Celestion DL10's - A classic waiting to be appreciated?

[The Black Adder]

Hi guys.

I've dug out my late farthers Celestion DL10's the other day and what a great sounding speaker. Very monitor sounding.

I've been after a pair for ages but after some persuasion my mum decided that she wanted some smaller speakers.. :eyebrows: Which she does anyway.

They haven't been used for a while so when I got them out of the box I was very surprised in the weight and quality of them.

Similar in size to the Harbeth SHL5's and sporting a 10" bass unit, a 6" mid and the legendary titanium dome tweeter. They are cast metal baskets with paper cones too.

So... in sound quality terms what are these like? Well... they are totally different beasts than my Tannoys so I'm not going to compare here but the sound is superb! Very much like the SHL5's (of which I've previously compared too) except that the bass reflex is on the rear and not the front like the SHL5's.

Bought in 1984 from Superfi in Sheffield these were originally partnered with a Trio hifi delivering 50wpc and boasting the first ever CD player by Trio (Kenwood).

Now they are being driven by my Glenn Croft Quad II's and basic 25 pre and it's not until you get something like this driving them that you can really appreciate the DL10's.

Looking on the net and doing a search for the DL10's you will find more adverts for sale of them than anything but you will also find more people saying that they regret selling their DL10's too.

So, I want to put these speakers in a new light. One person on a forum said 'the DL10's are great speakers but not audiophile'... A very grey statement if it was ever a statement in the first place because if that's the case I need to be re-educated in to what an audiophile speaker truly is.

I think a great speaker should give drama, space and dynamics and make you feel the music. These do all of that but in a Celestion way like the Harbeths and Tannoys do it in their way.

[DSJR]

The lower DL models were well liked and my mate in the US is very much enjoying some DL8's he tells me.

Go for it, but you know you've consigned these to rocket in value now, along with Ditton 44's et al :(

[The Black Adder]

lol.. Well, there isn't much on the net about them to be honest. The DL8's are a great speaker too my friend has a pair still going strong and being driven by an Audio Note.

These speakers are great for valve amps too.

Specifications of the DL10:


Ported, 3-way, 10-inch woofers, 6 1/2-inch midrange and 1 1/4-inch dome tweeters.
Sensitivity at 91db
Frequency response is 45-22 khz. + and - 3db.
Recommended Minimum amplifier power: 10 watts, maximum: open.
Nominal impedance: 8 ohms.
Dimension: 720 x 340 x 300mm
weight is 43 lbs each (20kg's each)

[Welder]

Well that’s just bloody typical! :rolleyes:
Just coz you’ve got to get rid of yer bloody overrated Tannoys, you’ve gone round yer mums and picked on her kit ffs.
I’ll tell you right here and now my kids aint getting my HI Fi :ner:


(glad I've got girlies if this is how sons behave :doh: )

[The Black Adder]

lol... well, they were free.

Watch ya tongue n all you...haha... Tannoys are luvley. None of your overated Custom 3 way Monitors,Volt 250 bass&ABR, Scanspeak 13M8621Mid & D2905/9300Hi

Bet they sound like a bag 'o' spanners! :p

[Reid Malenfant]

Bet they sound like a bag 'o' spanners! :p
I bet they do to :eyebrows:

When the CD playing is a recording of a bag of spanners ;)

[The Black Adder]

haha... BBC sound effects RULE!

[Wakefield Turntables]

It sounds like the older celestions are worth a look. I bought my 15's of a car boot for £30 I think. I've spent about another £30 rewiring, new binding posts. i managed to scrounge some sorbothane to dampen them down further and also some old foam which happened to be in the garage. I got some new caps of Andre (BIG THANKS!) and they sound totally new. Previously I'd slagged celestion stuff off but with a fettle they do sound very good so I can only speculate that the bigger speakers sound even better. I would strongly consider fettling the speakers and rebuilding your cross overs. My celestions are now in my second setup and I think I'll be keeping them!!

