Looking for a new pre-amp.

[Dingdong]

I've been looking for a new preamp for a short while. I'd like it to have balanced and unbalanced o/p's and a remote. And it will probably need a half decent mm input. Although I could probably go for a Cambridge 640p or the like if it doesn't.
I'd like the balanced o/p's as I'm currently running 4m of cable to my power amp and would like to go balanced as the next step.

The one that seems to tickle my fancy at the moment is the Musical Fidelity A1 FBP (£499 new). I'll see if I can arrange to listen to it shortly.
Anyone got any opinions or other ideas?

[AlexM]

Dingdong,

Hope you don't mind a plug, but have a look at the Rogue Audio Metis preamp that I have for sale in 'private exibitions' here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13119). It has remote volume, and a more than decent MM phono stage.

Price negotiable as I currently have no use for it, and would prefer not to deal with the dread auction site.

Regards,
Alex

[Ali Tait]

You could consider asking nick (Lurcher) to build you something bespoke. He makes some of the very best sounding kit I've ever heard, regardless of cost.

[Dingdong]

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I'd really like to get something with a balanced out. And something not much north of £500. It will have to drive down 4m of cable into my LK280 for a while.
Eventually I'll save some pennies for a power amp or two.

[Ali Tait]

Nick could do balanced no problem, and I'm sure within your budget.

[Dingdong]

And with a remote as I'm a lazy bugger?
Do you have contact details for Nick?

[Ali Tait]

Check out the valve output dac he built for me. It has balanced outs-

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13204

[Ali Tait]

And with a remote as I'm a lazy bugger?
Do you have contact details for Nick?


Yes, can be done. If you PM your email I will ask him to get in touch.

[Dingdong]

pm sent

[lurcher]

Only problem is the conversion for single ended to balanced at the front. I assume you need single ended inputs as well?

[Dingdong]

Only problem is the conversion for single ended to balanced at the front. I assume you need single ended inputs as well?

Yes, I'd like single ended in and balanced and single ended out. Maybe one balanced in would be good as well, but not absolutely necessary.

What would you suggest?

[lurcher]

Well, for single ended in balanced out, A circuit like the WAD Pre III would work well. Its when you want balanced in as well. All balanced is fine, but to combine the two you are looking at another set of transformers to do the conversion. Very good, but the price passes your target. Or you use solid stage single ended to balanced converters, then you may as well be SS throughout, then balanced out becomes a issue.

Course, thats just my collection of bias, other methods will work well.

[Dingdong]

How easy would it be to do 3 single ended in and balanced and single ended out within a reasonable budget? With a remote.

[jandl100]

The one that seems to tickle my fancy at the moment is the Musical Fidelity A1 FBP (£499 new). I'll see if I can arrange to listen to it shortly.
Anyone got any opinions or other ideas?

I've got one of those MF A1 FBP pre's. They retailed at £1499, btw! Although in typical MF style, I got a brand new unopened box example for £345 delivered!
Check out post #386 on this thread. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1236&page=39

It's very very good - I must confess that I am surprised how good it is - I've tried a few other pre's (ss and valve) over the past few months, but the MF has stayed and the others have moved on!:)

The phonostage is a bit of a letdown. :( It's not very good, kind of thin and lacking foundation, way below the standard of the line stage section. It might give a Cambridge 640 a run for its money, but not a lot else imho.
Drop £50 or so on the cheapest Angle Audio 'stage and you are into a completely different league - one that is musically worthwhile! ;)

[Dingdong]

Thanks for that. I'll try and listen to the MF as soon as I can. I saw that Unilet had them for £299 in the summer. All sold out, though.

[jandl100]

Yes, it was a Unilet one I had - someone on the Wigwam bought it for a 'project' then that fell thru - so I just paid for 2 lots of postage charge!

[DSJR]

The only thing about "domestic" balanced (can't speak for the pro way) is that very few balanced preamps keep the signal that way from input to output. As a result, the signal has to be converted one way and then back again, adding to complexity - hope I'm basically right in this assumption.

They're as rare as hens teeth in the UK and not remote, but the Mark Levinson ML28 was a superb unit. Balanced from in to out and using the best components they could use in the early 90's, they sometimes come up for under a grand and have at least a "Croft" standard of musical reproduction IMO.

