View Full Version : A Few 1210 Upgrades And The Blues..
woodchamber
07-10-2011, 18:06
I don't know maybe it is just a wrong day for me, but i got today my 1210 back with a JELCO SA-750D arm and new through-going cabels and a DIY-PSU. Then i install the Funk Firm Achomat, Isonoes but the "before/after" differents is not really there for me. mmm maybe too high expectations ?? Strange day..:cool:
Spectral Morn
07-10-2011, 18:45
I don't know maybe it is just a wrong day for me, but i got today my 1210 back with a JELCO SA-750D arm and new through-going cabels and a DIY-PSU. Then i install the Funk Firm Achomat, Isonoes but the "before/after" differents is not really there for me. mmm maybe too high expectations ?? Strange day..:cool:
What cartridge are you using with it? Have you removed the old transformer from the inside of the turntable? are the Isonoes screwed in too tightly? did you use a dedicated alignment gauge for the arm cart set up?
The arm cart interface is important and while it is easy to rebel against the collective wisdom by tying something else my own experience would confirm the Denon 103 as being a particularly good match. However phonostage + headshell are also important factors in this.
Leaving the old transformer inside will reduce the level of performance.
Too tight Isonoes can spoil the sound. Also them not sitting on glass can ruin the sound. Anyone with wood shelves should use the glass coasters underneath.
Until I got a Mint Tractor for the Technics Jelco none of my alignment protractors really worked right with the Technics. I have a big collection of such and I was a bit skeptical about the Mint till I tried one and then bought it.
I must say I struggled a bit with the Technics decks myself until I tried a few of the recommended set ups and frankly the synergy already discovered works well.
However depending on systems there is still a wee bit of room for other options.
Regards D S D L
woodchamber
07-10-2011, 20:38
Thanks Neil for your answer.
I use the Goldring 1042 cartridge.
No the old transformer is still in the 1210. I told the guy to remove it, but i think he thought it is not so important.
I use the headshell that was delivered with the 750.
I loosen more the Isonoes, there where way too tight..
The tractor is use is a German one and called Schön and its known as a solid one here. http://www.dos-hifi.de/html/_schonschablone_typ_2.html
Well i guess it is path where you have to acquire a better sound ...
Spectral Morn
07-10-2011, 21:36
Thanks Neil for your answer.
I use the Goldring 1042 cartridge.
No the old transformer is still in the 1210. I told the guy to remove it, but i think he thought it is not so important.
I use the headshell that was delivered with the 750.
I loosen more the Isonoes, there where way too tight..
The tractor is use is a German one and called Schön and its known as a solid one here. http://www.dos-hifi.de/html/_schonschablone_typ_2.html
Well i guess it is path where you have to acquire a better sound ...
The Goldring 1012 is a nice MM cart, the better 42 styli raises the bar quite a bit but I am not sure how well it works in the 750 arm....
A lot of folks tighten the Isonoes up too much. Removing the transformer will help as will the other things but they are icing on the cake bar the Cart arm interface which is vital.
It maybe you don't like the sound of the Technics, did you like it before the changes? or maybe you don't like the new additions but I get that you just don't think there has been a change/improvement in sound quality and frankly even if the synergy is a bit off the items you have on your Technics now should be better than the standard deck. So if not, something is badly off and I suspect its the arm/cart match.
However I would like Marco to comment on this as he has tried a lot more carts in a 750 arm than I have.
Regards D S D L
Florian - one point that you may have missed. It is *imperative* that the Achromat has a tight bond with the platter. If there is an air gap it will ruin your sound. You can either use thin double-sided sticky tape or (better) use a thin film of petroleum jelly between the mat and the platter.
It makes a big difference, trust me.
woodchamber
08-10-2011, 08:04
Hey Tim
I used the thin double-sided sticky tape that was with the delivery of the Achromat. The thin film of petroleum jelly sound interesting. Where did you get it or whats the name of the brand?
The thing is that i have two 1210 for over 10 years. Since i'm on the Hifi trail no i upgrade all parts in my chain so far, except of the turntable because i love the Techys. I can't leave them stone cold behind me, so i thought will upgrade one player. Yesterday when i get the TT back with the new Jelco arm i made later in the evening a A/B test with the one who got no upgrades. Well there can be a difference but in my view it is so less that i was quite disappointed.
Maybe i adjustment the arm totally wrong, but i went through all steps to do it so good as possible with my skills. i will try it a second time..
so far thanks for your support Martin & Neil
sq225917
08-10-2011, 08:11
vaseline
The Grand Wazoo
08-10-2011, 08:19
This guy might let you have some of his:
http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/98678/vaseline.jpg
Yes - Vaseline (or any similar baby product) :)
woodchamber
08-10-2011, 10:01
so the petroleum jelly was a joke. i didn't get it so quicky because of the language barrier..
sorry mats, you never know what tools you can find in the hifi-world.
The Grand Wazoo
08-10-2011, 10:06
No, not a joke - the Vaseline holds the mat on the platter with surface tension. It was discussed at some length on a thread here. Martin tried it & has 'stuck' with it since then. Others too, I believe.
