How do you feel about the NHS?

[DaveK]

Hi All,
Hopefully Marco will permit this but I fel very strongly about keeping the NHS pretty much as it is, expert help available to those that need it rather than those that can afford it. So, can I make you aware of an e-mail I've just received and ask you to read it and respond as you see fit. If this is not accptable Marco feel free to remove it :)

"In just one week, your MP has to vote on massive changes to our NHS. But 38 Degrees members now have something our MPs don’t – thorough, independent legal advice about what these changes really mean.

Our expert legal advice is sobering. Despite the “listening exercise”, the government’s changes to the NHS plans could still pave the way for a shift towards a US-style health system, where private companies profit at the expense of patient care.

MPs are being told by the government that the NHS is safe. If they read our evidence they’ll know that the spin doesn’t stand up. We can put them under massive pressure to vote to save our NHS. So we need to work together to get the legal advice to our MPs right now!

Email your MP now:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/email-the-evidence

Our independent lawyers identified two major problems in the new legislation:
The Secretary of State’s legal duty to provide a health service will be scrapped. On top of that, a new “hands-off clause” removes the government's powers to oversee local consortia and guarantee the level of service wherever we live. We can expect increases in postcode lotteries – and less ways to hold the government to account if the service deteriorates.
The NHS will almost certainly be subject to UK and EU competition law and the reach of procurement rules will extend across all NHS commissioners. Private health companies will be able to take new NHS commissioning groups to court if they don’t win contracts. Scarce public money could be tied up in legal wrangles instead of hospital beds. Meanwhile, the legislation lifts the cap on NHS hospitals filling beds with private patients.
So who are MPs going to listen to when casting their vote – you, or lobbyists from private health companies? This is our NHS, and it’s up to us to defend it. Email your MP now:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/email-the-evidence

It’s pretty extraordinary what we’ve managed to achieve together already. Nearly half a million of us have signed the petition to save the NHS. And after Andrew Lansley announced the last round of changes, thousands of 38 Degrees members immediately chipped in to get top independent legal advice on the new plans.

Barrister Rebecca Haynes found that the government's plans could pave the way for private healthcare companies and their lawyers to benefit most from changes, not patients. Another barrister, Stephen Cragg, found that we were right to be worried that Andrew Lansley was planning to remove his duty to provide our NHS.

This is the conclusion of a top legal team paid to have no other interest at heart but yours.

MPs vote in just seven days. Seven days to not only get the evidence, but be convinced there’s way too much public concern to ignore it. The good news is, with over 800,000 of us now armed with expert legal advice, we are just the people to speak up. Let’s give MPs from all parties the mandate they need to think again and vote against these changes to the NHS.
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/email-the-evidence


Thanks,

Johnny, David, Cian, Becky, Hannah, Marie and the 38 Degrees team.


PS:
Thousands of us chipped in to pay for lawyers to get a clear understanding of Lansley’s new proposals. This shows what we can all do together to make a difference. Right now, we can use this evidence to tell our MPs to face down NHS changes in Parliament next Tuesday.
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/email-the-evidence

NOTES
You can view the full report from the legal team here:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/nhs-legal-advice"

Hope it's of interest.
Cheers,
Dave.

[Effem]

Yet another continuation of the policy promulgated by Thatcher whereby ALL government's responsibilities and obligations are dumped onto the private sector, only this time there isn't a huge money bonanza in selling it all off, so it has to be done by stealth instead.

Just like her opt out scheme for the state pension back in the 80's which has gone tits up big time, farming out the NHS to a plethora of private "trusts" with a commercial contract to supply services to the NHS, will go the same way and us poor sods will STILL have to pay NI and taxes regardless, with an "optional" private healthcare plan whenever we need any treatment.

The current economic climate is exactly the right opportunity to facilitate privatisation of the NHS and I have no doubt at all that a lot of back scratching and palm greasing is going on behind the scenes with seats on Boards ready and waiting for the MPs that support it.

[DaveK]

Hi Frank,
I take it you'll sign the petition then? ;)
Dave.

[Darren]

The truth is that the country is, for the foreseeable future, in the financial shit. This means that savings have to be found in as many different places as possible. The NHS is a bottomless pit into which public money must be constantly pumped.
We all love the NHS, it's a brilliant precious thing. But we have to live in the real world. Savings must be found. But where? Not the Police, not the emergency services, not education, not healthcare. So where?
This isn't politics, it's simple economics. We as a nation cannot afford the NHS as it stands.
I'm no Tory but I have to tell you that they inherited this whole mess and they are trying to sort it out as best they can. It's a shitty, thankless task.

