View Full Version : Opinions on Cambridge Audio DacMagic
sburrell
01-09-2011, 22:44
Hi,
Thinking of getting one of these as there're a few on eBay for a reasonable price. How does it compare to a fully-upgraded 7510 (except for the passive mod)?
Thanks.
wee tee cee
02-09-2011, 16:08
Great wee DAC.I have had one for couple of years,my son uses it now.I bought a russ andrews PSU for it which improved things noticeably,dare say the maplin Psu would do the same for less.Cant compare it with the 7510 but it does 95% of what my MF M1 does.
When you say "fully upgraded 7510" you mean a Caiman ? :scratch:
If it's the case, then a Dac Magic is no better. Slightly different, certainly. ;)
sburrell
02-09-2011, 23:11
Themis, I think I recall reading that you couldn't upgrade the 7510 as far as a Caiman (or possibly even the 7520) because of insurmountable internal differences.
I came across a What HiFi? comparison that claimed the DacMagic was better than a 7520, so that along with your endorsement Tony encourages me to give bidding a punt.
Thanks :)
If it's "just" an upgraded 7510 then DacMagic is better, if I recall properly.
Better jitter rejection and better upsampling. Less "raw", imho. ;)
There are better options (like Tubemagic) but it's a fairly neutral dac. Does the job well.
Stan is such an obliging chap and the Caiman is so tweakable, I'd still be inclined to look there instead, as there's such a large Caiman fraternity here..
dave2010
03-09-2011, 11:00
I borrowed a DacMagic from Richer sounds (sometimes they'll let you do that...) and took it back a few days later. As I recall it didn't give a significantly better output than either my Squeezebox or my CD player. I then ordered a Caiman, which certainly seemed different initially, and to my surprise seemed to have a substantial burn in period over which the SQ did seem to improve significantly. One advantage of my Caiman (an unmodified one) is that it has a headphone output, which has on occasions been very useful. Some would say that a better headphone amplifier is needed for really serious listening on good quality headphones, but at the price the Caiman was very good value for me. Maybe Stan is still offering a discount if you mention this forum.
The DacMagic is good, but I felt it didn't give me anything extra over my other kit at the time. For a replacement for a computer sound card etc. it's undoubtedly very good.
Since then other DACs have come on the scene - some in the same price range, and arguably some better ones at higher prices.
The prices for "pre-owned" DAcMagics and Caimans on eBay are not dissimilar.
I thought the Cambridge Dac Magic sounded rather dry and un-involving personally.
Had a DM here for a couple of years and can't fault it.
In fact its our stock budget dac recommendation along with the MF V-Dac. Nothing between them.
Never tried a Caiman but also looks a decent bit of kit.
IMHO the Caimen wipes the floor with a DacMagic.
There is just more life, more control, bigger sound stage... and as DSJR pointed out it can be upgraded if you want to.
When I first got mine it took quite a long 'burn in' period to sound at it's best but now it is something quite exceptional.
The combination of it with the Squeezebox gives my Naim CDI a run for it's money which still shocks me.. Yes, the CDI is better, but not much considering the difference in the initial cost differences.
Paul.
wee tee cee
03-09-2011, 19:30
My dac majic with squeeze box duet and half decent interconnects gave my naim 5i a a bloody nose.To the extent I never spun a disk again and traded the naim in for a MF dac.
Im talking belkin( truly amazed interconnects) nothing fancy or budget bursting....
sburrell
03-09-2011, 19:59
I'll come clean: the main reason for the interest in the DacMagic is the balanced outputs. I have this perverse desire to get a DAC that I can use with the balanced (TRS) inputs on my active speakers. In addition, my purchase of the TASCAM FireOne hasn't been as smooth as I'd like (some incompatibility issues with GTA: Vice City for example).
DSJR: The DacMagic seems to have an after-market upgrade path too, though I admit I haven't yet determined whether it's for the new, small-format DacMagic or the earlier full-size ones.
There're about four available on eBay starting at £90, so I don't expect to pay more than £150 all-in. I've also got my eyes on a 2nd-hand Caiman, to replace my pimped 7510.
Thanks for the feedback, guys :)
Good luck :)
Me, I have started using a certain QED two-box affair I bought from a chap named Simon (:lol:). One of the output caps in the power supply was leaking, so I've replaced both of them here (both boxes run warm and I reckon the first owner left it powered 24/7 - the caps didn't look to be anything special either). It works fine and I have plans to twin-supply it (thanks Stan :)) and at least it has two inputs, coax and optical (ancient basic optical lead does fine with DCD1520 as transport :))
Dave is that the old Digit?
Was the PSU called the Positron (rings a bell....)?