[Rare Bird]

DL10! what are they then :D

[The Black Adder]

It sounds like the older celestions are worth a look. I bought my 15's of a car boot for £30 I think. I've spent about another £30 rewiring, new binding posts. i managed to scrounge some sorbothane to dampen them down further and also some old foam which happened to be in the garage. I got some new caps of Andre (BIG THANKS!) and they sound totally new. Previously I'd slagged celestion stuff off but with a fettle they do sound very good so I can only speculate that the bigger speakers sound even better. I would strongly consider fettling the speakers and rebuilding your cross overs. My celestions are now in my second setup and I think I'll be keeping them!!

Cheers.. Hmm.. your right. I think a fettle is on the cards for the crossover although I'm sure they will be fine.

Thing is I've no idea how to do that so I'd need someone to make them for me. If you know of anyone do let me know. I could post some pics of the crossovers and ask for advice I suppose, it can't be that difficult.

Internal foam looks brand new but is there anything out there that can be an improvement? Again, no idea if there is.

What did you use sorbothane for?

[Welder]

On a more serious note, it is a total pain moving home with regard to the Hi Fi and I do wish you the best of luck in sorting out an acceptable sound from whatever kit you end up with. :)

An I’ll have you know I got no firkin spannwers in my custom enclosures thank you very much :ner:

[The Black Adder]

lol... thanks matey. It's a real pain moving house. So much stuff to think about.. and then hifi... jeez.

Well, I'm going to go with these Celestions for a while but still thinking of what I can do with the Tannoys. Love em to bits.

Nah.. your kit sounds tops matey... No spanners inside.

[Welder]

Oh I’m sry Andre, you’re quite right, it’s a stereo. Do they have these up your way, or just in mono prolly (?) :ner:

:lolsign:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Cheers.. Hmm.. your right. I think a fettle is on the cards for the crossover although I'm sure they will be fine.

Thing is I've no idea how to do that so I'd need someone to make them for me. If you know of anyone do let me know. I could post some pics of the crossovers and ask for advice I suppose, it can't be that difficult.

Internal foam looks brand new but is there anything out there that can be an improvement? Again, no idea if there is.

What did you use sorbothane for?


1. The cross is pretty easy if you can use a soldering iron. My knowledge about electronics is very basic, I've just bought a couple of books to try and get a grasp. I've even "hard-wired" the celestion cross over. Yeah, for all the guys that are super wizards at this topic, dont laugh!!! I'm only just starting out :lolsign: Post some picks and lets see what we have!

2. Just shove more foam in there.

3. I had some spare sorbothane so I attached it to the speakers top and sides and behind the drivers (tweeter and base unit) to stop vibrations from the cabinet going into the driver units. I used 1mm sorbothane but you can also use any urethane if you can get your hands on it.


ok guys I'm now buggering off to walk the dog, have some Sunday dinner, laters!

[DSJR]

Don't just bodge around without having an idea of what you want to do. Those Celestion engineers were'nt bloody amateurs you know and knew how much wadding/foam to put in the boxes. Too much is as bad as too little you know - been there and done it guv'nor :)

Some pics of the crossovers would be nice. I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours :eyebrows:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/eb09be34.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/1abaf43e.jpg

[The Black Adder]

ok here is the DL10 (s2) crossover. Can anyone tell me what to replace and what with.. if anything?

Also a pic of the bass driver... nice cast basket.

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/musical_submarine/Celestion%20DL10/DSC05374.jpg

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/musical_submarine/Celestion%20DL10/DSC05375.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Joe, you should definately replace the 4uf Alcap near the bottom of the picture as that nasty thing is feeding the tweeter from what i can make out ;)

Are these things three way? If so can you get pics of where the leads are going? A view of the rear of the PCB would be good to! Make sure you have the leads visible coming off of the PCB :)

[The Black Adder]

Hi Mark.

Yeah they are 3 way. The yellow and black go to the bass driver. The red and black (HF+ & HF-) go to the tweeter and the brown and black go to the mid range.