[Darren]

People will always sign a petition against change. But we are destined to ride the dragon of change - if I could cry a bucket of tears and it would make any difference I would, but it won't so we have to get on on with it.

[Welder]

The truth is that the country is, for the foreseeable future, in the financial shit.
We all love the NHS, it's a brilliant precious thing. But we have to live in the real world. Savings must be found. But where? Not the Police, not the emergency services, not education, not healthcare. So where?
This isn't politics, it's simple economics. We as a nation cannot afford the NHS as it stands.

Apparently the wealth of the UK has grown unabated for some years now so I’m not sure the “we can’t afford it” argument is valid.

Yes it is politics and not a simple matter of economics.

While it is true the UK has an enormous debt, exactly who is responsible for this debt.
No doubt who is being told they must pay for it though is there.

It seems other countries with a worse international credit rating are prepared to defend certain areas of social welfare. If the country, as in the overall population couldn’t afford a health service (as in the population is too poor) then there wouldn’t be much point in privatizing sections of it would there because no one would have the money to pay for it.

[Darren]

Apparently the wealth of the UK has grown unabated for some years now so I’m not sure the “we can’t afford it” argument is valid.

Yes it is politics and not a simple matter of economics.

While it is true the UK has an enormous debt, exactly who is responsible for this debt.
No doubt who is being told they must pay for it though

I think Im missing our unabated wealth at the moment when average household spending power is at its lowest level since 1977 and playing the blame card helps not one little bit. Other countries are other countries we have our own problems and must find our own solutions.

[Themis]

Don't let politicians fool you about NHL or debt. Beware of the bipartite consensus.

Politicians are part of the dominant class so they'll have to defend it by keeping taxes low. But they are being elected by everybody, so they have to keep services (like NHL) active to keep their jobs (on the next election). Politicians are victims of their own schizoid trap.

It's not my business, of course, but I guess you'll have to fight for your rights. An e-mail is a start, but I doubt it will be enough, while pressure becomes harder as crisis lasts longer. ;)

[ursus262]

I have a quite hostile attitude to the NHS, mainly because I have had mostly negative experiences as a patient, and also because having lived in Belgium, I have experience of how things can be much better.

I have had private health insurance since 1987 and have enjoyed a much better standard of care as a result, in clean, well-equipped hospitals.

Unfortunately, a year ago, I was diagnosed with diabetes and, despite my insurance, have needed to interface with the NHS because it is a chronic condition that will stay with me for the rest of my life. The care I have received there has been pretty appalling with the worst experiences being with my local health centre - you go in there and go to reception only to be confronted by a collection of fat, lumpen old bags who treat all their patients as a major inconvenience. A red star and a picture of Lenin, and you'd think you was in the former Soviet Union.

But this is the trouble with the NHS. It is so inflexible that it imposes poor quality primary care as the gateway to all treatment, whether it is NHS or private. It suppresses choice and competition and supports low standards.

If I had my own way, I'd break the NHS up and introduce a system that they have in Europe: sickness insurance funds (Mutualites/Ziekenfonds). It's more efficient, it works better, and the patient enjoys a much better experience as a result.

[DaveK]

I have a quite hostile attitude to the NHS, mainly because I have had mostly negative experiences as a patient, and also because having lived in Belgium, I have experience of how things can be much better.

I have had private health insurance since 1987 and have enjoyed a much better standard of care as a result, in clean, well-equipped hospitals.

Unfortunately, a year ago, I was diagnosed with diabetes and, despite my insurance, have needed to interface with the NHS because it is a chronic condition that will stay with me for the rest of my life.

And the bit in bold is the reason you have a hostile attitude to the NHS? And just where would you be now without it, pray tell? It reads as if the private health insurance, once they realised you were going to be a permanent drain on them, rather than a source of profit, promptly dumped you onto the NHS. This would be fair enough I suppose if you have also been paying your NHS contributions since 1987 but if not, ...........??
Or have I misunderstood? :)
Dave.

[ursus262]

Indeed, you have got the wrong end of the stick and have completely misunderstood!

[DaveK]

Indeed, you have got the wrong end of the stick and have completely misunderstood!

In which case I offer you my profuse apologies :doh:
Dave.

[Neil McCauley]

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13073