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View Full Version : Album Club: 30.08.2011: Tangerine Dream - Rubycon (1975) (Vinyl, CD, SACD)



keiths
29-08-2011, 23:47
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41C7PZeF5tL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Spotify:

Rubycon Part 1: http://open.spotify.com/track/77WAv8OQNLSQI4rLsN8cQF

Rubycon Part 2: http://open.spotify.com/track/2ZGmQyEuZh2enSejORuHiA


YouTube (with nice video montage):

Rubycon Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xl6zlD_hlE

Rubycon Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qw_9Z_fzww


Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubycon_(album)

Classic 'Berlin School' electronica which had a profound effect on me back in 1975. Turn out the lights, turn up the volume and let it wash all over you for 35 minutes.

Thing Fish
29-08-2011, 23:51
I saw this lot in the 70s. Will be interesting to give this a listen to...

WAD62
30-08-2011, 10:08
I've had this since it was released on vinyl, and bought the CD remaster a couple of years ago...their best work IMHO ;)

I also saw them during the 70's, I think around '76/'77 @ Newcastle City Hall, must have been around the encore tour.

For me they lost their way once they started using polyphonic synths, I prefer the more 'spartan' feel of their earlier work.

4 Stars...:)

keiths
30-08-2011, 11:47
This was the second TD album I bought (first was Phaedra) and still have that "A1/B1" vinyl copy along with the original UK CD and the remastered "Definitive Edition" CD from 1995. First time I saw them live was in 1978 - so I never got to see the classic Froese/Franke/Baumann line-up live :( The last time I saw them live was in 1982 - the same tour that the "Logos Live" album was recorded on.

I lost interest around the time they left Virgin records (in 1983) after the "Hyperborea" album and have only 'dipped in' to their output since then, however their last few releases are very good if not quite a return to their best form. They are mega-prolific these days, having released 2 studio albums, 1 live album and 3 limited-edition eps this year so far, with at least one more studio album scheduled for release before the end of the year. You do wonder if they can maintain quality.

keiths
30-08-2011, 11:50
Lots of voting going on at this very early stage :scratch: - I hope people are actually listening to the album afresh and not going off any preconceptions they might have :steam:

MartinT
30-08-2011, 12:01
No worries here, Keith - I know Rubycon well. My first exposure to TD was Phaedra and my lasting loves have been two dissimilar efforts of theirs: Ricochet and Exit.

I shall play Rubycon again tonight and will write up what I think after a fresh listen.

Tim
30-08-2011, 12:45
I hope people are actually listening to the album afresh and not going off any preconceptions they might have
Looks like that may well be happening, which kind of defeats the object :scratch:
I only have Phaedra and was consumed by it when it first came out. I used to have this on cassette so probably haven't listening to it in over 30 years, so it will be interesting to see how it appeals now?
I've just been listening to Brian Eno, so this will fit in nicely - released the same year too!

Themis
30-08-2011, 14:49
5 stars : a classic for me.

Best listened to with some half-illegal (depending on country laws) substance, tbh. ;)

Thing Fish
30-08-2011, 16:18
I listened to it twice last night and quite enjoyed it. Not sure I'd buy it though. Reminded me of a few early Vangelis albums I have.

sparrow
30-08-2011, 16:29
TD are my fave act of all time Rubycon is timeless and although I prefer Phaedra ..The con is one of THE best em albums ever made ..not everybody can see it for what it is. It isn't so much composed or played by the three guys it's more of a sculpture in sound. A work of art so to speak..when the mood takes you you can lose yourself in this album as with the predecesor Phaedra. TD these days are maybe no longer innovative but Edgar Froes is IMO one of the best composers in synth music. A lot of folks dismiss the last 10 - 20 years as being rubbish but to me TD never really lost their magic.

Welder
30-08-2011, 16:45
Listening to a Vinyl rip on reel to reel.
Hmm, what can I say.

