Hard drive storage - options?

[dave2010]

As part of my CD ripping to hard drive project, which is still progressing, but very slowly (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12468), I am thinking of getting one or two large hard drives, or possibly a RAID unit.

Currently I'm using my few years old iMac to rip and store the files, but that is now becoming problematic, as it's starting to interfere with the storage used for other things - such as work! I need to get some of the music files off to other places.

I'm thinking of getting (yet) more hard drives to solve (maybe!) this problem. I don't want to have noisy drives, and if possible I'd like reliable ones. I'm thinking of 2 TB drives, or possibly a RAID. Also it might just make sense to use FireWire for compatibility with my iMac, and not to use yet another USB port. Alternatively I could use a networked drive - I've tried that before - but that was only partially successful.

Recently I've been using several small portable (typically 500 Mbyte) drives from Toshiba or Buffalo for storage - these seem good, and in the worst case would only lose a limited number of files if they fail. The neat thing is not having to have them connected to a separate power supply, and on all the time.

Now I'm looking for a possibly larger scale solution. I don't want to rip 1000s of CDs to a drive, then have the drive fail.

Currently there are some Buffalo drives on Amazon at a reasonable price - though I've had both good and bad experiences with Buffalo.

Some of my friends have bought drives with multiple interfaces (e.g USB, Firewire) and find that they work well with Macs.

Does anyone have any experience with FireWire? How long can the cable reasonably be between my desk top iMac and the drive? 4.5 Metres is the FireWire limit, but in the case of USB drives many only work over quite short distances. I'd like to store any drive at least a short distance away so as to reduce noise issues.

[webby]

Dave, I just recently bought a western digital 1tb elements drive for about £40. It's USB only. I moved my 200GB iTunes library to that as my mac was getting a bit loaded. You can get a 2TB one for about £65. It's fairly quiet and you can always place it under your desk if you want to.

I'd have liked FireWire too but the extra cost wasn't worth it to me. The hitachi g tech drives look very nice but they are expensive. Other FireWire drives worth considering are the lacie ones. Again, you do pay a lot more for the FireWire feature. If you go USB only, you could always get a powered USB hub. I have a belkin tunesync.

Hope that helps.

[webby]

P.s. I too would have liked to go with a drive that did not need a power supply, but as I say, I went with the WD USB drive. Fortunately it doesn't have a power brick, just a small plug.

In terms of cable length I'm sure you could source appropriate cables to satisfy your needs. I'm not sure of any limits there may be for USB drives.

[dave2010]

If you go USB only, you could always get a powered USB hub. I have a belkin tunesync.
Lee

Will drives work through a USB hub? I thought most of them wouldn't do that. My older 250 and 500 Mbyte drives (LaCie) have very short USB leads, which I think is deliberate. If hubs are possible, then small portable units might have some convenience value, and could be quite easily plugged in and out of a powered hub.

I have wondered whether 2x or 4x RAID is really the way to go. I'd hate to have to redo everything if I get it all on to a 2 Gbyte drive, which then fails!

On the other hand, it might not take too long to back up a 2Gbyte drive over FireWire or USB3 - so maybe that's the way to go.

I suppose I'll just get the music stuff tamed, then it'll be video - which takes even more space - though I'm less bothered about that.

[Rare Bird]

There's a company that make flashy alloy enclosures that hold like four Hard drives, all drives isolated from the enclosure/each other & liquid cooled, i forgot what they call em!

[webby]

Dave,

Regarding using a drive through a hub: well, mine work. Both my WD and my older Lacie drive work through the hub. My other WD mybook drive is my time machine drive and is attached directly to the mac via USB. My iMac has only 3 USB ports which is a bit tight. One is used by the keyboard, one by the hub, and one by the time machine backup drive.
Note that mine is a powered hub though. I don't know whether that makes a difference.

I don't operate a Raid, but my iTunes drive is backed up by time machine. One thing I've noted is that there is a slight delay when starting a track after a period of inactivity on the iTunes drive. I believe this may be due to the drives 'spindown' feature. It's not hugely bothersome but I may look into disabling that feature.

