Thorens TD150 project complete - a case of reverse engineering.

[worrasf]

I recently bought a stunning NOS AKG P8ES SuperNova which although sounding wonderful was not a terribly good match to my Jelco 750 :eyebrows: This seemed a good opportunity to build a "vintage" TT to partner my Quad 33/303.

Last week I took delivery of a TD150 motor unit and lovely custom teak finish plinth that David (Moko) had rebuilt and very fine it is to. Motor is whisper quiet with perfect bearing/spindle and inner/outer platter. David uploaded pictures of his rebuild at http://s787.photobucket.com/albums/yy154/MokoMilk/Thorens%20TD150%20Rebuild/

I bought a NOS SME 3009 II improved and had it rewired and an RCA conversion kit fitted by J7 at Audio Origami - stunning service and what a nice chap.

The original Thorens arm board was cut for a REGA arm so I made a new one from Brazilian Teak and added a Sound Supports SME aluminium mounting plate. Cutting the rebate on the under surface of the bard was a bit fiddly but ended up perfectly flat when installed in the TD150. To keep a "period look" I lifted the Thorens armboard badge of the original and inset it into the new one then covered it with a thin sheet of clear acrylic.

David had made a very heavy thick base board which was a very snug fit into the plinth - the SME with RCA conversion required the board to be cut to take the tonearm cables and allow for forward/backward adjustment of the arm. To raise it up and keep the tonearm cable "grounding" on the shelf and to add further isolation I fitted a set of heavy adjustable brass spikes and feet. I also lifted the original sales label off the original base board David gave me and glued it to the new base board.

I fitted a new bearing thrust pad and original Torens drive belt, changed the oil and lubricated the motor spindle courtesy of Joel (ex Thorens Technician) at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JOEL-S-KIT-THORENS-TD-150-160-145-125-126-166-320-/290621721223?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43aa678a87#ht_585wt_966
and a new platter mat http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120768762628?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1249wt_966

Setting up the SME was a breeze - first SME I have ever owned and I must say adjusting the arm base rather than the cartridge to set tracking is so much easier. Tracking force calibration off the arm was spot on when I checked with a stylus force gauge as was the bias adjustment.

Leveling deck/platter was very straight forward thanks to the adjustable spikes and the tonearm lead is clear of the support below as planned. David had obviously set the suspension properly because it bounced just fine - I thought the new arm/armboard might throw it out but it didn't require any adjustment - just as well really as I remember from when i owned an LP12 you could chase your tail for hours - although I understand the Thorens is more forgiving in that regard.

I’d bought a new tonearm cable RCA-5-pin DIN from Flashback Sales where I purchased all my other Quad cables and it is perfect for the Thorens - it’s thin and flexible so does not interfere with the suspension and is fully screened - there is absolutely no hum/noise at all which J7 warned me could be a problem with certain cables.

There was the usual trepidation when connecting up a new piece if kit for the first time - especially after so much modification - will it work? - but needn’t have worried - all worked fine from switch on - my biggest concern regarding possible earth hum proved groundless ;) silent as the grave even with the volume knob fully clockwise.

So how does it sound? In a word wonderful. Just as I had hoped for really - it seems a perfect sonic (and visual) match for the Quad amp. Presentation is very detailed and dynamic - tending to the warm side of neutral but not overly so. Given the small size of the Ruark’s bass extension is very impressive, tight, tuneful and controlled. Cymbals/hi hat are crisp and clean - zingy - not a hint of splashiness. PRaT seem spot on - certainly to my ears - on complex pieces notes start and stop precisely with no “bleed” or overhang”. I’ve been playing a few “tester” albums (Dark Side, Pious Bird of Good Omen, Desire, Bob Seger Greatest Hits) smiling all the way.

Only thing left now is to sort out the dust cover. I’ve got the original but it needs lots of scratches polishing out and some new hinges fitted and then I’m done.

All in all a very satisfying project with a great outcome. :cool:




Steve

[Barry]

Well done Steve - looks great! You should be very pleased with all your hard work.

One question: where did you get the Thorens badges?

Regards

[Rare Bird]

I saw those badges on our fav auction place

[DSJR]

What a lovely transformation there and I LOVE the way you've dressed the exit cables :lol:

I have here a currently armless TD160mk2 looking very sorry for itself. The original plinth is ok but I hate the flat black vinyl they finished them off with. I have a "Super" MDF armboard but no means of drilling it accurately for an SME (I may ask my mate Dave W if I can use his drill-press :eyebrows: next time we get together). That mat really does look the biz and now I've seen it on a deck I can confidently recommend it (I know how good cork is as a mat material and £22 or so is a no brainer I reckon in this case).