Erm, its clever right enough. I’ve played both parts twice over the day and not once did I feel I wanted to sit back and really listen to what was going on. I guess there may be something in the comments that a bit of chemical assistance helps the appreciation. Unfortunately all I’ve got is coffee :eyebrows:
Okay, I think this is my problem with Tangerine Dream and this type of electronica in general; there are no real instruments playing and I think for me that’s quite important in music and particularly so if the music isn’t beat driven. If I wanted to listen to relaxing background music I would probably choose something classical.
Not for me this one. Its not that it isn’t good at what it is; I just don’t like what it is.

Tim
30-08-2011, 17:05
Well I have just finished a listen and I plonked myself down on the sofa and put the headphones on to enjoy it. Not too dissimilar to Phaedra, which I have loved since the first time I heard it upon release. Quite ground-breaking in those days. I'm very familiar with Phaedra, but not so much Rubycon and I particularly liked the starting sequence of Part II, which reminded me a lot of 2001 a Space Odyssey.

It will be going on again as I have just ordered it from Amazon, only £1.76 so a steal. I don't think I would need anymore TD, as these two are sufficient and my only criticism would be I didn't think it was long enough, I could have done with another 30 minutes!

4 from me :)

keiths
30-08-2011, 17:15
Rubycon is timeless and although I prefer Phaedra ..The con is one of THE best em albums ever made ..not everybody can see it for what it is. It isn't so much composed or played by the three guys it's more of a sculpture in sound.

I think it's difficult to appreciate it in isolation. You really need to hear it in context with what went before and what came after to realise that this album was the bridge between the earlier, more free-form electronic music and the sequencer-driven style that would typify the 'Berlin School' sound.

I find it fascinating to compare the output of Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze during this period (TD's Phaedra/Rubycon/Ricochet with Schulze's Blackdance/Picture Music/Timewind) - an exercise that shows just how pivital Rubycon was to the development of this extraordinary musical style.

Themis
30-08-2011, 17:16
I think that Phaedra, Rubicon, Stratosfear are the three best TD albums.

MartinT
30-08-2011, 17:41
I've just listened to it again. For me, the central section of Pt. 1 is what TD do so well, ethereal emotions weaving around a solid rhythm, all of it ebbing and flowing. Pt. 2 has more than a touch of Ligeti's Requiem to it, with the same feeling of 'into the unknown' in the vocals underpinned by throbbing synths. I prefer it to Phaedra as having more substance and definitely being more memorable. Hardly anyone has mentioned Ricochet, which is my absolute favourite TD and incorporates much of Rubycon's feel if not exactly the same musical content. 4 stars.

keiths
30-08-2011, 17:57
Hardly anyone has mentioned Ricochet, which is my absolute favourite TD and incorporates much of Rubycon's feel if not exactly the same musical content. 4 stars.

For quite a while, Ricochet was my very favourite TD album too, and remains high up on my list of favourites, but nowadays I prefer the way the tracks on Rubycon develop as 'musical sculptures'. I feel Ricochet has some brilliant tunes, but seems somewhat rushed with the individual themes not being given time to develop properly. A consequence of it being a live album maybe? (And I hate the removal of the two hand claps at the beginning of 'Part 2' on the 1995 'Definitive Edition' CD :steam:)

keiths
30-08-2011, 18:23
Okay, I think this is my problem with Tangerine Dream and this type of electronica in general; there are no real instruments playing and I think for me that’s quite important in music and particularly so if the music isn’t beat driven.
...
Not for me this one. Its not that it isn’t good at what it is; I just don’t like what it is.

Thanks for the comments John. I realise that this won't be everyone's cup of tea.

Regarding the lack of 'real' instruments, post-war, German contemporary music was struggling to find it's own identity. Wanting to distance themselves from the music of their parents and not wanting to imitate the UK and USA music scene, musicians there were quicker to adopt electronic instruments and the heavy electronic processing of the sounds of 'normal' rock instrumentation to forge their own sound. There are some real instruments on Rubycon - guitar, gongs, electric piano and 'prepared' piano, but they are well-hidden :)

Maybe you could try a couple of other TD albums sometime - 'Ricochet' (1975) and 'Statosfear' (1976) - which as well as being more rhythmic than Rubycon, have a little more in the way of obvious piano and guitar etc.