I owned a Bryston BP25 with phono stage and remote for a few years. As long as the thing is left powered either 24/7, or left on to "warm up" thoroughly, it's very good and "almost" sweet. Stone cold, it's thin and flat as a pancake. The larger power supply from the current model can be fitted as an upgrade and this improves it I understand and there's no reason why an enterprising soul couldn't make up an equivalent. The very long warranty may get in the way of updating though..

MF XP-100 preamp in the late 90's "X series" elongated case. Single ended but very transparent sonics and able to drive long interconnects - a tweakers dream I believe :)

AVI preamps were designed from the off to drive long signal leads, the later ones (97*** serial numbers) being ideal for this and extremely transparent to the source. No sonic signature to speak of either and respect where respect is due, mine's been utterly reliable so far. It has a pain-free phono stage as well, which does benefit from 3/4hr warm-up, although the line stage is "there" within a couple of minutes I find...

Lastly from me, I was VERY impressed with an original Cyrus preamp, which offered balanced ins and outs and i would have bought one had the AVI not come up at such a good price. Very "muscular" sounding, standard discrete components (not surface mount) and solid build, these used to go out at under £300 used, although a PSX-R will add to the cost.


P.S. I haven't mentioned the Linn Kairn. This one's a bit over-complex and the mid 90's ones were all over the shop, with regular changes and revisions to board layouts etc. No two batches sounded quite the same, although by now, any sonic variations will be cosmetic to the overall standard of performance IMO. It's a solid product, if not totally transparent in comparison with its peers, but it easily saw off an LK1 though. The 5103 processor preamp used in stereo was better able to reproduce subtlety and spatial depth in comparison (done it myself) and was used as an upgrade to the kairn until the Klimax thing happened..

[Dingdong]

Dave, this is the wee beastie in question. It is fully balanced. At the moment I don't have a balanced input for it.

https://www.referenceaudio.se/ImageUpload/Tester/A1%20FBP%20Review%20HiFi%20World.pdf

I wanted a balanced output as it will have to drive 4m of cable across the room, round the back of the telly n stuff and into the power amp. The power amp doesn't have balanced i/p's but the plan is to replace that next with something that has. That will be next years saving up plan.

The alternative would be to take the fireplace out and put the telly in the middle of the speakers so that I can move the hifi rack closer to the speakers. Then I'd have to redecorate. This would end up with me buying non hifi magazines and spending weekends down b&q or the like, instead of doing something fun.

[DSJR]

4m isn't an issue to the single-ended preamps I mentioned and that includes the Kairn as well - hell, even the venerable Quad 33 would drive 10m from memory. Just use decent mic cables using the two inner conductors as hot and return, connecting the shield at one end (the one that's earthed - often the preamp end, but depends)..

My AVI/ATC combination had 10m interconnects running alongside an aerial lead to the tuner and a mains lead to power the pre and sources. No issues there, although I did use cable "ferrites" on the mains and interconnects. the AVI was immune to these, but the ATC's didn't seem to mind ;)


Another goodie from yesteryear was the Meridian 502, which has both balanced and single ended inputs. Much better sounding than the mk1 version of the 501 preamp (the 501mk2 was similar to the 502 in fidelity I remember).

[lurcher]

The only thing about "domestic" balanced (can't speak for the pro way) is that very few balanced preamps keep the signal that way from input to output. As a result, the signal has to be converted one way and then back again, adding to complexity - hope I'm basically right in this assumption.

Yes, thats my view as well. Thats what I mean about the extra issues of handling both balanced and unbalanced inputs. In most cases they are not internally balanced, just a differential input, single ended internally and the differential on the out. That may be fine of course. The way I did the last balanced preamp was a transformer stage at the front to convert the single ended into balanced. symmetric circuit inside, then transformer output to stay balanced and mean that the input, output cound be totally floating with respect to each other. I bet most "balanced" preamps would not like having their inputs raised by 1kV :-).

[Dingdong]

Yes, it was a Unilet one I had - someone on the Wigwam bought it for a 'project' then that fell thru - so I just paid for 2 lots of postage charge!

What are your thoughts on your Parasound power amp? If I do go down the MF A1 FBP route then that was one of the amps I was thinking of as a future purchase.

[Dingdong]

I'm off to listen to the MF preamp tomorrow. Found one for £350 ex dem. Just got to make some cables up for the LK280.
Will report back my findings.