[bobbasrah]

No experience of Firewire but for music USB is more than adequate, and can play 24/192 no problem, so you will not struggle.
If you can get away with a single 1.5 or 1Tb external drive that would be a quick resolution to your problem, and 2Tb are more common since I bought mine.
Rumours abound regarding reliability, and although I liked the style of LaCie units, they did not have a consistent reputation. Any drive can and will at some point fail, that's why backup is important.
I have 2 each of both Samsung Story and the WD Elements in those 1.5 and 1Tb sizes, and have used 2m usb cables without issues. The separate PSU's are ideal, as I would avoid pure powered USB devices as they generally require use of 2 USB plugs unless they are really low powered slow devices.
Mine are used only only as backup now as I have 4 drives hot-swappable from the desktop.
If you have an undercapacity external usb Drive which is a SATA connex internally you can possibly upgrade the bare drive.
Quietest of bare SATA drives I found to be WD WD20EARS and Samsung F4204UI(2Tb) drives.

[Reid Malenfant]

No experience of Firewire but for music USB is more than adequate, and can play 24/192 no problem, so you will not struggle.

Hi Robert, sorry to question you on this but are you sure about this? A certain Mr Beresford only included a 24/96 receiver chip in his Caiman DAC simply because USB (thought it may be USB & not USB2 receiver) isn't capable of these data rates. Even though he put in a 24/192 DAC chip...

I'm only going on what i have seen on here by the way so don't grill me ;)

[leo]

Hi Mark,

The USB to spdif M2tech Hiface and Evo can do 24/192.
Not a lot of decent material though to worry about imo so 24/96 is probably good enough for most :)

[bobbasrah]

Off topic I know Mark, but partially good point....
I am going to have to check this out again tomorrow from the external drive to double check, as I was playing these usb drives via a different machine, and I cannot hand on heart say they were passing 24/96or192 rather than standard FLAC.
Regarding the current desktop, I can pass 24/192 via MP/Asio/usb to the outboard DAC and it works aok.

[Alex_UK]

Dave, I just recently bought a western digital 1tb elements drive for about £40. It's USB only. I moved my 200GB iTunes library to that as my mac was getting a bit loaded. You can get a 2TB one for about £65. It's fairly quiet and you can always place it under your desk if you want to.

How times have changed since October... I bought a 2TB WD Elements HDD today - £110 from PC World - the last 2TB one I bought was £70 - but I don't suppose you can put a price on data backup! (I'm keeping 3 copies from now on - had previously only been 2, but the thought of having to redo everything fills me with dread...) I had been holding out for the price to drop back to normal (pretty sure they were £130 before Christmas) but doesn't look like that is happening quickly. There was also a sign at the checkout in PC World limiting HDD purchases to 2 per customer.

[Welder]

Off topic I know Mark, but partially good point....
I am going to have to check this out again tomorrow from the external drive to double check, as I was playing these usb drives via a different machine, and I cannot hand on heart say they were passing 24/96or192 rather than standard FLAC.
Regarding the current desktop, I can pass 24/192 via MP/Asio/usb to the outboard DAC and it works aok.

I thought you had a Windows computer Bob (?)

[bobbasrah]

I thought you had a Windows computer Bob (?)

True John, but there are a lot of drives which can work with either system. :scratch: That thread is going back a bit though......:mental:

[Welder]

Unless something has changed Windows native USB only supports up to 24/96 so unless your Dac came with it's own drivers I cant understand how you are sending 24/192 via USB to it.

It's just one more reason i abandoned Windows.

[Clive]

The DAC & driver I have playing currently is supposed to do 32/384, I can't test that data rate as there's no material! Yes it's Windows.

[Ali Tait]

What dac is that Clive?

[Clive]

JKDAC32

[Welder]

It's not that USB is incapable of 24/192 or higher, its that Windows doesn't give it native support.
Apple do native support.
Linux have it for certain distributions.
Buy an Ayre Dac for example and they'll supply USB drivers with it. ;)
So, sure, a few Dac's that supply their own USB drivers will cope with 24/192 and above.
Being a bit interested in USB I was just wondering what drivers Bob was using.


So what does 32 bit depth sound like Clive and do you know who makes the drivers? (please) ;)

[bobbasrah]

It's not that USB is incapable of 24/192 or higher, its that Windows doesn't give it native support.
Apple do native support.
Linux have it for certain distributions.
Buy an Ayre Dac for example and they'll supply USB drivers with it. ;)
So, sure, a few Dac's that supply their own USB drivers will cope with 24/192 and above.
Being a bit interested in USB I was just wondering what drivers Bob was using.


