & the standard Kef crossover in a pair of enclosures ;) I have a feeling that someone has stapled the kit checklist to the back of the enclosures & they are homemade, but probably done pretty well by the look of it :)

I remember receiving a Kefkit of a pair of B200, crossover & T27 as a 13 year old kid (lucky for some) & you don't get an enclosure - hense the kit bit :eyebrows:

These look even earlier though in all honesty... No-one would sell a commercial set of speakers with "kit" in any part of the equation ;)

E2A:- 1970 says it all... I was 13 in 1979 :lol:

Right ok, Im confused to. :lolsign:


Mark they are Kef K4 they are the real units used as i outlined post No.4 about circa 1967/68

Joe: their should be a sticker on the side of the tweeter magnet stating 6340

So do you know what the KK4 come with as a kit?

But then if you say 67/68 how come the checklists are dated 70?

there was loads of stickers in the box when i took them apart yesterday looks as if the stickers had fallen off over the years! im going to go take a picture of the crossover shortly and will look at the stickers on them then

[Rare Bird]

This is getting messy :lolsign: What i'm saying is that clear/cream dome you have on yours came out around 1967ish, the last time these were used at a guess would be around 1970, so the label is most probably right.

[joey]

This is getting messy :lolsign: What i'm saying is that clear/cream dome you have on yours came out around 1967ish, the last time these were used as a guess would be around 1970, so the label is probably right.

Yeah it is getting abit confusing :mental:

That makes sense then

[Rare Bird]

Nothing confusing really :lolsign:

You have 'KK4'. The 'KK4' used 'T27' (Type 6340) & The 'B110' (Type 6362)

That specific tweeter type came out around 1967 ish was used upto around 1970
That specific Woofer came out around 1966 ish was used in the 'KK4' in 1969, as the later 'T27' came out around 1971 ish your check card is more than certainly right.

:eyebrows:

One thing you surely noticed between yor tweeter apart from the colour of the dome is it doesnt have external leads on the face plate like you saw on the later 'T27' :)

[joey]

Nothing confusing really :lolsign:

You have 'KK4'. The 'KK4' used 'T27' (Type 6340) & The 'B110' (Type 6362)

That specific tweeter type came out around 1967 ish was used upto around 1970
That specific Woofer came out around 1966 ish was used in the 'KK4' in 1969, as the later 'T27' came out around 1971 ish your check card is more than certainly right.

:eyebrows:

One thing you surely noticed between yor tweeter apart from the colour of the dome is it doesnt have external leads on the face plate like you saw on the later 'T27' :)

Yeah that makes perfect sense!

Do you have anymore infomation on the KK4?

I was woundering about the serial numbers seem really low to me, so do you think this is a fact that they never made many or was a early kit?

[Rare Bird]

Hi
There's nothing else to know, you obviously have the 'SP1007' crossover!..you obviously have cabinets. When you bought the kit you only got the units X-Over, Baffle board & bits, you had to make the cabinets to plan.. I can find you some spec if you wish.

Personally i would keep them & make good use of them or just give them me so i can make myself a pair of original Cresta's out of em :eyebrows:

[joey]

Hi
There's nothing else to know, you obviously have the 'SP1007' crossover!..you obviously have cabinets. When you bought the kit you only got the units X-Over, Baffle board & bits, you had to make the cabinets to plan.. I can find you some spec if you wish.

Personally i would keep them & make good use of them or just give them me so i can make myself a pair of original Cresta's out of em :eyebrows:

I see Thanks,

Yeah if you dont mind specs would be good incase i ever devided to build new boxes ect.

I was planning on keeping them anyway so wont be going anywhere just yet :sorry:

[spendorman]

As mentioned earlier, your tweeters were not used in the LS3/5a, but yours, or similar were used in the LS3/5. I seem to recollect that Falcon did a crossover for the LS3/5, they may still do it.

[Rare Bird]

As mentioned earlier, your tweeters were not used in the LS3/5a, but yours, or similar were used in the LS3/5. I seem to recollect that Falcon did a crossover for the LS3/5, they may still do it.

They do it's the 100T

[spendorman]

That might be something, to build a pair of LS3/5 clones, would certainly sound much better than the original KEF Cresta or Coda.

