Log in

View Full Version : VHS Hi-Fi for Audio



WOStantonCS100
24-10-2011, 21:33
Hopefully not a duplicate thread...

I recently revisited this idea and pulled out a Panasonic PV-9662 Hi-Fi vcr from behind the television in the den. It was literally caked with dust. :o That's not usually how I store gear; but, I'll explain that later. After a good cleaning, I hooked it up in the main system. I inserted an old vhs tape I had long ago recorded some music on. Wow! Now, I remember why I had started to go down this road. I even made the recording in LP mode (which started to disappear from some units as a recording speed by the time vcr's were in decline). No tracking glitches (annoyingly shifting back and forth from linear to hi-fi). This quite amazed me as 1) the original recording was made without the obligatory video feed and 2) I picked up this unit, which is nothing special by any means, for under 10 pounds at a local thrift.

I remembered then that I had gotten frustrated with my luck a while back when I put it behind the television. Although it sounded good, it did not come with a remote and it was impossible to set the input selection and speed without one. This is not uncommon to consumer decks of the time. The prosumer decks were much better in this regard and included a bunch of nice features, like ALC bypassing, allowing one to manually set independent left and right audio record levels. In order to make this a functional recorder I was going to have to get a remote control. Fortunately, it was easy enough to score one from the internet. Now, that I think about it. The remote cost me more than double what the unit cost me! :lol: Ahhh, this crazy music/audio gear fetish...

I have now made several recordings (from vinyl). If one knows how VHS Hi-Fi works, you know noise reduction is so not necessary. Nevertheless, I made recordings with and without the dbx Type II NR engaged. All the dbx seemed to do was to lessen tape hiss already present in the master tapes and subsequently pressed into the vinyl. Hmmphh. That's actually kind of cool. Head switching noise was so low that the only way I could hear it was to crank the volume up full blast during "silent" sections. If program material was playing at the time, I would be deaf now and probably without windows and a wife. Because the universal player is on a rack shelf adjacent to it, I do now run a direct video feed from it to the vcr. Since, neither the universal player video output or the video input of the vcr would otherwise be used, it works out perfectly. The universal player has a screen saver which pretty much assures a video signal will always be recorded along side the audio and, as I understand it, should increase tracking stability.

The only real concern is the noise of the actual vcr. Many consumer vcr's were/are quite noisy. This one is certainly noisier than my reel to reel decks; but, this can be easily overcome by using cans or leaning on the volume a bit harder, since I usually listen at very moderate volume. This would be a non-issue if I had a fancy rack with a glass door. If one doesn't mind the whole "FM" thing (my ears don't), this is a pretty cheap way to make excellent sounding analog recordings. (20Hz - 20kHz / +90dB SNR)

Having said all this, I do understand the "nay-sayers". I've had buggered vcr's and they were a nightmare; came with all the usual annoyances people run into when doing this sort of thing. Trust me, I know. But, a half-way decent machine, a good cleaning (not with a "cleaning tape"... ...taking the cover off and manually cleaning the drum and the tape path) and attentive setup payoff. I'm quite pleased I didn't put those 20 or so vhs audio recordings I made in the bin!!

Many of the original recordings were made on a Samsung unit set to LP speed. This unit was borrowed by a friend "and returned broken". :steam: Later, I got a JVC; but, it broke a week after the warranty was up. I've had Sony's that didn't last long, either. I tried a Magnavox bought from a thrift shop cheap that had all the trimmings; but, it broke after a few plays. At present, we still have a Mitsubishi in the bedroom, a working JVC in the den and now two Panasonic's for the main system. It's continues to be a journey. But, late at night when I'm listening to the music... ...it's worth it. :)

Yes, I am certifiable.

What are your experiences?

Reid Malenfant
24-10-2011, 21:44
I used to record a lot of CDs to VCR (hifi), I haven't got a complaint about it ;)

It's not perfect, but as long as things don't go out of alignment then you'll get CD quality playback ;)


Been a few threads on this subject of late, i'm quite surprised as i was doing this back in 1990 or so :scratch:

WOStantonCS100
24-10-2011, 22:05
I used to record a lot of CDs to VCR (hifi), I haven't got a complaint about it ;)

It's not perfect, but as long as things don't go out of alignment then you'll get CD quality playback ;)


Been a few threads on this subject of late, i'm quite surprised as i was doing this back in 1990 or so :scratch:


I probably started a few years after you ('94ish ??) and did indeed start with CD's. I let the minor obstacles put me off and spent the next ten years doing the whole LP to CD thing before ultimately returning to analog.

I've only used the 4-head models. Have you (or any one else) tried this with the 6-head models?

synsei
24-10-2011, 23:12
Yup Biff, my old Marantz VCR was a six head machine and the quality was damned good. As I've mentioned in another thread, I used to record dance mixes onto video tape for parties back then. The Marantz was absolutely perfect for the job and could give us up to 8hrs of non-stop music. Most partygoers were astounded by the quality but more so by the fact that it was coming from a VCR ;)

Thing Fish
24-10-2011, 23:19
I mentioned this ages ago and never got a reply?

