PDA

View Full Version : Oh Man... it rings like a bell...



CableMaker1
30-08-2011, 00:57
In case anyone is wondering, I gave the platter the "Ring Test" or "Ping Test" to time how long the platter rings. According to my hearing - I timed the ringing to last 7 seconds. I did this several times, giving the platter a good ping. Each good ping I gave it lasted 7 seconds (according to the atomic clock :eyebrows:).

To perform the test, I removed the platter and held it at its magnet, to avoid any additional platter damping. I used a digital clock to count the seconds. When I was not looking at the clock to count the seconds on some occasions, I thought I was hearing the platter ring for as long as 10 seconds.

If your hearing is better, it would be interesting to hear your results.

Whoever had their platter serviced by Vantage Audio to have the copper-top bonded to the platter, please let us know your results.

Mike

jandl100
30-08-2011, 07:19
Ah - not good. Well, I guess it might be if you like the colouration it induces!

A Herbie mat will damp it nicely, as will a Funk mat. You'll hear a significantly clearer and better focussed sound if you reduce the ringing substantially, ime.

chris@panteg
30-08-2011, 09:33
Hi Mike

Well of course i have the Vantage Audio platter and as its sat in the corner of my room doing nothing , i guess i can do the ringing test and will let you know the result :)

chris@panteg
30-08-2011, 23:26
I would say its almost non resonant , perhaps the tiniest bit for about half a second as a rough guess , pretty impressive , quite keen to get it up and running again to be honest .

CableMaker1
31-08-2011, 01:19
Hi Mike

Well of course i have the Vantage Audio platter and as its sat in the corner of my room doing nothing , i guess i can do the ringing test and will let you know the result :)


You left your TT alone doing nothing??? :stalks: Shame on you... :scratch:

I like having my TTs to do something meaningful - like... :rave:

CableMaker1
31-08-2011, 01:23
I would say its almost non resonant , perhaps the tiniest bit for about half a second as a rough guess , pretty impressive , quite keen to get it up and running again to be honest .

Chris -
How much weight was added to your platter after VA performed the copper-top modification? Did you perform the Mike New Bearing Mod?

:violin:

DSJR
31-08-2011, 08:02
You know, turntables do provide mats which, as well as supporting records, serve to roperly damp any ringing in the platter:eyebrows:

Please fellas, don't get anal about it all :ner::lolsign::cool:

chris@panteg
31-08-2011, 11:11
Chris -
How much weight was added to your platter after VA performed the copper-top modification? Did you perform the Mike New Bearing Mod?

:violin:

Not sure :scratch: I'm guessing about 200-250 gms ?

No i don't have the Mike New bearing , i have the Vantage Audio level 1 bearing mod to the OEM bearing , i actually prefer this to the Timestep bearing which at 150 (at the time) as opposed to the VA at 79 is quite a feat don't you think .

The reason my 1210 is doing nothing is because i sold my Timestep psu , with the intention of getting the VA psu ! But its on hold as we have a kitchen project going on here , and jeez its getting expensive :(
Still not finished either , some issues .

chris@panteg
31-08-2011, 11:15
Oh i thought it might be useful to add , when Richard was last here ,we talked about various psu's available for the 1210 , and Richard has the utmost repect for the one's that Paul Hynes offers ! Less so some other bloke i could mention but i won't :eyebrows:

JazzBones
31-08-2011, 22:36
Oh i thought it might be useful to add , when Richard was last here ,we talked about various psu's available for the 1210 , and Richard has the utmost repect for the one's that Paul Hynes offers ! Less so some other bloke i could mention but i won't :eyebrows:

Come on now Chris, name names, no one can be sued for having 'an opinion' otherwise there would be alot of litigation from Linn against people who go into internet print and call the LP12 crap do you not think? :rolleyes:

Correct me if I'm wrong here but did you not have a Mike New bearing but junked it, or gave up on the idea of getting one, when the propaganda was rife about its so called failings? I seem to recall, on the TimeStep forum, that you were quite a believer in DC's 'holistic approach', what changed your thinking? I left the TS forum for reasons given over here in AoS but I still use a TS HE PSU on my 1210/MN bearing/ etc and see no reason to spend more money until I can hear the (or a) improvement which warrants the change and extra expenditure.

Let me make this absolutely clear that I'm not trying to antagonise you or pick a fight but I'm always suspicious of the saying.. 'i could mention but i won't :eyebrows:'.
If its a valid point (?) and can be proved so then please have the courage to do so.

Ron :)

chris@panteg
31-08-2011, 23:05
Come on now Chris, name names, no one can be sued for having 'an opinion' otherwise there would be alot of litigation from Linn against people who go into internet print and call the LP12 crap do you not think? :rolleyes:


Correct me if I'm wrong here but did you not have a Mike New bearing but junked it, or gave up on the idea of getting one, when the propaganda was rife about its so called failings? I seem to recall, on the TimeStep forum, that you were quite a believer in DC's 'holistic approach', what changed your thinking? I left the TS forum for reasons given over here in AoS but I still use a TS HE PSU on my 1210/MN bearing/ etc and see no reason to spend more money until I can hear the (or a) improvement which warrants the change and extra expenditure.




trying to antagonise you or pick a fight but I'm always suspicious of the saying.. 'i could mention but i won't :eyebrows:'.
If its a valid point (?) and can be proved so then please have the courage to do so.