Trouble is, is a TD160 going to be as good as the Td125, let alone possibly better???? If I had a couple of hundred to spend on a plinth, I'd probably get the 125 one Russ makes. The TD125 and 160 are still "sleeping" I think, because they need some setting up, but it shouldn't be too difficult these days to get at least Rega performance out of them as long as the main bearings are behaving themselves - the 150 was fine as I remember...

[DSJR]

P.S. Don't knock those old thorens arms either. The bearings on the units fitted to the 150 do need some lube to the horizontal shaft and careful adjustment to the vertical needle-races, but once done, they're really not at all bad for 1.75g trackers, perfect for an M97XE with damper brush for example...

The TP16 arm as pictured on the links is actually really good if you need a good medium mass arm. I've seen articles on re-wiring these (the headshell socket is secured by a pin and this can be carefully removed I understand, should you wish to re-wire) and the bearings, although possibly needing adjustment on many samples (in my experience), can be set very accurately for zero slop and low friction. The bias corrector is magnetic too on the 160 (thread and weight on the 166) and a little Ortofon stylus balance is all you need for fine tuning playing weight, as the little dial on top of the arm isn't quite accurate I remember. I've had these arms safely tracking a Shure V15 III, so a V15 SAS or M75 SAS would be fine at around 1.25g I think and the mass shouldn't be an issue either - I can't remember of some or all of these shells were cast, or whether Thorens went over to a precision plastic moulding later on..

The Thorens arms I'm deeply suspicious of were the versions with detachable arm-wands, which came in the mid to late 70's. A right fiddle to pack out with spacers etc and not very rigid. My mastering engineer friend has a TD147 Jubilee with V15VMR and he claims that this combination, playing later vinyl cuts of the Decca CD's he's mastered, sounds very close indeed to the original (and the CD) - oh alright, yabba yabba yabba............. ;)

[worrasf]

One question: where did you get the Thorens badges?

Regards


This Aussie on eBay makes them - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thorens-Badge-all-vintage-Thorens-custom-Plinth-SS-/280650945185?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item41581992a1#ht_1210wt_966

Very fast international delivery - recommended.

Steve

[worrasf]

What a lovely transformation there and I LOVE the way you've dressed the exit cables :lol:
.

Thanks - Funny thing is I spent ages hunting through my tins of bits looking for a few old Linn P-clips that I thought I had - couldn't find them - then recalled what a pig they were any way and what with the tonearm cable being much more flexible than the Linn one I reckoned I just needed a light fixing to dress the cables so as to prevent them grounding out the suspension while at the same time allowing flexibility for arm adjustment and as I had a bag of these lying around .... Works a treat even though not strictly kosher :lolsign:

Steve

[bobbasrah]

Lovely job. Beautifully done...
Looking at my old Thorens waiting on it's refurb, I feel justifiably guilty.....

[Rare Bird]

Thats a nice looking Teak veneer where did you get it Steve?

[worrasf]

Thats a nice looking Teak veneer where did you get it Steve?
Thanks - The teak veneer was applied by Moko - the armboard is solid Brazillian teak.

Steve

[DSJR]

As long as the cable dressing is working, it don't matter what it looks like...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/e0697d16.jpg

[Moko]

Wow that's a great job you have done there Steve and amazingly quickly.

The armboard really makes a huge improvement over the original black Thoren's one especially with that beautiful SME arm on it. Yes the baseboard is a tight fit but I liked to think it helped to make the plinth even more rigid.:eyebrows:

To answer about the Teak veneer I bought a couple of offcuts of Ebay but I can't remember from which seller.

Something I forgot to tell you the other day is that I looked up the serial number on this Thoren's and its exactly as old as me 44 years:)

[worrasf]

[QUOTE=Moko;260530
Something I forgot to tell you the other day is that I looked up the serial number on this Thoren's and its exactly as old as me 44 years:)[/QUOTE]

:wheniwasaboy:

The dust cover has polished up pretty well with plastic polish and I've heat-sealed the couple of cracks in the corners. I've sourced a pair of hinges that should do the trick - not original as won't fit so all being well will be done next week.