Stratmangler
08-10-2011, 10:11
http://aleksandreia.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/vaseline.jpg
The Grand Wazoo
08-10-2011, 10:13
It's buried in here somewhere:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8258&highlight=petroleum+jelly
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8639&highlight=petroleum+jelly
so the petroleum jelly was a joke
Not a joke! I really do use it between the platter and mat. It forms a tight bond, very hard to separate and makes the deck sound superb :)
woodchamber
08-10-2011, 11:06
ok hey just did another adjustment of the arm. i have the feel now it is way much better..:) it was a bit wrong before..
Spectral Morn
08-10-2011, 11:46
ok hey just did another adjustment of the arm. i have the feel now it is way much better..:) it was a bit wrong before..
I must say until I got the Mint tractor (review of my experiences here http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/05/12/2010/the-mint-lp-best-tractor-making-cartridge-alignment-accurate/) I was not hearing my Technics right either (I don't have any experience of your alignment protractor so I am not saying its bad) + the lack of quality instructions (almost none) with the Jelco make it hard to get things right.
Hope you are on the right track now.
Regards D S D L
I like the Mint Tractor too, the only problem is you have to have another one made if you change arms :(
woodchamber
08-10-2011, 14:13
Another phenomenon i have since the upgrades now, what i didn't had before, are electrostatic clicks when i just move the arm over a running record without the needle touching the vinyl or the record is playing. sometimes often, sometimes nothing. Does this has to do with the Achomat? :scratch:
I doubt it. Just treat your records to a clean with a carbon fibre brush and store them in Nagaoka inner sleeves and you'll never suffer from static.
Spectral Morn
08-10-2011, 17:09
I like the Mint Tractor too, the only problem is you have to have another one made if you change arms :(
Though when you think about Yip's argument about this makes sense, anyway few of us change arms that often.
Regards D S D L
Spectral Morn
08-10-2011, 17:11
Another phenomenon i have since the upgrades now, what i didn't had before, are electrostatic clicks when i just move the arm over a running record without the needle touching the vinyl or the record is playing. sometimes often, sometimes nothing. Does this has to do with the Achomat? :scratch:
Ahhhh me thinks you need to wire an earthwire to the arm plate as was the case with the original arm and in the same spot. I have that with my jelco equipped Technics and no pops or static. Mine is wired up with an Origin Live power supply.
Regards D S D L
woodchamber
10-10-2011, 09:36
Can someone explain me the reason why is it better to remove the inside transformer when i use a PSU? Is doesn't change the weight too much of the Techy when you remove it? And so far i understand when the inside transformer doesn't get any power there is also no magnetic field?
Thank you to all here so far for the support and especially Neil, yes you are right the arm has no grounding..!! :thumbsup:
Keep On
Florian
It's still a large mass of iron, subject to eddy currents and residual magnetic fields. Not something you want just below the cartridge.
woodchamber
10-10-2011, 10:17
Thank you Martin, but isn't the transformer on the other side and not below the cartridge?
It is not directly below, but close enough. I strongly recommend that you remove it.
It's also shielded from the platter and therefore the cartridge, but that doesn't stop people removong it - it's the "done thing" don't you know :)
In fairness, the only reason to keep the originbal transformer there is if you wished to revert back to original use.
It's also shielded from the platter and therefore the cartridge, but that doesn't stop people removong it - it's the "done thing" don't you know :)
Indeed - and for a bloody good reason! The mains transformer may be "shielded from the platter and therefore the cartridge", in the 'biblical' sense, but it's obviously pretty ineffectual, as the sonic effect of removing it is easily heard!!
You wouldn't know, daftee, as you've never tried it (as others and I have), so switch that cynical head of yours off and listen to those who speak from experience! ;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
10-10-2011, 14:23
Removing the transformer also enables more moddding to be done to the main pcb when relevant upgrades are released + you can weight the scrap metal in and probably pay for another upgrade of some description :lol:
Indeed - and for a bloody good reason! The mains transformer may be "shielded from the platter and therefore the cartridge", in the 'biblical' sense, but it's obviously pretty ineffectual, as the sonic effect of removing it is easily heard!!
You wouldn't know, daftee, as you've never tried it (as others and I have), so switch that cynical head of yours off and listen to those who speak from experience! ;)
Marco.
Even when the transformer is disconnected completely from the circuit?
I stand corrected...
I do like Rexton's subsequent post - now THAT's more like it :lol:
:respect: to all :)
Stratmangler
10-10-2011, 18:55
Even when the transformer is disconnected completely from the circuit?
And what is a transformer ?
It's got magnetic properties whether it's connected up or not :doh:
It's got magnetic properties whether it's connected up or not :doh:
It's what I was saying earlier. Nasty big lump of metal - get rid of it!
Spectral Morn
10-10-2011, 19:47
Can someone explain me the reason why is it better to remove the inside transformer when i use a PSU? Is doesn't change the weight too much of the Techy when you remove it? And so far i understand when the inside transformer doesn't get any power there is also no magnetic field?
Thank you to all here so far for the support and especially Neil, yes you are right the arm has no grounding..!! :thumbsup:
Keep On
Florian
No problem Florian, you are very welcome.