The Grand Wazoo
30-08-2011, 18:39
Hmmm - this was interesting for me! Though not necessary solely from the point of view of the content of the album - I listened to the album twice this evening, on two different turntables and it told me quite a lot about the turntables.

I've owned a copy of this album for a while now - a slightly crackly in places first pressing - though I couldn't profess to knowing it particularly well. I went to see the band in the early 80's and quite enjoyed the gig but never really got into their recordings.
The only other TD album I own is Phaedra, which I probably know slightly better, though I have mostly listened to it while going to sleep! - and by that, I really don't mean I find it boring.

Anyway, I quite enjoyed the playing of it this evening & I think I prefer this to Phaedra. I preferred Pt. 1 to Pt. 2, finding parts of the latter a bit too much like the soundtrack of some dodgy vintage horror film. The middle section of Pt. 1 reminded me of 'Meddle' - kind of a melding of 'One of These Days' and 'Echoes'. This was reinforced by my daughter saying: "This is quite interesting, very atmospheric - it's making me want to listen to Pink Floyd" (That's my girl!).

It's not the sort of album I'd listen to a lot, as I probably need to be in a particular type of mood to want to hear it, but I'm glad I own it. Thanks to this thread, I'll certainly be playing it more often now.

We're playing Meddle now!


NB - Ref. the two turntables in case you're interested:
With the Goldring/Decca turntable I felt that it's one of those albums where the gain needs to be set just so in order to fully appreciate it - good volume is required otherwise it seems lacking in body a little.
Then I stuck it on the Gyro/Zeta/Koetsu - blimey, that's more like it! It seemed like it was a completely different recording & everyone present (3 of us) felt it was much better for the change. The Gyro maybe gave it a more organic quality - which is perhaps exactly the opposite to what the performers intended!

Welder
30-08-2011, 19:34
@ Keith.

Well, a bit embarrassing actually Keith :o
I didn’t have Rubycon in file or CD format, although I do have Phaedra which I have just played and quite enjoyed.
Soooo, I borrowed a taped copy in a bit of a rush this morning and I’ve just found out what the guy used to play and rip with :doh:
I think I’ll see if I can borrow a “decent” copy at some point and have another listen.
I think this may be a bit of a problem with Album Club in general. Spotify is a great means of hearing music one may not have, but it’s not ideal for serious listening imo; the difference on my kit at least is very noticeable :(

griffo104
31-08-2011, 10:08
I really don't get this sort of music, probably why I became such a metal head back in the day.

I'm going to try an have a borrow of a mate's CD and give this a proper listen though as my tastes have certainly diversified over the last few years so will be interesting to listen to this sort of music fresh again.

DSJR
31-08-2011, 10:23
John (sparrow) and the great BigMoog himself know where I am on this :lol:

The MIGHTY Rubycon as well as Phaedra, have an interesting back story to them. This wonderful album is a "compilation" of 30 hours or more of session recordings and this way of blending different themes is one of Edgar Froese's greatest strengths in my opinion. Phaedra was genius out of accident, as the big series 3 Moog went out of tune between rehearsal and final take and thus the "sequencer" rhythms were born I understand.

Rubycon for me is more carefully planned and "spliced together," the whole basically defining this "Berlin School" era. I was very lucky to see the Baumann/Franke/Froese trio in Aylesbury in October 1975 and the distant memories of this concert (gig is too crude a name for it) still resonate with me. By this time, a more extended and memorised sequencer pattern could be performed and part 2 of the "live" compilation "Ricochet" features this sequence more or less as I heard it live (Ricochet 2 was largely culled from a Croydon concert I believe).

Wonderful stuff - and this band changed my life forwever - ask hifi dave or Alex, some "Berlin School" EM is usually inflicted on them each time we get together.

P.S. If any of you fellas like this, try some "Redshift" from the late 90's> "Ether" is good and can be downloaded in FLAC form for eleven quid each here -

http://www.downloadplatform.com/directory.php?artist=81&title=Redshift

John
31-08-2011, 11:15
I am sorry I have to be the odd one out on this I tried to get into this but I never really enjoyed this type of music, its almost like listening to New Age music Sorry folks not for me

DSJR
31-08-2011, 13:51
It's fine, no worries...