I have original KEF Coda's and they sound quite coloured compared to my Chartwell LS3/5a and my clone LS3/5a

[spendorman]

Here is an advert for the Rogers LS3/5

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6218/6309156096_623c03a432_b.jpg

[Martyn Miles]

That might be something, to build a pair of LS3/5 clones, would certainly sound much better than the original KEF Cresta or Coda.

I have original KEF Codas and they sound quite coloured compared to my Chartwell LS3/5a and my clone LS3/5a

I have just rebuilt a pair of Codas for my son, using B110s and earlier T27s than the SP1003s which were fitted originally.
They don't sound like LS3/5as. Not surprising...
They do sound acceptable, and using the Quad 34's comprehensive tone shaping I get an reasonable balance. Considering they are standing on a pair of Harbeth P3ESRs, when I switched over I was surprised how good they sound with the Quad 34's controls optimally adjusted.

We know the classic B110/T27 combination can sound very good, as has been demonstrated many times.

[spendorman]

I have just rebuilt a pair of Codas for my son, using B110s and earlier T27s than the SP1003s which were fitted originally.
They don't sound like LS3/5as. Not surprising...
They do sound acceptable, and using the Quad 34's comprehensive tone shaping I get an reasonable balance. Considering they are standing on a pair of Harbeth P3ESRs, when I switched over I was surprised how good they sound with the Quad 34's controls optimally adjusted.

We know the classic B110/T27 combination can sound very good, as has been demonstrated many times.

I reckon that the B110 and T15 is actually a better match than B110 + T27, reason being that with the T15 the crossover frequency can be lower, thus avoiding some of the strange midrange of the B110.

CS1a crossovers in your Coda's would probably be good. Bit more expensive now from Falcon compared with when I bought them.

[walpurgis]

I reckon that the B110 and T15 is actually a better match than B110 + T27, reason being that with the T15 the crossover frequency can be lower, thus avoiding some of the strange midrange of the B110.

That's not a combination I've ever heard of anyone trying, but there's no reason why it won't work.

[spendorman]

That's not a combination I've ever heard of anyone trying, but there's no reason why it won't work.

It works really well in my Daline's, a Coles 4001G is used a supertweeter as well.

There is an enthusiast on pinkfish who used the B110 + T15 in LS3/5a sized cabinets.

[awkwardbydesign]

It works really well in my Daline's,


Yes, I did that too.

[Martyn Miles]

There is an enthusiast on pinkfish who used the B110 + T15 in LS3/5a sized cabinets.

Now that would be an interesting speaker to hear. Do you know which crossover he used ?

M Miles.

[spendorman]

Now that would be an interesting speaker to hear. Do you know which crossover he used ?

M Miles.

Part of it, the high pass was from a Wireless World design, B200+T15.

[spendorman]

Yes, I did that too.

Wow, me must be the only two!

[walpurgis]

I remember the Daline, but I'm sure the version I saw had a T27.

[spendorman]

I remember the Daline, but I'm sure the version I saw had a T27.

Basic was B110+T27

Delux was B110+T15+Coles 4001G

[spendorman]

KEF CS1a crossover for B110 SP1003 and T27 SP1032

http://www.hifiloudspeakers.info/Anatomy/KEFDocuments/KEFCS1A/KefCross.gif

That Martyn has older T27's won't make much difference.

[Martyn Miles]

I re-found this thread almost by accident.
It made me think that the best thing the OP could do was enjoy what he has.

I often find I get great musical enjoyment from quite modest loudspeakers.

Martyn.

[Arkless Electronics]

Does anyone else remember the KEF Reference 101? It was KEF's own answer to the LS3/5A I guess... although slightly bigger IIRC and had KEF's "S-Stop" driver protection system. I remember them sounding very good. I reckon it would be around 1982 when I first and last saw and heard them!

[walpurgis]

I remember those Jez. I heard them at a Hi-Fi show many years ago on the KEF stand and thought they were very good.

Shades of the Celestion A1 maybe. They were a remarkably nice small speaker too.

[spendorman]

Does anyone else remember the KEF Reference 101? It was KEF's own answer to the LS3/5A I guess... although slightly bigger IIRC and had KEF's "S-Stop" driver protection system. I remember them sounding very good. I reckon it would be around 1982 when I first and last saw and heard them!

Yes, about that time I built the KEF CS1a speakers, the CS1 was even closer to the 101.

[Arkless Electronics]

I thought the R101 to be superior to the LS3/5A at the time... could be a bit of a bargain.

[spendorman]

Replacement bass units might be difficult if needed.