So what does 32 bit depth sound like Clive and do you know who makes the drivers? (please) ;)

Sorry John, was having late dinner.
Manufacturer's drivers are Musiland for the DAC inc Asio, worked on XP and Win 7 up to 24/192, HDCD, pass through DTS etc.. Never ever had a problem with them, and I gather that a few DIYers have played around with them also. Can use it as a DAC or feed to another DAC.
I believe the newer devices and drivers go higher still, but I don't understand why they are needed.

[Clive]

So what does 32 bit depth sound like Clive and do you know who makes the drivers? (please) ;)
It's the Young version of the M2Tech driver. I can't separate other variables to be able to give a view on 32 bit.

[Ali Tait]

Not much around at that bit rate though?

[Chops]

Hard disk drive costs are high at the moment due to the floods in Thailand last Autumn. If you want to save a few spondoolies, I would wait a while for them to drop back to where they should be. In the meantime, make sure you keep a good backup of all your files/data.

This will provide the resilience you need but maybe not the convenience you would possibly like. By convenience I mean that it wont take much time to start playing music again if a drive fails (and they do). A spare firewire drive with a copy of your files could do this - just plug it in, reconfigure your music player to see it and away you go.

My choice provides more convenience and functionality but at a little more cost. I use a NAS (Network Addressable Storage) with a mirrored pair of disks (one type of RAID). If one drive fails then it keeps on working and I can replace the failed drive at my leisure. When I put a new drive in, it automatically re-establishes the mirror. Mine is a Netgear ReadyNAS Duo and essentially it is a small Linux/UNIX server that allows you to create addressable drives plus act as a print server plus provides quite a few streaming services such as iTunes, DLNA, HTTP (it can be a web server) etc. It is low power and justs sits under the stairs working 24x7. I can automate backup to either an attached USB drive or another drive on the network. For me this works really well but it does need just a little setup to get the most out of it - don't get me wrong, its still pretty much a consumer device like your iMac. You will need a wired network for this device, but that could be an Ethernet cable into your broadband router, for example. There are plenty of similar NAS's available on the market but I'm happy with Netgear kit.

Hope this helps. Apologies if I've not hit the right level.

Chris

[Clive]

Not much around at that bit rate though?
Nothing that I've found but I've barely looked.

[Ali Tait]

Let us know if you do, and if there is any SQ benefit.

[Alex_UK]

Apologies if I've not hit the right level.


All good, Chris - I personally like having a couple of separate external USB HDDs so I can take one around with me when I'm away on business or holiday, or even to work - but a NAS/Raid solution is certainly a good one if you just want it at home and want to fit and forget.

[morris_minor]

My choice provides more convenience and functionality but at a little more cost. I use a NAS (Network Addressable Storage) with a mirrored pair of disks (one type of RAID). If one drive fails then it keeps on working and I can replace the failed drive at my leisure. When I put a new drive in, it automatically re-establishes the mirror. Mine is a Netgear ReadyNAS Duo and essentially it is a small Linux/UNIX server that allows you to create addressable drives plus act as a print server plus provides quite a few streaming services such as iTunes, DLNA, HTTP (it can be a web server) etc. It is low power and justs sits under the stairs working 24x7. I can automate backup to either an attached USB drive or another drive on the network. For me this works really well but it does need just a little setup to get the most out of it - don't get me wrong, its still pretty much a consumer device like your iMac. You will need a wired network for this device, but that could be an Ethernet cable into your broadband router, for example. There are plenty of similar NAS's available on the market but I'm happy with Netgear kit.

Hope this helps. Apologies if I've not hit the right level.

Chris

Aside from Netgear, I've had a couple of Western Digital MyBook World NAS drives for a couple of years now with no issues. One is a double drive, mirrored, as with Chris's, so in effect I have three backup locations of my server's music library. Paranoid, moi? Nah! :eek:

[bobbasrah]

However tempted by the elegance of the NAS solution, the detachable drive gives me a more secure feeling, albeit that the data transfer of usb2 data rate is not exactly blisteringly fast with a lot of data, but still faster than 1Gb/s. They tend to be hooked up but switched off, but the risks of a spike seem low. It is when they are running when drives are at their most vulnerable.

Despite hanging on to the usb2 drives I have, the hot swap capability of the desktop should make it easy enough for me to back up at 3Gb/s, and once prices stabilise on drives, I will be buying another 4 to keep the data in a secure disconnected environment awaiting the dread day of fubar.
Never used the eSata port yet, and the usb3 ports have never been stretched. Newer interfaces will undoubtedly see 10+Gb/s commonplace fairly soon.....

