View Full Version : Belkin PF30 question.
The unit is now 72 hours old and works fine. I've only one double (unswitched) mains socket in that part of the room, so I have the amp plugged into the high current output socket (yes I know it may be better if it was plugged into the wall socket directly). The CD, Touch, Beresford Caiman, TT, Tuner, are plugged into the various sockets in the back.
I have a feeling that the TT is a little 'darker' and is losing a bit of the top-end. I know I need to experiment here.
My questions:
1. The instructions for the PF30 state that the unit must not be daisy-chained at the mains input stage. For example, I have the TT, I think, plugged into the TV/Visual output. Does this matter? Is there any way the 'mains cleaning circuitry' is different, say, between the audio and other sockets?
2. I gather that it could be OK to daisy- chain at the output stage(s)?
In other words, if there IS a difference between the two audio outputs and the other sockets, is it OK to link an extension lead to one of the audio outputs and serve all the hi-fi units through here?
Thanks
Richard
HighFidelityGuy
19-09-2011, 22:56
Hi Richard. Here's a photo of the inside of the PF30:
http://www.tdsf.co.uk/Audio/Images/PF30.jpg
You will notice that the two green rings with wires coiled round them are slightly different sizes. The bigger one is for the audio output, the smaller one for the video output. There are also some grey capacitors that are different sizes between outputs. This tells me that these two output pairs have slightly different levels of filtering. So you may get different results from each filter with different pieces of equipment. You will have to experiment with that.
Also try plugging your amp directly into the wall as that can often provide better bass at the possible detriment to higher frequency detail. One way will no doubt suite your system better than the other.
Another thing that I recommend you experiment with is separating certain pieces of equipment between filters. The video and audio filters are supposed to be isolated from each other, so you can use this to isolate a noisy item from less noisy items. The tricky part will be determining which items are noisy. I recommend that you get one of THESE (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170680946756). You plug this into a socket and then plug other equipment into nearby sockets. If some equipment injects noise back into the mains you will see and hear the noise on the noise sniffer. You can then arrange your plugs accordingly to get the quietest results.
I recently purchased a mains sniffer after another forum member brought his round to my house for me to try. I've found some very interesting things about which equipment in my house injects noise back into the mains and also proved that the mains coming into my house is cleaner at certain times of the day/night. For £20 I think they are an invaluable system tweaking tool but they won't be around at that price for long. :)
As for extension cables; I honestly can't see why you can't plug the PF30 into a mains block. However, if you do, make sure that you use a heavy duty one with few sockets and be very careful that you don't overload anything. I also can't see why you can't connect mains blocks to the outputs but the same advice applies. Double check all the current ratings of the equipment you intend to connect and make sure that you don't exceed the rating of the PF30 or wall socket. :cool:
Thanks Dave for that full and detailed response. I promise I'll try that and report back.
HD650s coming later today so it could be a few days before I have the time...!
BW
Richard
Hi Bonky,
I live in Sheffield (S20) and have a noise sniffer you can borrow for a few days - where are you?
Dave.
Hi Bonky,
I live in Sheffield (S20) and have a noise sniffer you can borrow for a few days - where are you?
Dave.
Hi, thanks Dave, I'm in Lodge Moor (S10).
Where is S20?
BW
Richard
Hi Richard,
"Where is S20?!!" Tut tut, centre of the known universe, that's all :lol:.
Mosborough/Halfway area, about 1km from Supertram terminus - don't tell me you've never been to this select area :doh: ;) .
Dave.
The noise sniffer is an essential item, every home should have one, I won't be sending the one Colin lent me back anytime soon.
ursus262
20-09-2011, 17:32
May I suggest a balanced mains transformer? No filtration, just noise cancellation at source, without polluting the earth.
Reid Malenfant
20-09-2011, 17:53
The problem with a balanced transformer is it only gets rid of common mode interference, it does diddly squat when faced with differential mode.
IE if the interference is common to both Live & Neutral it'll certainly cut it right down, but if it's only on the Live line it'll do nothing at all :rolleyes:
If you look at the pictures of the inside of the PF30 you'll see it has both types of filter ;)
ursus262
21-09-2011, 11:55
The problem with a balanced transformer is it only gets rid of common mode interference, it does diddly squat when faced with differential mode.