In my case, back then I didn't drink alcohol, have never smoked anything, let alone wacky baccy and found Phaedra the ultimate "trip" for me, such was the impact it had. I'd always liked electronically derived "tonalities" and I suppose the original Delia Derbishire realised (and best IMO) Dr Who theme was the one that strted it, along with the innovative "music" from the early 60's puppet series "Space Patrol." The closing titles music from "UFO" (Barry Gray) sort of took it along a bit and Pink Floyd's wonderful track "Echoes" took it further, along with some of the German offerings (Cluster) that John Peel used to play back then. Hearing my first "serious" HiFi system (Lenco 75/Armstrong 626 and JBL's) back in Easter '74 and Phaedra in particular, really blew my mind.

By the time Rubycon came out, I had my own little system. My first GL75/M75-EJ (bought from the system above when the owner changed to a Techie SL1300/V15 III), Lustraphone LP100 amp (I DESPERATELY want another, someone, please.....) and Audiomaster Image 2's (I think they were by then). I played this record for the first time in total darkness and fell passionately in love with the music instantly. Wonderful stuff "for those obliged to space" ;))

Tim
31-08-2011, 13:58
I played this record for the first time in total darkness and fell passionately in love with the music instantly.
That was my first experience with Phaedra Dave and I had never heard anything like it before - magical and a trip without substances, but I have never needed them anyway.

griffo104
05-09-2011, 09:08
Well I managed to get this off a friend and have a listen over the weekend. really not my thing at all and I struggled to get to the end of it. I think, for me, it just sounds so dated and seems so removed from the human element, something I've always disliked electronic music for.

Ironically two related things happened over the weekend, first I watched Near Dark which I recorded as part of Film 4's Frightfest season and Tangerine Dream did the soundtrack for this. Again the whole film seems so dated but it summed up the way I felt about listening to them, as if you need something visual to go along with it.

The other related item was finding I had a double CD set of Klaus Shulze and Lisa Gerrard, and album called Farscape. I knew Klaus Shulze reminded me of some album I had. The reason I struggled to place the name as I don't think I've ever listened to this album all the way through either. Anyhow having a bit of an electronic Sunday afternoon I found the album and slipped it on. Got about halfway through the first cd before taking it off. I just really don't get this sort of electronic music.

I can enjoy noisey stuff like Pan-sonic or Front 242, or even moog type stuff from Add N to (X) but his stuff just seems more like soundscapes than music, if that makes any sense.

keiths
05-09-2011, 11:06
Alex has asked for a conclusion post, so here goes...

First of all, many thanks to all those who gave “Rubycon” a try and for posting their comments and /or voting. I actually thought twice about choosing this as I thought not many people would like it, however I was pleasantly surprised with the reception it got with an average "score" of 3.6 stars and some good, critical comments.

As you probably realise by now, this album (along with Tangerine Dream's previous release - “Phaedra”) provided me with a kind of musical epiphany back in 1975 and defined the type of music I would listen to almost exclusively for the best part of a decade. At the time it sounded to me like the future (now it sounds both ancient and modern – if that makes any sense?) and non-electronic music seemed old-fashioned by comparison. Nowadays, my musical tastes are much wider and am more able to appreciate this era of electronic music for what it was rather than the “be all and end all” that it appeared to be at the time.

John's (Welder) post intrigued me where he cited the lack of “real” instruments as a reason he wasn't too keen. I disagree as I feel that the analogue synth, organ and mellotron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mellotron) sounds of this era to be just a valid musically as any other amplified instruments. Later Tangerine Dream (see “Further Listening”) sometimes added more in the way of 'conventional' instrumentation to the synth-sequencer-organ-mellotron mix including guitar (both electric and acoustic), piano, flute, saxophone, voice and drums.

