Need (want) a new amp

[killie99]

Searching for a new amp, I have about £2000, but might stretch a tiny bit further for audio nirvana.

I have Impulse H2's which although rated at 95dB/W into 8 ohms are not the easiest of speakers to drive.
Most listening done from FLAC files through a logitech touch fed to an Eastern Electric Minimax DAC (tried coax and optical, not a great deal of difference) and the DAC is connected straight to a Meridian 557. Seriously considering plonking a decent pre inbetween to see if that makes any improvement (Bel Canto Pre3 or Meridian 502?).

Some of the amps I've owned with the H2's are:

MF A1000 - loved it til it blew a channel one day. Got it fixed and it just never sounded the same again, lost some of it's smoothness and bass control (was repaired by JS Audio so it was repaired properly).
MF kW250s - Was ok, a bit harsh but listenable. Good control of the bass.
AVI Lab series - Great bass and mid but the upper range was ear piercing, I couldn't listen to it for more than about 30 minutes.
Meridian 557 - current amp. Great bass, good mid and upper but I find it a bit boring to listen to.

Amps I've listened to with the H2's at a dealer:

Couple of Eastern Electric valve amps, neither could control the bass (an M520 and some other) - the bass was flapping about like a pair of bell bottomed trousers.
NAD M3 - just didn't like it.
Perreaux 150i - loved it but out of my price range.
Perreaux 80i - about on a par with the kW250.
Pure Sound L300/M845 mono blocks, great sound especially on female vocal but outrageously over my budget.

So, anyone care to inspire me and make some suggestions as to how I get the valve smoothness on female vocal and the rock solid controlled bass?

Music varies from rock to electronic to female/male accoustic vocal. No jazz, no classical, no opera.

Let the opinions begin :lol:

[Ali Tait]

I know I keep saying this, but I'd ask Nick(lurcher) to build you an amp. By far the best bang for your buck IMHO.

[lurcher]

Yep, but what one? If the M520 was having problems with the bass, you are looking at something that has a low output impedance. I would normally expect the 520's feedback to at least control the cones (even if its not the last word on transformers and phase splitters). That it didn't but a 845 SET did work well would leave me being unsure just what sort of amp would do the job, and then (with a large SET) you start bumping up against the budget. I wonder if a hybrid like the Croft or a Pass Labs F5 would do the job.

[Welder]

Your H2’s Stewart, do they have the Seas eight and a half inch bass drivers?

[killie99]

Thanks for the comments. What about a 2nd hand Audio Note Oto SE (or Soro SE) as 2 people have suggested them for the H2's but they seem to be few and far between ?

[hifi_dave]

Croft pre/power to suit your budget.

They should have no problems with the Impulse speakers. I have used a couple of the Aspara range with the Croft Series 7 and they worked well.

[lurcher]

Well, the Otto is I believe a Push Pull el84 amp, so will sound good as its hard to make a bad amp with that valve. But just how well it handles your speakers remains to be seen given the 520 had problems.

[killie99]

Your H2’s Stewart, do they have the Seas eight and a half inch bass drivers?

Yes they do. I changed the original drivers a couple of years ago to SEAS H333's but I still have the originals in my loft in case of emergencies.

[killie99]

Well, the Otto is I believe a Push Pull el84 amp, so will sound good as its hard to make a bad amp with that valve. But just how well it handles your speakers remains to be seen given the 520 had problems.

Is that not the plain vanilla Oto, the Oto se is single ended? I'm not very knowledgable about vavle amps so feel free to put me in my place and tell me I'm an idiot :)

[lurcher]

Is that not the plain vanilla Oto, the Oto se is single ended? I'm not very knowledgable about vavle amps so feel free to put me in my place and tell me I'm an idiot :)

Ok, well, it may work well, if it does it makes even less sense of the 520 not handling the speakers.

Course it may not be that the 520 not handleing the speakers, it may just be the 520 had naff base. The ones I have heard have been ok, but benifir from better coupling caps. But thats neither here or there.

[killie99]

I had a wee read of the difference between single ended and push pull and I understand the basics of how they work but when (or why) would you use SE instead of PP and vice versa?

