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View Full Version : Mac (mini) to Beresford DAC: Optical or USB?



Hugo
15-09-2011, 09:31
Hi all,
If I want to hook up my mac mini to a Beresford DAC, what would give a better sound quality, Optical TOSlink or USB?
It's just for stereo music playback, nothing fancy. The mac mini only has built-in sound of which the analog output is terrible but that doesn't affect digital out, right?
I can't really hear for myself because depending on what's better I need to buy the 2x optical version or the 1x optical and 1x USB. At least one optical input is required for another device.
The Beresford DAC will be a preamp and volume regular to a Quad 405-2.
Any advice is appreciated!
Cheers!

Werner Berghofer
15-09-2011, 09:38
Hugo,


I can't really hear for myself because depending on what's better I need to buy the 2x optical version or the 1x optical and 1x USB.

honestly, I can’t hear any difference in sound quality when connecting my Mac Mini via USB or optical S/PDIF to the Beresford DAC. I use the 3.5 mm optical S/PDIF output because I don’t want to “waste” an USB port. Therefore I prefer the 2 × Coaxial, 2 × Optical variant (aka “Caiman+”) of the Beresford Caiman.

The quality of the built-in analogue output of the Mac Mini does not matter; it is being completely by-passed the moment an optical connection to an output device is detected.

Werner.

Alan
15-09-2011, 12:40
Hi Hugo,

I am afraid I don't agree with Werner, what's more I feel you are between a rock and a hard place. I did not like the Macmini optical output into a Theta, Caiman, Dacmagic or much else - I just found it to be poor full stop.

I am much happier using USB, but I also found the Caiman to be wanting (in much the same manner as the Dacmagic) over USB.

I am not going suggest that a modern USB DAC is the only answer as you seem sold on the Caiman and for sure it is a good DAC. I found it was much improved by using an M2Tech HiFace which will let you get a good USB stream from your MAC and will convert it to S/PDIF, which is imo the best input to use on a Bereford DAC. A HiFace is pretty cheap on eBay these days, and makes a decent upgrade.

Just my opinion folks, based on my time with the same kit.

Werner Berghofer
15-09-2011, 13:27
Alan,


I did not like the Macmini optical output into a Theta, Caiman, Dacmagic or much else - I just found it to be poor full stop.

did you ever a blind test to find out if you could distinguish between the Mac Mini’s optical S/PDIF and it’s USB port output to a DAC?


I found it was much improved by using an M2Tech HiFace […]

I think I have to agree with the statement posted yesterday by ”K3cT“ on Head-FI (http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-one-down-two-to-go-the-information-and-anticipation-thread/780#post_7752193): “I’m convinced that nowadays these USB-to-S/PDIF converters are the new snake oil”.

Yesterday it were audiophile USB cables, today it’s USB-to-S/PDIF (coaxial) converters ;-)

Werner.

DSJR
15-09-2011, 13:34
I believe Alex_UK has the answer for using his "music" laptop with Caiman. he claimed the sound was definitely improved with his little device inserted where the sun don't shine - er, sorry, between the laptop and DAC. Hopefully he'll be along to tell us/me exactly what it was..

Seriously, some of these USB - Optical/SPDIF interfaces have temporal buffers inside, which help with the streaming no end I understand..

Alan
15-09-2011, 15:08
Exactly so Dave - the HiFace I only mention because it is cheap and accessible.

Werner - no I did not blind test anything. Does that make me wrong?:rolleyes: The simple fact is that when I bought the MAC I wanted to get away from CDs into computer audio, and based on my experience with the optical output I almost sold the MAC. My Pioneer stable platter trounced it - no I did not blind test that either. So you see my preference was weighted in favour of computer audio, but it disappointed me (initially).

As regards the comment you link to, which was in discussion of the Schiit BitFrost DAC...that DAC has - and I quote from the Schiit website:"...one of the most advanced asynchronous USB 2.0 input sections available...."

The HiFace is an async converter, providing (no doubt in a cruder way) similar benefits to the Schiit DAC's USB implementation. The async re-clocking is what makes the HiFace beneficial - It is no more snake oil because some bloke on a forum says it is, than I am wrong because I haven't blind tested something!

