Senior CD-R's [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

WOStantonCS100

15-10-2011, 22:49

How old are your burned CD-R's? How old is your oldest CD-R and have you noticed and degradation in data?

Looking around, I've got (a bunch of) music burned to CD and am trying to keep tabs on it's longevity by measuring up against others real world experience as opposed to the manufacturers claimed life expectancy. I know I've got some that were burned as far back as '94.

Tim

16-10-2011, 00:02

The oldest I used to have were around 10 years, they were deteriorating and some became unplayable. All my music is now on hard disk drive and backed up and will be migrated to new drives when appropriate, probably every few years.

I don't keep anything on CD-R now for exactly this reason.

worthingpagan

16-10-2011, 07:02

I don't copy music at all, I buy the cd's, same with movies ;)

WOStantonCS100

16-10-2011, 09:19

I don't copy music at all, I buy the cd's, same with movies ;)

Not sure what you're gettin' at, champy... :) but, there's no freakin' way I'm re-purchasing any of this (and far more not pictured) on CD. If I want any of this on CD or tape I will make my own copy and not feel the slightest bit bad about it. ;)

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/TCKA1ESa/Picture012.jpg

Spectral Morn

16-10-2011, 11:28

Tim

16-10-2011, 15:28

I don't copy music at all, I buy the cd's, same with movies ;)
And that's exactly what you should do - that wasn't what the question was :doh:

synsei

16-10-2011, 17:52

I copy all my music onto hard drives without feeling a shred of guilt. There's no reason why anyone shouldn't back up their music collection, after all you've already paid for the rights to listen to the music so why the hell should you have pay for it again? I believe the law is about to be ratified to take copying for personal use into account :cool:

I think my oldest CDR is about 10 and it still plays as well as the day it was burnt. I have no idea of the brand though as it just has CDR printed on it so it was probably a cheapie.

Reid Malenfant

16-10-2011, 17:59

My oldest is a gold TDK CD W-12 one from 1993. Still working and no data issues.
I don't think i go quite that far back, however if you use decent media then there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I have no difficulty playing any Sony, Maxell, TDK or Verbatim CDRs that i have ever recorded to & i think i can safely say that that covers at least 13 years ;)

Arfa

19-10-2011, 08:52

All digital formats have a finite lifespan. Cheapo CD-R will only get you 5-10 years, a good brand maybe 10-20 years. CD-RW much less. Depends a lot on storage, temp, humidity, direct sunlight etc. Manufactures will claim 50 years for CD-R, but of course this is untested and is likely to be quite optimistic. If you ever take the disc out of climate controlled storage and actually use it, don't expect to get close to this...

I've had a few batches where the top label was the foil that was burnt - this top layer started to peel and left transparent unreadable patches on the disc!

Either way, you may get a while out of decent brand discs, but long term, you should start duplicating them to fresh media. Same applies to any digital format, DAT, tape backup, optical, hard disc, flash. Of the lot, magnetic backup tape is considered the most reliable with best longevity - generally 50 years. Downsides are, its slow to backup, and you'll need a tape drive that not only still works in 50 years time, but comes with a cable that fits the computer 50 year hence...

Butuz

25-10-2011, 21:58

A 93 vintage TDK Gold can never fail.

It's science!

Butuz

synsei

25-10-2011, 22:24

WOStantonCS100

26-10-2011, 03:25

For the record, I'm beginning to see deterioration in some of my early commercial CD's from the 1980's too. One, Rick Wakeman's, Journey To The Centre Of The Earth is almost unplayable. I do have backup copies however... :cool:

:doh: That sucks! That Wakeman album's a good one.

During my stint at a record shop (2004-ish??), I came across enough DG/Archiv classical and a few Polydor CD's that suffered from "pin-hole" deterioration, to seriously reconsider purchasing any. In fact, I don't think I've purchased any since then. I'm sure they've long since worked those bugs out; but, there were a bunch of them that we couldn't sell and ended up in the bin. :(

synsei

26-10-2011, 08:26

The deterioration on the Rick Wakeman CD is of a kind I have seen on some cheap cdr's. It begins in the foil at the edges of the disk with a discolouration which then leads on to gradual and increasing loss.

I must say that this is the first time I've encountered it to such a degree on a commercial pressing so I guess that's encouraging at least. There are a couple more CD's showing slight signs of discolouration at the disk edge so I'm keeping a wary eye on them. I've been busy backing them up onto my hard drive for the past few days because some are difficult, if not impossible to get these days.

I'm with you on Journey to the Centre of the Earth, it is an excellent album. I first heard it after my Dad bought the album back in the '70's. He went to see the show with a couple of his clients and he didn't stop raving about it for weeks. I also have The Myths and Legends of King Arthur. I've not got Six Wives though, for some reason I never really got on with it :scratch:

bobbasrah

26-10-2011, 15:10

I've not got Six Wives though, for some reason I never really got on with it

Nuff said I guess...