I have used one for ages and find the recordings very good indeed.

Its good for dinner parties as you can record hours of music and forget about it.

WOStantonCS100
24-10-2011, 23:45
I mentioned this ages ago and never got a reply?

I have used one for ages and find the recordings very good indeed.

Its good for dinner parties as you can record hours of music and forget about it.

Anyone care to detail your particular technique (don't get frothy now ;) ) as it pertains to getting the most audio into, or out of, your deck(s)... ...for the folks at home? Preferred brand of blank vhs tape, perhaps?

greenhomeelectronics
25-10-2011, 07:53
Just to put a bit of meat on the bones - you need a NICAM machine for this purpose. In a standard VHS machine the audio track is a very thin part of the tape, the audio performance is not good, the tape moves slowly and the band is very thin. In NICAM ( near instantaneous companded audio multiplex) the audio track is kind of superimposed with the video information and uses the helical scanning head rather than a static audio head. The effective tape area is huge compared with the static head, the result is near CD quality sound. I used to sell a lot of NICAM VCR's specifically for this purpose - I even sold one to a very famous pop star from the 1960's:)
Dave.

Thing Fish
25-10-2011, 11:28
Anyone care to detail your particular technique (don't get frothy now ;) ) as it pertains to getting the most audio into, or out of, your deck(s)... ...for the folks at home? Preferred brand of blank vhs tape, perhaps?

My deck is a Panasonic NVHS 900 SVHS Nicam machine. I use it in my second (backroom) system which also consists of a lovely mint Pioneer SX950 into a pair of capable Musical Fidelity MC2's

I use SVHS tapes as I bought a load years ago when I used the Panasonic to edit my underwater footage from hi-8.

The sound is very pleasing indeed...:)

Reid Malenfant
25-10-2011, 16:47
If you purchase good quality standard VHS tapes you just need to drill a small hole in the tape casing & you can then record super VHS recordings onto it, with 400+ lines, assuming you have a super VHS recorder of course. It a trick i used to do myself :eyebrows:

I'm not at all sure how the increased amount of lines is done, other than possibly spinning the drum faster? If that's the case then there would be in increase in effective tape speed as seen by the rotating head & a slight increase in sound quality. I doubt you'd notice it though as a hifi VHS deck has damn good sound anyway :) I just did it to get better picture quality before i bought a DVD recorder.

Thing Fish
25-10-2011, 16:50
If you purchase good quality standard VHS tapes you just need to drill a small hole in the tape casing & you can then record super VHS recordings onto it, with 400+ lines, assuming you have a super VHS recorder of course. It a trick i used to do myself :eyebrows

Interesting...:)

Reid Malenfant
25-10-2011, 16:51
Interesting...:)
Precisely, even a top quality standard VHS tape is much cheaper than an SVHS tape ;)

WOStantonCS100
25-10-2011, 18:33
Just to put a bit of meat on the bones - you need a NICAM machine for this purpose. In a standard VHS machine the audio track is a very thin part of the tape, the audio performance is not good, the tape moves slowly and the band is very thin. In NICAM ( near instantaneous companded audio multiplex) the audio track is kind of superimposed with the video information and uses the helical scanning head rather than a static audio head. The effective tape area is huge compared with the static head, the result is near CD quality sound. I used to sell a lot of NICAM VCR's specifically for this purpose - I even sold one to a very famous pop star from the 1960's:)
Dave.

As long as you have a vhs hi-fi deck you're good to go (not a plain jane vcr) as the "Hi-Fi" system does indeed use audio frequency modulation to record the audio "under" the video tracks with helical scanning, huge tape area, as you mentioned, and separated from the very poor and usually mono linear track. NICAM, which involves digitization, isn't a must in this case.

Reid Malenfant
25-10-2011, 18:38
I'd also add that you make sure you purchase one with record level controls, if it hasn't got any (which quite a few hifi VHS recorders don't have) then it'll be using some form of automatic recording level. This can act like a compander & bugger up the dynamic range when recording :(

synsei
25-10-2011, 20:57
Indeed Mark which is why I bought the Marantz. I wish I could remember which model it was but it was so long ago *sighs*. I bought it from a mate who found it too complicated to use, I think I paid him about 60 quid for it :lol:

I'll do a bit of digging online and see if I can't find one somewhere...

WOStantonCS100
06-11-2011, 04:42
At one time I had a really nice Magnavox and at another time a Sony with insert audio capability and manual level controls; super slick decks. This is not an upscale vhs hi-fi, obviously, but it does quite a nice job and the sonics are very good (Panasonic PV-9661). The ALC doesn't seem to be very intrusive on this/these particular units. I started with my thrift find (Panasonic PV-9662) and recently acquired this one as a back up; essentially the same unit. I'm listening to a copy of one of my Ian Carr LP's as I type, recorded in Short Play mode. :)

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/TCKA1ESa/023.jpg