Regards D S D L
Reid Malenfant
10-10-2011, 19:54
Nasty big lump of metal - get rid of it!
If you want rid of your Chord i'll take it off of your hands & i won't even charge you ;)
:eyebrows:
Not my beauty! Never! Unless, of course, you'll swap it for a pair of SPM-1400E monoblocks...
woodchamber
10-10-2011, 22:33
Is there something special to consider between the external PSU and the connection inside of the 1210 what's easy to overlook..?? Wednesday the inside transformer will be removed.. :cool:
woodchamber
10-10-2011, 22:46
Too tight Isonoes can spoil the sound. Also them not sitting on glass can ruin the sound. Anyone with wood shelves should use the glass coasters underneath.
I totally overlooked you comment!! so i need one of these??
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Isonoe-Instrument-Glass-Sorbothane-Boots-Set-4-/390292071003?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_EquipmentSt ands_SM&hash=item5adf38625b
Yes my Techy stand on wood
My Techie Isonoes are on wood. I bought the glass coasters but prefer the sound on wood!
And what is a transformer ?
It's got magnetic properties whether it's connected up or not :doh:
But but but it's SHIELDED... Oh, shut up DSJR!!!!!
Seriously, if you lot have found a sonic difference in removing a disconnected transformer, then that's what it's all about. It's not exactly difficult to remove either, is it?
Spectral Morn
11-10-2011, 09:27
I totally overlooked you comment!! so i need one of these??
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Isonoe-Instrument-Glass-Sorbothane-Boots-Set-4-/390292071003?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_EquipmentSt ands_SM&hash=item5adf38625b
Yes my Techy stand on wood
In my set up I prefer the glass coasters under the Isonoes (both on a Granite surface and an RDC one) but in other systems a different result might be the case such as in Martin's system. Worth trying.
Regards D S D L
Spectral Morn
11-10-2011, 09:31
But but but it's SHIELDED... Oh, shut up DSJR!!!!!
Seriously, if you lot have found a sonic difference in removing a disconnected transformer, then that's what it's all about. It's not exactly difficult to remove either, is it?
I was skeptical about this but having done it there is a difference, small but worth having as it is all cumulative.
Regards D S D L
But but but it's SHIELDED...
Obviously not very well, eh, if folk can still hear a genuine sonic improvement once it's been removed??!!!??
Oh, shut up DSJR!!!!!
When you insist on posting pish, such as the above, despite knowledgeable and experienced folk telling you differently (i.e. the facts of the matter), then YES! :ner:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
11-10-2011, 19:02
My Techie Isonoes are on wood. I bought the glass coasters but prefer the sound on wood!
This is quite interesting. I thought about messing around with some wood or glass coasters but never got round to it. I used to have 6mm of sorbothane under my isonoes but hated the sound. It sounds like the Isonoes prefer a "stiff" surface so perhaps we should be looking for a cheap stiff material. A list can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%27s_modulus. If this is correct then a good old bit of stainless under your Isonoes may work even better. This could be my next little tweek whilst I wait for my other upgrades coming from Scotland :eyebrows:
woodchamber
11-10-2011, 21:07
Is there something special to consider between the external PSU and the connection inside of the 1210 what's easy to overlook..??
:scratch:
woodchamber
12-10-2011, 16:29
Well folks, no more inside transformer in my Techie. New adjustment of the arm and grounding. Isonoes not too tight, and finally Vaseline on the Archomat haha... It's sounding sweet all together... Just listing and checking..:concertina:
woodchamber
21-10-2011, 22:29
The last days i got two very nice things that improve my Techie chain a lot. New old stock Nagaoka OS-300 moving permalloy cartridge & the Aikido Phono 1+ phono pre amplifier. Everything is much clearer an detailed than before. Bigger open soundstage. That get me in the mood to switch my Welter Wt-500 6C33 tube mono blocks on... I 'm afraid of the heavy King Tubby bass lines i'm hearing now..:sofa:
This is quite interesting. I thought about messing around with some wood or glass coasters but never got round to it. I used to have 6mm of sorbothane under my isonoes but hated the sound. It sounds like the Isonoes prefer a "stiff" surface so perhaps we should be looking for a cheap stiff material. A list can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%27s_modulus. If this is correct then a good old bit of stainless under your Isonoes may work even better. This could be my next little tweek whilst I wait for my other upgrades coming from Scotland :eyebrows: My Techie sits on Isonoes, which in turn sit on SDS feet (3" x 3" steel plates and the SDS plates definately made an improvement to the sound:cool:
I must say until I got the Mint tractor (review of my experiences here http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/05/12/2010/the-mint-lp-best-tractor-making-cartridge-alignment-accurate/) I was not hearing my Technics right either (I don't have any experience of your alignment protractor so I am not saying its bad) + the lack of quality instructions (almost none) with the Jelco make it hard to get things right.
Hope you are on the right track now.
Regards D S D L
I only saw this blog now for the first time Neil. Great write up, and blog! And you're welcome! I felt quite nostalgic seeing my arm, armboard, Mint protractor etc!!! :violin:
Yes, the Mint protractor is excellent and I'm thinking of getting another one for my new combination!
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