View Full Version : The beginning of the end for Spotify?
I see artists such as Cold Play, Tom Waits, Adele are refusing to put their latest albums on Spotify. The labels seem to make some revenue from streaming but the artists aren't.
The revenue model will need to change if Spotify is to survive but if people expect music on the cheap then major artists are bound to loose out and ultimately rebel. Artists looking for plays to launch themselves probably take a different view.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/cant-stream-wont-stream-2376945.html
It may not be the beginning the end for Spotify but more the end of the beginning in the that business model and royalty payments need to be tweaked.
StanleyB
28-10-2011, 09:34
Some of these artists seem to have forgotten how come they got rich and famous in the first place. If their reason for refusing to have their music streamed because they are unhappy with the financial returns, imagine how unhappy they'll be if sales of their music dropped due to decreased exposure and playtime.
monkfish
28-10-2011, 09:42
Spotify has never been comprehensive, there is/will be Artists who who don't want their material hosted at all or limit what is available.
I tend to concentrate on what's there, which is absolutely vast and I can't see that changing.
Regarding the Artists you mention, one is Fairly well represented on Spotify and the others (in my opinion of course) are the better for omission.:):).
Regards
Jim
StanleyB
28-10-2011, 10:44
That somehow ties in with an article in the Guardian. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/oct/27/when-bands-fall-off-cliffs)
Not quite sure your title is correct really.... shock horror Coldplay refusing to go on there.....that's not going to make a jot of difference IMO. The artists do get a royalty, which agreed is minuscule, but I think you will find the artists themselves go on there for exposure and to get known, not to make money. Coldplay obviously consider themselves above that?
At the moment Spotify is in growth, not decline and Coldplay aren't going to change that!
There has always been artist that do not want to use spotify at the moment I see no danager to the site
That somehow ties in with an article in the Guardian. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/oct/27/when-bands-fall-off-cliffs)
Very interesting read.
I thought it was the live work that artists survived on. I really don't think that album/music sales make them much in comparison these days - for good or bad..
No Coldplay on Spotify! :eek: That's just guaranteed about 2million new subscribers, then! ;)
Interesting that a couple of comment focus of Coldplay. I'd have thought that Adele's omission was more relevant. I'd love to know what the majority of Spotify users listen to. Possibly not hi-fi buffs in the main. Most today's mainstream.
As for a complaint about the title I used, I did also say: "It may not be the beginning the end for Spotify but more the end of the beginning". Spotify is bound to evolve, maybe we are seeing the start of that, time will tell.
Sorry Clive, my rather flippant comment was probably uncalled for in isolaton! ;)
There are well-known bands that won't go any where near digital (Beatles, Floyd, Metallica) but IMHO that is mostly trying to preserve the "crown jewels" and is probably of little relevance to 90% of Spotify users... if everyone who listens to Spotify became a subscriber, then I guess the revenue models would improve for artists, but like Tim said, it is mostly down to exposure - I'm a lot more fussy about what I buy now, but very unlikely I would buy an album without listening a few times on Spotify - for me, gone are the days where I will take a punt on a nice 3 line Sunday Times review - granted the Amazon preview service does a similar thing, but for me I want to hear the whole album these days before parting with my cash.
I had an interesting point of view from my son, who plays in a band. He says Spotify is not popular with bands because they're not supported and see precious little if any of the revenue. If that's true, then the model is wrong and perhaps Spotify should move to a monthly payment scheme for everyone.
In any case, Spotify will never be a primary source for me. It is, however, wonderfully useful for checking out new material.
So are Coldplay the new Dire Straits, then? I liked Dire Straits and I like Coldplay. So there :ner:
That's an interesting comment from your son Martin and if it's echoed by the majority of musicians, then maybe Spotify needs a re-think? I guess older generations like the majority here still buy music and use Spotify as a resource for research - but maybe the younger generation who think music is free, will only listen and never buy anything . . . bit of a conundrum :scratch:
(and the comment about the younger generation thinking music is free is not from me, that's a quote from the Bob Harris Country show made by Nashville singer/songwriter and music journalist Peter Cooper)
dave2010
29-10-2011, 05:13
That's an interesting comment from your son Martin and if it's echoed by the majority of musicians, then maybe Spotify needs a re-think? I guess older generations like the majority here still buy music and use Spotify as a resource for research - but maybe the younger generation who think music is free, will only listen and never buy anything . . . bit of a conundrum :scratch:
(and the comment about the younger generation thinking music is free is not from me, that's a quote from the Bob Harris Country show made by Nashville singer/songwriter and music journalist Peter Cooper)I work with young people, and over the years i've met many who say that "I never pay for music ". They are just not prepared to do it I think, and if Spotify, Napster etc. collapse they'll just go back to copying from CDs or the radio, TV etc. Having said that, there are many things that they don't do. Many of them don't listen to music (of any sort), don't read books, don't read newspapers, and I do wonder at times what they do do. (I even wonder if they do "that"!)