There's one of the few web articles on the H2's at http://www.acoustica.org.uk/ and go to the left pane and scoll to near the bottom and you'll see links to a couple of pieces if you're interested.
I was told a few years ago that the best type of amp for the H2's was one which had a large voltage swing rather than a large current swing but I've no idea what that means - does that make any sense or was I being spun a yarn?

[Ali Tait]

Ok, a very general statement of the differences vis a vis SE and PP. SE majors on air, space and great imaging. The caveat is that you need the right speakers to fully exploit this. Done well, it is unsurpassed IMHO. PP on the other hand, often has better drive in the bass, at the expense of some of the air,space and imaging- please remember this is just a very general statement of how the different topologies sound, neither done well is inherently superior to the other, it just comes down to individual taste. I would say however that PP amps are usually better at driving the kinds of commercial speakers that are popular these days. I suppose you could say that SE valve amps are a bit more "hair shirt" in that you need to pair them with speakers that will allow them to give of their best.

[Welder]

I reckon this will do it. I doubt very much if you’ll like it though ;)

http://www.nuforce.com/hi/products/integratedamp/index.php

Audio, it’s like chocolate. Most like it sweet and milky but the fact is chocolate is dark and bitter.

[Reid Malenfant]

Hmm, you have high efficiency speakers which will easily show up any nasties from an amplifier & a difficult to drive bass end :scratch:

You liked the MF A1000 (I thought it was the A1001 but lets not split hairs ;)) which if i remember correctly was class A up to about 50W per channel.

All the others you mentioned were class B or AB at a low bias.

I'd suggest you look for another class A amplifier. What springs to mind & could come in under your budget are Krell KSA100S, Krell FPB200 or you might like to take a listen to XTZ AP100 (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7517) which are well within your budget & available as a home loan :)

The XTZ AP100 has 50W of class A power available similar to the MF ;)

[chelsea]

Pure sound a30

[killie99]

There was an A1000 and an A1001. The A1000 was a 2 box integrated (how strange) class A 50W job which saved me putting on my central heating and the A1001 was a huge beast of a 200W class A. Never heard an A1001 with the H2's though. I shall have a look at those amps you've suggested and see what the reviews say.
Another amp I did like when I heard it with H1's (very similar to the H2's) was a Moon i5, but again well out of my price range and i've never seen a 2nd hand one.

[killie99]

Pure sound a30

I almost bought one of these after I'd heard the L300/845's (unfortunately I couldn't audition the A30 or the 2a3) but was concerned that it wouldn't be powerful enough to drive the H2's. The £12,000 worth of L300/845's sounded good but could an integrated that cost about 1/10th of the price get even remotely close? And after having heard the Eastern Electric 520 I'm just as sceptical. If I come across a decent priced 2nd hand one I'd give it a go.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I've heard the H2's in several different systems and the very best of those remains as one of my most memorable hi-fi related experiences.
The speakers were driven in bi-amp mode with a big transistor amp juicing up the bass/mid and a puny valve amp attending to the tweeters. The two amps were gain matched and the result was one of the most dynamic, natural and impressive systems I have ever heard in my life. Total cost wasn't great and the sound transcended the price many times over.

[killie99]

blimey, I had never thought of doing that, you may have hit on a solution for me. I have the monster 557 for the bass/mid ....... how do you cable that up?

How will the volume work with 2 different amps - surely they wouldn't change volume levels at the same rate?

[chelsea]

I had some pink triangle speakers that were 84db and the a30 drove them well.
I don't listen that loud though.
I always thought the impulse were an easy speaker to drive?

[Welder]

I usually haven’t heard any of the kit that gets dragged up in these “what shall I buy” threads which is just one of the reasons I don’t usually comment.


Oddly, I have heard the H2’s and I personally wouldn’t be chucking big bucks on amps to suit them. However, you’re obviously very fond of them and it seems they have one or two enthusiasts here at AoS so I’ll say no more than despite the non audiophile credibility of the NuForce amps they will pick the H2’s up and chuck em around without either breaking the bank or acting as secondary heating.

Course you probably wont even consider them, but nor did I until I heard them pushing about some very serious speakers ;)

[Jonboy]

The Audio Note OTO se sounds better than the pp, not heard the Pure sound A30 but have had their 2A3 in my system and really liked it, both as you probably know are intergrated with the Oto having a phono stage option.