Would it be better to just replace all of the caps? - Also, can these crossovers be improved at all, or I should say upgraded/updated? If so what components would I need?

[Reid Malenfant]

I'd suggest that you only need to really fuss over the ones that are feeding drivers & not so much the ones in parallel ;) There will be a capacitor feeding the midrange unit & while i'd hazard a guess & suggest it could be the 20uf cap i'd still like to see the back of the PCB so i can follow the tracks & see exactly what is going on...

I don't want to make a mistake, so a little time from you will help in confirming things chap :)

Hope that helps matey!

[The Black Adder]

no probs.. Makes total sense Mark. I'll get a pic of the back of the board tomorrow.

[Wakefield Turntables]

You could rewire the thing with some decent copper if you wanted and cover this with Teflon, admittedly not as good as silver but you'd notice a difference. The inductors could be left alone (this seemed to be the advice from a few people who I talked to when I was doing the 15xr's). Recapping and rewiring will make a nice difference and one thats quite cheap and easy to do as well!

[technobear]

Three ruddy pages and no pictures of the speakers!

:worthless:

[The Black Adder]

lol.. Pics of the speakers will be tomorrow too Chris.

Andrew... that sounds like static to me mate but I'd love to give it a try for a substantial improvement... or (more realistically) get someone to make some for me. Maybe NickG can?

[The Black Adder]

Hi Mark.. Here is the reverse and I've labeled the wires too... I was wrong in my previous post regarding the high and mid so ignore that.. oops!

Front
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/musical_submarine/DSC05377copy.jpg

Back
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/musical_submarine/DSC05381copy.jpg

[The Black Adder]

Here are some pics I did earlier, better ones tomorrow.

10" bass driver, 6" mid driver and a 1.5" Titanium tweeter. Even the tweeter plate surround is cast metal :)
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/musical_submarine/DSC05379.jpg

The Tweeter
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/musical_submarine/DSC05385.jpg

[DSJR]

Apart from considering replacing the Alcap electrolytics, may I suggest adding wire links on the circuit tracks, as the tracks do look a bit flimsy - possibly...

These speakers wuld have been carefully designed by experts, so don't feel the need to go totally mad with them please ;)

[The Black Adder]

That sounds like a good idea Dave as my Tannoy crossovers are point to point. is it just the case of joining each joint with wire and keeping the tracks working? If so, what gauge wire is best here?

Not going mad, just thee crossover needs updating, everything else will remain the same.

One thing I have notivced about the construction of the cabs is that the mid and the tweeter compartments are tubular and made out of some kind of MDF. Never seen that before.

[DSJR]

0.8mm solid core should be enough. Obviously, bare copper will tarnish, so, although it's a pain to solder, annealed copper wire as used in the coils will be excellent I reckon..

[Wakefield Turntables]

Joe,

Maplin do some good solid core copper. You might need a large store as it appears some of the smaller stores dont stock much in the way of shielded cables. They also do some silver plated, high purity pure copper wires if your interested?? You'd only need several meters. ;)

[The Black Adder]

Thanks Andrew. I'm actually thinking of ordering the parts today from HIFICOLLECTIVE as it's too busy in town and I'm out of the way here. I'm confident of doing the job, done stuff like this before I just need a parts list. (wish I had learned more about electronics now)

Would you or anyone be able to help me and point me to the right parts on their website?

Also, the cabling to the speakers looks like decent stuff, is that something to leave alone, it wouldn't take much to change it really.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Also, the cabling to the speakers looks like decent stuff, is that something to leave alone, it wouldn't take much to change it really.


Joe,

I had never ever refurbished a set of speakers until I did the 15xr's. Its very very easy. I dismantled the 15's and just figured out where everything went and took loads of photo's to act as reminders. Recabling the speakers is very very easy. Its just a matter of remembering where the cable goes from the x-o to each driver. I bought a pair of Wharfdale XP3's which have a slightly more complicated x-o than my celestion 15xr's simply because I wanted to understand how the x-o worked (incidently Wikipedia do a good page explaining the various x-o types). Good lucj mate !