[Volante]

Dave,

You may (or may not !) want to take a look at some thoughts on mostly powered hard drive storage on computer audiophile forum see for example http://www.computeraudiophile.com/category/Equipment/Disk-Storage.

if you haven't already seen it, the site also has some good video tutorials on the basics of computer based system set ups which I have found useful once i have got my mind round the terminology.

Good luck.

Neil

[Alex_UK]

One other point worth bearing in mind - it may not just be a HDD failure - what if (heaven forbid) your drives get stolen, or a fire? Unless you have a copy off-site, then bye bye files...

[realysm42]

Hi Mark,

The USB to spdif M2tech Hiface and Evo can do 24/192.
Not a lot of decent material though to worry about imo so 24/96 is probably good enough for most :)

I don't think it's a case of USB not being "able to do it" but the M-dac is specced the same as the Caiman, the designer said "it can handle it but not prefectly and we don't want USB's limitations being misunderstood and directed at our product".

Or something.

[Smoker]

engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/01/how-to-set-up-a-home-file-server-using-freenas/) ran an nice how to article about freenas, worth a look.

[Stratmangler]

Use one of these http://www.dabs.com/products/zyxel-2tb--1-x-2tb--nsa310-1-bay-network-attached-storage-7TLR.html
It just sits quietly on your network, doesn't use much power when being accessed and spins down when not dishing out files.

[twelvebears]

How times have changed since October... I bought a 2TB WD Elements HDD today - £110 from PC World - the last 2TB one I bought was £70

That's what happens when a massive tsunami takes out a big chunk of Japan...

[StanleyB]

It was actually the flooding in Thailand that caused the hard disks price increases.

[Chops]

Use one of these http://www.dabs.com/products/zyxel-2tb--1-x-2tb--nsa310-1-bay-network-attached-storage-7TLR.html
It just sits quietly on your network, doesn't use much power when being accessed and spins down when not dishing out files.

Looks pretty good VFM and well spec'd to boot. The OP has an iMac and the specs don't include support - Windows only - guess there must be some s/w install on your client for config/admin. However, someone reported success with Ubuntu (Linux) so it may still be possible.

I saw some useful comments here https://forums.ebuyer.com/showthread.php?74713-ZyXEL-NSA-310-media-server-owners-discussion

Chris

[Stratmangler]

Looks pretty good VFM and well spec'd to boot. The OP has an iMac and the specs don't include support - Windows only - guess there must be some s/w install on your client for config/admin. However, someone reported success with Ubuntu (Linux) so it may still be possible.

I saw some useful comments here https://forums.ebuyer.com/showthread.php?74713-ZyXEL-NSA-310-media-server-owners-discussion

Chris

If you look down the system spec you'll see Safari mentioned, so anything Apple orientated shouldn't be a problem.

I access my NSA310 from a web browser all the time.

[Chops]

If you look down the system spec you'll see Safari mentioned, so anything Apple orientated shouldn't be a problem.

I access my NSA310 from a web browser all the time.

:doh: Guess it must all be web based administration.

I thought there must be a client app required based on the comment from https://forums.ebuyer.com/showthread.php?74713-ZyXEL-NSA-310-media-server-owners-discussion:


Setup was dead easy, but only after I had downloaded the Windows setup software from Zyxel site - for some reason the s/w on the installation CD didn't run on my Win7 PC!

Didn't check the Zyxel site :o

Chris

[Vincent Kars]

RAID is about high availability.
RAID1 in general is 2 HDs and they are an exact copy of each other.
If one fails, buy a new one and after a while you have a replica again.

Striping is the trick to improve performance. I/O is slow so write half of the file to 1 HD and the other half to another and you double the performance.
Obvious if 1 HD fails the other is completely useless too.
If you combine redundancy with striping you get RAID5, 1 HD at the time might fail.
If you don’t replace it in time and another one fail, the whole array is bricks.

There is a paradox in RAID, it is fail save but as you have more HDs the change of a failure becomes higher. If each HD has a fail change of .9, 2 have .82 etc.

The change of a HD failure is low. The change of a cockpit error is much higher. You hit the wrong button and delete a couple of tracks, ruins you’re tags, etc, etc.
RAID of course will faithfully replicate all your errors.
Only if you are in need of high availability, RAID will do. Never mistake it for a backup.