Ron :)

Fair point :) it is DC .

No i never bought a Mike New bearing , i did have a Timestep bearing and for a while was indeed a follower of Dave's approach but have now changed my allegiance , the crunch was doing an A-B with the VA psu vs the Timestep , the VA psu was vastly superior IMHO , and to add that Richard seemed highly critical of the Timestep psu and how it was implemented , such as the choice of regulator and how it is configured , very cheap and nasty cable + dc connector , etc ,etc .

All i can say is that if anyone is happy with their Timestep psu , HE or otherwise , then continue to use it and happy listening .

CableMaker1
31-08-2011, 23:39
I have the timestep PSU which I am quite happy with right now. It was the only two options I had at the time of purchase (along with the kab PSU being the other), so I went for the timestep. Hence I went with the timestep. But I am always into improvements if they are audible and within affordabile reach.

I would love to get two Paul hynes sr 7 for both of my tts. At the time, I think I can only afford one and with Chris' endorsement, possibly the vantage audio for the other. However, we will see when the time comes when I pull the trigger for both.

I too believed in DCs hollistic approach (despite the fact I never purchased the TS bearing), but a year + later after finding DC's website, I see that approach was abandoned.

Mike

JazzBones
01-09-2011, 11:15
Fair point :) it is DC .

No i never bought a Mike New bearing , i did have a Timestep bearing and for a while was indeed a follower of Dave's approach but have now changed my allegiance , the crunch was doing an A-B with the VA psu vs the Timestep , the VA psu was vastly superior IMHO , and to add that Richard seemed highly critical of the Timestep psu and how it was implemented , such as the choice of regulator and how it is configured , very cheap and nasty cable + dc connector , etc ,etc .

All i can say is that if anyone is happy with their Timestep psu , HE or otherwise , then continue to use it and happy listening .

Thanks for the straight and honest reply, now I understand where you're coming from, just one further point, which TS PSU did Richard do the downer on? I recently had my HE open for inspection and for the price paid found nothing lacking, it was built to a price for commercial sale and as far as I'm aware DC never held a gun to my head and said 'buy it'! Of course it can be improved and I would like to hear it up against the VA PSU. As you have probably gathered by now I'm a cautious old cove and alarm bells ring :eek: when one manufacturer downs a competing manufacturer's product. I believe KAB and DC where the early commercial pioneers of the after market PSU for the 12XX and like most things audio others brought out their wares, at varying times, to compete and to get a slice of the action. A Me too sort of thing, I guess.

Now I find Cawley and intriguing personality, sometimes aloof and vague, possibly up himself (?), and at other times helpful and willing to listen and cut a deal, deserving of censure but not an out right kicking as he sometimes gets, thats why you haven't seen me stick my boot in. By the way you will notice on the TS forum that I have not posted for awhile now, about a year?

I shall continue to contently use my TimeStep HE PSU until something comes along, at a fair price, that convincingly out performs it, I haven't got that closed a mind :eyebrows:

As far as the bearing goes, I was a very early adopter of Mike New's bearing which I tested to near expected destruction; it held its own and then some. I'm now going to get Mike's bearing base plate which, to me at least, will make the MN bearing in combination with the BBP as invincible as a cold war nuke bunker. All other bearings use the stock Technics bearing housing, which is a casting and not as robust as the MN purpose machined one, and variations on the bearing spindle itself. To my mind, adequate but not good enough for me. You make your choices and pay your money accordingly ;)

Ron :)

PS are we still pals? PPS who was the poor sod you sold your cheapo constructed TS PSU, shame on you Chris :lol:?

DSJR
01-09-2011, 20:50
bearing in mind the high costs of all these upgrades, I really wish someone could do some telling objective testing of the competing suppplies for example and how they react with the loading of the stock, almost stock and MN platters/bearings for example.

chris@panteg
01-09-2011, 23:49
Thanks for the straight and honest reply, now I understand where you're coming from, just one further point, which TS PSU did Richard do the downer on? I recently had my HE open for inspection and for the price paid found nothing lacking, it was built to a price for commercial sale and as far as I'm aware DC never held a gun to my head and said 'buy it'! Of course it can be improved and I would like to hear it up against the VA PSU. As you have probably gathered by now I'm a cautious old cove and alarm bells ring :eek: when one manufacturer downs a competing manufacturer's product. I believe KAB and DC where the early commercial pioneers of the after market PSU for the 12XX and like most things audio others brought out their wares, at varying times, to compete and to get a slice of the action. A Me too sort of thing, I guess.

Now I find Cawley and intriguing personality, sometimes aloof and vague, possibly up himself (?), and at other times helpful and willing to listen and cut a deal, deserving of censure but not an out right kicking as he sometimes gets, thats why you haven't seen me stick my boot in. By the way you will notice on the TS forum that I have not posted for awhile now, about a year?