[The Grand Wazoo]

blimey, I had never thought of doing that, you may have hit on a solution for me. I have the monster 557 for the bass/mid ....... how do you cable that up?

How will the volume work with 2 different amps - surely they wouldn't change volume levels at the same rate?

If you have a single pair of outputs from your preamp you need to split it - cheaply done with adaptors (a tenner or so for a pair), or you can buy a bespoke cable (I think Mark Grant sells one). If you have two pairs of outputs then all the better - it's job done.
Your power amps need to be producing the same voltage gain as each other or you will be forever tweaking the output of one (which is not anything like ideal, but easily done with a simple passive preamp & short interconnects). I'm sure that if your choice of amps doesn't have a matched gain, then a simple bit of surgery from a competent electronics engineer will cure it.

Split the crossovers & feed the bass/mid with the output of your solid state amp & the tweeters from the valve amp & Bob's yer aunties live in lover!

I'd suggest looking at an amp with EL84 output valves for the tweeters - that could make a combination that's sweet as a very sweet nut

[jandl100]

A few thoughts on your original post in blue ....


Searching for a new amp, I have about £2000, but might stretch a tiny bit further for audio nirvana.

You can get a fantastic amp for £2k. You can also get a fantastic amp for well under £1k if you buy used. Personally, I see no reason to spend all of your budget.

I have Impulse H2's which although rated at 95dB/W into 8 ohms are not the easiest of speakers to drive.

Nice speakers, I like them. Have you got them sited properly? They need to be near the rear wall if you are to get a realistic tonal balance out of them, ime. Otherwise they can sound ear-piercing with neutrally balanced kit ... see below.

Most listening done from FLAC files through a logitech touch fed to an Eastern Electric Minimax DAC (tried coax and optical, not a great deal of difference) and the DAC is connected straight to a Meridian 557. Seriously considering plonking a decent pre inbetween to see if that makes any improvement (Bel Canto Pre3 or Meridian 502?).

But you know that Meridian is boring (see below). Why do you want more of the same? :scratch:

Some of the amps I've owned with the H2's are:

MF A1000 - loved it til it blew a channel one day. Got it fixed and it just never sounded the same again, lost some of it's smoothness and bass control (was repaired by JS Audio so it was repaired properly).
A bit of a smoothy - with neutral supporting system and room placement this would sound a bit rolled off, imo.
MF kW250s - Was ok, a bit harsh but listenable. Good control of the bass.
AVI Lab series - Great bass and mid but the upper range was ear piercing, I couldn't listen to it for more than about 30 minutes.
I have to disagree with this - the Lab Series kit I have owned (LSi and CDP) are wide open and neutral. If you hear screech - look elsewhere in your system for the problem.

Meridian 557 - current amp. Great bass, good mid and upper but I find it a bit boring to listen to.
Yup, all Meridian kit is a bit boring, see comment above.

Amps I've listened to with the H2's at a dealer:

Couple of Eastern Electric valve amps, neither could control the bass (an M520 and some other) - the bass was flapping about like a pair of bell bottomed trousers.
Yup, small transformer valve amps just won't cut it if you want taut bass with those speakers. An easy way to eject 50% of valve contenders from your list is to give them a heft - seriously heavy? OK - carry on to the listening test!
NAD M3 - just didn't like it.
Perreaux 150i - loved it but out of my price range.
Perreaux 80i - about on a par with the kW250.
Pure Sound L300/M845 mono blocks, great sound especially on female vocal but outrageously over my budget.

So, anyone care to inspire me and make some suggestions as to how I get the valve smoothness on female vocal and the rock solid controlled bass?
With your budget (whether it's £1k or £2k) I'd advise, like Mr Welder, trying some more good solid state options if you want taut bass as well as great sound elsewhere without breaking the bank. I bet my Parasound Halo A21 would sound fab! (No, it's not up for sale - it's a keeper!). I have a feeling you like a smo-o-o-oth sound, so (once again, like Mr Welder) I'd strongly suggest you try some class D solid state amps.

Music varies from rock to electronic to female/male accoustic vocal. No jazz, no classical, no opera.