Yep :)
I found the Digit with supplied wall-wart to sound a bit safe and sweet - "Nice" sort of sums it up. Adding the Positron really does bring the thing alive and when I used it with the Micro-Seiki as transport, I have to admit not being able to tell the difference between Micro on the (better and purpose designed) balanced outputs and the QED via it's single ended :o
realmassy
04-09-2011, 19:35
I can't say anything about the Caiman, but I didn't like the DacMagic at all, probably the worst DAC I've ever owned. I bought it from RicherSounds and sent it back after 3 days.
The V-DAC on the other hand was very nice sounding.
sburrell
04-09-2011, 19:57
Dave: aha! Your opinion of the Digit + Positron has certainly grown over time! And why the thanks to Stan regarding twin-supplying it? Has he been able to suggest or offer a replacement for a second (near impossible to find) Positron?
RealMassy: I actually performed a side-by-side between my un-pimped Beresford 7510 and a V-DAC way back at the beginning of my AoS membership. The review is here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3907). Yours is the only negative review so far of the DacMagic - were you auditioning it under good circumstances (I mean, with a good system)? Either way, I guess no DAC pleases everybody ("You can't fool all the people all the time", as they say ;) ).
Anyway, the first one on eBay sold already for £170, which is more than I wanted to pay. Two more to go *fingers crossed*
realmassy
04-09-2011, 20:42
I know sburrell!
Everyone is praising that dac, and I actually bought it and used it my setup for 3 days before returning it. Oddly enough, that is the only dac I didn't like AT ALL.
It uses the same chip of the Meier StageDac, and though it wasn't my kind of sound, it was way better than my DacMagic. I guess mine might have been faulty.
The Pink Panther
06-09-2011, 08:13
Let's be realistic for a moment. The Dacmagic is a very good bit of equipment and worth the £200 or so pounds needed to by one. I have heard a wide range of DACs from inexpensive to costing the earth and The DM doesn't disgrace itself at all.
The Pink Panther
06-09-2011, 08:18
oh and I would recommend the steep filter it has a good natural sound.
sburrell
07-09-2011, 10:11
Well, unfortunately all the examples in this scenario bid beyond my range. Better luck next time, I'm thinking. :(
What I couldn't help noticing was that someone bid £199 for a second-hand example of the current model, plus £10 postage. Craziness, considering they're available brand-new for £229 on Amazon :mental:
The Pink Panther
07-09-2011, 10:54
Simon just noticed you have The BR2's, the Beresford Caiman works very nicely with these speakers. So maybe save up and give it a go.
Simon, see you in Scotland.
If your ever over near Glasgow way your welcome to pop over and have a listen to the Caiman. Mines is fully modded and has a great linear PSU..so sounds the business.
Gary.
sburrell
12-09-2011, 21:01
Hey,
I just picked up a second-hand Caiman on eBay, and have just agreed to sell my modded 7510. Once I've heard the Caiman in my system I'll take you up on your offer and hear what a fully-modded one sounds like. Thanks :)
Kind of gutted that my 7510 (original purchase price: £130 two years ago) plus mods (rough remembered price: £80 one year ago) is now waiting for collection for £115, but *shrugs* that's the way the cookie crumbles. The 7520 has come down in price to where the 7510 used to be more or less, so there's nothing to be done. Hopefully the added quality of the Caiman will soften the blow. :)
I tried a 7510 a couple pf years back but it didnt stay in system for long, to be honest I prefered my DVD player (SD9500).
The dacmagic made a very marginal improvement but still far too clinical for me, sort of fell some where between the upsampled and non upsampled outputs on the DVD player, maybe a tad less shrill at the top end though (I have a bright system) but nothing special.
I was bit dubious about the Caiman before I heard it, I thought AoS might be hyping it a little but it was in my humble opinion a huge improve improvment on the 7510 and the Dacmagic - very impressed I finally had a smile back on my face. PRAT was far better, more air round the instruments and good detail.
Next stop was the Gator and this improved matters - subtle but worthwhile.
Just waiting on my Audiolab Mdac to arrive now
sburrell
13-09-2011, 19:30
Well, I just managed to bag myself a DacMagic Mk3 on eBay for £113!
Ian: what's PRAT? Not familiar with that one. Glad to hear you think so highly of the Caiman though. It does seem to be universally praised, and seeing as I'd gone as far as I wanted with the 7510 in terms of upgrades, it seemed the right time to get the Caiman - now I can start the tweak path afresh!
Kind of curious to see what can be done with the DacMagic Mk3 too. From what I understand the mk3 already took advantage of some worthwhile tweaks over the original Mk1 and Mk2, but if I think there was still scope for improvement.