Backup.
You have your working library.
I prefer synchronizing software. Only changed files are copied.
To have at least 1 copy I do think is a must.

It might be wise to have a second copy and store this outside the home or in the cloud.
This one is refreshed at a very low rate.
Sometimes you might have data rot.
You are tagging but the memory of your PC is flaky (most PCs don’t have ECC memory) and it might take a substantial time before you find out that you’re audio is corrupted.
One of those rare cases where you are glad with having an outdated backup!

[Welder]

Couldn't agree with Vincent more. :)
The primary purpose of RAID is fast access, not reliable backup.

[Clive]

Couldn't agree with Vincent more. :)
The primary purpose of RAID is fast access, not reliable backup.
Yes, fast access and fault tolerance. Fine if you are running a networks of ATMs! Needed for audio storage? A few drives I can scatter around the place suit be me better but that's my choice.

[StanleyB]

I have been using an external drive that has wireless/USB/RJ45(network) connections on it. Playing large files via USB can cause drop outs etc. due to the transfer speed needed. So I have my laptop connected to the external drive via a 1 meter RJ45 lead. Blindingly fast. I am surprised that I haven't seen that connection method mentioned on the forum, but I recommend it.
A bit of network setting up is initially required, but after that you'll have 100MHz transfer rates between PC and external drive :cool:.

[bobbasrah]

I have been using an external drive that has wireless/USB/RJ45(network) connections on it. Playing large files via USB can cause drop outs etc. due to the transfer speed needed. So I have my laptop connected to the external drive via a 1 meter RJ45 lead. Blindingly fast. I am surprised that I haven't seen that connection method mentioned on the forum, but I recommend it.
A bit of network setting up is initially required, but after that you'll have 100MHz transfer rates between PC and external drive :cool:.

That must be a fairly old drive Stan, USB2 was introduced in 2000 I think, 480Mb/s, usb3 in 2008.;)
Don't think I have ever had a usb1 drive :scratch:

[Vincent Kars]

Connecting a drive over ethernet (RJ45) is what we in general call a NAS (Network Attached Storage)

[StanleyB]

That must be a fairly old drive Stan, USB2 was introduced in 2000 I think, 480Mb/s, usb3 in 2008.;)
Don't think I have ever had a usb1 drive :scratch:
My laptop hasn't got USB3. As for 480MB/s USB speeds: I have never reached those kind of transfer speeds between an external drive and a PC whilst transfering a movie. Have you seriously managed to transfer a 1Gig film in less than 3 seconds via USB?
The drive itself can't be very old. It is 1TB, and those weren't available to the likes of me in 2000.

[Welder]

Just makes me wonder really :D

[StanleyB]

Just makes me wonder really :D
What makes you wonder? Explain yourself.

[bobbasrah]

My laptop hasn't got USB3. As for 480MB/s USB speeds: I have never reached those kind of transfer speeds between an external drive and a PC whilst transfering a movie. Have you seriously managed to transfer a 1Gig film in less than 3 seconds via USB?
The drive itself can't be very old. It is 1TB, and those weren't available to the likes of me in 2000.

Your original post referred to playing back large files over usb Stan, which is why I wondered how old the usb standard was.:eyebrows:
I have been playing HD movies from usb connected drives through TVIX and computer for over 5 years now no problems, same with 24/192 music, no issues.:cool:
Have you checked your cables Stan as something is fundamentally wrong with your usb setup....:scratch:

[StanleyB]

Why do you assume there is something wrong with my USB setup? Because I can't achieve or surpass wired network type speeds on USB2.0? What transfer speeds can you get on your USB setup? Do a test and transfer a large movie file of say 700MB or larger from your external drive to your PC drive. How long does it take to transfer?

[bobbasrah]

Why do you assume there is something wrong with my USB setup? Because I can't achieve or surpass wired network type speeds on USB2.0? What transfer speeds can you get on your USB setup? Do a test and transfer a large movie file of say 700MB or larger from your external drive to your PC drive. How long does it take to transfer?