[Dingdong]

Bought the MF A1 FBP. I've been sat listening to it all night and it sounds pretty bloody good to me. It does everything so much better than my old pre.

Even the usb doesn't sound too bad hooked up to my laptop and lossless itunes.

Now just got to save up for the next step. Which will probably be a power amp. Unless I happen accross a bargain Garrard 401, or a Wadia 16 or.....

[jandl100]

What are your thoughts on your Parasound power amp? If I do go down the MF A1 FBP route then that was one of the amps I was thinking of as a future purchase.

Fantastic. Utterly, utterly wonderful. :eek: :stalks:

So bloody good that I have entirely stopped looking at power amps - which is a very hard thing for a boxswapper like me to say! :eyebrows:


Bought the MF A1 FBP. I've been sat listening to it all night and it sounds pretty bloody good to me. It does everything so much better than my old pre.

Yup, I said it was a good'un, didn't I! :thumbsup:

[Dingdong]

For £350 the pre is a bloody bargain. I'm even happy with the usb dac. Works quite well for playing stuff off my laptop. Not as good as a cdp, though.
I'll have to save me pennies a bit before the power amp.
I was thinking of the A23, but it's not supposed to be anywhere near as good as the A21. My DM2's don't need a lot of power up 'em.
What did you think of the MF CD pro?

[jandl100]

For £350 the pre is a bloody bargain. I'm even happy with the usb dac. Works quite well for playing stuff off my laptop. Not as good as a cdp, though.

Well, I've compared it directly with several far more expensive pre-amps - the MF beat 'em all!



I'll have to save me pennies a bit before the power amp.
I was thinking of the A23, but it's not supposed to be anywhere near as good as the A21. My DM2's don't need a lot of power up 'em.

I've not tried the A23, but as you say, it's the A21 that folks make all the fuss over. I can say with confidence that the A21 sounds as wonderful at 1W as it does at 250W! :)


What did you think of the MF CD pro?

Ah. Yeah, had one of those. I was really disappointed. Got it for a good price which meant I could sell it on easily the following week! It wasn't bad - perhaps the 1WR (one word review) would be "inoffensive". Which is not what I want from my music! :nono:

[Dingdong]

Thanks. I think I'll probably be sticking with my vrds for now. maybe a bit of diy on it.Clock, op-amps and the like.
The only time I've heard Parasound before was a HCA-3500. Sounded fantastic with Totem Mani-tou's. Ended up with an ARC Vt130se and ML SL3's instead though.
Once I've got a big pot of pennies I'll seek out a Parasound.

[Reid Malenfant]

Once I've got a big pot of pennies I'll seek out a Parasound.
John Curl appears to know what he's doing :)

[jandl100]

John Curl appears to know what he's doing :)

Yep, I reckon so too.
I read somewhere that JC was heavily involved in the design of the A21, but not the A23 ....

[Dingdong]

There will probably be a 'looking for a new power amp' in the future. The A21 will be on the list I think.
The new pre is doing really well. Massive bargain. Even the usb i/p doesn't sound too bad hooked up to my laptop.

[Dingdong]

After a couple of weeks using the new pre I'm over he moon with it. Or maybe I should say I'm over the moon with the line section of it. The phono bit is not bad, but I was expecting a bit more airiness, if that's a word, to the sound. I was thinking of trying out a separate phono stage to see how that sounded.
Then I came up with a cunning plan earlier, whilst doing some admin at home(skiving). I had a spare LK1 knocking about that I bought very cheaply as it was supposed to be faulty. Turned out to be a couple of quids worth of battery needed replacing. I think the Linn phono stage was alright, but the rest was maybe not so alright as the new MF.

So the cunning plan was to 'modify' the old LK1 into becoming a new phono stage. An hour or so with my soldering iron and some bits of wire and the line section was bypassed. I used the mc input phonos as the o/p as I couldn't be arsed with the xlr's of the LK1.
I even had a Dirak (separate psu to you and me) to power it in place of the little standard psu.
Hooked it all up and slapped a bit of Clapton Unplugged on the trusty old Thorens. How did it sound? Pretty bloody good. I'm really rather pleased with myself. There is a clarity and airiness (there's that word again) to it that pleases me.

Problem is now I need another rack. My rather nice Stands Unique stand is full. So the new phono and psu, the new PF30 and the tt transformer are sort of arranged in a circle around it.