Reid Malenfant

26-10-2011, 17:32

For the record, I'm beginning to see deterioration in some of my early commercial CD's from the 1980's too. One, Rick Wakeman's, Journey To The Centre Of The Earth is almost unplayable. I do have backup copies however... :cool:
I had a whole bunch of CDs go bad a while back. I can't remember where i saw it but the firm that originally pressed all these discs didn't seal the edges properly, the end result was brown & blackening aluminised layer that was eaten by oxidisation :eek:

Anyway, i spotted this somewhere & the firm took back all the dodgy CDs & supplied me with brand new ones up to spec. Must have sent them about 15 - 20 discs including the Ltd edition 3CD set of Banco de Gaia Last Train To Lhasa :rolleyes:

I sure i mentioned this on here previously & someone knew what i was refering to, all the CDs were pressed in the UK by a firm called PDO...

Tim

27-10-2011, 19:37

Reid Malenfant

27-10-2011, 19:49

There was an article about this very same subject in last months Computer Shopper. They recommended a maximum of 10 years for optical discs but they should be checked regularly after 5 years and 5 years for storage on a hard drive, before backing up to a new drive.
I can understand it with a hard drive copy Tim, I'm not so sure about an original CD though ;)

Don't you think it may well just be some kind of way of selling more CDs prompted by the manufacturers?

I mean in all honesty every CD i own shows no sign of damage (oxidisation) other than the ones that got replaced which didn't get sealed at the edges so oxygen did it's thing...

If you are refering to CDRs then again I'm not to sure... How can a melted by a laser layer alter itself?

Then again I think I'll shut up, glass flows over time, it's not a solid :doh:

Over & out :eyebrows:

Tim

27-10-2011, 20:16

This is CD-R's Mark, not pucker audio CD's - I can vouch for them deteriorating myself as it's happened to me. It's the dye that deteriorates on the CD-R's, but you should not have a problem with shop bought audio ones. I used to store and backup data to CD-R years ago, but gave up when some failed. I always had at least two copies, so I have never lost data yet, but I'm very careful about backing up.

Reid Malenfant

27-10-2011, 20:29

I thought so Tim, after all it was what the OP was asking about ;)

I don't think i have had a problem with any of mine, other than Traxdata Audio CDRs...

Says a lot doesn't it :eyebrows: Covering a bit of old ground here, audio CD recorders generally don't like PC type CD roms, they'll reject them, the reason why as far as i have come to know is that they don't have enough 'wobble' in the track :rolleyes:

Now what i used to do with my Traxdata CD recorder was calibrate with a proper audio disc & go to record pause. I then carefully pulled out the tray & replace said audio CDR with a PC type CD rom & pushed the draw back in...

Let recording commence :eyebrows:

I always used good quality CD roms, TDK, Sony, Maxell etc... I have had no problems with any in 15 years, yet the audio CDRs are beginning to be a bit problematic...

As far as i know the audio CD recorder recognises an audio CDR by the amount of wobble on the track, read a good bit & hense why it can't record at high speed :lol:

Sounds superb for drive longentivity doesn't it :mental: Laser going hither & tither to track things... Jeez :rolleyes:

Tim

27-10-2011, 21:42

Funny, but most of my duds are Maxell - the gold coloured music ones :scratch: Mind you I bought them in a very old fashioned hardware store in The Cayman Islands and they have been subjected to some extremes of temperature and a few journey's by air and sea to get them back here :lol:

Stratmangler

27-10-2011, 21:51

I sure i mentioned this on here previously & someone knew what i was refering to, all the CDs were pressed in the UK by a firm called PDO...

Philips DuPont Optical had a pressing plant up here in Lancashire, and that's the plant you're talking about.
I've not lost too many commercial CDs to CD rot, but I have had a number of CDRs become unreadable.

Reid Malenfant

28-10-2011, 16:12

Funny, but most of my duds are Maxell - the gold coloured music ones :scratch:
Do you mean proper CDRs for audio recording in a CD recorder? If so they are the only ones i have a problem with as i mentioned. The machines recognise them as there is a hell of a lot more wobble on the track that the laser has to follow, can't be good for the laser having to gig about @ high speed either :(

Reid Malenfant

28-10-2011, 16:14

Philips DuPont Optical had a pressing plant up here in Lancashire, and that's the plant you're talking about.
I've not lost too many commercial CDs to CD rot, but I have had a number of CDRs become unreadable.
Ah, yet again Chris brings more clarity to a subject :)

Thanks very much :youtheman:

Stratmangler

28-10-2011, 16:42

Ah, yet again Chris brings more clarity to a subject :)

Thanks very much :youtheman:

You're welcome :)

PDO has changed hands several times, and the general CD swap (bad discs for good) that used to take place has now ceased.
However, some of the labels that used PDO to press CDs may still replace rotted CDs, so it's still possible to get some kind of disc exchange going on.