Because you are having problems with usb transfer rate that I have never encountered nor heard of elsewhere, that is why I assume you have something wrong with your USB setup. ;)
I'm not the one with a usb transfer problem, whether usb2 or 3, so what would testing at my end to resolve your problem Stan ?:scratch:

[StanleyB]

Because you are having problems with usb transfer rate that I have never encountered nor heard of elsewhere, that is why I assume you have something wrong with your USB setup. ;)
I'm not the one with a usb transfer problem, whether usb2 or 3, so what would testing at my end to resolve your problem Stan ?:scratch:
How do I know that I have a problem when you cannot offer any evidence that you can achieve anywhere like the USB speeds you quote? I didn't say that I have USB transfer speeds. You said that I do. I said that I use a wired network drive instead of USB because I get better transfer rates.
So please demonstrate to me that you are not just boasting, but can indeed achieve the maximum transfer rate on your USB connection. If you can't do a simple exercise like that then why are you trying to insult my intelligence?

[bobbasrah]

I have been using an external drive that has wireless/USB/RJ45(network) connections on it. Playing large files via USB can cause drop outs etc. due to the transfer speed needed. So I have my laptop connected to the external drive via a 1 meter RJ45 lead. Blindingly fast. I am surprised that I haven't seen that connection method mentioned on the forum, but I recommend it.
A bit of network setting up is initially required, but after that you'll have 100MHz transfer rates between PC and external drive :cool:.

No transfer problems?:scratch:
I have no idea why you have issues with usb, but it is quite apparent you do indeed have a problem !

[StanleyB]

No transfer problems?:scratch:
I have no idea why you have issues with usb, but it is quite apparent you do indeed have a problem !
Why in Gods name are you insisting that I have a problem? Why don't you answer my question and tell me how long it takes you to transfer a 700MB or larger file via USB on your laptop. By my reckoning it should take you just under 2 seconds to do that if your USB is transferring at 480MB a second via USB2.0. Surely it cannot be that difficult to back up your claims with some concrete data, which in itself we all have to accept at face value.

Out of interest, I have 7 laptops in the office and none of them can transfer data at anything like the speed quoted for USB2.0. Unless you use a SSD drive and disable both firewall and anti virus there is no way that USB2.0 can handle those sort of data transfer rate between an external drive and its own internal drive on a laptop.

[Clive]

I would love to have my disk transfers running at half a gig per second. I manage around 25MB/s according to Windows. I just tried 700MB transfer from a USB2 drive to my laptop HDD. It took around 35 sec.

[keiths]

By my reckoning it should take you just under 2 seconds to do that if your USB is transferring at 480MB a second via USB2.0.

Bits and bytes being confused here. USB2.0 spec is 480Mb/sec = 60MB/sec. So the fastest you could transfer a 700MB file would be about 12 seconds if only the file's data was being taken into account - however you are never going to achieve that in reality. Clive's 35 seconds sounds about right. I don't notice much speed difference backing up to my server over Gigabit ethernet to backing up to USB2.0 connected drives.

[Clive]

Bits and bytes being confused here. USB2.0 spec is 480Mb/sec = 60MB/sec. So the fastest you could transfer a 700MB file would be about 12 seconds if only the file's data was being taken into account - however you are never going to achieve that in reality. Clive's 35 seconds sounds about right. I don't notice much speed difference backing up to my server over Gigabit ethernet to backing up to USB2.0 connected drives.
This does seem to be the source of much of the disagreement/confusion. Networks tend to be quoted in bits and disks in Bytes.

[bobbasrah]

I would love to have my disk transfers running at half a gig per second. I manage around 25MB/s according to Windows. I just tried 700MB transfer from a USB2 drive to my laptop HDD. It took around 35 sec.

Sorry Clive, without question, the transfer capability of any connection is below the headline, and all drives have burst and continuous transfer limitations by virtue of their interfaces. Even SATA2 backups cannot be accomplished at their headline rate, and it would be absurd to so expect.

But with all due respect, what I queried was the statement that "Playing large files via USB can cause drop outs etc. due to the transfer speed needed" as it is something I have never experienced, and makes no sense in terms of what usb CAN do.:scratch:

If you take your own transfer rate of 25Mb/s for a film that is say 90 minutes long that is a whopping 135Gb at full speed, which is a patently absurd fielsize.:mental:
The only logical explanation is that there is something awry with Stan's setup, and he has problems with usb. :rolleyes:

I have never, I repeat NEVER had problems with usb drives playing media files, or come to that any problems with usb in any manner of connection.:eyebrows:

[Clive]

For sure Bob I've never had USB cause me an issue unless I was using USB for a transfer in parallel - I'm not talking playing music here as I have a dedicated machine for that. All I mean is contention for the bus slowing down 2 // transfers which of course are better done sequentially. I agree that on an otherwise unused bus (or lightly used bus) there should be no problems playing media files. Anyway I should keep out of this tussle.