On a related note: I found a forum where the designer of the DacMagic himself got involved with a discussion on modding the DacMagic, and opined that the IsoMagic was a far superior design (also his work), and would respond well to tweaking. I'll try and post a link to it if I find it again.
If its the one that sold for £103 + £10 PP would be interested in your thoughts on it - looks mighty similar externally to the Mk 1 and 2 which were to me a tad rought and ready sounding albeit great fun for very little cash.
One of the mags several years back did a component upgrade on the Mk2 which was meant to yield good results - probably got a hard copy some where
PRAT - Pace Rythm and Timing
I believe John Westlake, designed the earlier Dacmagics and he is saying his new Audiolab Mdac is his best ever so far - better than the Decapo even - huge thread on Pink Fish
Also for the tweakers the Audiolab PSU looks to offer serious upgrade potential
Hey,
I just picked up a second-hand Caiman on eBay, and have just agreed to sell my modded 7510. Once I've heard the Caiman in my system I'll take you up on your offer and hear what a fully-modded one sounds like. Thanks :)
Kind of gutted that my 7510 (original purchase price: £130 two years ago) plus mods (rough remembered price: £80 one year ago) is now waiting for collection for £115, but *shrugs* that's the way the cookie crumbles. The 7520 has come down in price to where the 7510 used to be more or less, so there's nothing to be done. Hopefully the added quality of the Caiman will soften the blow. :)
Not a problem Simon, just gimme a holler when you fancy a listen :)
If its the one that sold for £103 + £10 PP would be interested in your thoughts on it - looks mighty similar externally to the Mk 1 and 2 which were to me a tad rought and ready sounding albeit great fun for very little cash.
One of the mags several years back did a component upgrade on the Mk2 which was meant to yield good results - probably got a hard copy some where
PRAT - Pace Rythm and Timing
I believe John Westlake, designed the earlier Dacmagics and he is saying his new Audiolab Mdac is his best ever so far - better than the Decapo even - huge thread on Pink Fish
Also for the tweakers the Audiolab PSU looks to offer serious upgrade potential
Does the MDac actually exist? :scratch:
I suspect with the spate of new £500(ish) Dacs, maybe this is not a good time to come to market with another "me too" product.
I reckon it'll be something special, but who wants to wait...and wait..and wait...for it?
Actually I don't mind waiting, as I already owe two great dacs (Northstar & Caiman). ;)
Ali Tait
14-09-2011, 05:21
I'm more than happy with my new valve dac. Blows anything else I've heard out of the water.
StanleyB
14-09-2011, 07:35
Kind of gutted that my 7510 (original purchase price: £130 two years ago) plus mods (rough remembered price: £80 one year ago) is now waiting for collection for £115, but *shrugs* that's the way the cookie crumbles. The 7520 has come down in price to where the 7510 used to be more or less, so there's nothing to be done. Hopefully the added quality of the Caiman will soften the blow.
The TC-7510 once sold for £89.99, before the £ nose dived on the currency exchange. And soon afterwards I became VAT registered, which added 17.5% to my prices.
The TC-7520 price came down once I had amortized its R&D cost. Similarly, the Caiman, and now the Gatorized Caiman, have come down in prize once the extra R&D cost were recovered.
But I do my best to keep one eye on cost and one eye on performance so that my prices are wallet friendly:).
Ali Tait
14-09-2011, 07:54
Your dacs are a bargain Stan.
Does the MDac actually exist? :scratch:
John Westlake brought a couple over from China, first batch, of about 200, is due to be shipped on 24 Sept. So pre orders should be filled at the end of September or very early October
sburrell
14-09-2011, 09:04
Stan,
I hope you don't think I was complaining.:o I agree with Ali that the 7510 and (as I'm hoping to confirm shortly) most likely the Caiman are excellent value for money. I was just having a grumble :) I guess I should have just sold the 7510 instead of upgrading it and put the £80 towards the Caiman instead.
Oooooh, there's the buzzer - it's the postman with my Caiman!!!!! *giddy as a schoolboy*
StanleyB
14-09-2011, 09:08
Stan,
I hope you don't think I was complaining.:o
Of course not :).
sburrell
15-09-2011, 12:58
Well, my DacMagic Mk3 has arrived and appears to be in excellent working order! I haven't plugged it in yet, I wanted to ask a question about it first.
I'd like to place the DAC directly underneath my 23'' Apple Cinema Display (ie. supporting its weight directly), and whilst the case appears to be sturdy enough, I'd like to seek some advice on this first. Should this be safe for the DAC? Will it affect heat dissipation?
The ACD weighs 7kg, according to EveryMac (http://www.everymac.com/).
Thanks.
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