IE if the interference is common to both Live & Neutral it'll certainly cut it right down, but if it's only on the Live line it'll do nothing at all :rolleyes:
If you look at the pictures of the inside of the PF30 you'll see it has both types of filter ;)
Yes, I do know that! I am not stupid! Differential mode is not an issue which is why I suggested it
Is it the general consensus that the amp should go straight to the wall then?
Yes, power amps certainly, pre amps can benefit from conditioning but as always try different configs.
Rgds,
P
Reid Malenfant
21-09-2011, 18:17
Yes, I do know that! I am not stupid! Differential mode is not an issue which is why I suggested it
Dave, i never said you were chap ;)
Please don't forget that the OP may not know these things & anyone else who doesn't may also benefit from more information. These threads are generally read by quite a few people & even more non members no doubt :cool:
Yes the entire world can read what entirely gifted, witty, intelligent and downright talented we all are on the AOS. :lol:
Reid Malenfant
21-09-2011, 18:35
:lolsign:
ursus262
21-09-2011, 18:46
:lol:
Hi all; thanks for the answers so far.
Just to return to one of the questions: the back of the PF30 is linked as follows:
2 Video outputs: Caiman and Logitech Touch
2 Audio Outputs: CD and TT.
The amp is in the last socket. I'll try to plug it into a suitable wall socket later.
With the exception of the amp. is this the best configuration?
May it be better to daisy-chain the Touch and Caiman into the Audio outputs?
I've tried a few combinations but can't say I can hear a difference.
Balanced and unbalanced transformers? - You're right, I have no idea. Is it relevant?
Thanks again,
BW
Richard
Reid Malenfant
21-09-2011, 18:59
Balanced and unbalanced transformers? - You're right, I have no idea. Is it relevant?
Balanced mains transformers are relevant, yes. They naturally cancel common mode interference, though they aren't cheap :rolleyes:
As for your kit, i'd plug the amp into the wall & then take a carefull look at your equipment. Anything using switch mode power supplies plug into the video sockets. Anything using normal mains PSU & transformers plug into the audio sockets.
If you have anything else that draws high current like a TV, plug that into the switched socket.
That is the exact arrangement i suggested to Gary (gazjam) & even after he swapped stuff about it was the best sounding setup so he was happy to settle with it :)
Yup, Marks' suggestion worked out the best for me, even after faffing around of a rainy Sunday afternoon trying different combinations.
Fit n' forget. :)
Balanced mains transformers are relevant, yes. They naturally cancel common mode interference, though they aren't cheap :rolleyes:
As for your kit, i'd plug the amp into the wall & then take a carefull look at your equipment. Anything using switch mode power supplies plug into the video sockets. Anything using normal mains PSU & transformers plug into the audio sockets.
If you have anything else that draws high current like a TV, plug that into the switched socket.
That is the exact arrangement i suggested to Gary (gazjam) & even after he swapped stuff about it was the best sounding setup so he was happy to settle with it :)
Thanks Mark, that's good.
Being somewhat naive, I've no idea which bits use a switch-mode supply and which don't. Is that the same as the 'wall-mart' supplies? The CD player must have a standard psu. The Touch is a wall-mart and I'm unsure as to the Caiman (Stan's uprated PS), and the turntable.
Any advice would be greatly welcomed.
Thanks
Richard
Reid Malenfant
21-09-2011, 19:47
The Caiman PSU is SMPS, i know as i breifly owned one, plug that into the video sockets. I'm pretty sure the same goes with the Touch...
So plug the TT & CD player in the audio sockets & the above into the video sockets, that way the SMPS won't interfere anywhere near as much with the standard PSUs in the CD & TT.
Hope that helps :)
The Caiman PSU is SMPS, i know as i breifly owned one, plug that into the video sockets. I'm pretty sure the same goes with the Touch...
So plug the TT & CD player in the audio sockets & the above into the video sockets, that way the SMPS won't interfere anywhere near as much with the standard PSUs in the CD & TT.
Hope that helps :)
Mark, that's great; just what I needed!
BW
Richard
ursus262
21-09-2011, 20:49
What a performance. I only hope it's worth it.
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