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Joe, cheers for the pictures ;) I can confirm that it is indeed the 20uf that you need to change that feeds the midrange unit...

All the others appear to be parallel with the drivers & while they may well make a small difference to the sound, they'll have nowhere near the effect of the ones in line with the drive units :)

[The Black Adder]

Hi Mark.

I thought I might as well change the lot to be honest seeing as they will be out anyway. Thing is I can't see any 45uf or 8uf caps on hificollective.

The ones I've found are these, are these ok?

(CAP-20u600) - 20uF 600V MIEC Axial Electrolytic Capacitor
(CAP-4u600) - 4uF 600V MIEC Axial Electrolytic Capacitor

[technobear]

8 uF is available in the Clarity Cap SA range:

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/claritycap_sa.html

47 uF is close enough to 45.

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Joe, i'll have a look about fella ;) You really don't want to be fitting any kind of electrolytic again unless forced to :cool:

[The Black Adder]

oh i see.. Ok Mark, thanks.

[The Black Adder]

Hi Joe, i'll have a look about fella ;) You really don't want to be fitting any kind of electrolytic again unless forced to :cool:

Cheers matey, not badly priced either. Do the values have to be identical?

[Welder]

Hi Joe. :)

I’ve not had any problems using higher voltage rated caps as long as the capacitance value is the same; there may even be some benefit with regard to cap life doing this.
What I think can matter is matching the ESR value.
Also, when upgrading crossovers, particularly when changing to polypropylene caps people tend to go for tighter tolerance caps and this isn’t necessarily a good thing particularly with speakers that have had some care taken in the listening and tuning process.
Midrange and hi frequency drivers seem to benefit most from the upgrade to polypropylene caps while the low frequency drivers seem to be happy enough with the speed of decent electrolytics; handy given the price of high capacitance value polypropylene's.

You can of course shop at Hi Fi Collective, but if you fancy saving yourself a few quid these people are good, know about their stock and sell high quality caps but without the audiophile names and price tags.

http://www.audiocap.co.uk/400v-polyprops-icel-phc-series-22-c.asp


So, match capacitance, tolerance and go for something with low ESR values would seem sensible.

Oh arr, if you're going to hardwire the tufnol boards are excellent, they'll even pre drill and sort the layout for you.

http://www.qtasystems.co.uk/crossovers.htm

[Wakefield Turntables]

John,

thanks for the links to the 2 websites, I have book marked them for future projects :eyebrows:

[ranxerox]

My actual first post at the forums so be gentle.:)
Sorry for bringing back such an old thread but I believe that old equipment that had more than the average attention of the original designer deserve a little more than collecting dust and rust in a basement.
I am trying to refurbish for some six months a pair of DL 10 (series one I suppose). Their boxes were fine , added some bitumen pads in several places and new foam, some new screws with inserts holding the drivers in place with inserts on the baffles. Bass and midrange drivers in excellent condition but tweeter missing and was replaced by a cheap no name that threw away. I replaced them with a pair of JBL control 28 spare I found that do the job but something is always missing to my ears.
Recently I found I pair of original T4816 celestion 1" 1/4" tweeter that hope will sing a lot better than the JBLs.
So now I'm ready for some rewiring and restoring the crossover which I have a doubt that it is in its' original condition. And that is where my question goes. Can anyone of the above participants of the thread post a pic of the crossover or has the exact values of the capacitors and the white blocks fitted so I an replace the old ones.
Here's a pic of mine if it helps and thank you in advance.
please note that theactual name of the speakers is SP9 instead of DL10 but are exactly the same.
capacitor values 6.8mf , 4.7mf, 22mf and unknown SIEMENS B41020
https://i.imgur.com/ESzvysP.jpg

[The Black Adder]

Good to see this thread resurrected.

Great speakers are the DL-10's