For myself I do subscribe to Spotify, and for my purposes it's fine, but of the people (quite a few) I've passed on invitations to, I don't think any of them have converted to a subscription. In the software world one business model is to offer free software or services until the user base is large enough, then switch to a payment model for new users. It doesn't always work though.
Another model might be a micro-payments model. This could be of various forms. One would simply be a charge of (say) 1p per track listened to by non-subscribers. That would hardly break most users piggy banks. Another variant would be to track each user's listening, so that after (say) 3 listenings, they either have to pay a micro-payment, or download the track at a higher price (say 40p-£1 - maybe more, depending on the track.
My interest is in classical music. There are a lot of performances of many things on Spotify, and if you add in Napster and maybe classical.com as well there's a lot available. However, there are also many performances which are not available on these streaming sites. iTunes and Amazon may fill in some gaps, but there's still a lot which is only available on CD or LP.
Looking at the more popular market, it seems to me that many apparently important works are not available. There are many cover versions on streaming/download sites. Some of the cover versions are pleasant enough, and some are even a fairly decent approximation to the originals, but most are just junk. It's a bit hit and miss. Bob Dylan is available, but no Beatles, and there must be many other examples. I think the Rolling Stones are there, but the quality isn't great. That might be a problem for some tracks, as new listeners might just not "get" them with the poor quality available, and hence not go to buy a higher quality download or CD version and thus they don't put input into the monetary food chain for record companies and artists. Sometimes the cover versions are passable, but often they are rubbish compared to the originals.
My guess is that Spotify and other services will survive. Record companies will find that they can't continue to charge prices that people don't want to pay, some companies will go out of business, some artists will give up and go and do other things. This is not new stuff. Although we all here like music, we can't base a society just on consumption of entertainment - there are other things to be done, and when people can't or won't pay for such entertainment who is going to force them to do so when they have other things to worry about - food, heating, where there next mortgage payment is going to come from, etc.
the younger generation who think music is free, will only listen and never buy anything . . . bit of a conundrum :scratch:
At the girls' school I work for, their attitude is one of shock when they have to pay for software. The usual request of "can you put Microsoft on this" (meaning MS Office) is met with "yes, it'll cost you £110 for the Student Home Edition". They simply can't believe it, which is amusing as in the case of our girls their parents will end up paying for it on the school bill.
Their attitude towards music is almost the same: they want to download it freely but will pay iTunes if they cannot find it. My job of blocking all illegal download sites is a game of cat and mouse as they occasionally find a new site and I see the traffic pattern and block it ;)
At the girls' school I work for, their attitude is one of shock when they have to pay for software. The usual request of "can you put Microsoft on this" (meaning MS Office) is met with "yes, it'll cost you £110 for the Student Home Edition". They simply can't believe it, which is amusing as in the case of our girls their parents will end up paying for it on the school bill.
Their attitude towards music is almost the same: they want to download it freely but will pay iTunes if they cannot find it. My job of blocking all illegal download sites is a game of cat and mouse as they occasionally find a new site and I see the traffic pattern and block it ;)
It does seem to be the way with digital media. If they can't hold it they don't wanna pay for it. I guess they think it's made out of thin air. It's ignorance really.
See if they wanna write and record an album or design and build some software and then give it away for free.
Yes, I feel an assembly lecture coming on. Perhaps start with the question "do you have any mates who play in a band..." and take it from there.
Yes, I feel an assembly lecture coming on. Perhaps start with the question "do you have any mates who play in a band..." and take it from there.
For a while a pal of mine was known as 'Do us a copy' because that is what he would say anytime you played him something he liked. He joined a couple of bands and went into the studio and made some albums. This was about the time of the Napster furore.
Discussing it one day with him I remarked that Metallica (who were leading the charge against free music downloads) were IMHO, a bunch of money-grabbing bastards. He took exception to this and railed at length about the artists' rights to recieve payment for their work until I reminded him of his 'Do us a copy' nickname at which point his brain went into a 'does not compute' loop in which I believe it is still stuck today...:eyebrows:
dave2010
29-10-2011, 12:41
For a while a pal of mine was known as 'Do us a copy' because that is what he would say anytime you played him something he liked. He joined a couple of bands and went into the studio and made some albums. This was about the time of the Napster furore.