Further Listening

All of the Tangerine Dream albums recorded for Virgin between 1974 and 1983 are worth a listen. The stand-out ones for me are:

Phaedra (1974) Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/album/7KRXWeJYBkyUmwOFTayiQk
Richochet (1975) Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/album/6iPUDn0rAVYuojEyEU0VJP
Stratosfear (1976) Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/album/3gwpouV58Wxl0kd5OIT8m7
Encore (1977) Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/album/5o9bgXcvxXs5eMjF177LLe
Force Majeure (1979) Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/album/6NGGfMRPtvshivFJWwSjza
Tangram (1980) Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/album/6aHeeKVHp0mIPrhKPAbnyf
Exit (1981) Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/album/4IhZlOlEsgfHqaUs1zcrPI

Similar in feel to Rubycon are the Edgar Froese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Froese) solo albums recorded around the same time:

Aqua (1974) Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/album/53HKgtgBcAKkBvnIJYBpx7
Epsilon In Malaysian Pale (1975) (Not on Spotify) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4I597QB5A

Klaus Schulze (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Schulze) was a briefly member of Tangerine Dream and appears on their debut album “Electronic Meditation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Meditation)” (1969). After leaving TD, he embarked on a solo career. His albums recorded around the time of Rubycon are all well worth hearing, but none are on Spotify:

Picture Music (1975) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXMrT2Ciab4
Timewind (1975) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wVp3entqjQ
Moondawn (1976) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN9hHeS13Hc

Other artists worth a listen include:

Ashra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashra_(band)) – Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/artist/4qzIpmopZ2KVodpmw7uJKe
Michael Hoenig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hoenig) – Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/artist/2I70Kyiy6kcoBNpIsHBgOK

and for a more up-to-date version of “Berlin School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_School_of_electronic_music)”:

Redshift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift_(music)) - Spotify: http://open.spotify.com/artist/5k9kE5eTwBfqlhvIqKUOML

Alex_UK
05-09-2011, 13:29
Superb summary, thanks Keith. A great week in Album Club. :)

Rare Bird
05-09-2011, 13:44
Whats up with Klaus Schulze 'Irrlicht', 'Cyborg' & 'Blackdance' :scratch:

keiths
05-09-2011, 13:59
Whats up with Klaus Schulze 'Irrlicht', 'Cyborg' & 'Blackdance' :scratch:
Nothing at all André - I chose the three I did as they are closer in style to Rubycon than his first 3. Same reason I didn't mention the early TD albums Alpha Centauri, Zeit, or Atem and recommended Ashra rather than Ash Ra Tempel.

DSJR
05-09-2011, 17:08
Rubycon has piano, (sampled) flute and voices too. No human element indeed :scratch: :peace:

Klaus Schulze - more greatness or sleep-inducing muzak depending on tastes. Mirage is for me, Crystal Lake especially :)

keiths
05-09-2011, 17:12
Mirage is for me, Crystal Lake especially :)
I love Mirage too - but I was trying to avoid listing his entire discography ;)

DSJR
05-09-2011, 17:52
Anyone who doesn't get on with Rubycon will be ending it all, given 25 minutes per side of KS. Of the early ones, Picture Music is a favourite, but I kind of lost it after Audentity, as I did TeeDee after the awful (for me) Rockoon. I do like KS's Kontinuum and Moonlake though..

ursus262
09-09-2011, 20:03
I've just ordered the original vinyl version of this, so I await it with bated breath :)

Audioman
14-09-2011, 13:50
Bit late but my ebay purchase of this has arrived and in need of a good clean. Will report back on this soon hoping it is not spoilt by crackly vinyl.

Audioman
15-09-2011, 10:38
Listened to half on vinyl and though clean looking had to contend with surface noise and clicks over what is delicate music. I found it rather boring. Sort of new age background music suited to tv documentaries. Gave it 3 stars.

ursus262
15-09-2011, 19:18
Well, I have been very lucky. I managed to get a first pressing on the original Virgin label from 1975 and it had hardly been played. And it was only £9.99 off ebay!

Well, I like it very much. I love the way they seem to paint a picture with sound. It's very ambient and I like the way the album takes you on a journey.

For its time, it was very much ahead of its time. It was well recorded and played, with great musicianship evident throughout. Sure, there isn't much in the way of melody, but it was an entertaining and relaxing listen.