I recommend the converter because the Caiman is better over S/PDIF than USB. The re-clocking is a bonus.

Alan
15-09-2011, 15:11
Perhaps it is worth adding that my current DAC is used over USB only in my system, it is asynchronous, and it makes no difference whatsoever what USB cable I use with it - I even demo'ed a few boutique cables to be sure. But perhaps I am wrong - I didn't blind test that either.....

Werner Berghofer
15-09-2011, 15:33
Alan,


and I quote from the Schiit website

please note that Schiit implemented the USB connection only as additional option because Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat, both well-known names in the audiophile hardware design business, consider S/PDIF superior to USB (http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-one-down-two-to-go-the-information-and-anticipation-thread/435#post_7595422) (“Sure, there's variation in SPDIF output quality, but we're getting jitter rates from Apple TOSLINK and good PC soundcard coax that are not significantly different than what we get from a good transport.”).

See the Bifrost announcement (http://www.head-fi.org/t/560639/haute-schiit-bifrost-is-world-s-most-affordable-fully-upgradable-dac) on Head-Fi for more details. I pre-ordered a Schiit Bifrost (without USB option) and hope it shall arrive in my home in the first week of October.

However, on your Mac Mini digital audio sounds better when output via USB, while on my Mac Mini nobody (including me) is able to hear a difference between USB and optical S/PDIF when connected to a Beresford Caiman DAC. So be it ;-)

Werner.

Alan
15-09-2011, 15:43
Werner,

Congratulations on your new DAC - I hope it works really well for you.

Quite why the Schitt designer's opinion of USB vs S/PDIF is relevant to the *Async USB vs MINI Toslink from a MAC* comparison I do not know...

If I read post 10 from your link correctly, it seems that the designer is actually saying the non-USB model is the low-cost option, not that USB is a poor value add-on option. To wit:

Jason Stoddard: "A Bifrost without USB is certainly not "incomplete." It's simply an option for people who don't need USB."

Now you might be right about Stoddard's own view on USB vs S/PDIF, but you have managed to make two quotes in this thread that have been completely out of context and potentially misleading. Why would you do that please?

Werner Berghofer
15-09-2011, 16:20
[sigh]

Spur07
15-09-2011, 20:25
if you want to really push the boat out try one of jkeny's modded hiface, but it aint cheap.

alternatively, the Audio GD digital interface is apparently on a par and much cheaper, (mains adapter not required, makes little difference to SQ apparently):

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/USBface/Digital1EN.htm

Alex_UK
15-09-2011, 22:12
The device Dave is referring to is mentioned in this thread (there's another one somewhere, but I can't find it) - the
FANMUSIC FM-6011 COAX @ USB to SPDIF/COAX Converter (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FANMUSIC-FM-6011-COAX-USB-SPDIF-COAX-Converter-NEW-/120723650645?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_So undCards&hash=item1c1bb0b855#ht_2992wt_905&clk_rvr_id=265242543378&afsrc=1) - I bought one following the recommendation of John and Mark (Reid Mallenfant.) http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12885&highlight=spdif+converter

In my current circumstances, this converter is doing the business - with my Creek amp, I could not really notice much difference, but since temporarily moving to my old Audiolab 8000S, the sound was harsh and fatiguing, although partly due to the fact that for some reason I was playing this combo louder than the Creek (which has a digital indicator of volume and was therefore much easier to set at a "normal" level.)

Anyway, with the Audiolab to start with, the sound was screechy and harsh with the Caiman via USB. Now having used the USB to SPDIF (Coax) converter featured in the above thread, I am much happier - I just noticed John used the word "smooth" and that is how I would describe it - a much smoother and easier (more analogue?) sound, that doesn't grate at all. However, I suspect if the rest of your system is like that it would be a bridge too far... Still, for fifteen quid, it is an amazing bargain, and cheap enough to have a go, then sell it on for a tenner if no good... :)

colinB
15-09-2011, 22:46
I just bought a Sony usb/optical converter for £10 from ebay. They are old models which Sony marketed to the mini disc market so you can get them cheap. It means i can use spotify through a better dac , the usb dac is only 16 bit.
It sounded good to my lugs but i was to lazy to blind test so i cant swear on it.