PS Audio Power Plant P5

[Ammonite Audio]

I've had the new PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant P5 since last Wednesday, bought from Kevin at Signature Systems. Kevin brought it over and installed it personally, which was nice. I bought the P5 largely because of the reliability question mark over the old Power Plant Premier, coupled with the fact that I really could live without this sort of mains treatment if the PPP went tits up. Is the P5 better? In almost every respect, yes it is. It's physically less bulky than the PPP, being no deeper than the average audio component; mine is a special order in silver, which does look rather smart, matching my Lyngdorf gear perfectly. Slight disappointment to see only 4 UK mains sockets, which I assume is to do with their being bigger than US ones. I can live with that.

I can certainly live with the sound from my system, fed from the P5. LPs have never sounded so good, and there is a real difference in the way soundstage and vocals come across, compared with the PPP (already rather good). I have waited until now to make sure that the 'difference' really does mean 'improvement' and I'm convinced that is the case. The bottom line is that I'm enjoying fantastic sounds and tunes, which can't be bad at all.

So, price tag aside, I can very much recommend the P5. The new gadgetry on the front panel that lets you see the waveforms as scope traces is icing on the cake.

[Reid Malenfant]

Continuous output power?

Distortion on the output?

Just asking Hugo as the PPP depended on the input & output voltage settings to get the lowest distortion (i think i know why)..

[MartinT]

Good to know, Hugo. I'm a bit annoyed that my PPP sits between the P5 and P10 in terms of power output, meaning that I will need to go to the latter to replace the PPP in my system. Still, you've convinced me that it's worth pursuing, so maybe next year.

[Ammonite Audio]

Continuous output power?

Distortion on the output?

Just asking Hugo as the PPP depended on the input & output voltage settings to get the lowest distortion (i think i know why)..

According to PS Audio ( http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/perfectwave-power-plant-5?cat=power ) it's rated at 1000w continuous output power.

As for distortion, my old PPP could not better 0.4% distortion on the output - the P5 does 0.1% on sine wave output, 0.4% on Multiwave (which I don't use). The P5 is a bit more clever in terms of its regulation and seems to do well even when asked to drop from 250v input to 240v output - the display will show a "high regulation" label but that's it. So, I don't think that juggling input v output for optimum distortion is so necessary on the P5, as it was with the PPP. One big benefit of the P5 is being able to adjust output voltage from the touchscreen.

The scope function really is interesting, because it allows me to see the rather uneven waveform of the incoming mains, compared with the perfect output. There is a 'difference' screen, and the line is all over the place, but uncalibrated.

[Reid Malenfant]

Cheers for the information Hugo, much appreciated :)

[MartinT]

My PPP runs at 0.4% output distortion with Multiwave switched on after I optimised the output voltage to 242V. Interesting that the P5 sounds better - I think I read that PS Audio have got a finer DAC defining the waveform so lower THD.

[ursus262]

I've looked at the website, but they don't quote prices there. Are they expensive?

[MartinT]

I paid £1700 for my PPP (one of the very first UK models) but I'm not sure what the P5/P10 list at. If you can find a used PPP that would be a bargain. The return on investment is far greater than any other component change in a system without mains treatment.

[ursus262]

That's quite expensive. Very expensive in fact. I paid just over £200 for a balanced mains transformer. So what is it about these mains regenerators that make them worth the extra?

I have a specific interest in mains issues and how they affect system performance, and wonder if regeneration of the sine wave is likely to be superior to that found on the output of balanced mains.

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Dave, they should have much lower waveform distortion. They also output balanced mains, or at least the PS Audio units do.

I have one of the earlier units, a P600 which is effectively a pair of amplifiers in a bridge which drives a transformer to generate the output. Effectively the distortion is as low as the distortion of the 50Hz generator, power amps & the transformer, this should be well below 0.1%

The newer PPP & the P5 & P10 do things differently, they are much more efficient, but they have more distortion :rolleyes: The output voltage you can set also tends to depend on the input voltage as well for least distortion. Im not 100% sure how they work but some form of low voltage correction amps are used to clean up the mains as best as possible given the rail voltage limitations.