I really enjoyed this album, and will listen to it regularly. Thank you for introducing me to it. :)

Reid Malenfant
15-09-2011, 19:29
Still listening to it right now, track 2 most of the way through...

I must admit i have quite a bit of TDs output though this isn't one i know as well as say Phaedra which I guess may well be about my favourite? :scratch:

There are similarities but early sections on the first track kind of invoked memories of the OST to Forbidden Planet. I like this kind of stuff though my tastes these days whilst still mostly electronic are a little darker :eyebrows:

Never the less i'm giving this a good solid 4 out of 5. Now ended by the way.... I could quite happily listen to similar stuff most of the day & not get bored or wish to change to some other genre, though i guess this also depends on what kind of mood i was in when i started. As i'm feeling not too bad of late i tend to be rather happier than i have been so this may well have some bearing on how many times i'd leave it on repeat :lol:

Anyway, back to normal... I still enjoyed coming back to listen to this CD!

Bring on the darkness :cool:

keiths
15-09-2011, 19:36
Thank you for introducing me to it. :)

You're very welcome, Dave.

sparrow
15-09-2011, 21:04
No one has mentioned the SACD..it's very good IMO and probably the best CD version out there..I still think the recent vinyl reissue is by far the best sound of all versions out there. Strange in th fact it's taken from the 1995 remasters but manages to sound better than the CD versions..

DSJR
16-09-2011, 08:24
Depends on how the cut has been eq'd I think, as those Manor recordings must have been mixed on screaming monitors, they're often so dull (Oldfield, Gong and Phaedra especially).

The 1995 digital mastering for CD and SA-CD was done by an expert though...

This kind of music won't grab you by the balls and FORCE you to listen. One has to have the "obliged to space" frame of mind and just let the sonics ebb and flow over you, as the phased waves do at the wonderful end of the sequencing section of pt 2. It's playing in my mind as I type this and the spinal shivers of total bliss come surging forth - oooh missus :eyebrows:

Jac Hawk
25-09-2011, 21:11
Sorry Keith, this just isn't my cuppa tea, my mate came round as i started listening to side 2, he's well into them and thought i had "seen the light" as he put it, we listened to side 2 together, but to be honest i couldn't wait till it was finished, maybe if I'd been drunk or high it would have made more sense, but i was stone cold sober :( if we all like the same stuff, the world would be a boring place to live in wouldn't it.

DSJR
26-09-2011, 16:07
The Pink Floyd comparison has been made before I think, but I must admit to listening to "Echoes" from their Meddle album and now see exactly where parts of Rubycon were influenced from. In fact Echoes was one of those formative tracks that got me into "EM" in the first place...

If anyone reading this wants to hear Moog-related wizardry of the highest order and finds "Swiched On Bach" just too cheesy (shame if you do), then try to hear some "Tonto's Expanding Headband." two wonderful 70's albums of greatness from one of the biggest analogue synths made at that time - an awesome machine when wielded properly - it's still running too I understand, in all its cabinets :stalks:

http://www.tontostudio.com/

http://www.tontosexpandingheadband.com/


P.S. Riversong is a masterpiece and I don't think a vocoder was used either...

Barry
25-10-2011, 19:50
The Pink Floyd comparison has been made before I think, but I must admit to listening to "Echoes" from their Meddle album and now see exactly where parts of Rubycon were influenced from. In fact Echoes was one of those formative tracks that got me into "EM" in the first place...

If anyone reading this wants to hear Moog-related wizardry of the highest order and finds "Switched On Bach" just too cheesy (shame if you do), then try to hear some "Tonto's Expanding Headband." two wonderful 70's albums of greatness from one of the biggest analogue synths made at that time - an awesome machine when wielded properly - it's still running too I understand, in all its cabinets :stalks:

http://www.tontostudio.com/

http://www.tontosexpandingheadband.com/


P.S. Riversong is a masterpiece and I don't think a vocoder was used either...

I used to have both those LPs. They didn't last long! :eyebrows:

Barry
25-10-2012, 23:30
Just realised I didn't vote on this one. Well better late than never - as a strong TD fan, I'd place it alongside Pheadra so 5/5.