Steve

[worrasf]

The new plinth is a tad wider than standard and I did not have the original hinges - however, the original lid although a bit worse for wear polished up a treat with some plastic polish. There are a couple of cracks that repaired with superglue and a judicious hot screw driver blade and are hardly noticeable. The crack on the top of the lid at the right is hidden by a strategically placed Audio Origami decal :)

I sourced a couple of appropriately sized nylon hinges and some M3 nylon nuts and bolts from flea bay and all works fine. OK so it's not quickly detachable but a minor inconvenience for having the OEM lid fitted. :cool:

Steve

[DSJR]

I know what I wanted to ask you, after a PM exchange with Johnnie (AO). Did you keep the removed SME plug and socket bits? is so, would you sell 'em?

My SME is very sorry for itself at the mo. It has some fresh Pro-Ject wires inside (are they cr@p or adequate?) but the original four pin silver plated plug and socket have long gone, leaving the screening can and bracket but without the two screws that hold the socket in place.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/cb11b6e4.jpg

[Dingdong]

I might be able to help you out Dave. Will have a mooch in my cupboard of crap and get back to you.

[Barry]

I know what I wanted to ask you, after a PM exchange with Johnnie (AO). Did you keep the removed SME plug and socket bits? is so, would you sell 'em?

My SME is very sorry for itself at the mo. It has some fresh Pro-Ject wires inside (are they cr@p or adequate?) but the original four pin silver plated plug and socket have long gone, leaving the screening can and bracket but without the two screws that hold the socket in place.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/cb11b6e4.jpg

Maybe an opportunity to fit RCA phono connectors in place of the 4-pin Belling and Lee connector. No need to buy the expensive SME conversion kit; either make yourself an elliptical plate to hold the two sockets, or buy the equivalent from eBay.

[worrasf]

I know what I wanted to ask you, after a PM exchange with Johnnie (AO). Did you keep the removed SME plug and socket bits? is so, would you sell 'em?


Hi Dave,
Yes got them here - you can have them gratis if you want them :)

Steve

[DSJR]

Hi Dave,
Yes got them here - you can have them gratis if you want them :)

Steve

You sure guv'nor?

Barry, I already have an SME phono to phono lead with built-in caps, but I'm not going to have the dosh for any major bits for some considerable time methinks :(

The Thorens 160 at least, has little space underneath for modifications to the standard SME horizontal entry connections and even the nice little kit Alex bought a while ago adds half an inch or so to the depth - fine for his Garrard, but it won't work on the TD160, which itself is going to be a secondary thing for now.

Perhaps Barry, I should sell you my MMC20CL after all. I think I've given it around ten minutes use in twenty years and it was new then............

[Dingdong]

You sure guv'nor?



The Thorens 160 at least, has little space underneath for modifications to the standard SME horizontal entry connections and even the nice little kit Alex bought a while ago adds half an inch or so to the depth - fine for his Garrard, but it won't work on the TD160, which itself is going to be a secondary thing for now.


Get yourself a thick baseboard for it and cut an 'ole in it. While you're cutting 'oles make some below the springs as it makes adjustment a lot easier. And put some reasonable feet on it. Owt's better than the stuff they fitted as standard.

[Rare Bird]

You sure guv'nor?



Nice one Dave, good luck the Phono mod, it's well worth while.

Ps: do you know if the long signal pin original pattern SME phono plugs are still available to buy, i need them to look original but new if you get my drift?

[Rare Bird]

Get yourself a thick baseboard for it and cut an 'ole in it. While you're cutting 'oles make some below the springs as it makes adjustment a lot easier.

I never used a base board i made plinth to use with a modified Turntable wall shelf so it was all open underneith, dead easy to set up & no board to get in the way of sound

[rusty bearing]

Nice job, halfway through one of these myself, the arm rewire comes next. I'm also waiting on an engineering mate who owes me a favour or two to turn me some aluminium feet similar to the brass on yours. Polished up they'll match the polished platter.
Put the same cork mat on, very happy with that.
I suspect I've got the bug for 'home brewed' hi fi......:)

[Rare Bird]

Michell large tenderfeet would be a nice match for the platter

[rusty bearing]

Ta, thats the very things. I,ll investigate further......:thumbsup:

[worrasf]

You sure guv'nor?



Yep - no problem I'm not going to use them so best go to a good home. Let me know which bits you want - you can have the can as well if you want - the only thing I will hang onto is the base plate with the arm serial number.

PM me your mailing address and I'll put them in the post.

Steve