Let the opinions begin :lol:

There you go! A few opinions. :carrot:

[DSJR]

The two posts above should be read VERY carefully by the OP IMO. I wasn't going to say much about the speakers, but perhaps Mr Weld's comments on their "individuality" should be taken note of :) and Jerry's comments re the AVI Lab amps (which I think he liked) sort of sum up the balancing act needed if one of the units (the H2's?) has too much overt "character," to balance out..

In other respects, I always liked the bigger Meridian power amps, respecting hugely their ease and grace with larger speakers, but I suppose into a highly efficient speaker this may translate into something less...

Good luck anyway - and try to get some live acoustic music experience going in the meantime - I know, not the same as a recorded album, but it's amazing how it helps ;)

[killie99]

<jandl100> I have the H2's right up against the wall - well as close as I can get them to still let me get cables in and out. I've spend many hours moving them aroudn to find teh best place for them (and it's not easy moving them by yourself!).

Thanks everyone for their input, there are more suggestions than I expected.

So, to narrow it down and take everything into consideration I need:

new speakers driven by a class AD solid state valve hybrid amp but only connected to my tweeters :lol:

No, honestly, thanks for all the inputs and it has certainly gave me food for thought

[killie99]

Got hold of a Puresound A30, very nice ofr the price I paid. Now if only it had a remote control for the volume ....

[wee tee cee]

Stuart,
Sorry didn't pick up on the the thread until now.Just a thought but a temple audio bantum driving your treble and a pair of they're monoblocks on the bass duties.The combination of valve/ss sound with the grunt of the monos in addition the ability to alter the gain at the touch of a button on the monos.
If your happy with what you have,enjoy......
Regards Tony.

[DSJR]

Got hold of a Puresound A30, very nice ofr the price I paid. Now if only it had a remote control for the volume ....

get a source with remote volume outpiut and run it pretty well flat out, adjusting the Puresound for overall gain?

[killie99]

Bit of an update on this. The first couple of weeks with the A30 were great but then as I listened to more of my albums I found more and more that just didn't sound right, especially rock - all the instruments just sort of merged together and it was very difficult to pick out individual instruments (some Radiohead stuff sounded awful). So, A30, great with female vocal and accoustic but just not cutting the mustard with rock.

On fleabay a couple of weeks ago saw a XTZ A100 D3 for less than £400 and thought I'd take a punt. Blimey, struggled to lift the box when it got delivered! This thing is built like a tank and the remote control unit weighs a ton. Got it hooked up and left it to run for several hours blasting out some Kraftwerk to get it warmed up, it had been in a delivery van for several days and was freezing cold. First impressions, bass much much tighter and kept under control. Mid/upper not as sweet as the A30 but at least it performs well on all types of music.

A couple of weeks on and I'm still pretty happy with the XTZ, not the be all and end all of refinement and control but for less than £400 I'm amazed.

I think the period spent with the A30 has convinced me that valve amps in my price bracket can't drive the H2's in a manner that I can live with.

I'm going to continue looking at other options (thought about going for seperate amps for bass and mid/treble but it's a bit of faffing about to get it right) to see if I can get the best of both worlds so maybe a valve pre with a SS power might push the right buttons for me. Thinking something like a Croft 25R pre and a whopping power amp like a Chord 1200 might be worth a try .... we shall see.

The XTZ also has a built in DAC but the less said about that the better, it's not great. The DAC in the squeezebox Touch shows it a clean pair of heals and my Eastern Electric Minimax just wipes the floor with it. I suppose you can't expect everything to be great on a £400 amp.

[The Grand Wazoo]

If you want to try bi-amping, you could think about adding the power amp (http://www.audiosanctum.co.uk/Power-Amplifiers/XTZ-Class-AP-100-Power-Amplifier-Black.html)to match your integrated.

[RobHolt]

I used H2s for many years and loved them.

Their presence in the house happened to coincide with a period of amp testing and evaluation so they had about 20 different amps in front of them over a 12 month period. Memorable models were a Croft SMA/Series V, WAD 6550 and Cambridge 840A.

The 840A is currently available at £500 on sale at Richer.
Huge amount of good amp for the money so I'd recommend that.

Rob