I shall continue to contently use my TimeStep HE PSU until something comes along, at a fair price, that convincingly out performs it, I haven't got that closed a mind :eyebrows:

As far as the bearing goes, I was a very early adopter of Mike New's bearing which I tested to near expected destruction; it held its own and then some. I'm now going to get Mike's bearing base plate which, to me at least, will make the MN bearing in combination with the BBP as invincible as a cold war nuke bunker. All other bearings use the stock Technics bearing housing, which is a casting and not as robust as the MN purpose machined one, and variations on the bearing spindle itself. To my mind, adequate but not good enough for me. You make your choices and pay your money accordingly ;)

Ron :)

PS are we still pals? PPS who was the poor sod you sold your cheapo constructed TS PSU, shame on you Chris :lol:?

Hi Ron :)

Well it was the standard Timestep psu , its not a bad psu but like i said having heard the Vantage effort i just thought i want this !

I just think the TS is maybe overpriced , if Richard can build one for around 200 with what appears to me to be a far superior way of connecting it to the main board of the 1200 , the DC cable and connector on the stock TS supply seems a bit cheap for a psu that costs 300 !

The HE does look a much better psu , though not heard it , I'm not going to actively discourage folks from buying the Timestep stuff , but i must say though that the notion that Dave Cawley was the 1st to produce a high quality outboard psu for the SL1200 series is not true ! Richard has been making one for many years with other upgrades like the platter and bearing as well , but he doesn't make a big deal out of it , in his own words he's the worlds worst salesman .

Dave's got him beat on that score .

No , but continue to use and enjoy your HE Ron , at the moment mine's in limbo , good job i have a couple of spare TT's kicking around the place lol.

Nigel
02-09-2011, 11:12
Chris,

Does the Vantage power supply connect to the turntable the same way as the Timestep? I have the basic Timestep model.

Cheers,

Nigel

MartinT
02-09-2011, 12:32
bearing in mind the high costs of all these upgrades, I really wish someone could do some telling objective testing of the competing suppplies for example and how they react with the loading of the stock, almost stock and MN platters/bearings for example.

It's quite difficult, Dave, because we've all upgraded at different times in a different order. I upgraded my bearing and platter pretty quickly, so I can only tell you about my experiences with the Timestep, Paul Hynes SR-3 and Paul Hynes SR-5 with the above setup and only the Timestep with the original platter & bearing.

chris@panteg
02-09-2011, 17:38
Chris,

Does the Vantage power supply connect to the turntable the same way as the Timestep? I have the basic Timestep model.

Cheers,

Nigel

Hi Nigel , no its quite different , ask Steven as he has the Vantage psu with some extra mods to the main board , check out his thread on here .

Sorry for the thread drift .

spacey
04-09-2011, 00:39
Well I have a fully serviced (by myself) stock SL1210 Mk3D and the platter with original mat on it is as dead as Michael Jackson.

I also oiled the bearing and noticed an improvement in rotational start and stop. Alls silky smooth now. In the service manual it says to oil the main bearing at least every 2000 hours :)

JazzBones
04-09-2011, 12:33
bearing in mind the high costs of all these upgrades, I really wish someone could do some telling objective testing of the competing suppplies for example and how they react with the loading of the stock, almost stock and MN platters/bearings for example.

Have come back to this thread two or three days late, sorry, but had things to do as Hi Fi isn't my only interest. Anyway, back to you Dave mate. Trying to organise a comparison of ALL the various modifications, for better or for worse, available and aimed at the Techncis 12XX in theory would be possible, but in practice it would be a monumental task to undertake akin to listening to ALL re-iterations of the Linn Sondek LP12 from the 1970s to present day, both Linn's own (high cost :rolleyes:) to after market third parties who have seized the opportunity of there being literally thousands of Linns out there available for modification. I remember Arthur K mentioning this very thing to me at a show many years ago when I was seeking info on his mods for the LP12... no disrespect Arthur or marking of the card.

The numerous power supplies, for instance, for the 12XX come in varying abilities and price point to improve the performance of the 12XX. One thing they do not have in common is a standardisation of connection, viz: PSU to the turntable thus making it necessary to fart arse around with the innards of the deck to make comparisons or a comparison unless your the type of person who is into suffering and discomforture, etc. Oh, theres also an upgrade to the circuit board as well to consider. The platter comparison is obviously alot easier as it is no more, or souldn't be, the effort of taking a platter off or hauling various mats, of various design and construction, on and off the platter proper... I'd rather be hauling LPs on and off for listening purposes ;).

We now come to the inevitable situation where we must trust the experience of people we trust, but then again, variables are there, are their likes/dislikes the same as yours:hmm:.

Having said all of the above the question of MONEY comes into the equation... Just how much are you prepared to pay for any of these mods, will you be satisfied, will you spend even more, over to you?

Now, I'm orf to listen to steam radio ;)

Ron