The earlier units were less compromised & did a better job but were about as efficient as a class A power amp :eyebrows:

[ursus262]

It sounds all a bit over-engineered to me

[Reid Malenfant]

It depends on how clean you want your mains Dave ;) Even with a dedicated spur i was still getting clicks & pops from things like the fridge & freezer cutting off. Now i power my complete front end from the P600 all i get is silence & that lovely clean sound of 3AM all the time :eyebrows:

Well worth it & i couldn't live without it having experienced it in all honesty!

[MartinT]

As Mark says, a regenerator rebuilds the mains waveform actively to be as perfect as possible whereas any transformer or filter cannot rebuild the damage that all the houses and industry in the area do to distort the waveform.

The PPP, P5 and P10 all use methods to track the incoming waveform and repair it with tracking amps. They are essentially very efficient - complicated, sure. I run my entire system, including power amp, from one PPP and it doesn't even get warm.

Unlike Mark's opinion, to me they all sound quite a lot better than the old P300, P600 etc., even with the multiwave upgrades. I still have a P300 for comparison.

If you consider that all signals start as DC power within component power supplies, then you can see that your system quality is inextricably linked to the quality of your mains, no matter how much power supply filtering goes on. The best example of this is my Chord power amp which uses a switched mode power supply. You might think that all that chopping action would disregard the quality of mains but it's not so and the Chord is dramatically affected by use from the PPP.

To me, the PPP is a vital component in my system that I would not be without. The proof really is in the listening. In the context of my system's price, it is inexpensive for the impact it makes. By all reports, the P5/P10 may be even more so.

Oh, and I share Mark's inky black universe, there is a very low noise floor and I never, ever, suffer from pops, clicks or the local taxi firm's calls.

[Ammonite Audio]

The P5 is expensive, very expensive compared to the PPP. Part of that is justified by the enhanced performance, but PS Audio also moved their production back to the States from China (because the PPP reliability issues threatened the whole company, according to an interview that PS Audio did with a local newspaper in Boulder), so that move didn't help costs. It did certainly help quality, though, and it's reassuring to know that the P5 will be reliable.

One trick that regenerators like the PPP and P5 can do is to modify the output voltage. Here, my incoming voltage is typically around 250v, which is uncomfortably high for much gear that is set for a nominal 220-230v. Tweaking the output voltage for optimum distortion and best listening pleasure is something unique to these devices.

In the end, I believe that the substantial cost of the P5 is justified by the improvement in listening pleasure. I reckon that I'd have to spend much more elsewhere in the system to get the same sort of benefit.

[MartinT]

One trick that regenerators like the PPP and P5 can do is to modify the output voltage. Here, my incoming voltage is typically around 250v, which is uncomfortably high for much gear that is set for a nominal 220-230v. Tweaking the output voltage for optimum distortion and best listening pleasure is something unique to these devices.

Yes indeed, I too have high mains power at 252V and the PPP set for lowest distortion pushes out 241V, so my components are guaranteed longer life too.

I'll take another look at the P5 but I do wish it had 5 output zones/sockets like the PPP.

[Ammonite Audio]

I need to say that, now the P5 is run in a bit, I'm getting really astonishingly good sounds from my system, far better than with the old PPP. I am genuinely surprised at the magnitude of improvement over the PPP. Having relocated a brace of lively puppies from the living room, I celebrated by putting Keb' Mo' (by Keb' Mo') on the Thorens platter and I've never heard it better - rich, detailed, rhythmic, vibrant but not tiring, hugely enjoyable.

The P5 still comes in at a rather high price, but having taken the plunge I'm totally convinced. It does not detract at all from whatever music is being played; indeed it seems to get closer the the "clean window" on the music that we all strive for.