Discussing it one day with him I remarked that Metallica (who were leading the charge against free music downloads) were IMHO, a bunch of money-grabbing bastards. He took exception to this and railed at length about the artists' rights to recieve payment for their work until I reminded him of his 'Do us a copy' nickname at which point his brain went into a 'does not compute' loop in which I believe it is still stuck today...:eyebrows::lolsign: Love it. I've had similar conversations with students. Can't pay, won't pay. They don't care. Even more so, some of them drive cars that I can't afford (and wouldn't want to - OK not Porsches or Ferraris, but BMWs and Mercs from time to time, and the odd Blundellsands Golf Buggy) - though it would perhaps be unfair to identify them as the ones who are ripping off music and software.
If a new revenue model is needed then Spotify need to get their act together pretty sharpish or they might find themselves being sidelined by this: Pure Music (http://blogs.which.co.uk/technology/radio-mp3/pure-music-we-test-listen-the-new-music-streaming-service/) :eyebrows:
Here's a question... Is Spotify killing music sales?
If you look at sales figures for 2011, they're UP in the US by 1.6% whereas there's been a fall of 11% in the UK. Considering that Spotify was only recently introduced in the US, is there any correlation here? It'll be interesting to see how those figures fare next year.
I know quite a few people who use Spotify exclusively to listen to music these days. Pay the £4.99 subscription fee and have not bought a CD since!!
Here's a question... Is Spotify killing music sales
That's an interesting question for sure and I would think quite difficult to quantify?
In my case it has made me buy more CD's (many more in fact), but then I'm a buyer as opposed to a downloader and research music a lot. I do know people that buy very few CD's anyway and since using Spotify, they buy even less.
So it's a double edged sword I guess.
My theory would be you would have to do a lot more research to see how that 11% shapes up, as we are in a double dip-recession now, which as I see it is getting worse. I think the people who are really into music would buy more as a result of Spotify, but the casual 'X-Factor' type pop people would buy less and those people are the majority, so quite possibly it is harming sales :scratch:
Even then, I can't see how the blame can be laid solely at the door of Spotify. iTunes and other popular download portals have a far greater influence on CD sales than Spotify does :eyebrows:
chapter three
31-10-2011, 17:22
The Pirate Bay must have more influence than any legal download service.
This row reminds me of "Home Taping is Killing Music"
I use Spotify Premium. It's a great way of discovering new music but I've noticed CD prices have dropped considerably over the last couple of years. With used outlets like Zoverstocks around you can get almost anything for a few quid.
I'm getting albums for less than I paid 20 years ago, so I'm happy.
Clodplay - Who are they? :lol:
twelvebears
31-10-2011, 17:37
I use Spotify Premium. It's a great way of discovering new music but I've noticed CD prices have dropped considerably over the last couple of years. With used outlets like Zoverstocks around you can get almost anything for a few quid.
I'm getting albums for less than I paid 20 years ago, so I'm happy.
Ditto.
Great way to test stuff out at decent quality (at least good enough to get and idea of the recording standard) before buying the CD.
I'm still a buy, rip and store merchant because I like having a hard copy back-up and a full-quality lossless rip for the same or less than a download.
Here's a question... Is Spotify killing music sales?
Sorry to say it, but in my case, definitely. Having acquired 4,000 odd albums across formats over the last 30 years, I suddenly find myself wanting to cut-back both for physical (storage!) and logical (time!) reasons as well as financial - these days, it has to survive 3 or 4 Spotify plays at least, before it gets purchased - the amount of albums I still have that have hardly been played in 10 or 20 years is testament to the value of an option like Spotify these days, at least...
Reid Malenfant
31-10-2011, 20:49
Hmmm, I'd say it could be increasing sales in the secondhand market ;) But i reckon youtube might be even more of an influence :eyebrows:
Honestly it's not very good though as the majority of music i listen to simply isn't on Spotify. I have a much greater sucsess finding stuff on youtube, while it's not the greatest quality I at least get an idea of what the album or at least some tracks are about ;)
I may well then go looking for CDs on fleabay...
Lee Henley
04-11-2011, 13:32
Thats fantastic news that Coldplay arent going to be on Spotify, thats made my day!
What I found is that I tending to buy albums on vinyl if availble after hearing them on Spotify
Like Alex but at far larger scale I bought far to many albums that I hardly listen too so if I find myself listening a lot I tend to purchase the album I will still get a CD but I have to be playing it a lot
I do worry about the money not going to the artists and hope this changes in the future I think in the long term this has to be the way forward
Thats fantastic news that Coldplay arent going to be on Spotify, thats made my day!
The hostility to Coldplay is interesting and a bit weird but then I'm agnostic about them. The real point is whether or not this matters, along with the likes of Adele. For Spotify to make money they need masses of people taking out subscriptions, I suggest that for "masses of people" this means people who generally do not frequent this forum.
Are the masses likely to be alienated when these sorts of artists drop off Sporitfy or don't put new releases on there?
Are they likely to buy a subscription at all, as has been previously mentioned?
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