[bobbasrah]

As a postscript to this, and in relation to the original discussion, there do seem to remain some obstacles to data transfer speed, mainly limited by the drives themselves rather than the interface.
There was quite a hoohah on another forum over usb3 failing to accomplish the promised multiple over usb2 speeds, and the results from various tests proved quite surprising. Some usb2 devices had slower internal drives than others, and this became all the more highlighted when they were sold as usb3 devices, only having had the interface updated. The conclusion of the thread was that no matter what it says on the tin, the contents can vary by quite a margin......

[AlexM]

FWIW I always find that external USB 2 drives generally give 20 to 25 MBps. Copying to a newtwork drive gives 40-50MBps. My NAS server is a Thecus N5200 Pro with a 2.2Ghz processor and a gig of ram. I don't think the drive is the issue... it seems to be the limited performance of the USB to sata bridge in the drive that is the issue.

[AlexM]

Oh yes, and RAID <> backups!

[Welder]

You RAID if that's what floats yer boat mate.

I'll be going for something slightly more sedate that doesn't feck up all my backups in one go in the event that the RAID got repelled by overwhelming resistance. :lol:

It's great for what it was designed for, fast drive access for gamers.
Strange how much stuff developed for gamers got commandeered by bleedin audiophiles init. :scratch:

[Clive]

You RAID if that's what floats yer boat mate.

I'll be going for something slightly more sedate that doesn't feck up all my backups in one go in the event that the RAID got repelled by overwhelming resistance. :lol:

It's great for what it was designed for, fast drive access for gamers.
Strange how much stuff developed for gamers got commandeered by bleedin audiophiles init. :scratch:
RAID was around before the current crop of gamers. I was working with RAID more than 20 years ago!

[Welder]

Good for you Clive. ;)







(pull yer trousers up mate yer age is showing :eyebrows: )

[Clive]

Good for you Clive. ;)







(pull yer trousers up mate yer age is showing :eyebrows: )
It was probably longer ago than that.....but I didn't want to say. My obscure point is that it's now available for home use but it's been around in data centres for yonks.

[Welder]

Oh, in that case can I offer you the services of my wheelchair? Free of course. ;)

Just need to warn you it has a habit of heading off to the nearest competitive online FPS game. Some habits eh!
Still, at the long end of 50's I spose I'm flattered to be even considered as "the current crop of gamers".
Wait till I tell my clan mates. :)

[Clive]

Oh, in that case can I offer you the services of my wheelchair? Free of course. ;)

Just need to warn you it has a habit of heading off to the nearest competitive online FPS game. Some habits eh!
Still, at the long end of 50's I spose I'm flattered to be even considered as "the current crop of gamers".
Wait till I tell my clan mates. :)
I probably had you in there as a lost cause :)

Actually I was more shocked the other day....maybe I was dreaming....but I thought you included yourself as an audiophile! I must have mis-read it.

[Welder]

Feck! did I really describe myself as one of those.....:eek:

I spose to avoid a scrap breaking out I should amend my statement to "brought into popular use by gamers", barring of course those weird people involved in data storage when computers were slower than an abacus and twenty times the size. :D

[Clive]

Just don't think about the price tickets on those electronic abacuses or is that abacuae?

[Welder]

Psssst Clive,


Wanna play with my slide rule.

[Clive]

Psssst Clive,


Wanna play with my slide rule.
Only if it's one of those nice round ones. Actually it's amazing how quickly slide rules disappeared. My wife is 4 year younger than me had barely seen a slide rule, let alone being taught how to use one.

[bobbasrah]

God, Clive, thought you were younger than me, but....
Still have a 6" and a full size sliderule somewhere in a box, and confused my kids with them a few years back. Probably having bought them, I was too mean to chuck them... Still have the original book of logs also (Napier?) someplace...
As to RAID, it certainly has it's uses for sure, but it didn't work as I thought to begin with and ended up slower then broken, so gave up on that one. Nice to have if you need the option I guess...

[Clive]

God, Clive, thought you were younger than me, but....
It's my immature nature!