[MartinT]

Great news, Hugo. It has now become a target for me :)

[Ammonite Audio]

I thought some of you might be interested in seeing some photos of the P5's screen, and what it shows. Here is the Home Screen:

http://i41.tinypic.com/snykug.jpg

In the Setup menu, you can choose between "Low Distortion" or "High Regulation" and (joy of joys) adjust the output voltage from the touch screen. Since I need to drop quite a few volts from my 250v mains there is no choice but to go for "High Regulation":

http://i43.tinypic.com/n507jd.jpg

Each outlet can be configured independently too:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2m3sb40.jpg

The Scope screen is interesting, in that you can see the distortion on the incoming and output waveforms. Here you can see the "slopes" of the sine wave are rather straight, and the crests are a tad flattened:

http://i41.tinypic.com/znu4c9.jpg

Now look at the corrected waveform:

http://i43.tinypic.com/m9xa2q.jpg

A further screen gives the "difference" between the two:

http://i41.tinypic.com/igvxux.jpg

I'm still pleased with the P5. Apparently the price is going up quite significantly - if that's true I would doubt whether it's still value for money, but for someone with problem mains it may be the only straightforward and fuss-free option.

[Reid Malenfant]

Looks like a nice bit of Kit Hugo :) Just out of interest, what price are these things at the present?

[Ammonite Audio]

Looks like a nice bit of Kit Hugo :) Just out of interest, what price are these things at the present?

Take a deep breath .......................... £3500 :(

[MartinT]

It's an even deeper breath for the P10 :(

[Reid Malenfant]

Take a deep breath .......................... £3500 :(
Ouch :eek:

I thought you said take a deep breath, I didn't realise you were going to punch me in the guts & wind me :eyebrows:

[MartinT]

Well I could wait no more. My system is singing so well that I have decided the next upgrade must be to the mains again. GIGO, right? I've made enquiries and special ordered a silver P10 - the standard model is black. The UK spec model has 9 outlets in 5 zones. Perfect, since I use all 5 zones in my Power Plant Premier currently. I run the power amp from it too as the Chord responds so well to clean power.

The big differences between the P5 and P10 are: P10 can supply 1.25kW loads (P5 is 1kW); P10 is passively heatsinked (P5 has fan cooling); P10 has more reservoir storage.

I will partly fund it by knowing that I can get a fair price for the PPP being as it's an early - reliable - US built one. It's been running constantly for 4 1/2 years now.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Just a quick question to other members.

I have a ISOTEK GII NOVA so my thoughts were to run the P5 through the NOVA get really clean mains and then reconstruct the sine wave to my 1210, phonostage etc linked into the back of the p5. Do you think that this is a valid thing to do or would you simply ditch the NOVA and go for the P5 or p10?

I'd simply like ultra clean filtering and a near as perfect sine wave'd power supply to go into my 1210.

andy

[John]

Can I ask what you using the Nova for Andrew
I would imagine the P% would be a upgrade from the Nova

[Wakefield Turntables]

Cause you can ask! It's just to filter the mains supply into all my components. I've some pretty big active speakers ATC 50ASL's, they each have 3 amps built into them (making a total of 6). I then run a pre-amp, a phonostage and the 1210. Occasionally I may play the odd CD :lol: So, as you can see quite a few bits and pieces. :cool:

[John]

With that kind of set up you need as much capacity as possible and would only use the filter for the source side The rest I would use the PS Audio or a really big balanced mains transformer

[Wakefield Turntables]

The NOVA has too specially designed sockets for higher rates equipment so both ATC's go in these. The preamp, 1210 and phonostage go in the lower rated sockets. I'm not quite sure what you mean by I'd use the filter for the source side, are you advocating running the NOVA through the P5 and then running all the seperates through the NOVA? (Sorry for being a dumbass) :scratch:

[MartinT]

Remember, Andy, that the PPP can supply up to 1kW (although around 700W max would be a sensible limit). It has five sockets/zones, each isolated from the others. You can therefore run the phono gear, preamp and other source components into it, all getting clean power. I can't see any benefit in using it with the Nova - it requires a low impedance feed and supplies low impedance output, so you don't want a filter in the circuit.

I run my power amp from it, but you would have to be careful with valve amps or class A as you might overload it.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thanks Martin as ever!